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Youngevity Scam?

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It is a seemingly never-ending battle to help prevent consumers from being scammed by MLM schemes. Today we look examine another one of them: Youngevity.

I had a reader ask me about Youngevity the other day. We'll call him Spike. He wrote:

"Have you done any research on the Youngevity products & Dr. Joel Wallach? I have been taking their Tangy Tangerine product as well as the EFA's & Osteo FX over the last 3 months. I read your article on Lifevantage and was very impressed by the depth of your study. Just wanted to see if you have uncovered anything with Youngevity."

I had never heard of Youngevity. However, having looked into other MLM scams, I know one of the first places to look at is the cost of the product. Why? Because MLMs often require their distributors buy product to participate in the opportunity. The artificially expensive product pays the company hefty margins, and distributors often pay the surcharge month after month as a fee for what they feel will make them money.

When I looked into the prices of Youngevity's products, it had all the tell-tale signs of an MLM scam.

The Value of Tangy Tangerine

The first product that Spike mentioned was Tangy Tangerine, a 32 ounce drink that is highly packed with vitamins and minerals. At a cost of around $40 for a 30 day supply it is upwards of $1.25 per serving. I did a quick search on Amazon and found Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men Multivitamins (180-pack) , which was similarly highly packed with vitamins and minerals. I didn't compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close, more in some areas, less in others. The price on Amazon for Opti-Men is 10 cents a pill and 3 pills are in a serving, for a total of 30 cents a serving. So instead of paying $40 a month for Tangy Tangerine, you could be paying about $9-10 a month. Some of the reviews said Opti-Men was really powerful and there's really no need to take three capsules, so you might find that you can save even more money by taking just one or two. (Side Note: The Opti-Men was the first thing I saw, I bet there's an equivalent women's version that is similar.)

Price per serving: $0.30 vs $1.25 in favor of Opti-Men. That's a savings of a little more than 75%.

With Tangy Tangerine, another concern I have is with the marketing of this product. On the bottle it says "with 115 vegetables and fruits." There are no fruit and vegetables in 500mg of powder and certainly not 115. Anyone buying into this claim should take a bottle to their doctor or medical professional (who isn't affiliated with the MLM) and ask them if you can stop eating vegetables because you are getting 115 from Tangy Tangerine. I image they'll find that humorous.

The Value of EPA Plus

Next up is EPA Plus. This supplement is like fish oil, but it is a blend of healthy oils like flaxseed. On the web I found it available for around $30 for 90 capsules, which is equivalent to 90 servings. That's 30 cents a serving. So what's the Amazon near equivalent? It's Omega 3-6-9 Gold. It has the mix of different sources of good fats as well. It is $13 for 180 capsules which turns out to be 7 cents a serving... and at 1200mg you are getting more product. Update: 12/30/2013: Looks like that product is currently unavailable from Amazon. However, I spent another 30 seconds coming up with a good alternative from Amazon:
NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9 1000mg. It is around $15 for 250 capsules... 6 cents per capsule. If you use Amazon's Subscribe and Save, you can knock that down another 20% for a price of around $12.50.

Price per serving: $0.06 vs $0.30 in favor of NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9. That's 1/5th the price or 80% off of the Youngevity price... and it gets even cheaper with Subscribe and Save.

The Value of Osteo Plus

At this point, I got a little tired of searching, so I literally took the first thing that I found on Amazon and it seemed close to the Osteo Plus blend. Specifically, I am referring to: Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. I had to look at another website to get the nutritional information on this product as it wasn't nicely available on Amazon. The nutritional information shows a more diverse blend than Youngevity's Osteo Plus, but with lower amounts of calcium and vitamin D. These are the big things you'd be looking for in a osteo complex, so it looks like a bad fit. However, keep in mind that the Opti-Men product above had additional calcium and vitamin D, plus there's the nutrients that you get from your regular diet. That should make up any difference. OsteoPrime Plus is priced at $17 for 120 capsules. However with 4 capsules per serving that is a 30-day supply on Amazon. The price for Youngevity's Osteo Plus online that I saw was $41 also for a 32-day supply.

Price per serving: $0.57 vs. $1.28 in favor of Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. This time the savings are closer to 55%.

I should mention that these don't seem to be random products that Spike picked out. They all seem to be part of what is calls the Youngevity Healthy Start package. This $112 product has the 30-day supply of all three Youngevity products. The price of this is combination on this site and this site is $112 (as of 4/27/2012). The later makes it seem like it a value as it normally costs $159.00. At $112, that's $3.73 a day. The price of the three items that I listed above: 94 cents a day. That's a savings of between 67-75%... or between $689.85 and $1018.35 a year.

The typical case for MLM is that the quality of the MLM product is better than any you compare it to. Clearly if both products were identical Honda Accords you wouldn't pay more. This puts the pressure on the MLM to prove that its product is significantly better. This is where they hire a couple of medical professionals as scientific experts, but the reality is that they are paid spokesmen. What you really need to know when it comes to vitamins is that there's a non-profit organization that you can trust: the United States Pharmacopeia. You'll find these products have USP Verified Dietary Supplement Mark on them. I've talked to a lot of pharmacists and they all say that this is the place to start and end your search for supplement quality... however many admitted to me that standards are generally so good they don't look for it themselves and just buy the cheapest generic brand.

Absorption of Youngevity and other Vitamins

Some commenters have tried to ignore this point about the USP. When they do, they often say that cheap vitamins aren't absorbed well or that liquid absorbs better. It's worth noting that there are no studies on Youngevity's products absorption. If Youngevity's products do absorb better than its competitors and this is indeed an important factor, why is there zero analysis on it? Another thing to keep in mind is that when researchers and scientists are researching vitamins, they often don't choose liquid sources or even state the brand of vitamins at all. Why would scientists/researchers time and again choose to go through all the trouble of conducting studies with products that are known to be poor? The answer is that they aren't using poor products.

Consumer Reports addresses the absorption of liquid vs. solid vitamins:

"Q. My wife pays a premium for liquid vitamin and mineral supplements, which are supposedly better absorbed by the body. Are they worth the cost? —D.P., Sacramento, Calif.

A. Probably not, unless your wife has trouble swallowing solid supplements. In theory, liquid supplements should be better absorbed by the stomach since they’re already dissolved. But there has been little research to substantiate that idea. And at least some evidence has shown no meaningful difference."

I'd add that even if she has trouble swallowing solid supplements, there's amazing technology called pill crushing that has existed for years which solves this.

When it comes to Youngevity it is worth keeping in mind the "Can I Pay Less for Something of Similar Value?" game.

However, perhaps the biggest thing to consider is that recent research is showing that supplements may do more harm than good.

It simply doesn't make any sense to spend more money on something that doesn't seem to work in the first place.

Update (12/16/2013): The well-respected medical journal Annals of Internal Medicine says, "Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements".

This CNN article covered the situation well:

“The (vitamin and supplement) industry is based on anecdote, people saying ‘I take this, and it makes me feel better,’ said Dr. Edgar Miller, professor of medicine and epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and co-author of the editorial.’ It’s perpetuated. But when you put it to the test, there’s no evidence of benefit in the long term. It can’t prevent mortality, stroke or heart attack’.”

Many of the smartest people in the world have done the research on hundreds and thousands of people and haven't anything that helps, and even found that it could be dangerous.

"Doctor" Joel Wallach

It's worth noting that Youngevity is associated with "Doctor" Joel Wallach. Who is he? According to Skepdic he is a veterinarian and a naturopath.

The American Cancer Society sums up what you need to know about Naturopathy: "Available scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease, since virtually no studies on naturopathy as a whole have been published."

[Update: When I wrote the article it seemed like a safe bet that most people would consider one of the largest non-profits/charity with the goal of rid the world of cancer reputable, but I've received a few comments from people, probably Youngevity distributors, that are to the effect of "This guy believes the American Cancer Society, now I know I can't trust him."

There are numerous other reputable sources that make the point that naturopathy is quackery, not supported by the proven scientific method. There's a list of six accredited Naturopathic schools (at the time of this update) and not one of them is associated with any university you have likely heard of. If you are one of the few odd people who are against the American Cancer Society, the point about naturopathy being quackery is well established by other reputalbe institutions.]

I love animals and my aunt is a veterinarian, but I'm not taking advice for my own health from a veterinarian and person who bases their treatments on things that haven't been scientifically proven. There are hundreds medical doctors in a few square miles from where I live that are hundreds of times more qualified that Wallach. I'd put nutritionists as more qualified when it comes to supplementation as well.

I put "Doctor" in quote when referring to Wallach, because he's a doctor in the sense that my wife, who has a doctorate in pharmacy (she's a pharmacist) is a doctor. It's a fair title for her education, but she doesn't use the doctor title, nor does anyone else.

That skepdic article on Wallach is very illuminating as it goes into various antics that he's done over the years. It is clear that he's misrepresenting himself and making up lies (woman in China who lived to be 250?")

Does Youngevity Work?

Sorry, but Youngevity joins the long list of MLM products with distributors claiming there are miracle health cures. Why do people make such claims? If you read nothing else today, read this: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not "Work"

About Clemson's Institute of Nutraceutical Research (INR) (Update: 3/01/2013)

A few commenters (mostly distributors) have asked about where I stand on the "Clemson study" on Youngevity products.

Reading the Clemson press release on the relationship with Youngevity is interesting. Here's a key sentence: "[Clemson's Institute of Nutraceutical Research] goals are to develop greater confidence in product quality, effectiveness and enhance consumer demand for quality nutraceutical products." (emphasis on "enhance consumer demand" is my own)

You know what another word for "enhancing consumer demand" is? Marketing. In other words Clemson's goal is to market nutraceutical products, and Youngevity pays them money for that. Ever hear of the rich person whose kid isn't all that bright, but he got into the top college anyway? The school just happened to get a nice library donated by rich family. The parallels here are obvious.

On February 5th, 2013, I noted that the website for Clemson's Institute of Nutraceutical Research is not functional. Some may argue that I have the wrong URL there, but if I do, Google does too from this screenshot. As of this update, March 1, 2013, the website is still not functional.

In addition to the website being down for nearly a month a Google search for Clemson Institute of Nutraceutical Research gives almost all results for Youngevity. I couldn't find any other research it has done aside from Youngevity, which is an obvious red flag.

Lastly as Commenter Mark Harris pointed out, Clemson's INR is not listed on Clemson's list of over 100 institutes and research centers (as of 12/30/2013).

With the website being down for months, lack of information about other studies, and Clemson's own failure to recognize it, is that it is hard to take the institute, and hence this research, seriously.

With that said, I feel it is important to address the Clemson "research" itself. With that in mind, let's take a look at the press release from AL International. One of the first things that pops of the page is that they classify the work as clinical research. However, it is quite clear from the study that this is laboratory research done on test tubes and not clinical research done on humans.

When you mix something up that basic, it's hard to have any trust in the rest of the "study."

Much of the press release focused on product safety. While we should all be concerned about safety, vitamins are generally considered safe, so such research is not necessary. If you were to read a review of a $200,000 car saying that it got people from point A to point B without exploding, you would probably be suspicious why they are focusing on something that even cheap cars should be able to do. You don't buy a Ferrari because it doesn't spontaneously explode, you buy it because it supposed to deliver an advantage over other cars.

The other part of the article focused on kill cancer cells in a test tube (i.e. cell cultures). On the surface, this seems like compelling information. However, seven years ago we found acai killed cancer cells in a test tube. Not only acai, but according to this USDA article a number of foods kill cancer in test tubes. Heck, even pot slows cancer in tubes.

The important thing to take away here is that lots of things, including vitamins kill cancer in test tubes. Clemson could have saved a lot of time if they weren't in the business of marketing Youngevity by looking at the existing research. This US News article:

Recent clinical trials, for example, suggest that supplements of single nutrients like vitamins B, C, and E and the mineral selenium do not, as once thought, prevent chronic or age-related diseases including prostate and other kinds of cancer. Some substances, like green tea and ginger, seem to have potential in preventing or helping to treat cancer, but they may also actually interfere with treatment or have other serious side effects. Meantime, countless substances that kill or slow the growth of cancer cells in a test tube have not shown that same success in human beings.

So Youngevity, and it's various ingredients are added to the list of "countless substances that kill or slow growth of cancer cells in a test tube", but "have not shown the same success in human beings.

Here's a thought from a pharmacist that I know and trust: "Bleach kills cancer cells in a test tube... I'm not going to drink it any time soon." She might have been joking with the last part, but the point is clear: We are not test tubes. Few test tubes read this article... and they aren't concerned about cancer. Many more humans read this article and I presume they are more interested in the fact that the research does not show success for them.

Even Youngevity's own brochure on the study comes with a disclaimer: “Clemson University only supports the statistical data and analysis provided here. Clemson University does not support, endorse, or sponsor Youngevity or any of its products. Clemson University and its researchers are not affiliated in any way
with Youngevity Essential Life Sciences.”

As commenter Vogel put it: "There you have it. According to Youngevity, Clemson’s only contribution to this misleading research was the statistical analysis of the data. They did not generate the data itself."

However, I'd take it a step further and suggest that the brochure itself is a violation of the FDA rules for marketing supplements. The FDA has sent this this warning letter to Nature's Pearl. It specifically states:

"When scientific publications are used commercially by the seller of a product to promote the product to consumers, such publications may become evidence of the product's intended use. For example, under 21 CFR 101.93(g)(2)(iv)(C), a citation of a publication or reference in the labeling of a product is considered a claim about disease treatment or prevention if the citation refers to a disease use, and if, in the context of the labeling as a whole, the citation implies treatment or prevention of a disease."

This brochure with "anti-cancer" prominently in the title and throughout the brochure appears to be evidence of the product's intended use. The small box at the end of the brochure reading "These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease" should tell you everything you need to know about Youngevity and cancer in clear and in no uncertain terms.

Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.

Bottom Line: Clemson duplicated research that was already well known to be irrelevant in an attempt to provide marketing for Youngevity. They didn't do any clinical trials (tests in humans) of the product, presumably because they knew in advance it wouldn't have given the positive result that Youngevity paid for.

When Youngevity puts out a press release saying, "The INR is a national leader in nutritional research and one of the most highly regarded organizations in the field of phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals" it is clear that it is complete bovine excrement.

Youngevity and Depleted Soil

It seems that Youngevity is coaching its distributors to say that today's soil is depleted of vitamins and minerals in order to create demand for their product. It sounds plausible until you look at little deeper.

Behind the deception there is a nugget of truth, which is what they use to sell you down this erroneous line of thinking. There is some credible information that some soil is deficient of vitamins according to this Scientific American article that cites a few sources. It is far from conclusive. That's problem #1 with the argument, but for sake of argument we'll pretend it is conclusive. There are a lot more problems.

