It is a seemingly never-ending battle to help prevent consumers from being scammed by MLM schemes. Today we look to examine another one of them: Youngevity.
I had a reader ask me about Youngevity the other day. We’ll call him Spike. He wrote:
“Have you done any research on the Youngevity products & Dr. Joel Wallach? I have been taking their Tangy Tangerine product as well as the EFA’s & Osteo FX over the last 3 months. I read your article on Lifevantage and was very impressed by the depth of your study. Just wanted to see if you have uncovered anything with Youngevity.”
I had never heard of Youngevity. However, having looked into other MLM scams, I know one of the first places to look at is the cost of the product. Why? Because MLMs often require their distributors buy product to participate in the opportunity. The artificially expensive product pays the company hefty margins, and distributors often pay the surcharge month after month as a fee for what they feel will make them money.
When I looked into the prices of Youngevity’s products, it had all the tell-tale signs of an MLM scam.
The Value of Tangy Tangerine
The first product that Spike mentioned was Tangy Tangerine, a 32 ounce drink that is highly packed with vitamins and minerals. At a cost of around $40 for a 30 day supply it is upwards of $1.25 per serving. I did a quick search on Amazon and found Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men Multivitamins (180-pack) , which was similarly highly packed with vitamins and minerals. I didn’t compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close, more in some areas, less in others. The price on Amazon for Opti-Men is 10 cents a pill and 3 pills are in a serving, for a total of 30 cents a serving. So instead of paying $40 a month for Tangy Tangerine, you could be paying about $9-10 a month. Some of the reviews said Opti-Men was really powerful and there’s really no need to take three capsules, so you might find that you can save even more money by taking just one or two. (Side Note: The Opti-Men was the first thing I saw, I bet there’s an equivalent women’s version that is similar.)
Price per serving: $0.30 vs $1.25 in favor of Opti-Men. That’s a savings of a little more than 75%.
With Tangy Tangerine, another concern I have is with the marketing of this product. On the bottle it says “with 115 vegetables and fruits.” There are no fruit and vegetables in 500mg of powder and certainly not 115. Anyone buying into this claim should take a bottle to their doctor or medical professional (who isn’t affiliated with the MLM) and ask them if you can stop eating vegetables because you are getting 115 from Tangy Tangerine. I image they’ll find that humorous.
The Value of EPA Plus
Next up is EPA Plus. This supplement is like fish oil, but it is a blend of healthy oils like flaxseed. On the web I found it available for around $30 for 90 capsules, which is equivalent to 90 servings. That’s 30 cents a serving. So what’s the Amazon near equivalent?
It’s Omega 3-6-9 Gold. It has the mix of different sources of good fats as well. It is $13 for 180 capsules which turns out to be 7 cents a serving… and at 1200mg you are getting more product. Update: 12/30/2013: Looks like that product is currently unavailable from Amazon. However, I spent another 30 seconds coming up with a good alternative from Amazon:
NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9 1000mg. It is around $15 for 250 capsules… 6 cents per capsule. If you use Amazon’s Subscribe and Save, you can knock that down another 20% for a price of around $12.50.
Price per serving: $0.06 vs $0.30 in favor of NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9. That’s 1/5th the price or 80% off of the Youngevity price… and it gets even cheaper with Subscribe and Save.
The Value of Osteo Plus
At this point, I got a little tired of searching, so I literally took the first thing that I found on Amazon and it seemed close to the Osteo Plus blend. Specifically, I am referring to: Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. I had to look at another website to get the nutritional information on this product as it wasn’t nicely available on Amazon. The nutritional information shows a more diverse blend than Youngevity’s Osteo Plus, but with lower amounts of calcium and vitamin D. These are the big things you’d be looking for in a osteo complex, so it looks like a bad fit. However, keep in mind that the Opti-Men product above had additional calcium and vitamin D, plus there’s the nutrients that you get from your regular diet. That should make up any difference. OsteoPrime Plus is priced at $17 for 120 capsules. However with 4 capsules per serving that is a 30-day supply on Amazon. The price for Youngevity’s Osteo Plus online that I saw was $41 also for a 32-day supply.
Price per serving: $0.57 vs. $1.28 in favor of Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. This time the savings are closer to 55%.
I should mention that these don’t seem to be random products that Spike picked out. They all seem to be part of what is calls the Youngevity Healthy Start package. This $112 product has the 30-day supply of all three Youngevity products. The price of this is combination on this site and this site is $112 (as of 4/27/2012). The later makes it seem like it a value as it normally costs $159.00. At $112, that’s $3.73 a day. The price of the three items that I listed above: 94 cents a day. That’s a savings of between 67-75%… or between $689.85 and $1018.35 a year.
The typical case for MLM is that the quality of the MLM product is better than any you compare it to. Clearly if both products were identical Honda Accords you wouldn’t pay more. This puts the pressure on the MLM to prove that its product is significantly better. This is where they hire a couple of medical professionals as scientific experts, but the reality is that they are paid spokesmen. What you really need to know when it comes to vitamins is that there’s a non-profit organization that you can trust: the United States Pharmacopeia. You’ll find these products have USP Verified Dietary Supplement Mark on them. I’ve talked to a lot of pharmacists and they all say that this is the place to start and end your search for supplement quality… however many admitted to me that standards are generally so good they don’t look for it themselves and just buy the cheapest generic brand.
Absorption of Youngevity and other Vitamins
Some commenters have tried to ignore this point about the USP. When they do, they often say that cheap vitamins aren’t absorbed well or that liquid absorbs better. It’s worth noting that there are no studies on Youngevity’s products absorption. If Youngevity’s products do absorb better than its competitors and this is indeed an important factor, why is there zero analysis on it? Another thing to keep in mind is that when researchers and scientists are researching vitamins, they often don’t choose liquid sources or even state the brand of vitamins at all. Why would scientists/researchers time and again choose to go through all the trouble of conducting studies with products that are known to be poor? The answer is that they aren’t using poor products.
Consumer Reports addresses the absorption of liquid vs. solid vitamins:
“Q. My wife pays a premium for liquid vitamin and mineral supplements, which are supposedly better absorbed by the body. Are they worth the cost? —D.P., Sacramento, Calif.
A. Probably not, unless your wife has trouble swallowing solid supplements. In theory, liquid supplements should be better absorbed by the stomach since they’re already dissolved. But there has been little research to substantiate that idea. And at least some evidence has shown no meaningful difference.”
I’d add that even if she has trouble swallowing solid supplements, there’s amazing technology called pill crushing that has existed for years which solves this.
When it comes to Youngevity it is worth keeping in mind the “Can I Pay Less for Something of Similar Value?” game.
However, perhaps the biggest thing to consider is that recent research is showing that supplements may do more harm than good.
It simply doesn’t make any sense to spend more money on something that doesn’t seem to work in the first place.
Update (12/16/2013): The well-respected medical journal Annals of Internal Medicine says, “Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements”.
This CNN article covered the situation well:
“The (vitamin and supplement) industry is based on anecdote, people saying ‘I take this, and it makes me feel better,’ said Dr. Edgar Miller, professor of medicine and epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and co-author of the editorial.’ It’s perpetuated. But when you put it to the test, there’s no evidence of benefit in the long term. It can’t prevent mortality, stroke or heart attack’.”
Many of the smartest people in the world have done the research on hundreds and thousands of people and haven’t anything that helps, and even found that it could be dangerous.
“Doctor” Joel Wallach
It’s worth noting that Youngevity is associated with “Doctor” Joel Wallach. Who is he? According to Skepdic he is a veterinarian and a naturopath.
The American Cancer Society sums up what you need to know about Naturopathy: “Available scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease, since virtually no studies on naturopathy as a whole have been published.”[Update: When I wrote the article it seemed like a safe bet that most people would consider one of the largest non-profits/charity with the goal of rid the world of cancer reputable, but I’ve received a few comments from people, probably Youngevity distributors, that are to the effect of “This guy believes the American Cancer Society, now I know I can’t trust him.”
There are numerous other reputable sources that make the point that naturopathy is quackery, not supported by the proven scientific method. There’s a list of six accredited Naturopathic schools (at the time of this update) and not one of them is associated with any university you have likely heard of. If you are one of the few odd people who are against the American Cancer Society, the point about naturopathy being quackery is well established by other reputalbe institutions.]
I love animals and my aunt is a veterinarian, but I’m not taking advice for my own health from a veterinarian and person who bases their treatments on things that haven’t been scientifically proven. There are hundreds medical doctors in a few square miles from where I live that are hundreds of times more qualified that Wallach. I’d put nutritionists as more qualified when it comes to supplementation as well.
