It is a seemingly never-ending battle to help prevent consumers from being scammed by MLM schemes. Today we look to examine another one of them: Youngevity.
I had a reader ask me about Youngevity the other day. We’ll call him Spike. He wrote:
“Have you done any research on the Youngevity products & Dr. Joel Wallach? I have been taking their Tangy Tangerine product as well as the EFA’s & Osteo FX over the last 3 months. I read your article on Lifevantage and was very impressed by the depth of your study. Just wanted to see if you have uncovered anything with Youngevity.”
I had never heard of Youngevity. However, having looked into other MLM scams, I know one of the first places to look at is the cost of the product. Why? Because MLMs often require their distributors buy product to participate in the opportunity. The artificially expensive product pays the company hefty margins, and distributors often pay the surcharge month after month as a fee for what they feel will make them money.
When I looked into the prices of Youngevity’s products, it had all the tell-tale signs of an MLM scam.
The Value of Tangy Tangerine
The first product that Spike mentioned was Tangy Tangerine, a 32 ounce drink that is highly packed with vitamins and minerals. At a cost of around $40 for a 30 day supply it is upwards of $1.25 per serving. I did a quick search on Amazon and found Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men Multivitamins (180-pack) , which was similarly highly packed with vitamins and minerals. I didn’t compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close, more in some areas, less in others. The price on Amazon for Opti-Men is 10 cents a pill and 3 pills are in a serving, for a total of 30 cents a serving. So instead of paying $40 a month for Tangy Tangerine, you could be paying about $9-10 a month. Some of the reviews said Opti-Men was really powerful and there’s really no need to take three capsules, so you might find that you can save even more money by taking just one or two. (Side Note: The Opti-Men was the first thing I saw, I bet there’s an equivalent women’s version that is similar.)
Price per serving: $0.30 vs $1.25 in favor of Opti-Men. That’s a savings of a little more than 75%.
With Tangy Tangerine, another concern I have is with the marketing of this product. On the bottle it says “with 115 vegetables and fruits.” There are no fruit and vegetables in 500mg of powder and certainly not 115. Anyone buying into this claim should take a bottle to their doctor or medical professional (who isn’t affiliated with the MLM) and ask them if you can stop eating vegetables because you are getting 115 from Tangy Tangerine. I image they’ll find that humorous.
The Value of EPA Plus
Next up is EPA Plus. This supplement is like fish oil, but it is a blend of healthy oils like flaxseed. On the web I found it available for around $30 for 90 capsules, which is equivalent to 90 servings. That’s 30 cents a serving. So what’s the Amazon near equivalent? It’s Omega 3-6-9 Gold. It has the mix of different sources of good fats as well. It is $13 for 180 capsules which turns out to be 7 cents a serving… and at 1200mg you are getting more product. Update: 12/30/2013: Looks like that product is currently unavailable from Amazon. However, I spent another 30 seconds coming up with a good alternative from Amazon:
NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9 1000mg. It is around $15 for 250 capsules… 6 cents per capsule. If you use Amazon’s Subscribe and Save, you can knock that down another 20% for a price of around $12.50.
Price per serving: $0.06 vs $0.30 in favor of NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9. That’s 1/5th the price or 80% off of the Youngevity price… and it gets even cheaper with Subscribe and Save.
The Value of Osteo Plus
At this point, I got a little tired of searching, so I literally took the first thing that I found on Amazon and it seemed close to the Osteo Plus blend. Specifically, I am referring to: Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. I had to look at another website to get the nutritional information on this product as it wasn’t nicely available on Amazon. The nutritional information shows a more diverse blend than Youngevity’s Osteo Plus, but with lower amounts of calcium and vitamin D. These are the big things you’d be looking for in a osteo complex, so it looks like a bad fit. However, keep in mind that the Opti-Men product above had additional calcium and vitamin D, plus there’s the nutrients that you get from your regular diet. That should make up any difference. OsteoPrime Plus is priced at $17 for 120 capsules. However with 4 capsules per serving that is a 30-day supply on Amazon. The price for Youngevity’s Osteo Plus online that I saw was $41 also for a 32-day supply.
Price per serving: $0.57 vs. $1.28 in favor of Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. This time the savings are closer to 55%.
I should mention that these don’t seem to be random products that Spike picked out. They all seem to be part of what is calls the Youngevity Healthy Start package. This $112 product has the 30-day supply of all three Youngevity products. The price of this is combination on this site and this site is $112 (as of 4/27/2012). The later makes it seem like it a value as it normally costs $159.00. At $112, that’s $3.73 a day. The price of the three items that I listed above: 94 cents a day. That’s a savings of between 67-75%… or between $689.85 and $1018.35 a year.
The typical case for MLM is that the quality of the MLM product is better than any you compare it to. Clearly if both products were identical Honda Accords you wouldn’t pay more. This puts the pressure on the MLM to prove that its product is significantly better. This is where they hire a couple of medical professionals as scientific experts, but the reality is that they are paid spokesmen. What you really need to know when it comes to vitamins is that there’s a non-profit organization that you can trust: the United States Pharmacopeia. You’ll find these products have USP Verified Dietary Supplement Mark on them. I’ve talked to a lot of pharmacists and they all say that this is the place to start and end your search for supplement quality… however many admitted to me that standards are generally so good they don’t look for it themselves and just buy the cheapest generic brand.
Absorption of Youngevity and other Vitamins
Some commenters have tried to ignore this point about the USP. When they do, they often say that cheap vitamins aren’t absorbed well or that liquid absorbs better. It’s worth noting that there are no studies on Youngevity’s products absorption. If Youngevity’s products do absorb better than its competitors and this is indeed an important factor, why is there zero analysis on it? Another thing to keep in mind is that when researchers and scientists are researching vitamins, they often don’t choose liquid sources or even state the brand of vitamins at all. Why would scientists/researchers time and again choose to go through all the trouble of conducting studies with products that are known to be poor? The answer is that they aren’t using poor products.
Consumer Reports addresses the absorption of liquid vs. solid vitamins:
“Q. My wife pays a premium for liquid vitamin and mineral supplements, which are supposedly better absorbed by the body. Are they worth the cost? —D.P., Sacramento, Calif.
A. Probably not, unless your wife has trouble swallowing solid supplements. In theory, liquid supplements should be better absorbed by the stomach since they’re already dissolved. But there has been little research to substantiate that idea. And at least some evidence has shown no meaningful difference.”
I’d add that even if she has trouble swallowing solid supplements, there’s amazing technology called pill crushing that has existed for years which solves this.
When it comes to Youngevity it is worth keeping in mind the “Can I Pay Less for Something of Similar Value?” game.
However, perhaps the biggest thing to consider is that recent research is showing that supplements may do more harm than good.
It simply doesn’t make any sense to spend more money on something that doesn’t seem to work in the first place.
Update (12/16/2013): The well-respected medical journal Annals of Internal Medicine says, “Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements”.
This CNN article covered the situation well:
“The (vitamin and supplement) industry is based on anecdote, people saying ‘I take this, and it makes me feel better,’ said Dr. Edgar Miller, professor of medicine and epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and co-author of the editorial.’ It’s perpetuated. But when you put it to the test, there’s no evidence of benefit in the long term. It can’t prevent mortality, stroke or heart attack’.”
Many of the smartest people in the world have done the research on hundreds and thousands of people and haven’t anything that helps, and even found that it could be dangerous.
“Doctor” Joel Wallach
It’s worth noting that Youngevity is associated with “Doctor” Joel Wallach. Who is he? According to Skepdic he is a veterinarian and a naturopath.
The American Cancer Society sums up what you need to know about Naturopathy: “Available scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease, since virtually no studies on naturopathy as a whole have been published.”
[Update: When I wrote the article it seemed like a safe bet that most people would consider one of the largest non-profits/charity with the goal of rid the world of cancer reputable, but I’ve received a few comments from people, probably Youngevity distributors, that are to the effect of “This guy believes the American Cancer Society, now I know I can’t trust him.”There are numerous other reputable sources that make the point that naturopathy is quackery, not supported by the proven scientific method. There’s a list of six accredited Naturopathic schools (at the time of this update) and not one of them is associated with any university you have likely heard of. If you are one of the few odd people who are against the American Cancer Society, the point about naturopathy being quackery is well established by other reputalbe institutions.]
I love animals and my aunt is a veterinarian, but I’m not taking advice for my own health from a veterinarian and person who bases their treatments on things that haven’t been scientifically proven. There are hundreds medical doctors in a few square miles from where I live that are hundreds of times more qualified that Wallach. I’d put nutritionists as more qualified when it comes to supplementation as well.
I put “Doctor” in quote when referring to Wallach, because he’s a doctor in the sense that my wife, who has a doctorate in pharmacy (she’s a pharmacist) is a doctor. It’s a fair title for her education, but she doesn’t use the doctor title, nor does anyone else.
That skepdic article on Wallach is very illuminating as it goes into various antics that he’s done over the years. It is clear that he’s misrepresenting himself and making up lies (woman in China who lived to be 250?”)
Does Youngevity Work?
Sorry, but Youngevity joins the long list of MLM products with distributors claiming there are miracle health cures. Why do people make such claims? If you read nothing else today, read this: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not “Work”
About Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research (INR) (Update: 3/01/2013)
A few commenters (mostly distributors) have asked about where I stand on the “Clemson study” on Youngevity products.
Reading the Clemson press release on the relationship with Youngevity is interesting. Here’s a key sentence: “[Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research] goals are to develop greater confidence in product quality, effectiveness and enhance consumer demand for quality nutraceutical products.” (emphasis on “enhance consumer demand” is my own)
You know what another word for “enhancing consumer demand” is? Marketing. In other words Clemson’s goal is to market nutraceutical products, and Youngevity pays them money for that. Ever hear of the rich person whose kid isn’t all that bright, but he got into the top college anyway? The school just happened to get a nice library donated by rich family. The parallels here are obvious.
On February 5th, 2013, I noted that the website for Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research is not functional. Some may argue that I have the wrong URL there, but if I do, Google does too from this screenshot. As of this update, March 1, 2013, the website is still not functional.
In addition to the website being down for nearly a month a Google search for Clemson Institute of Nutraceutical Research gives almost all results for Youngevity. I couldn’t find any other research it has done aside from Youngevity, which is an obvious red flag.
Lastly as Commenter Mark Harris pointed out, Clemson’s INR is not listed on Clemson’s list of over 100 institutes and research centers (as of 12/30/2013).
With the website being down for months, lack of information about other studies, and Clemson’s own failure to recognize it, is that it is hard to take the institute, and hence this research, seriously.
With that said, I feel it is important to address the Clemson “research” itself. With that in mind, let’s take a look at the press release from AL International. One of the first things that pops of the page is that they classify the work as clinical research. However, it is quite clear from the study that this is laboratory research done on test tubes and not clinical research done on humans.
When you mix something up that basic, it’s hard to have any trust in the rest of the “study.”
Much of the press release focused on product safety. While we should all be concerned about safety, vitamins are generally considered safe, so such research is not necessary. If you were to read a review of a $200,000 car saying that it got people from point A to point B without exploding, you would probably be suspicious why they are focusing on something that even cheap cars should be able to do. You don’t buy a Ferrari because it doesn’t spontaneously explode, you buy it because it supposed to deliver an advantage over other cars.
The other part of the article focused on kill cancer cells in a test tube (i.e. cell cultures). On the surface, this seems like compelling information. However, seven years ago we found acai killed cancer cells in a test tube. Not only acai, but according to this USDA article a number of foods kill cancer in test tubes. Heck, even pot slows cancer in tubes.
The important thing to take away here is that lots of things, including vitamins kill cancer in test tubes. Clemson could have saved a lot of time if they weren’t in the business of marketing Youngevity by looking at the existing research. This US News article:
Recent clinical trials, for example, suggest that supplements of single nutrients like vitamins B, C, and E and the mineral selenium do not, as once thought, prevent chronic or age-related diseases including prostate and other kinds of cancer. Some substances, like green tea and ginger, seem to have potential in preventing or helping to treat cancer, but they may also actually interfere with treatment or have other serious side effects. Meantime, countless substances that kill or slow the growth of cancer cells in a test tube have not shown that same success in human beings.
So Youngevity, and it’s various ingredients are added to the list of “countless substances that kill or slow growth of cancer cells in a test tube”, but “have not shown the same success in human beings.
Here’s a thought from a pharmacist that I know and trust: “Bleach kills cancer cells in a test tube… I’m not going to drink it any time soon.” She might have been joking with the last part, but the point is clear: We are not test tubes. Few test tubes read this article… and they aren’t concerned about cancer. Many more humans read this article and I presume they are more interested in the fact that the research does not show success for them.
Even Youngevity’s own brochure on the study comes with a disclaimer: “Clemson University only supports the statistical data and analysis provided here. Clemson University does not support, endorse, or sponsor Youngevity or any of its products. Clemson University and its researchers are not affiliated in any way
with Youngevity Essential Life Sciences.”
As commenter Vogel put it: “There you have it. According to Youngevity, Clemson’s only contribution to this misleading research was the statistical analysis of the data. They did not generate the data itself.”