A Youngevity distributor pitching this has made the bad inference that because we might be getting less than before we aren't getting enough. If McDonalds cut the calories of its Double Quarter Pounder you probably wouldn't be looking to add more to make up for "a deficiency." It's quite possible we were getting more than we needed in the past and still get enough (which I will cover in a minute). That's problem #2.

Next, there's sufficient research that supplements are a waste of money. That's analysis of dozens of different studies on hundreds of thousands of people. Conspiracy theorists will say that article is biased or created by a "sickness industry", but these people have no answer for why the same doctors and scientists put their loved through chemotherapy if vitamins and minerals actually worked. Getting back to the article, the conclusion was:

"The large body of accumulated evidence has important public health and clinical implications. Evidence is sufficient to advise against routine supplementation, and we should translate null and negative findings into action. The message is simple: Most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death, their use is not justified, and they should be avoided. This message is especially true for the general population with no clear evidence of micronutrient deficiencies, who represent most supplement users in the United States and in other countries.... we believe that the case is closed— supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful."

I've added emphasis to three important parts. Supplements are not advised... problem #3. There is no evidence of micronutrient deficiencies in the United States and in other countries. This supports the point I made above in problem #2... we get enough. In fact, the people who are looking into Youngevity are probably those who are health-conscious and thus more likely to have a healthy diet that is devoid of deficiencies.

The final point the article makes is that supplements might even be harmful. That's problem #4. You not only don't appear to be helping yourself, but you might even be hurting yourself.

I've heard people try to discount that article and the science. They do everything can (like the "sickness industry" I mentioned above). I can't understand how these people believe in some science and not others. They'll take the whole thing about depleted soil as a given even though there's far less analysis of that and throw out all the science about vitamins and minerals not being helpful. It's as if they want to believe in addition, but not multiplication. It simply doesn't make any sense to pick and choose arbitrarily.

Now let's get to problem #5. Back in the Scientific American article they presented a solution to the depleted soil problem. It wasn't supplements. "... foregoing pesticides and fertilizers in favor of organic growing methods is good for the soil, the produce and its consumers. Those who want to get the most nutritious fruits and vegetables should buy regularly from local organic farmers."

And then there is problem #6 to this argument. It doesn't give anyone a reason to buy Youngevity's overpriced supplements (using the above analysis).

Vogel brings up another 7 more problems with depleted soil in this comment. Specifically:

  1. the main study cited, "did not look at any measurements of nutrient levels in soil"
  2. "the authors did not conclude that that the apparent decline in nutrient levels was attributable to soil depletion... that a difference in the strains being cultivated, not soil depletion, was the probable cause of the apparent decline in nutrient levels"
  3. "Some of the nutrients that apparently declined were only marginally lower, which is not likely to be clinically relevant"
  4. an apple from the 1950s might have higher levels of alar and DDT and other banned pesticides
  5. improvements in transportation allow for better access to a variety of fruits than in the 1950s.
  6. the diet in the 1950s was not very good ("potatoes and iceberg lettuce" cited), there is much more nutritional awareness today.
  7. "... diseases due to dietary nutritional deficiencies (like scurvy, rickets, beri beri, pellagra, etc.) were not uncommon in the 50s but have now been virtually eradicated in the U.S. due to improvements in standard of living and diet."

About Youngevity's Parent Company

One thing that came out of the Clemson research that I initially overlooked (I felt it was more important to focus on the product), is that the company is owned by AL International, a publicly traded company that is a penny stock. On January 25th, when the Clemson "research" press release came out, the stock was trading at 16.5 cents a share (I didn't realize the stock market took ha'pennies). The total value of the company was 65 million dollars, less than some athletes sign for over 2-3 years. Stock prices vary and after the Clemson marketing, Youngevity got the desired result, a significant bump in stock price as penny stocks can do at times. (Note: they can drop just as quickly and are not very good investments.)

I tried to give a fair review to Youngevity based on its products in general, but as I've found in every MLM that I've looked at, the organization usually is centered around a few charlatans.

Update: I was pointed towards this great first person account with Youngevity. It is extremely long and detailed, but well worth your time if you are considering buying these products or getting into the business. The author actually became a nutritionist because Youngevity's Wallach was slandering doctors making them seem untrustworthy all why claiming that their "glacial milk" was the answer. Here are some great quotes:

"So rather than just believing the bunch of facts and figures that were thrown at me by my lecturers, I approached the claims that Wallach had made by asking 'where is the evidence?' What I discovered was that Wallach's claims were not only inaccurate but they were nothing more than very clever lies, designed to lull vulnerable people into a false sense of security in order to relieve them of their money."

"I had also come across a handful of people from the church who had been approached by AL distributors claiming to cure them of their health conditions, many of them who had received no benefit but were too shy or ashamed to let their story be heard. Funnily enough, it was only those who for whatever reason, believed that they had been cured, whose testimonials were given at meetings and printed on the plethora of AL's advertising material."

"... I should simply stand up and ask Wallach why he was misleading people and to question him in front of the audience (of several hundred people) and the cameras. I did of course, which resulted in my swift removal (including being physically dragged out and thrown down a flight of stairs)..."

The story is truly amazing and should make it very clear that it best to avoid Youngevity and its marketing tactics that aren't properly supported by any real evidence.

Last updated on October 13, 2015.

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1,285 Responses to “Youngevity Scam?”

  1. Dan says:

    Thank you Vogel for your ‘expert’ and ‘wise’ reply. Let me ask you this: have you ever needed and tried these products yourself? Have you ever been in a desperate situation like I am now struggling to get my f**king knees better? I don’t know and you don’t know if these are fairy tales as you put it. I have a choice to make between synthetic drugs peddled by my MD and these products from Youngevity. For now I choose the latter. I guess I will find our soon enough if they are worthless concoctions. If they are, then as you stated, I will be out $852. But that is my money I will lose, no one else’s. I made the decision to spend it based on their advertising (I don’t know if it’s false yet). Until you’ve been in my shoes, I don’t think you can honestly assess my situation. Thank you for your input though.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I wouldn’t say that your MD is peddling any drugs. It isn’t like a car salesman trying to sell you a car. Why do you use the word “synthetic” to describe medicine as if it is different than Youngevity’s products. It’s not like Youngevity is selling you an organic apple… the products are man-made as well.

      Dan, it is your money to lose. However, I think Vogel’s point is that because you’ve made this poor decision that’s been shown to be ineffective and a waste of money (see this journal article), your opinion shouldn’t carry any weight with readers. Readers would be better served by knowledgeable people who cite their sources rather than someone in a desperate situation making a poor, seemingly uninformed, decision.

  2. Anna Shandoz says:

    Dan, please come to us, let us know if the money you spent is worth while, at the end of the day, if you desperate then what can you do?, as it was not working for me..so it will be nice to know from other who really spend their money and have a good result….is there not any other company who sale more cost effective that is not MLM such as nature Best or something?

  3. Vogel says:

    Dan said: “Thank you Vogel for your ‘expert’ and ‘wise’ reply.”

    I’d say you’re welcome were it not for your facetious use of quotation marks. Why not just say what you really mean instead of being passive aggressive?

    Dan said: “Let me ask you this: have you ever needed and tried these products yourself?”

    I have no need for stupidly-expensive-pyramid-scheme-bait-supplements-for-dummies; nor do you; nor does anyone.

    Dan said: “Have you ever been in a desperate situation like I am now struggling to get my f**king knees better?”

    No. You surely must be the first person ever to go through osteoarthritis in the history of humankind.

    Desperation isn’t a reasonable excuse for abandoning good judgment and commonsense.

    Dan said: “I don’t know and you don’t know if these are fairy tales as you put it.”

    Really? I think we both know full well.

    Dan said: “I have a choice to make between synthetic drugs peddled by my MD and these products from Youngevity.”

    That would be a Hobson’s choice to be sure — if that were truly the choice you’re facing, but it’s not. First of all, there aren’t a lot of good drug options for osteoarthritis. Calcium supplements and bisphosphonates can slow bone loss in early-stage OA, but based on your description, you’re too far gone for that to be effective. As an adult, you can’t suddenly grow back lost or damaged bone/cartilage in the knees, so that just leaves symptomatic treatment (e.g., OTC anti-inflammatory and pain killers) as an option, and surgery. Youngevity doesn’t make any products that are FDA-approved, or backed by any evidence at all, for the treatment of severe OA (or the associated inflammation/pain).

    There are myriad of alternative choices for worthless interventions that don’t do anything for OA or OA symptoms. So Youngevity products aren’t a better choice for treating chronic degenerative OA than say, eating Wonder Bread or tying a yellow string around your wrist, or holding your breath — or just burning money with a blowtorch.

    Your choice isn’t between medical/surgical options vs Youngevity. It is medical/surgical options vs essentially nothing (or a myriad of useless options that do nothing).

    Dan said: “For now I choose the latter. I guess I will find our soon enough if they are worthless concoctions.”

    An indefensible choice — especially when the blowtorch option is so much more expedient. We already know that the products are medically worthless, particularly in the context of your condition.

    Dan said: “If they are, then as you stated, I will be out $852.”

    Yup! And that’s a lot of money to burn.

    Dan said: “But that is my money I will lose, no one else’s. I made the decision to spend it based on their advertising (I don’t know if it’s false yet). Until you’ve been in my shoes, I don’t think you can honestly assess my situation.”

    I find this whole scenario implausible to say the least. There’s no evidence that you have chronic OA or that you’re going to pony up any money for the products. Anonymous claims aren’t compelling, particularly not when they pertain to products sold by the lying idiots associated with this company. It’s difficult to fathom that someone would simply ignore all the damning evidence and decide to waste nearly a thousand dollars on these BS products for a condition that they could not possibly affect (and contrary to your claim, Youngevity doesn’t advertise their supplements for chronic degenerative OA of the knees, and if they did it would be illegal). Besides, what about all the other brands of scammy MLM supplements that make fairy tale miracle-cure claims and are no more or less compelling than Youngevity? You’d have to blow a grand on each one.

    I hope for your sake that you’re just another trolling distributor masquerading as “Joe Consumer”, because if not, it’s just a case of astonishingly poor judgement — on a level befitting a Darwin Award.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards

  4. Brian says:

    The products that you listed worked for my family and myself. I have spent the last eight years trying to help my wife with diabetes. We went the full mainstream medicine route with zero long term results. We then tried all the supplements and the vitamins we would hear all the natural doctors talk about and nothing would work. I wasn’t getting healthier following the doctors advice and neither was my wife. So when I did hear about the youngevity product I tried it expecting it to just be another supplement that I really didn’t have any expectations for. I decided to give it a fair trial. After 8 months on the product here is my family results.

    Products: Tangy Tangerine at 2 scoops a day mixed with one scoop osteo fx powder in a water bottle and taken throught the day. (this is key, otherwise you will just pee out the B and C vitamins in one main dose). You have to break this up just like you would getting nutrients from food or it won’t work. Just like you don’t sit down and eat a whole plate of broccoli in the morning and expect it to be good for the day. Then I added the Gluco gel at just 3 caps a day.

    Me: lost 70 lbs. (No additional exercise)
    Back problems that I have had for 15 years have disappeared.
    lots of energy, I feel better than I did in high school.

    Wife: lost 50 lbs. (no additional Exercise)
    wife cut gluten on advice of doctor Wallach all allergies disappearing now.
    Blood sugar is down to the 100s now and much easier to control with insulin.

    Dad: Shoulder pain that 3 different doctors told him he would need a replacement for: GONE

    It is important to note that I am a skeptic at heart so I went into this not listening to all the hype. I looked at the ingredients, deemed them to be worth an acceptable risk and took them to see if there was a result. When I noticed all the changes I dove in and learned everything I could about the testimonials and what the product was claiming to do.
    I have seen this help so many people that I did buy the one time $25 distributor pack so that I could get the products at a discount and they have not put any additional pressure on me to sell anything. I think it is very unfair of you guys to claim that your MD and the rest of mainstream medicine never try to sell you anything. Have you turned on a TV lately and seen the 25 commercials an hour for medication that has a 30 second reel of side effects? Most of which bill your insurance hundreds if not thousands of dollars? I work for a major healthcare/insurance company and let me let you in on a little secret… They are here to make money, and they can’t make money if you are well! I know the products are expensive but when I take into account all the individual products I was buying before and the trips to the store with fuel and wear and tear on my vehicles it is far cheaper with the youngevity product. I understand You are trying to help and protect people from scams but, to be honest this blog against youngevity when so many more people have seen great result than those that don’t smacks greatly of being just another troll.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Brian,

      You seem to be giving an anonymous testimonial. How can we verify your results? How can be sure they can be attributed to Youngevity products?

      I’m not aware of any significant vitamin and mineral supplement leading to significant weight loss. Trust me… if it worked everyone would do it.

      You should never “dive into” testimonials for MLM products, but you quickly learn that people will claim that there are great ones for MonaVie’s “flavored water” (the inventor’s words) and Asea’s expensive salt water (paraphrased from a prominent doctor).

      The testimonials are common in any health product sold by MLM, so you’d be wise to ignore them.

      My doctor isn’t putting those commercials on TV. And the 30 second reel of side effects is a legal disclaimer, just like the fine print of almost everything you buy today.

      And obviously pharmaceutical companies are in business to make money, but they are required to show efficacy in controlled trials and do not resort to pyramid selling. Knowing that they need to show their effectiveness and that they generally market their products legally gives me much more confidence in their products.

    • Levi says:

      I just helped a lady get on the other side of restless leg syndrome and heartburn that she’s had for over 5 years. Simply taking 2 Osteo FXs per month, she felt a huge difference in Restless leg syndrome in 2 days and no signs of it after 2 weeks. She got off heartburn medication after 3 days and hasn’t had a single heartburn episode for 2 months.

      If you have ever had Restless Legs or heartburn, the pain is unmistakable. The recovery was measurable and obviously associated with the calcium supplement. I’ve seen exact same results with 6 other people. Heartburn gone in 2 to 4 days… you dont have to buy the stuff, but i can’t deny the results that I’ve seen in myself and others.

  5. Vogel says:

    Brian said: “The products that you listed worked for my family and myself. I have spent the last eight years trying to help my wife with diabetes…lost 70 lbs. (No additional exercise)…Back problems that I have had for 15 years have disappeared…Wife: lost 50 lbs. (no additional Exercise)…Blood sugar is down to the 100s now and much easier to control with insulin. Dad: Shoulder pain that 3 different doctors told him he would need a replacement for: GONE.”

    BS! Youngevity products don’t make people lose weight. Weight loss is a byproduct of reducing caloric intake (diet) or increasing caloric consumption (exercise). Assuming your claim to have lost weight without additional exercise wasn’t outright BS, then it had to have been due to reduced caloric consumption. And if maladies like diabetes improved, assuming that claim wasn’t outright BS too, then it was a secondary consequence of weight loss and nothing whatsoever to do with the money you allegedly wasted on Youngevity products.