I put “Doctor” in quote when referring to Wallach, because he’s a doctor in the sense that my wife, who has a doctorate in pharmacy (she’s a pharmacist) is a doctor. It’s a fair title for her education, but she doesn’t use the doctor title, nor does anyone else.
That skepdic article on Wallach is very illuminating as it goes into various antics that he’s done over the years. It is clear that he’s misrepresenting himself and making up lies (woman in China who lived to be 250?”)
Does Youngevity Work?
Sorry, but Youngevity joins the long list of MLM products with distributors claiming there are miracle health cures. Why do people make such claims? If you read nothing else today, read this: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not “Work”
About Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research (INR) (Update: 3/01/2013)
A few commenters (mostly distributors) have asked about where I stand on the “Clemson study” on Youngevity products.
Reading the Clemson press release on the relationship with Youngevity is interesting. Here’s a key sentence: “[Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research] goals are to develop greater confidence in product quality, effectiveness and enhance consumer demand for quality nutraceutical products.” (emphasis on “enhance consumer demand” is my own)
You know what another word for “enhancing consumer demand” is? Marketing. In other words Clemson’s goal is to market nutraceutical products, and Youngevity pays them money for that. Ever hear of the rich person whose kid isn’t all that bright, but he got into the top college anyway? The school just happened to get a nice library donated by rich family. The parallels here are obvious.
On February 5th, 2013, I noted that the website for Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research is not functional. Some may argue that I have the wrong URL there, but if I do, Google does too from this screenshot. As of this update, March 1, 2013, the website is still not functional.
In addition to the website being down for nearly a month a Google search for Clemson Institute of Nutraceutical Research gives almost all results for Youngevity. I couldn’t find any other research it has done aside from Youngevity, which is an obvious red flag.
Lastly as Commenter Mark Harris pointed out, Clemson’s INR is not listed on Clemson’s list of over 100 institutes and research centers (as of 12/30/2013).
With the website being down for months, lack of information about other studies, and Clemson’s own failure to recognize it, is that it is hard to take the institute, and hence this research, seriously.
With that said, I feel it is important to address the Clemson “research” itself. With that in mind, let’s take a look at the press release from AL International. One of the first things that pops of the page is that they classify the work as clinical research. However, it is quite clear from the study that this is laboratory research done on test tubes and not clinical research done on humans.
When you mix something up that basic, it’s hard to have any trust in the rest of the “study.”
Much of the press release focused on product safety. While we should all be concerned about safety, vitamins are generally considered safe, so such research is not necessary. If you were to read a review of a $200,000 car saying that it got people from point A to point B without exploding, you would probably be suspicious why they are focusing on something that even cheap cars should be able to do. You don’t buy a Ferrari because it doesn’t spontaneously explode, you buy it because it supposed to deliver an advantage over other cars.
The other part of the article focused on kill cancer cells in a test tube (i.e. cell cultures). On the surface, this seems like compelling information. However, seven years ago we found acai killed cancer cells in a test tube. Not only acai, but according to this USDA article a number of foods kill cancer in test tubes. Heck, even pot slows cancer in tubes.
The important thing to take away here is that lots of things, including vitamins kill cancer in test tubes. Clemson could have saved a lot of time if they weren’t in the business of marketing Youngevity by looking at the existing research. This US News article:
Recent clinical trials, for example, suggest that supplements of single nutrients like vitamins B, C, and E and the mineral selenium do not, as once thought, prevent chronic or age-related diseases including prostate and other kinds of cancer. Some substances, like green tea and ginger, seem to have potential in preventing or helping to treat cancer, but they may also actually interfere with treatment or have other serious side effects. Meantime, countless substances that kill or slow the growth of cancer cells in a test tube have not shown that same success in human beings.
So Youngevity, and it’s various ingredients are added to the list of “countless substances that kill or slow growth of cancer cells in a test tube”, but “have not shown the same success in human beings.
Here’s a thought from a pharmacist that I know and trust: “Bleach kills cancer cells in a test tube… I’m not going to drink it any time soon.” She might have been joking with the last part, but the point is clear: We are not test tubes. Few test tubes read this article… and they aren’t concerned about cancer. Many more humans read this article and I presume they are more interested in the fact that the research does not show success for them.
Even Youngevity’s own brochure on the study comes with a disclaimer: “Clemson University only supports the statistical data and analysis provided here. Clemson University does not support, endorse, or sponsor Youngevity or any of its products. Clemson University and its researchers are not affiliated in any way
with Youngevity Essential Life Sciences.”
As commenter Vogel put it: “There you have it. According to Youngevity, Clemson’s only contribution to this misleading research was the statistical analysis of the data. They did not generate the data itself.”
However, I’d take it a step further and suggest that the brochure itself is a violation of the FDA rules for marketing supplements. The FDA has sent this this warning letter to Nature’s Pearl. It specifically states:
“When scientific publications are used commercially by the seller of a product to promote the product to consumers, such publications may become evidence of the product’s intended use. For example, under 21 CFR 101.93(g)(2)(iv)(C), a citation of a publication or reference in the labeling of a product is considered a claim about disease treatment or prevention if the citation refers to a disease use, and if, in the context of the labeling as a whole, the citation implies treatment or prevention of a disease.”
This brochure with “anti-cancer” prominently in the title and throughout the brochure appears to be evidence of the product’s intended use. The small box at the end of the brochure reading “These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease” should tell you everything you need to know about Youngevity and cancer in clear and in no uncertain terms.
Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.
Bottom Line: Clemson duplicated research that was already well known to be irrelevant in an attempt to provide marketing for Youngevity. They didn’t do any clinical trials (tests in humans) of the product, presumably because they knew in advance it wouldn’t have given the positive result that Youngevity paid for.
When Youngevity puts out a press release saying, “The INR is a national leader in nutritional research and one of the most highly regarded organizations in the field of phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals” it is clear that it is complete bovine excrement.
Clemson Update (March 2017)
Truth in Advertising has archived the Youngevity Pamphlet on the Clemson study and has added it to it’s Youngevity Health Claims Database. They wrote a great Youngevity information article themselves that you should read.
The Daily Beast wrote about Youngevity too. Specifically they noted “questionable Clemson University research”. The article went further to get Clemson to officially comment and Clemson spokesperson Robin Denny told The Daily Beast:
“Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research did some limited preliminary laboratory research for Youngevity several years ago. No clinical trials were performed and Clemson has in no way endorsed any Youngevity product nor authorized the use of Clemson’s name or data in conjunction with any claims of efficacy. The Institute no longer exists.”
I’m not a legal expert, but it sounds to me that the spokesperson is saying that Youngevity shouldn’t have produced the pamphlet.
Youngevity and Depleted Soil
It seems that Youngevity is coaching its distributors to say that today’s soil is depleted of vitamins and minerals in order to create demand for their product. It sounds plausible until you look at little deeper.
Behind the deception there is a nugget of truth, which is what they use to sell you down this erroneous line of thinking. There is some credible information that some soil is deficient of vitamins according to this Scientific American article that cites a few sources. It is far from conclusive. That’s problem #1 with the argument, but for sake of argument we’ll pretend it is conclusive. There are a lot more problems.
A Youngevity distributor pitching this has made the bad inference that because we might be getting less than before we aren’t getting enough. If McDonalds cut the calories of its Double Quarter Pounder you probably wouldn’t be looking to add more to make up for “a deficiency.” It’s quite possible we were getting more than we needed in the past and still get enough (which I will cover in a minute). That’s problem #2.
Next, there’s sufficient research that supplements are a waste of money. That’s analysis of dozens of different studies on hundreds of thousands of people. Conspiracy theorists will say that article is biased or created by a “sickness industry”, but these people have no answer for why the same doctors and scientists put their loved through chemotherapy if vitamins and minerals actually worked. Getting back to the article, the conclusion was:
“The large body of accumulated evidence has important public health and clinical implications. Evidence is sufficient to advise against routine supplementation, and we should translate null and negative findings into action. The message is simple: Most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death, their use is not justified, and they should be avoided. This message is especially true for the general population with no clear evidence of micronutrient deficiencies, who represent most supplement users in the United States and in other countries.… we believe that the case is closed— supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful.“
I’ve added emphasis to three important parts. Supplements are not advised… problem #3. There is no evidence of micronutrient deficiencies in the United States and in other countries. This supports the point I made above in problem #2… we get enough. In fact, the people who are looking into Youngevity are probably those who are health-conscious and thus more likely to have a healthy diet that is devoid of deficiencies.
The final point the article makes is that supplements might even be harmful. That’s problem #4. You not only don’t appear to be helping yourself, but you might even be hurting yourself.
I’ve heard people try to discount that article and the science. They do everything can (like the “sickness industry” I mentioned above). I can’t understand how these people believe in some science and not others. They’ll take the whole thing about depleted soil as a given even though there’s far less analysis of that and throw out all the science about vitamins and minerals not being helpful. It’s as if they want to believe in addition, but not multiplication. It simply doesn’t make any sense to pick and choose arbitrarily.
