It is a seemingly never-ending battle to help prevent consumers from being scammed by MLM schemes. Today we look to examine another one of them: Youngevity.
I had a reader ask me about Youngevity the other day. We’ll call him Spike. He wrote:
“Have you done any research on the Youngevity products & Dr. Joel Wallach? I have been taking their Tangy Tangerine product as well as the EFA’s & Osteo FX over the last 3 months. I read your article on Lifevantage and was very impressed by the depth of your study. Just wanted to see if you have uncovered anything with Youngevity.”
I had never heard of Youngevity. However, having looked into other MLM scams, I know one of the first places to look at is the cost of the product. Why? Because MLMs often require their distributors buy product to participate in the opportunity. The artificially expensive product pays the company hefty margins, and distributors often pay the surcharge month after month as a fee for what they feel will make them money.
When I looked into the prices of Youngevity’s products, it had all the tell-tale signs of an MLM scam.
The Value of Tangy Tangerine
The first product that Spike mentioned was Tangy Tangerine, a 32 ounce drink that is highly packed with vitamins and minerals. At a cost of around $40 for a 30 day supply it is upwards of $1.25 per serving. I did a quick search on Amazon and found Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men Multivitamins (180-pack) , which was similarly highly packed with vitamins and minerals. I didn’t compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close, more in some areas, less in others. The price on Amazon for Opti-Men is 10 cents a pill and 3 pills are in a serving, for a total of 30 cents a serving. So instead of paying $40 a month for Tangy Tangerine, you could be paying about $9-10 a month. Some of the reviews said Opti-Men was really powerful and there’s really no need to take three capsules, so you might find that you can save even more money by taking just one or two. (Side Note: The Opti-Men was the first thing I saw, I bet there’s an equivalent women’s version that is similar.)
Price per serving: $0.30 vs $1.25 in favor of Opti-Men. That’s a savings of a little more than 75%.
With Tangy Tangerine, another concern I have is with the marketing of this product. On the bottle it says “with 115 vegetables and fruits.” There are no fruit and vegetables in 500mg of powder and certainly not 115. Anyone buying into this claim should take a bottle to their doctor or medical professional (who isn’t affiliated with the MLM) and ask them if you can stop eating vegetables because you are getting 115 from Tangy Tangerine. I image they’ll find that humorous.
The Value of EPA Plus
Next up is EPA Plus. This supplement is like fish oil, but it is a blend of healthy oils like flaxseed. On the web I found it available for around $30 for 90 capsules, which is equivalent to 90 servings. That’s 30 cents a serving. So what’s the Amazon near equivalent? It’s Omega 3-6-9 Gold. It has the mix of different sources of good fats as well. It is $13 for 180 capsules which turns out to be 7 cents a serving… and at 1200mg you are getting more product. Update: 12/30/2013: Looks like that product is currently unavailable from Amazon. However, I spent another 30 seconds coming up with a good alternative from Amazon:
NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9 1000mg. It is around $15 for 250 capsules… 6 cents per capsule. If you use Amazon’s Subscribe and Save, you can knock that down another 20% for a price of around $12.50.
Price per serving: $0.06 vs $0.30 in favor of NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9. That’s 1/5th the price or 80% off of the Youngevity price… and it gets even cheaper with Subscribe and Save.
The Value of Osteo Plus
At this point, I got a little tired of searching, so I literally took the first thing that I found on Amazon and it seemed close to the Osteo Plus blend. Specifically, I am referring to: Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. I had to look at another website to get the nutritional information on this product as it wasn’t nicely available on Amazon. The nutritional information shows a more diverse blend than Youngevity’s Osteo Plus, but with lower amounts of calcium and vitamin D. These are the big things you’d be looking for in a osteo complex, so it looks like a bad fit. However, keep in mind that the Opti-Men product above had additional calcium and vitamin D, plus there’s the nutrients that you get from your regular diet. That should make up any difference. OsteoPrime Plus is priced at $17 for 120 capsules. However with 4 capsules per serving that is a 30-day supply on Amazon. The price for Youngevity’s Osteo Plus online that I saw was $41 also for a 32-day supply.
Price per serving: $0.57 vs. $1.28 in favor of Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. This time the savings are closer to 55%.
I should mention that these don’t seem to be random products that Spike picked out. They all seem to be part of what is calls the Youngevity Healthy Start package. This $112 product has the 30-day supply of all three Youngevity products. The price of this is combination on this site and this site is $112 (as of 4/27/2012). The later makes it seem like it a value as it normally costs $159.00. At $112, that’s $3.73 a day. The price of the three items that I listed above: 94 cents a day. That’s a savings of between 67-75%… or between $689.85 and $1018.35 a year.
The typical case for MLM is that the quality of the MLM product is better than any you compare it to. Clearly if both products were identical Honda Accords you wouldn’t pay more. This puts the pressure on the MLM to prove that its product is significantly better. This is where they hire a couple of medical professionals as scientific experts, but the reality is that they are paid spokesmen. What you really need to know when it comes to vitamins is that there’s a non-profit organization that you can trust: the United States Pharmacopeia. You’ll find these products have USP Verified Dietary Supplement Mark on them. I’ve talked to a lot of pharmacists and they all say that this is the place to start and end your search for supplement quality… however many admitted to me that standards are generally so good they don’t look for it themselves and just buy the cheapest generic brand.
Absorption of Youngevity and other Vitamins
Some commenters have tried to ignore this point about the USP. When they do, they often say that cheap vitamins aren’t absorbed well or that liquid absorbs better. It’s worth noting that there are no studies on Youngevity’s products absorption. If Youngevity’s products do absorb better than its competitors and this is indeed an important factor, why is there zero analysis on it? Another thing to keep in mind is that when researchers and scientists are researching vitamins, they often don’t choose liquid sources or even state the brand of vitamins at all. Why would scientists/researchers time and again choose to go through all the trouble of conducting studies with products that are known to be poor? The answer is that they aren’t using poor products.
Consumer Reports addresses the absorption of liquid vs. solid vitamins:
“Q. My wife pays a premium for liquid vitamin and mineral supplements, which are supposedly better absorbed by the body. Are they worth the cost? —D.P., Sacramento, Calif.
A. Probably not, unless your wife has trouble swallowing solid supplements. In theory, liquid supplements should be better absorbed by the stomach since they’re already dissolved. But there has been little research to substantiate that idea. And at least some evidence has shown no meaningful difference.”
I’d add that even if she has trouble swallowing solid supplements, there’s amazing technology called pill crushing that has existed for years which solves this.
When it comes to Youngevity it is worth keeping in mind the “Can I Pay Less for Something of Similar Value?” game.
However, perhaps the biggest thing to consider is that recent research is showing that supplements may do more harm than good.
It simply doesn’t make any sense to spend more money on something that doesn’t seem to work in the first place.
Update (12/16/2013): The well-respected medical journal Annals of Internal Medicine says, “Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements”.
This CNN article covered the situation well:
“The (vitamin and supplement) industry is based on anecdote, people saying ‘I take this, and it makes me feel better,’ said Dr. Edgar Miller, professor of medicine and epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and co-author of the editorial.’ It’s perpetuated. But when you put it to the test, there’s no evidence of benefit in the long term. It can’t prevent mortality, stroke or heart attack’.”
Many of the smartest people in the world have done the research on hundreds and thousands of people and haven’t anything that helps, and even found that it could be dangerous.
“Doctor” Joel Wallach
It’s worth noting that Youngevity is associated with “Doctor” Joel Wallach. Who is he? According to Skepdic he is a veterinarian and a naturopath.
The American Cancer Society sums up what you need to know about Naturopathy: “Available scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease, since virtually no studies on naturopathy as a whole have been published.”
[Update: When I wrote the article it seemed like a safe bet that most people would consider one of the largest non-profits/charity with the goal of rid the world of cancer reputable, but I’ve received a few comments from people, probably Youngevity distributors, that are to the effect of “This guy believes the American Cancer Society, now I know I can’t trust him.”There are numerous other reputable sources that make the point that naturopathy is quackery, not supported by the proven scientific method. There’s a list of six accredited Naturopathic schools (at the time of this update) and not one of them is associated with any university you have likely heard of. If you are one of the few odd people who are against the American Cancer Society, the point about naturopathy being quackery is well established by other reputalbe institutions.]
I love animals and my aunt is a veterinarian, but I’m not taking advice for my own health from a veterinarian and person who bases their treatments on things that haven’t been scientifically proven. There are hundreds medical doctors in a few square miles from where I live that are hundreds of times more qualified that Wallach. I’d put nutritionists as more qualified when it comes to supplementation as well.
I put “Doctor” in quote when referring to Wallach, because he’s a doctor in the sense that my wife, who has a doctorate in pharmacy (she’s a pharmacist) is a doctor. It’s a fair title for her education, but she doesn’t use the doctor title, nor does anyone else.
That skepdic article on Wallach is very illuminating as it goes into various antics that he’s done over the years. It is clear that he’s misrepresenting himself and making up lies (woman in China who lived to be 250?”)
Does Youngevity Work?
Sorry, but Youngevity joins the long list of MLM products with distributors claiming there are miracle health cures. Why do people make such claims? If you read nothing else today, read this: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not “Work”
About Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research (INR) (Update: 3/01/2013)
A few commenters (mostly distributors) have asked about where I stand on the “Clemson study” on Youngevity products.
Reading the Clemson press release on the relationship with Youngevity is interesting. Here’s a key sentence: “[Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research] goals are to develop greater confidence in product quality, effectiveness and enhance consumer demand for quality nutraceutical products.” (emphasis on “enhance consumer demand” is my own)
You know what another word for “enhancing consumer demand” is? Marketing. In other words Clemson’s goal is to market nutraceutical products, and Youngevity pays them money for that. Ever hear of the rich person whose kid isn’t all that bright, but he got into the top college anyway? The school just happened to get a nice library donated by rich family. The parallels here are obvious.
On February 5th, 2013, I noted that the website for Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research is not functional. Some may argue that I have the wrong URL there, but if I do, Google does too from this screenshot. As of this update, March 1, 2013, the website is still not functional.
In addition to the website being down for nearly a month a Google search for Clemson Institute of Nutraceutical Research gives almost all results for Youngevity. I couldn’t find any other research it has done aside from Youngevity, which is an obvious red flag.
Lastly as Commenter Mark Harris pointed out, Clemson’s INR is not listed on Clemson’s list of over 100 institutes and research centers (as of 12/30/2013).
With the website being down for months, lack of information about other studies, and Clemson’s own failure to recognize it, is that it is hard to take the institute, and hence this research, seriously.
With that said, I feel it is important to address the Clemson “research” itself. With that in mind, let’s take a look at the press release from AL International. One of the first things that pops of the page is that they classify the work as clinical research. However, it is quite clear from the study that this is laboratory research done on test tubes and not clinical research done on humans.
When you mix something up that basic, it’s hard to have any trust in the rest of the “study.”
Much of the press release focused on product safety. While we should all be concerned about safety, vitamins are generally considered safe, so such research is not necessary. If you were to read a review of a $200,000 car saying that it got people from point A to point B without exploding, you would probably be suspicious why they are focusing on something that even cheap cars should be able to do. You don’t buy a Ferrari because it doesn’t spontaneously explode, you buy it because it supposed to deliver an advantage over other cars.
The other part of the article focused on kill cancer cells in a test tube (i.e. cell cultures). On the surface, this seems like compelling information. However, seven years ago we found acai killed cancer cells in a test tube. Not only acai, but according to this USDA article a number of foods kill cancer in test tubes. Heck, even pot slows cancer in tubes.
The important thing to take away here is that lots of things, including vitamins kill cancer in test tubes. Clemson could have saved a lot of time if they weren’t in the business of marketing Youngevity by looking at the existing research. This US News article:
Recent clinical trials, for example, suggest that supplements of single nutrients like vitamins B, C, and E and the mineral selenium do not, as once thought, prevent chronic or age-related diseases including prostate and other kinds of cancer. Some substances, like green tea and ginger, seem to have potential in preventing or helping to treat cancer, but they may also actually interfere with treatment or have other serious side effects. Meantime, countless substances that kill or slow the growth of cancer cells in a test tube have not shown that same success in human beings.
So Youngevity, and it’s various ingredients are added to the list of “countless substances that kill or slow growth of cancer cells in a test tube”, but “have not shown the same success in human beings.
Here’s a thought from a pharmacist that I know and trust: “Bleach kills cancer cells in a test tube… I’m not going to drink it any time soon.” She might have been joking with the last part, but the point is clear: We are not test tubes. Few test tubes read this article… and they aren’t concerned about cancer. Many more humans read this article and I presume they are more interested in the fact that the research does not show success for them.
Even Youngevity’s own brochure on the study comes with a disclaimer: “Clemson University only supports the statistical data and analysis provided here. Clemson University does not support, endorse, or sponsor Youngevity or any of its products. Clemson University and its researchers are not affiliated in any way
with Youngevity Essential Life Sciences.”
As commenter Vogel put it: “There you have it. According to Youngevity, Clemson’s only contribution to this misleading research was the statistical analysis of the data. They did not generate the data itself.”
However, I’d take it a step further and suggest that the brochure itself is a violation of the FDA rules for marketing supplements. The FDA has sent this this warning letter to Nature’s Pearl. It specifically states:
“When scientific publications are used commercially by the seller of a product to promote the product to consumers, such publications may become evidence of the product’s intended use. For example, under 21 CFR 101.93(g)(2)(iv)(C), a citation of a publication or reference in the labeling of a product is considered a claim about disease treatment or prevention if the citation refers to a disease use, and if, in the context of the labeling as a whole, the citation implies treatment or prevention of a disease.”
This brochure with “anti-cancer” prominently in the title and throughout the brochure appears to be evidence of the product’s intended use. The small box at the end of the brochure reading “These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease” should tell you everything you need to know about Youngevity and cancer in clear and in no uncertain terms.
Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.
Bottom Line: Clemson duplicated research that was already well known to be irrelevant in an attempt to provide marketing for Youngevity. They didn’t do any clinical trials (tests in humans) of the product, presumably because they knew in advance it wouldn’t have given the positive result that Youngevity paid for.
When Youngevity puts out a press release saying, “The INR is a national leader in nutritional research and one of the most highly regarded organizations in the field of phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals” it is clear that it is complete bovine excrement.
Clemson Update (March 2017)
Truth in Advertising has archived the Youngevity Pamphlet on the Clemson study and has added it to it’s Youngevity Health Claims Database. They wrote a great Youngevity information article themselves that you should read.
The Daily Beast wrote about Youngevity too. Specifically they noted “questionable Clemson University research”. The article went further to get Clemson to officially comment and Clemson spokesperson Robin Denny told The Daily Beast:
“Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research did some limited preliminary laboratory research for Youngevity several years ago. No clinical trials were performed and Clemson has in no way endorsed any Youngevity product nor authorized the use of Clemson’s name or data in conjunction with any claims of efficacy. The Institute no longer exists.”
I’m not a legal expert, but it sounds to me that the spokesperson is saying that Youngevity shouldn’t have produced the pamphlet.
Youngevity and Depleted Soil
It seems that Youngevity is coaching its distributors to say that today’s soil is depleted of vitamins and minerals in order to create demand for their product. It sounds plausible until you look at little deeper.
Behind the deception there is a nugget of truth, which is what they use to sell you down this erroneous line of thinking. There is some credible information that some soil is deficient of vitamins according to this Scientific American article that cites a few sources. It is far from conclusive. That’s problem #1 with the argument, but for sake of argument we’ll pretend it is conclusive. There are a lot more problems.
A Youngevity distributor pitching this has made the bad inference that because we might be getting less than before we aren’t getting enough. If McDonalds cut the calories of its Double Quarter Pounder you probably wouldn’t be looking to add more to make up for “a deficiency.” It’s quite possible we were getting more than we needed in the past and still get enough (which I will cover in a minute). That’s problem #2.
Next, there’s sufficient research that supplements are a waste of money. That’s analysis of dozens of different studies on hundreds of thousands of people. Conspiracy theorists will say that article is biased or created by a “sickness industry”, but these people have no answer for why the same doctors and scientists put their loved through chemotherapy if vitamins and minerals actually worked. Getting back to the article, the conclusion was:
“The large body of accumulated evidence has important public health and clinical implications. Evidence is sufficient to advise against routine supplementation, and we should translate null and negative findings into action. The message is simple: Most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death, their use is not justified, and they should be avoided. This message is especially true for the general population with no clear evidence of micronutrient deficiencies, who represent most supplement users in the United States and in other countries.… we believe that the case is closed— supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful.“
I’ve added emphasis to three important parts. Supplements are not advised… problem #3. There is no evidence of micronutrient deficiencies in the United States and in other countries. This supports the point I made above in problem #2… we get enough. In fact, the people who are looking into Youngevity are probably those who are health-conscious and thus more likely to have a healthy diet that is devoid of deficiencies.
The final point the article makes is that supplements might even be harmful. That’s problem #4. You not only don’t appear to be helping yourself, but you might even be hurting yourself.
I’ve heard people try to discount that article and the science. They do everything can (like the “sickness industry” I mentioned above). I can’t understand how these people believe in some science and not others. They’ll take the whole thing about depleted soil as a given even though there’s far less analysis of that and throw out all the science about vitamins and minerals not being helpful. It’s as if they want to believe in addition, but not multiplication. It simply doesn’t make any sense to pick and choose arbitrarily.
Now let’s get to problem #5. Back in the Scientific American article they presented a solution to the depleted soil problem. It wasn’t supplements. “… foregoing pesticides and fertilizers in favor of organic growing methods is good for the soil, the produce and its consumers. Those who want to get the most nutritious fruits and vegetables should buy regularly from local organic farmers.”
And then there is problem #6 to this argument. It doesn’t give anyone a reason to buy Youngevity’s overpriced supplements (using the above analysis).
Vogel brings up another 7 more problems with depleted soil in this comment. Specifically:
- the main study cited, “did not look at any measurements of nutrient levels in soil”
- “the authors did not conclude that that the apparent decline in nutrient levels was attributable to soil depletion… that a difference in the strains being cultivated, not soil depletion, was the probable cause of the apparent decline in nutrient levels”
- “Some of the nutrients that apparently declined were only marginally lower, which is not likely to be clinically relevant”
- an apple from the 1950s might have higher levels of alar and DDT and other banned pesticides
- improvements in transportation allow for better access to a variety of fruits than in the 1950s.
- the diet in the 1950s was not very good (“potatoes and iceberg lettuce” cited), there is much more nutritional awareness today.
- “… diseases due to dietary nutritional deficiencies (like scurvy, rickets, beri beri, pellagra, etc.) were not uncommon in the 50s but have now been virtually eradicated in the U.S. due to improvements in standard of living and diet.”
About Youngevity’s Parent Company
One thing that came out of the Clemson research that I initially overlooked (I felt it was more important to focus on the product), is that the company is owned by AL International, a publicly traded company that is a penny stock. On January 25th, when the Clemson “research” press release came out, the stock was trading at 16.5 cents a share (I didn’t realize the stock market took ha’pennies). The total value of the company was 65 million dollars, less than some athletes sign for over 2-3 years. Stock prices vary and after the Clemson marketing, Youngevity got the desired result, a significant bump in stock price as penny stocks can do at times. (Note: they can drop just as quickly and are not very good investments.)
I tried to give a fair review to Youngevity based on its products in general, but as I’ve found in every MLM that I’ve looked at, the organization usually is centered around a few charlatans.
Update: I was pointed towards this great first person account with Youngevity. It is extremely long and detailed, but well worth your time if you are considering buying these products or getting into the business. The author actually became a nutritionist because Youngevity’s Wallach was slandering doctors making them seem untrustworthy all why claiming that their “glacial milk” was the answer. Here are some great quotes:
“So rather than just believing the bunch of facts and figures that were thrown at me by my lecturers, I approached the claims that Wallach had made by asking ‘where is the evidence?’ What I discovered was that Wallach’s claims were not only inaccurate but they were nothing more than very clever lies, designed to lull vulnerable people into a false sense of security in order to relieve them of their money.”
“I had also come across a handful of people from the church who had been approached by AL distributors claiming to cure them of their health conditions, many of them who had received no benefit but were too shy or ashamed to let their story be heard. Funnily enough, it was only those who for whatever reason, believed that they had been cured, whose testimonials were given at meetings and printed on the plethora of AL’s advertising material.”
“… I should simply stand up and ask Wallach why he was misleading people and to question him in front of the audience (of several hundred people) and the cameras. I did of course, which resulted in my swift removal (including being physically dragged out and thrown down a flight of stairs)…”
The story is truly amazing and should make it very clear that it best to avoid Youngevity and its marketing tactics that aren’t properly supported by any real evidence.
Mi says
It is the SAME couple of people who reply to all of the NEW comments. What I can’t understand is why they would make the time in their life to do so, don’t you have better things to do – what is in it for you? I know I am way too busy to care about the non-sense you people are so passionate about. Don’t you work, or have a life outside of this anti-youngevity posting? Please remove me from receiving more notifications, I am so done with this. I continue to be happy with the results from these products or I wouldn’t continue to buy them. Maybe I’ll become a distributor some day and then you can add me to your long list of negative name callings, and I will just smile at you. Thank you and good riddance.
Vogel says
Mi said: “It is the SAME couple of people who reply to all of the NEW comments.”
One of them is Lazy Man – the operator of the blog. It’s hard to imagine why you would find it surprising that he responds to posts on his blog.
Mi said: “What I can’t understand is why they would make the time in their life to do so, don’t you have better things to do – what is in it for you?”
It’s a safe bet that list of things you don’t understand is a very long one. It’s not at all difficult to understand why people might be motivated to comment; intellectual curiosity and a civic duty to protect people from being scammed by lying a-holes, for instance. You made time in your life to post a completely worthless gripe, so it’s ironic that you profess to not understand why others take the time to write thoughtful and cogent comments.
Mi said: “I know I am way too busy to care about the non-sense you people are so passionate about.”
Obviously you are not too busy or you wouldn’t have posted.
Mi said: “Don’t you work, or have a life outside of this anti-youngevity posting?”
You’re a special kind of idiot for asking that question. Posting comments a couple of times a month doesn’t impede one’s work or life outside the blog. Even if it did, it should be of no concern to you. And Lazy Man has a plethora of articles on his site; the Youngevity article is merely one out of hundreds.
Mi said: “Please remove me from receiving more notifications, I am so done with this.”
You could just uncheck the box you checked to opt in for the e-mails in the first place. Or you could hit the unsubscribe button on the e-mail notification. But no, you’d rather stamp your feet and make that embarrassingly pathetic declaration instead.
Mi said: “I continue to be happy with the results from these products or I wouldn’t continue to buy them.”
What results might those be and why wouldn’t you provide the details in the first place? The products are worthless snake-oil used as bait for a pyramid scheme by shameless scammers. Your anonymous, threadbare, unverifiable claim of “results” is utterly worthless.
Mi said: “Maybe I’ll become a distributor some day and then you can add me to your long list of negative name callings, and I will just smile at you. Thank you and good riddance.”
Maybe (definitely) you are one already. Congrats! You already made the long list of negatives about Youngevity. Have fun wasting your life with these a-holes and when you inevitably lose your money, time, and friends, remember that we warned you.
Thanks for nothing and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Mi,
Please use the instructions at the bottom of any notification you receive to unsubscribe. Thank you.
I have personally been with the company and taking the products for 20 years. I can tell you from experience that it’s the only product that you can actually feel working…you feel the life come into every cell of your body as you provide nutrients that your body has not had for years. If you want to continue to take One A Day vitamins thinking that you are doing a good thing for your body….then be my guest but your body can’t and won’t break it down….so you get nothing from there…there is no security there. Dr. Wallach was a veterinarian and a darn good one at that….he saw that animals get more nutrients than people….so he furthered his studies to help people. You need 90- essential nutrients every single day…90! They are called essential because your body needs them. that is 60 minerals, 16 vitamins, 12 amino acids and 2 EFAs. If you have a health challenge then there are supplements to add on to meet your individual needs. I am almost 65 years young take extra calcium for my bones, stomach enzymes because digestion decreases with age. Have you sat down and went through Dr. Wallachs literature, and how he got to be where he is today? Have you taken a product and done a double blind study to show that it contains everything that is on the label? The Youngevity products are what they say they are and you are getting a quality product. Have you listened to his radio shows or listened to his very lengthy lectures? I have. I worked in the medical field in the lab for almost 30 years and do alot of research before I jump on any wagon. the Youngevity wagon is a hard one to jump off of….it’s health and health has a price tag just like anything else. I paid $10. to join 20 years ago…I haven’t paid anything since except for my products. I have compared products to other products and they just don’t compare to Youngevity products….the price is very reasonable! I haven’t done the MLM part because I just like taking the product and I do tell others…but people would rather go to Walmart and get One A Day than to invest in their health. People my age have a baggie full of pill bottle…I don’t…I am active and my health is good….and I look forward to my daily does of health from Youngevity…every single day.
You feel the life coming into you from taking a vitamin? That doesn’t make any sense.
It’s been scientifically proven for years that people get plenty of nutrients and supplements don’t work.
I think I did a pretty fair comparison in this article, and I don’t know how you can say the price is reasonable.
Teresa said: “I can tell you from experience that it’s the only product that you can actually feel working…you feel the life come into every cell of your body as you provide nutrients that your body has not had for years.”
That’s an absurd statement. You cannot feel “life come into” the cells of your body. You may as well be claiming that you have ESP; it would be no less absurd.
Teresa said: “If you want to continue to take One A Day vitamins thinking that you are doing a good thing for your body….then be my guest but your body can’t and won’t break it down….so you get nothing from there…”
More absurd misinformation! The notion that nutrients in a vitamin pill aren’t routinely absorbed is nonsense.
Teresa said: “Dr. Wallach was a veterinarian and a darn good one at that….he furthered his studies to help people.”
He may have been a veterinarian but I see no evidence that he was a “darn good” one, nor would skills as a veterinarian qualify him to diagnose or treat human illnesses. I also see no evidence that he ever did any studies of any kind in humans. Pulling random statements out of yer arse like that is foolish and deceptive.
Teresa said: “You need 90- essential nutrients every single day…90!”
Not true. You even got that trivial detail wrong. That’s Youngevity marketing BS; nothing more; and it has nothing to do with the value, or lack thereof, of Youngevity’s BS rip-off products.
Teresa said: “Have you sat down and went through Dr. Wallachs literature”
Yes, I have; in greater detail than you ever will – and a more laughable pile of worthless BS would be hard to imagine.
Teresa said: “Have you listened to his radio shows or listened to his very lengthy lectures?”
Again, yes. See comment above.
Teresa said: “I worked in the medical field in the lab for almost 30 years”
Funny! People who have significant jobs in “the medical field” don’t say that they work “in the medical field”. They say that they are a nurse, a doctor, an orderly, a medical receptionist, etc.. The only people who say vaguely that they are in “the medical field” are those who lack legitimate medical credentials but pretend otherwise.
Teresa said: “Youngevity wagon is a hard one to jump off of”
Au contraire! One would have to be a gullible sucker, a desperado and/or an MLM predator to jump on Youngevity’s wagon.
Teresa said: “I have compared products to other products and they just don’t compare to Youngevity products….the price is very reasonable!”
You may as well be saying that you arbitrarily came to the conclusion that gravity doesn’t exist. Show us your calculations! We have done multiple comparisons and Youngevity’s products come out looking like a sick joke. Their insanely deceptive error-ridden anti-scientific fear-mongering marketing BS is the icing on the cake.
I’ve done my research on Dr. Joel Wallach. I believe that you can’t place judgment until you really investigate his background and his research. Not to mention the history of nutrition, the biology, physiology of the body and the formation of the American Medical Association (this is a revelation to most because it was formed by elitist). If more people would do extensive research rather than to believe all they read and hear they would be better equipped to making their own decisions and with contentment and without argument. The formulations of Youngevity’s products are of high quality and are loaded with much nutrients. Not all supplements are alike. For instance, in the Youngevity EFA Omega, nitrogen is injected into the capsule to avoid the oils from becoming rancid. Oils do go rancid and when this happens it sticks to arteries. There are only a very few Omega oil supplements out on the market that do inject nitrogen. I can go into this in further depth on supplement quality, but I don’t have the time. All I ask is that you continue to do an extensive research on nutrition and what the body requires to sustain life on a daily basis to its optimum level. I’ve been working in the medical field for 20+ years at hospitals and different facilities. The many doctor’s that I’ve worked with are licensed M.D.’s and I can tell you with much truth, there have been a few that indeed were quacks! And, they still continue to practice. Sometimes they are suspended for a short time, but back to practicing all over again and practicing the same evil. Yet, naturopathic doctor’s get such a bad rap. Why? Because they believe that the body has his own healing process and they try to avoid the unnecessary use of certain medications that toxify the body even more? We all know that medications only mask the core of the problem. In the event of an emergency, medications to survive may be needed, and that’s perfectly reasonable. Granted, there are quacks, but to sling that derogatory word at naturopathic doctor’s is not fair. They truly believe and are passionate in their field. They are not ignorant, or uneducated. They too, have to go through extensive and rigorous education. I believe M.D.’s and N.D.’s can benefit from each other, but that’s just my opinion. With all that being said .. back to work for me.
It’s great for you to say that you’ve done research, but you haven’t provided any of that research here. I have presented my research in the article. You are asking us to believe your “research” when it could very come from a founder of the company writing under a pseudonym.
In short, you provide no proof, just trust me. I have provided information from authoritative sources.
I love how the people who claim to have done research don’t understand the concept of a paragraph.
You know that MLM companies contract 3rd party manufacturers to make the supplements, right? It’s not some kind of magic or anything unique to the companies.
We have no evidence to the validity of you working at hospitals or that those things with doctors are true. It’s called using anecdotal fallacy. For the most part, doctors who have a dozen or more years of advanced education are not quacks.
Naturopathic doctors get a “bad rap” because they aren’t really doctors and haven’t gone to 12 years of medical school. It isn’t extensive at all in comparison. Remember naturopathy is widely the same as quackery. You might find a few “flat earthers” who think differently, but it’s not a broad opinion.
The body does not always heal itself. This is a great lie that all the naturopaths tell. How does the body heal Alzheimer’s? If I break my arm, but don’t go to the hospital to have it set will the body it? Some of the body’s systems can help it heal over time, but it isn’t everything… and most importantly for this discussion, supplements don’t come into play at all.
It’s great to be passionate about something. I’m passionate about watching my football team. It doesn’t make me qualified to coach them.
Laurenia Steele (Youngevity shill using a clearly fake name) said: “I’ve done my research on Dr. Joel Wallach. I believe that you can’t place judgment until you really investigate his background and his research.”
You must be joking. A more mundane and unimpressive resume would be hard to find. A veterinarian who hasn’t practiced veterinary medicine in at least four decades; an unaccomplished hack who got a certificate in naturopathy and spent all his time since lying about how his moronic low-grade dietary supplements like Tangy Tangerine miraculously cure everything.
It should be pointed out however that even if his resume were sterling, it still would have no bearing on the fact that Youngevity’s products are laughably worthless garbage being used to front a hopelessly corrupt pyramid scheme.
Laurenia Steele said: “…Not to mention the history of nutrition, the biology, physiology of the body and the formation of the American Medical Association.”
What a moronic dodge that was. One need know nothing at all about any of those things to pass judgement on Youngevity and instantly recognize it as a scam of epic proportions. BTW, there’s a place where people go to learn all that stuff – it’s called medical school — a place that you and Wallach have never been anywhere near.
Laurenia Steele said: “If more people would do extensive research rather than to believe all they read and hear they would be better equipped to making their own decisions.”
I have done more research on Youngevity than you ever will, and under every rock I turned over, something slimy and revolting came slithering out. Again, what you have here is a pyramid scheme and a worthless product being hyped as a miracle cure by a jackass charlatan and his cohort of simpering toadies.
Laurenia Steele said: “I can go into this in further depth on supplement quality, but I don’t have the time.”
But going into further depth is the only reason for commenting! You’re basically arguing that everyone who criticizes these jackass criminals is wrong because you did invisible research that you refuse to share because you’re too busy! You’re every bit as ridiculous as everyone else who has ever whored themselves for this embarrassing fart-joke of a company.
Laurenia Steele said: “I’ve been working in the medical field for 20+ years at hospitals and different facilities.”
Do you know who says that kind of thing? Liars! At best, you may have swept floors or answered phones at a clinic once upon a time but now here you are pretending that you have expertise in medicine when you clearly don’t. Posturing like that is cringe-worthy.
Laurenia Steele said: “The many doctor’s that I’ve worked with are licensed M.D.’s and I can tell you with much truth, there have been a few that indeed were quacks! And, they still continue to practice.”
Let’s just be straight up here OK. You know NOTHING about medicine and have no expertise in the field whatsoever. Stop pretending. You’re just embarrassing yourself and Youngevity even further.
Laurenia Steele said: “Yet, naturopathic doctor’s get such a bad rap. Why?”
Because, like you, they pretend to be medical experts and use whatever scant credibility they may appear to have to sell people things that are at best worthless and at worst downright dangerous.
Laurenia Steele said: “We all know that medications only mask the core of the problem.”
It depends on the medication, but one things that’s clear – you know nothing but how to be a dishonest disgraceful shill for an embarrassment of a company that should have been shut down long ago.
Laurenia Steele said: “Granted, there are quacks, but to sling that derogatory word at naturopathic doctor’s is not fair.”
Slinging it a Wallach and Glidden is entirely fair. Two ne’er-do-wells more deserving of being called “quack” would be hard to find. Let’s be 100% clear – these a-holes are telling people that Tangy Tangerine will miraculously cure a plethora of diseases; they are bilking little old ladies for their cancer money. These creeps deserve to be marched down main street in dunce caps while being pelted with rocks; but I’d settle for seeing them fined into oblivion and jailed.
Laurenia Steele said: “With all that being said .. back to work for me.”
Work??? ROFL. Is that the term you use to describe dialing up distant acquaintances to lure them into a pyramid scheme centered around a supplement scam run by predatory creeps and liars. Eesh, how do you look in the mirror and not throw up or cry.
Lazy Man,
You are CLEARLY one of those “settled science” people who’s never had a though of his own, nor cares to because – you don’t need to. “The science is settled.”
And then you bring up closed mindedness is such a way that you’re claiming to be the open minded one, while people are telling you their stories that contradict your proclamation of settled science.
Maybe your settled science isn’t as settled as you think.
Ninja97. You are wrong. I’ve been very, very open-minded to new scientifically proven information. The problem is that non has been forthcoming with the topic of supplements and vitamins after decades and decades and literally hundreds of thousands of studies.
The problem of people telling “contradictory” stories is that they aren’t science to the contrary. They are explained by a scientifically-proven concept called The Placebo Effect that has been known for centuries. Scientists have had a process in place for probably well over a hundred years that has been replicated millions of times called a blinded placebo control study. (It gets more advanced than this, but I’m simplifying things here). If the science isn’t settled, there’s a very easy process to show whether there is true cause and effect.
You simply have proven my point that the science is settled. Of course, you would know all of this if you had an 8th graders’ knowledge of how science is conducted.
He gets paid by big pharma to bash these companies.
[Editor’s Response: Nope, Big Pharma has never paid me a dime. They haven’t even offered me a dime. I explained why I have written about MLM hundreds of times before.]