    BTW, it’s illegal for distributors to advertise the product the way you did, and it’s a given that you’re
    a distributor.

    Brian said: “I work for a major healthcare/insurance company and let me let you in on a little secret… They are here to make money, and they can’t make money if you are well!”

    Wow! You are a complete idiot! Health insurance companies don’t even want to insure people who are unwell. They lose money when people are sick and claims have to be paid out. Anyone in the insurance business would know this. Ergo, you’re a liar to boot.

  6. Vogel says:

    Levi said: “I just helped a lady get on the other side of restless leg syndrome and heartburn that she’s had for over 5 years. Simply taking 2 Osteo FXs per month, she felt a huge difference in Restless leg syndrome in 2 days and no signs of it after 2 weeks. She got off heartburn medication after 3 days and hasn’t had a single heartburn episode for 2 months…I’ve seen exact same results with 6 other people. Heartburn gone in 2 to 4 days… you dont have to buy the stuff, but i can’t deny the results that I’ve seen in myself and others.”

    I can. Your claims are pure BS. You should stop trying to play doctor with inert pyramid scheme placebos and refrain from making any further illegal/bogus marketing claims. Such claims are offensive and deserve to be reported to the FDA.
    http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm

  7. Vogel says:

    Levi said: “The link is for reporting illegal sales of supplements. They aren’t illegal and I don’t sell anything…”

    They are illegal when marketed as treatments for medical conditions like restless leg syndrome, heartburn, etc. I don’t believe when you say that you aren’t a seller, but no matter anyway since you didn’t leave any identifying information. So the next best thing is to just do a Google search and find one of the many other Youngevity distributors that are illegally marketing the products as drugs and report them to the FDA. Every stupid baseless medical treatment claim, like the kind you made, should earn a report to the FDA. It’s easy, anonymous, and a civic duty.
    http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm#sthash.rqIirb4M.dpuf

    Levi said: “I don’t play doctor, but these things spread by word of mouth when they work for someone.”

    Sure sounds to me like you’re playing doctor. These products don’t “work”, and despite that, they are spread by desperate exploitative parasites whoring for a pyramid scheme.

  8. Barry Mason says:

    I don’t support either side just keep an open mind but if you say that vitamins and minerals suppliments are a waste of money then why do pharmaceutical companies put magnesium stearate in some of there products, it’s a compound containing two stearic acids and magnesium. Stearic acid is a saturated fatty acid found in many foods, including animal and vegetable fats and oils.
    There are other products out there now having higher success rates on cancer then the usual chemo and radiation treatments but not be supported by the big pharmaceutical companies because there is either not a not profit in it or they can’t pattern it.this is one of many https://youtu.be/AYiouIQoXgk
    Significantly higher success rate and all they could do is try to close him down. If there are other alternative methods of curing anything then why don’t the pharmaceutical companies get on board with these alternative treatments to help people.
    NOT ENOUGH MONEY. That’s all they are interested in.

    • Lazy Man says:

      If you don’t think vitamins and minerals are a waste of money, please direct your criticism towards the sources I cite. I believe those sources to be very reputable, especially the scientific journal one. I think they could give you a better answer to your question than I can.

      I spent about 45 seconds looking up magnesium stearate and I found this well-cited research in Wikipedia, “Magnesium stearate is often used as an anti-adherent in the manufacture of medical tablets, capsules and powders. In this regard, the substance is also useful, because it has lubricating properties, preventing ingredients from sticking to manufacturing equipment during the compression of chemical powders into solid tablets; magnesium stearate is the most commonly used lubricant for tablets. Magnesium stearate can also be used efficiently in dry coating processes.”

      Please don’t scream, “Wikipedia isn’t a trustworthy source!” unless you can show that all the well-cited sources are also wrong… and include WHY they are wrong.

      At the very least we should be able to conclude that the magnesium isn’t included in pharmaceutical companies’ products for efficacy reasons. That’s important, because you seem to imply that magnesium stearate was included because it helps with the medical condition.

      The video that you included is from a video produced by Burzynski. If you step away from the biased, inflammatory, and anecdotal information in the video, you can do a little research you can find much better information. For example, the video starts with grainy video from 1996. The simple math says that’s 20 years ago. It shows a complaint about chemotherapy rather than trying to show a better way. That’s always a bad sign, especially because no one says, “Hey, I’d love to get some chemotherapy today!”

      Let’s fast-forward to 2016, shall we? Here’s an article Newsweek published in February, Cancer ‘Visionary’ Stanislaw Burzynski Stands Trial for Unprecedented Medical Malfeasance.

      It’s the not the only source… there were so many legitimate sources complaining about him years ago that I wrote about the Burzynski Cancer Clinic Scam.

      I’m not a fan of silencing free speech, but this seems to me like yelling “Fire!” in crowded theaters in order to boost your sales of fire extinguishers.

      Be careful about suggesting that Burzynski has a higher success rate. Let’s take that discussion we can have on my Burzynski article since it isn’t related Youngevity.

  9. Vogel says:

    Barry Mason said: “I don’t support either side just keep an open mind but if you say that vitamins and minerals suppliments (sic) are a waste of money then why do pharmaceutical companies put magnesium stearate in some of there (sic) products.”

    Why would you open with a question that has nothing to do with the topic at hand? Magnesium stearate is an excipient widely used in the supplement industry; but so what?

    Barry Mason said: “There are other products out there now having higher success rates on cancer then (sic) the usual chemo and radiation treatments but not be supported by the big pharmaceutical companies because there is either not a not (sic) profit in it or they can’t pattern (sic) it.”

    Oh boy, here we go. So you bypass the subject at hand (Youngevity) to focus on baseless claims of secret cancer cures and dumb conspiracy theory BS? Do you not realize that any company that could market a cure for cancer would make hundreds of billions of dollars, if not trillions? For every company that would stand to lose from such a development (i.e., by seeing their older less effective cancer drugs become obsolete), another company would stand to make a fortune. Do you also not realize that if a company had a cancer cure and decided to suppress it, they would have to ensure the silence of hundreds if not thousands of employees and scientists, who would in effect be sentencing their loved ones and themselves to an avoidable death? Such a scenario is an impossibility, obviously.

    Barry Mason said: “…this is one of many https://youtu.be/AYiouIQoXgk Significantly higher success rate and all they could do is try to close him down.”

    You can’t seriously believe that a quack like Burzynski (the piss-peptide charlatan) has a secret cure for cancer. He has been repeatedly sanctioned because he is a dangerous parasite, not because he has any unique knowledge about cancer or how to treat it. To make matters worse, you suggested above that Pharma companies suppress certain alleged cancer cures in part because they can’t be patented (and therefore profited from), yet Burzynski patented his fake piss-based treatment (which does nothing but drain money from desperate patients and their families) and he has profited from it enormously (and completely undeservedly).
    http://www.google.com/patents/US6013278

    There is no logic or truth to any of the things you are saying, and worst of all, it has nothing to do with Youngevity. In addition to your comment being vapid and paranoid, it couldn’t be more irrelevant.

    Barry Mason said: “If there are other alternative methods of curing anything then why don’t the pharmaceutical companies get on board with these alternative treatments to help people.”

    Because there are no “alternative methods” of curing cancer. If there existed an “alternative” method (whatever that’s supposed to mean) that was proven to cure cancer, it would instantly cease to be “alternative” and would simply be called “medicine”; and if such a thing existed, Pharma companies would be on board in a heartbeat.

  10. A says:

    You are full of crap.don’t talk about it if you don’t even know what it is.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I thought I showed that I significantly know what it is. If not, surely it’s well covered in the 1140+ comments, right?

  11. gbear says:

    The ‘thrust’ of this article is about MLM’s being ‘scams’ & specifically Youngevity as one of many. The saying “a fool & his money” applies to MLM’s in general. Wallach is a great marketeer for his company. The FDA, BBB, & other pertinent agencies have purvue here.So far, what he’s doing is legal. So, buyer beware of anything at all times which means do your homework,otherwise,be ‘scammed’. I’m very familiar with Wallach from his early start & found him narcissistic, mixing fact with fiction,like a Tom Brown novel. We do need foods which contain nutrients to live. Net search ,’Joel Wallach fraud’ for history & beware, some are distributor fronts.

  12. Michael Mendez says:

    Hi,
    Just wanted to say. I was introduced to the products and started to buy and set up an autoship for 9 months. I did it as a favor to my brother, then one day my mother calls me and tells me that she is in alot of pain that she can not sleep at night. so you can imagine the heart wrenching conversation. I though to myself maybe that crap that my brother is selling me can help. turn out she was suffering osteoporosis and vertigo. seeing that I had the stuff stocked in my bathroom cabinet I sent some of the products I had and a couple of more that DR. Wallach and Dr. Glidden suggested to use. in about one months time she was doing a lot better. today she is at 90% better. she was on several drugs that were doing more harm than good now she is off of them. look I don’t know much about MLM but seeing how it has turned my mothers health around it is a blessing that I found youngevity. since then I have introduced youngevity to about 42 people 3 of which are my family members. one sis for 15 yrs suffering from Fybromyalga now after 3 months is 100% better. another sister had C.O.P.D. is off her drugs and doing 100% better.My brother who had 3 heart attacks after the age 35 unable to run overexert himself nor unable to have sex with his wife in fear of a heart attack, is now running 5 miles a day working out and I imagine performing well with his wife. sure i still purchase these products and became a member. just like everything to get the most out of a business you have to work at it. but as far as my family they come first. when I saw and heard on the turn around with them. there is nothing more I like doing is to share the benefits of taking the products. Truly do what Dr Wallach and DR. Glidden says to do for your health and that of your family members. they and you will get better.

  13. Steve says:

    It’s very simple. We need 90 essential nutrients. Omit one and it’s like omitting an ingredient when baking a cake.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I haven’t seen the 90 essential nutrients mentioned outside of Youngevity. Where’s your non-Youngevity scientific source of the 90?

      Also, you can omit some ingredients in cakes and they’ll be fine… just like people.

      As this unbiased scientific journal says, “Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements.”

      You are right, that journal makes it very simple.

  14. Vogel says:

    Steve said: “It’s very simple. We need 90 essential nutrients. Omit one and it’s like omitting an ingredient when baking a cake.”

    We don’t need 90 essential nutrients, and what we are talking about is nothing at all liking baking a cake — I detest such worthless analogies.

    Funny, one of your rival MLMs (Yevo) claims that there are only 43 essential nutrients. What a dilemma. Which idiotic snake oil pyramid scheme to believe?
    https://www.yevo43.com

  15. Raymond Natasha says:

    Must read! my names are RAYMOND NATASHA !! from US austin texas for a year now i have been living with this virus called DIABETES All thanks to Dr ENATO CURING MY DIABETES, i do not have much to say, but with all my life i will for ever be grateful to him and God Almighty for using Dr ENATO to reach me when i thought it is all over, today i am a happy man after the medical doctor have confirmed my status Negative,i have never in my life believed that DIABETES could be cure by any herbal medicine. so i want to use this medium to reach other persons who have this disease by testifying the wonderful herbs and power of Dr ENATO that all is not lost yet, try and contact him [Editor’s note: Contact information removed.]

    • Lazy Man says:

      I feel like uniformed people like Raymond Natasha are the Youngevity natural audience.

      Diabetes is not a virus. Anyone who actually has diabetes should know that. If not, we should probably blame “Dr ENATO” for spreading false information to his patients, right?

      There’s so much fundamentally wrong there that I don’t think there’s anything salvageable from Raymond’s comment.

    • B A T says:

      ” WHAT IS IT GOT TO DO WITH YOUNGEVITY AND DR WALLACH PRODUCT??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

  16. B A T says:

    By the way..Giora..would you mind to ak some one who you explained here have been cured with Youngevity, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THEM, the rational for doing this is just I really like to know what youngevity did not work on me? I wonder why/ I can give my email address and like to speak to any one who had been cured by Dr wallach’s product please (would be VERY GREATFUL)

    • Tarrie says:

      BAT,
      I can put you in touch with individuals that have resolved their issues with the Youngevity products.

  17. Suzanne Young says:

    Hello B A T. If you’d like some Youngevity testimonies, directly from the horses’ mouths, please feel free to email me and I’d be more than happy to share their contacts for you so you can chat with them.

  18. Anna Shandoz says:

    Dear Tariie please send me your email then I can email you – I have tried youngevity products in the past – It did not help me at all – so talking to some one who are distributor and able to answer me trully would be a great help

  19. Dree says:

    I treat my high blood pressure with minerals to avoid the bad side affects of drugs, since I’ve learned most high blood pressure is caused by mineral deficiency.
    I should say I learned this from Dr. Wallach and decided to test with good quality minerals I already had available, not youngivity products To my amazement I was able to reduce my meds and am now drug and high blood pressure free. In order for this to work you must get the formula and dosage right. What I like about Dr. Wallachs products is that all that is done for you for optimum results.
    Most people don’t know or take the time to calculate proper dosage. For example clicking on your link and calculating what I would need using opti-min tab,
    considering available calcium in calcium carbonate per 100mg (that is allowing that 100 mg is citrate form which is unlikely but I’m giving them the bebefit of the doubt) I would need 15 60 tab bottles a month. So at 180 count would cost me 240.00 at list price per month, and that is just for the calcium required. I can get the healthy start pak of 90 essenials for kess than have that and meet all mineral needs.
    That’s alot cheaper than the mineralsI had available
    and dought on my own and alot cheaper than your recommendation as well. To my research youngivity seems to be an excellent value if you are serious about treating with vitamins and minerals. I am not affiliated with this company but I plan on buying the products as I cannot find a better value.
    Regards!

  20. Michael Mendez says:

    The Calcium Lie II: What Your Doctor Still Doesn’t Know Kindle Edition
    by Robert Thompson (Author), Kathleen Barnes (Author)

    take a look at this book regarding Calcium

  21. Anna says:

    Hi there, its amazing you stated that way, would you explain it to me, which other company you bought your calcium for? Does not Youngevity have MLM association, so there will be charge on those, as the distributor need to get paid?

  22. Michael Mendez (Youngevity Distributor) says:

    Hi Ann
    Meleluca, Amway and Herbal life all three my Father and mother tried but did little for there health. Youngevity moves their product in MLM forum. But my once I started her on the products she has had a complete turnaround. Sure there a little costly but the results are outstanding. I shared it with my sister How had COPD and another sister how Suffers with Fybromialga. both are doing 100% better. the only reason I bring this up is because Lazy Man and Money was pretty negitive about the company but I am a firm believer of you get what you paid for and If the company has opened in 22 countries I think that has a lot to say as well. they might be a little higher priced but my family has benefited greatly. I will do anything for my family and try anything and if the product works Im willing to pay the price. there is a process for everything once you follow that process you should expect a good outcome.