However, I’d take it a step further and suggest that the brochure itself is a violation of the FDA rules for marketing supplements. The FDA has sent this this warning letter to Nature’s Pearl. It specifically states:
“When scientific publications are used commercially by the seller of a product to promote the product to consumers, such publications may become evidence of the product’s intended use. For example, under 21 CFR 101.93(g)(2)(iv)(C), a citation of a publication or reference in the labeling of a product is considered a claim about disease treatment or prevention if the citation refers to a disease use, and if, in the context of the labeling as a whole, the citation implies treatment or prevention of a disease.”
This brochure with “anti-cancer” prominently in the title and throughout the brochure appears to be evidence of the product’s intended use. The small box at the end of the brochure reading “These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease” should tell you everything you need to know about Youngevity and cancer in clear and in no uncertain terms.
Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.
Bottom Line: Clemson duplicated research that was already well known to be irrelevant in an attempt to provide marketing for Youngevity. They didn’t do any clinical trials (tests in humans) of the product, presumably because they knew in advance it wouldn’t have given the positive result that Youngevity paid for.
When Youngevity puts out a press release saying, “The INR is a national leader in nutritional research and one of the most highly regarded organizations in the field of phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals” it is clear that it is complete bovine excrement.
Clemson Update (March 2017)
Truth in Advertising has archived the Youngevity Pamphlet on the Clemson study and has added it to it’s Youngevity Health Claims Database. They wrote a great Youngevity information article themselves that you should read.
The Daily Beast wrote about Youngevity too. Specifically they noted “questionable Clemson University research”. The article went further to get Clemson to officially comment and Clemson spokesperson Robin Denny told The Daily Beast:
“Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research did some limited preliminary laboratory research for Youngevity several years ago. No clinical trials were performed and Clemson has in no way endorsed any Youngevity product nor authorized the use of Clemson’s name or data in conjunction with any claims of efficacy. The Institute no longer exists.”
I’m not a legal expert, but it sounds to me that the spokesperson is saying that Youngevity shouldn’t have produced the pamphlet.
Youngevity and Depleted Soil
It seems that Youngevity is coaching its distributors to say that today’s soil is depleted of vitamins and minerals in order to create demand for their product. It sounds plausible until you look at little deeper.
Behind the deception there is a nugget of truth, which is what they use to sell you down this erroneous line of thinking. There is some credible information that some soil is deficient of vitamins according to this Scientific American article that cites a few sources. It is far from conclusive. That’s problem #1 with the argument, but for sake of argument we’ll pretend it is conclusive. There are a lot more problems.
A Youngevity distributor pitching this has made the bad inference that because we might be getting less than before we aren’t getting enough. If McDonalds cut the calories of its Double Quarter Pounder you probably wouldn’t be looking to add more to make up for “a deficiency.” It’s quite possible we were getting more than we needed in the past and still get enough (which I will cover in a minute). That’s problem #2.
Next, there’s sufficient research that supplements are a waste of money. That’s analysis of dozens of different studies on hundreds of thousands of people. Conspiracy theorists will say that article is biased or created by a “sickness industry”, but these people have no answer for why the same doctors and scientists put their loved through chemotherapy if vitamins and minerals actually worked. Getting back to the article, the conclusion was:
“The large body of accumulated evidence has important public health and clinical implications. Evidence is sufficient to advise against routine supplementation, and we should translate null and negative findings into action. The message is simple: Most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death, their use is not justified, and they should be avoided. This message is especially true for the general population with no clear evidence of micronutrient deficiencies, who represent most supplement users in the United States and in other countries.… we believe that the case is closed— supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful.“
I’ve added emphasis to three important parts. Supplements are not advised… problem #3. There is no evidence of micronutrient deficiencies in the United States and in other countries. This supports the point I made above in problem #2… we get enough. In fact, the people who are looking into Youngevity are probably those who are health-conscious and thus more likely to have a healthy diet that is devoid of deficiencies.
The final point the article makes is that supplements might even be harmful. That’s problem #4. You not only don’t appear to be helping yourself, but you might even be hurting yourself.
I’ve heard people try to discount that article and the science. They do everything can (like the “sickness industry” I mentioned above). I can’t understand how these people believe in some science and not others. They’ll take the whole thing about depleted soil as a given even though there’s far less analysis of that and throw out all the science about vitamins and minerals not being helpful. It’s as if they want to believe in addition, but not multiplication. It simply doesn’t make any sense to pick and choose arbitrarily.
Now let’s get to problem #5. Back in the Scientific American article they presented a solution to the depleted soil problem. It wasn’t supplements. “… foregoing pesticides and fertilizers in favor of organic growing methods is good for the soil, the produce and its consumers. Those who want to get the most nutritious fruits and vegetables should buy regularly from local organic farmers.”
And then there is problem #6 to this argument. It doesn’t give anyone a reason to buy Youngevity’s overpriced supplements (using the above analysis).
Vogel brings up another 7 more problems with depleted soil in this comment. Specifically:
- the main study cited, “did not look at any measurements of nutrient levels in soil”
- “the authors did not conclude that that the apparent decline in nutrient levels was attributable to soil depletion… that a difference in the strains being cultivated, not soil depletion, was the probable cause of the apparent decline in nutrient levels”
- “Some of the nutrients that apparently declined were only marginally lower, which is not likely to be clinically relevant”
- an apple from the 1950s might have higher levels of alar and DDT and other banned pesticides
- improvements in transportation allow for better access to a variety of fruits than in the 1950s.
- the diet in the 1950s was not very good (“potatoes and iceberg lettuce” cited), there is much more nutritional awareness today.
- “… diseases due to dietary nutritional deficiencies (like scurvy, rickets, beri beri, pellagra, etc.) were not uncommon in the 50s but have now been virtually eradicated in the U.S. due to improvements in standard of living and diet.”
About Youngevity’s Parent Company
One thing that came out of the Clemson research that I initially overlooked (I felt it was more important to focus on the product), is that the company is owned by AL International, a publicly traded company that is a penny stock. On January 25th, when the Clemson “research” press release came out, the stock was trading at 16.5 cents a share (I didn’t realize the stock market took ha’pennies). The total value of the company was 65 million dollars, less than some athletes sign for over 2-3 years. Stock prices vary and after the Clemson marketing, Youngevity got the desired result, a significant bump in stock price as penny stocks can do at times. (Note: they can drop just as quickly and are not very good investments.)
I tried to give a fair review to Youngevity based on its products in general, but as I’ve found in every MLM that I’ve looked at, the organization usually is centered around a few charlatans.
Update: I was pointed towards this great first person account with Youngevity. It is extremely long and detailed, but well worth your time if you are considering buying these products or getting into the business. The author actually became a nutritionist because Youngevity’s Wallach was slandering doctors making them seem untrustworthy all why claiming that their “glacial milk” was the answer. Here are some great quotes:
“So rather than just believing the bunch of facts and figures that were thrown at me by my lecturers, I approached the claims that Wallach had made by asking ‘where is the evidence?’ What I discovered was that Wallach’s claims were not only inaccurate but they were nothing more than very clever lies, designed to lull vulnerable people into a false sense of security in order to relieve them of their money.”
“I had also come across a handful of people from the church who had been approached by AL distributors claiming to cure them of their health conditions, many of them who had received no benefit but were too shy or ashamed to let their story be heard. Funnily enough, it was only those who for whatever reason, believed that they had been cured, whose testimonials were given at meetings and printed on the plethora of AL’s advertising material.”
“… I should simply stand up and ask Wallach why he was misleading people and to question him in front of the audience (of several hundred people) and the cameras. I did of course, which resulted in my swift removal (including being physically dragged out and thrown down a flight of stairs)…”
The story is truly amazing and should make it very clear that it best to avoid Youngevity and its marketing tactics that aren’t properly supported by any real evidence.
Sam says
Actually theres no scientific consensus on the safety of GMO food, consumers dont get it wrong consumers are the ones in power, produces get it wrong because they are the ones losing profits just google whole foods profit or organic food profit or costco organic profit. The quality of the Vitamin sources being sourced from GMO could have conflicted with the results of your tests on multivitamins being unhealthy, thus your results are INVALID until they compare whole food sourced vitamins that are non gmo based and someone on a non gmo diet with the gmo based nutrients ETC. Having research that is too specific doesn’t do any good for anyone and is basically USELESS. Also when A GMO scientist comes out and says the debates not over nad one of the FIRST creators of intergenious modification it really brings your argument of “safe” to shambles http://www.gmwatch.org/index.php/news/archive/2013/15139-developer-of-first-commercialised-gm-food-says-debate-isn-t-over
Deal with a REAL skeptic and get owned. Not every scientist believes the BS that mainstream puts out.
Sources -http://www.i-sis.org.uk/list.php
http://www.gmwatch.org/index.php/news/archive/2013/15139-developer-of-first-commercialised-gm-food-says-debate-isn-t-over
Lazy Man says
This isn’t the place to talk about GMO food as this article is about Youngevity, but scientists very much agree that GMO is safe and they could end world hunger.
I’m sure that not every scientist agrees, but it is a vast, vast majority. When anything reaches that level, you want to listen to them.
Simon says
Are all the folks posting comments in support of Youngevity part of this pyramid scheme, sorry, MLM? There is no proven benefit to these supplements over generic or other brand name products. The revenue model is what inflates the prices. I pity the poor fools who are falling for this scam and paying prime steak money for chopped liver.
Ruth says
you dont seem to have researched Dr Wallach much. the man has written a book thats a national treasure see (http://www.american-longevity.com/who.htm) for his research. He cured cystic fibrosis in monkeys through nutrition when it was believed cf was genetic.
the reason its good hes a vet is because he learnt that the livestock industry ensures optimum health ie no birth defects for animals and other diseases through exact required amounts of essential nutrients in their meal, which is why he packages exact amounts of nutrients required for optimum health and disease prevention in humans, he tried with humans and through research has found it to be the same as for animals. I could go on and on about the merits of Dr Wallach, hes taken medical institutions to court and won, I recommend YOU do your research, plenty on you tube
Lazy Man says
Ruth, I have done the research and you aren’t bringing up anything new that hasn’t been discussed in the previous comments.
Did you read those comments to find out why they are misleading?
Give me an email when you’re sick with some chronic disease, well, other than terminal stupid, which you obviously have an abundance of, and I’ll tell you what you did wrong regarding wellness.
I’m smart enough not spend hundreds of dollars a month on snake oil pyramid schemes.
IV been studying this kinda stuff for about 12 yrs . To fix my tic’s & twitch’s. IV tried almost everything. & a handful of stuff works better than most . IV only had 1 bottle of this brand but it was definitely better than most vitamins IV tried. So maybe try some lazy man . Then tell us . But also study science religion & woo woo all 3 are useful . Like I said I read at least a book tape seminar documentary a day for over 12 yrs & martial arts with the closest person to Yoda IV ever met . & I’m still retarded but at least I’m not full blown retarded only slightly retarded !!! But it is expensive so maybe use smaller amounts to stretch it out . But either way thank u for helping make people more honest.
Not surprising. Youngevity’s products are marketed exclusively to those who are at least semi if not fully retarded. They’re nearly impossible to sell if the prospective victim has an IQ in the 3-digit range.
Hey, Lazy Man. I read your article and the seemingly endless diatribe that followed. I was going to engage you on a couple of points but as I continued on through the endless myopic verbiage I realized it would be a complete waste of time. You obviously indulge in drinking the kool-aid supplied by big pharma and the allopathic medical conglomerate that has our entire medical community held at gun point. Your zealous blind worship of the FDA and “scientists” clearly indicates the veil is not coming down for you anytime soon.
With your wife being a pharmacist I can understand one source of indoctrination that can lead you toward your viewpoints. You are most certainly entitled to your own opinion but you are NOT entitled to your own facts. Dear boy,I’m sorry to be the bearer of sad news but the facts are not something you are currently in possession of.
I believe it would be helpful for you to broaden your horizons a bit. Lazy Man is an apt nickname for you. You don’t seem to form any original thoughts or have a mind open to meaningful discussion. You have already decided what you believe and proceed to “parrot” anyone who you feel supports your stance no matter the reason for their own opinion.
Scientists are just people lazy man. They can be bought and paid for to lobby for pharmaceutical companies, the FDA, politicians or the girl scouts. Many of them will say or write whatever they are paid to. There is obviously a great deal you don’t know about the power and corruption involved in the American “medical” system. Why is it that allopathic medicine has been unable to find a cure for heartburn but the holders of the purse strings have dished out to them over $600,000,000,000 to come up with a cure for cancer? It makes about as much sense as hiring the waterpark janitor to design the plumbing system for a new high rise building. They continue to lock out medical professionals who have the knowledge to approach disease cures effectively. They malign and discredit them with voices backed by billions of dollars. You buy it. Research why they push so hard to keep other disciplines out. That will be a killer article.
Save yourself further future embarrassment and get a proper education on subjects before you run off at the mouth as if you know what you are talking about.
I’m sure you will discount my criticisms as coming from a Youngevity distributor or customer but you would be wrong. I am neither.