Now let’s get to problem #5. Back in the Scientific American article they presented a solution to the depleted soil problem. It wasn’t supplements. “… foregoing pesticides and fertilizers in favor of organic growing methods is good for the soil, the produce and its consumers. Those who want to get the most nutritious fruits and vegetables should buy regularly from local organic farmers.”
And then there is problem #6 to this argument. It doesn’t give anyone a reason to buy Youngevity’s overpriced supplements (using the above analysis).
Vogel brings up another 7 more problems with depleted soil in this comment. Specifically:
- the main study cited, “did not look at any measurements of nutrient levels in soil”
- “the authors did not conclude that that the apparent decline in nutrient levels was attributable to soil depletion… that a difference in the strains being cultivated, not soil depletion, was the probable cause of the apparent decline in nutrient levels”
- “Some of the nutrients that apparently declined were only marginally lower, which is not likely to be clinically relevant”
- an apple from the 1950s might have higher levels of alar and DDT and other banned pesticides
- improvements in transportation allow for better access to a variety of fruits than in the 1950s.
- the diet in the 1950s was not very good (“potatoes and iceberg lettuce” cited), there is much more nutritional awareness today.
- “… diseases due to dietary nutritional deficiencies (like scurvy, rickets, beri beri, pellagra, etc.) were not uncommon in the 50s but have now been virtually eradicated in the U.S. due to improvements in standard of living and diet.”
About Youngevity’s Parent Company
One thing that came out of the Clemson research that I initially overlooked (I felt it was more important to focus on the product), is that the company is owned by AL International, a publicly traded company that is a penny stock. On January 25th, when the Clemson “research” press release came out, the stock was trading at 16.5 cents a share (I didn’t realize the stock market took ha’pennies). The total value of the company was 65 million dollars, less than some athletes sign for over 2-3 years. Stock prices vary and after the Clemson marketing, Youngevity got the desired result, a significant bump in stock price as penny stocks can do at times. (Note: they can drop just as quickly and are not very good investments.)
I tried to give a fair review to Youngevity based on its products in general, but as I’ve found in every MLM that I’ve looked at, the organization usually is centered around a few charlatans.
Update: I was pointed towards this great first person account with Youngevity. It is extremely long and detailed, but well worth your time if you are considering buying these products or getting into the business. The author actually became a nutritionist because Youngevity’s Wallach was slandering doctors making them seem untrustworthy all why claiming that their “glacial milk” was the answer. Here are some great quotes:
“So rather than just believing the bunch of facts and figures that were thrown at me by my lecturers, I approached the claims that Wallach had made by asking ‘where is the evidence?’ What I discovered was that Wallach’s claims were not only inaccurate but they were nothing more than very clever lies, designed to lull vulnerable people into a false sense of security in order to relieve them of their money.”
“I had also come across a handful of people from the church who had been approached by AL distributors claiming to cure them of their health conditions, many of them who had received no benefit but were too shy or ashamed to let their story be heard. Funnily enough, it was only those who for whatever reason, believed that they had been cured, whose testimonials were given at meetings and printed on the plethora of AL’s advertising material.”
“… I should simply stand up and ask Wallach why he was misleading people and to question him in front of the audience (of several hundred people) and the cameras. I did of course, which resulted in my swift removal (including being physically dragged out and thrown down a flight of stairs)…”
The story is truly amazing and should make it very clear that it best to avoid Youngevity and its marketing tactics that aren’t properly supported by any real evidence.
It is the SAME couple of people who reply to all of the NEW comments. What I can’t understand is why they would make the time in their life to do so, don’t you have better things to do – what is in it for you? I know I am way too busy to care about the non-sense you people are so passionate about. Don’t you work, or have a life outside of this anti-youngevity posting? Please remove me from receiving more notifications, I am so done with this. I continue to be happy with the results from these products or I wouldn’t continue to buy them. Maybe I’ll become a distributor some day and then you can add me to your long list of negative name callings, and I will just smile at you. Thank you and good riddance.
Mi said: “It is the SAME couple of people who reply to all of the NEW comments.”
One of them is Lazy Man – the operator of the blog. It’s hard to imagine why you would find it surprising that he responds to posts on his blog.
Mi said: “What I can’t understand is why they would make the time in their life to do so, don’t you have better things to do – what is in it for you?”
It’s a safe bet that list of things you don’t understand is a very long one. It’s not at all difficult to understand why people might be motivated to comment; intellectual curiosity and a civic duty to protect people from being scammed by lying a-holes, for instance. You made time in your life to post a completely worthless gripe, so it’s ironic that you profess to not understand why others take the time to write thoughtful and cogent comments.
Mi said: “I know I am way too busy to care about the non-sense you people are so passionate about.”
Obviously you are not too busy or you wouldn’t have posted.
Mi said: “Don’t you work, or have a life outside of this anti-youngevity posting?”
You’re a special kind of idiot for asking that question. Posting comments a couple of times a month doesn’t impede one’s work or life outside the blog. Even if it did, it should be of no concern to you. And Lazy Man has a plethora of articles on his site; the Youngevity article is merely one out of hundreds.
Mi said: “Please remove me from receiving more notifications, I am so done with this.”
You could just uncheck the box you checked to opt in for the e-mails in the first place. Or you could hit the unsubscribe button on the e-mail notification. But no, you’d rather stamp your feet and make that embarrassingly pathetic declaration instead.
Mi said: “I continue to be happy with the results from these products or I wouldn’t continue to buy them.”
What results might those be and why wouldn’t you provide the details in the first place? The products are worthless snake-oil used as bait for a pyramid scheme by shameless scammers. Your anonymous, threadbare, unverifiable claim of “results” is utterly worthless.
Mi said: “Maybe I’ll become a distributor some day and then you can add me to your long list of negative name callings, and I will just smile at you. Thank you and good riddance.”
Maybe (definitely) you are one already. Congrats! You already made the long list of negatives about Youngevity. Have fun wasting your life with these a-holes and when you inevitably lose your money, time, and friends, remember that we warned you.
Thanks for nothing and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Lazy Man says
Please use the instructions at the bottom of any notification you receive to unsubscribe. Thank you.
I have personally been with the company and taking the products for 20 years. I can tell you from experience that it’s the only product that you can actually feel working…you feel the life come into every cell of your body as you provide nutrients that your body has not had for years. If you want to continue to take One A Day vitamins thinking that you are doing a good thing for your body….then be my guest but your body can’t and won’t break it down….so you get nothing from there…there is no security there. Dr. Wallach was a veterinarian and a darn good one at that….he saw that animals get more nutrients than people….so he furthered his studies to help people. You need 90- essential nutrients every single day…90! They are called essential because your body needs them. that is 60 minerals, 16 vitamins, 12 amino acids and 2 EFAs. If you have a health challenge then there are supplements to add on to meet your individual needs. I am almost 65 years young take extra calcium for my bones, stomach enzymes because digestion decreases with age. Have you sat down and went through Dr. Wallachs literature, and how he got to be where he is today? Have you taken a product and done a double blind study to show that it contains everything that is on the label? The Youngevity products are what they say they are and you are getting a quality product. Have you listened to his radio shows or listened to his very lengthy lectures? I have. I worked in the medical field in the lab for almost 30 years and do alot of research before I jump on any wagon. the Youngevity wagon is a hard one to jump off of….it’s health and health has a price tag just like anything else. I paid $10. to join 20 years ago…I haven’t paid anything since except for my products. I have compared products to other products and they just don’t compare to Youngevity products….the price is very reasonable! I haven’t done the MLM part because I just like taking the product and I do tell others…but people would rather go to Walmart and get One A Day than to invest in their health. People my age have a baggie full of pill bottle…I don’t…I am active and my health is good….and I look forward to my daily does of health from Youngevity…every single day.
Lazy Man says
You feel the life coming into you from taking a vitamin? That doesn’t make any sense.
It’s been scientifically proven for years that people get plenty of nutrients and supplements don’t work.
I think I did a pretty fair comparison in this article, and I don’t know how you can say the price is reasonable.
Teresa said: “I can tell you from experience that it’s the only product that you can actually feel working…you feel the life come into every cell of your body as you provide nutrients that your body has not had for years.”
That’s an absurd statement. You cannot feel “life come into” the cells of your body. You may as well be claiming that you have ESP; it would be no less absurd.
Teresa said: “If you want to continue to take One A Day vitamins thinking that you are doing a good thing for your body….then be my guest but your body can’t and won’t break it down….so you get nothing from there…”
More absurd misinformation! The notion that nutrients in a vitamin pill aren’t routinely absorbed is nonsense.