  23. Michael Mendez says:

    Just like a Democrat if you do not like the conversation you delete it not cool.

    [Editor’s Note: All comments are held in moderation until I get a chance to review them. I’m not going to get political, but read the previous 1100+ comments to see that I approve all kinds of conversations.]

  24. Lazy Man says:

    I just want to make it clear that if you are trying to exchange personal contact information here, I will delete it.

    This is intended to be an open forum for discussion about Youngevity, not a matchmaker for people to take discussion elsewhere. It isn’t useful for the discussion here for people to have side conversations.

  25. Anna says:

    Hi Giora, I ould like to get Seth phone number, I will call him, as howmany times I have read abouot youngevity how fantastic the rpducts are, but I had used them, but both products did not giving any cure or different, I am still in pain (fybormyalgi), I ended up having operation 3 months ago, as the advice given to me..just did not work, on the other hand I asked youngevities distributor such as:”may i return the products if its not working?, they said that ”AS LONG AS THE PRODUCT STILL SEALED UNBROKEN PACKAGE”..HOW ON EARTH I CAN GET REFUND THEN..SURELY THE BOTTLE/S HAVE TO BE OPENED TO TRY IT…?, EVEN BEFORE I HEARD DR WALLACH 10 BAD FOOD THEORY” I already doing it not only 10 but 12 bad food that I never eaten…hence I must say ..I have to believe the scientist/s which product/s have had several clinical trials..I am sure if what Dr Wallach theory are true, wouldn’t all the rich people in state will buy his products and stopped the cancer..cardio vascular diseases, lots of them would like to leave longer..and money is not an obstacle for them..hence they still die (Steve Job, J.Collins) and who is going to be next? – please ..plesae if you can..I would buy it of you ..if you will guarantee a refund..I promise you I can get my health care professional to back up my condition..so you can see its legitimate. In the UK there are a few organic supplements products shops..they guarantee ..if it is do not work..even if the bottle empty they will give the money back to the customers..they sale everything..but not like 90 nutrient where there lots in in..each product only content 3 / 4 ingredients..but they are all organic..the products help tiny bit..but do not cure. Hence youngevity slogan also stated :22 that you have not been verified by FDA, it does not cure nor treat any disease…I would like to have a chat with some one who have fibromyalgia or scitica and now cure ..what product do they buy from youngevity..then I will buy of you ..I will try it ..and if it is not working then you should provide me a refund, just like your question to ”lazy man” what he is afraid of???, my question to you as well: if the product is guarantee working..what are you afraid of to promise that guarantee for customer satisfaction? THANK YOU..I am not stand by Lazy Man, I just normal person who are suffering badly and need to get better..so would like to try ..but make sure that any one guarantee it works..???, at least in medical world (Doctors) pharmaceutical commpanies, they are s o honest that first thing patient should try to change their life style (eating healthy food, exercise, stop smoking, drinking excessably) if that is not works, then they help by giving prescribtion, also letting the patients know that medicine is only to treat (HENCE THEY ALWAYS CALLED ”THE MANAGEMENT TREATMENT OF:
    1. copd 2. diabetes 3.cardio vascular diseases, none of the MD /doctors ever promise that the medication is going to cure their disease..and also, they asked us to read the leaflets on the package of the medication they issued to us..so that the patients understand..the pro and contra..and mostly the side effect of prolong the use of medication is not very good. So, I jsut being neutral here..

  26. Vogel says:

    Ha! Youngevity made the mistake of stepping out of the shadowy realm of pyramid schemes onto the public stage at last night’s RNC convention, and as is always the case when MLMs do this, the company is being excoriated by the press and characterized as a shady multilevel marketing company that sells useless supplements. I’m OD-ing on schadenfreude today.
    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/20/12243002/michelle-van-etten-rnc-republican-convention-youngevity-trump

  27. Vogel says:

    Van Etten’s speech was such an incoherent mess that she might make (or lead) the top 10 list for GOP worst party convention speaker of all time. Watch it — I dare you! It is guaranteed to make you squirm uncomfortably in your seat.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/michelle-van-etten-trump-is-ultimate-ringmaster/2016/07/20/ac3b1bec-4ec0-11e6-bf27-405106836f96_video.html

    The reaction from oline media has been brutal. http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/07/20/a_multi_level_marketer_speaks_at_the_republican_convention.html
    http://wonkette.com/604459/who-was-that-caped-circus-lady-what-stoled-our-hearts-michelle-van-etten-thats-who

    There are a couple of key details that were missed in the reporting, however. The most notable was that her brother-in-law Steven Van Etten received a 10-year prison sentence on various fraud and pyramid scheme-related charges pertaining to his MLM business (International Heritage), purchase of Success magazine, and his scammy investment company (Mayflower Holdings). He ended up becoming a prison snitch.
    http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/11157466/
    http://pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/MLMProsecution2.html
    https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/946293/0000946293-97-000007.txt
    https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/nce/press/2004/2004-Oct-29.html
    http://www.law360.com/articles/90200/fund-boss-conviction-restored-in-15m-fraud-case
    https://www.justice.gov/archive/usao/nce/press/2005/2005-Feb-22.html
    https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-60089254.html

    According to her LinkedIn CV, Michelle Van Etten worked for International Heritage from 2001 to 2013, and joined Youngevity in 2013 at the rank of Senior Vice Chairman Marketing Director, the third highest rank in the company. Distributors do not typically claw their way up the ranks to achieve these senior levels in MLMs; rather they are often granted secret backdoor sweetheart deals referred to in the industry as break insertions – where a newcomer is plugged high up in the pyramid from the start. This is often the case when a distributor comes over from a rival MLM pyramid scheme (usually when it is collapsing) and brings their downline with them. The break insertion is the company’s way of buying distributors (who are also the ultimate end users in these schemes). Nonetheless, these senior distributors are put on stage at distributor motivation meetings to lie to the audience and tell them “if you just work hard like I do, you too can climb all the way to the top!” It’s disgustingly deceptive.

    When I heard the name Heritage International, it reminded me that a couple of years ago Youngevity had stated in their SEC filings that had bought up a bunch of small obscure ailing MLMs to expand their distributor numbers and sales revenue. One of those companies was called Heritage Makers, Inc., which Youngevity acquired in August 2013, a mere 3 months after Michelle’s CV claims that she moved from International Heritage to Youngevity. Youngevity’s SEC filings curiously omit all details about the principals behind Heritage Makers, but it’s possible that International Heritage and Heritage Makers are related entities and that Michelle’s break insertion may have arisen from this deal. Youngevity’s SEC filings prove that the principals (who, unlike in the case of Heritage Makers, were listed by name) of the other MLM companies that were among the batch of acquisitions did in fact receive sweetheart break insertion deals.
    http://sec.edgar-online.com/youngevity-international-inc/s-1-securities-registration-statement/2014/10/03/section15.aspx
    http://www.getfilings.com/sec-filings/131113/Youngevity-International-Inc_10-Q/

    This brings us to the second important detail that went unreported by the press. Immediately prior to joining Youngevity, Van Etten was a distributor with the scammy MLM Visalus, which sued her for breaching the terms of her contract. As Visalus was going down in flames, a rival MLM by the name of Ocean Avenue was formed by some top-level defectors from Visalus, and Van Etten, while preparing her exit plan, was recruiting Visalus distributors to join Ocean Avenue. Referred to as “cross line recruiting”, this is virtually the only infraction that will ever get a distributor fired from an MLM (while illegally saying that the company’s products cure cancer results in a promotion).

    Whether or not it was due to the lawsuits, Ocean Avenue never got off the ground (and Visalus is now dying a slow death). However, the company, with Van Etten as a co-plaintiff, did file a counter suit against Visalus alleging entrapment. It appears the suits were eventually settled under undisclosed terms
    http://www.hansermarketingtips.com/ocean-avenue-v-visalus-a-tale-of-espionage-international-hackers-a-new-challenge-named-rico/

    It’s also likely that Van Etten brought over her downline from Visalus to Youngevity. Suspiciously, Van Etten omits both Visalus and Ocean Avenue altogether from her LinkedIn CV. Not surprising since both companies are now in the toilet and have left behind a trail of incriminating evidence.
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-van-etten-200572b

    Incidentally, Michelle is also getting a slice of the motivational seminar business from Youngevity, which is typical of these break insertion deals; i.e., part of the insider distributor’s compensation package includes part or all of the revenue from sales of these CDs.
    http://www.riverwalkmedia.com/YG15.html
    http://www.riverwalkmedia.com/YGL15.html

  28. Emily says:

    Just wanted to share my father started taking these supplements for his high blood pressure. He is a healthy guy. 70 years old and competes in triathlons. His blood pressure was so high his MD said he couldn’t exercise anymore till BP was down. My dad didn’t want to spend the rest of his life on meds. He tries this stuff. And in two weeks BP was back down to 120/90 due to the calcium deficiency.
    In addition to that he an close his fist all the way. And he says he can pee like a 20 year old.
    MD’s convince us, this is an old age problem.
    He’s 70.
    Neither none of us sell this product or intend to.
    We just find it interesting that he doesn’t have to be on statins the rest of his life.

  29. Vogel says:

    Yeah, BS Emily! Distributors chronically break the law by promoting these pyrmaid scheme supplements as miracle medicine. How many times do you think they can lie and cheat without straining the company’s credibility beyond the breaking point? Anonymous pseudo-testimonials serve no purpose but to add to the aura of scamminess that surrounds Youngevity.

  30. Judi says:

    Yes, I have MS and Youngevity aka Dr. Wallach said he could cure me with his supplements. I’ve spent thousands of dollars and my MS is worse. I called him on his live radio show and confronted him. He tried to tell me I’m not better because I’m not absorbing and to stay away from anyone including my husband and children who eat gluten, even though they don’t, we are 100% gluten free. I told him I’m broke, had to refinance my home and what does he say, buy more of his supplements! No, I’m done with this Youngevity crap! My husband is obsessed with Youngevity and our marriage is suffering because of it. Dr. Wallach wants to pull you away from everyone; telling you not to be around even family members who eat gluten, not to even hug them! I think Youngevity is a secret cult! They tell you what to eat, when to eat, take all your money and pull you away from anyone who tries to tell you to run the other way. Thank you for this article, I know now I’m getting completely scammed!! No more though, no more! I put everything on the line for his lies! Like I said I have MS and now it’s worse! He will lie, take all your money, pull you away from your family and guess what, you end up no better if worse like me!

  31. Vogel says:

    Wallach is a screwed-in-the-head evil little tyrannical conman, and yes, what they are running is a cult, wrapped inside a snakeoil scam, wrapped inside a pyramid scheme. The products, like Wallach’s medical knowledge and advice, are worse than worthless.

    I wish you the best with your MS and next husband. :)

  32. Totally anonymous says:

    Hi everyone,

    I have never consumed a Youngevity product, however I know about Wallach´s story and what caused his transformation from scientist trying to find answers in nature into another marketer dying for money.

    I will tell the people wondering why Youngevity supplements did not work for them whereas other people claim they do work.

    Extremely simple, every body has different levels of minerals and most importantly and thus different ability to produce chemical reactions required to function properly, therefore, if any Youngevity product has ever worked for anyone, it is simply because the minerals and its amounts were the right ones for those bodies, simply by coincidence. Taking supplements without prior analysis to find about body needs is therefore a wrong approach and the main reason why I don´t support companies like Youngevity, they don´t tell the truth because they know very well the same pill does not work for everyone.

    They have, however, good science behind their crappy sales strategy, is just that they hide the most important step to be taken in order to start reversing conditions.

    I don´t blame them for hiding this thought, there is just no way their business could have suceeded had they advertised openly “in order to use our products you need to work with a functional doctor and get hair-urine-blood tests done so mineral requirements could be stated”. No standard person would ever continue having interest, people want quick solutions that comes in form of a pill.

    Anyway, I have MS since 2010, I have never taken any drugs as recommended by the tons of neuros I have visited across these years.

    One good day I met someone at work. This person had a couple of chronic conditions that are also considered neuro-inflammatory, and he talked to me about a functional doctor that was truly helping him overcome these conditions.

    I contacted that guy and started working with him mainly on mineral balancing and heavy metal detox.

    I did the so-called three way test – Hair, blood and urine. This is required to get the most accurate numbers possible with the current technology, a blood test, which is the most common type of test every doctor use, is totally useless on its own to identify mineral levels in tissues.

    It turned out I had (and still do) massive levels of mercury and cadmiun on me, apart from several mineral deficiencies and unbalanced ratios.

    This opened a new world to me, “is it really possible chronic conditions are caused by toxicity and mineral deficiencies or is it just another scam?” I wondered.

    I started researching and contacting people with MS or any other chronic condition that had done such tests.

    Well, 100% of these people had both things, several impairments on mineral ratios and big heavy metals toxicity. Interesting.

    I started a protocol to slowly detox heavy metals, and also balance my minerals.

    I´m not going to tell you if this works or not, anyone with minimal knowledge of living organisms should have understood it by now, but the point of this post is, the body is made of minerals, and what Youngevity is selling you are nothing but minerals. Every medical condiction has its own specific mineral deficiency profile, these guys just sell you the minerals that are “commonly” known to be specific to your condition, however as I said above, never delivered in the right amounts.

    What do you think will happen if we dont give our body the minerals it needs to function as expected? Moreover, what do you think will happen if on top of this, we keep building a toxic environment by putting in heav metals which all around us? The answer is simple, chronic disease, and the cure? Detoxing and Getting the balance back into the body.

    Your doctor may or may not know about this, but he would be so deep inside the system that would not even bother wondering. Since 1st year of medical uni, they teach them “chronic conditions are environmental and genetic, they can´t be cured”. The biggest lie I have ever heard, and the evidence is all around us.

    Even if Youngevity could have gone mainstream working with clients properly (testing minerals and creating protocols specific to each individual), they would have been shut down very quickly by goverment as instructed by big pharmas.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Totally anonymous,

      I think I’ve covered Wallach’s story well in this article. If there’s something I missed, please let me know.

      Totally anonymous said, “I will tell the people wondering why Youngevity supplements did not work for them whereas other people claim they do work. Extremely simple, every body has different levels of minerals and most importantly and thus different ability to produce chemical reactions required to function properly, therefore, if any Youngevity product has ever worked for anyone, it is simply because the minerals and its amounts were the right ones for those bodies, simply by coincidence.”

      That’s simply not accurate. If that was the case, we wouldn’t be able to say that polio vaccines work at near ~100%. We wouldn’t be able to say that Viagra works for males at ~100% of the time.