I know ignorance when I see it though and you have more than your fair share. You could change all that my exploring the material you are commenting on in an unbiased fashion…good luck with that.
I have no allegiance to the FDA and I’ve never said that pharmaceutical companies, FDA, or politicians can’t be bought. I simply am saying that isn’t a logical reason to support Youngevity, vitamins, or supplements, which the science doesn’t support.
Suppose I came to you and said that you should drink motor oil because it is healthy. You’d (hopefully) respond by saying, “There’s no credible evidence that is true.” When I respond by bring up that the FDA and pharmaceutical companies lie. Do you then say, “You’re right, I’ll take a tall glass of motor oil”?
This is essentially what you did above. You spent all this time talking about something off-topic, FDA and pharmaceutical companies, that you buy into drinking motor oil.
And if you read my comments you’d know that I’ve made the comparison of the FDA to Wall Street. I know there’s all sorts of corruption on Wall Street. However, but at the end of the day banks have helped hundreds of millions of Americans own homes and attain financial prosperity. The same is true of the FDA… if you look on it from an overall perspective having a system is much, much, better than having no system at all.
To take the analogy further, you might as well point out that bad cops exist and suggest that we get rid of all of them too. What do you think that will do for crime rates?
No medical professionals have been locked out of curing diseases. If you really think that’s true, ask them why they don’t move to one of the 250+ countries that the FDA has ZERO jurisdiction over and cure disease there. No one is forcing them to stay in the United States. Go to France and cure cancer there if you can.
You do realize that allopathic medicine (as you call it) has made huge strides against a number of cancers, right? Other approaches have been the equivalent of hiring a dog to design the plumbing on a new high rise building (to use your analogy). (And I love dogs.)
Now can you please get on the Youngevity? Your motor oil is getting cold. We all know that drinking cold motor oil is less effective than warm motor oil, right?
Susan you hit it spot on! That was amazingly well written! On the other hand…Lazy Man disagrees. Not surprising though. But I think I finally figured out what his problem is…HE’S ONE OF THEM! He’s a left wing asshole too thick headed to admit what’s right. He spends all his days on a computer misleading the people inquiring about rightful thinking to think like a moron. You can’t learn rightful thinking from a wrongful thinker. I feel bad for the stupid people out there being brainwashed and tricked by lazy man’s stupidity and awful, childish way of thinking. Lazy man, It’s simple you stupid bastard. Give the body the 90 essential nutrients it NEEDS everyday and let the healing be done by the greatest physician out there…YOUR BODY. And don’t tell me Youngevity’s supplements aren’t food. Because that’s exactly what it is. Food supplies the body with nutrients. Youngevity takes all the nutrients that makes up our food and condeses them into highly absorbable supplements. Food for the body. I think another reason why he keeps arguing with the rightful thinkers is to just prove how stupid he can be. Everytime I read one of his comments I just realize how more and more pathetic he is. Is he mentally challenged because he can’t understand this? Is he being held at gunpoint and being told to act retarded as he types. Who knows. It’s kind of sad to think how malnourished his parents were before time of conception though. That’s the only thing I can think of that explains the constant mishaps of his brain. He might of turned out a little smarter if he was nutrified with the 90 prior to conception. Well it is what it is i guess. Lazy man, you are the stupidest person I’ve ever came in contact with. Congrats.
Vinson,
Susan’s argument had basic logical flaws and didn’t even address the topic of the article. There’s nothing well-written about that.
There’s no evidence that Youngevity does any of what you claim. There’s no absorption rates published anywhere I can find. There’s no comparison with other products. There’s no science that the body NEEDS more nutrients than the basic USDA RDA amounts (I guess the USDA is in a conspiracy theory with the FDA along with all the other similar organizations in every country around the world.) This is well covered scientific territory. This is disputed by people trying to make money peddling their snake oil.
Hmmm, am I going to believe all the scientists in every country… even those who don’t like America? Or am I going to believe a snake oil peddler without a hint of proof? That’s a real tough one.
P.S. I’ve got proof that I’m smarter than 98% of the population. See my Mensa card. You really must not come in contact with many people.
Lazyman, you keep saying that you would Youngevity is snake oil and cost several hundred dollars a month and is all profit driven. I havent heard any facts on the cost of american health care. In 2012, the average health insurance cost for an individual through a company was $6,566 (~$550 monthly). In 2012, the average health insurance cost for a family plan through an employer was $16,351 ($1362 monthly). The MD medical structure is profit driven and extremely expsensive… So expensive that 62% of bankruptcies in the US in 2007 were due to medical reasons (of these, 3/4 of the filers had health insurance).
Also, the prevalence for the majority of chronic illnesses is increasing despite being the 2nd most expensive country for health care (17.6% GDP). If my doctor is too stupid to realize what really causes heartburn and cant even cure it, im not sure why we pay $150+ for a 15 minute appointment. They know so little able heartburn that the prevalence increases 4% per year…
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/health-insurance-premiums.aspx
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankruptcy.medical.bills/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_%28PPP%29_per_capita
http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/560076
You haven’t heard facts of on the cost of American health care, because it is irrelevant to the discussion of a snake oil products.
The supplement industry (which include Youngevity) is even more profit driven and doesn’t provide any useful science that it works.
You realize that our health care is 2nd most expensive because of politics in Washington, D.C. right? Other countries are allowed to negotiate medication prices. Medicare is not allowed. Companies use the money they make in America to subsidize their products in other countries.
Read the sections of “Premium Prices in the United States” and “No Negotiation, the Price Is Set” here: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/835182.
If you don’t like the pricing of medicine in the United States, write your congressman. The products don’t price themselves.
And yes, I’ve covered this in other articles on the site… articles that are more appropriate than one on Youngevity.
Editor’s Note: I’m the only one allowed to use a sarcastic name around here… and I do it only because I explained why in my About page. Hence, I’ve changed this username to more accurately reflect the author.
There are so many comments people are writing I can’t get through them. But I will say 100% that I have tried and use Youngevity’s “90 For Life” products and can speak from personal experience that nothing has made me feel better, given me more energy and completely killed my craving for any kind of soda. And for a 30 year plus soda drinker of 40-50 oz a day that says a lot. It’s sick and sad I know but that’s how I use to be, but thanks to these products I am done with soda!
The key of comparing any vitamin or mineral product with another is do they absorb into your body? Dr. Wollach is 100% correct in his findings and has done more research and much more qualified than “Lazy Man and Money.” Not only have the products I used worked for me and my friends, he has backed it up by a 100% money back guarantee. If you don’t like it and don’t notice a difference, send back empty bottles or half filled bottles and you get your money back. His studies and research back up everything he says so just because you read a label on the back of some product in a health food store, doesn’t mean it has the same impact that these products do. Thousands of pills out there for 30 cents a day don’t even absorb into your body. Which means you’ve wasted your money on something that doesn’t work. If the pill does not breakdown in a glass of water overnight, it will not break down into your body, period. This coming from my father that practiced Pharmacy for 50 years. He said that finally someone is getting it, that they realize pills are harder to absorb and therefore you are NOT getting the nutrition you need. Colloidal minerals absorb and if you’re not going to try the Youngevity brand that guarantees a 100% money back guarantee, then at least buy the Colloidal products that will absorb into your body. You’ll at least get some kind of effect there and at least the money you’re spending is getting results. But most Colloidal Minerals are more expensive than the pills you get off of the shelf. That’s how it’s always been and that’s not just Youngevity products.
Now to address the “quick cash” that you think this company gets from purchasing their products. Don’t we live in American where we are all free to build a life for ourselves and our family? What Dr. Wollach is doing, not only gives you a chance to feel better and become more healthy, but he also gives you a great opportunity to earn extra money by selling products that work for more people than not…at least that is what I’ve seen. So to fault a company for earning money by people purchasing their product and criticizing them for it, that’s ridiculous! It’s called “Free Enterprise” and if Dr. Wollach, the people in his company and those that want to jump in and work a business that they believe in and earns money, isn’t that what America was built upon? Yes the .30 cent product is less money but aren’t those companies doing the same thing…and if the product they’re selling doesn’t absorb into your body then you’re getting ripped off because it’s not doing what it was meant to do…and I would bet the family farm on it…they know that it doesn’t.
So get off your lazy butt and do more research and try one of the products before you compare and judge it. Because you’ve got nothing to back up your opinion except speculation.
I’m tired of everyone dogging successful companies and people that have worked hard to get where they’ve gotten. Dr. Wollach has a Master’s Degree in Agriculture, is a Veterinary Doctor AND an MD…what do you have? I may not be in this for the money but how it’s made me feel is worth every single penny!
YOUGEVITY has a life long customer in me!
Uninformed,
If 300 million people tried a sugar pill, a hundred years of research on the placebo says that 100 million people would give the same review you did of Youngevity’s “90 for Life.”
Are we going to start saying that sugar pills are the answer to better health? I sure hope not.
However, you seem to want to go there and think that it says a lot. If you’ve even read the article a few of the comments you’d know how flawed this logic is.
You bring up absorption of vitamins and minerals, but that is simply a fallacy. Do you think scientists and researchers spend millions/billions of dollars studying vitamins that aren’t absorbed? Of course not. However, you can see from Consumer Reports that absorption of vitamins and minerals is not something to think about.
Your father that practiced Pharmacy for 50 years is dead wrong. Perhaps it is easy to make this claim because you aren’t putting a name to it. Stomach acid is not water. I could leave a piece of steak in a glass of water for weeks and it wouldn’t break down. In the stomach it is digested and broken down easily. This is simply common sense. No one expects stomach acid and water to be the same.
So you can cry about absorption rates, but unless you have strong evidence that all science and Consumer Reports is wrong, you are making a weak case than any moron should be able to see through.
It’s not about whether “Dr. Wollach” (who?) has done more research or is more qualified than me… it is that people more qualified than Dr. Wallach definitively prove his research to be false.
Let’s not talk about money-back guarantees in MLM companies. They remind me of the manhood enlarging pills Enzyte that had a money-back guarantee as well. In fact, it was “double your money back.” Youngevity’s is 30 day from purchase, which may only be 20 days from when you receive your product and certainly not long enough to conduct a placebo controlled trial.
The article covered that we are getting more nutrition now than we did in the past. And let’s not forget that collodial minerals are potentially hazardous. Does the money back guarantee cover harming someone?
I would like to remind you that the “quick cash” that you are advertising is actually an MLM. The FTC associates MLMs with illegal pyramid schemes via their guidelines here. So why would Youngevity want to associate themselves with illegal pyramid schemes? I’m all for free enterprise, but a simple commission without the pyramid would be very easy to implement. If it were legal, you’d think they’d want to show it by taking this approach rather than the one associated with pyramid schemes.
So you get off your lazy butt and recognize that I’ve done extensive research, perhaps more than anyone else and my conclusion is justified.
I never dog companies and people working hard… I’m first person to support them. It’s why I write everyday to help consumers make wise decisions.
The products from Youngevity saved my sister’s life. MY sister had diabetes & heart problems for over 15yrs. She had dialysis and saw the best doctors who specialized in her condition. The doctors told her that there was nothing else they could do for her. She ate healthy & exercised. She eventually on her own stopped having dialysis and stopped taking all of her meds. She was extremely sick. She started taking Dr. Wallachs minerals and within six months she wasn’t diabetic anymore and her heart is stronger than ever.
Myra,
Read this. Or the updated version: right here
Dear Lazyman,
I am really glad to read your comment, I was going to apply to become one of youngevity distributor but I really would like to read more information and clinical trial/fact data about it.As I , myself am not well, I thought I would like to become my own testimonial to see if Se Wallach’s products work on me, so I have been emailing my questionaires to their teams to check what shall I buybut none of them are responding back to me..anyway..a friend of mind buying me their product..I have not used it 3 months yet..and I tried to take off my drug, but I got worse, so I am back to pharma drug to manage my pain..on the other hand just to be open minded that youngevity do not work to every one…so to any one who are interested to become an associate or using themself..just be open minded…do not hope too much ..perhaps integrated (combining) with the advise of your MD..remember Pharmaceutical companies spent millions on R&D and clinical trial involving thousands of thousands of people..does youngevity conducting clinical trial at all? either in vitro or in vivo??? I would like to know…anyway..LAZYMAN..appreciate your time to search and put this together..can you also have a look at ”ARIIX” what do you think about them?..what about their products?
I saw a comment from “Anna” saying that she tried youngevity products. Anna, Can you tell me what products you tried (how much and how long) and what ails you?
Hormone Replacement Therapy! Now that’s a good thing the medical establishment came up with. Let’s see, how many women were harmed?
I’m not sure Youngevity has anything to do with hormone replacement therapy. I haven’t seen anything on their products about that.
Ok, I have read at least 90% of the Lazy Man article and the comments for the sole reason of deciding whether to join Youngevity or not. Yes, I am in it for the money but I want to believe in the product I am selling. My wife and I belonged to a company that has been absorbed by Youngevity and so here I am through the magic of a Google search.