Teresa said: “Dr. Wallach was a veterinarian and a darn good one at that….he furthered his studies to help people.”
He may have been a veterinarian but I see no evidence that he was a “darn good” one, nor would skills as a veterinarian qualify him to diagnose or treat human illnesses. I also see no evidence that he ever did any studies of any kind in humans. Pulling random statements out of yer arse like that is foolish and deceptive.
Teresa said: “You need 90- essential nutrients every single day…90!”
Not true. You even got that trivial detail wrong. That’s Youngevity marketing BS; nothing more; and it has nothing to do with the value, or lack thereof, of Youngevity’s BS rip-off products.
Teresa said: “Have you sat down and went through Dr. Wallachs literature”
Yes, I have; in greater detail than you ever will – and a more laughable pile of worthless BS would be hard to imagine.
Teresa said: “Have you listened to his radio shows or listened to his very lengthy lectures?”
Again, yes. See comment above.
Teresa said: “I worked in the medical field in the lab for almost 30 years”
Funny! People who have significant jobs in “the medical field” don’t say that they work “in the medical field”. They say that they are a nurse, a doctor, an orderly, a medical receptionist, etc.. The only people who say vaguely that they are in “the medical field” are those who lack legitimate medical credentials but pretend otherwise.
Teresa said: “Youngevity wagon is a hard one to jump off of”
Au contraire! One would have to be a gullible sucker, a desperado and/or an MLM predator to jump on Youngevity’s wagon.
Teresa said: “I have compared products to other products and they just don’t compare to Youngevity products….the price is very reasonable!”
You may as well be saying that you arbitrarily came to the conclusion that gravity doesn’t exist. Show us your calculations! We have done multiple comparisons and Youngevity’s products come out looking like a sick joke. Their insanely deceptive error-ridden anti-scientific fear-mongering marketing BS is the icing on the cake.
Laurenia Steele says
I’ve done my research on Dr. Joel Wallach. I believe that you can’t place judgment until you really investigate his background and his research. Not to mention the history of nutrition, the biology, physiology of the body and the formation of the American Medical Association (this is a revelation to most because it was formed by elitist). If more people would do extensive research rather than to believe all they read and hear they would be better equipped to making their own decisions and with contentment and without argument. The formulations of Youngevity’s products are of high quality and are loaded with much nutrients. Not all supplements are alike. For instance, in the Youngevity EFA Omega, nitrogen is injected into the capsule to avoid the oils from becoming rancid. Oils do go rancid and when this happens it sticks to arteries. There are only a very few Omega oil supplements out on the market that do inject nitrogen. I can go into this in further depth on supplement quality, but I don’t have the time. All I ask is that you continue to do an extensive research on nutrition and what the body requires to sustain life on a daily basis to its optimum level. I’ve been working in the medical field for 20+ years at hospitals and different facilities. The many doctor’s that I’ve worked with are licensed M.D.’s and I can tell you with much truth, there have been a few that indeed were quacks! And, they still continue to practice. Sometimes they are suspended for a short time, but back to practicing all over again and practicing the same evil. Yet, naturopathic doctor’s get such a bad rap. Why? Because they believe that the body has his own healing process and they try to avoid the unnecessary use of certain medications that toxify the body even more? We all know that medications only mask the core of the problem. In the event of an emergency, medications to survive may be needed, and that’s perfectly reasonable. Granted, there are quacks, but to sling that derogatory word at naturopathic doctor’s is not fair. They truly believe and are passionate in their field. They are not ignorant, or uneducated. They too, have to go through extensive and rigorous education. I believe M.D.’s and N.D.’s can benefit from each other, but that’s just my opinion. With all that being said .. back to work for me.
Lazy Man says
It’s great for you to say that you’ve done research, but you haven’t provided any of that research here. I have presented my research in the article. You are asking us to believe your “research” when it could very come from a founder of the company writing under a pseudonym.
In short, you provide no proof, just trust me. I have provided information from authoritative sources.
I love how the people who claim to have done research don’t understand the concept of a paragraph.
You know that MLM companies contract 3rd party manufacturers to make the supplements, right? It’s not some kind of magic or anything unique to the companies.
We have no evidence to the validity of you working at hospitals or that those things with doctors are true. It’s called using anecdotal fallacy. For the most part, doctors who have a dozen or more years of advanced education are not quacks.
Naturopathic doctors get a “bad rap” because they aren’t really doctors and haven’t gone to 12 years of medical school. It isn’t extensive at all in comparison. Remember naturopathy is widely the same as quackery. You might find a few “flat earthers” who think differently, but it’s not a broad opinion.
The body does not always heal itself. This is a great lie that all the naturopaths tell. How does the body heal Alzheimer’s? If I break my arm, but don’t go to the hospital to have it set will the body it? Some of the body’s systems can help it heal over time, but it isn’t everything… and most importantly for this discussion, supplements don’t come into play at all.
It’s great to be passionate about something. I’m passionate about watching my football team. It doesn’t make me qualified to coach them.
Laurenia Steele (Youngevity shill using a clearly fake name) said: “I’ve done my research on Dr. Joel Wallach. I believe that you can’t place judgment until you really investigate his background and his research.”
You must be joking. A more mundane and unimpressive resume would be hard to find. A veterinarian who hasn’t practiced veterinary medicine in at least four decades; an unaccomplished hack who got a certificate in naturopathy and spent all his time since lying about how his moronic low-grade dietary supplements like Tangy Tangerine miraculously cure everything.
It should be pointed out however that even if his resume were sterling, it still would have no bearing on the fact that Youngevity’s products are laughably worthless garbage being used to front a hopelessly corrupt pyramid scheme.
Laurenia Steele said: “…Not to mention the history of nutrition, the biology, physiology of the body and the formation of the American Medical Association.”
What a moronic dodge that was. One need know nothing at all about any of those things to pass judgement on Youngevity and instantly recognize it as a scam of epic proportions. BTW, there’s a place where people go to learn all that stuff – it’s called medical school — a place that you and Wallach have never been anywhere near.
Laurenia Steele said: “If more people would do extensive research rather than to believe all they read and hear they would be better equipped to making their own decisions.”
I have done more research on Youngevity than you ever will, and under every rock I turned over, something slimy and revolting came slithering out. Again, what you have here is a pyramid scheme and a worthless product being hyped as a miracle cure by a jackass charlatan and his cohort of simpering toadies.
Laurenia Steele said: “I can go into this in further depth on supplement quality, but I don’t have the time.”
But going into further depth is the only reason for commenting! You’re basically arguing that everyone who criticizes these jackass criminals is wrong because you did invisible research that you refuse to share because you’re too busy! You’re every bit as ridiculous as everyone else who has ever whored themselves for this embarrassing fart-joke of a company.
Laurenia Steele said: “I’ve been working in the medical field for 20+ years at hospitals and different facilities.”
Do you know who says that kind of thing? Liars! At best, you may have swept floors or answered phones at a clinic once upon a time but now here you are pretending that you have expertise in medicine when you clearly don’t. Posturing like that is cringe-worthy.
Laurenia Steele said: “The many doctor’s that I’ve worked with are licensed M.D.’s and I can tell you with much truth, there have been a few that indeed were quacks! And, they still continue to practice.”
Let’s just be straight up here OK. You know NOTHING about medicine and have no expertise in the field whatsoever. Stop pretending. You’re just embarrassing yourself and Youngevity even further.
Laurenia Steele said: “Yet, naturopathic doctor’s get such a bad rap. Why?”
Because, like you, they pretend to be medical experts and use whatever scant credibility they may appear to have to sell people things that are at best worthless and at worst downright dangerous.
Laurenia Steele said: “We all know that medications only mask the core of the problem.”
It depends on the medication, but one things that’s clear – you know nothing but how to be a dishonest disgraceful shill for an embarrassment of a company that should have been shut down long ago.
Laurenia Steele said: “Granted, there are quacks, but to sling that derogatory word at naturopathic doctor’s is not fair.”
Slinging it a Wallach and Glidden is entirely fair. Two ne’er-do-wells more deserving of being called “quack” would be hard to find. Let’s be 100% clear – these a-holes are telling people that Tangy Tangerine will miraculously cure a plethora of diseases; they are bilking little old ladies for their cancer money. These creeps deserve to be marched down main street in dunce caps while being pelted with rocks; but I’d settle for seeing them fined into oblivion and jailed.
Laurenia Steele said: “With all that being said .. back to work for me.”
Work??? ROFL. Is that the term you use to describe dialing up distant acquaintances to lure them into a pyramid scheme centered around a supplement scam run by predatory creeps and liars. Eesh, how do you look in the mirror and not throw up or cry.