      We could be stuck saying that M&M’s “do work”, because everyone’s metabolism is different. The truth is that there’s legitimate science behind that any more than people having different levels of minerals.

      The reason why people claim MLM health products (such as Youngevity and others) work, is because it MANY, MANY MLMs are BILLED AS MIRACLE CURES.

      Truth In Advertising showed that there are many seemingly health and income claim violations from distributors and brought it to the attention of Youngevity. The result, “President and CEO Dave Briskie admitted that the income claims violated company policies and would be taken down and that it was also removing or revising the health claims.”

      I think that’s all you need to need to know. Don’t belive the health claims, as Youngevity’s President seems to be admitting are violations.

      If Youngevity’s own President and CEO isn’t going to stand behind the claims, why would you believe them?

  33. Vogel says:

    Totally Oblivious said: “I will tell the people wondering why Youngevity supplements did not work for them whereas other people claim they do work. Extremely simple, every body has different levels of minerals”

    Yes, the answer is simple — that much is true – but it has nothing to do with the explanation you provided. People who claim that Youngevity supplements “work” are distributors who are straight up lying in an attempt to con people into buying the products and joining the pyramid, or who are naïve enough to delude themselves into believing that the products work, because they want to con people into buying the products and joining the pyramid.

    Totally Oblivious said: “They have, however, good science behind their crappy sales strategy,”

    That’s a demonstrably false assertion. They literally have no valid science behind their products whatsoever.

    Totally Oblivious said: “Anyway, I have MS since 2010, I have never taken any drugs as recommended by the tons of neuros I have visited across these years.”

    Seems odd, to say the least, that you would consult with “tons” of neuros over the years and then completely ignore their treatment recommendations. What a waste of time and resources.

    Totally Oblivious said: “One good day I met someone at work…he talked to me about a functional doctor that was truly helping him overcome these conditions…I contacted that guy and started working with him mainly on mineral balancing and heavy metal detox…It turned out I had (and still do) massive levels of mercury and cadmiun on me, apart from several mineral deficiencies and unbalanced ratios. This opened a new world to me, “is it really possible chronic conditions are caused by toxicity and mineral deficiencies or is it just another scam?”

    Sounds like you got scammed by a quack. Who is this alleged “functional doctor” and why did you not list their name? I would bet that you don’t have mercury/cadmium toxicity or mineral deficiencies. That sounds like the kind of shallow one-size-fits-all diagnosis of someone who isn’t trained in medicine.

    Totally Oblivious said: “Every medical condiction has its own specific mineral deficiency profile”

    That’s complete BS. What fool told you that?

    Totally Oblivious said: “Since 1st year of medical uni, they teach them “chronic conditions are environmental and genetic, they can´t be cured”. The biggest lie I have ever heard, and the evidence is all around us.”

    ROFL. BS! You’ve obviously never set foot anywhere near a medical school or, apparently, anyone who has attended one.

  34. Vogel says:

    Youngevity just announced that they acquired Nature’s Pearl, and MLM company that sells muscadine grape extract supplements.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/youngevity-international-announces-acquisition-natures-123000837.htmlrecent acquisition

    A quick Google search shows that Nature’s Pearl just got nailed in 2012 by the FDA for illegally marketing their products – twice!
    http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2012/ucm301639.htm
    http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/2012/ucm294673.htm

    It seems that Youngevity’s growth strategy is based on acquiring dismal shitty disreputable MLMs and absorbing their distributor bases. They have a string of similarly dismal acquisitions over the past couple of years including Livinity, Restart Your Life, Good Herbs. All of the companies have either been sanctioned by the FDA or were operated by principals who had serious run-ins with the law, like being sanctioned by the SEC, etc.

    The company is already suing Dave Pitcock, former owner of Livinity who made a sweetheart deal with YGYI to acquire his company, as well as a bunch of other distributors.
    https://www.businessforhome.org/2016/05/youngevity-vs-wakaya-perfection-law-suit-amended-complaint/

  35. Sard says:

    Youngevity aside I’m afraid that everything you have said gets cast to The Wayside because of your opinion that supplements do nothing and are worthless.

    Especially since I know from personal experience that that is wrong.

    On one issue alone the best that modern medicine and doctors could do for me was to leave me getting weaker from each bout of bronchitis that came 4 to 6 times a year.
    I have reached a point where deep inside I realized that I was dying. I simply could not survive many more bouts with bronchitis.

    That’s when I discovered through my reading, echinacea. A lot of people say that does nothing. They’re wrong. I am alive because of it. And I don’t get bronchitis anymore.

    Why don’t the studies show any Effectiveness for such things? My guess is because there’s no money in something you can’t patent.
    And Medicine it’s not immune to The Lure of following the money.

    Me, I go with what works.
    No matter how many other well-intentioned individuals poo poo it.

  36. Vogel says:

    Sard said: “Youngevity aside…”

    You are pushing aside the topic of this discussion so you can go on a rant about something entirely unrelated? You must have a social intelligence quotient of zero.

    Sard said: “I’m afraid that everything you have said gets cast to The Wayside because of your opinion that supplements do nothing and are worthless.”

    Ha! What a twit! You don’t get to dismiss the totality of his ironclad arguments with weak-sauce BS like that.

    Sard said: “That’s when I discovered through my reading, echinacea. A lot of people say that does nothing. They’re wrong. I am alive because of it. And I don’t get bronchitis anymore.”

    Except Echinacea doesn’t cure bronchitis (or anything else). You are simply delusional.

    Sard said: “My guess is because there’s no money in something you can’t patent.”

    That statement is a vivid demonstration of your ignorance. Supplements can be and often are patented. Monavie was patented and that was complete BS. LifeVantage patented Protandim and that was complete BS too. In fact, the worst era in the history of snakeoil medicine in the U.S. is known as The Patent Medicine Era” because all the bogus remedies these carnival hacks were selling were completely worthless and often dangerous BS, despite being patented.

  37. Randy Millsap says:

    I am fortunate lazy man to have not seen your article 20 years ago. I have no arthritis, outrun most parents of the kids I coach, as well as the kids. At 59 I can paint the markings – every yard, numbers and each 5 yard line in under 20 minutes. Yes, I take Tangy Tangerine daily.

  38. Mark says:

    Hey maaaan, I think your a Democrat Crime Syndicate Member. His research and products work for me like none other in the World . Because, there are no formulas like his or his research either.

  39. gbear says:

    I came here searching “Youngevity fraud/scam” because I’ve known Wallach’s early history of selling colloidal minerals which claimed smaller is better absorbed. Same selling non-science tactic for ionized water. I appreciate what I found by the author who supports with facts & science. I notice the word “cure” mentioned many times by commentors & as my physician daughter says,”there is no cure without a autopsy”.I find it very annoying that Wallach is highly supported by George Noory on the Coast radio program who frequently refers to Wallach as “doc”. Noory is a Youngevity user. Callers state their disease for which Wallach offers the remedy.This is prescribing without a license.He is a veterinarian & spent 1-year at a naturopath college which normally is a 4-yr program post ‘human’ pre-med. Thank you for this site.

  40. B2W says:

    Hi Mark, you must be youngevity distributor, I tried the products, it did not work for me?, if they are really working, why won’t they accepted refund if it does not work for others?, surely if you can guarantee the product really….really…really work, I will buy of you and PROMISE REFUND (30 days money back guarantee) I challenge you….!!!! and I do not like to take drug from pharmaceutical ..but the doctor/s, pharma at least never lie, they never stated that tablets WILL CURE..tablets/pills is only there to help maintaining the pain,but only temporary..the doctor/s always mention to READ THE LABEL ON THE DRUG…THERE ARE SIDE EFFECT ON IT, but the physician also ask for the patient to change their life style…the fact that 90% of patients keep taking the drugs but do not change their lifestyle how would they be cured?..but pharma and doctors never claim that its going to cure/treat..what they always said : THE MANAGEMENT TREATMENT OF…..(EITHER IT CARDIO VASCULAR DISEASE,HYPERTENSION..COPD ETC..ETC) JUST like youngevity porducts people have to change their lifetyle..buy following the rule of tomb: stop taking 12 bad food..?, so any YOUNGEVITY DISTRIBUTOR WOULD LIKE TO CHALLENGE ME..PLEASE I DARE YOU..AS LONG AS U REFUND IF THE PRODUCT DO NOT WORK…?????? THANKS FOR THIS PUBLICATION..AT LEAST NAIVE PEOPLE CAN BE HELPED…

    • Lazy Man says:

      You mean there are “potential” side effects on medicine, right? I can’t think of ever have received one of these side effects. None of my friends have ever mentioned it either. To the best of my knowledge this is a legal disclaimer which is required because medicine is much more highly regulated than supplements. People have reported side effects with supplements as well.

      It’s really hard to get people to change their lifestyles.

      Once again, this isn’t the place to invite outside contact.

  41. Ralph says:

    I can only say one thing. I have taken the vitamins an minerals for 15 years. I don’t sell any. I have seen many improvements in my health and my ongoing health that no matter how expensive I keep taking them. They work for me and that is all I need.

  42. Anna Shandoz says:

    Did you have health problems prior taking their products? How many months after you are taking the products when you feel the improvement.
    Any way, if you are healthy why are you keeping the supplements, surely if you are not abusing your body and taking the healthy life style, you should not need any vitamins and mineral nor going to the doctor

  43. Vogel says:

    Ralph said: “I can only say one thing. I have taken the vitamins an minerals for 15 years. I don’t sell any. I have seen many improvements in my health and my ongoing health that no matter how expensive I keep taking them.”

    That was at least 3 things, but whatever. Youngevity’s snakeoil MLM crap doesn’t cause improvements in “health” (a conspicuously threadbare claim). That was BS claim #1. BS claim #2 was that you don’t care how expensive the product is; an illogical claim straight out of the MLM Con Artist’s Handbook. No one in their right mind would profess their love of grossly overpaying for mundane vitamin supplements.

    Ralph said: “They work for me and that is all I need.”

    That apparently is not all you need; for some reason you also felt the need to come to this site and make vague BS claims, like “they work”. You’re fooling no one.

  44. Paul says:

    I myself have been suckered in Youngevity’s outrageously expensive products. When I choose a Lexus over a Toyota, I know I’m paying a substantial premium for small improvements in quality and features. I’m basically paying for the name brand and bragging rights. Depending on who you are, this extra cost may be worth it. When you pay substantially more for a product such as Youngevity over conventional vitamins, you have no way of measuring it’s worth or value. The problem with these products is they rely primarily on your faith and gullibility. There is no way you can objectively test any of the company’s claims. BTW, Youngevity is one of Alex Jones’ Infowars sponsors, which is a very shady organization.

  45. Soledad Gonzalez says:

    Thanks to your research and my searching about Youngivity. I was able to stop on time before throwing my little bit savings I had in buying this products. You just saved someone from being scammed!!

  46. Joe says:

    Only one problem with your review of Youngevity.

    Your comparing a Youngevity “tangy drink mix” with a Opti-Men “pill”.

    Tell us vitamin drink mixes that are comparable to Youngevity.

    Otherwise your “pill” and “drink mix” comparison makes you look stupid.

    I didn’t read your whole article, but hopefully you didn’t make more crazy comparisons.

    (Canada)

    • Lazy Man says:

      Take your Opti-Men “pill” and put it in this $5-ish pill crusher. Then combine it with some Kool-aid, crystal light, or other cheap drink mix of your choice. Boom, instant “vitamin drink mix”!

      Sorry you were too stupid to figure that out.

      Most people don’t care to about vitamin drink mixes. Next time you go to CVS count how many vitamins come in pill form vs. drink mix form. You’ll see what I mean.

    • Joe says:

      A pill crusher, thats all you could come up with. Again you were comparing a pre-made drink mix powder with a pill.

      And I find you less credible, when in another comment, your supporting GMO non-sense. The scientists who support GMOs are being paid big bucks and know they would get black balled, if they went against GMOs.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I guess you didn’t understand that if you use a pill crusher and any pre-made drink mix of your choice, it is nutritionally (full of vitamins and minerals) and functionally (a beverage) equivalent.

      If you want to pay me the money, I’ll crush the pill into some pre-made drink mix powder and call it Lazevity. Not sure why you’d want pay me a ton of money for essentially equivalent nutrition. However, I have a few minutes to make a thousand dollars from you. Shoot me an email here and I’ll give you my Paypal address.

      That’s simply not true about GMOs. Almost all scientists are on-board with GMOs… and no one is paying off all scientists with big bucks. The money simply isn’t there for it. No one would be able to blackball almost all scientists. If you read the reputable sources I cited, you’d probably understand the issue better.

    • Joe says:

      I found Opti-Men locally and found another problem with your comparison. Opti-Men only has 300mg of vitamin c, while Youngevity adds 1000mg vitamin c.

      http://www.popeyescanada.com/opti_men_multi_vitamin_optimum_nutrition_150_tablets.html

    • Geoff says:

      Joe said, “I found Opti-Men locally and found another problem with your comparison. Opti-Men only has 300mg of vitamin c, while Youngevity adds 1000mg vitamin c.”

      Oi…Joe so many issues. First of all, when was the last time you heard of a case of scurvy? Never? That’s because we get plenty of Vitamin C from our daily diets.

      Let’s get into the math you failed to mention.

      Tangy Tangerine costs $58.00 for a 30 day supply (http://youngofficial.com/product/youngevity-beyond-tangy-tangerine-2-0/?gclid=CjwKEAjw-uDABRDPz4-0tp6T6lMSJADNoyPbaoQt0dEH7os0mm8E1x9eqQLca5iiE8GfsS_yM24LoRoC8H3w_wcB)

      Opti-men costs $22.56 for a 50 day supply. (https://www.amazon.com/Optimum-Nutrition-Opti-Men-Supplement-Count/dp/B00K2RJAR0/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1478029137&sr=8-1&keywords=optimen%2Bmultivitamin&th=1)

      Opti-men suggests you take their pill 3x a day which is way more Vitamin C than your body can need or process (most gets flushed out in your urine). In fact, if you took one Opti-men pill a day it would be more Vitamin C than you could ever need.

      Now the kicker, if Opti-men has plenty of Vitamin C (along with other vitamins and minerals), and it comes in a bigger supply at half the price…WHY THE HECK ARE YOU BUYING TANGY TANGERINE!?!??!

  47. rob says:

    Well then tell me why that when I first started their products I thought their were garbage to going from taking their plant derived minerals and acted has If something like an positive charge turned on? Please explain me why I had that effect and It wasn’t no harmful side effect either like pharmaceuticals. Has to this day I truly believe In their stuff to before I didn’t.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Maybe you should tell us why you’d start products that you think are garbage?