I agree that eating healthy and exercise is a major key to living a proper life. I also agree that there is a major difference between cheap products and “top of the line” products (generic running shoes vs Asics; generic muscle rub vs Salonpas; etc). There is no argument that some products are superior to others and that natural products are better than unnatural, sugar vs saccharin.
But as I read the arguments from both sides to my wife, she argued that Dr Wallach wouldn’t be a Nobel Peace Prize Nominee if he didn’t know what he was talking about. So I decided to research this claim and was left with a HUGE question mark above my head so I ask for both sides to help me. According to http://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/medicine/index.html “The statutes of the Nobel Foundation restrict disclosure of information about the nominations and selecting process for 50 years.” It also lists who can nominate and it states that there are no self appointments allowed. So if the list of nominees will not be released for the 1991 prize until 2041, how does Dr. Wallach know that he was nominated? If I am wrong about this, please inform me of why.
Lazy Man, I appreciate your research and your time in answering back to the comments even though I do disagree with some of it, but I do respect someone who backs their opinions with research. But as an ex powerlifter, I do agree with the Youngevity Crew that you have to pay for quality. Inferior, cheap products don’t compare to quality.
Researching,
Thanks for the comment. I’m fine with paying for quality. The problem is that there is no “quality” to be had in the supplement game. Calcium is calcium. The molecules are the molecules, Youngevity doesn’t have any special calcium molecules that other supplement makers lack.
If Youngevity’s supplements are better quality than other supplements, where’s the evidence of it? There don’t seem to be any scientific tests measuring quality.
And what of all the research that supplements do more harm than good. It’s very conclusive to the point where unbiased scientists are telling people to stop wasting their money. In talking about quality, you are overlooking this fact.
Since they don’t help your health, it is like spending your time debating the health benefits of putting Exxon gas or Chevron gas in your car. It doesn’t effect your health and there’s no known quality difference between the two. It seems the only differentiating factor is that one costs a lot more money.
If you are looking for natural products then you certainly don’t want to Youngevity products. I don’t see a Youngevity tree anywhere.
MLM companies/distributors routinely push the Nobel Prize nominee game. I think I first read it with Alex Schauss of MonaVie. It’s marketing… Most people won’t do the research to find out that they are sealed for 50 years.
Exxon is chevron you moron and there are different types of vitamins calcium and magnesium some have co factors and some are more natural and absorbable not to mention that food state is natural for the human body instead of synthetic chemical vitamins that other companies offer
Exxon (XOM) and Chevron (CVX) are different companies with different publicly traded ticker symbols. Here’s a chart if it helps.
Do you think thousands of research sciences who show that vitamin and mineral are a waste of money have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on research on products that aren’t absorbed?
Yes, food state is natural for the human body, so eat food, don’t take Youngevity. Smartest thing you said.
Thank you for indepth information, I was going to join as their member now i have to think twice, have you ever look at ARIIX as MLM what do you think about it?, I read in the web, it seems they have a good review…
I haven’t had a chance to look into ARIIX in any kind of depth. I have received email requests for it in the past. The fact that Google Suggest suggests Ariix pyramid scheme when I search for it, is probably a good sign to stay away.
Anna said: “have you ever look at ARIIX as MLM what do you think about it?, I read in the web, it seems they have a good review…”
Ariix looks exactly like a classic cookie-cutter Utah snakeoil pyrmaid scheme along the lines of Youngevity, Monavie, LifeVantage, etc.
Run away as fast as you can and don’t ever look back!
Levi,
I take care of myself and fortunately, I’m in very good health. Don’t fall for MLM health scam of have you tried “X”. Nothing good can come from it for the reasons in that article.
As a taste of you’ll learn in that article, there are thousands of products at GNC and no one can try them all. If you got to product #2639 and found that it worked for you, the placebo effect would be enough to declare the results inconclusive. And if you got through all of them, it wouldn’t matter because then we could declare any number of other products such certain years of french wines as possible fixes, carrying a rabbits foot in left pocket instead of your right, etc.
It’s a fools errand, which is why we have large scale, placebo controlled clinical trials to answer the question of “what works”. That’s an article from the National Institute of Health.
I bought osteo pack for my mom for her knees which she used it for 4 months but no improvements what so ever in contrast to the information given by Dr Wallace himself…
I recently heard someone called “Pharmacist Ben” on a local a.m. radio station dispensing medical advice and advertising Youngevity. His medical advice seemed questionable (essentially telling a caller diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat to disregard the previous medical testing related to her condition, and to use Youngevity products). I decided to do some casual online research about the product, which lead me here. Thank you for the in-depth, well cited analysis.
I sincerely hope this information will help consumers make the wise financial choice to avoid MLM schemes such as Youngevity, and will encourage people with health concerns to seek legitimate medical advice from medical doctors.
As the comments show, some people will never be convinced, regardless of evidence; however you have provided a great resource for people to make informed choices about their money and their heath.
I am glad to read this comment of GB as I would like to share my curiosity and doubt on youngevity…and I would appreciate if any other person can share their experience whether is good or bad… really appreciate this
You response about gmo’s is completely irresponsible. Last research has found the following.
Glyphosate (Roundup®) — the chemical used in
growing crops from genetically modified organisms
(GMOs) — in all probability, causes cancer.
Big Pharma and Monsanto must love you.
I’d rather supplement than take a bunch of pills which will never cure. Because if they cure you they’d go broke. Take a pill to alleviate the symptoms not cure take another pill to alleviate the side effects of the first pill it’s a vicious cycle.
So lazy man go pop your pills and eat your GMO’s and hopefully you won’t get cancer. I personally like the way God made things.
Laura,
I cited my sources on GMOs, which I realize you failed to do. There’s a lot of disinformation out there. Here are a few great examples of articles:
Newsweek – GMO Scientists Could Save the World From Hunger, If We Let Them
Vox – Poll: Scientists overwhelmingly think GMOs are safe to eat. The public doesn’t
Slate – The war against genetically modified organisms is full of fearmongering, errors, and fraud
If you think I’m being “completely irresponsible” for believing in those sources and their well-reasoned information, I have to question your judgment.
However, once again, this article isn’t about GMOs. When you focus on that, it appears to me that you are tacitly admitting that Youngevity is a scam and indefensible. You’d rather fight something else unrelated.
The irony is that Youngevity products are “popping pills”, which is what you tell me to go do. Huh?
I have to stop reading this. I have nothing to do with longevity, but the earlier post on polio and medicine curing it. The polio vaccine is not medicine, it uses a ‘hack’ to allow the body to produce memory cells to the polio virus. Hence, so the body can heal itself.
I’d like to point out that most medicines are plant derivatives as well. The pharmaceutical industry finds something that produces results – an extract, or molecule of a naturally occurring compound, and then they alter it so it can be patented.
You have gone to great lengths to discredit naturopathic medicine, but I ask, have you done something other than read articles and make assumptions? Why don’t you give it a try and see how you feel. Oh, but I guess ‘feeling’ is anecdotal, and hence worthless. Not all scientific research is done with the experimental method and is still considered scientific.
Gil,
We all have something to do with longevity, it’s part of be alive. Maybe you mean Youngevity?
Vaccines do indeed qualify as medicine. You may further qualify it as a “hack”, but anyone would call it medicine.
I think many people have pointed out that most medicines are plant derivatives. The pharmaceutical industry alters it so can be more effective, not as some kind of patenting hack. Many of the patents have expired and it’s not like we go back to eating bark from a Willow Tree. And hey, if you want to sell Willow Tree bark, go for it.
Yes, Gil, trying something to get a “feeling” is anecdotal and is especially worthless given what has been proven about the placebo effect in thousands, maybe millions of experiments. You tell me how anything valid is going to come from that flawed process. Why not do large-scale clinical trials that eliminate these obvious problems.
Have you ever taken youngevity products for a long time? Have you ever cured health problems with it? Well I have and it makes you look like a fool trying to talk like you know about something you havent even tried. I even met them in person and thanked them!
Nothing comes close to the quality and results of youngevity. I can live a normal life and work nice hours feeling great off it.
Again, if Youngevity products could cure any health problems, they’d get FDA approval. Hospitals would use them.
You look like the fool using such logic on products that aren’t proven clinically effective (as defined by the NIH process at that link).
I could go on a website and say that a special rabbit’s foot cured my health problems, you just need to use it for a year or two. You can rent these special ones for $99/mo. from me. Oh, you haven’t tried my special rabbit’s foot? Then you are the fool, because I have!
Such logic is nonsense and that’s what you are essentially trying to argue with.
You are right Lazy man FDA does not approved anything that is natural unless its synthesize – hence pharmaceutical company get approve first before they can sale it..and they have to do lots of clinical trial to make sure the drug is safe even though the side effect could be harmful in a longer term of usage..but they also have to outweigh the benefit of the side effect with the benefit of the treatment.
And also..what question me was: there are hundreds and hundreds of wealthy people there in the US..if youngevity can cure cancer , parkinson, dimentia, surely Michael J Fox alike or his family/PA would definitely buying the products to cure his disease?
FDA has approved vitamin D and calcium for osteoporosis: http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/LabelingNutrition/ucm2006876.htm
There are some others there as well. Obviously it doesn’t get more natural than vitamin D and calcium.
It’s maddening how many times I’ve had to inform people of this on the blog. It’s like the supplement industry have brainwashed millions of people into believing a lie.
Yes, clearly Michael J. Fox would just be taking Youngevity and be cured, right? Nope, it doesn’t work that way.
Wow this is proof. The FDA site even says that 99% of americans are deficient in one or more of the required minerals. AND it also says that ANY deficiency results in a disease. So it actually says on the FDA site that if you dont take youngevity (or minerals like it) then you are going to get a disease. Wake up you morons, its a fact you need youngevity or something like it.
I cured my anxiety, depression, OCD and now im curing my tumor from it. I also had toxicity and cancer which is going away.
I used to be sick all the time and now youngevity changed that. Thanks youngevity.
Thanks for the comment Eric.
I’m not arguing that the the FDA site says that 99% of Americans are deficient in one or more areas… but you should include a link to cite your source. The FDA doesn’t say anything of the such that if you don’t take Youngevity (or minerals like it) you are going to get disease. You won’t find that anywhere, because it simply isn’t true.
The problem is that it’s well-established (see articles cited) that supplements do not help with the problem. If you had a problem that required you to put a nail in the wall, would you use a sponge? Of course not, a sponge is simply not useful in solving the problem.
So what you are advocating here is that a different sponge may be helpful in putting a nail in the wall. Sorry, but it’s simply the wrong tool for the job.
If you want to put a nail in the wall, use a hammer. If you want to ensure you have vitamins and minerals, eat a healthy diet of foods rich in them.
This isn’t difficult. A fifth-grader (or even younger) can grasp these concepts.
Thats the worst analogy I have ever read something better would be if you paint your room white and miss some spots you still need white paint to finish so if the body is deficient in vitimins in minerals you would give it vitamins and minerals, not a sponge.
Except that studies show that trying to paint the spots doesn’t work. That’s the fundamental thing that you are missing here. Time and again, studies show that adding vitamin and mineral supplements don’t help and may actually hurt.
So I guess the idea is to take the time and care to paint the room right the first time (i.e. eat a proper diet), because you can’t go back and fix missed spots (i.e. use vitamins and minerals).
It’s amazing how many people on here are against eating well.
I have never read such an utter load of garbage since using the internet last 20 years. Whilst I agree that the youngevity products are over-priced to say they don’t work because it is not clinically proven is sheer stupidity. Anyone with just a little common sense and their eyes open can see the Western world has literally millions of sick people walking around like zombies with no clue where the sickness comes from. Vitamin and mineral deficiency is rife in Western culture and not all supplements are equal… hunt out plant derived supplements which is equivalent to eating plants as far as the body is concerned. Also, stop eating the foods that make you sick and your body will heal itself. Synthetic supplements cannot be compared to Tangy they really are a waste of money!
Ricardo, your comment had no logical basis.
If Youngevity believed their products worked, they’d be confident enough to do the clinical testing to prove it. That should tell you all you need to know. Also in all the thousands and thousands of clinical trials involving vitamins and minerals they have not been shown to work with the exception of scurvy and other rare vitamin-deficiency diseases that we’ve solved for decades now.
Again, it’s been extensively proven that supplements don’t work – Stop wasting money on them. You are missing the point in talking about plant derived supplements or synthetic. It’s like discussing whether a bottle of chardonnay or a bottle of shiraz is better fuel for your car. The answer is that neither is, because wine is not car fuel.
Also, just curious, how do you know that Tangy isn’t synthetic? Did the company say it or is there reputable third-party verification that you are basing this on?
For real? Are you even a health expert? Are you basically saying there is no need for naturopaths, Chinese herbalists, or nutritionists either? Any expert knows that if you take supplements long-term, they need to be taken in the correct ratio in comparison to the other vitamins and minerals. Also, some specific supplements absolutely need to be taken with the one it cancels out otherwise it eliminates it. For example; selenium and copper. Selenium is also a mineral that often needs to be taken long-term. If one was to solely focus on taking Selenium, they could potentially create themselves a thyroid condition due to a self-created copper deficiency.