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/
That is just one article right off the bat….our soils have been stripped of nutrients …we get very little…if you don’t supplement your body will break down faster and if you take medicine…there goes your liver, etc etc Yes! You can feel these nutrients…you feel the energy, your mind gets clearer…you don’;t have that brain fog, fatigue is lifted….if you haven’t taken them for 90 days yourself then you can’t judge something you haven’t experienced for yourself. Being a MLM company is beside the point… Youngevity has proven itself over and over again with many many people who have experienced the difference in their own lives.
Did you read the article? I covered that specific article.
Being an MLM company is not besides the point. If you read the article, it’s kind of a core thing, I think. However, you are entitled to your own opinion of the article.
Teresa said: “That is just one article right off the bat….our soils have been stripped of nutrients … https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/ ”
Don’t believe everything you read. Neither of the two authors (Roddy Scheer and Doug Moss) of that blog/editorial in Scientific American are scientists, and apparently they didn’t even read the studies they cited. Case in point — they stated the following:
“The main culprit in this disturbing nutritional trend is soil depletion”
They then cited this study as their proof:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15637215
However, that study didn’t measure nutrient levels in soil, and they came to the conclusion that any declines in nutrient content were due to changes in the strains/varieties of fruits and vegetables cultivated in 1999 vs 1950. It had NOTHING to do with soil nutrient depletion. In fact they directly refuted the notion of soil nutrient depletion as a contributing factor. The study’s conclusion, which you and the authors of that Scientific American editorial article apparently never bothered to read, makes it abundantly clear:
“We suggest that any real declines are generally most easily explained by changes in cultivated varieties between 1950 and 1999, in which there may be trade-offs between yield and nutrient content.”
“Factors other than soil mineral concentrations seem to have primary control of food mineral contents for the foods and minerals studied here.”
This disconnect from reality is what happens when unqualified hacks try to interpret scientific research for the popular press. Heaven help anyone gullible enough to listen to a self-serving idiot like Wallach, or worse still, one of the Youngevity minions who bombard blogs like this with BS. You should be embarrassed for being so stridently ignorant.
However, you do get paid as a blogger.
[Editor’s response: There are literally thousands of personal finance bloggers who make money from advertising. If someone got paid for writing a book, you could say, “However, you do get as an author.” In other unsurprising and useless news, I was also born with two eyes, a nose, and a mouth.]
Besides, we have no proof that Big Pharma isn’t paying you.
[Editor’s response: You also have no proof that I’m not a time-traveling space octopus from the planet Kalmar. This article isn’t about Big Pharma or anything related to them, so it wouldn’t make sense that they’d pay me. I’m also not paid by Big Circus.]
By-the-way, I didn’t even bother reading the rest of your reply. You appear to be a whiner. Your responses of your “research” are clearly one-sided. I don’t believe you either.
[Editor’s response: You spent a lot of time commenting on something that you didn’t read, and made an opinion about what I appear to be when you didn’t read it. It isn’t surprising to find one’s opinions against MLM scams as “one-sided”, but I’d like to say that I’m on the side of the of the FTC’s which protects consumers. You are welcome to not believe me, but since you can’t be bothered to read what I write, it’s a pretty empty belief.]
Your not an M.D., nor are you licensed to even comment.
[Editor’s response: I don’t think anyone can be licensed to write blog comments.]
For myself, I’m giving my opinion on what I do know, whether I’m credible or not is irrelevant. This is not my show.
[Editor’s response: If you are not credible, then no one should value your opinion. I have given my opinion and stated the logic, math, and citations with it. Even if people think I’m not credible, they can look at the logic, math, and citations and make their own determination. Remember, that 2 + 2 = 4 is true even if a Space Octopus says it.]
Like I explained to you before, I don’t have time to cite. That’s your job, not mine.
[Editor’s response: You get to assign me the homework of trying to find a needle in a haystack when the evidence shows that there was never a needle in the first place. Everyone must support their own claims. If you don’t have time to cite, you shouldn’t be making claims.]
I’m not even here to convince you. You do an extremely poor job of responding and very unprofessional. You create the negativity to gain more responses.
[Editor’s response: I have always responded respectfully and professionally. Maybe you are referring to Vogel who is a reader of this blog just like you and many of the other commenters here.]
The more responses, the more you get paid.
[Editor’s response: This is true, but we are talking literally pennies. I have around 2500 articles.]
Isn’t that what your purpose for being here?
[Editor’s response: No, it isn’t. Maybe you should read the article again, if the purpose wasn’t obvious to you.]
Quite frankly, I’m sure no one really cares what your opinion is.
[Editor’s response: I’m not sure you speak for all the readers of my blog. If that’s true, no one is reading this and commenting, right?]
Do your homework if you want to be taken seriously. You’re a shame to your field.
[Editor’s response: I did my homework and cited it in article.]
You’re paranoid that everyone who credits Dr. Wallace or Youngevity is a distributor. And? What if they are? What is your point? Your assumptions is plain stupid with no substance whatsoever.
[Editor’s response: Can you find anyone who credits Wallace or Youngevity that ISN’T a distributor or paid by the company? Surely, USA Today, CNN, Washington Post, or something like that credits them, right? Nope.]
This has to be the worse blog I’ve ever commented on.
[Editor’s response: You haven’t provided any reason for this being a bad blog other than your own deficiencies of not bothering to read, not taking the time cite, etc.]
I really don’t believe anyone is convincing you to use Youngevity products.
[Editor’s response: That is probably the only correct statement you’ve made in your comment.]
In your arrogance you lost track that this isn’t about you.
[Editor’s response: I never said it is about me. My article is about Youngevity. You are the one trying to attack my credibility and making it about me.]
You’re not doing anyone a favor. Do what you want. No one is going to quit supplementing because you say so. You’re wasting your time buddy But, I’ll leave you with this tidbit..
[Editor’s response: They shouldn’t quit supplementing because I say so. They should quit because scientists who do the research have concluded it time and time again to the point when they are flabbergasted to saying “Enough is Enough!”. So don’t listen to me, listen to those scientists who have piled through dozens, maybe hundreds, of unrelated supplement studies.]
(thewallacefiles.com)
Take a 300 mg. capsule of magnesium .. it’ll help calm you down. It works wonders! Have a pleasant day Lazy Guy. Over and out! Not returning. Unbeneficial and waste of time. I’m off to watch YouTube and more of Dr. Joel Wallace. Dr. Peter Glidden, Dr. Berg, Dr. Axe, Pharmacist Ben Fuchs .. and the list goes on …
Laurenia said: “Besides, we have no proof that Big Pharma isn’t paying you.”
There’s also no proof that Big Pharma is paying him (just like there’s no proof that you’re not a member of Al Qaeda), but that doesn’t stop you from making moronic accusations anyway. Can your mind really be so dysfunctional as to believe that the world really works like that – i.e., that “Big Pharma” pays finance bloggers to say disparaging things about Youngevity – or is that just the best story you can come up with to fool the people who you’re trying to rope into your dumb F-ing scam? Either way, you’re an embarrassment to the human race.
Laurenia said: “Your not an M.D., nor are you licensed to even comment.”
(1) Learn how to spell “you’re”; (2) no MD license is required to comment here, obviously; (3) your idiocy is painful to witness.
Laurenia said: “For myself, I’m giving my opinion on what I do know, whether I’m credible or not is irrelevant. This is not my show.”
Good that you don’t mind the irrelevance because you couldn’t possibly less credible, nor your opinion less worthless.
Laurenia said: “Like I explained to you before, I don’t have time to cite. That’s your job, not mine.”
Of course you do! Your time is about as close to valueless as it could possibly be. Your commission for trying to hawk Youngevity’s crap supplements/pyramid scheme can’t be more than pennies an hour, if that. You spew a few baseless ridiculously slanted opinions, back it up with nothing, get huffy, and then call it a day. You’re like the human version of a puss-filled abscess.
Laurenia said: “You’re paranoid that everyone who credits Dr. Wallace or Youngevity is a distributor. And? What if they are? What is your point?”
Well if they are distributors then he’s not paranoid – isn’t that the point? I’ll add a second point that anyone who “credits” that ridiculous charlatan Wallace – for anything — is also a bloody fool.
Laurenia said: “No one is going to quit supplementing because you say so. You’re wasting your time buddy.”
Don’t be so sure. This site must be bad for your illicit business operation or you wouldn’t be stomping around so indignantly. Might not be enough to get through to the handful of “true believers” in this scam, but they are as rare as unicorns. The more likely scenario is that the people you try to con end up visiting this site, which ends up confirming their worst suspicions and leads them to slam the door in your face.
Laurenia said: “Over and out! Not returning. Unbeneficial and waste of time. I’m off to watch YouTube and more of Dr. Joel Wallace. Dr. Peter Glidden…”
Thank you! Your presence will not be missed. You may now go back to masturbating (mentally or otherwise) to your favorite Youngevity quack videos on YouTube. How pathetic.
BTW, you posted your reply on the wrong thread. Not at all surprising that a Youngevity distributor can’t even figure out something so basic. Explains why you carry water for the devil for pennies an hour.
Exactly! I am a pharmacy technician so it’s almost embarrassing to say that Pharmaceuticals or the distribution of pharmaceuticals pay my bills. I’m not a representative of youngevity nor would I ever be simply because what youngevity has done for me and my recovery from a pharmaceutical brain injury that happened in a 3-month very short time. (I want people to believe my testimony and how great it has been for me. If I were being paid people would be less likely to believe me.) 3 years later I’m still attempting to recover from it. youngevity has given me hope that maybe I will be normal again. I cannot function without youngevity. if I go more than two days without taking my vitamin pack it in the morning, I find myself crying about everything and unable to think clearly. The pharmaceutical Topiramate, the generic for Topamax cause me to have every single one of the side effects except for two. I was taking just 50 mg twice a day for three months. It nearly killed me. I still suffer with a lot of the issues described as a side effect even 3 years after discontinuing it.
It’s funny how the guy who wrote this article has never taken it. Ask people who won’t take anything else and don’t get a dime for it. The people who are not paid by the company and who actually take it are the people that should be. I do not listen the people who are paid to give their opinion. This is exactly why I don’t believe all the “climate change” people. They are paid to cause panic. All the scientists who say the climate change nonsense. are not being paid for that opinion. That’s making their opinion far more valuable then those who are paid to give it and I feel that expertise. Money makes people lie.
Since we can’t tell any of the following things:
1. If you are a Youngevity distributor
2. If you ever had a brain injury
3. If you have some kind of placebo effect
it is kind of silly to claim that you don’t want to be distributor so that people will believe you. If you want to be believable, upload your doctor’s medical diagnosis and certification that Youngevity has been a core part of his treatment plan. Then we can at least validate what is going on.
I don’t know what to tell you about climate change. We’ve got something like 100+ countries that agree about it and objective measurements are universally agreed upon. The people who deny climate change are the largest polluters because that’s an unfortunate result of how they make money.
Heather Burrows said: “I do not listen the people who are paid to give their opinion. This is exactly why I don’t believe all the “climate change” people. They are paid to cause panic. All the scientists who say the climate change nonsense. are not being paid for that opinion. That’s making their opinion far more valuable then those who are paid to give it and I feel that expertise. Money makes people lie.”
I’m reluctant to further derail the discussion with a tangent about climate change but that erroneous statement should not go uncorrected. It’s one thing to express the opinion that you don’t believe in climate change, but it is an egregious misstatement of fact to say that climate change deniers don’t get paid. The money trail linking the fossil fuel industry (and the brothers Koch) to climate change deniers has been amply documented and is an incontrovertible fact. Without that money polluting the well, climate change denial wouldn’t exist, or would be relegated to the far fringes where flat-Earthers dwell.
Heather Burrows said: “…my recovery from a pharmaceutical brain injury…(I want people to believe my testimony and how great it has been for me. If I were being paid people would be less likely to believe me.)…youngevity has given me hope that maybe I will be normal again. I cannot function without youngevity…my vitamin pack…”
I won’t dispute the claim that you suffered brain injury; it’s the part about recovering (and attributing it to Youngevity vitamin packs) that’s hard to swallow.
My red flag is that he is a veterinarian. My dog got killed by a veterinarian, he prescribed a poisonous drug :Apoquel Oclacitinib, this drug causes new subcutaneous and cutaneous tumors, stomach enlargement, death, look it up on drugs.com , veterinarians are greedy and want to make money using unethical methods. I would not trust this man.
The only legitimate concern with Wallach being a veterinarian is that he isn’t educated or qualified in the practice of medicine in humans. There’s no basis for issuing a blanket condemnation of all veterinarians. Homeopathy on the other hand (Wallach’s other ‘certification’) is a different story – a quack-fest! Wallach is bottom feeder to be sure.
Any veterinarian or MD will kill you if you give them half the chance…you are responsible to be aware of what is going into your body as well as your pets. I was in the lab and used to draw people’s blood and was amazed that doctors would want peoples cholesterol under 100 …what?????? Your brain is almost all cholesterol…so where to you think Alzheimer disease comes from…yep you guess it….limiting the cholesterol in your brain. I worked in a hospital for alot of years….as well as with doctors…I saw Big Pharma in action many many times…it’s a game and you are the guinea pig. You have to be pro-active in your life as well as your pets!
My aunt is a veterinarian and I’m very sure she won’t kill you or anyone else. I know a couple of MDs and I don’t think they are the type to murder people either.
Sounds like you solved Alzheimers by encouraging everyone to get the highest cholesterol possible. I sure wouldn’t want to be the guinea pig in your experiment.
How many years of medical school did you go to? Which school was it? What degree did you get, again? Can we please see your transcripts?
I certainly enjoyed the read, thank you for your information
Actually there is proof for liquid forms absorbing more, if there wasn’t we wouldn’t have needed a colloidal form of vitamins in the first place and even places like big pharma suggest those
Where is that proof again? Please send a link to your source Zachary.
Youngevity liquid calcium is 98% available to the body… people go to Walgreen everyday and buy a 1000mg Caltrate and will be lucky to get 2% of that….your body can’t use it…and then they wonder why they still have brittle bones, etc. Here’s a tip…if you get twitches in your eye lids, charly horse in your calf in the middle of the night…or those dreaded kidney stones…your body is telling you…your calcium is low. You’re right Zachary…. as Dr. Wallach states in his scientific finding…..
http://thewallachfiles.com/mineral-absorption-and-deficiency/
Actually, there’s a section of my article that covers this. It’s called, “Absorption of Youngevity.”
It’s probably best that you don’t quote Wallach’s information here, because he seems to claim things that are simply not true.
Are you going to quote legitimate scientific studies in peer reviewed journals or are you going to quote the salesman as gospel?
[Editor’s Note: I’m responding to this comment in-line.]
I’m a 28 year old Apple Software Technician and independent stock broker who first started buying Youngevity products from my friend directly who was ordering mass amounts.
[Editor’s Response: I’m a 41 year old software engineer who Facebook flew across the country to interview to head up their mobile division in 2006. Is that of value here? Not sure why you’d want to be an independent stock broker in an era of free trades. Finally, your friend “ordering mass amounts” might point to what is called “inventory loading” in pyramid schemes.]
It started with just Tangy Tangerine and Minerals here and there. He eventually explained I could get it cheaper directly by ordering it and getting it shipped for free with auto ship, I then began ordering the Healthy Body Start Pack (Tangy, Calcium, EFAs) which hits 100QV (minimum required to get residuals from other customers).
[Editor’s Response: Well if you are paying a 300% premium or more, it’s easy for a company to offer a cheap discount and free shipping. It doesn’t take an “independent stock broker” to tell you that getting a free commissions on a share of $400 Apple stock isn’t a good deal. Apple stock trades at around $142 now.]
He was doing this full time and eventually started putting new sign ups and customers under me essentially handing me residual income.
[Editor’s Response: This sounds illegal to me. The FTC seems to say clearly that you have to make sales yourself. Earning a residual income from recruiting is one of the FTC’s signs of a pyramid scheme (https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/multilevel-marketing). Having someone above you game the recruiting looks much, much worse in my opinion.]
Eventually I had enough people under me that my monthly commission cheques from Youngevity exceeded the amount I was spending on supplements. Thats when it really started, my natural faith in the product based on results, mixed with his generosity and the way the compensation plan works, now has me for life because its now completely self sustaining.
[Editor’s Response: So it sounds to me that you got enough fraudulent money (using the FTC’s analysis) that it impaired your ability to have an unbiased view of the products. Nothing in MLM is “self sustaining.” Ten years ago people in MonaVie said the same thing. Today their MonaVie business is just about zero. People in Vemma said similar things and their business is just about zero too. It doesn’t seem that you are actively selling the product as required by the FTC to be legitimate.]
This is mainly to give insight to people, that this can be for everyone.
[Editor’s Response: The experience you explained was a person above you giving you “new sign-ups and customers.” By every explanation I’ve ever seen of a pyramid scheme, not “everyone” can receive new sign-ups (plural) and customers (in addition to sign-ups). The world runs out of people. Pragmatically, the number of people to “sign-up” is already maxed out because many people aren’t interested in selling overpriced products.]
Sure the products may be more expensive than others, but the quality is there.
[Editor’s Response: Please scientifically show that the quality is better. I recommend using industry standards such as USP as I wrote about in the article.]
Even though I now don’t pay for then, going in, I was fully willing and ready to pay full cost, having faith it would benefit me long term.
[Editor’s Response: Faith is great, but it isn’t a definition of quality. Science seems to indicate that your “faith” in supplements is misplaced. You’d have much more difficult time showing that people should spend more without the FDA or similar unbiased scientific body behind it.]
I now don’t pay for supplements at all, and if I choose can invest time into getting more customers. My friend isn’t just handing me customers anymore, because his goal was to just give me something self sustaining, but he’s now created a very large network using this model of rewarding faithful distributors this way.
[Editor’s Response: Good job not paying for supplements… because You should Stop Wasting Money on Vitamins and Mineral Supplements. Sorry to hit you with science journals. It seems to me like you are saying that you aren’t paying for your pet rock anymore. That’s cool for you, but why should we care?]
Comparing Youngevity and its products to buying cheaper supplements on Amazon is simply not something you can do..
[Editor’s Response: Why not? Is it because supplements on Amazon don’t pay you a residual income?]
Youngevity has quality…the proof is in the pudding…. the Editor needs to eat the pudding to make a valid arguement!
Actually, the nutritional label gives all the information we need. If I told you the proof is in Wonder Bread and you need to eat it to understand, you could easily say, “But we know what’s in Wonder Bread and it simply doesn’t make sense that it would do anything.” It’s the same thing here.
We don’t ask someone to jump off the bridge to prove that gravity exists. If you want to make a valid argument, show me the published, peer-reviewed studies on Youngevity. Even the Clemson debacle got exposed making a laughing stock of the company.
Lazy Man,
With any other “miracle vitamin” or miracle this or miracle that scam out there, you will always find people jumping in to give their testimonial about how they tried it and it didn’t work and it’s a big scam.
But time and time again, all I see is Youngevity users defending the products, and there is ALMOST zero testimonials of EX-users saying it’s “bunk.”
If you were are right as you firmly believe you are, there would be a bunch of people backing up your claims with anecdotal evidence.
Where are they?
Truly yours,
Ninja97
It’s called MLM and the placebo effect. There are actually a lot of people in this thread of comments (and other MLM products) who say that the products are bunk and don’t work. However, their voices are drowned out by the people paid to promote that it does work.
You can see what happened when Vemma juice went off MLM after being sued by the FTC. All the people paid to promote that it worked disappeared and the company went out of business. They didn’t even buy the product any more.
Keep in mind that there’s no expectation that it *should* work. How many articles do you see claiming that Centrum doesn’t work? There are probably a couple out there, but I don’t see much of it. It’s like being surprised that a penguin can’t juggle. Most people are a little too busy in their daily lives to waste their time writing about such common sense.
There are a few of us out there, notably Truth in Advertising who have noted thousands of illegal testimonials on MLM products – https://www.truthinadvertising.org/dsa-ignoring-illegal-health-claims/. Please note that Youngevity is on that list.
Lazy Man,
I read your response, and clicked on your link. I did not find Youngevity anywhere on the page. So after studying it thoroughly, I decided that maybe you meant to send THIS link: http://www.truthinadvertising.org/mlm-health-claims-database which does appear on the page of the link you sent.
So, exploring further, I found that link did indeed have a very comprehensive list of products. I was very shocked at some of the companies on that list. The list includes well known brands such as, Herbalife, Amway, and Young Living. There are people in my church who promote Young Living and totally believe in it.
Please note that Youngevity is NOT on that list.
Sincerely,
Ninja97
Youngevity was in the image on the page that I linked to. I wanted to provide the page for more context about the scams of these MLM companies.
Some of the brands that you mentioned (Amway and Herbalife) have settled lawsuits for hundreds of millions of dollars rather than go to trial and take (very likely) chance that they are illegal pyramid schemes. It’s hard to find other companies that are willing to volunteer to pay that kind of money. I can’t think of another one off the top of my head.
To understand why the people who promote Young Living (or any MLM product) total believe in it, you have to have a little background in human psychology. I’ve outlined it here and doctors have endorsed: https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/no-your-mlm-health-product-does-not-work/.
Here are the Truth in Advertising articles you should read about Youngevity:
– https://www.truthinadvertising.org/what-you-should-know-about-youngevity/
– https://www.truthinadvertising.org/youngevity-income-claims-database/
– https://www.truthinadvertising.org/youngevity-health-claims-database/
You know what really bothers me… I’m poor and spend the last of my money on my dogs because I love them. I wish there was a clear choice of a good product that would truly help my kids be more healthy through the short life they have without worrying that I may be harming them by trying to help them. I bought the youngevity pet vitamins and minerals for them with my last 120.00 it’s a shame we all live in a world driven by money and greed. :(
There certainly is some profit in the business – several of the Board Directors get paid in the mid to high six figures
http://gracinmarlow.com/AL_INTERNATIONAL,_INC._1012GA_20130423.pdf
Richard James: “There certainly is some profit in the business – several of the Board Directors get paid in the mid to high six figures.”
The Wallach’s aren’t just BOD members; they are the founders and owners of the company. Of course they’re going to get paid richly. That’s the scam’s raison d’etre. The Wallach’s reaping absurd sums of money is also the very reason why 90%+ of distributors walk away with nothing. No one ever said that fraud/deception doesn’t pay well.
[Editor’s note: I’m responding in-line to this comment]
First, let’s clear this up.
[Editor’s response: After 1300+ comments I’m not sure you can “clear this up”, but let’s go! :-)]
Youngevity distributors are some of the best paid in all of MLM.
[Editor’s response: Research shows that more than 99% of MLM “distributors” LOSE money. A 12 year old is literally better paid as a baby sitter than those who waste their time in MLM]
They immediately get other new distributors placed under them. Meaning they get commissions right of, without having signed anyone up. That in turns can translate into them getting their orders for free, as they can receive a commission big enough to cover what they pay.
[Editor’s response: That is one of the most clear definitions of a pyramid scheme that I’ve ever seen. That’s not showing how product is sold.]
Second, the Tangy Tangerine is a crystal powder product that you mix your water. By being a powder it has maximum absorption by your body. The pills, often times, don’t even fully desolve in your body. What good is it, if the bill just passes straight through you? Tangy Tangerine is a much superior product.
[Editor’s response: If this is your concern, you could crush a pill into a powder. I think science shows that stomach acids will do the job.]
How many Yougevity users have be bombarded with robo calls as I have?
“This is a call like no other . . . would you like to make 5 figures a week?
Informative take on the company from a former distributor. The details are pretty horrific.
http://bernadettetrafton.com/2016/02/25/why-did-i-leave-youngevity/
Interesting. A 2016 cease and desist order against Youngevity from the Securities and Insurance Office of the Montana State Auditor. The order includes multiple fines and bars the company from doing business and trading stock in Montana.
http://csimt.gov/wp-content/uploads/SEC-2015-205-Youngevity-Not-of-Ag-Act.pdf
There was a great piece on HBO about Alex Jones and how he sells supplements last night. It’s good viewing for anyone who is interested in Youngevity as Jones has come up in the thread before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGq6cjcc3Q
I was buying a 3.00 can of energy drink nightly just to stay awake during my night shift. I buy Tangy Tangerine just for these benefits alone at nearly the same cost and it’s more effective. Now, if there really are health benefits to taking this drink, then so be it, that’s an added bonus imo
How much caffeine is in Tangy Tangerine? It’s been a long time since I looked at it. If it doesn’t have caffeine then it’s comparing apples and transmissions.
Also, why would pay $3 for a can of energy drink? I’ve got you covered – https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/save-money-on-energy-drinks-and-caffeine/
You should look at this too: https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/price-caffeine/
You’re welcome!
Homeostasis is the condition of all the bodies systems in balance. To say that the factory farms in this country don’t had that bad of a played out mineral depleted soil is minimizing a condition that over time can degrade trace mineral needs and over time can manifest in the body as negative health effects. It’s called cause and affect. The problem is, there is an absence of interest in this field of research there simply is no money available for this cause and the past studies done are woefully lacking in their scope. When British sailors were getting scurvy back in the 1700’s they had no idea the root cause was a vitamin C deficiency. That’s only one case take the case for rickets a mineral deficiency or gout an iodine deficiency. All proven documented scientific fact. I think it is unwise to dismiss mineral deficiencies off hand. I think we could all agree that more in depth independent controlled studies should be done, there is no doubt about that, knowledge is power you can never have too much of vetted factual statistical data that has true integrity.
Scientists are a little more advanced than they were in the 1700’s when we figured out the vitamin C deficiency. They didn’t need telephones, crazy flying machines, or vacuum tubes to figure that out. You are literally comparing knowledge of a time when horse were the transportation to smart phones calling autonomous driving robot vehicles (technology that works, even if it isn’t in our daily life).
They didn’t know what DNA was back in the years that you talk about and we have sequenced now and are able to make CRISPR babies.
In other words, all mineral deficiency diseases like scurvy and rickets have been found long ago and they are very rare today. In cases where they show up, it is due to human problems, not lack of scientific knowledge.
The only reason I’m answering is because you are so full of misguided misinformation and it makes me mad listening to people like you… to begin with big Pharma, doctors and scientists are bought and paid for it…so of course they are going to support them they get their paychecks from them and that’s all they really care about.. this is a proven fact which you obviously don’t know about, most people.don t.. there has been plenty of research data on natural remedies for longer than big Pharma has been around and people have been helped and cured… this has been going on for thousands of years… big Pharma has been trying to discredit natural remedies for years for the sole reason that they want to make money on their toxic chemicals that about kill a person it’s amazing anybody lives and their quality of life is usually very poor and their life span is not extended much and their suffering the whole time… it’s amazing the human body can survive their treatments but it is an amazing Creation… the cells in the body are made up of vitamins minerals amino acids Etc… when you get sick your body is lacking these materials.. and it will heal itself when they are replenished… your body is not locking chemotherapy because it is not in its program or any other other toxic life-threatening methods… there is a method called Iridology, created by Dr. Bernard Jenson. you can see everything that’s wrong with the body in the eyes and at what stage of deterioration that particular area is at… it’s like the hands of a clock between 11 and 1 oclock is the brain area… one section is your motor skills area, another is your balance area. etc… the rest of the clock shows the rest of the parts of the body… if you look at your eye you will see vertical dark areas… they start off gray but as you get sicker they turn darker even to black.. so you can start healing when they’re Gray… as you heal there will be white Criss-Cross lines in that dark area which means that area is actually healing and when it is done healing it will turn back to your original eye color… no ifs ands or maybes that you are healed..You Are Healed… usually by the time the doctors get you you are in the dark and very sick stage and yes it’s harder to heal at that time… I would rather work with the gray stage… as anyone with a brain would… so you can spend thousands of dollars trying to figure out what’s wrong using the doctor’s methods or you can ask your body and it will tell you the absolute truth… and ALOT quicker… big Pharma doesn’t want you to know this of course because they want all the money..that’s all they care about they want to keep you sick so they can keep having you spend money on their toxic methods.. how the body survives their methods is truly a miracle but it is an Amazing Creation… but you have to heal it the way it needs and wants… and that is with natural methods… another precise method of natural healing is muscle testing… your body will tell you exactly which product it wants, and I guarantee you that it is not with toxic chemicals, there is no way your body is lacking chemotherapy to heal itself because it doesn’t work right… and it will not pick the cheap poor quality products… it’ll tell you the correct dosage and how long to take that particular dosage and when that needs to be lowered it will tell you that too.. it will tell you all you need to know… or you could spend thousands of dollars for the doctors trying to figure out what they think is wrong and usually isn’t right… while they torture and maim your poor body and make it harder to heal ..if at all possible after they get done with you… you have to build up your immune system to heal… they destroy your immune system… How smart is that??? but you all believe that they are Gods because they told you they were.. they program you well…because most people are too lazy to research and find out the truth… and they want people to tell them what to do so that they don’t have to think or put energy into researching …people like you who don’t know anything about what your talking about because you listen to Big Pharma’s lies whose only object is to take your money for their foul products… and to get rid of the truth Sayers the ones with the real knowledge they discredit with their lies so that you will not listen to them and use their methods that actually work .. you are only supposed to follow their methods …and then you actually have the audacity to think that you have the knowledge to write about your stupidity on these subjects… you and big Pharma should be sued… and all the doctors and scientists who know nothing of natural healing because they have no data and if they have data they will lie about it anyway just like they do with their products… they actually or used to, tell you that their products have 15 bad side effects, but oh that’s okay because they get rid of the one problem that they are dealing with which is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard… that is totally impossible!!! It doesn’t even make any sense… their drug or whatever may kill off some disease or make it look like it’s gone, but it usually comes back… but in the meantime it will go to another spot in your body and manifest another disease there… because when you’re sick your whole body is sick… it’s all clogged up and not functioning properly.. that is why you heal the whole body you look in the eyes you see what area is disintegrating, and you heal all of those areas also and then the disease will actually be healed… yes you have to take supplements and good nutritional food for the rest of your life because that’s what it needs… you also have to heal on an emotional physical and spiritual level because all those areas need to be healed also… doctors don’t do this at all… how anybody with a brain could actually do what they say to do is so illogical also… and if you had researched Dr Joel Wallach you would know that when he was small boy he had Tourette’s syndrome.. all the doctors came up with the stupidest reasons and none of them worked.. so as a small boy of 11 maybe he went to the library and researched and found that it was a Calcium deficiency, of course it’s not just one thing… but that’s all the information that was available which was amazing they even printed that..he was fortunate enough to grow up on a farm, as he was feeding the chickens their food pellets, there is a tag on the bag that shows all the vitamins and minerals Etc that are in those pellets and one of them was calcium so he started eating the pellets and his Tourette Syndrome disappeared in 3 days…. so that was the beginning of his researching… he was a genius even back then… he’s 76 now and has never been sick… there were no naturopathic schools back then… so he went into all the animal husbandry projects and Veterinary courses they had back then for farm animals.. he went to college and expanded his field… He went to work in zoos he worked with Marlin Perkins for years.. the zoo animals got sicker a lot back then… he discovered what made them sick and it was all nutritional insufficiencies… he got them on good diets and they were healthy… since animals didn’t have insurance back then they wanted the method that would keep them healthy and this was it and they still follow it to this day… animals in captivity are the unhappiest and unhealthiest animals… I know I worked at a big Zoo… their confined in way too small cages and they are all psychotic, traumatized by strange humans that gawk and stare and say crazy things to them, how would you feel to never be able to run free outside again to breathe fresh air to feel the sun on your body Etc… dr. Joel Wallach wanted to help humans so he began his research on that and became a naturopathic doctor… to heal the people the way they REALLY need… I realize no one is always completely correct but you want to go with the proven facts and he has plenty of research on both animals and humans… so do quite a few natural Healers…. don’t forget to use full body massage to clear out all the clogged energy that is hindering healing the body, PT therapist only work on one small area of the body which doesn’t work well … a full body massage… you need a good organic nutritional diet.. you need to do allergy test on Foods that are making you sick, like wheat and oatmeal… And be on a gluten-free diet etc.. 80 to 90% of your the immune system is in your digestive tract so it has to be working properly. gluten tears up the lining of the digestion track so you can’t absorb anything and you have a malabsorption problem which is a big factor in being sick… these are all proven and researched facts… no doctor or scientist or American Cancer Society or all the other organizations you name will EVER tell you this because they have no research on it and they don’t know how to do the research tests correctly but the main reason is Big Pharma does not want you to know how to actually and really heal yourself.. their main objective is to make money on their horribly toxic drugs as long as they can… healing the body is a complex matter… so ALL your information that you have printed here is absolutely and totally false and there’s NOTHING you can say that will ever change that… so Wake up everybody, time is short….
Mary Jo Morra,
That’s quite a long comment. I got through the first quarter of it or so and you didn’t mention Youngevity at all. You know that the supplement industry is paid for just like all the claims you made about doctors. You know that they spend big money lobbying Congress so that they don’t have to show their products are effective with medical conditions, right?
Here’s the NY Times on the topic: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/06/opinion/the-politics-of-fraudulent-dietary-supplements.html
Here’s Time on the topic: http://time.com/3741142/gnc-vitamin-shoppe-supplements/
Here’s The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/food-as-medicine/521955/
So you lost a ton credibility being off-topic and pointing the finger at other unrelated entities instead of examining the topic or even the supplement industry itself. It would probably blow your mind to learn that the Centrum vitamin supplement is owned by “Big Pharma’s” Pfizer.
Mary Jo Morra said: “big Pharma has been trying to discredit natural remedies for years for the sole reason that they want to make money on their toxic chemicals that about kill a person”
I’d ask you to provide us with a credible body of evidence to support that accusation about suppression but I won’t bother because it’s laughably inane BS.
Mary Jo Morra said: “when you get sick your body is lacking these materials.. and it will heal itself when they are replenished…”
The only thing your body will heal from by taking vitamins/minerals are syndromes associated with vitamin/mineral deficiencies, which are exceedingly rare in developed countries like the US. Other than that, supplements (Youngevity’s laughable bottom-of-the barrel MLM BS in particular) don’t heal anything.
Mary Jo Morra said: “there is a method called Iridology…”
…which has been thoroughly discredited as pseudoscience/quackery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridology
Mary Jo Morra said: “people like you who don’t know anything about what your talking about”
Eesh! You have a particularly obnoxious combination of hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness (i.e., you know so little that you aren’t aware of how little you really know, a phenomena known as the Dunning-Kruger effect).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Mary Jo Morra said: “big Pharma doesn’t want you to know this of course”
Please tell me that you don’t seriously believe that Big Pharma is out to discredit iridology. I worry about your sanity.
Mary Jo Morra said: “they want to keep you sick so they can keep having you spend money on their toxic methods”
If everyone involved in healthcare were that immoral and involved in an extraordinarily massive conspiracy to secretly harm people for profit, as you suggest, why would the MLM supplement industry be any better when they have the same economic motive to “keep people sick” and virtually no oversight? Logic is absent from your arguments (as are punctuation, grammar, spelling, paragraphs, coherent thoughts, etc.).
The reality is that it the MLM scammers that don’t give a rat’s arse about whether their negligence and horrifically deceptive practices hurt people. They are nothing more than the modern day incarnation of the age-old snakeoil peddler/charlatan/mountebank, preying on the desperate and gullible. It’s that simple and it’s painfully obvious.
Mary Jo Morra said: “another precise method of natural healing is muscle testing…
…which has also been thoroughly discredited as quackery. Wow, you sure fall for a lot of woo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_kinesiology
Mary Jo Morra said: “if you had researched Dr Joel Wallach you would know that when he was small boy he had Tourette’s syndrome..”
Somehow that comes as no surprise (no offense to anyone else with Tourette’s).