      Please tell me why numerous people claimed to have the same experience with MonaVie when the inventor admitted it was nothing more than “expensive flavored water.”

      Maybe when you are paying so much for a product you perceive it will work. It’s called the price-placebo effect. People who pay more for wine think it’s better. The placebo effect is well-known.

      If you feel that “something like an positive charge turned on” from vitamins and minerals, you should have it taken to a lab for analysis. No one eats an apple or broccoli and has that experience. I’d be worried there’s something in there that there shouldn’t be like ephedra or something.

    • rob says:

      Do you not know anything about brain chemistry Is what I was referring too yeah I know It don’t have that effect from eating fruit etc but what does fruit and of that such give you ENERGY etc. I’m not an dumbass. I look at depth at things before I even try them plus the healthiest you can be you wouldn’t even need to see an doctor. I even looked Into Dr. Hoffer about nacin In general I have looked everywhere. Oh yeah right ephedra Is In yeah right I know what that can do to you I’m not that stupid. All wine Is made from grapes but recipe Is all about how It’s done.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I’m not sure any of that was a coherent thought Rob. The first thing you wrote seemed like an attempt at a sentence, but I couldn’t really get what you were saying.

      Yes, there’s a recipe for wine, but wine is still wine. There isn’t a magical brand of wine that cures autism or any other disease. Vitamins and minerals are still vitamins and minerals. There isn’t a magical brand of vitamins and minerals that cures autism, cancer, or any other known non-deficiency disease.

    • rob says:

      Not always the cause quality control and the recipe of how It’s made matters has well so every company does things different so for you to say that would be like you saying that If you go to the grocery store you are gonna get the same quality control and same know how that what’s In the bottle Is exactly what’s In the bottle.You really don’t have an expertise of how companies do things. So If you say so! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/03/gnc-target-wal-mart-walgreens-accused-of-selling-fake-herbals/

    • Lazy Man says:

      Rob, what evidence do you have that Youngevity, or any other pyramiding company, would have better quality control? Given that they’ve been admonished essentially en masse by the FTC for misleading and false representation, I would think it would be even worse.

      Since we know that vitamins, minerals, and supplements are a waste of money, it seems like a stretch to suggest that further uncertainty would help matters.

      It would be like having a little league team competing with an MLB one and thinking, “But if we replace the human manager on the little league team with a monkey, we can’t lose!” (Admittedly, this is not my best analogy.)

    • rob says:

      Yea they tell us It’s an waste of money but yet no one gets blamed for what big pharma has they kill us one example grey frey and look what happened to him plus I guess you people are stupid enough to not look at the hippocate oath classic vs modern so you like to continue seeing an MD go ahead they really do nothing for us In an perfect world we would be taking care of ourselves.
      https://owlspace-ccm.rice.edu/access/content/user/ecy1/Nazi%20Human%20Experimentation/Pages/Hippocratic%20Oath-classic.html

    • rob says:

      not grey frey glenn frey so we like to think that’s the norm and that It’s so grad and perfect.

    • Vogel says:

      WTF Rob? Do you think you can say that again — in English?

    • rob says:

      Meaning why did I try something else and thought different of the company now??? How come I had little benefits from taking other vitamin products and I have taken a few of them before. I know what my body felt and I will continue to listen to It. For some good reason It had an good effect on my body somehow and I’m detrimated to figuring that out what It can do and what benefit I can get from It. If you can’t get where I’m coming at then don’t bother replying to my post Instead I would challenge you do go to where the products are made and compare that to other companies and see what they really do.

    • rob says:

      Determined*

  48. Michael says:

    LazyMan-

    What are your thoughts on probiotics/healthy gut flora and the role it plays in personal health?

    Is it possible that people who claim products like these ‘work’ for them is, at least in part, because they include some of the “good bacteria” that modern research has been showing is a fundamental key to the health of the immune system- if not also because of people following the recommendations of cutting out inflammatory foods like gluten, fried fats, etc?

    Is it possible that the ‘anti-bacterial’ approach of modern medicine can actually be so harmful to a patient that many sick people who see MD’s ultimately stay sick or get sicker whereas others who take an anti-inflammatory approach (be it with supplements or diet or whatever) often claim to get healthier? Do you disregard the notion that chronic diseases are largely a product of inflammatory health and dietary habits?

    Are you aware of whether or not any of these studies you’ve researched which claim that vitamin/mineral supplements don’t work were also controlled for things like gut flora/good bacteria/gut health and/or anti-inflammatory diets?

    Also, do you consider ConsumerLabs.com a useful resource in your (or anyone’s) analysis of supplements?

    Thank you.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I’m not a doctor or a nutritionist and I have no formal stance on probiotics. However, I will say they were suggested by our pediatrician a few years ago with some medication he prescribed. The packets were very cheap at the local CVS. If your doctor or nutritionist feels that’s a great thing for you, then I support it.

      I don’t concern myself with questions that begin with, “Is it possible…” I’d rather concern myself with statements such as “It has been proven and the FDA agrees that…”

      The studies that I mentioned were meta-analysis of many studies. You are free to read the methodology if you’d like. As you might be able to imagine they can’t control for everything. For example, you couldn’t control that everyone takes the same amount of steps or burns the same calories every day. It doesn’t mean that exercise is a factor.

      ConsumerLabs.com looks to be a private organization. If my memory serves, I had interest in one article on ConsumerLabs.com as they wrote something on another MLM product. However, the article required a subscription. So I didn’t find ConsumerLabs a useful resource.

  49. Vogel says:

    Michael said: “What are your thoughts on probiotics/healthy gut flora and the role it plays in personal health?”

    If that had anything at all to do with Youngevity – the topic at hand – I would take a stab at answering it, but it doesn’t and it’s way beyond the scope of this article to delve into it. If you want general information, go read WebMD instead. If you have a point to make here, then make it.

    Michael said: “Is it possible that people who claim products like these ‘work’ for them is, at least in part, because they include some of the “good bacteria” that modern research has been showing is a fundamental key to the health of the immune system- if not also because of people following the recommendations of cutting out inflammatory foods like gluten, fried fats, etc?”

    What does that have to do with Youngevity? How would one even begin to address this question? There isn’t a single well documented case of Youngevity products “working” for anyone, ever; let alone any information about whether any of these alleged individuals ingested “good bacteria” or altered their intake of “inflammatory foods”. Speculating about it is pointless.

    MLMs that sell dietary supplements often recommend standard lifestyle and dietary changes to their customer-distributors. Obviously, losing weight or exercising more can lead to positive health effects, and these effects could mistakenly be attributed by some to the ingestion of Youngevity’s products. Rather obvious, no?

    Michael said: “Is it possible that the ‘anti-bacterial’ approach of modern medicine can actually be so harmful to a patient that many sick people who see MD’s ultimately stay sick or get sicker whereas others who take an anti-inflammatory approach (be it with supplements or diet or whatever) often claim to get healthier? Do you disregard the notion that chronic diseases are largely a product of inflammatory health and dietary habits?”

    Again, why are you asking these vapid open-ended medical questions here? This is a personal finance website and this article is about Youngevity. Basically, the answers to your questions are no and hell yes.

    Michael said: “Are you aware of whether or not any of these studies you’ve researched which claim that vitamin/mineral supplements don’t work were also controlled for things like gut flora/good bacteria/gut health and/or anti-inflammatory diets?”

    Yes I am aware of whether or not they did. Next question.

    Michael said: “Also, do you consider ConsumerLabs.com a useful resource in your (or anyone’s) analysis of supplements?”

    In some cases CL provides useful information; in other cases not. So what? The article doesn’t mention Consumer Labs. Youngevity’s products, as far as I know, haven’t been analyzed by CL.

    Please for the love of God, if you aren’t going to make a single damn point or at least ask a relevant question, go to WebMD instead and figure it out for yourself.

  50. rob says:

    Also I may add an MLM Is not an scam saying that It’s an scam would be like saying Avon Is an scam has that’s an MLM has well.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Or perhaps it would be like saying that Herbalife and Vemma were scams as they were an MLM as well. I hope you are aware of the news about them.

      And yes you should be careful of Avon too.

    • rob says:

      Oh really I should be careful how so??? omg your so lazy you don’t know what an Pyramid Scheme Is so your an Idiot has they have no product or services like MLM does offer product or services people like you are lazy just because of It didn’t work for you so that’s what makes It an scam. People I have known where happy with Avon just mores the pity that people like you because I known people who can do such things and they never had an Issue with them In doubt It’s cause they put there afford Into It It’s no different then working.

    • Lazy Man says:

      You should be careful, because you presumed that Avon was on the level… and it might not be.

      You should also be careful, because you seem to have been fed the wrong definition of a pyramid scheme (based on your next posts). You’d probably be best served by going by the FTC’s guidelines and definitions.

    • rob says:

      how long the company has been in business?

      whether it has a positive reputation for customer satisfaction

      what the buzz is about the company and its product on blogs and websites

      whether the company has been sued for deceptive business practices

      Before we continue have you done that?

      So your saying they are an scam when they have been around since 1995?

    • Lazy Man says:

      Herbalife has been in business since the 1980s and the FTC described their business the same way the do pyramid schemes… while fining them $200 million dollars and changing the scheme.

      A former expert with the FTC for years, explains why the FTC can’t put an end to MLM/pyramid schemes. Essentially they have to sue each one for many years, which costs taxpayers tons of money in legal fees.

      Again, please do you research before you post here. I’m not going to keep on spoon-feeding you all this stuff.

    • rob says:

      You have not answered my question so how can I take you seriously on this subject you have we aren’t talking about herbalife so once again

      how long the company has been in business?

      whether it has a positive reputation for customer satisfaction

      what the buzz is about the company and its product on blogs and websites

      whether the company has been sued for deceptive business practices

      Before we continue have you done that?

      So your saying they are an scam when they have been around since 1995?

      I’m not asking again If you can answer me at all then I won’t take you seriously I shouldn’t anyhow because I show be able to ask the question and get the straight answers and not be off subject and talk about Herbalife.

    • Lazy Man says:

      How can you not take me seriously? I’ve been writing about this stuff for years. Take a look at my website. Read the 1200 comments.

      I’ve answered your questions in other places probably at least a dozen times. You aren’t coming up with a new “hot take” on MLM in the 8-9 years I’ve been writing about it here.

      As I said before, the FTC found Herbalife to be scam when they’ve been around since 1980. The FTC didn’t say, “Oh Herbalife has been around since 1980 so it can’t be a scam.” I completely agree with that line of thinking for all potential scams. Bernie Madoff was around for 17 years before the SEC acted on his Ponzi scheme.

      Age of company is just one piece of the puzzle. Also, I haven’t been able to find sources showing that Youngevity has been around since 1995.

    • rob says:

      You dumb fool you show me that site and It says the questions to ask now If youngevity was a scam was does the bbb have an A+ rating for of 22 years? I’m done here wasting my time we will all see 100 yrs from now I believe we will look at doctors today and say why did we do that. The same way that they did bloodletting now we look back at that and we think that was barbaric. So take your non sense and put your care Into an MD see how far you get. Sooner or later those house of cards will fall.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Umm, Please see this on CNN about BBB ratings. You really shouldn’t be trusting them… unless it’s a bad grade as consumer advocate Clark Howard points out.

      Look no further than Vemma receiving the BBB’s A+ rating too which was followed up with the FTC shutting them down alleging they were a pyramid scheme.

      What happened there, Rob?

      I wish you could actually think for yourself rather than just point at things and say, “Hey, it’s got an A+!” Where are your critical thinking skills?

      I think our scientists are a little more advanced than you give them credit for. It’s not like vitamins and minerals haven’t been studied extensively. They have… it’s just that in general they are a waste of money.

    • rob says:

      But yet If they are the waste of money we listen to the doctors today that gives us pills that we are on the rest of your life If you think that’s perfect then by all means go with them because I think you need them.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I never said it was perfect. I simply said that it’s the only thing that has been proven to be effective. Vitamins and minerals in general haven’t been shown to be more effective than carrying around a rabbit’s foot in your right pocket.

      Why aren’t you advocating that as a medical solution?

    • rob says:

      Because I believe the medical system Is broken just recently I see an warning ad on an usa channel saying about an diabetes drug saying that It could cause coma and such and to call an attorey for an consultation. Attorey’s even know more about malpractices. So If they have those and the drug ads that say side effects It made me think but not only because of that but because of what I researched. Everything Is controlled for money and greed they even still use chemo how can you use something that’s toxic??? then you look sick afterwards and then you have doctors like Dr.Farid Fata. I know what the system Is all about It’s up to us to take care of ourselves but most go to the doctor thinking they know best then you have someone like glenn frey dead.

  51. rob says:

    Attorney for an consultation* Attorney’s even know more about malpractices*

    • Lazy Man says:

      You realize that the attorney is just trying to drum up business for a lawsuit. Most likely they’ll file something and scare the company into a settlement of a million dollars or two…. and the attorney will take much of that.

      It’s simply some lawyers’ business model. You should read anything into it about the health care industry. And again, if you have anything better, please present it along with the large-scale, placebo-controlled trials that prove it works.

    • rob says:

      I understand that how attorney’s work I ain’t an fool but what I’m not stupid for Is you look around and all you see Is sick people the real truth behind that Is because everything Is controlled by big pharma they will suppress how things are. My other reason Is because this happens how can we trust them to get them to give us an pill when this has happened?
      http://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005528

  52. rob says:

    Also my other belief that really happen and I have witnesses to back me up on this claim when I heard about Dr. Carol Dean she was talking about asthma and magnesium I followed her theory because I have had a bad attack one night when I was at one friends place and I went ahead and followed what she even said and worked they even witnessed me breathing better so you tell me.

    • rob says:

      It wasn’t even an MLM product dumbass It was from the health food store where I am at. Like I said I asked you why did It work? and I have an witness to It so really you don’t know how some products out there work.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I can’t read most of what you write due to the grammar. Youngevity is an MLM product. However, the article mentions things that cover non-MLM products as well.

      People do just heal sometimes. There’s a thing called the placebo effect.

    • rob says:

      You think you’re so perfect just to judge people like me this Is why the minority of the time I don’t reply to shit article’s like this because I get brought down saying that what you do doesn’t work I know my body dumb ass. I know how things work with stuff that’s why there Is research and I have bought the magnesium locally at a health store. I know what I have witnessed and so have my friends that night. If It didn’t work I would have still been hard of breathing and It was that bad so can practice what you preach but you can never preach what someone has witnessed. It would be like me saying you can’t have coffee and take that away from you.

    • Lazy Man says:

      I’m trying hard not to judge you, but you keep on calling me dumbass and saying that I don’t know what a pyramid scheme is. You come into my home (this blog) and rudely insult me.