You are CLEARLY one of those “settled science” people who’s never had a though of his own, nor cares to because – you don’t need to. “The science is settled.”
And then you bring up closed mindedness is such a way that you’re claiming to be the open minded one, while people are telling you their stories that contradict your proclamation of settled science.
Maybe your settled science isn’t as settled as you think.
Lazy Man says
Ninja97. You are wrong. I’ve been very, very open-minded to new scientifically proven information. The problem is that non has been forthcoming with the topic of supplements and vitamins after decades and decades and literally hundreds of thousands of studies.
The problem of people telling “contradictory” stories is that they aren’t science to the contrary. They are explained by a scientifically-proven concept called The Placebo Effect that has been known for centuries. Scientists have had a process in place for probably well over a hundred years that has been replicated millions of times called a blinded placebo control study. (It gets more advanced than this, but I’m simplifying things here). If the science isn’t settled, there’s a very easy process to show whether there is true cause and effect.
You simply have proven my point that the science is settled. Of course, you would know all of this if you had an 8th graders’ knowledge of how science is conducted.
He gets paid by big pharma to bash these companies.
[Editor’s Response: Nope, Big Pharma has never paid me a dime. They haven’t even offered me a dime. I explained why I have written about MLM hundreds of times before.]
That is just one article right off the bat….our soils have been stripped of nutrients …we get very little…if you don’t supplement your body will break down faster and if you take medicine…there goes your liver, etc etc Yes! You can feel these nutrients…you feel the energy, your mind gets clearer…you don’;t have that brain fog, fatigue is lifted….if you haven’t taken them for 90 days yourself then you can’t judge something you haven’t experienced for yourself. Being a MLM company is beside the point… Youngevity has proven itself over and over again with many many people who have experienced the difference in their own lives.
Lazy Man says
Did you read the article? I covered that specific article.
Being an MLM company is not besides the point. If you read the article, it’s kind of a core thing, I think. However, you are entitled to your own opinion of the article.
Teresa said: “That is just one article right off the bat….our soils have been stripped of nutrients … https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/ ”
Don’t believe everything you read. Neither of the two authors (Roddy Scheer and Doug Moss) of that blog/editorial in Scientific American are scientists, and apparently they didn’t even read the studies they cited. Case in point — they stated the following:
“The main culprit in this disturbing nutritional trend is soil depletion”
They then cited this study as their proof:
However, that study didn’t measure nutrient levels in soil, and they came to the conclusion that any declines in nutrient content were due to changes in the strains/varieties of fruits and vegetables cultivated in 1999 vs 1950. It had NOTHING to do with soil nutrient depletion. In fact they directly refuted the notion of soil nutrient depletion as a contributing factor. The study’s conclusion, which you and the authors of that Scientific American editorial article apparently never bothered to read, makes it abundantly clear:
“We suggest that any real declines are generally most easily explained by changes in cultivated varieties between 1950 and 1999, in which there may be trade-offs between yield and nutrient content.”
“Factors other than soil mineral concentrations seem to have primary control of food mineral contents for the foods and minerals studied here.”
This disconnect from reality is what happens when unqualified hacks try to interpret scientific research for the popular press. Heaven help anyone gullible enough to listen to a self-serving idiot like Wallach, or worse still, one of the Youngevity minions who bombard blogs like this with BS. You should be embarrassed for being so stridently ignorant.
However, you do get paid as a blogger.
[Editor’s response: There are literally thousands of personal finance bloggers who make money from advertising. If someone got paid for writing a book, you could say, “However, you do get as an author.” In other unsurprising and useless news, I was also born with two eyes, a nose, and a mouth.]
Besides, we have no proof that Big Pharma isn’t paying you.
[Editor’s response: You also have no proof that I’m not a time-traveling space octopus from the planet Kalmar. This article isn’t about Big Pharma or anything related to them, so it wouldn’t make sense that they’d pay me. I’m also not paid by Big Circus.]
By-the-way, I didn’t even bother reading the rest of your reply. You appear to be a whiner. Your responses of your “research” are clearly one-sided. I don’t believe you either.
[Editor’s response: You spent a lot of time commenting on something that you didn’t read, and made an opinion about what I appear to be when you didn’t read it. It isn’t surprising to find one’s opinions against MLM scams as “one-sided”, but I’d like to say that I’m on the side of the of the FTC’s which protects consumers. You are welcome to not believe me, but since you can’t be bothered to read what I write, it’s a pretty empty belief.]
Your not an M.D., nor are you licensed to even comment.
[Editor’s response: I don’t think anyone can be licensed to write blog comments.]
For myself, I’m giving my opinion on what I do know, whether I’m credible or not is irrelevant. This is not my show.
[Editor’s response: If you are not credible, then no one should value your opinion. I have given my opinion and stated the logic, math, and citations with it. Even if people think I’m not credible, they can look at the logic, math, and citations and make their own determination. Remember, that 2 + 2 = 4 is true even if a Space Octopus says it.]
Like I explained to you before, I don’t have time to cite. That’s your job, not mine.
[Editor’s response: You get to assign me the homework of trying to find a needle in a haystack when the evidence shows that there was never a needle in the first place. Everyone must support their own claims. If you don’t have time to cite, you shouldn’t be making claims.]
I’m not even here to convince you. You do an extremely poor job of responding and very unprofessional. You create the negativity to gain more responses.
[Editor’s response: I have always responded respectfully and professionally. Maybe you are referring to Vogel who is a reader of this blog just like you and many of the other commenters here.]
The more responses, the more you get paid.
[Editor’s response: This is true, but we are talking literally pennies. I have around 2500 articles.]
Isn’t that what your purpose for being here?
[Editor’s response: No, it isn’t. Maybe you should read the article again, if the purpose wasn’t obvious to you.]
Quite frankly, I’m sure no one really cares what your opinion is.
[Editor’s response: I’m not sure you speak for all the readers of my blog. If that’s true, no one is reading this and commenting, right?]
Do your homework if you want to be taken seriously. You’re a shame to your field.
[Editor’s response: I did my homework and cited it in article.]
You’re paranoid that everyone who credits Dr. Wallace or Youngevity is a distributor. And? What if they are? What is your point? Your assumptions is plain stupid with no substance whatsoever.
[Editor’s response: Can you find anyone who credits Wallace or Youngevity that ISN’T a distributor or paid by the company? Surely, USA Today, CNN, Washington Post, or something like that credits them, right? Nope.]
This has to be the worse blog I’ve ever commented on.
[Editor’s response: You haven’t provided any reason for this being a bad blog other than your own deficiencies of not bothering to read, not taking the time cite, etc.]
I really don’t believe anyone is convincing you to use Youngevity products.
[Editor’s response: That is probably the only correct statement you’ve made in your comment.]
In your arrogance you lost track that this isn’t about you.
[Editor’s response: I never said it is about me. My article is about Youngevity. You are the one trying to attack my credibility and making it about me.]
You’re not doing anyone a favor. Do what you want. No one is going to quit supplementing because you say so. You’re wasting your time buddy But, I’ll leave you with this tidbit..
[Editor’s response: They shouldn’t quit supplementing because I say so. They should quit because scientists who do the research have concluded it time and time again to the point when they are flabbergasted to saying “Enough is Enough!”. So don’t listen to me, listen to those scientists who have piled through dozens, maybe hundreds, of unrelated supplement studies.]
Take a 300 mg. capsule of magnesium .. it’ll help calm you down. It works wonders! Have a pleasant day Lazy Guy. Over and out! Not returning. Unbeneficial and waste of time. I’m off to watch YouTube and more of Dr. Joel Wallace. Dr. Peter Glidden, Dr. Berg, Dr. Axe, Pharmacist Ben Fuchs .. and the list goes on …
Laurenia said: “Besides, we have no proof that Big Pharma isn’t paying you.”
There’s also no proof that Big Pharma is paying him (just like there’s no proof that you’re not a member of Al Qaeda), but that doesn’t stop you from making moronic accusations anyway. Can your mind really be so dysfunctional as to believe that the world really works like that – i.e., that “Big Pharma” pays finance bloggers to say disparaging things about Youngevity – or is that just the best story you can come up with to fool the people who you’re trying to rope into your dumb F-ing scam? Either way, you’re an embarrassment to the human race.
Laurenia said: “Your not an M.D., nor are you licensed to even comment.”
(1) Learn how to spell “you’re”; (2) no MD license is required to comment here, obviously; (3) your idiocy is painful to witness.
Laurenia said: “For myself, I’m giving my opinion on what I do know, whether I’m credible or not is irrelevant. This is not my show.”
Good that you don’t mind the irrelevance because you couldn’t possibly less credible, nor your opinion less worthless.
Laurenia said: “Like I explained to you before, I don’t have time to cite. That’s your job, not mine.”