My main point… when taking medicine, it’s best taken from the experts. I have nothing but love for Dr Joel Wallach. Because of him, I can walk!
For real?
Are you “basically saying” that we should let any snake oil salesmen charge us a huge amount of money with fully validating the clinical trials?
If you can walk because of Joel Wallach, he and Youngevity should get the product verified as effective with the FDA. Don’t you want other people to walk. Why don’t they do this?
In other thoughts, outlandish claims (paraphrased), “I can walk because Wallach”, require extraordinary proof. Where is the causation of this?
I was online looking to see if I could get any verification that Dr.Wallach’s supplements actually worked. Cause someone recommended it to my mom and she invited a promoter to the house and she is buying the products right now cause she believes them but I though it was a little fishy. Also,she had a bad experience with Herbalife and I don’t want it to happen to her again but she is truly head deep in this product and idk what to do, cause the products are really expensive and we just don’t have the money to buy something that might not work. Also they are telling her to gradually take my sister (who has epilepsy) off her meds. and to start giving her the Youngativity stuff, IDk WHAT TO DO!!!!
Don’t worry about your mom she’ll be fine actually she’ll be healthier than she’s ever been in a matter of weeks, you can afford health and this will lower grocery bills and hunger caused by gmo food by a lot since gmos don’t allow the body to process nutrients due to the abundance of roundup in gmo food. Don’t worry about your mom buying natural cures that work, worry about your mom being an experiment to the gmo food system and pharmaceutical industry, your mom is on the right path…maybe it’s time to re evaluate your own health.
I suggest that you threaten to report the distributor and company to the FDA and FTC. Then actually do it.
All you pro Wallach/Youngevity posters Rock! This site should be taken down due to unprofessional, rude, inaccurate and untruthful comments by this LD person whom is either bias to the views of “big pharmy” or simply lacking knowledge (all documented) of the great health benefits offered by the licenced naturopathic physicians approach to CURING disease.
First id like to say to Lazy Man that my comments are not personal but in rebuttal to so many ridiculous comments you have made. Who ever “you” is while using a fictitious name so you can say whatever you want while in hiding. You go on and on about posters not sourcing yet you dont source neither. And by the way we as posters providing personal opinion dont have to site anything although it doesnt hurt. But i do hope to shed some light on why Youngevity is probably the or one of the best sources for the vitamins and minerals etc essential to the human body on a daily basis and which our bodies can not produce to ward off a/o cure disease. And yes there is an abundance of testing and proof from clinics all over that have been CURING disease for the last 25 to 30 yrs under a licensed physician. In case you dont know the naturopathic physicians are fully legally able to prescribe any prescription they deem required yet they rarely do. Now do you think that is because they want to promote holistic med or because they KNOW there are remedies that really work and lack in bad side effects? LD I have a few questions for you: Are you one to get the flu shot each year, this year perhaps and did you check to see whats in that shot before hand? Well to keep it brief in many cases they dont work by chance of being the wrong strand and are full of harmful fillers and which is documented and offered by the manufacturer. But who reads the warning label and ingredients list before getting a flu shot. Lazy man you might want to educate yourself a bit in this area before embarrassing yourself anymore. For example you referred to Dr Joel Wallach as “snake oil salesmen” yet his recent extensive research backed by millions of grant money was presented and acknowledged at the Smithsonian Library, thats right the place where they keep the really important stuff. He is greatly respected by other prominent physicians such as Dr Glidden and Dr Group. Those slander sites about him are nothing more than that. The one i read was still asking for donations yet had not been updated since 2007
and a few general comments about your whole presence here
You are reviewing products/people to flush out scams as i understand. This was the only one i read and surely the last but i would have to say the Youngevity review was probably the worst and most lacking backing Ive read. You say “I didn’t compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close,…” Sorry but no that doesnt cut it. the whole point is to verify the nutritional content yet you use general vague terms. And cost has to be linked with the verification of the ingredients in order to make a decision weather to use it or not. Well it is costly but it should also be noted that you are getting the 90 odd essential nutrients to keep healthy.what you could include is an accurate comparison of another product having the same quality and quantity of these 90 nutrients, my guess it would be a whole bunch of products costing a lot more. Anyways thats your deal im just saying could you please refrain from posting misleading inaccurate reviews and then bashing all who comments
After all what are we dealing with here… doctors helping people under healthy legal clinical alternatives and yes its all scientifically verified. Do your homework please
Pepper, it isn’t scientifically verified. That’s the point.
And yes it does “cut it” to not spend hours trying to quantify a few milligrams of one vitamin vs. another when they aren’t shown to be helpful in the first place. It’s like trying to compare the nutrition of two different brands of apple pies… one might have more sugar and another might have less fiber. They are different, but clearly trying to quantify the nutritional differences is not likely to be a fruitful endeavor.
Just like how no two apple pies are the same, there is no other product with exactly the same quality and quantity of items listed.
Do your homework, Pepper. Perhaps start by looking up what pearls before swine means.
Peper, certainly seems unhinged. A typical distributor who’s irate that U.S. law prohibits Youngevity and its salesforce from selling their crappy hyperinflated pyramid scheme supplements as miracle cures. Could Peper have picked two worse “authorities” to cite than Joel Wallach and Peter Glidden, both of whom are naturopath quacks that work for/ have financial interests in YGYI? I’ve seen a couple of Peter Glidden’s videos and they were insultingly vapid, seething with contempt, and bordering on insane. He’s incredibly creepy to boot (has the charisma of herpes) and is an unimaginably piss-poor spokesperson.
Not surprisingly, Peper didn’t even attempt to offer a rebuttal to any of the details in the article, because there’s nothing he can refute. Instead we get treated to a sneering “health lecture” from someone who is seems completely ignorant about science, medicine, and U.S. advertising law; doesn’t understand what it means to be relevant; and can barely cobble together a coherent thought.
The post had every aspect of the delusional conspiratorial BS we’ve come to expect of these scammy operators: e.g.., insisting that the site should be taken down (“worst” site ever according to Peper); Big Pharma conspiracy theories; an indictment against Lazyman for being anonymous (even though he’s not, and it’s irrelevant either way); bogus claims that vitamins and minerals are a panacea for diseases; anti-vaccination fantasy; and appeals to authority (citing the company‘s two naturopath spokequacks).
Peper said: “For example you referred to Dr Joel Wallach as “snake oil salesmen” yet his recent extensive research backed by millions of grant money was presented and acknowledged at the Smithsonian Library.”
Wallach hasn’t published any “recent” research. He co-wrote a book published back in 1983 called “Diseases of Exotic Animals” — so far back that I bet no one has cracked open a copy in two decades. It’s been out of print for so long you can’t even find a new copy on Amazon. It’s obviously nothing of great significance by today’s standards. Recent in the science world mean the last 2-3 years!
http://www.amazon.com/Diseases-Exotic-Animals-Surgical-Management/dp/0721691056
I’ve seen no evidence that Wallach was ever “acknowledged” by the Smithsonian Library either. They might have one of his books in their expansive physical collection, alongside their other 1,499,999 books.
http://library.si.edu/digital-library
But even if they did — so what? That’s simply another fallacious appeal to authority. It doesn’t have any bearing on the critique of Youngevity and their products. It doesn’t make it OK to lie to people either, by selling them BS supplements and pyramid schemes.
Peper said: “After all what are we dealing with here… doctors helping people under healthy legal clinical alternatives and yes its all scientifically verified. Do your homework please.”
That’s not even remotely what we’re dealing with here. Younvgevity products do not mitigate diseases. If the company and its distributors insist on breaking the law and advertising them to the contrary, then there will almost assuredly be a steep price to pay. If any “doctor” (i.e. quack) is using Youngevity products in any way, it’s to help themselves (to cash), not other people.
Contrary to what Peper snottily insisted, there is no scientific verification whatsoever that any Younegvity product is a “legal clinical alternative” to anything. Peper doesn’t even realize that these threadbare rants aren’t doing Youngevity any favors; they are more nails in the coffin.
I think Dr Wallach is valid along with Dr Glidden. FDA in my opinion don’t approve non-prescription based vitamins because there is no money to be made in it for them or the big pharma industries. There are too many diseases that were not around after 1900 or the 20 century because of our eating habits have changed. Its not rocket science.
Dorman, there would be “money in it” for the FDA to approve supplements, because they could then impose fees on those companies and not just the pharmaceutical industry. Also, the FDA is a government agency not designed with the purpose of “making money.”
You can think that Dr. Wallach is valid, but as I pointed out in this thread previously, other experts show he’s made up diseases that simply don’t exist. Not sure how that gives you the impression he’s “valid.” It’s your opinion, but I fail to see how it makes any sense.
I’ve never tried Youngevity although am interested in it. The article seems to have completely lacked an unbiased response to anything. The comparisons are obtuse as it’s very difficult to compare a car with a pill; or a drink with a pill; or a “similar pill” with a pill.
Also, to completely misinterpret the health effects of taking vitamins is silly “supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful.” THAT’S THE POINT!! how many people these days are well-nourished? That’s like saying a well hydrated person should not drink an additional 2 gallons of water a day. Hello…
Monsanto and others have done a good job of feeding our world’s population but it’s clearly come at a cost – how could it not? The US population doesn’t eat right and the FDA, and EPA have largely become politicized… so who can you trust?
I really wish this article took a neutral stance because I have completely disregarded it now.
Derek,
Not sure where you got lost on the comparisons. It isn’t difficult to compare the concept behind two items. If you get stuck in the mentality that it is difficult to compare a similar pill with another pill then you are going to be lost in life. You’ll be stuck saying, I can’t compare two televisions, two cars, two homes, or anything else.
If you read the article that you quoted, it shows that for the purposes of the study the people are indeed “well-nourished.” In the terms that the article is using, it means that they aren’t in third world countries where hunger and mal-nourishment is common. Do you think they’d come to the conclusion that supplements are a waste of time for everyone otherwise? Of course not. These are scientists and doctors.
However, let’s assume if your point was accurate (it isn’t) that we shouldn’t take additional supplements if we are well-nourished. In that case, the goal would still be to get everyone to the point of being well-nourished, which means we wouldn’t be telling them to take supplements. Supplements would give them an excuse to not eat well… and that’s a problem. I think we should all be able to agree that a vitamin doesn’t give one a license to eat poorly.
What is “clearly the cost” of feeding the world’s people? I just want to make sure that we all agree on it if it is so “clear.”
You can trust large-scale, properly blinded studies that use many researchers to come to a unified conclusion. That’s what we have and what I’ve cited with supplements. What we have with Youngevity is the equivalent of something claiming that they have a juggling unicorn in their garage. There’s no useful evidence of it and it goes against everything we’ve come to know in extensive, extensive testing.
Sorry, but I’m not going to take the neutral stance that maybe this one time the company does indeed have the juggling unicorn in their garage unless they provide the proof. That’s just dumb.
I really wish to thank you for doing all the research and time consuming work for us. I grew up in a country where injections (vitamins/mineral/etc.) were the order of the day to “prevent” disease. My maternal grandmother died of breast cancer, other members of the family were not spared their lives by any of the miracle injections they were subjected to throughout their lives. I have one advise to all those who seek better and and longer lifespans: eat well, exercise and rest.
Yes, I do take supplements, under the supervision of my personal doctor. I do not endorse any of these “miraculous” concoctions, and, just like the old saying goes: IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE…….!!!
I truly feel for my friends who have spent so many hours of their precious time, money and energy into the “own your own business, which you can pass on to your children” lies. Those who have ears…….
I am glad that you also supporting the lazy man opinion, unfortunately lots of people are so blinded by the fact that the marketing deploy are so good and there are lots of people are so desperate and vulnerable they are just so blinded and hoping that miracle happen..and of course..majority of them used to eat junk fast food..then if they started to change their habit by changing their life style (eating healthy, exercise, plenty of fluids..) naturally adding it with supplements (it does not matter where the supplements coming from) their life got to be better off..it is only natural..I just feel really sorry for them..if Youngevity or Mr Wallach trully would like to help people.he could sale it less as he must now earn quite a bit..start to give …yes..MLM cost money…but to be honest..people have a freedom of choice to choose where to buy..if they prefer to spend the money with youngevity then it is theirs…but they should really look DR Sircus is quite good and other company is quite ethical and professional they do not keep slashing FDA or other organisation…THANK YOU ..for both…comment I hope GOD will open these people eyes to see…
I get the whole statistically unproven bit.. I havent seen a double blind study for any of the youngevity products. I have seen double blind studies for various minerals in their products, but thats not quite the same…
It may be statistically unproven, but that doesnt make it not work. The things that ive seen from Youngevity products over the past 2 months.
– Ive limped for 5+ years from a messed up knee. I had a pain level of around 5 or 6. After 1.8 months of medical nutrition (butt loads of glucogel) i have a pain level of 0-1, my knee has stopped popping and im easing back into running/cycling without any issues. No more limping.
– Heartburn of the past 4 months. off meds and cured in 6 days.