Mary Jo Morra said: “so as a small boy of 11 maybe he went to the library and researched and found that it was a Calcium deficiency”
Suuure, and I bet he shot a hole-in-one 5 times during a single round of golf too. What other fantastic BS would you like to add to Great Leader’s hagiography?
http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/kim-jong-ils-record-setting-round-may-not-have-been-all-it-was-cracked-be
Mary Jo Morra said: “He was feeding the chickens their food pellets…so he started eating the pellets….he was a genius even back then.”
Ummm, I don’t think “genius” means what you think it means.
Mary Jo Morra said: “the zoo animals got sicker a lot back then… he discovered what made them sick and…he got them…healthy… since animals didn’t have insurance back then…”
Uhhh, OK I think I have to stop replying now because I’m starting to feel a bit uncomfortable about dismantling the ramblings of someone with your particular brand of mental illness.
BTW, add Angry Chef to your list Lazy Man. Great stuff, Heard him on NPR today going off on all the “healing with food” BS.
http://angry-chef.com/
Wow, just read a very powerful statement by Angry Chef on his blog that dovetails well with what I was saying in response to Mary Jo Morra’s conspiracy theories.
Angry Chef:
A word for the conspiracy theorists
And for anyone who dares to suggest that information about the ketogenic diet and cancer is being covered up in a deliberate conspiracy to support the pharmaceutical trade, I say fuck you. Fuck off back to your pitiful conspiracy theory bunkers, because you disgust me. If you are suggesting that the thousands of researchers, oncologists, clinicians and other brilliant, dedicated people around the world are deliberately letting patients die so they can get backhanders from ‘big pharma’, then you are not welcome here. Every cancer researcher has friends and relatives who have been touched by this disease. All have them have felt the loss of someone they cared about, a loss that no money could ever compensate for. Every clinician will have a thousand times more insight into the devastation and heartache that each cancer diagnosis represents, and all of them live with that pain every single day. People at the front line of treatment and research are smarter than you, braver than you, more dedicated than you, and do more good work in a day than you will ever achieve. How dare you fucking insult them. How dare you claim that they let people die. How dare you smear the name of so many brilliant human beings. How dare you accuse the best and brightest among us of such terrible crimes.
One day you, or someone you dearly love, will need the help of these people. You will need the benefit of their care, dedication, and selfless toil. You will require them to guide you through a tough time in your life, and I have no doubt that despite all your vicious accusations and bile, they will help you without question. In this respect, and by every other measure, they are better people than I am. Because if I had such power, I doubt that I would be so kind.
In your hour of need, your so called brave mavericks, your poorly qualified quack nutritionists, and your shameless authors of medical fiction like Mercola, will not be there to help you. They will have long since crawled away to their next exploitative scam, while the true heroes continue in their work, unheralded, unheard, without book deals, TV interviews, or lucrative online stores. In the place of these things they have evidence, truth, constant doubt, and hard fucking work. It will be them that save you in your hour of need, and when they do, you will regret your words.
That Angry Chef thing is perfect! I am definitely looking into him now.
I do not understand everyones bashing on Youngevity Beyond Tangy Tangerine. I am 54yrs old and I have taken many vitamins and minerals over my lifetime. And never have I had such an item that has caused my hair and nails to go crazy. And I feel so much better when I am taking it.
If it is doing these things for me visually and physically then what is it doing for me that I do not see? I have taken it to one of my doctors. She liked it. There was only one item that she said she didn’t feel I needed but it was so low that she didn’t see an issue with it. And if it is making me feel the way it does and making my hair and nails grow like crazy then I will keep brinking it.
I have also found that after a short time, a couple/few weeks of taking it, I don’t need it every day to still get the good benefits from it. I had to stop taking it for a while because I can’t afford it on SSI. But I am going into brain surgery for a clipping of an aneurysm in about 6 days. And I want this boost that I will get for my recovery.
People that bash something just because Alex Jones promotes it are idiots. Unless you have taken this product for a couple months at the least, then you have no right to say anything about it. And until I find something that has the same or better affect on my overall health and well being then this will be the product for me. Anything worth having now days is not cheap. It is the cheap shit you need to be weary of.
*** Note: all correspondence contained in this email is private
and/or confidential and may not be published and/or
forwarded without prior written approval and consent
by me.- I do not give consent…
©2017
I don’t want my hair and nails to go crazy. I’m not sure any vitamin and mineral research has ever lead for that to happen. It would scare me that there’s some thing else in there.
What’s your doctor’s name who liked it? Can you verify by calling her? We haven’t found one doctor, who wasn’t affiliated with Youngevity, to like it.
Well, I think Youngevity pays Alex Jones to promote Youngevity… I doubt he’s doing it for free. So it does reflect back on Youngevity. I can say stuff about drinking bleach and I don’t have to try it for 2 weeks. Hopefully at least people can be smart enough to learn that research can give you the answer too. The nutritional label on food tells you what you need to know.
Don’t worry about cheap vitamins, their chemical structure is the same either way. You’d be getting literally the same thing.
Not sure what is going with the end of your comment, but you posted a comment for the public and it isn’t an email.
KC said: “I do not understand everyones bashing on Youngevity Beyond Tangy Tangerine.”
The list of things you don’t understand must be very long. The reasons for bashing BTT are numerous and perfectly valid.
KC said: “(BTT)…has caused my hair and nails to go crazy.”
And that’s good because why? The craziness seems to have spread beyond your hair and nails.
KC said: “what is it doing for me that I do not see?”
Good question. Probably hurting you; at best doing nothing. Why gamble?
KC said: “But I am going into brain surgery for a clipping of an aneurysm in about 6 days.”
Brain dysfunction! It’s all starting to make sense.
KC said: “People that bash something just because Alex Jones promotes it are idiots.”
People bash Tangy Tangerine and Youngevity for a bevy of excellent reasons; Alex Jones’ involvement is just the icing on the cake.
KC said: “Note: all correspondence contained in this email is private and/or confidential and may not be published and/or forwarded without prior written approval and consent by me.- I do not give consent…”
ROFL! Yep, you’re a Joneser all right. Let’s hope that brain surgeon can fix your crossed wires.
Vogul, sometimes you’re just downright rude & there’s no need! I am frustrated every day by people who believe nonsense yet I don’t attack them on a personal level. My guess is that more than half of these readers suffer from or know someone who suffers from mental illness & in a couple comments I’ve read, you insult mental illness, it’s like saying we’re all crazy. Then you have a snipe about this mans impending brain surgery! Have a word with yourself, most of us regular, non-affiliated Citezens are here in search of the truth, not to read countless derogatory responses to people’s opinions.
If people believe they feel better from taking any supplements, youngevitys or other brands, who are you to slander their beliefs? I know what it’s like to find something you truly think is wonderful & want to share it with everyone.
What everyone here needs to remember that what works for one person, one human body, might not work for another due to a dozen factors, location, lifestyle or dietary choices to name a few.
Point being, Lazy Man is trying to shed light on a subject & you are bringing darkness.
Laura,
In fairness the truth is pretty obvious and clear. Let’s review three things:
1. Supplements have been proven to be a waste of money for years and years.
2. The placebo effect has been proven for more than hundred years.
3. It’s also been extensively shown that illegal health claims in MLM is an epidemic. This doesn’t happen with Centrum or really any other non-MLM product.
I’m all for people having opinions, but when you combine those three things, someone should never base a comment on his/her own personal experience. Their opinion should begin by addressing those three pieces of information.
That’s what every needs to remember.
Everyone should forget the idea that because one person reports that rubbing toast on their left elbow worked for them, it’s scientifically valid. It’s less valid when they are probably trying to create a market to sell that toast at $10 a slice.
Laura said: “My guess is that more than half of these readers suffer from…from mental illness.”
You think mental illness is that rampant among Youngevity distributors? Interesting supposition. I won’t argue.
Laura said: “in a couple comments I’ve read, you insult mental illness, it’s like saying we’re all crazy.”
I’m not sure how one can insult mental illness. Who is “we”? Are you saying that you’re a Youngevity distributor with a mental illness? I’m not sure how that’s relevant, but OK.
Laura said: “If people believe they feel better from taking any supplements, youngevitys or other brands, who are you to slander their beliefs?”
That’s like saying if someone believes 2+2 = 5, who am I to slander their beliefs? A stupid premise, as is the notion that Youngevity’ BS supplements have medicinal benefits. I don’t “slander” beliefs, whatever that means. I merely present rational arguments and factual evidence.
Laura said: “What everyone here needs to remember that what works for one person, one human body, might not work for another.”
No, that vapid statement is not what they need to remember. They need to remember to stay clear of idiots and con artists who plug pyramid schemes and worthless, scandalously overpriced dietary supplements.
RE: “Mary Jo Morra said: “He was feeding the chickens their food pellets…so he started eating the pellets….he was a genius even back thn.”
SO, Dr Wallach cured himself of “tourettes syndrome” by eating chicken ‘shit’? Geez, I seem to remember it was “autism” & he cured himself by eating alfalfa pellets for feeding ‘the’ calves. Anybody else got a variation on how he cured himself of something else? Or other?
Must be true, cuz ‘everybody knows’ that Mel Gibson ate MilkBones in a movie, so whatever you read on the interned HAS to be TRUE !
Do you wanna buy a duck?
Yeah, you are one of those who believes anything the AMA sets out in the media and elsewhere. Though I have not been completely convinced of Dr Wallach and his gang, I certainly don’ t believe in a system that proves every day that it is so far off the course of healing the human body or the animal body it’s freightening! The chaos wracking the medical system is so scary I would not visit a medical doctor for anything other than a broken bone or snake bite , wound care etc. Most everything else is a big guessing game with those poor guys! Please don’t prescribe a pill for me that is revealed on TV the next month as a debilitating, stroke producing or fatal ingestion of poison!
You shouldn’ be so lazy and arrogant that you do no research into the AMA.
Charlie said: “Yeah, you are one of those who believes anything the AMA sets out in the media and elsewhere.”
That’s a ridiculous fallacious statement. No one has mentioned a word about the AMA, nor can I fathom even the faintest possibility that the AMA ever “set out in the media” anything that’s remotely relevant to this discussion. Your argument is a fallacy; a straw man and a pointless off-topic diversion.
Charlie said: “Though I have not been completely convinced of Dr Wallach and his gang, I certainly don’ t believe in a system that proves every day that it is so far off the course of healing the human body or the animal body it’s freightening (sic)!”
So you’re creating an illusory choice between the validity of modern medicine versus blind faith in a hack veterinarian and “his gang” (whoever that might be) of pyramid scheme snakeoil hustlers? That’s frightening! And what exactly do you mean when you say that you’re not “completely convinced”? Anyone who would find these charlatans even partially convincing would have to be a gullible dolt of the highest order.
Charlie said: “The chaos wracking the medical system is so scary I would not visit a medical doctor for anything other than a broken bone or snake bite , wound care etc.”
Well, you say that only because you’re a one-dimensional caricature of an internet troll, but we all know it’s not true and that no rational person would say such a thing. When you get a serious ailment, you’ll go see an MD — as you have in the past and just like everyone else does when they get a serious illness — and you’ll be grateful. You would like us to believe that you’d forego medical treatment in lieu of munching down a bucket of that worthless Tangy Tangerine slop, but you won’t find any rubes here gullible enough to buy such nonsense.
Charlie said: “Most everything else is a big guessing game with those poor guys! Please don’t prescribe a pill for me that is revealed on TV the next month as a debilitating, stroke producing or fatal ingestion of poison!”
ROFL. Classic! Thanks for the laugh Mr. One-Dimensional-Caricature-Of-An-Internet-Troll. That vapid comment doesn’t even warrant a serious reply, aside from the fact that it is off topic. The merits of Youngevity (or clear lack thereof) should be discussed apart from any delusional paranoid conspiracy theories you may have about the medical profession and the efficacy/safety of modern medicine.
Charlie said: “You shouldn’ be so lazy and arrogant that you do no research into the AMA.”
Lazy? Arrogant? No one was even discussing the AMA, nor is the AMA relevant to anything under discussion here — and if you had done any research about that organization that is relevant to this discussion, you would have presented it. But that’s not the way trolls operate is it?
You’re like the antichrist version of one of Santa’s elves, toiling away in your Eastern European troll-farm sweatshop, knocking out troll posts for Youngevity and generally being extremely naughty instead of nice. You’ll get a lump of coal in your stocking tomorrow Vladimir — a step up from Tangy Tangerine though, am I right?.
Youngevity will be ringing the opening NASDAQ bell on Wednesday 1/3/18 for Fit Week.
I have friends that have rung the closing bell – http://www.budgetsaresexy.com/ringing-closing-bell-nasdaq/
It looks like Youngevity’s market cap (value of the company) is around $81 Million. For perspective the Red Sox gave Rusney Castillo a 72.5 million contract and he played about half a season for them combined from 2014-2016 – https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/castiru02.shtml.
I looked at Youngevity’s stock performance over the last 5 years and it looks like it lost 33% of it’s value. In the same time span, the S&P 500 was up 145%.
I don’t think that pressing a button at NASDAQ is going to turn it around for investors.
Kevin said: “Youngevity will be ringing the opening NASDAQ bell on Wednesday 1/3/18 for Fit Week.”
Is there anyone other than the people who write YGYI’s press releases that gives two shits? We’re only 3 days into the new year and this is already a front-runner as the least interesting news of 2018.
I almost laughed coffee all over my monitor when I saw that the company’s press release described YGYI as “a leading omni-direct lifestyle company”.
http://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/youngevity-international-inc-nasdaq-ygyi-to-ring-the-nasdaq-stock-market-opening-bell-in-20180102-00472
A meaningless pile of gobbledygook. A more accurate description would have been “failing pyramid scheme purveyor of worthless snakeoil headed by a laughably dimwitted charlatan”
Vogel and Lazy Man….are the Trolls of the internet…..they have all their BS to knock down holistic health so just tells me they are main stream with an agenda. BTW Lazy Man if your Aunt is a veterinarian and she does vaccines on a yearly schedule…then Yes she is trying to kill people pets. you can say what you will and that OK….as for me and my family we will continue to reap the benefits of Youngevity supplements as I have for the past 20 years….go right ahead , be my guest and do what you’re doing….ha ha…get healthy! You guys probably say Jesus isn’t God too…..
Teresa said: “Vogel and Lazy Man….are the Trolls of the internet…..they have all their BS to knock down holistic health so just tells me they are main stream with an agenda.”
ROFL! Trolls? You don’t seem to know the meaning of the word. This is Lazy Man’s site so he can’t be a “troll” as you allege, and I have been a regular contributor for at east a decade. You dropped in yesterday! It’s painfully obvious who the real troll is – it’s you.
Your inane threadbare assertions were easily knocked down with basic facts and hard evidence, and your inability to offer a cogent rebuttal leaves you no choice but to run away with your tail between your legs firing random potshot insults over your shoulder. You misinterpreted evidence about soil depletion, made unsupportable assertions about essential nutrients and the non-existent health benefits of Youngevity’s BS products, and you pretended to be a medical professional when I’s clear that you have no medical training whatsoever. You have proven yourself to be a witless lick-spittle for the Youngevity organization. And It wouldn’t be physically possible for you to stick your tongue any farther up Wallach’s arse. It’s a shame that you lack the gene for embarrassment
Teresa said: “You guys probably say Jesus isn’t God too…..”
OMG! Your desperation is cringe-worthy. It’s sinful to invoke the Lord’s name to defend the devils at Youngevity. Your false piety is an affront to people of all faiths.
Wow, I don’t think you can say that I’m a “troll of the internet” unless you’ve read at least 1% of my articles. That’s not a lot right? You can manage 1%? It seems like you didn’t even read this one very well.
So after you’ve read 20 more of my articles, preferably covering my core financial focus, we can talk.
Certainly you can’t think I have some kind of agenda on a sample size of 1 article, right?
However, I couldn’t believe you brought vaccinating animals into a brand-specific, pyramid, supplement discussion. If you want to get rabies, be my guest. However, I’m thankful that most dog owners don’t think like you do. I don’t want rabies. If you followed my blog, you’d know that I do a lot of dog boarding and my own vaccinated dog is extremely healthy at 9 years… just like a pup.
Sorry for address off-topic issues, but once again, people can’t address Youngevity itself, so they go to some other, unrelated topic.
You sound like an ignorant quack yourself talking like this. Wallach is a well respected naturapathic doctor and might be one of the most experienced veterinary comparative pathologists living today. He has performed thousands of autopsies on over a hundred different animal species and over a thousand on children likely before you knew how to walk so watch your garbage talk lest it ruin your credibility if you ever had any.
And no, I’m not a Youngevity distributor but a well read researcher who studies books and doesn’t just follow biased online research of Rockefeller funded institutions such as the ACS like a blind ignoramus. Study the book “The Cancer Industry” by Ralph Moss who is a PhD science writer working at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in 1974 if you want the real story and really care to help people. Otherwise everyone should just consider your blogging the work of a well funded troll.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I think the evidence is squarely on my side. Is a naturapath medically qualified to be performing over a thousand autopsies on children? You are going to have to back that up with evidence, I think.
Also how would performing autopsies be useful with nutrition. I fail to see how they are related at all.
Naturopathy Isreal said: “You sound like an ignorant quack yourself talking like this.”
No he doesn’t in the slightest. Why not put some facts on the table like instead of behaving like a butt-hurt Youngevity/Wallach fanboy?
Naturopathy Isreal said: “Wallach is a well respected naturapathic (sic) doctor and might be one of the most experienced veterinary comparative pathologists living today.”
First, he’s certainly not well respected by anyone who matters. As for your second assertion, can you back it up with facts? I’d ask you to show us the list of the “most experienced veterinary comparative pathologists living today” on which you might have based that claim, but we all know it’s just simpleminded BS you conjured out of thin air. Third, it should go without saying what expertise in veterinary pathology has nothing to do with selling worthless pyramid scheme nutritional supplements, nor does it impact Lazy Man’s credibility in any way whatsoever. Lastly, you might want to learn how to spell “naturopathic”.
Naturopathy Isreal said: “He has performed thousands of autopsies on over a hundred different animal species and over a thousand on children likely before you knew how to walk so watch your garbage talk lest it ruin your credibility if you ever had any.”
There is no conceivable scenario in which a veterinarian would perform autopsies on a thousand children. Are you really unaware of how insane you sound? Even if he had, it would have no impact on Lazy Man’s credibility; surely you must realize that. Everyone else does.
Naturopathy Isreal said: “And no, I’m not a Youngevity distributor but a well read researcher who studies books and doesn’t just follow biased online research of Rockefeller funded institutions such as the ACS like a blind ignoramus.”
You sure don’t sound “well read”. You sound exactly like the kind of “blind ignoramus” you’re railing against – one who makes patently ridiculous off-topic claims based on zero evidence. And BTW, the comment about Rockefeller funding is a clear tip-off that you’re one of those paranoid limp-dick Alex Jones freaks. You sure set a piss poor example, unless your goal is to convince people that Youngevity’s primary appeal is to paranoid, know-nothing, asshole sociopaths, in which case your time has been well spent.
Naturopathy Isreal said: “Study the book “The Cancer Industry” by Ralph Moss who is a PhD science writer working at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in 1974 if you want the real story and really care to help people. Otherwise everyone should just consider your blogging the work of a well funded troll.”
This 27-year old quack book about cancer has nothing at all to do with Youngevity. Your admonition would be inexplicable if it came from a person of sound of mind. Also, you might want to check the definition of a “troll” because Lazy Man has been writing articles on personal finance on this site for over decade; you popped in for the first time today full of bile and vitriol and armed with zero relevant facts — you are the quintessential troll. You can F off back to you doomsday prepper cave now.
Never mind Vogel and his reply. I have been reading this thread for over a year, and it is my opinion that these two men would tell God himself to “F off and go back to his doomsday prepper cave”. This Vassar grad respects and is grateful for Dr. Wallach and others like him. The NASDAQ exchange obviously likes and respects him as well. Nothing these two men have written over the past year has even come close to making me change my mind. Their verbal abuse is quite amusing when you understand that it is fear of “looking bad” or being “wrong” that drives of them. Now, back to my cave, LOL.
While that might be your opinion, as one of those two people, I can clearly say that I wouldn’t.
I didn’t realize that NASDAQ exchange has feelings of like and respect.
Melanie said, “Never mind Vogel and his reply. I have been reading this thread for over a year, and it is my opinion that these two men would tell God himself to “F off and go back to his doomsday prepper cave”.”
So many things here. First, why have you been reading this blog for a year? Why would you be following this thread for a year? Why would you attack the author and a regular contributor instead of the article itself? Why are you spouting your vitriol now? This reads like complete lunacy, I’m sure it gets better.
Melanie said, “This Vassar grad respects and is grateful for Dr. Wallach and others like him. The NASDAQ exchange obviously likes and respects him as well.”
I’m sure we can regard you as one of Vassar’s most prominent alumnus. Your colorful language from the previous statement, mixed with your bizarre obsession over this article, suggests you received a great training from this University and are clearly using your time wisely to help produce something useful for society.
I don’t think “like” and “respect” were qualifications for the NASDAQ exchange. That sounds more like a prerequisite for Match.com.
Melanie said, “Their verbal abuse is quite amusing when you understand that it is fear of “looking bad” or being “wrong” that drives of them.”
I’m not going to speak on behalf of either of them, but I don’t think either could be considered “abusers”. There aren’t any “victims” on this website, therefore no abuse could have taken place. To suggest these two have made harassing comments in which a reasonable person could have been harmed (financially, socially, physically, etc.), is both incorrect and ridiculous. These types of accusations are synonymous with people on the left calling people with conservative values Nazis.
If you don’t like what these two have to say, then you have the ability to not return to this page. You cannot claim abuse or harm by voluntarily returning, especially since your life has not directly affected by their words.
Melanie said, “Now, back to my cave, LOL.”
Just where you belong. You annoying troglodyte.
Melanie Banks said: “Never mind Vogel and his reply. I have been reading this thread for over a year, and it is my opinion that these two men would tell God himself to “F off and go back to his doomsday prepper cave”. This Vassar grad respects and is grateful for Dr. Wallach and others like him. The NASDAQ exchange obviously likes and respects him as well. Nothing these two men have written over the past year has even come close to making me change my mind. Their verbal abuse is quite amusing when you understand that it is fear of “looking bad” or being “wrong” that drives of them. Now, back to my cave, LOL.”
Your “opinion” is foolish and baseless. It is blasphemy on your part to equate criticism of Youngevity (i.e., quack snakeoil/pyramid scheme) with such a profane insult to the almighty. Are you a pagan; atheist; Satanist; or just painfully obtuse?
Secondly, you already alleged back in March 2016 that you are a Vassar math grad. It’s a mystery as to why you feel the need to mention it every time you post, especially since, aside from being unimpressive, it has no bearing on Youngevity. It is nothing more than a misdirected argument from authority (i.e., fallacy of logic) and an unseemly display of insecurity.
https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/youngevity-scam/comment-page-6/#comment-1314980
Third, it’s hard to imagine that you could come to the conclusion that anyone here has even attempted to sway your thinking about anything. We simply use you occasionally as a convenient foil to show the emptiness of the arguments emanating from people who, like you, profess their love for uberquacks like Joel Wallach and “not-a-real-doctor Glidden”. You embarrass yourself every time you post and inadvertently reinforce everyone’s worst impressions about Wallach’s/Glidden’s simpleminded lickspittle cheerleaders.
It’s important to point out that you haven’t made a single comment yet that’s relevant to Youngevity (let alone proven Lazy Man or me wrong about anything) and as a result, there has been no opportunity to sway your thinking because your thinking is way off topic. Not to mention that you seem so staggeringly ignorant and close-minded that any effort to sway you would almost surely be a waste of time. You can’t even be swayed to make a relevant on-topic comment. Imagine that! Go figure.
Again, you have yet to make a single cogent point about Youngevity. All you’ve done to date (aside from inexplicably trying to swing your dick about Vassar) is rant about GMOs and Lyme disease and profess your undying adoration for charlatan/quacks Glidden and Wallach.
https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/youngevity-scam/comment-page-7/#comment-1377094
https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/youngevity-scam/comment-page-6/#comment-1314980
https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/youngevity-scam/comment-page-6/#comment-1324561
You seem to think that it’s OK to use this site as your personal litter box but all you do is make people cringe and marvel at the inanity of your comments. You probably aren’t doing your husband Jim’s anemic political aspirations any good either. Perhaps the twaddle you post on social media had something to with his getting slaughtered in your Podunk town’s 2017 city council race. I noticed that he has an associate’s degree in political science from Ulster County Community College, so I have no doubt that you drive him nuts by rubbing your Vassar story in his face on a daily basis. ROFL! Poor guy!
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/article/DF/20171022/NEWS/171029891
http://www.dailyfreeman.com/article/DF/20171107/NEWS/171109734
BTW, your claim that you aren’t a Youngevity distributor is suspect at best, given that you post ads for the company’s products on your Facebook page. No matter though. It’s clear that you’d rather talk about ANYTHING here other than the topic at hand. Sure would be better though if you took off your mask and donned your mitts and came back swinging with the best pro-Youngevity arguments you can muster. You know you’re dying to so why not drop the charade and bring your A-game. Dazzle us with some of that fancy Vassar math!
https://www.facebook.com/melanie.banks.731/posts/10206528123104992
NOW you can crawl back into your cave. Or will you come back with more vitriol and off-topic noise that serves no apparent purpose other than as a means for you to vent your frustration and supply us all with inadvertent comedy?
It amuses me Vogel of the efforts you took to try and get to know me. Like all your criticism and complaints, your comments are meaningless and only shows your true nature. I am glad that I do not know you and would never waste my time looking you up on any type of social media or search engine. I am flattered that you were that interested in me, guessing I hit a nerve. However, your efforts were also creepy enough for me to give you fair warning that given any attempts to harass me or my family, I will contact law enforcement as necessary.
Melanie Banks said: “Like all your criticism and complaints, your comments are meaningless and only shows your true nature.”
They may have gone over your head, Vassar degree notwithstanding, but my comments and criticism cannot be described by any honest sentient human being as “meaningless”. My “true nature” is to research claims that are made on this site. You claimed that your name is Melanie Banks; that you have a degree from Vassar; and that you aren’t a Youngevity distributor (a claim that now appears to be false). Google makes it pretty easy to put those pieces together and find your social media pages. If you don’t like that, don’t post your name and belabor the details about where you went to school, and get rid of or restrict access to your social media pages.
Melanie Banks said: “I am glad that I do not know you and would never waste my time looking you up on any type of social media or search engine.”
The feeling is mutual. Two minutes on your Facebook page was all it took to creep me out. I have no doubt whatsoever that you would have looked me up if you had more to go on than “Vogel”. Lazy Man has received death threats from aggrieved anonymous MLM freaks, which underscores the sheer lunacy of MLM and why anonymity can be a good thing. We all have a choice as to how much information we are willing to provide to strangers. You chose to not be anonymous because you couldn’t resist bragging about your Vasssar degree.
Melanie Banks said: “I am flattered that you were that interested in me, guessing I hit a nerve.”
I don’t think you’re flattered at all; at least you shouldn’t be – unless you’re a deuded egomaniac to boot.
Melanie Banks said: “However, your efforts were also creepy enough for me to give you fair warning that given any attempts to harass me or my family, I will contact law enforcement as necessary.”
ROFL! Bitch please! If there’s anything you MLMers excel at, it’s playing the victim and riding slippery slopes. Just because someone looks up the name that YOU provided and finds your Facebook page doesn’t justify throwing a hissy fit about you or your family being harassed . We can add paranoia and histrionics to your list of faults. Remember, it was you who claimed that Lazy Man and I would tell the almighty to F off. That’s a grossly offensive thing to say. Expressing disgust over your stupid comment was completely warranted, and If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen (don’t make stupid, offensive, or off-topic comments).
Again, it’s worth pointing out that you haven’t made a single on-topic comment in any of your posts to date. You come here spouting nonsense and taking potshots at me and the blog host, disrupting the discussion, and adding literally nothing of value or relevance – and then you have the gall to play the victim. It’s cringe worthy. I invited you to begin making on topic comments and bring your A-game (utilize that Vassar grad knowledge that you keep bragging about) and instead you came back with this paranoid victim role playing BS? How embarrassing for you. The offer still stands., so you can take it up or continue deflecting until Lazy Man gets bored enough to cut of your mic.
Lazy man, your personal attacks diminish your arguments.
Who did I personally attack again? I have received many personal attacks and I do tend to defend myself against those.
I will admit some frustration at times towards people who lack critical thinking skills to do independent research and instead just repeat what appear to be the same Youngevity talking points over and over again.
Doctors are absolutely clueless when it comes to how to keep people healthy as they receive almost zero training on the topic of nutrition. “Medical students are still getting less than 20 hours of nutrition education over 4 years, and even most of that has limited clinical relevance. Thirty years ago, only 37 percent of medical schools had a single course in nutrition. According to the most recent national survey, that number has since dropped to 27 percent. And, it gets even worse after students graduate.” The less you see a doctor- the longer you will live.
Yawn.. this was already addressed about 1000 comments ago. Please come up with something new. If you care about nutrition, go see a nutritionist. They’ll be the first ones to tell you that Youngevity is crap and that you should just eat healthy foods.
Try to stay on topic. Thanks.
David I. said: “Doctors are absolutely clueless when it comes to how to keep people healthy as they receive almost zero training on the topic of nutrition.”
Keeping people healthy involves a lot more than nutrition, and the training that MDs receive in nutrition, like every subject, is more than adequate to do their jobs well – infinitely better than any training that the company’s spokes-quack Wallach or any of their other talking heads like Glidden eve received.
It’s a safe bet that you finished 3 GPA points and a high school degree short of ever knowing what goes on in a medical school. What you said above is no less absurd than saying that rocket scientists know nothing about rocket science. Why you idiot shills choose to pontificate about subjects you clearly know nothing about is mind boggling.
You are falsely attempting to portray MDs as ignorant as a diversion from the fact that the shit you sell has nothing to do with sound nutritional practices. It is the antithesis of good nutrition. You are selling worthless junk to people under the false pretense that it will improve their health (and miraculously cure their diseases) and enrich them financially. In other words, you are lying parasites clinging desperately to a scam that’s transparently ridiculous to everyone except that rare one-in-a-million ignoramus/desperado.
David I. said: The less you see a doctor- the longer you will live.”
Oh good grief! That instantly goes near the top of a very long list of all-time stupidest utterances by a Youngevity shill. Congrats on making it to the medalists podium.
You are assuming all vitamins are the same, but it is not true.
You are assuming al human beings are the same, but it is not true.
You are assuming “western” medicine is the only way to approach health, sorry to tell you that “western” medicine doesn’t want you to be healthy.
You are presuming that any variation of vitamins matter. Coke is not the same as Pepsi. Nutritionally, the difference doesn’t matter.
I have never assumed that all human beings are the same. That is obviously not true, nor something I said.
The topic of this article isn’t about “western” medicine at all. “Western” medicine doesn’t have wants.
So that’s 0 for 4 in false claims. I hope you aren’t planning to make any more.
Mary B said: “You are assuming all vitamins are the same, but it is not true.”
Clearly no one has assumed anything of the kind or said anything remotely like that. Obviously vitamin C differs from vitamin B, etc. Implicit in your statement though is that Youngevity vitamins are somehow better than non-MLM vitamins, which is just laughable BS. MLMs, like Youngevity, consistently charge outrageous amounts for mundane and often substandard products, like ordinary vitamins, in order to feed their pyramid (i.e., the overhead costs associated with paying off the pyramid participants are massive).
Mary B said: “You are assuming al human beings are the same, but it is not true.”
Another worthless throwaway statement/strawman argument. First of all, no one made that assumption here. However, it’s worth pointing out that based on DNA homology, humans are in fact 99.5% the same.
https://www.genome.gov/10001551/genetic-variation-program/
The ways in which humans differ are completely irrelevant to the discussion of Youngevity and you are far too myopic and ignorant to appreciate them.
Mary B said: “You are assuming “western” medicine is the only way to approach health, sorry to tell you that “western” medicine doesn’t want you to be healthy.”
What a silly thing to say. No one has said anything of the kind and your obsession with making strawman arguments borders on pathological. “Western medicine” (i.e., “medicine”) is a discipline – it obviously does not have wants or desires. If what you meant to say was that medical practitioners on the whole don’t want people to be healthy, then you are simply an obtuse ass, which would come as a surprise to no one given that you are a Youngevity minion, and the caliber of people associated with the company varies from drooling moron to maladroit charlatan. It also bears pointing out that Youngevity’s MLM scam is an entirely Western machination, so don’t try to pretend that it’s some kind of secret unearthed by Tibetan monks.
Why do you anonymous Youngevity idiots even bother posting here. It’s like you’re purposely trying to embarrass yourselves. No one could be that good at it by accident.
Last I checked the U.S. was still a free market and individuals are allowed to purchase Youngevity’s products or not. If a competitor wants to make a better product (the ones you listed don’t even come close) and steal some of their market share then so be it. That’s how the free market works. It’s not like the Wallach family is ripping off tax payers like government welfare whore Elon Musk (who stole $4.6B from taxpayers so far).
If Youngevity makes an inferior product their customers will go elsewhere. What’s so complicated about that?
Actually the products I listed are as good. It’s like saying that Coke is not even close to Pepsi. Look at the nutritional labels and tell me how they are significantly different.
MLM products don’t operate in a free market. As the FTC wrote about the MLM:
The same thing happened to MonaVie and Vemma for its nutritional juices. It turns out that the demand for those were never about the products. In fact, the inventor of MonaVie called it expensive flavored water in court documents if my memory is correct.
Glad I could help educate you on MLM. Let me know if you have any more questions.
David I. said: “Last I checked the U.S. was still a free market and individuals are allowed to purchase Youngevity’s products or not.”
Did you really have to check or was that just throwaway sarcasm? It happens to be a gross oversimplification because our markets are not entirely free; they are constrained and regulated in numerous ways. What your threadbare comment boils down to is an infantile contention that the company isn’t doing anything wrong because they are not literally forcing people to buy their products. Obviously, the issue of force is irrelevant to everything we are talking about here. Your point is so far off the mark that it begs the question as to why you would even bother to participate in a discussion like this. Apparently even the simplest aspects are completely over your head.
David I. said: “If a competitor wants to make a better product (the ones you listed don’t even come close) and steal some of their market share then so be it.”
One would be hard pressed to find any retail product that isn’t light years better than Youngevity’s laughable shit. It’s also dishonest to present them as Youngevity’s competitors given that they already own the lion’s share of the market and it is Youngevity that is scrambling to pick up crumbs by completely avoiding the retail market and tying their products to an illusory MLM business opportunity, while exploiting a captive audience of misled and/or parasitic MLM distributors.
David I. said: “It’s not like the Wallach family is ripping off tax payers like government welfare whore Elon Musk (who stole $4.6B from taxpayers so far).”
We don’t know whether the Wallach family is ripping off taxpayers, but now that you mention it, it wouldn’t be the least bit surprising if these snakeoil charlatans were also tax cheats (I would bet money on it). As for Elon Musk, bringing him into the conversation is a transparent dodge, but regardless he has single-handedly revolutionized the car industry and his rockets will probably put the first humans on Mars. WTF has Wallach ever accomplished other than padding his pockets by ripping off little old ladies with fake medicine?
David I. said: “If Youngevity makes an inferior product their customers will go elsewhere. What’s so complicated about that?