Of course you do! Your time is about as close to valueless as it could possibly be. Your commission for trying to hawk Youngevity’s crap supplements/pyramid scheme can’t be more than pennies an hour, if that. You spew a few baseless ridiculously slanted opinions, back it up with nothing, get huffy, and then call it a day. You’re like the human version of a puss-filled abscess.
Laurenia said: “You’re paranoid that everyone who credits Dr. Wallace or Youngevity is a distributor. And? What if they are? What is your point?”
Well if they are distributors then he’s not paranoid – isn’t that the point? I’ll add a second point that anyone who “credits” that ridiculous charlatan Wallace – for anything — is also a bloody fool.
Laurenia said: “No one is going to quit supplementing because you say so. You’re wasting your time buddy.”
Don’t be so sure. This site must be bad for your illicit business operation or you wouldn’t be stomping around so indignantly. Might not be enough to get through to the handful of “true believers” in this scam, but they are as rare as unicorns. The more likely scenario is that the people you try to con end up visiting this site, which ends up confirming their worst suspicions and leads them to slam the door in your face.
Laurenia said: “Over and out! Not returning. Unbeneficial and waste of time. I’m off to watch YouTube and more of Dr. Joel Wallace. Dr. Peter Glidden…”
Thank you! Your presence will not be missed. You may now go back to masturbating (mentally or otherwise) to your favorite Youngevity quack videos on YouTube. How pathetic.
BTW, you posted your reply on the wrong thread. Not at all surprising that a Youngevity distributor can’t even figure out something so basic. Explains why you carry water for the devil for pennies an hour.
Heather Burrows says
Exactly! I am a pharmacy technician so it’s almost embarrassing to say that Pharmaceuticals or the distribution of pharmaceuticals pay my bills. I’m not a representative of youngevity nor would I ever be simply because what youngevity has done for me and my recovery from a pharmaceutical brain injury that happened in a 3-month very short time. (I want people to believe my testimony and how great it has been for me. If I were being paid people would be less likely to believe me.) 3 years later I’m still attempting to recover from it. youngevity has given me hope that maybe I will be normal again. I cannot function without youngevity. if I go more than two days without taking my vitamin pack it in the morning, I find myself crying about everything and unable to think clearly. The pharmaceutical Topiramate, the generic for Topamax cause me to have every single one of the side effects except for two. I was taking just 50 mg twice a day for three months. It nearly killed me. I still suffer with a lot of the issues described as a side effect even 3 years after discontinuing it.
It’s funny how the guy who wrote this article has never taken it. Ask people who won’t take anything else and don’t get a dime for it. The people who are not paid by the company and who actually take it are the people that should be. I do not listen the people who are paid to give their opinion. This is exactly why I don’t believe all the “climate change” people. They are paid to cause panic. All the scientists who say the climate change nonsense. are not being paid for that opinion. That’s making their opinion far more valuable then those who are paid to give it and I feel that expertise. Money makes people lie.
Lazy Man says
Since we can’t tell any of the following things:
1. If you are a Youngevity distributor
2. If you ever had a brain injury
3. If you have some kind of placebo effect
it is kind of silly to claim that you don’t want to be distributor so that people will believe you. If you want to be believable, upload your doctor’s medical diagnosis and certification that Youngevity has been a core part of his treatment plan. Then we can at least validate what is going on.
I don’t know what to tell you about climate change. We’ve got something like 100+ countries that agree about it and objective measurements are universally agreed upon. The people who deny climate change are the largest polluters because that’s an unfortunate result of how they make money.
Heather Burrows said: “I do not listen the people who are paid to give their opinion. This is exactly why I don’t believe all the “climate change” people. They are paid to cause panic. All the scientists who say the climate change nonsense. are not being paid for that opinion. That’s making their opinion far more valuable then those who are paid to give it and I feel that expertise. Money makes people lie.”
I’m reluctant to further derail the discussion with a tangent about climate change but that erroneous statement should not go uncorrected. It’s one thing to express the opinion that you don’t believe in climate change, but it is an egregious misstatement of fact to say that climate change deniers don’t get paid. The money trail linking the fossil fuel industry (and the brothers Koch) to climate change deniers has been amply documented and is an incontrovertible fact. Without that money polluting the well, climate change denial wouldn’t exist, or would be relegated to the far fringes where flat-Earthers dwell.
Heather Burrows said: “…my recovery from a pharmaceutical brain injury…(I want people to believe my testimony and how great it has been for me. If I were being paid people would be less likely to believe me.)…youngevity has given me hope that maybe I will be normal again. I cannot function without youngevity…my vitamin pack…”
I won’t dispute the claim that you suffered brain injury; it’s the part about recovering (and attributing it to Youngevity vitamin packs) that’s hard to swallow.
My red flag is that he is a veterinarian. My dog got killed by a veterinarian, he prescribed a poisonous drug :Apoquel Oclacitinib, this drug causes new subcutaneous and cutaneous tumors, stomach enlargement, death, look it up on drugs.com , veterinarians are greedy and want to make money using unethical methods. I would not trust this man.
The only legitimate concern with Wallach being a veterinarian is that he isn’t educated or qualified in the practice of medicine in humans. There’s no basis for issuing a blanket condemnation of all veterinarians. Homeopathy on the other hand (Wallach’s other ‘certification’) is a different story – a quack-fest! Wallach is bottom feeder to be sure.
Any veterinarian or MD will kill you if you give them half the chance…you are responsible to be aware of what is going into your body as well as your pets. I was in the lab and used to draw people’s blood and was amazed that doctors would want peoples cholesterol under 100 …what?????? Your brain is almost all cholesterol…so where to you think Alzheimer disease comes from…yep you guess it….limiting the cholesterol in your brain. I worked in a hospital for alot of years….as well as with doctors…I saw Big Pharma in action many many times…it’s a game and you are the guinea pig. You have to be pro-active in your life as well as your pets!
Lazy Man says
My aunt is a veterinarian and I’m very sure she won’t kill you or anyone else. I know a couple of MDs and I don’t think they are the type to murder people either.
Sounds like you solved Alzheimers by encouraging everyone to get the highest cholesterol possible. I sure wouldn’t want to be the guinea pig in your experiment.
How many years of medical school did you go to? Which school was it? What degree did you get, again? Can we please see your transcripts?
I certainly enjoyed the read, thank you for your information
Actually there is proof for liquid forms absorbing more, if there wasn’t we wouldn’t have needed a colloidal form of vitamins in the first place and even places like big pharma suggest those
Lazy Man says
Where is that proof again? Please send a link to your source Zachary.
Youngevity liquid calcium is 98% available to the body… people go to Walgreen everyday and buy a 1000mg Caltrate and will be lucky to get 2% of that….your body can’t use it…and then they wonder why they still have brittle bones, etc. Here’s a tip…if you get twitches in your eye lids, charly horse in your calf in the middle of the night…or those dreaded kidney stones…your body is telling you…your calcium is low. You’re right Zachary…. as Dr. Wallach states in his scientific finding…..
Lazy Man says
Actually, there’s a section of my article that covers this. It’s called, “Absorption of Youngevity.”
It’s probably best that you don’t quote Wallach’s information here, because he seems to claim things that are simply not true.
Are you going to quote legitimate scientific studies in peer reviewed journals or are you going to quote the salesman as gospel?
[Editor’s Note: I’m responding to this comment in-line.]
I’m a 28 year old Apple Software Technician and independent stock broker who first started buying Youngevity products from my friend directly who was ordering mass amounts.
[Editor’s Response: I’m a 41 year old software engineer who Facebook flew across the country to interview to head up their mobile division in 2006. Is that of value here? Not sure why you’d want to be an independent stock broker in an era of free trades. Finally, your friend “ordering mass amounts” might point to what is called “inventory loading” in pyramid schemes.]
It started with just Tangy Tangerine and Minerals here and there. He eventually explained I could get it cheaper directly by ordering it and getting it shipped for free with auto ship, I then began ordering the Healthy Body Start Pack (Tangy, Calcium, EFAs) which hits 100QV (minimum required to get residuals from other customers).
[Editor’s Response: Well if you are paying a 300% premium or more, it’s easy for a company to offer a cheap discount and free shipping. It doesn’t take an “independent stock broker” to tell you that getting a free commissions on a share of $400 Apple stock isn’t a good deal. Apple stock trades at around $142 now.]
He was doing this full time and eventually started putting new sign ups and customers under me essentially handing me residual income.
[Editor’s Response: This sounds illegal to me. The FTC seems to say clearly that you have to make sales yourself. Earning a residual income from recruiting is one of the FTC’s signs of a pyramid scheme (https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/multilevel-marketing). Having someone above you game the recruiting looks much, much worse in my opinion.]