– Osteo-Arthritis – joint pain drastically reduced in one month. Not fixed, but will see what happens
– Restless Leg Syndrome – Cured in 2-3 weeks and off meds. My mom can now sleep at night.
You will never see double blind studies of Youngevity products, because that would definitively prove something. If the products worked for any medical condition, you’d see them doing that to definitively prove that the products work. If the products don’t work, Youngevity certainly doesn’t want to definitively prove that they don’t work.
I believe they’d rather leave it as an unanswered question and rely on people to report the placebo effect as they typically do with MLM products (see here).
Wow u took info from a site where he also refuses to try the products. So intill u actually try them ur whole deal is suspect.
The handfull of sites that talk nonstop shit about youngevity. The one thing they have in common is they will not try it . But they will spout on about science all day . … Science is similar to religion. It has an agenda sometimes.
U can buy them on amazon so u don’t even have to go to any cult meetings.
I cut the dosage to 1/4 or less & there still awesome. Now Il still exercise eat healthy & take other brands but …. Like I said try it . Then talk or do whatever u want. I personally don’t care . But it will be fun to see u in a yr still talkin smack without having the most angles of info . So shill on !
You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Youngevity.
Wow,
I haven’t tried jumping off a building, but I can tell you what the result is, because it’s (unfortunately) been done. It’s not like one time gravity isn’t going to work and the person will be suspended in air. Similarly we’ve taken vitamins and supplements and as the studies I’ve shown on millions of people tell, it’s not like anything magical is going to happen. With the placebo effect, someone might report it. So if I take it and tell you it works, you would be wise to say, “Hey wait a minute. There’s studies of millions of people who says this doesn’t work and we can’t be sure if he’s experiencing the placebo effect.”
Since we all should be able to agree that you can not logically place any value on a positive review from any one person… why would you care whether I, the Pope, or LeBron James tried it or not?
Science is not similar to religion… here’s Berkeley University’s take. Yes, they can both have an agenda. Here the only agenda that is well-proven is MLM salespeople pitching overpriced products as miracle cures with no legitimate scientific evidence to support it. The agenda is clear and obvious, because you aren’t seeing people post a comments about Centrum or any other non-MLM vitamin brand on the market. Yet it seems to happen with every MLM one… and this website has documented proof of all those comments.
Myrical,
You have not clue what you are talking about when it comes to logic.
Wow said: “The handfull (sic) of sites that talk nonstop shit about youngevity. The one thing they have in common is they will not try it . But they will spout on about science all day . … Science is similar to religion. It has an agenda sometimes.”
Science is nothing at all like religion; in fact it can be regarded as the antithesis of religion. You can scoff at science all you want but the irony is that without it we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
It makes no sense for you to be upset that people aren’t keen on “trying it”. First, vitamin supplements don’t produce observable effects for consumers, so there’s no big experiment to necessary to evaluate such a product. It’s simply a question of quality, reliability, and price.
Second, and most importantly, you have to earn someone’s trust and confidence before asking them to part with their money. But instead Youngevity offers up products made from sludge from a mine in Utah; uses naturopathic quacks and lunatics as their shills (Joel Wallach, Peter Glidden, Alex Jones, Benny Hinn, etc.); prices their products 20-fold above retail to fuel a pyramid scheme; and uses false and misleading miracle-cure fairy tales to sucker the public.
Not only would I not part with a penny for any Youngevity products, I wouldn’t take them if they were offered to me for free. Or maybe I would, just so I could flush them down the toilet to save some other hapless soul from taking it. But then again I have too much respect for my toilet.
Yes, I’m one of the few ‘odd’ ones against the American Cancer Society. Wish you could expose IT for the total scam it is. Really, how many billions do they need to find a cure? It will never be “found” by the American Cancer Society I assure you. Too much money to be bilked in donations to disrupt that money train.
I’d rather do one on “Natural News” that you linked to here. I’ve started down that rabbit hole and it is UGLY.
How many billions do you need to start a colony in another solar system? Hell, we put a man on the moon almost 50 years ago and an Apple Watch has more computing power than they had in an entire room. How many billions has NASA spent? Why can’t I have lunch on Neptune this afternoon?
The above paragraph hopefully helped you understand that some things are very, very complex and people have very unrealistic expectations. Curing cancer is one of those things. Like the space program, we’ve made great strides in many areas. My best friend beat cancer 4-5 years ago now. It wasn’t because she took vitamins or suddenly ate healthy either.
Since bringing up putting a man on the moon. That man was Niel Armstrong. He died after a medical procedure done by a real Dr. Yes a medical procedure that was done by a real Dr. And charged real money for that procedure. His condition wasn’t just not fixed after this sale of this procedure. He was dead. Because he trusted his Dr. This happens all the time. How many cases of death have been reported due to vitamins minerals or supplements? I’m not claiming there are zero because I don’t know. But I can guarantee you direct result of deaths by Dr’s and medical procedure is way more common than by vitamin minerals and supplements. I mean think about it. He was alive now he is dead. This procedure by medical doctors/professionals killed him.
Wait… are you trying to say that humans (doctors) make mistakes over the course of history? That sounds hard to believe. I thought ever doctor healed every person, every time. Surely no one has ever died during a medical procedure.
I am further shocked that counterfeit money wasn’t used for the procedure. It was my impression that no one used “real money” ever.
Now that I have some of the sarcasm out of my system, let’s please try to have an IQ of 70 here.
If you get a bad gash and are bleeding do you go to the ER and get stitches? Of course, right? You don’t take vitamin C and let your blood continue to puddle on the floor, right?
The vitamin or supplement isn’t going to fix anything any more than just have a good diet is. By the time you need to get a medical procedure, things are more urgent.
Cars kill more people than sofas too, but that doesn’t mean you can commute to work in a sofa. I mean think about it… why aren’t people commuting to work in safe sofas instead of cars that have killed people?
This is a children’s article – written by a child mind.
Spinoza, this article is not intended for children. I may review ABC Mouse in a month or two, which may be what you are looking for.
You make me chuckle. Sounds like you trust the US gov’t (FDA, etc) to help you figure out what foods/supps/etc are good for you. Is this the same FDA that approves drugs (take a look at the money trail there…) only to take them off the market later because of too many injuries/deaths? The same FDA that takes the word of the MANUFACTURER of a drug for “scientific” studies of efficacy and safety? So sad that people without true knowledge can take up space on the internet…
You make me chuckle. It sounds like you use distrust of the FDA to support snake oil. The FDA does not take the word of the manufacturer of a drug, there are multiple levels of clinical trials.
On the other hand, you seem to be trusting the word of Youngevity (the manufacturer) for efficacy and safety with out any clinical useful trials.
Jessica, I couldnt find any testimonials for anything that wasnt form a seller or their own website. Which scared the hell out of me. And has actually solidified how I listen to shows like Coast to Coast. It’s like fangoria. And the products they promote, I very much have to do my own research to see if it is valid at all. Not saying its not, but in the vast ocean that is the Internet, HOW CAN I NOT FIND 1 GENUINE SITE WITH TESTIMONIALS. Closest I can find are amazon reviews. but even there, many seem fishy.
Hi Youngevity Corporate all just would like to let you know that at the bottom of youngevity promotion you can see the print out as follow :
* CALIFORNIA CONSUMERS – PROP 65 WARNING: These products contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.
CAN SOME ONE ADVICE ME…WHY IS THAT..?????
Anna, when I lived in California there were signs on fences with that warning. It was everywhere. I don’t think it should be on food, but the Prop 65 warning was almost everywhere.
Writing stupid articles like the one lazy man did here will cause cancer and birthdefects.
Jim Hood seems to think that people NOT taking Youngevity products will get cancer and have birthdefects. I don’t think I suggested anything as such. I don’t believe Youngevity won’t go on record that they have exclusive benefits in those area.
So how does this article cause cancer and birthdefects again?
Did I ever once mention Youngevity in my comment? Nope! Did I ever once suguest these claims? Nope!
[Editor’s Note: You previously wrote, “I personally know many people who have had there type 2 diabetes, liver problems, blood pressure problems, and many other problems ‘reversed’ with the use of Youngevity products.”
You not only mentioned ‘Youngevity products’, but you made the claims and you made it on an article about Youngevity.
I think it is a wise idea that you get your comments straight before you start trying to put words in peoples mouths. My comment was referring to your article writing skills. My comment had nothing to do with Youngevity, just you.
[Editor’s Note: Again, your comment directly referenced Youngevity. If you had a comment about me that wasn’t related to Youngevity, I wouldn’t have published it. My policy is that comments need to at least attempt to move the conversation forward.]
Buying these products is the best thing I ever did. Thank God for Youtube, that’s how I found them.
If buying a vitamin is the best you have done, Eva, you have had a truly sad life. Even prisoners would probably say that they’ve read books that were better experiences than buying a vitamin.
It is obvious to me that Lazy Man wants to keep the money flow going to big pharma. After all without it his wife would be un-employed and they would be broke.
As an employee of the United States military, my wife’s income is completely unrelated to anything due to “Big Pharma.”
Hi Freddy, I think it is very unjustified for you to attck lazy man’s family and about phamra company. without pharma company people who has got polio might die young..pharma companies do making profit from their products – of course..they have spent millions to do research, development, clinical trials..involvings scientists, professors, etc..evrything is very costly..thanks to them..how we cured and managed lots of diseases..in fact we found lots of illness now then 100 years ago..just like MLM companies they have to put 20 fold to get the same result as normal excellent health shop like youngevity but there is no clinical trial on those? at the end of the day people have the choice to chose a healthy lifestyle..they do not even need a drug from big pharma..but if they do..it will be quicker to get suppression tablet from pharma (temporary) and go back to a normal healthy life style again without spending so much monies to get supplements…the drugs will help any patients to get back to their quality of life if they would start to change their life style…but if they don’t it does not matter even if they take any supplements it wont help neither…! Thanks for modern medicine, doctors, scientists.., nutritionists..if people live
in a healthy life style..you don’t need youngevity or buy any supplements..because the food supply all of it.but we still need to go to the doctors if wwe need hip replacement.., got car accident…any mechanical issues with our body system..but unfortunately In my opinion I still say that youngevity and company alike utilizing their product for vulnerable and desperate people.
I have zero affiliation with Youngevity company, I was just searching for info on the product and came across this website. I just have to say that what you have said in the above article actually does the opposite of convincing people not to buy Youngevity, you lose all credibility in the majority of people’s eyes when you say that Naturopathics are quacks and that supplements are useless,, this is the way the world is turning more towards real God given cures (powerful herbs, supplements and specific diets) versus a quick fix pharma band-aid to mask the symptoms, good luck with the medical system when you get sick lol…
Thanks Natalie, I cite my sources that I believe show that Naturopathics are indeed involved in quackery. As far as God-given cures goes, how did that work for polio? Which herb/diet eradicated that?
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t live healthy. I’m saying that we should. However, if things should happen to go bad (age does take a toll on the body), we should use the tools that are shown to help us. Thus far, many extensive studies show that vitamins/minerals do not help us live healthy (unless we already living VERY unhealthy)… and they don’t fix things when they go bad.
Do you have research to support these comments? Dr Wallach and Dr. Glidden do have research to support the claims regarding youngevity. MD’s and hospitals will never use these products because patients would improve tremendously and there’s no high mark up profit in it for doctors because it’s not supported by insurance companies. The products are awesome, the education is priceless.You keep giving your money and health to big pharma and the MD’s.
Thanks DT. I included links to research for any and all comments that I felt need explanation. This includes links to research about Wallach’s quackery and even a made-up disease that doesn’t exist.
Can you share the “research” that Wallach and Glidden are citing (reputable links, not just them saying it is so)?
Youngevity is already pitching a high mark-up without the clinical studies. If I’m going to pay a high mark-up, why not get what the best scientists have PROVEN to work.
Hi there,
You said that Dr Wallach done the research that his products did help cured ?..can you please share with ? which one..which study…did he done double blind..what kind of research..I have been trying to look for it but never find any research..what I could see was a few testimonial from all distributor who are using his products though..I would appreciate if you could let me know which research he has done that show a good result…as it is very important to show this study..thanks>>!!!
DT said: “Dr Wallach and Dr. Glidden do have research to support the claims regarding youngevity.”
Wrong. Claims being made, somewhat covertly, are that the company’s products can prevent, treat, and cure diseases. They absolutely do not have any research to back that up. Wallach and Glidden are merely hacks pretending to be doctors in an attempt to deceive the public in furtherance of their pyramid scheme.
DT said: “MD’s and hospitals will never use these products because patients would improve tremendously and there’s no high mark up profit in it for doctors because it’s not supported by insurance companies.”
That’s idiotic. MDs and hospitals don’t use Youngevity’s products because the products are worthless BS sold by degenerate con artists and pyramid scheme scammers.
DT said: “The products are awesome, the education is priceless.”
The products are the antithesis of awesome, and I’ve seen the mind-numbing fluff and blatant misinformation that passes for “education” at Youngevity sales pitches. Pitiful!
DT said: “You keep giving your money and health to big pharma and the MD’s.”