What customers? You mean their distributors? There’s no question that Youngevity makes an inferior product; an outrageously overpriced inferior product; sold by exploited naifs and chronic liars. Again, your comment is painfully obtuse as it ignores the myriad of regulations that Youngevity has routinely violated. Just because a market is free, or free-ish anyway, doesn’t entitle an MLM company like Youngevity to lie about its products or violate US laws. Apparently, all of this is either far too complicated for you to grasp, or you reduce it to the level of absurdity because you are purposely trying to deceive people.
Just counting the ingredients on the Opti-Men that you claim is the same. Opti-Men has 37 and Tangy Tangerine lists 50 ingredients (and 90 overall as the Fruit powder contains sub-ingredients). Tangy Tangerine contains all the key Sulfates (Glucosamine Sulfate HCl, Chondroitin Sulfate), Methylsulfonylmethane and the important CoQ10 necessary for your brain. Opti-Men contains none of these key (and EXPENSIVE) ingredients.
Not only that the Opti-Men capsules are the size of horse pills. Good luck downing those. The Tangy Tangerine powder easily dissolves into a nice orange drink that can be sipped all throughout the day which is the proper way to consume all these vitamins (especially Vitamin C that should be spread out).
I think you have a problem reading labels or are maybe too lazy to have even compared the ingredients.
Glad I could help educate you on how to read labels and compare products that are clearly different. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Actually, I wrote in the article, “I did a quick search on Amazon and found Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men Multivitamins (180-pack) , which was similarly highly packed with vitamins and minerals. I didn’t compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close, more in some areas, less in others.”
Also, as the article mentioned showed, scientifically people shouldn’t be wasting money on vitamins at all.
If you think that CoQ10 is important, you should probably dump Tangy Tangerine in the trash. The nutritional label that I found said it had only 3MG. For $0.29 a pill you can get 200MG of CoQ10 right here: https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Made-Naturally-Orange-80-Count/dp/B004GJVD4I/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1519002231&sr=8-5&keywords=coenzyme%2Bq10&th=1. So we are talking about less than a half of penny worth of product. That’s certainly not EXPENSIVE.
As for glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM, you can get this product for 10 cents a pill – https://www.amazon.com/Doctors-Best-Glucosamine-Chondroitin-OptiMSM/dp/B000I4DFAK/ref=sr_1_4_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1519002833&sr=1-4&keywords=glucosamine%2Bchondroitin&th=1. It has about 10x the quantity of the amounts in Tangy Tangerine. So let’s just round that to about a penny in value. Again, I don’t consider this very expensive.
I have a hammer in tool box. It’s amazing how easy it is to make pills into a powder.
I’m happy to have saved you a bunch of money. I hope you donate some of it to worthy charities. Thanks.
Maybe you should call all electronic manufacturers a scam because silicon is cheap and sand can be purchased for pennies. Not only are you a software developer you are also an expert scientist and business man that knows a scam when he sees it. Maybe I don’t feel like drinking 10 gallons of water to get 20 different pills to get all these vitamins and minerals into me?
Instead of trying to dissect each and every mineral and vitamin maybe you should use your amazing talents to make your own blend of vitamins and nutrients and make a million dollars and compete with them.
The Free Market is a wonderful thing. You might look into it.
I was comparing apples to apples which is fair.
I don’t need to be an expert scientist… I am able to read and cite sources from expert scientists as I did in the article. So don’t attack me, attack them. I look forward to you writing them letters. If one company is selling a Honda Accord for $25,000 and another is selling a very functionally equivalent car (maybe with different floor mats) for $100,000… well it doesn’t take a business man to see that something isn’t right there. If you CAN’T see it, then I think you are just saying you are poor consumer when it comes to determining value for your dollar. Fortunately, if you stick around and read my articles, you can learn that very useful skill.
Finally, it’s not 20 pills and 10 gallons of water. And again, I still have that hammer that crushes pills into a powder.
As you can probably tell, I have no interest in getting involved in MLM scams. I want to help consumers, not get rich off of them.
I love the free market. However, let’s please stay on the topic of MLM, which is not the free market. I’ve already given you what the FTC has said to address it.
David I said: “Maybe you should call all electronic manufacturers a scam because silicon is cheap and sand can be purchased for pennies.”
Interesting how MLM shills always dodge the details by resorting to moronic threadbare analogies. If you were to have applied that analogy honestly you would have said that MLM is basically selling sand for the same price as silicon chips and arguing that their sand can power a computer. In other words, MLMs sell cheap shit at grossly overinflated prices using deception to create a false value proposition, just like you did in your stupid throwaway analogy.
David I said: “Maybe I don’t feel like drinking 10 gallons of water to get 20 different pills to get all these vitamins and minerals into me?”
Ah, so you like creating false dilemmas too I see. You’re saying that the choice is either (a) participate in a moronic pyramid scheme in which a bunch of assholes lie about how their mundane horribly overpriced vitamins and minerals can miraculously cure all diseases and make distributors wealthy; or (b) consume 10 gallons of water and 20 different pills.
That’s so incredibly dumb I’m surprised your head doesn’t revolt and separate from your neck. I would have greater trust eating garbage of the street than ingesting anything sold by these vile, lying, remorseless, greedy sacks of shit.
David I said: “Instead of trying to dissect each and every mineral and vitamin maybe you should use your amazing talents to make your own blend of vitamins and nutrients and make a million dollars and compete with them.”
But dissecting the contents and relative cost of the ingredients in the product is the only way to determine its value, or lack thereof. But of course, you’re an idiot, so you’d rather bypass that process altogether and admonish people to make their own supplements instead. Someone must have dropped you on your head as a child.
David I said: “The Free Market is a wonderful thing. You might look into it.”
Youngevity doesn’t participate in a “free” market. They sell in a closed loop to their own distributors, using the product as an admission ticket to a pyramid scheme, instead of trying to compete with products in the retail market, where Youngevity’s scandalously overpriced shit would be laughed off the store shelves. Perhaps by “free” you meant the ability to lie and cheat people. Your shame and humiliation know no bounds.
so you still haven’t come up with a good alternative to Tangy Tangerine other than going out and spending hours sourcing each of the individual ingredients myself and then methodically drinking each of the 20+ pills each day with gallons of water. Hey buddy my time is worth $300/hr. I’ll gladly pay someone else to source those ingredients and put it together in a nice tasty orange drink even if the overall package is more expensive than 20 individual products. Just like I’ll gladly pay someone to build a car for me instead of building it myself. See how the post industrial free market age works? Everyone specializes in something and if its of value to someone they will pay for it.
And last I checked I was not a distributor so no one is forcing me to buy anything. I just went to the website and bought 6 cans and gave 3 cans to my dad and he loves it. And 3 other friends of mine bought Tangy Tangerine and none of them are distributors either. It’s great stuff.
David I. said: “So you still haven’t come up with a good alternative to Tangy Tangerine other than going out and spending hours sourcing each of the individual ingredients myself and then methodically drinking each of the 20+ pills each day with gallons of water.”
Pretty much anything is a better alternative than ingesting worthless sludge sold by third-rate MLM-pyramid scheme carnival barkers. Take a multivitamin for a nickel a day; buy a supplement from any reputable non-MLM company; invest the money in a better diet or a gym membership; or do nothing at all. If you seriously think that taking 20+ pills and gallons of water is your only alternative, then you are just dumb as F! Given how hard it is to imagine that someone could be that dumb and still be able to fart out complete sentences on a keyboard, the safe assumption is that you don’t believe the BS your peddling and know full well that it’s a straight up con. Shame on you!
Tangy Tangerine is a laughable bucket of mundane shit masquerading as a miracle cure and leveraged as a bait for a pyramid scheme. Don’t try to pretend that it’s anything more than that. The idea that it reliably offers any kind of tangible health benefit is ridiculous; the idea that it could or ever has cured anything is absurd. I’d say it’s laughable but there’s nothing funny about bilking naifs with fake medicine.
Literally every MLM supplement company in existence offers some proprietary blend of similarly mundane, overpriced shit (pills, shakes, juices, tonics/elixirs, etc.) and, like Youngevity, tries desperately to deceive people into believing that it cures everything from Alzheimer’s to Zika. You follow in the grand old tradition of horrifically dishonest predatory travelling snake-oil salesman; the only difference with MLMs like yours is that a pyramid scheme is attached.. The people behind your travesty of an organization reads like a police blotter — serial con artists who prey on the desperate and gullible. Don’t expect a safe harbor for your offensively dishonest immoral BS here.
David I. said: “And last I checked I was not a distributor so no one is forcing me to buy anything.”
It’s plainly obvious that you’re a distributor. This isn’t our first day at the rodeo. We know the MO of MLM trolls all too well.
David I. said: “just went to the website and bought 6 cans and gave 3 cans to my dad and he loves it.”
Suuuure you did. ROFL! Just 6 cans??? Blowing $250-$350 in just one pop??? One would have to be insane (and a doomsday prepper). You may as well be telling us how great it is to incinerate $50 bills in the fireplace.
BTW, nobody professes love for a vitamin blend outside the realm of inane MLM pyramid schemes. It’s not like you can objectively feel any health benefit from it, although you’re no doubt dying to tell us a fairy tale about how it cured dear old dad’s herpes or some similar miracle-cure BS. Spare us. It’s plain as dirt what you’re all about. It’s hard to fathom that anyone would willingly ingest sketchy garbage like this on a daily basis considering the ill repute of the people offering it. It’s not like any of you would give two shits if you were harming people.
David I said: “And 3 other friends of mine bought Tangy Tangerine and none of them are distributors either.”
Oh suuure they did. What a remarkable coincidence that everyone in in your circle of morons are suddenly flocking to Youngevity. What a colossal pile of BS! You’re so bad at this it hurts.
Good for you, tell it like it is. You know, the longivit2me site supposedly has a ‘registurd (oops!) nurse on site’ (part time ‘r sumsech), t’ ‘sposedly ‘help’ callers. Good luck with that! I asked for an opinion from those lying f**kers re: a temporary condition. That was an entirely WORTHLESS endeavor !!!
I really like your take on these particular pricks. It would be truly wonderful to hear you on the George Nori radio show to dispute this marvels of modern consewery. I hate these creeple.
Let me know if you ever decide to go on.
Thanks!
I would be happy to go on. However, due to the big MLM companies bringing lawsuits against me (multiple times) to suppress my opinion, I appreciate any donation you can make to my legal fund: http://www.gofundme.com/LazyManAndMoney.
Again, it doesn’t take hours to source ingredients. I spent about 30 seconds doing a search on Amazon and didn’t even try to buy the best value. And it didn’t come close to 20+ pills. I think it was about 5 (3 of the Opti-Men, 1 of the Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM which has a lot more than in Tangy Tangerine, and 1 CoQ10).
It’s easy to be an anonymous person saying that your time is $300/hr. That’s around $600,000 a year. Clearly you aren’t making that with any mental work as you can’t seem to grasp the concept of “Pills + Hammer = Powder.” You also think that taking a couple of supplements is as difficult as building a car from thousands of spare parts… at least if we believe your analogy is an honest attempt at a comparison.
The other thing that you forgot is that if you drink Tangy Tangerine, you are going to have to take magnesium pills to get to the amount in Opti-Men. So either way, you are taking pills and buying more products.
You can’t have it both ways. It makes zero sense to say that you make $300/hr and claim that 1 cent of product is EXPENSIVE.
You’ve already wasted more time typing here than it would have taken you to send the 10 minutes to save yourself $350 year.
Last I checked you used anonymous name and an encrypted, private email service called startmail. So we don’t know that you aren’t a distributor. For all we know, you could be Wallach himself. I think you appear to be on the same intelligence level… and that’s not a compliment to either of you.
I can appreciate the need for bux. I should have said I am broke (EMPHASIS on the ‘BROKE’ part). The previous federal ‘administration’ left us with NO more jobs/income, & the current st guv’t (aka the ‘Moonbeams Suicide Express) is sucking up the rest. I may need a ‘Go Fund Me’ pag
Like it, or not, God Bless you.
if they aren’t the best then why NSF?
http://info.nsf.org/Certified/Common/Company.asp?CompanyName=youngevity&x=4&y=10?
Lots of companies have products certified by the NSF. It’s not an award for just the “best.” For what it’s worth, I only found 6 products certified (if you click at the links you listed).
What about all the other Youngevity products?
Ron (the YGYI troll) said: “if they aren’t the best then why NSF?”
So much wrong with that question. United States Pharmacopeia (USP) is the “best” certification; NSF is crap. So even in that context, your question is a fail.
Secondly, what exactly is it that you think NSF is certifying. They’re certainly not saying that the product is any better or worse than any other product – in fact the webpage doesn’t seem to say anything about the products or what the certification means at all. So pretty worthless right?
Lastly, these certifications attest to a product (or a particular batch of it supplied by the manufacturer) contains what’s listed on the label; it doesn’t attest to efficacy or value. The real problem arises when idiot distributors from companies like yours pretend that just because a product contains what’s on its label (vitamin C for instance), it can cure a myriad of diseases. Youngevity products obviously don’t cure, prevent, or mitigate any medical condition, and the sellers of these products who routinely lie and say otherwise are scummy parasites.
Vogel I’m not an troll or do I work for them If healthcare today really does work then how come no one stands up about talking about Medical Errors that we have doctors today kills us but they get a walk yet if an Natropath does it they get pilered. If anything healthcare Is not working so I believe Naturopaths will be the future oh you might think what gets me thinking that well this is why
Many, many trials show the efficacy of various botanical medicines. Botanical medicines work biochemically just like pharmaceuticals. Type your favorite herb into Pubmed. The same is true of balenotherapy, “therapies involving heat and water”. Lots of research there.
There are many successful practitioners that have come from Bastyr, helping tens of thousands of patients every day, while working adjunctively with conventional providers. Cancer Treatment Centers of America employs Naturopathic Doctors, because of their ability to provide quality adjunctive care. If naturopathic doctors were not trained similarly to conventional providers they would not be able to work in adjunctive care environments like that at Cancer Treatment Centers of America and many integrative clinics across Canada and The United States.
People are human and they make medical errors like all humans make errors. What are you going to do talk about them? Doctors aren’t trying to kill us as you imply.
The difficulty with Naturopaths is that they have never been shown to help people medically. So when you present no help, it’s a much bigger deal if you kill someone.
Healthcare is actually working quite well in numerous countries. The United States isn’t as successful because of politics and numerous other things that are NOT related to the successful medications that are used around the world. That’s not to say that ALL medications are 100% perfect, but that they’ve largely been very well shown to work.
Think about it as LeBron James generally having proved himself as a good basketball player. It doesn’t mean he hits every shot, but generally your odds of winning are better if he’s on your team.
Please don’t go with “type your favorite herb into Pubmed.” You can type “vitamin E” into Pubmed and get thousands and thousands results. However, the conclusion of all those studies have scientists saying, “We don’t see proof that this is helpful.” There was a great article in the New York Times just a few days ago on this very topic.
So please don’t spread bad logic and make yourself look by by saying “type [x] into Pubmed.” Make sure you understand what PubMed really is and how the research is funding and how it builds in the medical community to reach meta-analysis and conclusions. I understand some of this stuff, but Vogel has proven himself to be an expert in this area. If you haven’t read all his comments on this post you should.
Ron said: “Vogel I’m not an troll”
Hell ya you are. You came here like a wolf in sheep’s clothing asking some stupid veiled question about NSF certification, and when you didn’t like the straightforward honest reply, you threw off your mask and went into full-on rant mode.
Ron said: “If healthcare today really does work then how come no one stands up about talking about Medical Errors”.
(a) They in fact do; routinely. (b) That statement has nothing to do with Youngevity; it is a moronic diversion. It’s not surprising that you resort to such tactics when it’s clear that the last thing you want to do is talk about your ridiculous company or its indefensibly idiotic products, let alone the NSF – the subject of your original post.
Ron said: “healthcare Is not working so I believe Naturopaths will be the future”
Good lord, what a dumb baseless belief – but still, let’s hope not for all our sakes. That’s basically what happened to the beleaguered populace of communist China during Mao’s Great Leap Forward when there weren’t enough medical resources to go around, so he gave the country proles worthless folk “remedies” instead. You don’t have to wait for such a horrific fate to befall the US healthcare system though. If being treated by some feckless idiot with a dousing rod and a bag of mulched herbs is your thing, have at it.
Ron said: “Many, many trials show the efficacy of various botanical medicines.”
A worthlessly vague claim pulled out of your backside. Regardless, your statement has no bearing whatsoever on the subject of Youngevity because your company does not sell botanical medicine. They sell laughably worthless, overpriced, shit, pyramid-scheme dietary supplements, and no trials have or ever will demonstrate their efficacy in doing anything other than making people poorer and stupider.
Ron said: “Botanical medicines work biochemically just like pharmaceuticals. Type your favorite herb into Pubmed.”
If I type in “chives” (my favorite herb) into Pub Med, the search results do not even remotely resemble those for any pharmaceuticals. Chives aren’t medicine. More importantly, when I use Pub Med, I actually understand the results because I am well trained in science. On the other hand, when you do it, it’s like a child looking at a random pile of cogs and metal springs and trying to understand how a Swiss watch works. Advising people to consult Pub Med is pointless unless they are experts. For the layperson, the exercise would be useless. Worse than useless, you use it to mislead people into thinking that the Youngevity shit you sell has some value. It clearly doesn’t.
Ron said: “The same is true of balenotherapy, “therapies involving heat and water”. Lots of research there.”
The day Youngevity starts selling “therapies involving heat and water”, we might take that into consideration. Until then, it’s off-topic noise. Mindboggling how desperate you are to change the subject (and yet every new subject you pick still belies your staggering ignorance).
Ron said: “There are many successful practitioners that have come from Bastyr…”
Again, a pathetically vague claim with no relevance to Youngevity or its products. You just sound like a butt-hurt naturopath trying to defend their sketchy profession.
Ron said: “Cancer Treatment Centers of America employs Naturopathic Doctors, because of their ability to provide quality adjunctive care.”
Just to be clear, the shit that naturopaths push has never been scientifically demonstrated to have any value whatsoever for the treatment of cancer. CTCA hiring NDs is simply a case of trying to appeal to a small segment of the market that mistakenly believes in airy-fairyness of herbal BS, in part motivated by the sheer desperation of receiving a cancer diagnosis and the willingness to try anything, no matter how far-fetched, that comes with it. There’s a big difference between some ND dipshit recommending licorice root or ginger for an upset tummy post chemo and a hack like you telling people that Tangy Fucking Tangerine cures cancer.
Ron said: “If naturopathic doctors were not trained similarly to conventional providers they would not be able to work in adjunctive care environments like that at Cancer Treatment Centers of America and many integrative clinics across Canada and The United States.”
That a complete BS statement. NDs are not trained similarly to MDs; if they were, they wouldn’t be NDs. But more importantly, none of what you said has anything at all to do with Youngevity. Pure diversion! No one from Youngevity works at CTCA and the organization has no ties whatsoever with Youngevity or its products.
You’ll have to excuse me now. I feel a baked potato coming on. Is it time to go call my local naturopath for a batch of chives or should I save a couple of hundred bucks and just go buy them down at Safeway. ROFL!
Also I suppose GMP is garage too? when In doubt you don’t investigate like I do. Do you have any facts that NSF is crap nor do you have idea what they do?
Ron said: “Also I suppose GMP is garage (sic) too?”
OMG, what kind of ass clown rides the slippery slope all the way from “NSF is basically worthless” to “good manufacturing practice (GMP) is garage (sic) too?” They are apples and oranges. Obviously, following GMP standards would be a good thing (not that Youngevity could ever be relied on to do so). But those GMP standards are laid out in the US Code of Federal Regulations; nothing to do with NSF.
Ron said: “…when In doubt you don’t investigate like I do.”
Ha! The dumbest thing you’ve said yet. I have been regularly posting exhaustive research here for a decade. You showed up this week and have posted what, like 4 times? And your posts, rather than containing research, are akin to a mangy cur taking a leak on a lamppost. What’s the big research challenge with NSF? All you have to do is click a URL and read a paragraph or two to get a clear picture of the operation (which I first did many years ago). I could see how, to you, that might seem like rocket science.
Ron said: “Do you have any facts that NSF is crap nor do you have idea what they do?”
I know that their clientele consists almost exclusively of sketchy MLM companies (e.g., Amway, Advocare, Beachbody, Herbalife, Kyani, Usana, etc.) and that there’s isn’t a single brand name there that I have ever purchased or would ever consider purchasing.
http://info.nsf.org/Certified/dietary/Listings.asp?StandardExt=&TradeName=&CompanyName=&PlantCountry=&ProductType=&search=Search
I know that they don’t certify efficacy or safety but merely that the product contains what’s listed on the label (hurrah, the arsenic and lead in Tangy Tangerine is certifiable!).
https://www.consumerreports.org/vitamins-supplements/what-usp-verified-and-other-supplement-seals-mean/
I also know that the most respected and exclusive certification standard is United States Pharmacopeia (USP), not NSF. But I raised this point already and you simply ignored it, just like one of Youngevity’s typical feckless stooge a-holes.
We don’t have a free market we haven’t had an free market since the flexner report of 1910 before that time no one had the upper hand of medicine.
I don’t think anyone wants to go back to the state of medicine of 1900.
If you are applying the “Flexner Report” to ending a free market, then we have no true free markets in anything. We don’t have free markets in the US stock system because of the SEC. We don’t have a free market to sell food with poison in it.
Most noticeably MLM products are not in a free market as they generally (maybe even all) prohibit sales on Amazon and Ebay from its distributors.
However, let’s get back to the topic of Youngevity, because the Flexner report has nothing to do with it.
We’d get much closer to the topic if you addressed the this NY Times article from 3 days ago that I previously mentioned. The sad truth is that billions of dollars on studies on vitamins haven’t led to positive results. I wish it were different as taking supplements to improve health would be awesome. Unfortunately, that’s not the reality. It’s important that we start out with the understanding and agreement that it is not reality.
So If they aren’t killing us I suppose nothing happens to us when we take chemo maybe since you say that I should take some now then yes they are so there aren’t other doctors that can do what Dr. Fata. Also after we have given them 6 billion for a cure for cancer what makes you say if they can’t cure heartburn that they are gonna be successful for curing cancer. I look at facts and statistics has they are out there publicly for anyone too see all they do now is go for an 5 year cancer survival rate now so if someone lives a little beyond that they put that has an cure and not even focus on the cure.
Once again, you are far off the topic of Youngevity. People who are taking chemo already have cancer and are already dying. You might as well say that any surgeon that cuts into a person is killing someone by stabbing them with a knife. And how dare we let a dentist drill into our teeth!
Your comment about Dr. Fata didn’t seem finished, so I don’t know what your point there was.
I don’t know if we’ll ever have a cure for cancer. You might want to review this podcast from the University of Melbourne, Australia on the topic. These are the experts and they accurately point out:
“I’d like to think of cancer as a cell evolution process that mimics what happens in evolution more broadly and that, in fact, we will never rid ourselves of the threat of cancer because cells are driven by a genetic blueprint.”
There’s a lot more to that podcast and there’s a transcript so you can read it quickly.
I don’t think anyone who asks “Why haven’t we cured cancer?” really understands what cancer is. If they did, they’d understand that a cure isn’t in mixing some herbs or supplements.
A five year survival rate is very good. I’ve had two friends who had breast cancer who are working on 10 years now with no signs of problems. They live normal healthy lives.
OK, now the wheels have clearly come off. Ron, you sound deranged and incoherent. Glad you finally took off the mask. It must have been downright painful trying to maintain the charade of being a sane person.
You are truly emblematic of Youngevity. Insane, revolting, deceitful, immoral, moronic, etc…
I may add John D. Rockefeller used an homeopath now why did he? why didn’t he just use hes own system he designed? If he didn’t can you provide me that he didn’t?
Why don’t you ask Rockefeller about the decision he made? Oh, he died 10 BEFORE the Frisbee was invented. Perhaps he would have made a different decision given today’s technologies.
My point is this Dr. Fata did what he did so what makes you say others can do the same thing? What happens then? Also people that go against the system seem to be called a quack M.D. can you explain me why they changed there ways? No one can just become and M.D. overnight and just up and change they look at other things because they know the system is not working and because they look at the evidence and of course you can’t think of why they change their ways that go against the system after they became a doctor from the start. Yet If you think It’s sooo great why don’t you become an Doctor then? seems like you are mister expert. I’m also adding to this how can Dr. Burzynski win a case just recently? oh wait hes quack like all you say well It takes alot of effort and documents to win a case does It not? you can’t win a case from thin air.
It seems like once again you can’t get on the topic of Youngevity and the article from the NY Times with experts on supplements that I’ve asked you about 3 times now.
Someone can drink a liter of vodka and kill someone in drunk driving. Obviously others can do the same thing. What happens then? The same that has always happened with drunk drivers who kill people. You seem to think that every person has to behave perfectly in every situation. There are over a million doctors in the United States, so why pick out one example? You’d need 100,000 more names to come up with just 10% that are bad.
I think you should understand how “the system” (your words) works. It’s a scientific process. It’s the kind of thing that allows us to communicate on computers over the internet on this website. That’s “the system.” Someone going against “the system” seems to think that they can talk into a pineapple and something magical will appear on the other end. There’s a lack of science to it. If there was science to it, other scientists would pick it up, test it, expand upon it, and if it worked, it would become the new “system.”
It’s funny to suggest that someone looking at the evidence doesn’t believe in evidence-based science. It’s like suggesting that someone looking at a mouse doesn’t believe in mice. Again, if there was evidence that anything else works, it would be part of the evidence-based science. However, there’s no evidence there.
Again, you seem to suggest that the system is not working. That “system” is the United States politics, not medicine itself. Numerous countries have very great healthcare that has nothing to do with supplements. There isn’t a single developed country that relies on supplements instead of medicine.
At this point in my life, and with the two children to look after, it really isn’t feasible for me to spend the next 12-13 years and half million dollars in school. Graduating at age 55 is not particularly ideal. I’m not saying that I want the life of a doctor either. Again, you are presenting an argument that is ridiculous.
You are really shedding a light on how illogical the Youngevity supporters are. It’s like you are saying, “Youngevity is so unsupportable, I’m going to make this ridiculous argument about health care that only pertains to the United States and one bad doctor.”
I covered Burzynski back in 2011, so you can leave comments related to him there. However, I couldn’t find any evidence of him winning a case recently. Maybe you can send a link so I can see where you are getting your information. I saw that he got sanctioned last year.
Actually people win court cases “from thin air” all the time. Sometimes a lawyer doesn’t dot an “i” or cross a “t.” Sometimes, it’s weird technicality. This is really taking things far off the topic of the health care realm that was already off the topic of Youngevity.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/hippocratic-oath-today.html
I don’t know about you but the classic version is better then what doctors do today. If you can’t see that then I don’t know what I can tell ya I guess you would like to be on drugs that never cure anything.
OK say what you say but one think that isn’t changing is this so how can you justif that healthcare is great
http://fortune.com/2018/02/09/us-life-expectancy-dropped-again/
Wow, that’s only about 5 corrections away from being a valid English sentence.
Again, that is United States’ life expectancy. I have already explained that the United States has political problems with how healthcare works. Healthcare and medicine does work well in many countries where they’ve made different political decisions. Once again, none of these countries rely on naturopaths instead of medicine.
five year survival rate is very good really? check my post above? show me people live longer thats what youngevity is about but sure if you dont wanna believe that fine by me. We will just wait and see what the outcome will be years from now. Doctors back then used do stuff that they did back then now we say are barbaric.
Considering how some cancers act, yes a five year survival rate is good. It’s all relative to the circumstances. If trapped in a cage with a hungry lion, a 5-minute survival rate might be good, right?
Youngevity doesn’t seem to have any large-scale clinical trials to show that their products help people live longer. It’s not that I don’t want to believe, but they don’t seem to want to do the basic science to give us the evidence. I thought you were a fan of evidence? However, when it comes to Youngevity, you seem to want to throw out facts and evidence and just go with what you believe.
You can wait and see what the outcome will be years from now. However, as that New York Times article has covered, we know what the outcome of vitamins is from decades of research. That’s a whole lot of nothing. Not sure why you’d expect it to change with Youngevity. It’s like believing that the Earth is flat after agreeing that we have all the evidence showing that it’s round. That’s your opinion and I guess you can have that if you want. It doesn’t make much sense to me.
If doctors and everything were right why hasn’t anything been solved? And them saying to live longer do this do that if they said that why hasn’t longevity improved? It has not. They have gotten things wrong and that one example and most likely more out there is when there was an backlash against butter aka cholesterol . Another thing is has obesity been solved? All they think about is cutting out the stomach which is known has gastric bypass does that solve anything? So I mistyped is this spelling school? You can’t understand what I see day In and day out sure being on 8 drugs is called good healthcare because that’s all that they do is give drugs and people are left not getting to the root cause of the problem . Healthcare is sickcare and If you want that for your life go ahead I have made my point here lazyman and vogel.
Ron wrote, “If doctors and everything were right why hasn’t anything been solved?”
I don’t know a single person who has gotten tuberculosis, polio, or smallpox. My friend’s 4-year old daughter had a heart defect repaired by a surgeon and she’s doing great. People are getting organ transplants, pacemakers, and all sorts of great medical advances. Almost everything you have written has been completely wrong, but this is a whole other beyond even that.
Ron wrote, “And them saying to live longer do this do that if they said that why hasn’t longevity improved? It has not.”
Have you looked at longevity over the last 100 years? It’s amazing the improvement! You are straight-up lying now.
I’ll admit that things haven’t continued improving in the last 2-3 years, but how do you pin that very recent trend on doctors? Are you telling me that they they were amazing for 97 years and then the last 3 they slacked off? Have you thought that it could be because people don’t (or can’t) listen to doctors. How many people are eating fast food while at sedentary desk jobs? Have you looked at obesity rates and thought, “Hey the doctors aren’t recommending that we get fat, maybe it is the people’s choices.”
Ron wrote, “They have gotten things wrong and that one example and most likely more out there is when there was an backlash against butter aka cholesterol.”
The human body is very complex and we are learning new things all the time. That’s the great thing about scientific progress. The cholesterol example seems to be one of the only ones of recent doctors being wrong because it was brought up in these comments before. Maybe someone will point out 1 in 10,000 medications (or whatever the percentage is) like Fen-Phen.
Again, we have all the advances above, so I’ll take a 99.99% success rate. And let’s keep in mind that during the 40 years that doctors were “wrong” about dietary cholesterol longevity was increasing a lot. On the other side of the coin, we’re still looking for the first thing that naturopathy has been shown to solve, aren’t we?
This is like comparing LeBron James to my 4 year old in basketball skill. It’s not even close.
Ron wrote, “Another thing is has obesity been solved? All they think about is cutting out the stomach which is known has gastric bypass does that solve anything?”
For the most part eating well and exercising solves obesity. As mentioned before, people choose to eat high sugar, high fat diets. They may prefer the taste rather than health benefits. Often those foods are cheaper than healthier options. They may not have time to exercise due to their careers and other responsibilities.
No sane person blames obesity on doctors. Then again, it was clear you left sanity long ago.
Also, I’m fairly sure they don’t cut out the stomach during gastric bypass, but you are the person who claims to do the research.
Ron wrote, “So I mistyped is this spelling school?”
It was around 5 errors in one sentence and it made no grammatical sense. I’ll give one or two typos in a paragraph because I make them myself, but several typos in your only ungrammatical sentence is worth calling out.
Ron wrote, “You can’t understand what I see day In and day out sure being on 8 drugs is called good healthcare because that’s all that they do is give drugs and people are left not getting to the root cause of the problem. Healthcare is sickcare and If you want that for your life go ahead I have made my point here lazyman and vogel.”
Usually at the point that someone is on 8 drugs, they are likely either A) fairly old, B) didn’t take care of themselves, or C) had extremely bad luck (i.e. kids with cancer). In the first two cases, there is really no root cause to get to. Doctors don’t have a time machine to go back and make people healthy. In the bad luck case, they are doing the best that humankind’s knowledge can do (excluding the cost of medical treatment issues).
You can get a lot of preventative healthcare if you look for it. Many healthcare insurance plans even subsidize gym memberships. Your doctor can probably give you a referral to a dietitian. That dietitian will laugh at Youngevity.
The one thing we do know is that we’ve spent billions studying supplements and they don’t work. So let’s close on that to make this relevant to the article again.
I have been using Youngevity products for over a year and I feel great! I am 62 years young, also raising my 12 year old grandaughter for the past 10 years.I raised 4 children before that. I keep up with her just fine and dandy. I will continue using Youngevity. God Bless!
Clearly, you were doing quite well raising your 12 year old granddaughter for the last 9ish years before you were using Youngevity.
This is like Lebron James saying that he wears Nikes and can dunk a basketball really well. Hint: It isn’t the shoes!
The medical industry is just that, an industry. Only designed to treat symptoms. They are not interested in fixing the problems because that hurts the bottom line.
The carnivore diet combined with Youngevity supplentation fixed just about everything for me. No sugar equals no inflammation and the eradication for my need for diabetic medications. All my lab values improved and 40 pounds down.
Don’t knock it till ya try it.
Peace
Actually, fixing problems helps the bottom line. If you can cure cancer you’d be the richest person in the world. Remember that the doctors treat their own spouses and children with the same medical treatments. Good luck with your view that they are letting their loved ones die.
MLM and pyramid vitamin selling is an industry and those vitamins are scientifically proven to be a waste of money.
Congrats on finding a good diet that works for you. I limit my added sugar as well, but I’m good with eating healthy fruit and vegetables (which contain sugar).
You can’t try everything, so save some time and eliminate the stuff that science has proven doesn’t work.
Peace
Younger4it said: “The medical industry is just that, an industry. Only designed to treat symptoms. They are not interested in fixing the problems because that hurts the bottom line.”
That’s a statement so moronic it could only have been uttered by a shill for Youngevity, or some other equally BS snake-oily pyramid-schemey scam. Why would a mechanic want to fix your car as that would only hurt the bottom line? Why would a restaurant want to feed you calories when that will only make you full and make you stop ordering food, thus hurting the bottom line? More importantly, why would Youngevity have any more incentive than an MD to cure anyone of anything when doing so would hurt their bottom line equally? Your product cures nothing and your dumb-as-F conspiracy theorizing is just painful to listen to.
Younger4it said: “The carnivore diet combined with Youngevity supplentation (sic) fixed just about everything for me.”
Youngevity fixes nothing. It never has and it never will. You are simply an evil anonymous shill doing the bidding of a bunch of simpleminded immoral shit-stains.
I tried 90 for life for six months and never felt a difference. I followed Dr. Wallace instructions exactly, and it did nothing for me. I think having a good diet and getting enough vitamins and minerals are important, but I’m not a supporter for overpaying for them…it may have worked for others but it didn’t work for me…and I couldn’t get my money back and it’s alot of money!!!
Tangy Tangerine is nothing but a expensive TANG powder. It is sold by a Pyramid Scheme Marketing Company. Tangy Tangerine is nothing but a placebo powder. Just because these companies list 90 plus ingredients does not mean the item has everything as listed. This company has not listed or published any scientific data or evidence showing this fake product actually works. If the placebo effect makes you feel better and you want to throw your money than keep throwing your money. Other sensible option would be to use the same money and invest in organic fruits and vegetables along with moderate exercise.
There is no magical cure for normal aging. Do more research on this fake product and make an educated decisions about your overall health. No one really knows what ingredients these fake products have, and may actually damage your kidneys slowly over time and put you on dialysis in your old age.