Eventually I had enough people under me that my monthly commission cheques from Youngevity exceeded the amount I was spending on supplements. Thats when it really started, my natural faith in the product based on results, mixed with his generosity and the way the compensation plan works, now has me for life because its now completely self sustaining.
[Editor’s Response: So it sounds to me that you got enough fraudulent money (using the FTC’s analysis) that it impaired your ability to have an unbiased view of the products. Nothing in MLM is “self sustaining.” Ten years ago people in MonaVie said the same thing. Today their MonaVie business is just about zero. People in Vemma said similar things and their business is just about zero too. It doesn’t seem that you are actively selling the product as required by the FTC to be legitimate.]
This is mainly to give insight to people, that this can be for everyone.
[Editor’s Response: The experience you explained was a person above you giving you “new sign-ups and customers.” By every explanation I’ve ever seen of a pyramid scheme, not “everyone” can receive new sign-ups (plural) and customers (in addition to sign-ups). The world runs out of people. Pragmatically, the number of people to “sign-up” is already maxed out because many people aren’t interested in selling overpriced products.]
Sure the products may be more expensive than others, but the quality is there.
[Editor’s Response: Please scientifically show that the quality is better. I recommend using industry standards such as USP as I wrote about in the article.]
Even though I now don’t pay for then, going in, I was fully willing and ready to pay full cost, having faith it would benefit me long term.
[Editor’s Response: Faith is great, but it isn’t a definition of quality. Science seems to indicate that your “faith” in supplements is misplaced. You’d have much more difficult time showing that people should spend more without the FDA or similar unbiased scientific body behind it.]
I now don’t pay for supplements at all, and if I choose can invest time into getting more customers. My friend isn’t just handing me customers anymore, because his goal was to just give me something self sustaining, but he’s now created a very large network using this model of rewarding faithful distributors this way.
[Editor’s Response: Good job not paying for supplements… because You should Stop Wasting Money on Vitamins and Mineral Supplements. Sorry to hit you with science journals. It seems to me like you are saying that you aren’t paying for your pet rock anymore. That’s cool for you, but why should we care?]
Comparing Youngevity and its products to buying cheaper supplements on Amazon is simply not something you can do..
[Editor’s Response: Why not? Is it because supplements on Amazon don’t pay you a residual income?]
Youngevity has quality…the proof is in the pudding…. the Editor needs to eat the pudding to make a valid arguement!
Lazy Man says
Actually, the nutritional label gives all the information we need. If I told you the proof is in Wonder Bread and you need to eat it to understand, you could easily say, “But we know what’s in Wonder Bread and it simply doesn’t make sense that it would do anything.” It’s the same thing here.
We don’t ask someone to jump off the bridge to prove that gravity exists. If you want to make a valid argument, show me the published, peer-reviewed studies on Youngevity. Even the Clemson debacle got exposed making a laughing stock of the company.
With any other “miracle vitamin” or miracle this or miracle that scam out there, you will always find people jumping in to give their testimonial about how they tried it and it didn’t work and it’s a big scam.
But time and time again, all I see is Youngevity users defending the products, and there is ALMOST zero testimonials of EX-users saying it’s “bunk.”
If you were are right as you firmly believe you are, there would be a bunch of people backing up your claims with anecdotal evidence.
Where are they?
Lazy Man says
It’s called MLM and the placebo effect. There are actually a lot of people in this thread of comments (and other MLM products) who say that the products are bunk and don’t work. However, their voices are drowned out by the people paid to promote that it does work.
You can see what happened when Vemma juice went off MLM after being sued by the FTC. All the people paid to promote that it worked disappeared and the company went out of business. They didn’t even buy the product any more.
Keep in mind that there’s no expectation that it *should* work. How many articles do you see claiming that Centrum doesn’t work? There are probably a couple out there, but I don’t see much of it. It’s like being surprised that a penguin can’t juggle. Most people are a little too busy in their daily lives to waste their time writing about such common sense.
There are a few of us out there, notably Truth in Advertising who have noted thousands of illegal testimonials on MLM products – https://www.truthinadvertising.org/dsa-ignoring-illegal-health-claims/. Please note that Youngevity is on that list.
I read your response, and clicked on your link. I did not find Youngevity anywhere on the page. So after studying it thoroughly, I decided that maybe you meant to send THIS link: http://www.truthinadvertising.org/mlm-health-claims-database which does appear on the page of the link you sent.
So, exploring further, I found that link did indeed have a very comprehensive list of products. I was very shocked at some of the companies on that list. The list includes well known brands such as, Herbalife, Amway, and Young Living. There are people in my church who promote Young Living and totally believe in it.
Please note that Youngevity is NOT on that list.
Lazy Man says
Youngevity was in the image on the page that I linked to. I wanted to provide the page for more context about the scams of these MLM companies.
Some of the brands that you mentioned (Amway and Herbalife) have settled lawsuits for hundreds of millions of dollars rather than go to trial and take (very likely) chance that they are illegal pyramid schemes. It’s hard to find other companies that are willing to volunteer to pay that kind of money. I can’t think of another one off the top of my head.
To understand why the people who promote Young Living (or any MLM product) total believe in it, you have to have a little background in human psychology. I’ve outlined it here and doctors have endorsed: https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/no-your-mlm-health-product-does-not-work/.
Here are the Truth in Advertising articles you should read about Youngevity:
You know what really bothers me… I’m poor and spend the last of my money on my dogs because I love them. I wish there was a clear choice of a good product that would truly help my kids be more healthy through the short life they have without worrying that I may be harming them by trying to help them. I bought the youngevity pet vitamins and minerals for them with my last 120.00 it’s a shame we all live in a world driven by money and greed. :(
Richard James says
There certainly is some profit in the business – several of the Board Directors get paid in the mid to high six figures
Richard James: “There certainly is some profit in the business – several of the Board Directors get paid in the mid to high six figures.”
The Wallach’s aren’t just BOD members; they are the founders and owners of the company. Of course they’re going to get paid richly. That’s the scam’s raison d’etre. The Wallach’s reaping absurd sums of money is also the very reason why 90%+ of distributors walk away with nothing. No one ever said that fraud/deception doesn’t pay well.
Kevin Surbaugh says
[Editor’s note: I’m responding in-line to this comment]
First, let’s clear this up.
[Editor’s response: After 1300+ comments I’m not sure you can “clear this up”, but let’s go! :-)]
Youngevity distributors are some of the best paid in all of MLM.
[Editor’s response: Research shows that more than 99% of MLM “distributors” LOSE money. A 12 year old is literally better paid as a baby sitter than those who waste their time in MLM]
They immediately get other new distributors placed under them. Meaning they get commissions right of, without having signed anyone up. That in turns can translate into them getting their orders for free, as they can receive a commission big enough to cover what they pay.
[Editor’s response: That is one of the most clear definitions of a pyramid scheme that I’ve ever seen. That’s not showing how product is sold.]
Second, the Tangy Tangerine is a crystal powder product that you mix your water. By being a powder it has maximum absorption by your body. The pills, often times, don’t even fully desolve in your body. What good is it, if the bill just passes straight through you? Tangy Tangerine is a much superior product.
[Editor’s response: If this is your concern, you could crush a pill into a powder. I think science shows that stomach acids will do the job.]
How many Yougevity users have be bombarded with robo calls as I have?
“This is a call like no other . . . would you like to make 5 figures a week?
Informative take on the company from a former distributor. The details are pretty horrific.
Interesting. A 2016 cease and desist order against Youngevity from the Securities and Insurance Office of the Montana State Auditor. The order includes multiple fines and bars the company from doing business and trading stock in Montana.
Lazy Man says
There was a great piece on HBO about Alex Jones and how he sells supplements last night. It’s good viewing for anyone who is interested in Youngevity as Jones has come up in the thread before:
I was buying a 3.00 can of energy drink nightly just to stay awake during my night shift. I buy Tangy Tangerine just for these benefits alone at nearly the same cost and it’s more effective. Now, if there really are health benefits to taking this drink, then so be it, that’s an added bonus imo
Lazy Man says
How much caffeine is in Tangy Tangerine? It’s been a long time since I looked at it. If it doesn’t have caffeine then it’s comparing apples and transmissions.
Also, why would pay $3 for a can of energy drink? I’ve got you covered – https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/save-money-on-energy-drinks-and-caffeine/
You should look at this too: https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/price-caffeine/
Mark Babineau says
Homeostasis is the condition of all the bodies systems in balance. To say that the factory farms in this country don’t had that bad of a played out mineral depleted soil is minimizing a condition that over time can degrade trace mineral needs and over time can manifest in the body as negative health effects. It’s called cause and affect. The problem is, there is an absence of interest in this field of research there simply is no money available for this cause and the past studies done are woefully lacking in their scope. When British sailors were getting scurvy back in the 1700’s they had no idea the root cause was a vitamin C deficiency. That’s only one case take the case for rickets a mineral deficiency or gout an iodine deficiency. All proven documented scientific fact. I think it is unwise to dismiss mineral deficiencies off hand. I think we could all agree that more in depth independent controlled studies should be done, there is no doubt about that, knowledge is power you can never have too much of vetted factual statistical data that has true integrity.