I’m perfectly healthy, so I’m not giving money to Big Pharma or MDs at the moment. But if I were sick and my choice was between being treated by educated health professionals and with medicine that actually works versus inert overpriced snakeoil supplements sold by quacks like Wallach’s and his ilk, the choice would be incredibly easy to make.
The truth is that if there weren’t a pyramid scheme attached to Youngevity’s worthless products, you wouldn’t be saying jack about them. What a sad and perverse way to try to line your pockets. Shame on you predator.
Curious to know why the Youngevity distributors have not mentioned Dr Joel Wallach’s invitation to speak at the United Nations General Assembly session that took place in September and then again in October? Would that make him legitimate or not to the nay sayers?
What were the diseases Dr Joel Wallach made up?
Just wondering………
Tarrie, I have linked to the article probably around 50 times in the comments… and each time I mention it. Please click this and read it:
“Claims to have cured cases of porcine Alzheimers. Pigs don’t get Alzheimer’s disease.”
The structure of the article is to show the ridiculous claims Wallach has made in the first sentence. The second sentence is to show the facts.
Tarrie Monet said: “Curious to know why the Youngevity distributors have not mentioned Dr Joel Wallach’s invitation to speak at the United Nations General Assembly session”
Maybe because it didn’t happen. Wallach was given a dubious award (Global Officials of Dignity Award) by a dubious organization (We Care for Humanity) at a summit meeting that was allegedly to be held at the UN building. It’s not even clear if the event was actually held at the UN building because according to this source, there was “a last minute change of venue due to a political issue.”
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1263226
Any organization that would confer an award on Wallach immediately loses any and all credibility, unless it were an award for peddling BS, which Wallach (and his minions like Tarrie) excel at.
Well Vogel,
So for asking a question, you attack by referring to me as a minion!?!!
I am not a Youngevity distributor! So I don’t peddle the product!! I may agree with SOME of the things Dr Joel Wallach speaks of, but I’m certainly not a minion as you say….
Tarrie said: “I am not a Youngevity distributor! So I don’t peddle the product!! I may agree with SOME of the things Dr Joel Wallach speaks of, but I’m certainly not a minion as you say…”
When it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck…
I would like to know the ingredients and dosages of the Youngevity supplements to figure out if they are healthy or not for one to take regularly.
Tarrie Minion said: “Well Vogel, so for asking a question, you attack by referring to me as a minion!?!!”
To start, smack yourself upside the head for superfluous use of exclamation marks. Secondly, I answered your question. The story about Wallach addressing the UN was BS. End of story. You can thank me later, ungrateful minion.
If MD , Doctors and others health care professionals alike , people studying science like myself believe that the products work , we will buy it if not for the business site of it….but it for ourself and for our live one..why don’t we?..anything without scientifically proven, double blind studied, properly..not just testimonial from people or families who are selling the product cant be back up as clinically proven safe. Hence each time you take any vitamin or supplement you have to keep liaising with your health care professional..would Youngevity and the like wise company take responsibility if something goes wrong when taking their products?
Firstly, I have no connection with Wallach or his products. I have not used or even held them, including his books.
I think this article is totally biased. Regardless if you agree or disagree with it, is it biased? Yes it is.
Next, I would not ask a Vetinary assistant to heal my body. However an expert vet will know all animals including humans need water and air, they know animals need oxygen for fuel for the muscles as well as multiple other uses for oxygen in animals. They also know bone is similar and made by similar (I am reluctant to say ‘the same’ as I am not an award winning biologist) materials. Muscle, brain, blood, organs etc are made by similar mechanisms throughout all animals using similar materials- be it minerals or whatever.
So… I presume a broken leg can be helped by a splint in animals including humans, I presume water heals dehydration in animals including humans, I presume more complicated health issues share a similar cure in various animals, and as humans are an animal, in humans too. Lets not disregard his every word because of an example someone came up with about a vets assistant.
I have now watched videos on youtube with information/opinion regarding diabetes, alzheimers, arthritis, osteoperosis, can cer, and obesity amongst others, and I would say to the person reading this that if you or a loved one are in pain or your doctor painted a bleak picture of the future of your health then you have nothing to loose by watching a few youtube videos. However please be warned that once you watch 2 hours of this stuff you will want to watch more, and learn more.
My dad has high blood pressure, I have given him some of the information I have learned about the condition. My friend is diabetic and I will be telling her what I have learned when I next see her. Incredibly the information I learned from Dr Peter Glidden who himself learned from Dr Wallach about breast cancer blew me away and is exactly what got me on this hunt for information in the first place.
Dr Peter Glidden (on the ihealthtube.com channel on youtube) claims that Dr Wallach successfully sued the FDA for a ‘qualified health claim’ so that he and others would have the right in a public forum to say that taking 200micro g’s of selenium a day can reduce the occurrence of breast cancer by 82%. It also reduces the occurrence of lung cancer EVEN IF YOU ARE A SMOKER by 30%! Colon cancer by 50% and prostate cancer by 60%. I think you will agree that if you or your close family have been diagnosed with any of these cancers you will be clicking for that video on youtube by the time you finish reading this.
Ladies, Dr Wallach has been alowed by the FDA to say in public that 200 micro g’s of selenium a day reduces breast cancer by 82% (helps you not to get, and reduces size of cancer after diagnosis). Please tell your friends.
Dr Wallach also has nutritional advice for weight loss, go check him out. Oh, and before I forget, B-17 (apricot kernels and apple pips) sound like they help heal a cancerous body, but you will have to search yourself!! ;)
Knowledge is power. :D
(power to the people!)
Three eyes,
I’m biased against all forms of fraud. When you learn about MLM/pyramid schemes, you know which red flags to look for. I pointed out some of them in this article.
While there are some similarities between animals and humans (fixing a broken leg for example), let’s realize that we have millions of qualified doctors to choose from. There’s no need to go vets or vet assistants.
I’m not disregarding what Wallach says because he’s a vet, but because legitimate experts have presented extensive evidence that he’s flat-out wrong. I’ve cited this in previous comments and the article.
You have a lot to lose by watching YouTube videos of quack doctors. You may find yourself believing that is legitimate and waste precious time and money on it, instead of going with the science.
I don’t see any Selenium claims on the FDA’s site here: http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/LabelingNutrition/ucm2006876.htm. I see calcium and folic acid. Did you know that the random product I found has more selenium than the nearly-equivalent Youngevity product?
Here’s what I found from WebMD, the most reputable source covering B17, that I could find:
“Apricot kernel contains a toxic chemical known as amygdalin. In the body this chemical is converted to cyanide, which is poisonous. There was interest in using apricot kernel to fight cancer because it was thought that amygdalin was taken up first by cancer cells and converted to cyanide. It was hoped that the cyanide would harm only the tumor. But research has shown that this is not true. The amygdalin is actually converted to cyanide in the stomach. The cyanide then goes throughout the body, where it can cause serious harm, including death.”
Awesome advice… let’s promote poisoning people with cyanide.
This is what you get when you take your advice from quacks on YouTube.
dear three eyes,
I have to support lazy man here, why can’t we, just express our thanks to lazy man who have the gut and time to research and giving us this information so that people should be raised their awareness just to be careful and just thin before they buy things, they can compare to buy directly to any other health shop that can sell much cheaper than having to part their money due to MLM fee if they really would like to buy any supplement, some supplements are really good only if you don’t enough healthy diet, but if you have a proper normal meal..supplements is not necessary..actually too much supplements can harm your body,because our body have immunity and can heal our self..hence when we have a cold or cough is best not to have anti biotic is better to drink plenty of liquid with ginger or lemon and honey..i am health care professional will advice patient first to change their life style by eating healthy diet then exercise..and last thing will medication (temporarily) its only human them self that chose to be obese, hypertension…etc..so in all people do not need to go to doctor nor supplements..I agree with Lazy man said about FDA about selenium here you are FDA never agreed on selenium..people should not quote from FDA something untrue..as that is misleading..is your family or friend/s one of youngevity distributor????????? it seems you are very bias toward youngevity…? I am unbias…i think Dr Glidden advice are fantastic…but he should also say that supplements can be bought from any organic health store ”NOT JUST FROM YOUNGEVITY”
quote from fda about selenium
”Selenium may reduce the risk of prostate cancer. Scientific evidence concerning this claim is inconclusive. Based on its review, FDA does not agree that selenium may reduce the risk of prostate cancer.”
I’m sorry but you’re just going random shit you see on the internet, unless you’ve been in the shoes of people who needed serious medical help, you’ll never know how much of a miracle this company was. My mother was in a car crash in 2007, from then on she had serious medical problems, and basically lacked an immune system, it was until she took these products that she actually became healthy. Every product we have used has worked. I have weight problems because of my thyroid, literally nothing worked to help me lose weight. Until we came across youngevity. Until you use the damn products, you have no where to talk. My mother has health problems through the roof, and once we came across youngevity she finally is becoming healthy. And yeah they sound ‘too good to be true’ we have gone through a whole year of research before we actually tried the products.
Sir, there have been multiple people we have talked to who basically had no hope for their medical health, until they had youngevity. My mother was good as dead, nothing worked, I was counting maybe one more year, two? With my mother. This is literally a miracle, and I disagree with everything you say.
So you are essentially saying that Youngevity products are medical cures… despite the company not making the claim and there not being a documented cases in history of it?
Hi Syd,
What I like to know is, why it is work on you and your mother? Are you or your family/friend a part of distributor have you ever try another supplement/s from other organic health shop/s? if it is and Dr Wallach would really like to help people why doesn’t he like to do clinical trial as he has lots of patients and made huge amount of monies, surely if he is confident enough about his products work he won’t have any objection to documented and proved it that his words can be relied upon means will really help human..so that is what i can’t understand if it is not for his benefit at least think for other patients who really need it, think about it, If I know my company produce products that definately can safe people life and also bring financial opportunity for my self and my team I will definately prove it to the world to the pharmaceutical to the scientists, to the MDS by doing clnical trials prove it to the world that the pharma the MDs the fdA were wrong instead of keep condemning all the doctors the new technology on the media to the alex jones and dr glidden media which majority were so unprofessional and so unethical..we should all to be thank full that at least we have hospital..anti bio-tic..anti virus..etc…can you imagine without this pharma industries a long time ago we were dying because of TBC, Cholera, Hepatitis A/B, instead of being open minded and think thoroughly appreciate for the time taken by lazy man for researching this issue so that people can view other companies..you just shoot and sending such unethical message..like uneducated person… there are a view supplements that need to be taken by people if they do not eat properly at the first place, as God have given us a proper healthy perfect body and all of our organ should function properly..but we are our worse enemies..accident cause by itself due to lack of concentration..lack of sleep..tiredness..so all and all its our responsibility..there are other organic health shop that provide a similar product cost less than other MLM companies due to a less administration/marketing/paying the health care professionals fee..if that product is work for some than is good..but is just strange that there is never documented and there is never ever clinical trial being proven…for youngevity..testimonial can be done by any one..but is not valid…though..caused some one can be a distributor..by the way..do you think that Jackie collin who just died of cancer would not like to buy youngevity to stop from dying/..she has all the monies in the world,steve Jobs and others…..surely they heard of youngevity products..why won’t they used it..because they know the products do not work?
Youngevity products could cure hospitals would use them is totally untrue. Pharmaceutical companies make billions and supplements aren’t drugs.
Yes, but Youngevity could charge even more money and people would pay for it if it actually worked. Trust me, a cure for cancer is worth more than several trillion dollars.
fsfwer said: “Youngevity products could cure hospitals would use them is totally untrue. Pharmaceutical companies make billions and supplements aren’t drugs.”
A moronic comment! Any formulation intended to cure, treat, prevent, or mitigate the symptoms of a disease is, by definition, a drug according to U.S. law.
Youngevity’s products are being fraudulently marketed as drugs by snakeoil salesman and pyramid schemers.
I tried the products for over a year. Made absolutely no difference to my health. Afterwards my Dr. said that if I was worried about vitamin deficiencies (which there was no evidence of) to take a one a day, or a Flintstones vitamin. The money I save now I spend on better/healthier food, which DOES make me feel better. As an economists and an amateur physicist I take science seriously and never found the lack of evidence to Wallach/Glidden’s claims particularly compelling. However I chose to do the experiment and tried the products for a bit over a year. No substantial or measurable difference in my health was experienced. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, sorry, I didn’t make the rule but that how it works. I don’t blame the Dr’s for trying to make a buck because in the end it’s all supply and demand. As long as there is a demand for snake oil, someone will sell it. Always. Now why select populations continue a demand for these things, who knows..that’s firmly the domain of the psychologist/philosophers.
in commenting to Vogel and Tengu, in my opinion both Dr Wallach et all and the victim who are so vulnerable are to blame but mostly the professional…because they are using their professionalism by being predator and make the most of their opportunity whilst their victim are so vulnerable…, on the other hands all these people who are reading this lazy man post instead of being than full for what his done and being unbiased and be open minded some of them just being so abusive??? at least you both are very open minded and understand and sensible if only these vulnerable like to read and learn they will not waste their money at all pr perhaps is that placebo effect made it work for them..who knows..but it certainly did not work for me either.