Oh man, I see that Youngevity is continuing in its efforts to diversify their product portfolio by offering up a slew of crap food products, as well as shitty women’s clothing, scrap-booking supplies, moronic supplements, and a dizzying assortment of other third-rate junk products. It’s basically like if Wal-Mart operated in hell and every aisle was filled with horrendously overpriced generic brands from China that no one would ever consider buying if they weren’t tied to a pyramid scheme.
Just to take one example illustrating how bad the value is, let’s look at their seasoning salt. They are selling a tiny 1.8-oz jar for a staggeringly high $9.93 retail.
https://youngevity.com/food-beverage/spices/salts.html
An 8-oz bottle of Lawry’s Seasoning Salt is selling right now at $2.28.
https://express.google.com/u/0/product/7186833345621830729_16017655704938758986_8175035
That works out to $5.52 an ounce for Youngevity’s crap versus 28.5 cents per ounce for Lawry’s – in other words, Youngevity sells a comparable product (giving them the benefit of the doubt; it’s no doubt inferior) at a 20-fold higher price.
The challenge for the Youngevity distributor is fin9idng someone dumb, gullible, and desperate enough to buy this crap despite it being an obviously horrendous deal. That’s where the pyramid scheme aspect, and all the lies about becoming wealthy, comes in.
Virtually everything in the Youngevity portfolio is as abysmal a value as their supplements and spice mixes. But it’s not just the bad value proposition one has to consider. The people behind this company are so sleazy and dishonest one would have to be reckless to even consider ingesting one of their products. These are the kind of people who would feed poison to children and grandmas if they thought they could get away with it. Who the F knows what horrors might be lurking in a Youngevity bottle.
Just so you are aware. my dad is a Youngevity rep and the stuff really works. Dr. Wallachand his product called, Arthrydex saved us having to put our dog down. She lived another 4 years like a puppy and for that We say thank you to dr Wallach
I could just as easily say that I was going to die 5 years ago, but I ate a carrot and I’m still alive. There’s no causation link there, Cassie.
Cassie said: “Just so you are aware. my dad is a Youngevity rep and the stuff really works. Dr. Wallachand his product called, Arthrydex saved us having to put our dog down. She lived another 4 years like a puppy and for that We say thank you to dr Wallach.”
This off topic comment is how you respond to finding out that Youngevity is selling seasoning salt for 20-times retail? WTF? You sound like a malfunctioning auto-bot stuck on bootlick-mode, and you’re aiding and abating and idiotic scam with your farfetched one-dimensional testimonial, which is contemptible.
Ridiculously misleading and illegal snakeoil claims used to hype mundane ingredients/products for 25-times retail value, offered by dishonest predators to gullible rubes as the admission ticket for a rigged pyramid scheme. That in a nutshell is what you’re defending, so basically, you can take your Arthrydex and your fictitious puppy and stuff them both up Wallach’s lying arse.
Wow,
Lazy Man – Talk about not being thorough with your research.
I studied the 90 for LIfe Youngevity products, spent countless hours reading ingredients, listening to testimonials and finally after about 4 mos of research, decidedc to give it a try.
I was having problems with my knee. I’m in the fitness business and rely on my body for work. I was told I have a tear in my knee and will require surgery as I could not bend it without being in severe pain and it was always swollen.
I also woke up with Hives every day From August 1 until November. Which is what put me on the hunt for a natural cure. Going to 3 different specialists, I was told I have “auto immune disease” and would have to deal with it for the rest of my life using prescription drugs and shots.
This made no sense to me.
I bought the 90 for life, used the Tangy Tangerine as directed, within one week – Hives were gone and NEVER returned.
I also took the OSTEO FX which Dr. Wallach claims heals knee tears. Swelling went down and knee remains pain free for 3 years.
I am a distributor – not to make money, but to help people that have had similar issues and found no help using mainstream doctors.
I’ll gladly pay the 125.00 per month to keep myself in check and stay away from the doctor.
I consider the nutrition I receive from Youngevity part of my grocery bill.
I strongly disagree with your “lazy” answer.
Wow, I think I cited much better research than you. You didn’t present anything that we can evaluate to see if it’s truthful. It’s just the same as if you said you got visited by ghost aliens who improved your health. It doesn’t make any sense.
It’s one thing if you are paying $125 to stay away from the doctor, but remember that Youngevity isn’t medicine and does not keep you away from the doctor. So you are just spending $125 for the fun of spending $125. Might as well flush it down the toilet.
If my article and the hundreds of responses here qualifies as “lazy” in your eyes, what does your response look like?
Kelly Sprague (new guest) bitched: “Wow, Lazy Man – Talk about not being thorough with your research.”
Wow Kelly — talk about being a rude insufferable ass with no social grace and a complete inability to assess whether or not research is thorough.
Kelly Sprague bemoaned: “I studied the 90 for LIfe Youngevity products, spent countless hours reading ingredients, listening to testimonials and finally after about 4 mos of research, decidedc to give it a try.”
Reading a label of ingredients shouldn’t take countless hours unless you’re a really slow reader. Listening to testimonials is not “research”; more like “dumbing down”. We all are well aware that ridiculous lies about miraculous cures are the bread and butter of this shitty company’s marketing strategy. Shame on the lot of you!
Kelly Sprague (lying ineptly) said: “I was told I have a tear in my knee and will require surgery as I could not bend it without being in severe pain and it was always swollen…I also woke up with Hives every day From August 1 until November…I was told I have “auto immune disease”…I bought the 90 for life, used the Tangy Tangerine as directed, within one week – Hives were gone and NEVER returned…I also took the OSTEO FX which Dr. Wallach claims heals knee tears. Swelling went down and knee remains pain free for 3 years…I am a distributor.”
Wow! If that’s not the stupidest most appalling fairy tale about Youngevity I’ve ever heard, it’s pretty damn close. Your company’s laughable garbage products obviously don’t repair knee tears and it’s blatantly illegal for you to claim that they do, or that they cures hives, auto-immune disorders, or anything else. Again, shame on you, feckless lying parasite.
Kelly Sprague (like an obsequious lap dog) raved: “I’ll gladly pay the 125.00 per month to keep myself in check and stay away from the doctor.”
Funny how disembodied voices from MLM companies on the internet are so enthusiastic about burning huge sums of money. You sound like you’re either a Russian troll-bot or someone with Stockholm syndrome. Either way, burning $1300 a year on utterly absurd crap products from painfully dishonest MLM scammers would qualify one for a Darwin award nomination.
Kelly Sprague bloviated: “I strongly disagree with your “lazy” answer.”
You say that despite not directly challenging or contradicting a single word that Lazy Man wrote. You generate nothing but noise with no substance. You’re a scourge on society that we would all be better off without.
I guess you didn’t understand what I said. The products solved 2 issues within one week.
They worked for me. For you to state they are the same as garbage is your opinion which I don’t agree with. You did not take the products, you are just playing with words for the sake of writing your blog. That’s fine. I trust in my own practice and the results I have achieved.
Have a lazy day!
That points to it being the placebo effect or you lying. There’s no evidence of supplements solving medical issues any better than a placebo (or sugar pill).
If you understand how placebos work you’d understand that “They worked for me” is scientifically known as nonsense. I don’t need to eat every brand of bread to know it doesn’t cure cancer.
It’s okay to trust your own practice, but please don’t spread the virus to others until you understand that is likely the placebo effect that has been known for hundreds of years.
Kelly Sprague said: “I guess you didn’t understand what I said. The products solved 2 issues within one week.”
Didn’t understand??? We understand all too well. Another immoral parasitic desperado representing Youngevity came here with a BS claim so staggeringly laughable that it defied the imagination. You may as well have said that your cancer vanished 5 minutes after eating a bowl of Cap’N’Crunch. It’s hard to imagine that any sentient being could be that dumb in reality. You seem more like a third-rate Russian troll-bot or some kind of defective spam-generating software.
Even if you actually believed that this shit cured you of something, you have a responsibility as a distributor to not advertise the product using claims to that effect, as they are illegal; and you surely know that. The fact that you willfully ignore the law to promote Youngevity in this manner speaks volumes about your lack of character. It also shows that you’re a menace to society. So hopefully you can understand why I say a hearty and well-deserved F you to you, Wallach, and travesty of a company.
Kelly Sprague said: “They worked for me. For you to state they are the same as garbage is your opinion which I don’t agree with.”
We all know they didn’t “work” (i.e., miraculously cure chronic diseases) for you or for anyone else in the sordid history of Youngevity’s fraudulent MLM conspiracy. An ounce of commonsense is all it takes to dismiss your vapid BS out of hand. You’re too clueless to fathom that the burden of evidence rests with you to support these extraordinary marketing claims that defy logic, commonsense, and basic science.
Kelly Sprague said: “You did not take the products, you are just playing with words for the sake of writing your blog. That’s fine. I trust in my own practice and the results I have achieved.”
No one should take the products under any circumstances – EVER! Only an idiot would be fleeced by such laughably transparent snakeoil salesmen. Shame on you and the rest of your worthless parasitic brethren of dimwit con artists.
If you were content to merely believe in your own experience, you never would have come here in the first place. No, instead it’s quite obvious that you came here to specifically do damage control and marketing; and not just any marketing mind you but specifically to deceive people into believing that your horrendous shit products miraculously cure diseases.
I could maybe understand why you would turn off your brain and moral reasoning if you actually got rich selling Youngevity’s garbage, but the sad part is, you do all this indefensible shit for pennies. You lie profusely; exploit friends, family and strangers alike; and knowingly contribute to injuring people — and you do it all for next to nothing.
With you, this isn’t about a debate or a free exchange of opinions. It’s a war of rationality and US law on one side, and on the other, lying scammer assholes who would sell out their grandmas for a quick buck and who are predators in our communities.
Kelly Sprague said: “Have a lazy day!”
Take your smarmy insincere passive aggressive BS and stick it with the sun don’t shine, scammer! I hope the painful reality of your miserable lot in life (i.e., deluded MLM snakeoil parasite) weighs you down so much that you can’t muster the energy to con anyone else.
I understand the placebo effect. If you are going to throw that into this than what’s the point of your blog? You can say everything is either the placebo or the nocebo..
You just like to argue.
The stuff works! Take it from people that use it. Will it work for everything probably not, but it has a place and I Thank God for it.
I had a guy who suffered with Arthritis, and fibromyalgia ask me about my supplements. He said he’d been to numerous doctors and was taking 8-10 motrin a day for pain. It was having a very negative effect on his work life.
His daughter bought him the 90 for life one month supply as a gift, as she hoped it would help him.
The guy called me after 3 weeks on the products and said they were a “miracle” he as finally pain free after 10 years. No more Motrin, no more doctor visits. Best he’s felt in a decade.
I cannot deny that his quality of life has improved as well as mine.
I don’t care about your bullshit science argument. I’m giving you real life cases and you dispute them.
Enjoy your one sided blog…
If you understand the placebo effect, then you’d know that “This is what it did for me” means nothing about the products being effective. We saw the same things being said about MonaVie in 2008 and in the courts it came out that it was little more than sugar water.
If the products really work, where are the clinical trials showing that they work for anything? If the products worked, Youngevity would be putting them together all over the place and show people statistically that they’ve got the solution to some health problems. They’ve never done anything like that. Probably because they know it’s a lot better to fool people with anecdotal claims.
Did you know that these health claims are illegal? Yep, Truth in Advertising has it covered: https://www.truthinadvertising.org/dsa-ignoring-illegal-health-claims/.
Also notable in that Truth in Advertising report is that MLM companies seem to have the magic cure for almost anything if you listen to their paid distributors illegal health claims.
I understand that you don’t care for my science argument. However, let’s presume that someone is reading these comments with an open mind. They SHOULD care about the science if they are paying for products in hopes of improving their health. Otherwise why not just rub some dirt on it. That’s free.
We can’t trust that your real life case is truthful and we can’t trust that it isn’t part of the 33% placebo effect group. We can trust that in study after study science has determined that supplements are a waste of money
Kelly Sprague said: “I understand the placebo effect.”
No, you clearly do not understand, because if you did, you would know why the threadbare nonsense you try to use to con people doesn’t fly even remotely in the absence of legit evidence (or even a vaguely plausible premise).
Kelly Sprague said: “The stuff works! Take it from people that use it.”
I’ll “take it” the day you can provide a shred of evidence that what you say is even remotely true. But for years now, you ridiculous voodoo/snakeoil-pushing a-holes keep recycling the same insulting and illegal BS about how your cheap chemical garbage cures literally everything.
Kelly Sprague said: “Will it work for everything, probably not”
Probably? Probably??? Can you not hear yourself, fool?
Kelly Sprague said: “…but it has a place and I Thank God for it.”
Leave the Almighty out of this. If anything can be rightly described as the work of Satan, it’s Youngevity.
Kelly Sprague said: “I had a guy who suffered with Arthritis, and fibromyalgia ask me about my supplements. He said he’d been to numerous doctors and was taking 8-10 motrin a day for pain…The guy called me after 3 weeks on the products and said they were a “miracle” he as finally pain free after 10 years. No more Motrin, no more doctor visits.”
It galls me to no end that I have to be the one to remind you that your marketing claims are completely illegal. You bottom-feeding parasites are so detestable that you’d sell your own mother for a buck. Painful to witness.
Kelly Sprague said: “I don’t care about your bullshit science argument.”
Right, because science says you’re a disgraceful liar.
Kelly Sprague said: “I’m giving you real life cases and you dispute them.”
You gave us nothing but the equivalent of some crude stick figures you drew with a crayon. Do you even have an inkling of what adults with 3-digit IQs consider to be believable evidence?
Kelly Sprague said: “Enjoy your one sided blog…”
Revel in the misery of being a liar and a poorly-paid whore for an exploitative fraudulent enterprise.
Are you telling me that because “Science tells you supplements are wast of money” you stand behind this statement?
Come onnnnnnnnnn! W T F is science? When it comes to supplements.
Supplements don’t have a chance in hell in America.
We as a nation thrive on keeping people sick! It’s illegal to say a supplement works, God Forbid!
But we can Lie, poison and screw over every American who EATS in our country.
Pull up to the pharmacy with your pile of prescriptions that just keep putting band-aids on chronic illness.
Joel Wallach ‘s main idea is based on “every illness is a vitamin or mineral deficiency, if we had the proper balance of vitamins and minerals at any given moment, the body knows how to take care of itself. When we are lacking, we are in for trouble.
He performed over 38.,000 autopsies on over 400 different species of animal and over 3000 on human beings. He discovered many trends which led him to the conclusions that our organs or the organs of these animals do not function properly when the environment in which they live is vitamin/mineral deficient.
All the pet food you buy today has vitamin and minerals added and for the most part our animal population have close to none of our health problems.
He has a good point! Do you think going to a doctor for a chronic illness is the answer?
Do you think relying on our food supply is good enough?
All the major health organizations such as the FDA, ACS are backed by deep pockets that want to keep us sick and dumb.
Your “science” is a tool for your typing that’s it. NO T TRUSTWORTHY when you know the sources.
I don’t solicit Youngevity to anyone, but if they ask me what I take, I most certainly tell them my experience with it. I’ve told about 8 people that have purchased a months supply over the past 2 years. These are people that have had some sort of illness that bothers them and received no relief from their doctor. In conversation have brought this up to me and asked me what I take. At least 6 of the 8 have shared with me notable improvements. Do you really think I’d sit here and respond to this post on a Sunday night to lie to you? or do you think I have something to say because I actually do have my own positive experience with this which contradicts your post.
I’m sure you have an ailment somewhere, why don’t you give it a try for 30 days and write from a personal point of view.
“Come onnnnnnnnnn! W T F is science? When it comes to supplements.”
It’s tens thousands of studies involving hundreds of thousands of scientists. The numbers are actually probably in the millions, but I want to be conservative.
“Supplements don’t have a chance in hell in America. We as a nation thrive on keeping people sick! It’s illegal to say a supplement works, God Forbid!”
No one wants to keep people sick. This is one of the biggest lie that Youngevity people tell. It’s like doctors want to keep their wives, parents, and kids sick to hide some magic cure from us ever finding out.
It’s not illegal to say that a supplement works… as long as there is scientific proof. You can make a claim about calcium and vitamin D for bones as one example. You can make a case of vitamin C against scurvy as another.
However, consumers need to be protected from snake oil salesmen. Thus it was decided that we need to have proof. Pretty much every top country agrees with this method. That’s because it simply makes sense.
“But we can Lie, poison and screw over every American who EATS in our country.”
I’m pretty sure that a restaurant poisoning people eating there would be illegal. If you read my article, you’d see that Wallach has been caught in a number of obvious lies by the medical community.
“Pull up to the pharmacy with your pile of prescriptions that just keep putting band-aids on chronic illness.”
If you can prove that anything works better, you’ll be the richest woman in the world. Unfortunately, no one else can find anything else that even works as a band-aid.
“Joel Wallach‘s main idea is based on ‘every illness is a vitamin or mineral deficiency’, if we had the proper balance of vitamins and minerals at any given moment, the body knows how to take care of itself. When we are lacking, we are in for trouble.”
That’s a fine idea to start with, except that again millions of case studies from around the world show that it’s simply not accurate. The body doesn’t know how to take care of itself. It has been designed to degrade over time. There are very few 80 year olds who say, “Hey my body took care of itself and is just like I was 18.”
“He performed over 38.,000 autopsies on over 400 different species of animal and over 3000 on human beings. He discovered many trends which led him to the conclusions that our organs or the organs of these animals do not function properly when the environment in which they live is vitamin/mineral deficient.”
I covered the 38,000 autopsy myth before. Autopsies take 2 to 4 hours (source) each, so assuming 3 hours on average, he could do 3-4 a day if he worked 9-12 hours with no breaks. Let’s assume he works 12 hour days and gets 4 done. That’s 9500 days worth of autopsies. That works out to be 26 straight years of 12 hour days without breaks, and no days off.
If we take a more realistic 9 hour day to get 3 done (maybe he took a break for lunch) and worked 250 days a year (taking weekends off and a small vacation) it would be 50 years of autopsies.
I hope we can both agree that this claim is practically mathematically impossible and requires extraordinary proof.
“All the pet food you buy today has vitamin and minerals added and for the most part our animal population have close to none of our health problems.”
We have vitamin-D milk, iodized salt, calciu-fortified orange juice. We’ve had Total cereal (reasonably priced!) since the 1961. You could probably save yourself $1000 a year by just eating that instead.
However, I works with dogs every day (not in a medical capacity) and I can tell you that they get arthritis and soreness as they get older just as humans do. Sadly, they get cancer too.
“He has a good point! Do you think going to a doctor for a chronic illness is the answer? Do you think relying on our food supply is good enough?”
I think going to a doctor makes more sense than supplements that are proven not to work. Just because you have doubts about one thing… it doesn’t mean the other thing is any better. Our knowledge of healthy eating is much better than it has been in the past when we just relied on a meat and potato diet.
“All the major health organizations such as the FDA, ACS are backed by deep pockets that want to keep us sick and dumb.”
There’s some evidence of organizations that are backed by deep pockets. For years sugar companies (and soda) tried to get people to look the other way. However, health organizations like FDA and ACS do want to keep us sick and dumb. That’s some propeganda from Youngevity, because it seems to only come from their distributors. I think it’s fair to say that no one else believes this nonsense.
“Your ‘science’ is a tool for your typing that’s it. NO T TRUSTWORTHY when you know the sources.”
Again, this meta-review of the science is just one example of thousands of underlying sources with tens of thousands of scientists. Are you suggesting that nearly every researcher and study is not trustworthy? And we’re supposed to believe the tall tales of Wallach?
“I don’t solicit Youngevity to anyone, but if they ask me what I take, I most certainly tell them my experience with it. I’ve told about 8 people that have purchased a months supply over the past 2 years. These are people that have had some sort of illness that bothers them and received no relief from their doctor. In conversation have brought this up to me and asked me what I take. At least 6 of the 8 have shared with me notable improvements. Do you really think I’d sit here and respond to this post on a Sunday night to lie to you? or do you think I have something to say because I actually do have my own positive experience with this which contradicts your post.”
I think maybe you could believe something due to the placebo effect. Do you think I’d spend my time on a Sunday night trying to show you that you’ve been supplied a bunch of erroneous misinformation?
“I’m sure you have an ailment somewhere, why don’t you give it a try for 30 days and write from a personal point of view.”
I don’t have one. However, even if I did, I would say to everyone, “Please do not listen to my personal point of view on anything related to supplements, because the placebo effect makes it meaningless.” Then I would pause and say, “It makes no sense to share my point of view in this case, because it could be meaningless. Obviously the company doesn’t believe in its product enough to do large-scale clinical studies. If they don’t believe in their product, neither should you.”
Kelly Sprague said: “Come onnnnnnnnnn! W T F is science?”
LOL! It’s an academic discipline and mode of reasoning that you know nothing about.
That ignorant comment sheds some light into your particular brand of pathological ignorance.
Kelly Sprague said: “Supplements don’t have a chance in hell in America.”
You’re talking about a $32B industry (projected to top $60B by 2021). Is there nothing too stupid to get screened by your BS filter? I suspect that you, unlike normal people, don’t possess one.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidlariviere/2013/04/18/nutritional-supplements-flexing-their-muscles-as-growth-industry/#15d985488845
Kelly Sprague said: “It’s illegal to say a supplement works, God Forbid!”
No Pollyanna, it’s illegal to say that ANY product cures a disease unless appropriate evidence has been reviewed and approved by the FDA. That’s US law. If abiding by the law that everyone else is expected to abide by stresses you out, tough shit!
Kelly Sprague said: “But we can Lie, poison and screw over every American who EATS in our country.”
Ah, I get it now. Therein lies the rub for you. You’re not raging against any real injustice. You’re just pissed at even the notion that another industry might have an easier time lying to, poisoning, and screwing people over than you do.
Kelly Sprague said: “Joel Wallach ‘s main idea is based on…”
BS. Everything that comes out of Wallach’s mouth is either some painfully banal truism or complete and utter self-serving BS.
Kelly Sprague said: “He performed over 38.,000 autopsies on over 400 different species of animal and over 3000 on human beings.”
Did someone drop you on your head as a child? Aside from lacking even a stitch of evidence, this BS claim isn’t even mathematically possible. But one would have to have an inkling of basic arithmetic to realize it; so that counts you out. He’s not even an MD, so it’s also unfathomable that he would have performed even one human autopsy.
Kelly Sprague said: “I don’t solicit Youngevity to anyone…”
WTF??? No one asked you to come here — well, none of us did anyway — maybe someone on your crooked side of the fence did. Nonetheless, you are soliciting the hell out of it. Nauseating to witness too.
Kelly Sprague said: “Do you really think I’d sit here and respond to this post on a Sunday night to lie to you?
The desperation and pathological moral deficiency you have displayed so far tell us all without a grain of uncertainty that you would post here 24-7 for weeks on end if you thought that it would benefit you financially in the slightest; and by slightest I mean even a few dollars (since the unskilled labor of idiots like you is worth about a dime an hour). I shudder to think of all the reprehensible low-life things you would do for paltry sums of money. Ick!
Kelly Sprague said: “I’m sure you have an ailment somewhere, why don’t you give it a try for 30 days and write from a personal point of view.”
Wow! Just now you said you weren’t soliciting and earlier today you said “will it work for everything, probably not” — and now you’re soliciting people who suffer from virtually “anything” to simply throw away their money and give it to people like you and the stupid undeserving fucks at Youngevity. You’re mad as a hatter!
Who or what is writing your comments, Kelly? A six-year-old child? A chimpanzee? Your spelling and grammar are almost as atrocious as your fallacious logic. I suggest you spare yourself further embarrassment and cease further posts. Do yourself a favor and listen to what Lazy Man and Vogel have already written.
Close minded
You would rather site USELESS
Studies rather than take the word of people actually using the products and through their personal experience having a positive result.
Go ahead and copy and paste and be rude as f!
Everything I stated w regard to me actually happened.
So I d g a shit about your rebuttal Vogel
Have fun bitching at people that will never believe you.
The problem is that if you give 100 people any health product, some 33 will say it helped it due to the placebo effect. The 67% move on with their life and you never hear from them. So you get caught in an echo chamber of the 33 thinking that represents proof that the product works.
Have you watched the 6-minute video about Dove’s Beauty Patch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqIW4uN-J6Y
You came here an bitched at this blog. I didn’t come to you and start insulting you. I only tried to help educate you.
Kelly Sprague said: “Close minded”
Pot meet kettle! You, are the poster child for close-mindedness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
You came here spouting a pile of transparent nonsense so egregiously stupid that it was an insult to everyone’s intelligence, and now you have the gall to accuse people of being close minded for not eagerly lapping up all of your mind-numbing BS? Just amazing!
Kelly Sprague said: “You would rather site USELESS studies…”
Not to be too pedantic in the face of all the stupid and false statements you’ve made since yesterday, but the word you were groping for is “cite” not “site”. You never said why it is that you dismiss science out of hand. In fact, you admitted that you don’t even understand what science is.
Kelly Sprague said: “…rather than take the word of people actually using the products and through their personal experience having a positive result.”
We didn’t hear “the word of people actually using the products”. We saw some written second-hand claims from a self-serving distributor who we know nothing about except that they are dishonest and dumb as F, and have no compunction about breaking the law. It’s like watching some kind of bizarre and disturbing performance art from a parallel universe.
Kelly Sprague said: “So I d g a shit about your rebuttal Vogel.”
If you didn’t care greatly about all the criticism your company has received here, you never would have bothered posting in the first place, let alone all the multiple hysterical follow-up posts, unless you just like pissing into the wind. Maybe you’ll “g a shit” if I promise to report one of your partners in crime to the FDA and FTC every time you post BS here. You all deserve the punishment for trolling and being a menace to society.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/reportaproblem/ucm059315.htm
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/identity-theft-and-data-security/filing-complaint
Kelly Sprague said: “Have fun bitching at people that will never believe you.”
You’re only kidding yourself Kelly. You’re a Youngevity distributor, so there’s no point posturing that you’re the one most people are likely to believe. Your credibility is non-existent and you are without a doubt the object of scorn and ridicule on a daily basis as a result of your efforts to pitch this flipping nonsense to people, while desperately searching for that one in a million sucker who might be both desperate enough and woefully ignorant enough to fall for the scammery of a third-rate hack snakeoil hustler/pyramid schemer.
I’m not sure if this link/token will expire, but it currently works for me. I also confirmed it currently works in a different browser with the cache cleared.
How to Promote Youngevity
https://fpdl.vimeocdn.com/vimeo-prod-skyfire-std-us/01/378/8/201892640/683536289.mp4?token=1534338603-0x7da90915f159a7e09b8a27e3ad3e4934129928ac
I didn’t read through this article in it’s entirety, nor did I read through all of the back and forth comments. I’m not here to defend or attack Youngevity. I just came here to share what happened to me. No I’m not some undercover Youngevity agent or seller to try to tip the scales.
I am fairly young in my mid twenties. A couple of years ago, I was really sick. for about three months I couldn’t eat or drink anything other than sips of water and bits of bran cereal. I vomited everyday. I don’t know what I had or if it was severe or not but I lost a lot of weight very quickly. I was like an elderly person that was bed ridden. A friend told me about Youngevity. I don’t ever just take what people tell me to take ESPECIALLY with vitamins since so much of these areas are not properly regulated.
So I did some homework and started to hear about all of outrageous claims that it can cure cancer and such. Also hearing about it being a pyramid scheme. Obviously to me it was a scam and I didn’t trust it. I was desperate however and decided to give it a try. I can’t deny that after a few days of taking it, I felt so much better that the difference was like night and day. I no longer felt sick and no longer vomited and my bowels moved much better than before.
Now before people jump on that happy ending, hold your horses. Like I said, I’m not trying to put Youngevity on a pedestal because there are soo many factors that come into play here.
First off. For all I know, whatever I had, even though it was making me that sick, could have potentially been treated by any other vitamins that weren’t from Youngevity. In all honesty, I had mostly taken nausea, laxatives, heartburn and other types of medicines that had no effect other than temporary relief for a couple of hours. I hadn’t taken any other types of vitamins, supplements or anything from any other company. So who knows, maybe if I would have went into GNC I could have found something to do the same thing that Youngevity did for a cheaper price.
I guess what I’m saying is, Youngevity works in some effects but obviously not with the big claims such as cancer. I imagine this situation as someone selling grass from someone else lawn and claiming it’s a special herb for triple the price of other products. My biggest concern what was that the product was dangerous since there’s no true regulations.
Just because it worked for me, doesn’t mean it will work for everyone else. Just because they didn’t harm me, doesn’t mean they couldn’t harm anyone else. I don’t think that’s the case though. As the article above seems to indicate that it’s just a watered down version of other products sold at higher the price.
Do I think Youngevity is a scam to this day? Yup. Do I think that the product works? On minor things yes. However there are no sources of proper testing that is open and available to the public. With any product, if all you hear are the claims of how it works and not of its failures, then you can bet the claims are either lies or over exaggerations. Because even products that are big in name have people complaining about the things that don’t work.
Jason said: “I am fairly young in my mid twenties. A couple of years ago, I was really sick. for about three months I couldn’t eat or drink anything other than sips of water and bits of bran cereal. I vomited everyday. I don’t know what I had or if it was severe or not but I lost a lot of weight very quickly.”
Jason said: “Do I think that the product works? On minor things yes.”
Three months of vomiting, anorexia, and severe weight loss is FAR from minor. A trip to the doctor would have been the obvious course of action; not taking YGYIs BS overpriced snakeoil pyramid scheme supplements.
I would no sooner believe any of the claims above about it alleviating chronic vomiting/anorexia than I would a story about how it could make people fly or turn invisible. Anonymous unverifiable testimonials are utterly worthless. Worse than worthless, they run counter to logic/science and hence scream “scam”.
You are so stupid i am not even going to comment other than to say, don’t take any of Dr. Wallach s minerals, we don’t want you around any longer, so get sick. You gray headed, bald deficient jerk. I have worked in medicine for 52 years now, have studied nutrition for the last 21 years. Can you help a midget start to grow again, a downs 9 year old start to talk, and then be the top of the class at age 17, an autistic 5 year old that could speak, start talking in 4 months and after 4 years also at the top of the class. Also, i have fixed many people with diabetes, congestive heart failure an lots more for a few dollars
Ask your Dr to do that.
I am 72, my wife and I have taken no medication for the last 22 years, we have not been sick with anything and 21 years ago we each had an autoimmune disease which was gone in about 3 months
So go crawl back into your cave and shut up, you don’t know very much about what you are talking about
I guess people like Sam are the ones who support Youngevity.
Stark raving lunatics? No doubt one of their chief target demographics. Youngevity is at the intersection where snakeoil and angry paranoid delusional conspiracy theories converge.
You have spoken well for the medical Doctors. I need you to clearly affirm here that you were not paid a dime by anyone to do this blog. Our society needs constructive criticisms. Our health care delivery system will not advance without this. Constructive criticism makes room for improvements. After-all, science is so vast. In comparism, what we know is far less than a tip of the iceberg of what we don’t know what we know. Painfully however, your goal appears to be an attempt to take the Naturopathic Doctors off the back of Allopathic Doctors as you weren’t educating the public but fighting medical nutrition. Are you aware that medical errors and malpractices by Doctors are among the top leading cause of death in America. Painfully, you seem to be hunting with wrong dog. Are you not on the same path with Rockefeller and Carnegie Foundations who empowered AMA, stripping all other forms of health care delivery – Allopathic , Homeopathic, Chiropractic etc and eventually shut down what they considered to be alternative health care practitioners, calling them quacks? You would need to convince me that you are not blood thirsty. Why? – your claims may lead to the death of unsuspecting millions and if you don’t care, then you are heartless, a sociopath and a psychopath who cannot protect any soul. Your claim that all Dr Wallach’s research findings were anecdotal is share wickedness. What about all his qualified health claims as approved by FDA. Was he not instrumental in the use of folic acid for antenatal? Whose reach findings led to the cause of cystic fibrosis. If not for Dr Wallach, the ‘father’ of the science of Epi-genetics, would the world not still be thinking that Chronic diseases are genetic, whereas they are epigenetic? Who made use of his research findings, got FDA through the Supreme court of the United States to compel Baby food manufacturers to add Selenium to Baby food to reduce infant mortality? Who found cure for over 900 animal diseases in US : http://collections.si.edu/search/results.htm?q=record_ID:siris_sil_176638 Are you saying that the research findings with which he won all the 12 lawsuits most of them going up to the Supreme court against FDA? The list is endless. You do know the huge cost of medical nutrition research especially when filling with FDA. Research funds is always channeled to the Allopathic practitioners, virtually none to Medical Nutrition. When the system deliberately failed to regulate the practice of medical nutrition, at the same time, calling it alternative medicine, I cannot but think there is a deliberate plan to ensure uneven playing field for health practitioners, favoring medical doctors at the expense of others. Why not talk about the so many failed medical theories? We were not once told by medical practitioners that cigarette is medicinal? What about egg which they claim would elevate cholesterol? Was this not what led to rise in Alzheimer’s when statin drugs were introduced to lower cholesterol? Why are we still using chemotherapy when it does not work 97% of the time? Would you say that the medical Doctors know how to cure acid reflux? Do they know that administering antacids will exacerbate the situation? Was it not the Naturopathic research works which revealed the real cause of acid reflux is Hypochlorhydria? Were we not told that high sodium intake will elevate blood pressure, whereas cutback on salt intake with lead to acid reflux? The total cost of health care delivery in America is more than that of the world put together despite advanced research findings by the Allopathic system. Tell me what is the number of deaths in America, caused by the so called alternative medical practitioners? Just very few. I have been a Pastor for over 40 years and have done too many funerals most of them, unnecessary deaths and have been wondering why until I met Dr Wallach and Peter Glidden. With these products, I have literarily seen people bounce back to life from intensive care units. For me not to have introduced the products to these people is tantamount to death sentence. Suffered from sinus for over 50 years but got my healing from taking just 1 Heathy Body start pak. We are not saying that Dr Wallach is the only manufacture of good supplements. However, your assessment of Beyond Tangerine make me doubt whether you have any exposure to the science behind essential nutrition – 60 minerals, 16 vitamins, 12 amino acids and 3 essential fatty acids. There is no brand of mineral supplement as potent as Beyond Tangy Tangerine. You would need to eat so many baskets of fruits to get what is in Beyond Tangy Tangerine. I laughed when you attempt to prove that the liquid form of the supplements cannot increase absorption. Plant derived minerals for instance is liquid and colloidal phytonutrients. So many of the OTC supplements are made from metallic minerals. You would be shocked to know that some of them have absorption rates less that 20%. They would have to wrapped with amino acids to increase the absorption rates to about 40 and at that point, they become expensive. Minerals do not occur equally on the entire surface of the soil across the world This is why there is soil mapping to determine what soil has what mineral. If these minerals are not present, the plants just cannot have them. Soil is the only source of minerals. It is not what you eat but what you absorb. It is not in the fruits and vegetables you eat but what is in the soil where they were planted. Most Agric farms in America, farmed over 100 years have lost most of its minerals due to the use of chemicals. Therefore, carrots for instance, from these soils taste blind compared with the tasty ones imported from countries with preserved soils. As for EFA you claimed to be cheaper, I would want to know if the Omega 3 & 6 are balanced ratio 1:1 otherwise there could be elevated triglycerides. Secondly, all oils will oxidize when exposed to air. Was this produced and product packaged with technology that keeps away oxygen? Youngevity is traded on NY exchange which meant open publication of their Balance Sheet. Just take a look at their Balance sheet since they became publicly traded. The profit is not a big deal – average EBITDA, not bloated profit as your blog tend to suggest. Yes, they pay commission to independent distributors to ensure that the products gets to the end users. Dr Joel Wallach does not earn a dime from the sale of Youngevity products. Think about that.