Lazy Man says
Scientists are a little more advanced than they were in the 1700’s when we figured out the vitamin C deficiency. They didn’t need telephones, crazy flying machines, or vacuum tubes to figure that out. You are literally comparing knowledge of a time when horse were the transportation to smart phones calling autonomous driving robot vehicles (technology that works, even if it isn’t in our daily life).
They didn’t know what DNA was back in the years that you talk about and we have sequenced now and are able to make CRISPR babies.
In other words, all mineral deficiency diseases like scurvy and rickets have been found long ago and they are very rare today. In cases where they show up, it is due to human problems, not lack of scientific knowledge.
Mary Jo Morra says
The only reason I’m answering is because you are so full of misguided misinformation and it makes me mad listening to people like you… to begin with big Pharma, doctors and scientists are bought and paid for it…so of course they are going to support them they get their paychecks from them and that’s all they really care about.. this is a proven fact which you obviously don’t know about, most people.don t.. there has been plenty of research data on natural remedies for longer than big Pharma has been around and people have been helped and cured… this has been going on for thousands of years… big Pharma has been trying to discredit natural remedies for years for the sole reason that they want to make money on their toxic chemicals that about kill a person it’s amazing anybody lives and their quality of life is usually very poor and their life span is not extended much and their suffering the whole time… it’s amazing the human body can survive their treatments but it is an amazing Creation… the cells in the body are made up of vitamins minerals amino acids Etc… when you get sick your body is lacking these materials.. and it will heal itself when they are replenished… your body is not locking chemotherapy because it is not in its program or any other other toxic life-threatening methods… there is a method called Iridology, created by Dr. Bernard Jenson. you can see everything that’s wrong with the body in the eyes and at what stage of deterioration that particular area is at… it’s like the hands of a clock between 11 and 1 oclock is the brain area… one section is your motor skills area, another is your balance area. etc… the rest of the clock shows the rest of the parts of the body… if you look at your eye you will see vertical dark areas… they start off gray but as you get sicker they turn darker even to black.. so you can start healing when they’re Gray… as you heal there will be white Criss-Cross lines in that dark area which means that area is actually healing and when it is done healing it will turn back to your original eye color… no ifs ands or maybes that you are healed..You Are Healed… usually by the time the doctors get you you are in the dark and very sick stage and yes it’s harder to heal at that time… I would rather work with the gray stage… as anyone with a brain would… so you can spend thousands of dollars trying to figure out what’s wrong using the doctor’s methods or you can ask your body and it will tell you the absolute truth… and ALOT quicker… big Pharma doesn’t want you to know this of course because they want all the money..that’s all they care about they want to keep you sick so they can keep having you spend money on their toxic methods.. how the body survives their methods is truly a miracle but it is an Amazing Creation… but you have to heal it the way it needs and wants… and that is with natural methods… another precise method of natural healing is muscle testing… your body will tell you exactly which product it wants, and I guarantee you that it is not with toxic chemicals, there is no way your body is lacking chemotherapy to heal itself because it doesn’t work right… and it will not pick the cheap poor quality products… it’ll tell you the correct dosage and how long to take that particular dosage and when that needs to be lowered it will tell you that too.. it will tell you all you need to know… or you could spend thousands of dollars for the doctors trying to figure out what they think is wrong and usually isn’t right… while they torture and maim your poor body and make it harder to heal ..if at all possible after they get done with you… you have to build up your immune system to heal… they destroy your immune system… How smart is that??? but you all believe that they are Gods because they told you they were.. they program you well…because most people are too lazy to research and find out the truth… and they want people to tell them what to do so that they don’t have to think or put energy into researching …people like you who don’t know anything about what your talking about because you listen to Big Pharma’s lies whose only object is to take your money for their foul products… and to get rid of the truth Sayers the ones with the real knowledge they discredit with their lies so that you will not listen to them and use their methods that actually work .. you are only supposed to follow their methods …and then you actually have the audacity to think that you have the knowledge to write about your stupidity on these subjects… you and big Pharma should be sued… and all the doctors and scientists who know nothing of natural healing because they have no data and if they have data they will lie about it anyway just like they do with their products… they actually or used to, tell you that their products have 15 bad side effects, but oh that’s okay because they get rid of the one problem that they are dealing with which is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard… that is totally impossible!!! It doesn’t even make any sense… their drug or whatever may kill off some disease or make it look like it’s gone, but it usually comes back… but in the meantime it will go to another spot in your body and manifest another disease there… because when you’re sick your whole body is sick… it’s all clogged up and not functioning properly.. that is why you heal the whole body you look in the eyes you see what area is disintegrating, and you heal all of those areas also and then the disease will actually be healed… yes you have to take supplements and good nutritional food for the rest of your life because that’s what it needs… you also have to heal on an emotional physical and spiritual level because all those areas need to be healed also… doctors don’t do this at all… how anybody with a brain could actually do what they say to do is so illogical also… and if you had researched Dr Joel Wallach you would know that when he was small boy he had Tourette’s syndrome.. all the doctors came up with the stupidest reasons and none of them worked.. so as a small boy of 11 maybe he went to the library and researched and found that it was a Calcium deficiency, of course it’s not just one thing… but that’s all the information that was available which was amazing they even printed that..he was fortunate enough to grow up on a farm, as he was feeding the chickens their food pellets, there is a tag on the bag that shows all the vitamins and minerals Etc that are in those pellets and one of them was calcium so he started eating the pellets and his Tourette Syndrome disappeared in 3 days…. so that was the beginning of his researching… he was a genius even back then… he’s 76 now and has never been sick… there were no naturopathic schools back then… so he went into all the animal husbandry projects and Veterinary courses they had back then for farm animals.. he went to college and expanded his field… He went to work in zoos he worked with Marlin Perkins for years.. the zoo animals got sicker a lot back then… he discovered what made them sick and it was all nutritional insufficiencies… he got them on good diets and they were healthy… since animals didn’t have insurance back then they wanted the method that would keep them healthy and this was it and they still follow it to this day… animals in captivity are the unhappiest and unhealthiest animals… I know I worked at a big Zoo… their confined in way too small cages and they are all psychotic, traumatized by strange humans that gawk and stare and say crazy things to them, how would you feel to never be able to run free outside again to breathe fresh air to feel the sun on your body Etc… dr. Joel Wallach wanted to help humans so he began his research on that and became a naturopathic doctor… to heal the people the way they REALLY need… I realize no one is always completely correct but you want to go with the proven facts and he has plenty of research on both animals and humans… so do quite a few natural Healers…. don’t forget to use full body massage to clear out all the clogged energy that is hindering healing the body, PT therapist only work on one small area of the body which doesn’t work well … a full body massage… you need a good organic nutritional diet.. you need to do allergy test on Foods that are making you sick, like wheat and oatmeal… And be on a gluten-free diet etc.. 80 to 90% of your the immune system is in your digestive tract so it has to be working properly. gluten tears up the lining of the digestion track so you can’t absorb anything and you have a malabsorption problem which is a big factor in being sick… these are all proven and researched facts… no doctor or scientist or American Cancer Society or all the other organizations you name will EVER tell you this because they have no research on it and they don’t know how to do the research tests correctly but the main reason is Big Pharma does not want you to know how to actually and really heal yourself.. their main objective is to make money on their horribly toxic drugs as long as they can… healing the body is a complex matter… so ALL your information that you have printed here is absolutely and totally false and there’s NOTHING you can say that will ever change that… so Wake up everybody, time is short….
Lazy Man says
Mary Jo Morra,
That’s quite a long comment. I got through the first quarter of it or so and you didn’t mention Youngevity at all. You know that the supplement industry is paid for just like all the claims you made about doctors. You know that they spend big money lobbying Congress so that they don’t have to show their products are effective with medical conditions, right?
Here’s the NY Times on the topic: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/06/opinion/the-politics-of-fraudulent-dietary-supplements.html
Here’s Time on the topic: http://time.com/3741142/gnc-vitamin-shoppe-supplements/
Here’s The Atlantic: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/food-as-medicine/521955/
So you lost a ton credibility being off-topic and pointing the finger at other unrelated entities instead of examining the topic or even the supplement industry itself. It would probably blow your mind to learn that the Centrum vitamin supplement is owned by “Big Pharma’s” Pfizer.