      If you don’t like the article, then don’t read it. However, you didn’t seem to argue with it too much, except to quibble with what amounts to around 3 cents of vitamin C in Opti-Men’s. Even so, I clearly explained in the article that there were some differences… vitamins and minerals aren’t rarely the same just like Coke, Pepsi, and Sam’s Choice cola aren’t going to be the same. It’s important to not get lost in the weeds and realize that they are functionally the same.

      You say, “I know my body dumb ass.” There’s probably at least 200 years of psychology that shows this isn’t true. People are surprised by optical illusions all the time for one example. I’m not trying to be perfect here, but just saying that there’s a lot of psychology that shows that people THINK they know their mind and bodies, but then they don’t. That’s for people in general. Maybe you think you are so perfect that you are the one example that disproves 200 years of psychology research. If so, congrats to you. I’m just not going to believe your word for it.

      I’m not taking anything away from anyone. (And you can have my coffee, I hate the stuff.)

      The placebo effect works. It’s been proven. It explains why your breathing is better. In one way, that should be all that matters to you. It works for you, so great! However, in another way, people spread false information in testimonials that magnesium helps with breathing… and then use that as a basis to get people to buy overpriced products through pyramiding to try to make themselves rich. That’s where I have a problem.

    • rob says:

      I’m not trying to Insult you In anyway If I did I’m sorry but I like to look for ways to Improve my health then today’s doctors and then see this (your blog) has they tried and have failed us then for me to come around and not get an damn what I think. I do understand where you’re coming from but I would just rather be healthy then me having to go to an doctor and having to take pills because all he knows Is fucking pills which pisses me off. Because It has to be all nothing but greed and money I know out there probably wish to help and make things right but who can we put our honest trust In when their’s nothing but Idiots and greedy bastards like Farid Fata and we have to put our full trust to them plus their own oath even says that “It may also be within my power to take a life” rather then first do no harm.

    • Lazy Man says:

      If you don’t want insult a person, it might be wise to avoid calling them “dumb ass.” I think 100% of the people called “dumb ass” consider it an insult.

      I’m not sure my blog post on Youngevity is seen by today’s doctors and/or effects their opinion. It would be a little like expecting my comment on Twitter about a bad football play impacting an NFL coach. Reputable doctors know that vitamins and minerals are not going to cure anything significant (other than the known deficiency diseases like scurvy).

      I know you are against pills, but I think the delivery method is a unique fear to you. Some people LOVE coffee and need it every morning. I take a 100mg caffeine pill a couple of hours after waking up to get my “boost.” Pills aren’t evil.

      I’m extremely fed-up with the heath care system. I have an article of 2000 words on the Epi-Pen that I’d love to publish, but it is beating a dead horse.

      However, the best medicine we have is… medicine. We can’t get lost in marketing and placebo effects… and use that to encourage others to get involved in MLMs where 99% of people lose money.

  53. rob says:

    If It didn’t work then why did my friends known I was breathing better?

  54. rob says:

    It wasn’t even an MLM product dumbass It was from the health food store where I am at. Like I said I asked you why did It work?

  55. Ericka Perez says:

    I think that supplements are wonderful and whomever says other wise is just blind… you may buy Dr. Wallach’s products without being on the multi level crap… you may join and just enjoy the discounts… my FATHER WENT FROM TAKING 25 UNITS OF INSULIN to ZERO in 10 days!!! I don’t sell the product!nor did I ever join, instead I bought from a young man that would bring it to my door, the PRODUCT WORKS!!! don’t let this blogger make you believe his lies.

    • Vogel says:

      Ericka Perez said: “I think that supplements are wonderful and whomever says other wise is just blind…”

      That’s a throwaway comment. There are tens of thousands of supplement products on the market. Many have been proven to be clinically worthless, mislabeled, contaminated, spiked, deceptively advertised, grossly overpriced, etc. Asserting that they are all “wonderful” is idiotic; making that assertion while calling everyone who disagrees with you “blind” is beyond idiotic.

      Ericka Perez said: “you may buy Dr. Wallach’s products without being on the multi level crap…”

      Right, and in that case they are even more scandalously overpriced. That’s not a selling point. It also turns a blind eye on the legions of people who are being taken advantage of as distributors for the company’s worthless products.

      Ericka Perez said: “you may join and just enjoy the discounts…”

      Right, so instead of overpaying 30-fold for laughably worthless mundane garbage, you’d only have to overpay 20-fold. That’s not a selling point either.

      Ericka Perez said: “my FATHER WENT FROM TAKING 25 UNITS OF INSULIN to ZERO in 10 days!!!”

      Why do you MLM cheerleaders insist on shouting for no reason and littering every statement with superfluous exclamation points. Do you think that it makes your transparent BS more compelling?

      Ericka Perez said: “I don’t sell the product!nor did I ever join, instead I bought from a young man that would bring it to my door, the PRODUCT WORKS!!! don’t let this blogger make you believe his lies…”

      You also never learned the wonders of punctuation, grammar, commonsense, critical reasoning, integrity, etc. You didn’t even specify which product you were talking about — Youngevity sells hundreds of worthless supplements, and you didn’t think to provide a product name — the most important detail? Doesn’t matter though, their entire inventory is an arsenal of overpriced BS. You also didn’t provide any details to back up your assertion that the blog host lied about anything.

      Ericka Perez said: “I will not be vising this site anymore”

      Why would you? To make more of a fool of yourself? You did your duty already – you threw poop like an irate monkey without making a single valid point. You can go now.

  56. Ericka Perez says:

    By the way the so called “reputable doctors” will not endorse vitamins and minerals as a cure because they will be out of business right away…!! and they will loose their kick backs from pharmaceutical companies!! too bad you are in the wrong side, I frankly don’t care whether you publish this or not.. I will not be vising this site anymore and the only reason that I will mention it is to let people know of your lies

    • Lazy Man says:

      If vitamins and minerals put doctors out of business, they’d already be out of business. It’s not like they are some kind of secret thing that no one takes.

      I don’t write any lies and I cite my sources.

  57. B2w says:

    Hi you two Ericka and Rob, please can you be open minded and should really give LITTLE credit to Lazy Man to publish this information. I have experience being unwell my best friends are: consultant, doctor and naturopathic, dietician. A true pharma reps as well as a true nutrition will provide the best advice to their clients: if the patients are ill, FIRST thing they advice their clients to advice the patients, to CHANGE their life style ie: daily exercises, stop eating junk food (fried food, meat with nitrate, BBQ etc …such as common sense), drinking plenty of liquid (non alcoholic nor soda) healthy food. Because I was in the verge killing myself with my condition, i started searching, discussing what was the best option for my condition, I never like taking medicine, however, medicine is good to help you to get better temporarily. while I got myself together to follow my doctor/s and consultant/s advice – a friend of mine bought me some stuff from Youngevity it was a pack of healthy brain …something..I am sure it cost my friends lots of many , all of them sort kind of giving me Christmas present two years ago for me to take it..but my condition getting worse..that supplements DONE NOTHING for me.I ended up to be rushed to the A&E and finally I got the operation, I am now getting better, I discussed with my doctors and naturopathy – and both of them giving the same advice…keep carry on with healthy lifestyle..your food is a medicine..so from both side opinion they were wright< you live in a healthy life style..YOU FREE FROM MEDICINE AS WELL AS SUPPLEMENT……. what I am trying to say is: be open minded take from both sides..DO YOU THINK the MDs will not save their loved one if they are ill and probably passed away of cancer???, DO YOU THINK THEY WON'T TRY THEIR BEST TO GET ANYTHING JUST TO SAVE THEIR FAMILY AND THEIR OWN LIFE IF THEY KNOW THAT SUPPLEMENTS CAN HELP?, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THEY WONT SEARCHED AND FIND THE BEST SOLUTION FOR THEM OR THEIR FAMILY, as money is not a problem to them???, big pharma have to charge for their products as they have spent millions for clinical trial…and the clinical trial is not only be done once, they have so many phases, most of the times its involving 20 – 30.000 people – so it is only natural they patent their drugs and get their money back…, on the other hand if you search on the website about supplement in clinical trial..majority of them stated : need further study as the recent trial did not produce significant result in other words: there is not much different?
    If some one feel really ache or headache..they take supplement the headache do not goes away, but when they take any pain killer – they have an immediate effect..hence a lot of people went to this road. Taking supplements would be waste of money if they are still have bad habit (eating junk food, smoking too much, drinking too much….)

    • rob says:

      I will keep an open mind I’m not trying to be meanful In the real world I just care so much about people but what’s sad Is the MD doesn’t even have an clue about nutrition. So you have to pay hard earn money just to go see an ND I really have my doubts Is what Dr Wallach talks about Is right I have researched studies that were done that talk about the soil. He also talks about how we used to use wood ash on our gardens. Looking from an another MD I found he has even said the same thing about how the soil or baby formula Is and he goes on that their were only 10 deaths on vitamins and minerals and how that’s been discredited and showing how many more die from prescription medications or from how the medical system Is.

    • Lazy Man says:

      MDs do care about nutrition. Try asking them. I haven’t found who said, “Hey that nutrition stuff? It’s complete BS. Everyone should eat fast food and drink Coke all the time.”

      Your MD should be able to refer you to a dietician or nutritionist. I think many health plans would cover it.

      Yes, you can pay for a Naturopathic Doctor (ND). However, you should read this great piece about Naturopathy by a former ND. I’ll give his conclusion: “Naturopaths seem so embroiled in alternative and old-timey practices that they tragically disregard standards and patient safety. Given their poor medical education and commitment to fanciful principles, NDs are bound to do more harm than good.”

      So why not go to a dietician that doesn’t have the issues of an ND?

      I’ve covered (with much help from commenters) the soil stuff in the article. We actually get a lot more nutrition now than ever before because of agricultural science and access to nutritional information. Of course, eating healthy is up to you, but that’s really all you need to do.

      I’ll agree that few die from vitamins and minerals. However, vitamins and minerals aren’t shown to be effective. Don’t confuse safety with effectiveness like Wallach. My couch is very safe compared to a car. There are many more car accents than couch accents each year. However, my couch isn’t an effective source of transportation. It’s safe, but not effective.

      There’s a lot of crap going on with the medical system. Much of it is man-made stuff and politics. I presume you’ve read about the Epi-pen pricing stuff. It’s terrible and the system is terrible. However, the Epi-pen is effective in what it does. People are displacing their unhappiness with the medical system to the products themselves and failing to recognize that they have undergone testing with the FDA to be proven effective. Show me the vitamins and minerals that have done that and we can open up a great discussion.

    • rob says:

      I’ll just continue believing In what I believe In MD’s don’t get tested for nutrition when they go to school that’s why I trust ND’s more then the MD has I believe that’s what one of the future doctors will be this article that Dr. Wallach shows Is Interesting which Is “WHO NEEDS DOCTORS?: Your future physician might not be an M.D.–and you may be better off”. Another thing If MD’s known so much about nutrition like you say they do then why would they even talk about giving someone an pill for lets say their high blood pressure because thats what they talked about when I last went In at the one time when I had high blood pressure I’m fine now because I took charge of my own health. All that an pill does Is manage It so In other words they no nothing since when do they spend more hours with the patient then an ND? I’m not stupid I know what today’s doctors are all about.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Everyone believes what they believe. I can only lead a horse to water. It’s up to you if you want to drink.

      I think MDs do get nutritional training, but it isn’t the focus. They go to school for what, 12 years? What do you think Harvard Medical School is teaching all that time? It’s probably a lot of important things about anatomy, medicine, reputable research, etc.

      Are you looking for MDs to go to school for 15-16 years before they can help people? Why not trust dieticians who have gone to school for nutrition? Why not trust them more than NDs?

      Rob said, “Another thing If MD’s known so much about nutrition like you say they do then why would they even talk about giving someone an pill for lets say their high blood pressure because thats what they talked about when I last went In…”

      Doctors can tell people to eat healthy, but it doesn’t stick. Many people prefer the taste of unhealthy foods with fat and sugar. Most of us know we shouldn’t eat Cinnabon, but we do it anyway. We don’t base our eating decisions on health alone, but also convenience, price, taste, and even our emotions.

      Isn’t it fair for the doctor to give you a product that is FDA approved to help with your condition? Before you answer, recognize that Youngevity vitamins are the equivalent of a pill… but it isn’t approved or shown to help with a condition.

      Did you ask to see a dietician about your high blood pressure?

      You seem to just be against medicine. I don’t think that’s healthy and I believe you should seek help with that.

    • rob says:

      I’m against It because of what I known It’s all about money. When does the doctor make more money when your sick or when your well? when your sick. When does the pharma industry make more money when your sick or when your well?

    • Lazy Man says:

      “When does the doctor make more money when your sick or when your well? when your sick.”

      This is false logic like suggesting that someone has car that doesn’t need energy… but the gas companies hiding this secret.

      While your circumstance may be true, you need to think more critically. Any doctor that can reliably make people better from anything stands to gain a huge amount of fame and fortune. Also, you are suggesting that doctors are keep their families and loved ones sick. Would you keep your child sick to make a little extra money? Of course not.

      And of course, anyone in the world can show that they have something that works better. However, no one has.

      “When does the pharma industry make more money when your sick or when your well?”

      People are always going to get sick… it’s the natural order of things. A pharmaceutical company that can present a better solution stands to make a lot more money. See how much Gilead has made from Sovaldi. By your logic, such a drug would never have been released.

      Again, please use your critical thinking skill rather than parroting the stuff the MLMer pitch. (These are old, tired arguments that I’ve only seen from MLMers.)

    • rob says:

      I’m also fine doing everything myself I don’t trust doctors and this Is one example he didn’t listen to doctors about them about cholesterol which I know now It’s an myth and look how long he lived http://prnt.sc/d3p33f

    • Vogel says:

      Rob said: “I’m against It because of what I known (sic) It’s (sic) all about money.”

      And what do you think Youngevity is all about? It’s certainly all about money – for a very select in-group of con artists at the expense of legions of suckers and desperadoes. If you were really against enterprises that are “all about money”, rather than just using that as a paper-thin BS excuse to defend a blatant scam, you would be deadest against Youngevity.

      It’s readily apparent that Youngevity is targeting and trying to profit from sick people. So if your logic about financial motives were applied equally across the board, we’d have to assume that Youngevity and its distributors would be desperately hoping for people to be sick, because if they were healthy, there would be no opportunity to foist upon them the company’s worthless BS products.

      Rob said: “When does the doctor make more money when your (sic) sick or when your (sic) well?”

      The doctor makes the same either way. A doctor’s income doesn’t depend on the health status of any single patient. People get sick. It’s a fact of life. When they do, they go see doctors. At least those with a modicum of sense do; idiots buy stupidly overpriced pyramid scheme snakeoil from parasitic know-nothing charlatans.