Did you read the beginning of the article? A reader asked me if I had looked into so I was simply just addressing his/her question. He/she (I forget because I think it’s been nearly 10 years now) didn’t offer me any money (and I didn’t accept any money).
I’m pretty sure that Joel Wallach earns money from the sale Youngevity products.
Lazy Man, you must have the patience of Job to even deign to reply to this raving lunatic conspiracy theorist. Apparently they don’t teach paragraphs and spelling to these semi-literate twits, who try in vain to defend snake oil MLM scams. So much BS it would take a day to respond to it all. Better to just flush and be rid of the unsightly mess.
How anyone could stoop to defending pathetic scammers like Wallach and Glidden beggars the imagination.
I only read the first few lines and the last few lines. I can only imagine the word soup in the middle.
I was trying to get an honest evaluation of this product, however reading how disrespectful Lazy Man is of other persons points of view only confirms the intellectual dishonesty of Lazy Man and Vogal as his side kick; Mr Ed. The irony of your handle is so apropos. In the meantime, I will do my own research as this site is proving to be just another bought off Big Pharma Fake News waste of time. Although I agree with much of what Esel says, it doesn’t make sense that Dr. Wallach isn’t making money as he should. That raised a red flag for me on what people are being led to believe about Mr. Wallach. Unless you are a Karl Marx Communist, we should all be proud to make a profit but at the same time ethical about how we make our money. Employing or giving opportunities for people to make a living is a good thing.
I’m actually quite respectful to people who present logical arguments instead of personal attacks.
Why on Earth do you think that Wallach isn’t making money from Youngevity?!?! What audit statements are you reviewing and where can I get them?
I’ve said numerous times why I wrote the article. Big Pharma hasn’t paid me anything. This article isn’t even about Big Pharma. Why would they pay me?
It’s good to employ people. However, MLM/pyramid schemes are not a good thing. Look for a company where people are paid a straight percentage for sales. Stay away from a system where people have downlines of recruits. If you must buy the products, buy them from Ebay to avoid getting caught in that mess.
Just as Doc Wallach’s reality is filtered through his need to sell products; yours, “Lazy Man,” is filtered through your need to denounce natural healing processes (something, by the way, Hippocrates would abjectly disagree with you about).
[Editor’s Response: I don’t denounce the natural healing processes. This website is about personal finance, it has nothing to do with natural healing processes. However, if you get certain large lacerations or break an arm, you should probably get stitches or a cast. Also compare an 8 year olds abilities to deal with falls with an 80 year olds. There’s a limit to natural healing processes – and unbiased scientists are united in saying that supplements don’t play a role in these.
Finally, it’s probably best to avoid using Hipposcrates as your measuring stick for health. Consider that he was around more than 2000 ago. It would be like comparing paper airplanes to today’s 747s… except that paper wasn’t invented until 200 years after he died.]
Certainly doctors have their place. A quick acting ER team saved my life in ’05 after a severe, life threatening, horse training accident. However, over the course of my life, I’ve cured my own scoliosis, cured severe IBS and its components, reduced high blood pressure back to the norm and below, set and healed two broken legs (tibias), four broken metatarsals, two dislocated shoulders, one detached shoulder, cured a severe testicular hernia, reduced common colds to an average of one every five or so years (in spite of working with small children in one of my interests as a substitute teacher), defeated a bout with chronic blood poisoning, and more.
[Editor’s Response: Congratulations, I guess. Some people build their own cell phones too. If that’s your thing, great for you. I think we should agree that a large portion, 99.9% or more, should go see doctors.]
At seventy-one years old I know of no one else in my age bracket anywhere near my level of health and vitality, and I weight much the same as I did upon high school graduation. Virtually all of this is done by acknowledging that the body is ready to go to work healing itself once its been assaulted.
[Editor’s Response: At age 71, you probably also realize that your body isn’t healed to its 21 year old form. Presumably, you also eat well and excercised. These are all good things unrelated to the topic of Youngevity in this article.]
In a business I had for some thirty years I had many doctor for clients as well as friends – several of whom were very prominent in their respective fields; one world renowned. In conversation with some of them, even they are willing to acknowledge what the body in concert with the mind has to offer in the way of healing itself. But, unfortunately, most of current civilization has not been introduced let alone conditioned to the process. Doctors do damage control – that’s their business, and many, if not most, are, thankfully, quite good at it. But they’re not healers – you, me, and the understanding of the way our body works, is what heals.
[Editor’s Response: There are plenty of doctors in the business of prevention. You can get a doctorate in nutrition. There are many sports medicine doctors out there. However, again, this is not on the topic of Youngevity.]
I think, LM, if you truly want knowledge in this area, you first need to get out of your own way, and be infinitely more inquisitive rather than dogmatic – which is how I arrived at many of the solutions to the issues I wrestled with for the first half of my own life.
[Editor’s Response: I don’t think you really understand what my knowledge in this area is. I’m actually extremely inquisitive. In fact, few people are inquisitive enough to study MLM scams and the dangers associated with them as a hobby.]
It’s apparent that you lack objectivity (And, by the way, I’m a certified professional ghostwriter; I recognize things in people’s writings that most would not.) and are dealing with this issue in a very a priori manner.
[Editor’s Response: If you find that I’m not objective, it’s because scientists agree that supplements are a waste of money. It’s almost as universally understood as the earth being round. Since they’ve put millions more man-hours in their research, it’s going to bias my opinion. It should also bias yours. If it doesn’t I guess stick to your lucky rabbit’s foot and tin foil hat.]
So, where is your research going to lead you? …Where you want it to. I’m going to be publishing (likely an Amazon quickie) my fifth book, entitled ‘[Editor’s Note: redacted]’ this summer, with an eye to have it live before the end of the year. I hope you enjoy the read.
[Editor’s Response: Ahh and now we get to your real reason for writing here. You did say anything about Youngevity at all except after the first 5 words. You just thought you’d stop buy to promote your book. It’s apparent that you lack objectivity too.]
Phew! That was a close one, right Editor? Now that you can assign an ulterior motive to his posts, you can dismiss all his points. They no longer matter.
Well Paul Bovino’s points weren’t on the topic of the article, so I could also dismiss his points as not mattering for that reason. The ulterior motive was just the cherry on top.
Seems both sides need to show proof, don’t they?
The author (nobody cares to know his name) needs lessons in hypocrisy and how to avoid it.
What’s the proof of Youngevity working for anything better than a placebo again?
This sounds like someone saying, “Seems like both ‘flat earthers’ and ’round earthers’ show proof.”
Why do you think I’m hypocritical?
I still haven’t found all the past Youngevity users saying the products DIDN’T work. Where are they, Lazy Man? Dr. Wallach has been selling the 90 essential minerals and vitamins for a VERY long time now. There should be THOUSANDS of testimonies about how the product didn’t improve their health. You keep pointing to “science” declaring that supplements don’t work. Supplements. What’s that? What does that even mean? Okay, they studied some “supplements” and couldn’t prove they made people healthy. What were they? Was it Youngevity’s 90 for Life product that the scientists triumphantly declared “don’t work”? It surely must have been, for you to be so confident in telling people who’ve improved their health through it, that they’re all merely experiencing a “placebo effect.”
I’ve personally experienced your presumed placebo effect. I used to get sick every time a sickness went through my house. We are a family of 6. I noticed, after taking Tangy Tangerine for several months, that I was getting skipped in the sicknesses. So, being the engineer that I am, I began experimenting. When my wife or kids were sick, I drank from their cups, and finished their leftovers with their utensils. I wanted to see if it was all in my head or not. I still didn’t get sick. So then I went off it for 2 years. Everything went right back to the way it was. Cold goes through the family, I get it too. Flu, same thing. After deciding that sucked, I went back on the Tangy Tangerine. I’ve been back on it for 3 years now, and not one sickness – even though every cold and flu goes through my house. I know you don’t care and will simply dismiss my testimony as anecdotal evidence, and can then say “anecdotal evidence doesn’t count.” That’s fine. I will happily continue with my “placebo effect” while you are free to continue to get the flu shot every year and still have a 50/50 shot at getting the flu. You’ll show us brainwashed Youngevity sheep that we’re wrong no matter how much it works for us.
You know what? If M&M’s cured cancer through a “placebo effect,” then SO BE IT. Would you tell dying cancer patients that they’re stupid if they want to eat M&Ms and be cured? Nevermind, I already know your answer.
Shane said, “I still haven’t found all the past Youngevity users saying the products DIDN’T work. Where are they, Lazy Man?”
With MLM we don’t know who is a snake oil customer and who is a snake oil seller. Since snake oil has been figured out for more than a hundred years, there probably aren’t people dumb enough to pay big money to try snake oil. Those who do are probably too embarrassed to say much.
The world works where the burden of proof is that things have be shown to work. I can’t pee on toast, claim that it works, and then say, “Where are all the people who say my pee-toast product DIDN’T work.”
Shane said, “Dr. Wallach has been selling the 90 essential minerals and vitamins for a VERY long time now. There should be THOUSANDS of testimonies about how the product didn’t improve their health.”
Centrum has sales are thousands of times more and I don’t see any of these testimonies either. So I guess, by your logic, we can AT LEAST AGREE to save money and buy a cheaper brand of vitamins not involved in pyramid selling.
Shane said, “You keep pointing to ‘science’ declaring that supplements don’t work. Supplements. What’s that? What does that even mean? Okay, they studied some ‘supplements’ and couldn’t prove they made people healthy. What were they?
You can read all the studies, but many of them consist of meta-analysis of many studies. So you are looking at hundreds of studies over millions of people in total. Again, the scientists are very adamant about the conclusion, Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements
Shane said, “Was it Youngevity’s 90 for Life product that the scientists triumphantly declared ‘don’t work’? It surely must have been, for you to be so confident in telling people who’ve improved their health through it, that they’re all merely experiencing a ‘placebo effect.'”
So other people’s pee-toast didn’t work for you? Have you tried my pee-toast? It’s different pee-toast!
Remember that research organazations found that thousands of illegal health claims are present by nearly all health MLMs – including Youngevity.
It seems pretty simple to me:
1. Supplements don’t work
2. MLM miracle cures are everywhere, yet everyone is still getting sick and there are no documented cases of people getting better.
But, hey, that’s just my opinion. You are welcome to believe that the world is flat. I can’t stop you.
Shane said, “You know what? If M&M’s cured cancer through a ‘placebo effect,’ then SO BE IT. Would you tell dying cancer patients that they’re stupid if they want to eat M&Ms and be cured? Nevermind, I already know your answer.”
We know that M&M’s don’t cure cancer through a placebo effect. That’s the point. In fact, it’s dangerous and deadly thinking because it prevents people from getting real medical help until it is too late.
Shane said: “I still haven’t found all the past Youngevity users saying the products DIDN’T work. Where are they, Lazy Man?…There should be THOUSANDS of testimonies about how the product didn’t improve their health.”
I’ll take a huge leap of faith and give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not just a complete F-ing idiot for asking that question, but rather a typically dishonest Youngevity distributor who understands full well why negative testimonials aren’t promoted in the same manner as positive testimonials (i.e., reporting bias, incentives to lie, etc.). Regardless, any testimonial alleging disease-mitigating benefits of Youngevity products are: (a) illegal, (b) totally implausible, and (c) disavowed by Youngevity.
Shane said: “I began experimenting. When my wife or kids were sick, I drank from their cups, and finished their leftovers with their utensils. I wanted to see if it was all in my head or not. I still didn’t get sick.”
I spoke too soon. You are a complete F-ing idiot. Stupidest story EV-UR! Why not lick out the toilet while you were at it.
Shane said: “You know what? If M&M’s cured cancer through a “placebo effect,” then SO BE IT.”
Yep, complete F-ing idiot.
Emblematic of the consistently low caliber of societal dross that Youngevity attracts.
Shane, I can tell you the answer to your question because I have read all the new comments in this thread since I commented and Vogel went to my personal facebook page to attempt to find personal information about my family to use in his attack against my “pro-Youngevity” comment. No one has ever written a comment here saying they used the products and it did nothing for them. As a matter of fact, the author here and his best friend Vogel have never even tried the product. Maybe they should both try the products for three months themselves and write their own analysis. You can buy Youngevity from Amazon, you do not need a MLM distributor, so the MLM/pyramid excuses are pointless.
That would definitely add some weight to their stance should they continue to keep it. Relentlessly pointing to ambiguous studies on the generic topic of “supplements” is a weak argument in the face of the parade of people who’s own experiences prove otherwise.
Melanie,
If someone wants to Paypal me around $40,000, I can try products from all 158 MLM companies making illegal health claims.
I don’t quite know how to pull this off because how long should I try the products?
It would take me 3 years if I just gave them a week. Is that enough time?
I feel pretty healthy now, so would I expect to run faster or jump higher if it “worked”?
How would I know that I am not experiencing the placebo effect if I say that I felt something?
What would the control be for our scientific experiment?
If I report that I didn’t notice any changes, would you even believe me or would you say, “Oh he’s just lying?”
What about the people who say, “Everyone is different, it doesn’t work for everyone?” which I must have heard a hundred times.
Did you stop to think for 30 seconds about how silly the “never tried the product” is? Have you ever tried my pee-toast?
My friend Lattimore has some excellent bear repellent pills he sells. No one has ever been eaten by a bear on the same day that they’ve taken his pill.
Melanie Banks said: “Vogel went to my personal facebook page to attempt to find personal information about my family to use in his attack against my “pro-Youngevity” comment.”
You mean the Facebook page of yours that was plastered with advertising pitches for Youngevity? Interesting how you gloss over the fact that you lied about not being a distributor.
https://www.facebook.com/melanie.banks.731/posts/10206528123104992
BTW, I didn’t attack a “pro-Youngevity comment” per se. I simply dismantled the empty self-serving promotional claims of a lying fool.
Melanie Banks said: “As a matter of fact, the author here and his best friend Vogel have never even tried the product. Maybe they should both try the products for three months themselves and write their own analysis. You can buy Youngevity from Amazon, you do not need a MLM distributor, so the MLM/pyramid excuses are pointless.”
You clearly have no idea about science or U.S. supplement regulations. The onus is on Youngevity to back up any promotional claims that they and their distributors make about the products; and by “back up” I obviously mean high quality controlled clinical trials (as the law requires), not worthless throwaway anonymous testimonials (i.e., the same type of fairy tales that have been the bread and butter of snake oil purveyors in the U.S. since the 1800s).
Of course, that will never happen because the charlatans at Youngevity know full well that their products have no medicinal value whatsoever. Their business model does not involved offering thoroughly validated medicinal products; rather it is a simple pyramid scheme that uses worthless BS supplements as an admission ticket – a carbon copy of the dozens of other health-related MLM scams that similarly offer overpriced worthless BS as a miracle cure in an effort to convince gullible rubes to part with their money.
So no, I am obviously not about to waste a penny on Youngevity’s insultingly moronic products, just like I wouldn’t waste a penny on any other deceptively marketed products sold by conniving snake oil scammers. Wouldn’t it be wonderful for you and the rest of the Youngevity shills though if we did – i.e., completely ignore commonsense and plunk down our hard earned cash on the BS you market as a cure for everything from Alzheimer’s to Zika virus? And it’s not just my disdain for burning money that stops me from trying Youngevity’s products. I wouldn’t trust these con artists enough to ingest anything they have to offer. When a company knowingly breaks the law by marketing fake disease cures, they are not to be trusted under any circumstances. Consuming their untested BS products is too much like Russian roulette for my taste. Rather than earn my trust, they have presented themselves as completely disreputable — a shit stain on society.
So instead of imploring people to suspend disbelief, ignore evidence and commonsense, and fork over their money for fake medicine, how about you and ilk simply comply with the law and stop making BS disease cure claims that the company knows are bogus and obviously has no interest in ever attempting to validate.
BTW, while I think the world of Lazy Man, I’ve never even met him, so I think it’s safe to say that I’m not in fact his “best friend” as you alleged. You’re just such an over-the-top dick halfwit that you can’t resist resorting to petty sarcasm in lieu of having anything remotely constructive to say.
Melanie Banks said: “You can buy Youngevity from Amazon, you do not need a MLM distributor, so the MLM/pyramid excuses are pointless.”
Troglodyte! Should anyone really have to explain to you that buying the products from Amazon still supports the parasitic company that’s running the pyramid scheme? And after everything I’ve written blowing the lid off this patently moronic and pernicious scam, how could you possibly be stupid enough to implore me to buy the products anyway? Is your head filled with sawdust?
I swear, there must be a secret IQ test that people have to take to become a Youngevity distributor, on which a score remotely approaching 3 digits is immediately disqualifying.
There are only 4 types of people who push this BS: (1) idiots (2) a-holes (3) idiotic a-holes, and (4) a-holes who only pretend to be idiots. Sadly, I don’t think Melanie and Shane are pretending.
I once worked for the corporate office of Youngevity International. As a former CSR, I can tell you that purchasing the product through a third party such as Amazon is not safe. If a distributor (whom by the way is basically a 1099 Independent contractor) sells products he bought and owned on a site, Youngevity policy states you will need to contact the seller, and you cannot get a direct refund. Also you do not know if the product was tampered with if it didnt come directly from the warehouse. All products that are ordered from Youngevity through a user account ships directly from their warehouses and not from an individual’s home.
Secondly, during my employment there, I can say that there is a high markup of atleast 60-90 percent of the value. There I can confirm Lazyman’s analysis is realistic in terms of cost.
Thirdly, I have tried the products for over 3 months. While I did feel the difference, I also had side effects and has to decrease the dose. They also offer us tester samples, and on those days I feel i had too much minerals and supplements for the day. They would tell us we “will be okay, and the body will just flush it out.” However, any day or two that I would miss a dose of multivitamins, I would feel like I was having a craving for the supplement. It was odd. The supplements did not reduce any risk of catching the flu or reducing allergies or any other health condition I have experienced. They ultimately believe the product can heal, however do not encourage active lifestyle changes in their marketing while taking a supplement. Reason is, legally the consumer needs to seek a medical professional for advice, and it will not be legally sound for any CSR or worker to do so unless certified to do so. However the information the site and any CSR will give you is really read from a paper script. We are not allowed to tell you anything that isn’t approved by corporate. It is frowned upon and we have people in corporate that can tap into the calls at any point of the conversation.
Lastly, although there are some benefit to supplements, as this article stated it is unreasonably priced. During my time with Youngevity, I have heard many instances that distributors are calling to sign up a friend or someone they just met into the program. I could feel the pressure these consumers felt when entering their information to make a purchase. I say that maybe out of ten new distributor signups, maybe 4 will call back to cancel their autoship because they cannot afford it, or they were promised a good turn out and it didn’t happen. Of maybe 10 new customer accounts created online, maybe 8 will cancel or discontinue. Popular reasons I heard was because it was, “too expensive”, “didn’t like the taste” (the BTT advertises that it is ‘great tasting’) or they felt it wasn’t working they way it was advertised to them by a distributor.
In conclusion, whilst this is more of a financial and strategic article focused on MLM, Youngevity does have an impact on how others perceive quality of life. I feel that if it works for you, great, and if not then that’s okay too… However, awareness and research is vital to allow us to make the choices a good one.
Calling an MLM distributor a 1099 independent contractor is a little false. 1099 independent contractors typically make money on the first day of the job. Some 99% of MLMers never make a profit. They are probably technically independent contractors, but you’d be far better off with any kind of minimum wage job.
The contractors are the victims, because they believe they are getting involved in a real business, but MLM is not a business. I think buying product from Amazon is relatively safe… they sell all kinds of foods and supplements. If it’s unsafe, then the finger needs to be pointed at Youngevity. If they can’t do what thousands of other companies do, that’s their fault.
I’m very big in doing things if they work for you. However, don’t involve others in pyramid selling where 99% of people are losing money. It’s just shitty thing to do someone else. That’s not about doing something because it works for you, but it’s doing something to harm someone else.
I was looking up youngevity and stumbled upon this blog. I have bought their product on occasion. I do not subscribe or push their product and I am not a fan of MLM’s although I have been associated with a few, and got out of them. I have no interest in, nor do I like any MLM or direct marketing program.
I am commenting not on the virtues of supplements or not supplements, but rather the tone of this blog. People have free will. they have the right to load up on supplements if they choose. Or they have the right to believe every word their Doctor, the AMA, The CDC or the FDA tell them. its free choice. However the berating and bullying of people of express their personal opinions is second only to the current house of representatives. I am so tired of people hating any one who has a differing viewpoint. from the tone of your blog I could make the statement that Ford produced the first affordable mass produced car. therefore its the only car you need. If you should choose to buy a BMW instead, it accomplishes the same purpose, is made from the same materials, burns the same fuel, rides on the same tires, but at 3 times the price. Therefore, if you don’t buy a Ford you must be (in the words of Vogel): (1) idiots (2) a-holes (3) idiotic a-holes, and (4) a-holes who only pretend to be idiots.
Sorry, but the language and tone used I really can’t take you serious either.
Thank you Mr. Hinkley for pointing out how horrible Youngevity distributors have been hating me in the comments here. You think they go around and bash people who aren’t buying Centrum or Walmart supplements too?
Unapproved health claims about Youngevity products are deserving of all the vitriol everyone can muster, especially when they are used in a pyramid selling context. Again, feel free to go buy Centrum and ignore the doctor if you want, but we can ALL agree to limit consumer harm by rallying against unapproved health claims and pyramid selling, right?
Please avoid another car analogy. There’s an experience with the process of driving a certain car – something that can be done for many hours over the lifetime of the car. There is not a reason difference that people make a buying decision over in taking one pill vs. another… and that process is just a second or two each day.
Participating in the comments of this blog is free choice too.
David Hincley said: “From the tone of your blog I could make the statement that Ford produced the first affordable mass produced car. therefore its the only car you need.”
It is extremely dishonest to invent such an asinine straw-man argument out of thin air and then, to add insult to injury, blame it on the “tone of this blog”. You made this woefully dumb irrelevant statement of your own free will. You own it.
David Hinkley said: “If you should choose to buy a BMW instead, it accomplishes the same purpose, is made from the same materials, burns the same fuel, rides on the same tires, but at 3 times the price.”
The only one here who is say anything akin to a Ford Model-T (“the first affordable mass produced car”) being “the only car you need” or that it is comparable to a modern BMW is you; and again, it’s a moronic straw-man argument.
It must be pointed out that (a) any BMW and Ford models can be reliably compared based on objectively quantifiable specifications; and (b) Youngevity charges the equivalent of Lamborghini prices for a skateboard with a broken axle and a wheel missing.
David Hinkley: “Therefore, if you don’t buy a Ford you must be (in the words of Vogel): (1) idiots (2) a-holes (3) idiotic a-holes, and (4) a-holes who only pretend to be idiots.”
Nothing wrong with buying a Ford or a BMW. You clearly fall into category #3 — bona fide a-hole not merely pretending to be an idiot.
Youngevity supplements are formulated differently than any other product on the market. You disregarded that the EFAS are processed under nitrogen gas to maintain the potency which most if not any other companies do, due to price. Also, minerals used I believe in all products, but not for sure, are plant derived minerals which if a whole different level of absorbability by the body than chelates, made from rock, minerals, which also contributes to price. You get what you pay for. Other products don’t come close to promoting, supporting and maintaining the body. Appears you might need more understanding of these products and Dr Wallach’s expertise before you go comparing and bashing. That’s why Youngevity distributors sound defensive and angry at your remarks because we know you’re misadvised.
Dear “Me” using the email a fake, anonymous email address,
What are your sources? You didn’t list any. This article is more than 7 years old and has more than 1500 comments and I don’t believe these types of processing techniques that you claim have ever been mentioned. They certainly haven’t been verified by independent third parties and tested to be more effective than other vitamins, right? I mean if they were, you’d show us the information. It’s not enough to just try to show that they are formulated differently (which I’m not sure they are). You have to show that it’s an improvement that directly PROVES better health outcomes.
You might as well be saying that if throw them out the window, a magic beanstalk will grow and you’ll be able to get a goose that lays a golden egg. That seems just as plausible if we don’t have any sources.
Dr. Wallach’s lack of expertise has been extensively covered around the web.
If I’m misadvised, then again, provide the independent proof stating specifically the case. I’ve cited my sources and you can review those experts.
Me said: “Youngevity supplements are formulated differently than any other product on the market.”
Oh really? Please enlighten us.
Me said: “You disregarded that the EFAS are processed under nitrogen gas to maintain the potency which most if not any other companies do, due to price.”
So the difference in formulation that you griped about (and the difference in price) boils down to an unsubstantiated claim that Youngevity processes EFAs under nitrogen gas (with no accompanying evidence that they in fact do so)? Purging with nitrogen gas is incredibly inexpensive, and taking steps to avoid degradation of EFAs is a fairly standard industry procedure. Youngevity’s EFAs aren’t USP grade and their products are both vastly inferior and horrifically overpriced relative to EFA supplements that are USP grade. We have discussed this too in great length already. Your EFAs are so cheap and unreliable that they are more likely to cause harm than benefit.
It also must be pointed out that EFAs are only one of the hundreds of shitty horrifically overpriced products that Youngevity sells, and you can’t use a single example like this to make a sweeping defense of the company based on the vague premise that the “supplements are formulated differently”.
Me said: “Also, minerals used I believe in all products, but not for sure, are plant derived minerals which if a whole different level of absorbability by the body than chelates, made from rock, minerals, which also contributes to price.”
Given that you’re unsure, you shouldn’t be commenting. We’ve already blown apart the “humic shale” BS – i.e., the source of Youngevity’s alleged “plant- derived” minerals. There is no evidence nor scientifically valid reason to think that Youngevity’s minerals are absorbed better than those in any other mineral supplement, and they certainly wouldn’t justify any price premium. Quite the contrary, knowing that Youngevity’s products are peddled by idiots, third-rate charlatans, and chronic liars, there is every reason to suspect that they don’t even contain what they are alleged to contain. As a general rule for survival, avoid ingesting things offered by lying degenerate parasites.
Me said: “You get what you pay for.”
Not with MLMs like Youngevity you don’t. You pay a steep premium – an idiot tax, in essence – for laughably inferior products.
Me said: “Other products don’t come close to promoting, supporting and maintaining the body.
Blah, blah, blah. Same droning hyperbolic BS, different day. Rinse, blather, repeat.
Me said: “Appears you might need more understanding of these products and Dr Wallach’s expertise before you go comparing and bashing.
Many of us here over the years have demonstrated a level of understanding of the products that far exceeds your own. As for expertise, Wallach has next to none. He’s a fossil, non-MD, pathological liar, and degenerate conman who is ham-fistedly playing the role of “expert” in an attempt to con rubes into a snake-oil pyramid scheme. The comparisons made here have been valid and the ensuing criticism entirely warranted.
Me said: “That’s why Youngevity distributors sound defensive and angry at your remarks because we know you’re misadvised.”
They sound defensive and angry because they don’t really have any other options in the face of overwhelming damning evidence, other than confessing or simply shutting the F up. You can’t defend that which is indefensible. If you don’t like being the object of scorn and ridicule, you should find a different pursuit – one that doesn’t involve lying/scamming, snake-oil, and pyramid scheming.
Great column. I’ve been hearing Dr. Joel Wallach on “Coast to Coast AM” for a while pushing his website, Critical Health News, and preaching his dangerous nonsense.
What raised red flags for me was learning he was a veterinarian, but claimed to have participated in numerous autopsies. Vets do necropsies on animals, not autopsies on humans. Then he claims to have written numerous research papers with his theories, but no one seems to be able to find more than a few.
The biggest laff about him is your description of his getting Clemson University in South Carolina involved with his “research”. Anyone aware of the institution knows it best as a college football mill and little more. You go there if what’s between your ears is muscle instead of brains. It ain’t Harvard (which Wallach derides), MIT, or Johns Hopkins.
No one takes Clemson seriously academically. Real research out of there is scarce. Its being suckered into supporting Wallach, however briefly, is no surprise.
Thought the context would be of interest.
My nephew recently came to stay with us for an extended period of time. His mother sent him some Youngevity products. She expected him to take these everyday. My concern is that too much of one vitamin, for example, vitamin A, could be toxic to his body. The products he was sent were as follows: Tangy Tangerine, Ocutiv, Purmeric, Synaptiv, Slender FX, Plant Derived Minerals, and Cal Toddy. As his current guardian, I have made an appointment with our family doctor to see what he recommends.
Given the company’s track record of dishonesty, malfeasance, and and quackery — and the lack of regulatory oversight — the prudent course of action would be to never ingest anything that Youngevity sells. You have no idea what kind of garbage they are putting into their products and what the risks of taking them might be. No need to eat up a GPs time with questions about pyramid scheme snakeoil when the answers are already crystal clear.
You wrote… “There is some credible information that some soil is deficient of vitamins”.
Some soil?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-aND-NUTRITION-LOSS/
and another
http://thehealthmoderator.com/u-s-agricultural-soil-depleted-85-percent-minerals-100-years/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237457488_Mineral_Nutrient_Depletion_in_US_Farm_and_Range_Soils
Plants make vitamins using CO2, H20, sunlight and minerals. It’s no small matter — farm soils are depleted of the essential materials we need for good health.
Why do farmers fertilize with NKP (nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus) every season? Can you live on nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus? You can if you’re a plant. But we need more minerals than plants and those minerals are never replaced in farm soil. If they’re not being replaced by the farmers, where do the minerals come from the next season? Are plants are now manufacturing essential minerals like iron, zinc, cobalt, copper, manganese, molybdenum, iodine, selenium, sulfur, chloride, boron, silicon, vanadium, nickel, to name a few? Plants don’t make minerals and farmers aren’t replacing them every season, so you must believe in magic.
Bad nutrition causes diseases, both physical and neurological. I urge you to read:
https://alternative-doctor.com/anti-aging/true-story-on-hunza-diet/
Ryan’s comment here is a good teaching example.
First there’s the Scientific American article. That’s a solid source, but I think it’s the only legit source I’ve ever seen about this. Compare to the number of articles on climate change for example. This source is now 8+ years old and no legitimate organization seems to think it is important enough an issue to follow up on it.
Second source is Health Moderator, which cites the “Nutrition Security Institute” that doesn’t seem to exist today. The website is no longer registered. Sounds like it was set up to trick people with a scientific sounding name around the topic. There’s no such thing as “nutrition security.”
Third source is from 2003. Again, 15 years old. Have to come up with something better than that.
The rest of it seems to build a case that modern farming techniques aren’t good, but we know that they are.
Most importantly, NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC OF YOUNGEVITY.
(Sorry to scream, but I think I’ve made this point dozens of times, but people still lack the comprehension to get it.)
Not that I support Youngevity, but I’m a stickler for good argument. Your first two critiques of Youngevity fail, and I didn’t bother continuing to read, but you compared Tangy Tangerine to PILLS. What if someone wants to DRINK their vitamins? This was NOT an apples to apples comparison.
Next, you said the bottle of TT was misleading because it said “with 115 fruits and vegetables.” When I read that, I automatically take it to mean, “with extracts from 115 fruits and vegetables.” What OTHER way is there to understand this? Granted, I guess it should say “with extracts” instead of just “with,” but really, what percentage of the populace do you think is dumb enough to think this means LITERALLY 115 fruits and vegetables ground up into the powder that fills one can of Tangy?
1. Get pill crusher for $5. Crush pills. Add to drink of your choice. Apples to Apples comparison, right?
2. You automatically add words that aren’t there? It’s been years since I wrote this, but from what you cited as my quote, it seems safe to assume that 115 fruits and vegetables were used to make each bottle. If it is just extracts of 115 fruits, we need to know how much of each fruit. The total number doesn’t matter if it’s all just a fraction of drop of each and the rest of the bottle is water.
As for the “percentage of the audience who are dumb enough…”, aren’t you referring to a product designed by a discredited veterinarian, sold via pyramid marketing where historically 99% of people lose money? If I’m wrong about any this, I’m happy to correct, but this is the best information I’ve been able to find and it’s well-cited in the article or other articles I’ve written on MLM (this last sentence is something my lawyer suggested to make it clear that this is my opinion from the research I’ve found.)
I certainly would think that someone who is intelligent enough to infer fruit extracts is intelligent to work a pill crush to drink vitamins, but here we are.
I know Lazy Man and Vogel don’t care (especially the mental midget Vogel whose sole form of argument is to attack with witness with venomous assaults of name calling and nothing refuting any of my claims), but FYI, still haven’t been sick. Everyone in my house who’s not on TT, and co-workers, all keep getting sick at the appropriate intervals that everybody not on TT get sick at.
Suck it, Vogel.
Shane said: “I know Lazy Man and Vogel don’t care (especially the mental midget Vogel whose sole form of argument is to attack with witness with venomous assaults of name calling and nothing refuting any of my claims), but FYI, still haven’t been sick. Everyone in my house who’s not on TT, and co-workers, all keep getting sick at the appropriate intervals that everybody not on TT get sick at. Suck it, Vogel.”
Although you’re a rancorous troll on an evil disinformation campaign, I don’t think anyone here is wishing for you to be sick. However, there’s no evidence nor remote reason to believe your claim is true, and even if it were, there’s no reason to think that TT played any role. In fact we can be pretty much certain that TT doesn’t prevent any diseases, and that those few shady faceless voices who proclaim otherwise on blogs like this are nothing more than dishonest shills working the pyramid scheme.
TT is a mundane scandalously overpriced product, the marketing of which couldn’t be more deceptive. The product and the company have been so thoroughly discredited that it’s hard to believe that YGYI still bothers to occasionally send its third-rate trolls here to make these feeble attempts at damage control (using wildly unbelievable and illegal miracle cure claims).
As for your mental midget comment, “Shane”, I’ve already proven many times over that I could intellectually crush you like an empty beer can with one hemisphere of my brain tied behind my back. The collective brain power of your entire organization would have a hard time lighting a match.
You have been posting here since March and haven’t made a single cogent point about anything yet. All you have done is claim that you haven’t been sick. Obviously, that’s not a compelling argument because it comes with no evidence whatsoever, and we know that this organization has a long history of leveraging preposterously stupid and blatantly illegal claims of medical benefit to market their laughably shitty products, much to the public’s detriment. We’ve exposed here the notoriously shady history of the people behind the company and shattered the wafer thin scientific veneer that masks your sordid enterprise.
You can now go back to your poorly remunerated day job of trying to con little old ladies out of their cancer meds money, and Lazy Man and I will go on fighting the good fight, keeping the public informed, and giving predators like you a richly deserved kick in the nuts. If you were a tad smarter and your moral compass wasn’t so badly bent, you’d find a better hill to die on than Mount Snakeoil.
All I know is that after taking the beyond tangy for a week I feel the difference and my energy levels have jumped like never in YEARS!
I AM NO SELLER AND AFFILIATED IN NO WAY WITH DR. JOEL WALLACH PRODUCTS OTHER THAN TAKING THEM.
Brett, how are we able to verify that energy levels are increased and that you have no affiliation with the company or Wallach?
Keep in mind that no one (that I’ve ever heard of or seen) has made these kind of claims about any supplement without caffeine in any of the tens of thousands of other supplements out there. However, you can usually see these claims in paid advertisements.
Hello, Lazy Man and Vogel! Thank you for all your comments! I’m sorry you have to deal with such challenging people, but greatly appreciate your efforts! Happy New Year!
Thanks Aaron. Your kind words are much appreciated. It has been a pleasure helping Lazy Man in his efforts to keep the public well informed . Best wishes for a happy New Year to you too. Cheers!
Thank you for digging into this.
I found it hard to figure out why Joel Wallach kept popping up in Coast to Coast AM every month. Your research has nailed it for me – marketing! God knows how much money he funnels to George Noory/C2C for that…
Editor’s Note: I’m adding some responses to this comment
Note on Doc wallach
I dont use or buy products but follow his dietary advice(which is free) and im much healthier then my army days
Guy is in his 80s does 400 lectures a year most of which are free to attend .
Editor’s Response: It appears Joel Wallach is 79, but that’s close enough for me. Doing 400 lectures a year is more than 1 a day, with no days off. Are these lectures documented. Which universities are he scheduled to lecture at for 2020? I’d like to see some example schools and what he’s lecturing about. Is it pet autopsies, which seems to me, his expertise.
Wallach has a book at the Smithsonian on the myth of “passing illness” down generations , ONLY in the Usa do they say disease is genetically inherited IE dad had cancer so will I likely. He did so by feeding a monkey a human diet and it developed cystic fibrosis which was thought to be ONLY aquired via genetics and DNA ,now India , Uk , EU (been to Uk and Eu doctors so can confirm 100% ) will tell you that theory is bullsh*t .
Editor’s Response: I don’t think Wallach has a book in the Smithsonian on the “myth” of “passing illnesses” down generations. What’s the book? Later you say you studied him for 15 years and we don’t have a book title. Science has long settled that some diseases are inherited. This is the kind of thing that was known over 100 years ago, when cars and flying were new things. You might as well claim that he has a book that says gravity and the wheel are fake news.
While on the topic of fake news, feeding a monkey a human diet and having it develop cystic fibrosis is bullsh*t on SOOOO many levels. We definitely need to see published proof of it. On the amazing chance that this bullsh*t happened once, we need to review at least a dozen other scientists replicating the results before we take it seriously. Please list the published journal articles of them.
Every time he has challenged FDA he has won
Editor’s Response: I’ve looked that claim up before, in other comments. It seems that’s simply not true.
Ygy was started in 97 to date never taken to court , no lawsuits and no malpractice claims in 40 years of him giving advice, considering his product line and its market even centrum has lawsuits , add to it the fact he goes on radio shows or his lectures and gives nutritional guidance free , still nobody claiming fraud or lawsuit
Editor’s Response: Umm, there are lawsuits involving Ygy and/or Wallach. As you mentioned above, the FDA is one example.
There’s another example of Ygy and Wallach being involved in a Supreme Court case: https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-20/104660/20190701164254125_No.__PetitionForAWritOfCertiorari.pdf
There’s another example here: https://behindmlm.com/companies/youngevity/dr-wallachs-sex-life-a-focal-point-in-youngevity-wakaya-lawsuit/
Also the Youngevity has been investigated by Truth in Advertising and it went VERY badly (IMO): https://www.truthinadvertising.org/what-you-should-know-about-youngevity/.
Here are a couple more examples:
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/20/12243002/michelle-van-etten-rnc-republican-convention-youngevity-trump
https://time.com/4560168/john-oliver-pyramid-scheme-last-week-tonight/
Note in that last link the words, “at least one Youngevity saleswoman in a corporate video, it is a ‘pyramid scheme thing.'”
His main product is 90 for life which is basically every nutrient found in the human body and gained through proper diet. Tangy tangerine is a booster and generally the other products are advised to address something specific and once the issue is gone stop using product B and just use 90 for life
Editor’s Response: Again, I can throw an orange in the ocean and the ocean will have vitamin C. Does that mean it gets in your body if you drink ocean water? That was rhetorical. Scientists have done the research and it’s conclusive: Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements.
If the other products are “advised to address something [health claim] specific” they are likely, in my opinion, illegally marketing the products as cure for health conditions. Since the company is a penny stock, worth under $50M as best I can tell (from the stock price), tennis player Novak Djokovic could buy them out with one year of salary.
Most of the nutritional stuff popping up in news like chicken nuggets give you cancer , facts about cholesterol, eggs, dairy products he had been saying the same thing in 80s and 90s tons of research is showing to be true now but he was 100% accurate 30 years prior. Selenium benefits he championed in early 80s as well as avoiding gluten .
Time magazine did article “Eat Butter” explaining how Crisco based study became bad advice from FDA and doctors when it was just marketing to cut into lard market , Wallach his whole career stated study was bs
Editor’s Response: Good for Wallach calling out BS. I call out BS as well, and I’m not selling you a product. I think that gives me more credibility than him, right?
This article shows a little of his history: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Joel_D._Wallach
I bring citations to most of my opinions. If you have a counter-option, please bring a reputable citation as well.
Ygy is partnered with a few radio companies so he showed up on Alex Jones , Coast to coast and gets pulled into random putlets when big health concerns
Editor’s Response: I guess radio media is very, very cheap nowadays. As I showed above the stock market considers the company worth less than 50M a year. It seems like that tennis guy could partner with the same radio companies and sell whatever BS product he wants to, right?
Look at current pic of him , does he look 80+ doing 400 shows a year?
Editor’s Response: He’s not 80+. A simple google search for his name shows he’s 79. I don’t mean to be nit picky, but this commenter says he spent 15 years studying him and/or the company… but he couldn’t do a simple Google Search for “Joel Wallach.” In less that 10 seconds, we can debunk what he claims he spent 15 years learning.
And again, I want to see more about the 400 “shows” (this changed from “lectures”). Give us a link to the list, right?
Became famous with audio cassettes “Dead doctors dont lie”
Editor’s Response: That’s a catchy title. I think an objective observer would say, that it was BS
Was challenged at a lecture by longtime skeptic guy who was an eye doctor on macular degeneration, wallach said if he failed the guy could humiliate him in public , he didn’t fail he succeeded above his own estimates . Doctor who challenged him made a CD called Seeing is Believing (on youtube its available) people who were “legally blind” now testing at 20/20 vision
Editor’s Response: In general, fraud people create a situation where they look successful. There’s no citations here behind a YouTube reference. This would be HEADLINE NEWS in EVERY MEDICAL JOURNAL… EVERY SINGLE ONE!!! Maybe not, but it would be a notable medical breakthrough, right?!
If Wallach can help people who are “legal blind” to have “20/20” vision, he would be making more than a billion dollars a year with his medical process. The company would not be worth less than $50M. Can we agree on that?
I was deployed when a cousin got into all this and was sure she was being scammed and i was goint to end up in prison for beating the hell out of a fraud
Editor’s Response: My wife may be deployed for the coronavirus tomorrow. You should have listened to your cousin (IMO).
The more I dug , the more legitimate he became , products im not sold on except 90 for life that i have seen do wonders in my own family and my cousin has a thriving home buisness and is in amazing health (used to be 375 lbs and just not healthy looking .
Editor’s Response: Seriously?!?! Where did you “dig”? I think it took less than a minute to find the problems with the claims. I haven’t taught my 7 year old how to use Google, but I believe he has the mental capacity (if he knew how to do the research) to determine that he is not legitimate.
Now the Pet products are Vet approved and ive seen the products at dog shows (sister is a veterinarian) and owners who file lawsuits if their best of show pooch dogfood doesn’t smell right absolutely adore the pet products
Editor’s Response: I don’t believe my vet has approved any of their products. I would like to check with your vet… please list his/her contact information so we can call them and verify your claim is accurate. You can sent it to me through the contI woact form.
I just want to verify these claims. That’s fair, right? You could also cite a medical journal for some evidence of your claim.
There is a bit more i could add but im getting rambly lol
I researched wallach / ygy for 15 years , all but 1 product and pet products i wont vouch for but he is solid
Editor’s Response: I would substitute “solid” with “Jell-o”. That’s a good assessment, right?
Lol sigh Theresa you went AntiVax , you just derped any credibility, only issue with pet vax is allergic reaction oi lololol
You derped your credibility in referencing the Smithsonian Bullship.
Here is article on Cystic fibrosis research and genetic disease
Editor’s Note: This link seems to go Youngevity affiliated website. It seems like a strange press release to me. Readers should make sure it’s in a medical journal.
Here’s a link: http://www.eagle-555-min.com/faq/faq79.htmHe
Editor’s Note: I edited the link, because I’m 98% sure this is a scam, in my opinon.
Lazy Man,
You stated you The American Cancer Society is reputable. Did you know that ACS was founded by none other than Rockefeller in 1913? Which only allows cancer to be treated by chemo, radiation & surgery and ever since has banned all cancer cures. And there have been many, but unfortunately, they will never allow a cure that would jeopardize their $100 billion dollar industry. And there have been many cures. If you’re curious to learn of a few [Editor’s Note: I’ve removed quackery claims for the welfare of the readers.]
This is what you should be blogging about, not supplements that occur in nature that can’t be patented by Big Pharma.
Obviously, this is a ridiculous false story.
Did you know that the American Cancer Society can’t ban any cancer treatments in the United States? It would be like saying that the Red Cross has banned blood in the United States. It’s simply not how anything works.
However, even if you doubt that, please understand that if there was a cancer cure, you could go to 200+ countries outside the US to get it. The only problem with that is that all those countries have cancer too. Cancer isn’t a United States problem.
Cancer also isn’t a United States’ “industry.” If anyone had a legitimate cancer cure, they’d make billions for themselves.
If supplements cured cancer, there would be no cancer in the USO because Americans inject lots of supplements. Please understand that supplements, like Centrum, are owned by Big Pharma, (in Centrum’s case Pfizer).
Lazy Man,
Obviously, you were too lazy to watch the documentary and instead simply brushed it off as you edited my original comment [Editor’s Note: I’ve removed quackery claims for the welfare of the readers.] How convenient of you to do so, and prevent reads from deciding for themselves. As for you comment “if there was a cancer cure, you could go to 200+ countries outside the US to get it”. We’ll by biased friend, you can. I’ll give you 2 examples that you can’t refute.
In that documentary you so conveniently edited “Forbidden Cures” it confirms that some of them, after being banned in the USA, went to countries like Mexico. To this day there are Gerson Clinics curing cancer via nutritional medicine in countries like Mexico, that Americans have been going to for decades and having their cancers cured. And if you don’t believe that, my wife a year ago was one of 15 test subjects for a breast cancer treatment that the FDA approved for a trial. And to this day thousands of women are being cured of breast cancer in India and other countries. (Link Removed). So, what happened to my wife and the other 15 women you ask? They all, including one that was stage 4, were cured of cancer. Then guess what happened after the trial was completed and the findings were submitted to the FDA. You guessed it, they denied/banned it in the USA and instructed them to ship the machines back to the UK.
You need to be more open minded and not assume Big Pharma is your friend. Big Pharma hijacked our healthcare back in 1912 to create a monopoly for allopathic/Big Pharma medicine after it was discovered in 1904 that pharmaceutical drugs could be made out of petroleum. And then entered Rockefeller. Read this blog Mr. Blogger: (Link Removed) This was when Benjamin Rush’s (founding father & signer of the Declaration of Independence) greatest fears came to fruition after he stated, “Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of Men and deny equal privileges to others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a Special privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom”.
Well my blogger friend that happened in 1912 when the other 4 medicines were legislatively eliminated after AMA was granted control. Except for Chiropractic Medicine in 1986 when Judge Susan Getzendanner found the AMA guilty of violating the Sherman Antitrust Act, which if you recall pertains to monopolies. That’s why health insurance can now cover Chiropractic procedures.
Now that you have confirmation that all this isn’t, as you stated, quackery, I recommend you actually watch that documentary “Forbidden Cures” and hold your opinions until the end. Note: they don’t start talking about the cures that have been banned until about 22 minutes into the documentary.
I truly want to know what you thing after watching it with an open mind.
You’re wasting your time, Matt. Lazy Man operates from the position of a final, undisputable conclusion. Therefore, all his posts are only to dismiss anything we say by pointing out that we are ignoring the undisputable final conclusion that he already came to years ago.
You cannot debate those who have already proclaimed, “the debate is over,” as so many of my lefty friends CONSTANTLY respond with in reply to any attempts at debate.
Ninja97,
You make a good point. It is very difficult to impossible to open a mind that is already closed. But there is always that slim chance, which I thought it might be worth affording to Lazy Man. Let’s cross our fingers ?
Matt,
You didn’t address the topic, Youngevity. Do you waste your time going on car blogs and spreading cancer conspiracy theories too?
I wasn’t too lazy to watch the video. Watching videos is no work at all.
I remove conspiracy theory videos because I don’t want people hurting themselves after they’ve read my article. If a video says that gravity doesn’t exist and people jump off a bridge to their death, I don’t want that on my conscience.
Please only use this space to discuss matters related to Youngevity. Cancer, Rockefeller, “Big Pharma” have no place in this discussion.
If there were some cancer cures that went to other countries, such as Mexico, they would surely spread to all 200+ countries. We’d be having a discussion that is roughly, “Why is cancer only an American disease? The rest of the world has solved it.” Let me know your blog that covers this, and I’ll read it an maybe comment on it.
Please keep in mind that Gerson clinics have been known as scams and quackery as long as 2006, probably even before that – https://quackwatch.org/cancer/reports/gerson/. Maybe you are being paid by Gerson. I know a few women in the US that are in breast cancer remission and I know no one who has died. The US is actually very good at treating breast cancer. You shouldn’t be suggesting that Mexico is better (but you seem to do that in your earlier comment) and citing a small sample size.
Here’s the true definition of open-mindededness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
I’m always open to new ideas. However, the ACS conspiracy theory can only be held by people who don’t understand very simple logic. I explained why it doesn’t make sense in a few sentences previously. Honestly, my 7 year old can follow the logic. You didn’t seem to disagree and just seemed to parrot the same conspiracy theory.
In any event, it seems like your motivation here is to change the subject from Youngevity. If you continue to try to undermine the topic, I’ll delete your comments.
Lazy Man, your response here is 100% correct – not that you needed me to say that, but there it is anyway.
Wow you took my entire letter and broke it into pieces and rearranged it into a butchered version of the original in order to pick it apart in accordance to your beliefs, lol.
Where do I start?
First: the documentary “Forbidden Cures” is a documentary of historical facts that anyone, including you, can confirm. You won’t find 1 theory in the entire documentary. But you still assume otherwise without even watching it.
And Rockefeller/Big Pharma completely has a place in this discussion. That is was the beginning of where allopathic medicine was given the monopoly on medicine in the USA and when the prior prevention and treatment of chronic illnesses with nutritional supplements was no longer considered a legal medicine. How can we talk about the current evolution of cars without mentioning Henry Ford? But that doesn’t fit your narrative so let’s delete the link for that blog in my comment. For the protection of your readers, right?
Your “open-mindedness” YouTube video was stupid and if I would have included it in my letter in favor of my argument, you would have deleted it, lol. You are the only one in this relationship that is closed minded.
And for you to say maybe I am paid by the Gerson Clinic is less believable than me accusing you of being paid by Big Pharma. Gerson Clinic is just one of many examples…
1st there was Rene Caissie in 1922
2nd there was Harry Hoxsey in 1924
3rd was Dr. Otto Warburg who won the Nobel Prize in 1931 for discovering another cure for cancer which isn’t even mentioned in the “Forbidden Cures” documentary.
4th was Dr. Max Gerson whose cancer cure also was also a proven cure for tuberculosis.
5th is Laetrile
There are several more I could list and maybe more I can’t.
I notice how you didn’t comment on the Cryotherapy breast cancer treatment trial my wife and 15 other patients were in that cured every one of them. Plus, you removed the link to the Channel 24 news report video that reports on the Israeli company that developed the procedure that has already cured breast cancer on hundreds of women. The news report even mentioned that trials were being done in the USA, which my wife and the other 15 person group were part of. So, I guess a Television new station is now part of a cancer conspiracy theory. I guess you’ll be accusing them of being paid by the Israeli company IceCure Innovating Cryotherapy Solutions to lie on TV. Or maybe I work for them and just made up that my wife had the procedure. Or even that I am lying that I have a wife. Why is it that maybe everyone that disagrees with you is lying or paid to lie, but nothing you say is a lie and that you aren’t being paid by anyone?
If you and your 7 year old claim to have so much logic, if you even have a 7 year old. Then how does the logic escape you that a $175,000,000,000 annual cancer treatment industry in the USA alone (you can google this fact, in case you wanted to claim this too is a conspiracy theory) wouldn’t want to take steps to protect & preserve their industry?
You do know that if a doctor in the USA were to try anything other than the approved chemo, radiation & surgery they would lose their license.
Actually, this cancer industry that employs hundreds of thousands of people has become so large that it needs its patients to survive. Doesn’t your common sense tell you that any industry tries to eliminate its competition. Just like Rockefeller did with Big Pharma Allopathic competition. One of which was Naturopathic Medicine.
I forgot about Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski who has been curing cancer in Houston, TX since 1976 using his antineoplaston therapy. The Texas Medical Board and FDA have been trying to put him out of business every since. Even you can confirm all this as factual without even having to watch the documentary on him: (link removed) which don’t forget to delete from my comment for the protection of your reads.
You are entitled to your own opinions and theories, but you aren’t entitled to your own set of facts.
Fact 1: What cures Scurvy? Answer: the essential vitamin C. Not a pain pill.
Fact 2: What cures Arthritis? Answer: essential mineral Calcium. Not an anti-inflammatory and/or auto-immune suppressant drug.
Fact 3: What cures Hypertension? Answer: essential minerals Calcium & Magnesium which allow the muscles in the artery walls to relax prior to each heartbeat. You might not have known that artery wall muscles contract when heart pumps to aid the heart in circulating blood through the body. But when once becomes deficient in either calcium or magnesium those muscle have difficulty contracting and remain in a constricted state which increases blood pressure just like a smaller garden hose has higher water pressure than a wider garden hose. Not a Beta-Blocker that instead slows down your heartbeat. Like turning down the water faucet. Sounds a little like common sense doesn’t it.
Fact 4: Big Pharma can’t patent something made by nature, like a rock or a mineral.
Fact 5: there is no law that says a doctor must provide a cure even if a cure is known and available. Prove me wrong.
Fact 6: Rockefeller founded the American Cancer Society in 1913, just after Congress gave the AMA exclusive control to define medicine in 1912, which eliminated the other 4 branches of Medicine.
Fact 7: Rockefeller gave more than $100 million to colleges and hospitals, and founded a philanthropic front group called “General Education Board” (GEB). In a very short time, medical colleges were all streamlined and homogenized. All the students were learning the same thing, and medicine was all about using patented drugs.
Scientists received huge grants to study how plants cured diseases, but their goal was to first identify which chemicals in the plant were effective, and then recreate a similar chemical –but not identical — in the lab that could be patented.
A pill for an ill became the mantra for modern medicine.
Fact 8: for the last 100 years the only 3 legal treatments for cancer are chemo, radiation & surgery. Common sense would tell you that with 100 years of advancement there would surely be other forms of treatment and cures without any forces restricting the art of healing of advancements in medicine, right. That’s why we are no longer driving Model Ts.
Fact 9: name me 1 drug, other than an antibiotic, that will cure anything. Answer: all pharmaceutical drugs simply manage the symptoms of chronic illnesses. A customer for life, right?
I could do this all night. But maybe ninja97 was right when she said that you operate “from the position of a final, undisputable conclusion” and your posts are “only to dismiss anything we say by pointing out that we are ignoring the undisputable final conclusion that you already came to years ago”.
But I think it is more than that. You go beyond just that. You actually edit my comments and delete sections of them. And you twist things I say while ignoring others that you can’t debate or debunk. Or make accusations of people commenting that they are paid off or lying, while providing no proof that you too aren’t lying or being paid off.
Matt,
Please keep your comments under 250 words at a time. Again, if you aren’t going to stay on topic, I’m going to have to start deleting your stuff – especially when it’s as long as most of my blog posts.
I kept this one, because it showed how uneducated you are in this. We know that scurvy is an nutrient deficiency disease that’s covered specifically on the FDA’s website. Nutrient deficiency diseases are well-known and studied. Cancer is very, very different.
As for curing arthritis, I don’t think calcium is a cure. If that’s the case, it mostly wouldn’t exist, since milk and cheese are widely consumed throughout the US. Here’s more on the that relationship from WebMD, which might be why you are confused.
I’m not going to waste my time on all the other “facts.” If Rockefeller gave $100 million to colleges and hospitals (which is probably true), then we end this discussion and declare him a hero. That’s a big donation to help a lot of people. Yes, streamlining health care is a great thing. It’s more efficient. We could use a lot more of that today.
Please try to avoid “common sense” of why we don’t have more cancer cures. As I said before, common sense shows that if someone has a cancer cure that worked, we’d all be using it. It wouldn’t be possible for nearly every doctor/medical professional in every country to suppress it. If you have a solution to cancer, then go with it and make yourself billions of dollars. You might have to leave the US, but there are lots of countries out there.
By the way, most of this Rockefeller stuff has been debunked years ago on this website – probably in this article. I’m not going to repeat it again.
It’s not crazy for me to suggest that you work for Gersoin clinic. You haven’t established a nearly 15 year of history of writing like I have. Do you think I’ve written 2 million words about personal finance over 15 years because Big Pharma pays me? I rarely write about health.
If you want to talk about Burzynski’s scam, I have an article on that, written long ago. At least that would be a better suited place than this post. I may actually move your comments there in the future.
I’m not going to comment on treatment than your wife had, since we can’t verify the truth of it. Can you show me which peer reviewed journal the results were published in?
Many local news affiliates (such as channel 24) pick up on small studies that often don’t pan out when applied to larger groups. That’s why I said it was a small sample size.
This isn’t the place to talk about the entire history of industries like medicine or cars. We’d never get anywhere. That why I said that you write about it on your blog and I’ll look at it there.
I give up. There’s nothing I or anyone else could say to change your mind that has already been made up, for whatever reason or agenda you have in doing so escapes me. To you everything that is contrary to your believes is in your mind either a scam or a conspiracy theory.
Again, ninja97 nailed it when she commented that I am wasting my time with you and that you operate from the position of a final undisputed conclusion.
You could show me the large scale, placebo-controlled studies that have been replicated by scientists all over the world. I simply asked for the peer-reviewed journal about your wife’s treatment and you couldn’t meet that low-lying fruit.
If you read my 2000 articles on this website, you wouldn’t think even 1% of contrary things to my mind is a scam or conspiracy theory. You are coming into this conversation some 10 years too late, so you’ve missed hundreds of hundreds of articles since then.
At this point, I just hope you don’t inject yourself with Lysol.
I had an EPIPHANY!!!!
I remembered how I came upon your Blog. I had done a google search regarding Youngevity and voila there your blog post was, on the very FIR$T page of Google. Which equates to big money for you, right?
[Editor’s Note/Response]: If you do a Google search for “Youngevity” all the results seem to come from the company. There are searches such as “lazy man youngevity” that would rank on the first page of Google. That’s not a common search.
You should be more specific with your search.
In the meantime, you should question what is going on the first page searches for “Youngevity.” Are the lawsuits against them coming up?
As for earnings on whatever you search was, you can see the blog income from all ~2500 posts with my combined dog sitting income. I am not making “big money.”
There the answer was to you & your girlfriend Vogel’s incessant defensive attacks on all comments that were pro Youngevity. Because if you were to concede to any of them, then logically I think you’d have to pull your high-ranking and income generating Google page 1 blog.
[Editor’s Note/Response]: I don’t know what Vogel looks like. It’s just like how I don’t know what you look like.
Please don’t make this into a political debate: “pro Youngevity” and “con Youngevity”. I’ve written about many pyramid schemes
Again, I there’s high-ranking and income generating involved with this article THAT DOES NEITHER.
Plus, right now on your Blog page I am looking at an ad for MD Anderson’s cancer treatment. Hence that income stream would end for you if you pulled this blog.
[Editor’s Note/Response]: My ads are from a third party company called, AdThrive. I have no input into what they display.
So, the answers can always be found by following the money, right? And I understand financially you are forced to defend your comments even in the face of surmountable facts and testimonies against your comments.
[Editor’s Note/Response]: What money are you talking about here? Did you write me or ask me? There’s no money to follow.
Imagine being stupid enough to compare beyond tangy tangerin with some worthless 10 dollar multivitamin.
[Editor’s Response: Worthless is your word. They are essentially very similar amounts of vitamins – which doesn’t even matter much because as I’ve cited from the meta-review of research studies – vitamins don’t do anything unless you have a confirmed deficiency, i.e. scurvy.]
I’m going to assume this author is either dead from covid or took the vaccine and will be dead soon.
[Editor’s Response: Nope, I’m alive and posted a new article yesterday. One is coming out tomorrow. Would have taken you 30 seconds to look it up. Also, as I have written, I did test positive for COVID on Saturday. I was already fine by the time I tested positive. I was sick for about four hours thanks to the vaccine and booster.]
2 comments in and he confirmed his suicide. He took the suicide jab. Because of course he did.
[Editor’s Response: Please see your last comment. I’m fine. Been vaccinated for about 11 months now. It’s fine.]
You posting that comment about “not injecting lysol” was just perfect man. It was blatantly obvious you ended your life with the suicide jab but that was some delicious frosting on the cake.
[Editor’s Response: I’m not sure where you got the idea that I’ve died.]
All this investigative skill you think you have and you can’t even figure out that Trump never said a word about injecting bleach. Classic. Just classic.
[Editor’s Response: Please see this article titled, “It’s been exactly one year since Trump suggested injecting bleach.”]
Lol. Love ? that users years later are still proclaiming the success of products that work. Before he deletes my comment I hope some people reading will get that censorship and trolls like this one are real and are paid by big Lharma to convince you that drugs are the answer to health while real food, vitamins and minerals mean nothing. I was cured by nutrition and Youngevity products helped, not drugs.
Again, I write a personal finance blog and I clearly explained why I cover MLM/pyramid schemes. I don’t write about medicine at all and I’m not paid by any medicine company.
I’ve always said that healthy real food, vitamins, and minerals are good for you. However, all the research says that you should get them from… surprise… real food! Go to your grocery store’s produce isle and stock up. If you find a powdered Tangy Tangerine tree growing somewhere, then get it registered with some botanical society. There’s no such thing.
Me too!!! Since finding Youngevity, I have not got sick even ONCE since 2013. I have refused to comply to anti-science mask mandates and experimental shots, and haven’t got COVID. I meet lots of people every week in my business. I shake all their hands and lived life the way humans lived for the last 6,000 years.
I never expected it to cure my sinus problems. It never even crossed my mind. I was shocked when I noticed that the sinus problems that dogged me all life long disappeared in 2013, never to come back.
Lazyman can poo-poo Youngevity all he wants, but Dr. Wallach DID figure out what the body needs to be healthy.
Once again, some anonymous person gives their personal account of an extraordinary medical claim that has never been documented in the history world and we are supposed to believe it. It’s strange that this only happens when the product is MLM and the person making the claim can profit from it. It’s happened dozens, maybe hundreds, of times with MLM. It never happens with any product sold on a store shelf.
Lazy man makes the same false comments over and over again these past few years. Not once has he proven someone who likes the product and supports it for personal reasons has an agenda to do with $$ and profit. I think Lazy man does have an agenda and profits in some way from drug companies for being an internet troll and spreading lies about vitamins and minerals being bad whole he supports 100% any medical procedure or drugs that profits doctors and drug companies. Lazy man is just a low paid drug pusher.
Just to be clear, I never said that the people here do buy it. I simply said that these claims almost exclusively come for MLM products where individuals can profit from their testimonials.
I’ve already disclosed that I don’t profit from pharmaceutical companies. I also never say that vitamins and minerals are bad. In fact, I’ve said the opposite and repeated it recently. I also don’t recall saying anything promoting all medical procedures. Everyone here can read that you are making up false arguments. I doubt that it’s the Tangy Tangerine causing your logic problems, but there seems to be a correlation if not causation.
Sorry, I neither sell it, nor profit from people buying it. I am an engineer as well as a small business owner (I do both full time) and have no time to try to make pennies on my dollars in MLM schemes. I discovered a product that performs way beyond what it even claims, and YES, that makes me a hard core believer. If you experienced anything like this you would be, too.
How is this any less scientific than what YOU do? You take the “word” of organizations and corporations that have proven to be willing to be puppeteered by political interests. The CDC has shown that they dance to the tune of politics over science. And we already know where big pharma stands.
Are you performing scientific experiments, and employing the scientific method?
Any engineer would be able to logically look at the label and say that it represents what’s in the product – same as a vitamin and mineral. It would be like someone telling you that a distance measured in inches somehow changes when it is measured in centimeters.
If I experienced anything like that, I would scientifically deduce it was the placebo effect. The placebo effect has been proven for hundreds of years.
The scientific method has stood the test of time. It’s brought us so many tremendous treatments that people are living a lot longer than they have before, despite the fact that they generally eat worse because of fast food and and processed foods that aren’t as healthy as what we’d get if we just bought from the produce aisle. I guess next people will be against fruits and vegetables and saying that I’m sponsored by Big “Farma.”
Why hasn’t Youngevity done any large-scale scientific experiments to show that Youngevity does anything? What scientific journal would they have been published in? Have they been peer-reviewed? Which organizations have independently duplicated the results to make sure they can be replicated? I wrote this article nearly 10 years ago and what progress have they made? What progress has any of all the MLMs made with any scientific testing? It seems the entire “industry” can’t do anything when it comes to science.
So you know the scientific method so well then you should understand that it can’t be applied to natural medicine for a variety of reasons. Clinically verified medical trials are just as valid as evidence based clinical trials. The billions in profits made off clinically tried and approved therapeutics, and the lawsuit settlements in billions paid out for damages from these same drugs that were formally approved should alarm you. The “scientific method” you speak of so fondly, clinical trials passed, fail, and people die. Why Lazy Man? Switching lanes here, the current jab program is a perfect example of ignoring and breaking the gold standard of the scientific method and clinical trials.
You can apply the scientific method to natural medicine. The scientific method doesn’t care if aspirin came from willow bark or a lab. It’s simply getting people to test whether it works vs. a placebo (an inert pill) and seeing if it is more effective. It might be hard to compare an apple because it doesn’t look or seem like a pill. However, you could compare two powders, because we can easily imagine something like Kool-Aid or another powdered beverage that we know doesn’t bestow any health benefits.
I’m not alarmed by profits of approved therapeutics like say Viagra for example. We’re at almost 25 years of it, and no intelligent person thinks it is some scam that doesn’t work. If it didn’t work, people wouldn’t be buying it, right? We can look at the clinical trials vs. a placebo and they show it works too.
I’m never surprised or alarmed by lawyers suing for billions. There are tons of car lawsuits and huge air bag recalls. I can still take my car to work and back. I can still take my car to the grocery store.
People die because that’s what we do. I haven’t met anyone who immortal yet, have you?
Actually, the vaccines went through the scientific method. The vaccines use mRNA that was developed in the 1960 (source: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines). There were many vaccines tested that didn’t work out in clinical trials. The ones we have today did. The only difference is that we had a whole world, dozens and dozens of developed countries (not just the United States’ FDA), focused on this one thing because it was necessary for the survival of so many people. They condensed the usual schedule of trials because it was a global pandemic. It’s not that they were tested less, but that they were tested by many people in many groups at the same time, which usually isn’t possible when a company has to fund it by itself without the aid of dozens of governments.
[Editor’s Note: Melanie posted 698 words of anti-vaccination content. That’s longer than many of my articles on Lazy Man and Money and a very, very inappropriate length for the comment section on a website. Outside of that, not one word of it addressed the topic of Youngevity, the central point of the article. This isn’t a vaccination discussion – Youngevity does not make a vaccine. Take any anti-vaccination elsewhere. This isn’t censorship, you are free to speak you mind anywhere you want. However, this website is my (digital) home and you are not free to come into my home and try to derail the conversation on something unrelated to the topic.]
I invite Melanie to resubmit her comment in a terse way that is relevant to the discussion of Youngevity. Keep in mind that any discussion of “[X] medicine is bad”, DOES NOT, in any way, shape, or form have anything to do whether Youngevity, toast, or balancing on one foot will cure your medical condition.
Lazy Man you are the one who posted the link to mRNA vaccines as an example of the scientific method. The Canadian Covid Care Alliance published level 1 evidence from Pfizer’s own trials of harm from the current jab and explains in detail how they abandoned the scientific method. You are incorrect that natural medicine can withstand the scientific method. It would be unethical to withhold vital nutrients and minerals from a control group in order to study efficacy. Isolating variables is also problematic since vitamins and minerals have synergistic co-factors. Youngevity products are backed by clinically verified scientific methods. The years of comments on your blog is a type of observational study in itself. Thanks for the opportunity to repost. I agree with you -sorry, the length of my last 2 comments were def to long and off topic.
Yes, I posted the John Hopkins University authoritative resource about mRNA vaccines. That was in response to your “switching lanes” point about the vaccine not following the scientific method. You can disagree on the details (as you have) and that’s a good discussion for a conspiracy/PizzaGate/Qanon website. The bottom line is that they do follow the scientific method. They don’t suggest injecting bleach. They don’t suggest injecting toast. They don’t suggest injecting banana juice.
They suggest injecting a vaccine and it is safe and effective. It is preventing thousands and thousands of deaths by any measure – not just the United States ones, but also internationally. Globally people have literally taken ***10 BILLION*** doses of COVID vaccine and it has saved millions of lives. The “Canadian Covid Care Alliance” seems to like my dog’s dewormer as a better medicine without any significant clinical or testing. At best, it would be advocating one completely untested animal big pharma un-COVID-related-thing solution against another option that billions of safety and effectiveness behind it specifically for COVID. They may sound important with the name of “Canadian Covid Care Alliance”, but I could form an equivalent American Covid Care Alliance with any of my blogging friends.
Getting back to the topic, it isn’t unethical to “withhold” supplements. No one would withhold supplements. We need to separate supplements that are in this discussion such as Youngevity’s multivitamins and other companies’ multivitamins. Many people don’t take supplements. It would be very easy to do that comparison.
However, you bring up a great point. Why not compare Youngevity’s multivitamin solution with a generic molecular equivalent? It might cost Youngevity a bit to make that happen, so I’ll be generous and give them a pass. Why doesn’t Youngevity just do the comparison of their product against a competitor? It would be easy.
Scientists have conclusively proven that vitamins and minerals are a waste of money if you eat well – or have a natural diet. I’ve shared the link before, but I’m not going to waste my time again. It’s likely to be in the main article. There have been no “synergistic co-factors” associated with multivitamins and minerals… if so please show the specific scientific data analyzing Youngevity’s Tangy Tangerine (or another Youngevity product of your choice).
You made a statement of “Youngevity products are backed by clinically verified scientific methods.” What clinical trials has Youngevity’s products been a part of? What verification are we talking about. I need to know more about this verification claim.
You are incorrect about being able to study a vitamin or mineral in singularity and you are incorrect about the vaccines being safe and effective. I challenge you to post the VAERS data from the reliable source of the CDC themselves which is irrefutable proof that they are not safe.
[Editor’s Note: The CDC clearly says that vaccines are safe: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html#:~:text=Yes.%20All%20currently%20authorized,as%20soon%20as%20possible. HHS gives information about the VAERS reporting system. With 10 billion vaccines worldwide, it is clearly safe.]
The fact that people with 4 shots are still getting Covid is irrefutable proof that they are not effective.