      One of my good friends is an ace shoulder surgeon – makes a mil plus a year. People lineup to get an appointment. He doesn’t make any more or any less annually whether or not you decide to go see him for a procedure. He certainly doesn’t have to hope and pray that you will need a shoulder surgery. Shoulders sometimes wear out; so do hearts, lungs, muscles, brains, bones, etc. Doctors don’t have to chase people down to become customers or hope for people to get sick. You’re just so inured to being an obtrusive ambulance-chasing MLM whore that you forgot (or maybe never learned) what a well-intentioned, skilled, and educated professional looks like.

      Nutrition and preventive medicine are the domains of mainstream medical science; not some arcane shady society of semi-literate Youngevity assholes and fringe alt-health witch doctors who have contributed less than zero to our collective knowledge about all things medical and scientific. The latter make people poorer, dumber, and in all likelihood, less healthy. Doctors encourage their patients to eat well, exercise, and not smoke or drink alcohol excessively – all measures that are intended to make people healthier, not sicker. The same holds true of vaccines and a variety of other preventative measures.

      Aside from that, you ignore that physicians are not the only parties involved in the decision making process about health interventions. Healthcare insurers play a huge role, and it is certainly not in their financial interest for people to be sicker. Quite the contrary in fact; they are loathe to have such people among their insurees. Sicker insurees cost them more money while healthier insurees save them money. This simple fact alone completely negates your central premise.

      Rob said: “When does the pharma industry make more money when your sick or when your well?”

      Same logic applies. It makes no difference to Pharma’s revenue stream whether you’re sick or well today. You’ll get sick eventually and unless you have a death wish, you’ll resort to medicine. Pretty much everyone gets sick at some point, unless they die very prematurely. Do you think funeral parlors are hoping for people to die because they can profit from it? No, of course not; all they have to do is sit and wait, because death, like sickness, is an inevitably. It’s no different with docs (aside from the fact that most people who enter the profession have a deep-seated desire to help people).

      All of your comments are ridiculous, factually incorrect, and rife with paranoid hysteria.

  58. rob says:

    so If they got cholesterol wrong why should I listen to them about what to eat and what not to eat.

    • Joe says:

      Rob – A Naturopath will tell you to take suppliments, but at the same time say lots of exercise and change your eating habits.

      You still need to get tested for cholesterol. I guess you’ll end up paying for a special test.

      Not to mention all the other paid special tests, including vitamin and mineral levels.

    • Lazy Man says:

      rob wrote, “so If they got cholesterol wrong why should I listen to them about what to eat and what not to eat.”

      They didn’t get cholesterol wrong. It makes sense that cholesterol in food might translate to cholesterol levels in the body. Without definitive scientific data, they “issued caution” on dietary cholesterol.

      However, over time scientists discover new things and our knowledge advanced. Thus the caution was removed.

      With vitamins and minerals that research is considered complete by scientists and they don’t help. It’s not like all those research studies are suddenly going to change. It’s vastly different.

      One the other hand, there’s a long list of things that Wallach got wrong.

  59. rob says:

    If they didn’t get cholestrol wrong then how did george francis live to be of 112?he has broken what doctors have said so they would say that’s just because of genes well I would say what gene Is It doc show me they think because of an bad gene that I have something bs. Why when I go to the doctor they can’t prove that’s It’s all In the genes. So just because you said that then ask me how did he live to be 112?

  60. rob says:

    You don’t care to vaildate what I just shown.

    • Lazy Man says:

      rob wrote, “lmao not quackwatch – http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/quackpots/barrett.htm

      LMAO, not quackpotwatch by Tim Bolen – http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/bolen.html.

      Rather than just attack the website, why not read the claims and see that they are verifiable. It doesn’t matter if a space octopus delivers the message… we are only interested in the content of the message.

      Getting back to the point, Quackwatch is CLEARLY REPUTABLE.

      Again, please try to think critically and actually research this stuff. Don’t just accept scammers with an ax to grind.

    • rob says:

      Not the case I hear from our MD’s who blow the whistle of how the system Is I believe everything will change 100 yrs from now and that the 21 century will be the way medicine should have been from the start has It will collapse look when we thought bloodletting was the standard of care now we think It’s barbaric

    • rob says:

      the other reason I don’t trust you Is because you really don’t know the facts out there If I was an MD I would most likely be speaking the truth of It has well I have looked Into things that are really facts and knowledge to what’s happening. If you don’t wanna believe me and continue saying what I say to be false then why don’t you become an MD If you think healthcare Is so good.

    • Vogel says:

      Rob said: “the other reason I don’t trust you Is because you really don’t know the facts out there If I was an MD I would most likely be speaking the truth of It has well I have looked Into things that are really facts and knowledge to what’s happening. If you don’t wanna believe me and continue saying what I say to be false then why don’t you become an MD If you think healthcare Is so good.”

      Believe you? I can’t even begin to decipher what you were trying to say in that run-on stream of consciousness comment. Periods and commas would help, as would having a logical point. Your premise seems to be that MDs are bad whereas Youngevity’s pyramid scheme snakeoil is great. But commonsense and every fact presented here to date overwhelmingly refute that notion.

      You are mistaken if you think anyone here is trying to win your trust. We are in fact trying to protect people from predators, con artists, and dangerous idiots exactly like you.

  61. rob says:

    other MD’s*

  62. Vogel says:

    Man oh man! Jon Oliver’s 30-minute segment on MLM was a brilliant indictment of everything that’s wrong with this skeezy “industry”. First-class work and arguably the best produced, most thorough, and far-reaching expose of MLM in any form of mass media to date. The fact that it was entertaining as well is gravy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI

    Aside from beating the daylights out of Herbalife, he gave Youngevity a well-deserved thrashing too, focusing coincidentally on the same moronic video by Denice Chenault that I roasted last year. I wonder if his researchers popped by Lazy Man’s site.
    http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/youngevity-scam/comment-page-6/#comment-1310549
    http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/youngevity-scam/comment-page-6/#comment-1310497

    Thank you Jon Oliver. That masterpiece was a mitzvah!

    • Lazy Man says:

      I’ve been looking for John Oliver to cover MLM for some time. I’ve spent hours and hours today working on an article on this.

    • Chris says:

      What a great segment!

      The second he showed the clip of Denice Chenault, I immediately remembered your posts and wondered the same thing.

      I’m having a good chuckle thinking about all the butthurt MLMers getting bent out of shape as they watch this. I wonder if they’re rubbing Youngevity’s “Heat Pain Relief Salve” on the burn!

    • Geoff says:

      I’m so glad he made it a segment on his show! This is exactly what the FTC needed to help put an exclamation point on their recent case with Herbalife.

      On a side note, I’ve been writing on the HBO forum to make MLM a topic for months now…so I’m willing to take partial credit for this segment haha.

  63. Julie says:

    Saying big pharma isn’t a pyramid scheme is retarded.its the biggest!!!!! And they are exempt from prison if their meds kill people witch they do.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Julie, do you have any idea of what a pyramid scheme is? Cars kill people too. We aren’t going to start sending all the auto makers to prison are we?

  64. Vogel says:

    It takes a village! Good job to all y’all for fighting the good fight.

  65. Joe says:

    Heh, next your going to call Infowar’s Dr. Group supplements a scam.

    • rob says:

      lmao Ikr that’s what I’m thinking has well just let these gullible people go with their lives and expect that their MD Is god and thinks everything they know Is best.

  66. Vogel says:

    I don’t think any “MD is god”. But I do know that everyone associated with Youngevity is a lying parasitic POS. Not a difficult choice to make.

    • rob says:

      LOL I guess you don’t know how the body functions It would be like If we didn’t have food or water we would die so you expect to listen to an MD to manage It with an drug which keeps the pharmaceutical In business.

    • Geoff says:

      Rob said, “LOL I guess you don’t know how the body functions It would be like If we didn’t have food or water we would die so you expect to listen to an MD to manage It with an drug which keeps the pharmaceutical In business.”

      I’m curious as to where you came to these conclusions about MD’s and the pharmaceutical companies as a whole. This baffles me, because you probably have 0 education about the body and how it works, and yet you can sit here and pass judgments on an entire group of people and medication-based industry as though you knew everything.

      For the record, not that you would necessarily care, but the MD’s and big pharma are policed by the FDA and State medical boards. Youngevity has products that are not regulated by anyone…Doctors are trained on average for 14 years, and a rep for Youngevity has 0 medical training. The average time it takes a drug to be approved after many clinical tests and trials is about 3 years. Youngevity was able to release their product with no trials, and has not been approved by the FDA.

      So I ask again, why are you so adamant about MDs and big pharma being bad? I’m not trying to suggest their perfect, or even close to perfect, but at least they have training and science behind their drugs and diagnoses.

  67. Vogel says:

    “LOL I guess you don’t know how the body functions It would be like If we didn’t have food or water we would die so you expect to listen to an MD to manage It with an drug which keeps the pharmaceutical In business.”

    Oh Rob you poor sad sack. I have forgotten more about how the body functions than you could ever know in 5 lifetimes.

    Your premise is idiotic. It boils down to — I don’t trust a doctor’s knowledge about how the body functions (even though they spent a decade in school studying it), so I’ll trust a street-sweeper instead.

    I already shattered your BS premise about Pharma. Overly optimistic of me to think that facts could penetrate your cranium (and tin-foil hat).

  68. Shawn Clay says:

    So, what your basically telling me is that by buying Youngevity products is i could be harming myself and getting very little or no benefit from the products at all. Of course, as you mentioned, there is no clinical research on Youngevity’s products or supplements of being beneficial than how would you know of them being harmful? If per say Tangy Tangerine does have the vitamins and minerals they claim they have, how can they be harmful? Also, if I was to by the vitamins and minerals separately, they would cost much more. Your claiming there is no benefit from buying Youngevity products, what do you have to show that it is harmful?

    • Lazy Man says:

      Shawn Clay,

      You are free to form your own opinion after reading the article. I think consumers should be informed about the scientific consensus that supplements don’t help and the other information (as referenced in the article) that supplements might even be harmful.

      There’s no clinical research about the health of my aunt’s sugar cookies, but I’ve seen the sugar she puts in them. I don’t believe she’s using magical healthy sugar. I presume that anything I read about the negative health effects of sugar apply to those sugars even without specific clinical research on them.

      As always, I’ll let everyone make their own conclusions.

      I’m not sure I follow your logic that taking the vitamins separately would be more money. You would be getting more quantities of them (like a whole bottle of vitamin C). Instead, I showed that you could save money with something like Opti-Men’s vitamins, which is more or less equivalent (please see article for information on this).

    • Shawn Clay says:

      Hey Lazy Man, I appreciate your insight and research on the notion that supplements don’t help. I’ve never heard that before. I grew up with my mother always shoving vitamins and cod liver oil by the teaspoon down my throat, ( Puke ) but never imagined that they don’t help. I really hate the idea of not only wasting my money, but being filled with false hopes that I might be able to be superman again. I thought that Dr. Wallachs speech on our body’s can heal itself from cancer and we don’t need treatment like chemotherapy, and there is no more nutrients in our soil so send us your money and take our products, and the doctors wasted their time in medical school they don’t know what their talking about. I will look into this more and talk with my health professionals, thankyou Lazy Man.

    • Joe says:

      Actually Youngevity was brought to court once and was court ordered to remove some harmful stuff from their Tangy Tangerine.

      It sounded like it had to do with Arsenic.

      But I only heard that from someone else.

  69. JAN says:

    Have you tried is products? Have you listen to his morning talk show Mon-Fri at 7:00 a.m. Pacific Time on 1340 AM radio? I would suggest you listen to this program and listen to people who use Joel Wallach’s products and seem to me getting well with these illnesses. I have been using his daily vitamin liquids and powders and I know they have helped me, in fact my doctor is lowering my prescriptions. You can listen to many people who are being helped by his products. I think you have to listen to this program and be in need of alternative methods to cure illnesses. If you want proof why don’t you research the present food sold at grocery stores that have 50 or more pesticides taking away the needed enzymes, nutrients, and minerals need by human, but are not there in the food supply. Do your research.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Jan,

      If you are asking if I’ve tried the products, you haven’t read this article. Please read it and then come back with an intelligent argument on that topic. When you read that article, you’ll find than many MLM products get people through illnesses… if you listen to them. You shouldn’t because this only happens with MLM products.

      I find it notable that you didn’t provide your information. You seem to want to hide in the shadow rather than provide your information and your doctor’s information so that we can validate your claim.

      I don’t know who (his?) has a morning radio show at 7AM Pacific time on 1340 radio.

      Have you reviewed Truth in Advertising’s claims that Youngevity agreed with? I think you should.

      As I showed in the article, there is no problem with food sold in stores. Did you do your research? Did you read the previous 1200+ comments?

  70. DEBRA says:

    Hi. Thank you for your insight. I don’t know if youngevity products are all that they claim to be. What I do know is that when I started using a nutribullet, my blood sugar came down and my mind cleared up. My aches and pains went away. Then I started taking vitamin d3 and I felt a little bit better. My mild depression left and I stopped getting colds in the winter. I also stopped getting flu vaccines. Ironically all my doctor Co workers get the sniffles and other viral illnesses during the winter. I then added magnesium glycinate and my muscle spasms stopped.
    Then I found essential oils. I started giving my asthmatic anxious daughter lemon, peppermint and lavender oils. She went from 5 to 6 asthma attacks a day to being able to join the volleyball and swim team. Using the oils, my psoriasis cleared up. I had it for 20 years and no rx product worked.
    This last year my daughter missed 3 weeks school throughout the school year for severe headaches . Trips to the urgent care, pcp and er and she still was having headaches daily plus dizziness. She managed to get used to the pain. Last month i took her to a chirpractor and learned her spine was all out of whack. First treatment and she felt better than she had in 30 days. Now her headaches are down to a 3 and the dizziness is gone. We have a couple more sessions left to go. My personal experience has shown me that allopathic medicine leaves a lot to be desired. I’m positive that we are deficient in minerals and vitamins in this country. I’m also positive that the form you take your vitamins and minerals make a big difference. So maybe I can get the equivalent of vitamins and minerals that youngevity sells cheaper but I will definitely examine the labels carefully. I trust my experiences more than any scientific journal.

    • Lazy Man says:

      Thanks Debra. I like my NutriBullet too.

      There’s no evidence that essential oils work for any of that stuff. You might be confusing correlation with causation, but it doesn’t really matter because if you are going to be anonymous, your story doesn’t count for much.

      I know it’s easy to trust your experience, but you really shouldn’t. If you are looking at Müller-Lyer illusion, you would say that my experience says one arrow is longer. However, if you took a measuring device (such as those that are commonly used in scientific journals), you’d find that your experience was wrong.

      Measurements don’t lie.

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