[Editor’s Note: You don’t understand COVID vaccines then. Delta was about 50x more contagious than the original (alpha) COVID. Omicron is probably 50x more contagious than that. Vaccines with Omicron is about preventing hospitalizations and death. You can look up how effective they are at preventing them.]
Anyone who knows Lazy Man also knows he won’t post the data.
[Editor’s Note: I don’t need to post data because the CDC has done it. Best to check with them.]
It is unethical and impossible to study and anyone with a brain understands this. Let’s take magnesium for example. Each child/person must have magnesium in their body and each of has different levels. A simple serum level test will prove such. When a person does not have enough magnesium in their heart muscle, they have cardiac arrest.
[Editor’s Note: Very few people get heart attacks from a lack of magnesium. I don’t know if anyone has. If so, magnesium supplements are extraordinary cheap.]
Calcium and magnesium are cofactors in the muscle, calcium makes the muscle contract, magnesium makes it relax. Doctors give shots of magnesium straight to the heart during an emergency cardiac event. So Lazy Man, you claim that it would be ethical to have a control group where we purposefully lower/remove/withhold magnesium from someone’s body?
[Editor’s Note: Please keep in mind that most people, perhaps 90% do not take supplemental magnesium. It’s not purposely lowering/removing/withhold magnesium, but just letting the control group do what it is already doing.]
The Canadian Covid Care Alliance consists of over 500 doctors and anyone who cares can look them up and see the truth, and see Lazy Man is so Lazy he did not do his homework again and chose to compare them to bloggers, which is typical.
[Editor’s Note: Canada biggest research journalists did all the work for us: Revealed: How a web of Canadian doctors are undermining the fight against COVID-19. Please keep in mind that the journalists are about truth. As one part of the points out, “Many are being investigated or have had their medical licences suspended… At first glance, it seems that these doctors are acting independently…. But Global News can reveal that many are connected.”
So yes it is good to look up the truth. Did you? It took me about 20 seconds of a Google search this morning.]
You are a part of the clinically verified study Lazy Man, so thank you. In reading the responses to your article, you have years of clinical evidence from patients who use their products and have found success.
[Editor’s Note: I also have years of evidence of people who claim that MonaVie juice cures autism and many other things. It’s not a clinical study. There is no clinic. I don’t know anyone here who is a “patient.” We don’t know who any of these people are there are no medical professionals or any one at all verifying these people. So it is not clinical, verified, or a study and the “evidence” can’t be trusted. It’s hard to be more wrong.]
How many claim no success? Have you counted? Your claims that we are all making money from it is laughable.
[Editor’s Note: I didn’t claim that you are all making money. I didn’t even claim that anyone is making money. I simply pointed out that this pattern happens with a hundred MLM products where people DO make money from promotion and close to zero people make claims from anything on a store shelf. Why is it that almost any supplement sold by MLM becomes a cure for medical condition? You keep on ignoring this.]
I am a high school math teacher and have no financial interest or gain from the Youngevity company but I am here to say after all these years, that it is a good product. It is expensive, but in the long run, much cheaper than dealing with a serious chronic disease. Reversing chronic conditions is difficult, yet the products from Youngevity can help and do make it possible.
[Editor’s Note: Youngevity itself would probably say that it doesn’t deal with a chronic disease. Again eating toast doesn’t deal with serious conditions either.]
I do agree with Lazy Man that whole foods are the best way to get nutrition however many Americans for whatever reason eat very few whole foods and are eating mainly a highly processed/GMO/hormone laden diet. These people can benefit the most from products like Youngevity.
[Editor’s Note: Or… and this may be crazy… why suggest a highly processed “food” (Tangy Tangerine) when you acknowledge that they are bad. Why not just focus on the nutrition of eating whole foods. It’s not controversial, we agree on it and can move on. Again this would be better that trying to pretend that Youngevity is a vaccine or can do medical stuff that even Youngevity doesn’t agree with.]
I just enjoyed catching up on some of the comments to this article and it reminded me of how much I love “Dead Doctors don’t Ie”. It is a catchy title Lazy Man, you are correct.
[Editor’s Response: I guess Wallach isn’t dead then. I hope the links near the end of my article are still up because they are fascinating.]
But the best comes when you watch it. His presentation went right to my soul and it was as if my grandparents, the last of the farmers in my family were speaking, and I love love love this video. I do not repeat watch videos/movies usually but occasionally, I will watch “Dead doctors don’t lie” for inspiration to continue a healthy lifestyle.
[Editor’s Response: Seems like he missed his calling an should have been a filmmaker? Well, it sounds like that’s his main contribution to the world anyway. I’m not throwing stones as I live in a glass house with this blog. Just pointing out the similarities – except that I argue on the side ofscience.]
It is much easier and more fun to choose bad food and make poor choices. But I do have a question. What happened to your buddy Vogul? He was so vicious in his comments and attacks on the people commenting here. I asked him to be part of the experiment and try the product for several months to see if there was an improvement in his mental health, do you know if he did?
[Editor’s Response: Vogel responded to a comment in a different thread a couple of weeks ago. I’m not doing as much MLM stuff any more as it’s become hard to herd the cats. I’d rather do stuff in my local community if I’m not getting paid and getting fake defamation lawsuits for millions (all of which I’ve beaten.)]
Just to be clear about the glass house Lazy Man ljves in, he also did not author a book that is included in the Smithsonian, entitled, Disease of Exotic Animals, Medical and Surgical Management. That would be the good and real doctor, Dr. Wallach. Also to be crystal clear, no one would pay $1500 for a book written by this blogger. But if you want to own Dr. Wallach’s book, go check out Amazon’s prices. Must be some good info if people are willing to pay that much. Also the fact that his transfer of knowledge from the animal kingdom is what made him so spot on for human health. Lastly, equally important to the products he sells, his the FREE education he gives. Dr. Wallach is an asset to the human race whereas Lazy man is exactly what he calls himself. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn wrote, let each of us make a choice: “Whether consciously, to remain a servant of falsehood — of course, it is not out of inclination, but to feed one’s family, that one raises his children in the spirit of lies — or to shrug off the lies and become an honest man worthy of respect … And he who is not sufficiently courageous even to defend his soul — don’t let him be proud of his “progressive” views, don’t let him boast that he is an academician or a people’s artist, a merited figure, or a general — let him say to himself: I am in the herd, and a coward. It’s all the same to me as long as I’m fed and warm.”
I was away from my computer yesterday. It seems that people talk about this book in the Smithsonian, but I see no proof of it. There are a lot of Smithsonians. If he’s an expert on diseases of exotic animals, maybe that’s why he’s a vet that should work with animals. Why go see a vet if you are a person.
There are a lot of rare books (because they aren’t worth a second printing) that are priced high. It’s not like everyone needs a book about diseases of exotic animals. If your rare exotic animal gets a rare disease, I guess maybe it may be worth buying this rare book. My guess is that a lot of the information is available elsewhere. In any case, it has nothing to do with Youngevity.
If an understanding of the animal kingdom applied to humans we’ll be see animal vets. That’s not the case though. They are trained in animals and we have doctors trained for people.
I’m not sure about the FREE education when it comes with Younevity’s prices.
It looks like there Joel and his lawyer had to sign some kind of bad practice thing in 1985 – https://centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/quackwatch/wallach.pdf. I don’t have the time to read the legalese now, but it certainly doesn’t look good. And then there are his problem promoting collodial minerals – https://quackwatch.org/related/dsh/colloidalminerals/. The Orlando Sentinel covered the scammy video back 1998 – https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1998-12-02-9812010719-story.html
Lazy Man, I think you hit the nail on the head recommending that people instead go to animal vets for chronic illnesses. Since after all they’ve cured and prevented chronic illnesses in animals over 60 years ago that still to this day plague humans.
If you think about it, human doctors only use allopathic medicine, which is great for trauma and infectious diseases (aka antibiotics). While veterinarian medicine uses both allopathic and naturopathic medicine on animals.
Example: a horse gets an infection, vet gives antibiotics (allopathic) to cure. Horse get’s Cribbing, vet gives horse mineral/vitamin pellets (naturopathic) to cure.
I didn’t recommend that people go to animal vets. If I did, I may have worded it wrong. Use animal vets for your animals. Use people doctors for people. It’s what they study and what they know.
So you are going to fix human cribbing with some vet medicine. That doesn’t sound like it has been studied well at all. What about cold-blooded animals like lizards – you are going to apply something for them for humans?
If it works for humans, scientists try it and expand the research. It doesn’t matter if it’s calcium for your bones or Viagra for your… well, I’ll let you figure that one out. We know about calcium and bones because we’ve done the research. If Joel wants to push his vitamins, he should:
1. Make sure they are priced compared to other vitamins
2. Show the large scale trials they’ve been in
3. Get rid of a pyramid scheme selling program
4. Address and apologize for all the past quackery.
Lazy Man, yes, they do cure Cribbing in humans with vitamins/minerals. In humans it is called Pica that commonly affects pregnant women when their developing fetus drains mother of vitamins/minerals to prevent birth defects. This is one of the few places that human allopathic doctors use naturopathic medicine like veterinarians use. In animals it’s called a food pellet, for pregnant women it’s called Prenatal Vitamins.
And yes you’d be shocked to know that lizards also require nutrients to live healthy lives.
Just popped in to say hi. I see I didn’t miss much. Melanie is still off her meds, ranting and avoiding saying anything remotely relevant to the topic at hand; Wallace fellatio from the YGYI troll/sock puppet(s); rage posts from the ne’er-do-well bunker-bound Alex Jonestown incel.
On the other hand, I though the details in the links that Lazy Man posted (i.e., actual factual evidence) were quite interesting.
https://centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/quackwatch/wallach.pdf
https://quackwatch.org/related/dsh/colloidalminerals/
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1998-12-02-9812010719-story.html
Anyone surprised by Wallach getting his naturopathic license suspended hasn’t been paying atttention. One has to be a pretty egregious quack to get censured by a Board of Naturopaths. That’s like getting a NAMBLA membership card revoked for deviant behavior.
Anyone who will continue to read this article and cares to read the comments knows the narrative Vogel spews is forever broken. Anyone with a brain can read for themselves about Dr. Joel Wallach, an 81 year old veterinarian who turned to doctor humans.
In short Dr. Wallach, fed up with the lies we are told by those who profit from disease maintenance, made it his life mission to wake people up to this reality since the 80’s. Big pharma have waged a war on Wallach and those like him since he became a naturopathic doctor. Yet, here he is, persisting, thriving, helping people anyway.
Dr. Wallach’s first book is so valuable that you can’t get a copy easily “Diseases of Exotic Animals”, but his “Dead Doctors Dont Lie” book is the best book ever and then you can decide for yourself rather than follow sheep like Vogel who have not even read his books.
Another excellent book is the newest RFK Jr, book, “The Real Anthony Fauci”. It discusses regulatory capture, the ways in which naturopaths and other good doctors, whistleblowers, have been and continue to be persecuted and railroaded by the corrupt figure heads at CDC, NIH, NIAID, and FDA.
As Dr. Wallach and other like minded would say, “Food is thy medicine, medicine is thy food” and from his good friend Dr. Peter Glidden, “Knowledge is power. Lack of knowledge destroys our people.” Be well :)
You can’t get a copy of Diseases of Exotic Animals because it (almost assuredly) had a low print run. There are about 126,138 (according to Google search) veterinarians in the US and 99% of those likely deal with typical pets. So the addressable audience is about 1200 people in the United States. It’s very irrelevant book and certainly the furthest possible thing applicable to humans and supplements.
RFK Jr. is a quack anti-vaxxer. Why would anyone read his book that has no basis in science?
No one has been arguing against good food. To use Dr. Wallach’s quote, eating quality food eliminates the needs for Youngevity products – even though they are not medicine as no supplements have been shown to be medicine except for some very well-known vitamin deficiency diseases like scurvy.
You can buy a copy for $1500 through Amazon. That book is the basis of all of Dr. Wallach’s findings and the reason behind all of his other books. Your readers can discover the truth easily enough.
The RFK Jr. book, full title, “The Real Anthony Fauci, Bill Gates, Big Pharma, and the Global War on Democracy and Public Health” explains quite well why you parrot naturopathic medical treatment as “quackery” and those who stand for truth and transparency “anti-vaxers”.
All these advertisements and the money $$ you make off your blog page would disappear quickly if you dared to promote natural cures and remedies. For anyone who still reads this article, I will add that although expensive, Youngevity products work well. You can also use real organic food and the principles Dr. Wallach teaches for free in his videos and books with never ever buying a single Youngevity product if you wish. Either way, you will get better results than just turning to prescription drugs for a chronic condition.
Melanie Banks said: “Either way, you will get better results than just turning to prescription drugs for a chronic condition.”
You’re still trying to kill people on YGYIs behalf by illegally marketing their products as a substitute for approved/clinically validated disease treatments. It would be irresponsible to not report you to the FDA and FTC.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/reportaproblem/ucm059315.htm?https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/identity-theft-and-data-security/filing-complaint
Melanie Banks said: “Anyone who will continue to read this article and cares to read the comments knows the narrative Vogel spews is forever broken. “
What exactly did you mean with that trail of word vomit? It’s a safe assumption that any rational reader would recognize me as a voice of truth and reason and you as a vapid self-interested raving crackpot.
Melanie Banks said: “Anyone with a brain can read for themselves about Dr. Joel Wallach, an 81 year old veterinarian who turned to doctor humans.”
You say that like it’s a good thing! Again, to sane people, that sounds pretty damn scary. Not like he doing any real “doctoring” though, unless you consider an unlicensed geriatric quack selling overpriced buckets of vitamin sludge through a pyramid scheme to dolts and suckers to be “doctoring”.
Melanie Banks said: “Big pharma have waged a war on Wallach and those like him since he became a naturopathic doctor.”
ROFL! “Big pharma” has no reason to go to war with an insignificant carnival barker like Wallach, but rest assured that if they ever did, there’d be nothing left of him but a stain on the pavement.
Melanie Banks said: “Dr. Wallach’s first book is so valuable that you can’t get a copy easily”
That’s the opposite of valuable. It’s a relic, long out of print because there is zero demand/interest.
Melanie Banks said: “Another excellent book is the newest RFK Jr, book, “The Real Anthony Fauci”.
I see you still have an uncanny inability to stay on topic. That and an insatiable appetite for (figuratively) fellating Joel Wallach are the only 2 arrows in your quiver.
Melanie Banks said: “…his good friend Dr. Peter Glidden“
Wow you’re still mentioning that creepy snake-oily Severus Snape wannabe? I’m surprised; you must totally lack the gene for embarrassment.
As I will continue to say, readers will decide for themselves. Censorship is real, and Vogels anger and hatred for the truth and debate has not changed because of the financial relationship you can read at the bottom of this page.
All of my statements here are opinions and i have not given any medical advice so apply the law you quote correctly. Your scare tactics and less than factual comments are old and as I said, the narrative is broken. The book is $1,500 on Amazon. Dr. Wallach did not lose his license as you tried to parrot. Get your facts right.
Melanie Banks said: “Vogels anger and hatred for the truth and debate has not changed because of the financial relationship you can read at the bottom of this page.”
It’s sad and bewildering that someone has to take the time to explain to Melanie that the financial disclosure at the bottom of the webpage applies to the blog host, not other users who post here. Its hard to believe that anyone could be dumb enough to make that mistake by accident so I’d have to attribute it to purposeful deception. Not cool, but par for the course with YGYI shills.
?Melanie Banks said: “All of my statements here are opinions and i have not given any medical advice so apply the law you quote correctly. “
Seems you don’t understand the law at all. You can’t escape responsibility for your false claims alleging that YGYI products cure diseases and are superior to approved medicine by couching them as your opinion. I wonder if the Superintendent of Ulster County Schools knows that you spend so much time flogging snake oil and being a lying sociopathic a-hole on blog sites.
Sadly, these types of false/illegal/idiotic miracle cure/snake oil claims are the bread and butter of the YGYI organization.
https://truthinadvertising.org/evidence/youngevity-health-claims-database/
Melanie Banks said: “The book is $1,500 on Amazon.
It’s a 40-year-old book that was never reprinted, presumably because it was unpopular (ie, popular books get reprinted). It figures that you would try to misrepresent a third-party drop-shipping scam as evidence of the book’s true value…
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/15/technology/amazon-used-paperback-book-pricing.html
https://justpublishingadvice.com/why-are-they-selling-used-books-on-amazon-at-crazy-prices/
https://dfarq.homeip.net/why-are-some-books-so-expensive-on-amazon/
…which is zero judging by the presence of a mere 3 (hysterically banal) reviews on Amazon over a 12-year span (clearly none from actual veterinary pathologists, but rather simpleton YGYI shills who can barely write complete sentences).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0721691056#customerReviews
Melanie Banks said: “Dr. Wallach did not lose his license as you tried to parrot. Get your facts right.”
By “tried to parrot”, what you really mean is that I simply reposted a link to substantiating evidence that his naturopath license was suspended for malpractice.
https://centerforinquiry.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/33/quackwatch/wallach.pdf
As usual, you say things that fly in the face of facts and common sense. I have a hard time believing that anyone could be that dumb by accident, so it’s safe to assume that you know better and are merely lying for fun and (meager) profit.
I’ll follow up Vogel’s comment with another note. The financial relationship at the bottom of the page that you are referring to is a legal disclosure required by the FTC and it appears at the bottom of every page whether it is applicable to the page or not.
I find it strange that you think I’d have a relationship with Youngevity. I do not have a financial relationship with Youngevity. I thought that was very clear.
The truth is in the links you shared, so thank you! Your threats, anger, name calling, and false statements are broken and old. Keep trying to convince people that Youngevity and Dr. Wallach are bad while the FDA and CDC are the good guys. Your efforts are really paying off, what amazing people you are, so kind and generous.
For anyone who still reads this, they know by the previous comments that Vogel is Lazyman’s henchmen and is compensated in some way (even if it is only bromance). The statement at the bottom ofLazyman’s page stands for itself, no explanation needed.
Melanie, thanks for agreeing that the statement at the bottom of all the pages of Lazy Man and Money aren’t relevant to this discussion. Not sure why you called it out originally.
I guess you can keep on claiming that Youngevity and Wallach can cure all the medical conditions – except that it is illegal and inaccurate. Also, clearly, it’s been a decade or so and they haven’t put together any testing, even in other countries where the FDA and CDC don’t exist, to prove that the products help with anything.
Melanie Banks said: “Keep trying to convince people that Youngevity and Dr. Wallach are bad…”
Bad??? Wallach is so much worse than merely “bad”; he’s a predatory sociopathic MONSTER! And if there’s anyone left in the world who doesn’t already know it, I’ll be happy to provide still more evidence of his depravity from this Dead Doctors Dont Lie program (from June 21, 2021) that I came across yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9I31eDwKsA
I will focus on the most egregious parts and gloss over the conventionally stupid/deceptive statements such as: pretending (0:47) that he’s a “physician”(he’s not); claiming (1:44) that he already had a college education by the time he finished high school because he had earned 32 merit badges as a Boy Scout; and demonstrating that he doesn’t understand the word “fungal” (39:08 – 39:42).
I had though that, by now, there was nothing that the morally bankrupt goobers at YGYI could say that would shock me, but I was proven wrong when I got to the part of this call where Wallach implores YGYI distributors to start grooming children as young as 7-years-old to become sales shills for YGYI products. Listening to Wallach preying on little kids was so vile it was all I could do to not throw up in disgust:
2:19 – [Wallach] “What I wanted to preach to you today is I want you to consider inviting kids who are Brownies, Daisies, Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts…it’ll be good for them and certainly it’ll be good for everybody else too…[3:43] They like to talk talk to people. They have to get their merit badges and they have to get their (service) pins OK…So I just urge you to engage them and try to explain to them what we are, what we do, and how they can help so many people with their health and longevity…[5:05] And these kids are, what should I say, they’re not shy. They are out there able to talk to people because of all their studies and so forth. And so see if you can’t get this going so we can be paying for their college and paying for their cars; I just love that possibility.”
I had a similar visceral reaction when I got to the part where he dangerously/illegally plugged YGYI products for newborns and nursing mothers:
4:12 – “Every kid should be taking these things OK. And you know they can start takin’ ‘em when they are born…if they are being breast fed, the mother needs to be taking her Healthy Brain & Heart Pack so that she’s not only consuming these nutrients for herself but also for the nursing baby OK?”
Another part that was hard to ignore is where Wallach explains how he was almost institutionalized as a child for chronic uncontrollable violent behavior:
6:36 – “I had very violent behavior. ..when I was 4 years old. By the time I was 9 they were going to institutionalize me…why is it that I have a problem; my folks eat the same food, they dont have a problem; the animals in our backyard eat the same food from the garden – oh no, they get vitamins and minerals. I started taking more vitamins and minerals and cured myself in 3 days, what 20 doctors couldn’t figure out [This is all so painfully stupid and bereft of logic it beggars the imagination].
The rest of the program features Wallach illegally “prescribing” various worthless YGYI products to cure a myriad of medical conditions. For example:
5:36 – “If they have issues, of course, we have secret sauces for over 600 different diseases”
Wallach goes on to advise all of the callers to take 3-4 or even more of YGYIs worthless products daily, which would make it far more expensive than prescription medication for most people, who have either health insurance with low copays or access to payment assistance programs (aside from the fact that unlike prescription products, YGYIs products have no medical value whatsoever).
Melanie Banks said: “For anyone who still reads this, they know by the previous comments that Vogel is Lazyman’s henchmen and is compensated in some way (even if it is only bromance).”
What we know for certain is that you prostitute yourself for a vile loathsome quack snakeoil peddler and try to deflect your depravity onto those who criticize YGYI. In other words, I’m not a “henchmen” (sic), not compensated in any way (but happy to accept if offered to keep doing what I gladly do for free as a public service), and there’s no bromance (although I do think the world of Lazy Man and his mission to educate about consumer finance and scams like YGYI).
You take desperate potshots like these while ignoring the fact that last year Joel Wallach”s mutant progeny took home more than $5 million combined, profiting from their evil asshole of a father”s profligate scamming.
Stephan Wallach (CEO) – $2,765,900
Michelle Wallach (COO) – $2,613,560
https://last10k.com/sec-filings/ygyi#part3
In other words Mel, you’re exactly the kind of whinging hypocrite that the Bible laments in Matthew 7:3 (“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?)
So to summarize, Wallach isn’t merely “bad”; he’s a deviant predatory criminal, child abuser, monster; and YGYI is a sordid shit show of epic proportions.
Facts are facts, LazyMan. You are the one making false claims and a big deal about people’s opinions and trying to scare them. Shame on you and Vogel.
The history of long comments and attacks by both of you by anyone who has an alternate opinion is plain to read. It is not illegal for me to say that I love his teachings, his products,his books. I can also and will sing the truth that they helped me personally and I think they would help anyone. Any other claims of miracles parroted by Lazyman from the written narrative are his own, sort of, straight from Big pharma $$ trickled on down.
What false claims am I making? Anyone can look up laws about pushing supplements for medical conditions. I don’t think there is any debate on it.
Someone can have the opinion that apes can fly, but that doesn’t make it accurate. It’s fine to have that as an alternative opinion, but you have to show that it is opinion based on fact, not opinion of “I love apes so I think they can fly.”
There’s no room for the discussion of what people love. You can love the tasty of Tangy Tangerine – no one cares.
In the history of the universe no one has shown Youngevity has ever helped a single person with any medical condition. Even more telling Youngevity hasn’t applied to run any tests to show that it could help anyone. That tells you all you need to know – they don’t even believe their product can do it.
Vogel’s response is so out there, I can only laugh and tell your readers to listen to “The Dead Doctors Dont Lie” audio for yourself and judge for yourself. I do not need to resort to trying to find about Vogel personally and attack him or his family like he does to the people who comment here (read his past posts). Because his Big Pharma narrative is broken even if the $$ hasn’t dried up yet. Keep trying to convince people and their babies, that minerals and vitamins are bad for them and the people who say they are good are “Monsters”. Good luck with that.
Remember, Dead Doctor’s Don’t Lie was debunked nearly 25 years ago – https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-1998-12-02-9812010719-story.html.
Debunked? by ? Your readers are hopefully smarter than you seem to think they are. They can “debunk” it themselves surely (or not). I enjoyed “Dead Doctors Don’t Lie” thoroughly, every minute & I found it informative and entertaining. I am forever grateful to Dr. Wallach for the great awakening, it made a lasting and real difference. My allopathic doctors know very little about nutrition and health, I had to teach them about using RBC blood tests for mineral deficiencies. Thanks to Dr. Wallach, I know the difference between serum level and RBC.
I surely know prescription drugs aren’t the answer for me and I absolutely love Youngevity products and other natural health remedies. I can proudly sing out loud that I am prescription free at 52 years old. I teach mathematics and how to prove theorems for the past 26 years, & I understand the difference between fact and opinion. My opinions are my own and are based on my experiences. Vogel may rip me apart, call me names, insult my profession, (Lazyman too) but remember readers, you can make your own mind up – you do not need anyone to claim to tell you the truth – when it comes to your health and your body, take a look for yourself & decide. Take care of yourself, be well :)
Melanie Banks said: “remember readers, you can make your own mind up – you do not need anyone to claim to tell you the truth – when it comes to your health and your body, take a look for yourself & decide.”
Yes readers, listen to Dr. Joel Wallach the monster admonishing YGYI distributors to prey on 7-year-olds, while he pretends to be a doctor and hawks fake medicine for profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9I31eDwKsA
For anyone with moral clarity, it’s obvious that he should be reported to the FTC/FDA and put out of business.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/reportaproblem/ucm059315.htm?https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/identity-theft-and-data-security/filing-complaint
Readers should also note how Melanie Banks not only turns a blind eye but figuratively fellates Wallach daily (and ponder whether she should be trusted near anyones children).
Typical Vogel response = lots of insults and anger, very little substance. You would of been great on the “disinformation board”, too bad they abandoned the idea, wonder why? Your desire to shut up/cancel dissenting opinions, fueled by my simple comments that state how much I love Youngevity products, amuses me very much Vogel. Let’s count the number of people who thank & love Dr. Wallach in these comments over the past few years and compare it to the number of people who support your claims of fraud. Facts don’t lie gentlemen :) I use the term gentlemen facetiously :)
Melanie Banks said: “Typical Vogel response = lots of insults and anger, very little substance. “
Listening to someone like Wallach describe a plan to prey on children (ie, the “substance” part that you ignored) does tend to sour my mood. But you seem to be down with it, and you couldn’t possibly stick your nose any further up Wallach”s backside. Shame on you! Running interference for a child predator/snakeoil charlatan/doctor impersonator.
Melanie Banks said: “You would of (sic ) been great on the “disinformation board”, too bad they abandoned the idea, wonder why? “
Oh boo-f-ing-hoo, isn’t it just so unfair and disinformationy that you keep getting throttled with DIRECT QUOTES from Wallach attesting to the company’s malfeasance.
Melanie Banks said: “Your desire to shut up/cancel dissenting opinions, fueled by my simple comments that state how much I love Youngevity products, amuses me very much Vogel. “
My desire is that Joel Wallach stops preying on 7-year-olds and trying to suck them into his dystopian version of Oliver Twist, hawking fraudulent vitaminy snakeoil, which was the master plan that the evil monster himself outlined in his atrocious Dead Doctors Dont Lie radio show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9I31eDwKsA
And You haven’t been simply commenting that you love the products. You’ve been here for something like 5 years and commented dozens upon dozens of times. That would be pointless if all you had to say is that you love the products. Rather what you have been doing is trying to change the subject, lamely trying to deflect criticism, and playing the sycophant to Wallach.
And if you’re repeating over and over again that you love the products, one can’t help but think that you love them so much that you’d have no qualms about blindly following Wallach”s instructions for child exploitation.
Melanie Banks said: “Let’s count the number of people who thank & love Dr. Wallach in these comments over the past few years and compare it to the number of people who support your claims of fraud. “
Or we could just skip that pointless suggestion altogether and go straight to reporting Wallach and other YGYI offenders to the FDA/FTC, and you to the Catskill Central School District board.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/reportaproblem/ucm059315.htm?https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/identity-theft-and-data-security/filing-complaint
https://catskillcsd.org/catskill-high-school/staff-directory/
No substance and you don’t scare me Vogel. You parrot the same garbage for 5 years and are are a hypocrite for not confessing to your own posting. Your proof that he is somehow hurting children are opinions, not direct quotes, your intelligence to tell the difference is your problem. You also are hypocritical for quoting scripture when you are no Christian. Communism is what you preach and your comments over the past 5 years is enough to make any Christian see you for the wolf you are. Why don’t you report me to he CCP as well :) Good luck, have fun with that.
Readers, read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page. It bees s no explanation except who is paying the bills :)
Melanie Banks said: “You parrot the same garbage for 5 years and are are a hypocrite for not confessing to your own posting.”
That’s one of the dumbest things you’ve said in quite some time (ie, since yesterday). I’ve been postIng in-depth fact laden analysis on Lazy Man’s site for a lot longer than 5 years. Nothing to confess and no hypocrisy as this was never a secret.
The point I was making is that you have been here posting for 5 years and have yet to make a single remotely valid point. If what you really wanted to do was simply express your love for the products, as stupid as that may be, you could have done it in a couple of posts and then disappeared. What you’re doing instead is trolling.
Melanie Banks said: “Your proof that he is somehow hurting children are opinions, not direct quotes”
You know full well that what I posted was a direct quote from Wallach the monster. Apparently it needs to be posted daily so that everyone knows to protect their kids from YGYIs child groomers and predators:
2:19 – [Wallach] “What I wanted to preach to you today is I want you to consider inviting kids who are Brownies, Daisies, Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts…it’ll be good for them and certainly it’ll be good for everybody else too…[3:43] They like to talk talk to people. They have to get their merit badges and they have to get their (service) pins OK…So I just urge you to engage them and try to explain to them what we are, what we do, and how they can help so many people with their health and longevity…[5:05] And these kids are, what should I say, they’re not shy. They are out there able to talk to people because of all their studies and so forth. And so see if you can’t get this going so we can be paying for their college and paying for their cars; I just love that possibility.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9I31eDwKsA
It’s also important to note that Wallach is a self-described violent sociopath who tried to cure himself before he was due to be sent to an institution for life.
6:36 – “I had very violent behavior…when I was 4 years old. By the time I was 9 they were going to institutionalize me…they’re gonna put (me) in a hospital…maybe for the rest of (my) life…I started taking more vitamins and minerals and cured myself in 3 days, what 20 doctors couldn’t figure out”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9I31eDwKsA
Aside from having a history as a violent sociopath, and extolling the virtues of child abuse, Wallach had his naturopath license revoked for malpractice (which is doubly entertaining since it’s about as valuable as the plastic toy prize in a cereal box).
https://www.oregon.gov/obnm/Documents/Discipline/N170734ConsentWallach.pdf
And then there’s that sordid matter of the FTC recently citing YGYI for illegally marketing their snakeoil BS as a COVID remedy.
https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/warning-letters/covid-19-letter_to_youngevity.pdf
https://timesofsandiego.com/business/2020/06/05/ftc-warns-chula-vista-health-seller-to-quit-claiming-covid-prevention/
Speaking of NDs, it’s worth pointing out that YGYI spokes-idiot Peter Glidden also seems to be a violent sociopath, especially when confronted with the reality that he is a shameless pyramid schemer:
Glidden: “If somebody tells you what you’re up to is a scam or a pyramid scheme, take a picture of them…go home print it up, put they’re picture on a dartboard right next to the pictures of everybody else who told you that what you’re up to is ridiculous and everyday when you get up to start your Youngevity business, you throw darts at those pictures while saying out loud ‘I’m so glad you’re not a member of my team, you stupid idiot’.”?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykDINtBaB2k&list=PLCEETMbHNKr5d18LyWVHTgul529wRdFsr&index=5
Doesn’t he seem nice? Just look at the dead eyes and haircut on this Severus Snape impersonating charlatan and you know he’s a sociopath.
https://youngdistributor.com/testimonial/peter-glidden-n-d/
Melanie Banks said: “You also are hypocritical for quoting scripture when you are no Christian.”
That’s rich. How would you know? I bet your eyes would burn if you ever looked at a bible.
Melanie Banks said: “Communism is what you preach.”
Actually, I’m pretty OK with free market capitalism, which is the antithesis of YGYIs closed loop pyramid scheme business model, which resembles both a cult and communism.
[NB: I routinely make backup copies of all the audio and video that I cite since these MLM criminals have a tendency to make such incriminating files suddenly disappear]
Is Youngevity’s Peter Glidden a Tax Cheat?
Melanie Banks said: “Communism is what you preach.”
ROFL! You mean the part where I stood on my pulpit and said that the proletariat should control the means of production and distribution and that all industry should be nationalized? Oh but wait, obviously neither I nor anyone else said anything close to that. Problem seems to be that you just don’t know what the term “Communism” means (we can add that to the voluminous list of things you don’t understand) and, like a (particularly slow-witted) child, you simply equate it with “some thing I don’t like”.
You probably also equate it with anything that resembles a “handout” from government, in which case your red-baiting witch-hunt need look no further than your favorite
Slytherin fanboy/doctor impersonator/Youngevity shill Peter Glidden suckling on the government’s teet to the tune of more than $65,000 in COVID payroll protection program (PPP) loans ($33,640 on 5/14/2020 and a second loan of $31,250 on 3/6/2021), at least half of which he didn’t have to pay back.?https://www.federalpay.org/paycheck-protection-program/2nd-opinion-health-solutions-inc-naperville-il?https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/2nd-opinion-health-solutions-inc-7430488508 ?
The PPP loans were taken out under the name of his shell company 2nd Opinion Health Solutions, Inc (formerly LLC), of which he is sole shareholder, to cover payroll for 2 “employees”: presumably some combination of Glidden, his wife (and fellow Youngevity distributor) Brenda Gousset, and/or Brenda”s brother (former Mr Transmission owner and current Youngevity distributor) Bob Gousset.
https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_mn/4ec602b6-2fe7-e611-8169-00155d01d700
https://www.eiffelhealth.com/ygy-membership-info-page https://www.linkedin.com/in/bob-gousset-14671615
His “company” was listed as inactive up until he reactivated it in May 2021, apparently so he could milk a couple of PPP loans from Uncle Sam.
https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_mn/4ec602b6-2fe7-e611-8169-00155d01d700
This sure looks like fraud, since 2nd Opinion Health Solutions doesn’t actually seem to do anything that would justify a government payroll bailout. The industry category listed for the loan is “Internet Publishing and Broadcasting and Web Search Portals”…
https://www.federalpay.org/paycheck-protection-program/2nd-opinion-health-solutions-inc-naperville-il
…which presumably refers to these 2 crazy conspiracy websites run by 2nd Opinion Solutions:
https://nmipublicforum.com/corona-sales-info
https://riseupintohealth.com
At the very least it looks like a maddening waste of government/taxpayer money feeding a snakeoil pyramid scheme hustler. Unfortunately that’s what happens with government largesse — buckets gonna leak and scammers gonna scam.
This undeserving recipient of government largesse is the same hypocrite who was whinging about Pharma’s “money grab” during COVID, while he was running his own little PPP cash-n-grab on the taxpayers dime.
https://americasvoice.news/dr-peter-glidden-on-big-pharma-getting-rich-from-covid/
Excellent opportunity to report Glidden to the authorities for PPP loan fraud and even get paid for doing one’s patriotic (and anti-communistic) duty. How great is that?
https://laws101.com/get-paid-for-reporting-ppp-loan-fraud/