Tengu said: “I don’t blame the Dr’s for trying to make a buck because in the end it’s all supply and demand. As long as there is a demand for snake oil, someone will sell it. Always. Now why select populations continue a demand for these things, who knows..that’s firmly the domain of the psychologist/philosophers.”
I disagree in principle with the idea that there is a pre-existing demand for snakeoil, and that lying charlatans like Wallach and Glidden are simply meeting that demand. In fact, they create the demand, and they do it through the exploitation of ignorance and desperation. Trying to profit by offering false hope to people who are ailing and afraid is among the lowest forms of fraud. The blame should be placed squarely where it belongs — on the perpetrators, not the victims.
Dr.Wallach is brilliant. Yes, he’s cynical–with good reason.
How did he discover nutrition heals? In his veterinary practice! Read his books. Our bodies need 90 essential nutrients, and he offers them in his products–which by the way, no one is forced to take. I know of no other product that offers all 90 of the essential nutrients. We’re all different. I have malabsorption issues due to fructose intolerance. I don’t sell Youngevity products, but take them because they truly help me. I was able to get off 5 prescription drugs!
I think the brilliant people who went to top medical schools like Harvard’s would disagree with your assessment of Wallach. As I pointed out, many have stated that he invented diseases that don’t exist (pig Alzheimer’s if I recall).
It’s funny, if you follow Yevo there are only 43 essential nutrients. Seems like companies like to through the word “essential” around as a marketing term.
I highly recommend you visit a real doctor before going off of prescription drugs for vitamins. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Dear Susan,
I can help but reading your post, didn’t youngevity phamplets/leaflets advise you not to stop any medication before consulting with your doctor, make sure that you are reading the small print out….I am sure even if you are taking any product from youngevity you have to consult any health care professional because the youngevity will not responsible if you have any side effect after taking their product?
Good grief–why do you assume I took myself off medications? My heart doctor took me off my heart medicine. I didn’t ask–he just told me there was no reason for me to be on it any longer. I’d been on thyroid meds for 15 years, and my doctor said my thyroid had normalized. And so on. The only thing that had changed was taking the Youngevity products.
Good grief Susan your comment was, “I was able to get off 5 prescription drugs!” If your heart doctor thinks that Youngevity products are a substitute for those medications, let’s get him to state it on record.
Please give us his information so we can follow up on this potential medical breakthrough.
My cardiologist took me off 2 heart medications because he felt I no longer needed them. My endocrinologist took me off synthroid because my TSH had normalized. My pulmonologist took me off 2 inhalers because my asthma was no longer an issue. My dentist asked what I was doing differently because my peridontal disease was so much improved. And my scheduled shoulder surgery was cancelled because my adhesive capsilitis went away by itself shortly after I began taking the products. I certainly wouldn’t take prescriptions that my doctor says are unnecessary. No, I didn’t work with my doctors regarding Youngevity. So perhaps it’s all coincidence that so many of my ailments disappeared!
HI SUSAN,
what product of youngevity did you take?, so are you telling us that all your doctors who have been treating so many years basically useless until in few months you found youngevity straight away cured you? LOL why don’t you advertise it..i bet lots of millionaires will be your customers and you will be billionaires soon then you will be able to help patient who needed help and build hospitals helping lots and lots of patients curing the diseases as yours —GOD LUCK TO IT…JUST WONDERING WHY STEVE JOBS HAVE TO DIE AND OTHER CELEBRETIES KNOWING YOU HAQVE GOT DR WALLACH???????
well Susan, the reason why you need not taking the medicine anymore is due to your cardiologist has been looking after you for so many years and treating and cured you, coincidentally you are taking youngevity, so without your medical doctor God know what will happen to you, it is good to have open minded, i do not think in today world you can survive without any medication, any one who are eating properly do not need to buy any supplement, if they do not need properly they can buy vitamin (a specific vitamin that can be bought from any health care product- not necessary from youngevity) what lazy man try to explaining here is vitamin or supplement can be bought from any good/reputable health care suppliers not necessarily from youngevity which is MLM which cost triple or could be more and have not have clinical trial…I think we ought to be thankful and be open minded, and if it is work for you that is great..but it could be placebo effect..nevertheless..you should not forget to thank your MD who have been looking after you for so many years..who knows without his/her help you might be worse..perhaps because of his/her help you are now recovering and youngevity have a placebo effect or boosting your thyroid you never know but what ever your doctor giving you have been tested and safe and have been on clinical trial either in vivo on in vitro eitherwise FDA will not let the doctors to prescribed it to you…
I’ve bounced back and forth on this, but I’m leaning towards Youngevity. I heard about them while listening to Coast to Coast AM, where they promote these products frequently and have Wallach or another representative on every month. I’m a new customer, not a distributor or anything.
I’ve tried some of their products for about two months now, and the biggest change I’ve noticed is that I’m not nearly as hungry as I used to be. I didn’t take this product because of any specific health problem, I just figured I wasn’t getting everything I should be getting in my regular diet and so I figured ‘why not?’ I’ve lost 10-15 lbs since then (without trying), but at the same time I’ve found that I have more energy than before (I’m 32 and work two jobs, with a 36 hr Mon/Tue “weekend”). Obviously I still need to eat but I don’t crave the junk food and easy meals that I used to- especially sugar (and sodas), so that has been mostly eliminated from my diet (and that stuff is TOXIC to the body). I do “supplement the supplement” with a daily vitamin (Centrum, One-a-Day, etc), so I’ve been stretching out the use of their all-purpose Tangy Tangerine (which I mix in a water bottle and nurse during the workday)- but it is worth noting that this product has more packed in it than those more common products (notably a greater concentration in vitamins and minerals plus amino acids, probiotics, free radicals, glucosamine, co q-10, and MSM). $20 at the grocery store for a month supply of good stuff but not everything that never seemed to make much of a difference anyway, or $50 for a month supply of pretty much everything that seems to be saving me a fair amount of money on fast food and unnecessary meals… that seems to be the market for me.
Nothing is a magic pill, but it does seem that science is leaning more and more towards what Wallach has been preaching — especially considering epigenetics, or the understanding that our genes change with our habits, diet, environment, etc, and so therefore our bodies can adapt more than we may have believed to this point. It makes perfect sense that if someone with a poor diet and poor environment and who developed a chronic disease then decided to remove what was toxic and introduce what was good for them that they might be able to reverse that disease. That is what I hear when I listen to other radio programs on NPR like “The People’s Pharmacy”, who often have guests who were trained at top medical schools and have extensive experience, or “On Your Health” with Dr. Zorba Paster (I have a lot of time to listen to the radio)… so it’s not just about what Youngevity claims. And I have never heard these physicians not encourage people to make sure they are getting their recommended doses of vitamins and minerals and amino acids and probiotics (gut health has been a big medical revelation as well).
So ultimately to me the question is- if you believe there is a benefit to ensuring a full supply of vitamins/nutrients/good stuff in your diet, and if you believe that Youngevity itself is safe and reputable- as there are other supplemental companies that haven’t been, and I doubt that Wallach would be putting himself on a national radio program every month where he takes live calls from people all over the country if he was involved in shady practices (not to mention, Youngevity has an A+ BBB rating since 1999)- then what is so damn wrong with Youngevity? And where is the scam? Say what you will about MLM practices, but it’s still an effective way to spread a product on the grassroots level- and if that product is good enough, then it will not only last but also be profitable for driven sales reps who believe in the product. Youngevity has lasted, and seems to be growing in converts.
I’ll take some of the “evidence” presented here against Youngevity with a grain of salt, too, seeing how much money is in it these days for insurance companies to keep patients seeing their physicians, for whatever the reason. There’s no shortage of stories of people being put on any number of medications they really don’t need (and sometimes only to counter-act the side effects of other medications), but yet there is plenty of shortage of stories of physicians advising their patients on the correct diets and habits and environments for them and instead prescribing more fundamental changes to their lives. Again I hear physicians themselves admit on NPR programs that their own training teaches them not to seek out the underlying causes of any issue but rather to treat the primary issue that the patient is presenting, and that they often have incentives to push medications on patients as well as a demand to move patients through their practice with less and less individual attention in order to rack up those billable insurance hours and big pharma products. It’s the net effect of a profit-driven health care system, and I’ll argue that the monetary interest of Youngevity pushing their claims pales in comparison to that of insurance companies which would likely lose money/”customers” if more of them took products like these. And I would argue that many “charities” and “interest groups” that sometimes drive these studies have skin in the game, too (many of which are now run by business insiders, not industry professionals).. what does it mean, for example, when Jerry Lewis is pushed out of the MDA for apparently arguing Wallach’s cause? Or for that matter, how much of your dollar that went to the ACS because you were inspired by football players wearing pink actually goes into fighting cancer? Why should we believe anything that suggests that vitamins and minerals might actually be “harmful” to the body, or “don’t work”, or that all the breast cancer that is over-diagnosed in this country was decided at inception and there’s nothing you can do about it but chemo/surgery, or that you need a concoction of medications in order to live without ever taking a closer look at diet and habits and environment and considering how the way you are already living is effecting your body on the cellular level? When there are less than a handful of national health insurance companies which now have a governmental mandate to charge you whatever they feel like they need to in order to deal with your complaints? When there’s that much interest for so few people in keeping things status quo? C’mon, man.
So what does it mean to you for this product to “work”? Because if your body already works as it should, well.. who’s to know? But if you take one Youngevity product to magically cure you of some chronic ailment tomorrow without changing anything else in your life, my guess is no. My experience, as short as it has been – and argue the placebo effect if you want, but I believe the growing evidence that is behind it – is that these products give you all the basic stuff that your body needs to not only function WELL but also to help you cut the crap from your diet (and therefore hopefully your habits and your environment and your life as well). Because it’s more than just what you put in your body- and that is true if you expect anything to change from pharmaceuticals or preventative surgery or regular checkups and tests from your good doctor as well. So ignore your Dr. because of a guy like Wallach? No. But take your health into your own hands with products like Wallach’s and see what your Doc says later? Well, why the heck not?
Good luck, and Peace.
Hi Michael, I like to comment on your post to Lazy Man, I feel that you should be open minded?, I think you try to shoot the messenger for trying to educate people- when I read Lazy Man message I THANKED that some one spend the time to research about it..at least I can compare youngevity products vs others that also have reputation and organic but giving you very cost effective (without damaging your bank account – and exactly giving the same result) only they do not hire some one like Dr Glidden/Alex Jones BTW youngevity is Dr Wallach’s company anyway – yes, some of Dr walach information are very useful such as; not to eat gluten, fried food, junk food, fatty food, welldone meat, process food, meat with nitrate..people who know about diet – must know exactly anyway – its common sense..BUT YOU CAN’T BE RECOVERING if you take any supplement from youngevity but you keep carry on eating junk food not changing your life style..that is exactly what your doctor said as well…drug (pharma) is only there to help you to suppress for temporary..your doctor ask you to change your life style while giving you drug to help you to control your i.e BP/cholesterol however you must change your life style such as: stop eating junk, anything with gluten, process food, eating junk, do exercise, reducing smoking, alchohol…, then in certain time you are able to stop takiing your drug…there is side effect using the drug..but it is all in the leaflet..only if you using for a long period of time..but this drug..have been on the clinical trial..either in vivo or in vitro..it is safe..as youngevity/other’vitamin product have never been on the clinical trial ..hence..on their leaflets it stated you have to consult with your doctor when/before taking them???? (WHY…?)if something happen to you..who would be responsible for that side effect? would you be able to sue Dr wallach or other manufaturer? at least with the drug you will be able to sue the pharmaceutical company who producing that product??? so your doctor must advise you first of all to change your life style, doing exercise etc..etc.. drug is only help you temporary, if you take the doctor advise you will be recover..or IF YOU CHANGE YOUR LIFE STYLE AT THE FIRST PLACE..YOU NEED NOT BUY ANY YOUNGEVITY/VITAMIN NOR GO TO THE DOCTOR ANYWAY……
Anna:
Hi Michael, I like to comment on your post to Lazy Man, I feel that you should be open minded?
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Hi, Anna. I’m actually one of the most open people you could know. I think that openness is why I was willing to try these products. What I don’t think is open-minded is the belief that the medical profession itself isn’t evolving, or that we should simply have a blind acceptance to everything our M.D.’s, trained in an industry that is financed by a decreasing number of (now government-backed) insurance companies, tell us.
Anna:
I think you try to shoot the messenger for trying to educate people- when I read Lazy Man message I THANKED that some one spend the time to research about it..
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It’s not my job to educate anyone here- I simply left a message stating my own opinion and experience. I agree, it is good that someone took the time to research all this.. but I thought the research here was presented from the start in a biased and negative light, so to what extent should personal experience be a factor in my opinion? There are almost 1100 responses here to this post and many of them are customers who have had positive experiences with these products in the face of all the negative that only a few here continue to throw dirt on (like Vogel, whose rude and vulgar response to my post was out of line… where’s the open mindedness there?).
Anna:
at least I can compare youngevity products vs others that also have reputation and organic but giving you very cost effective (without damaging your bank account – and exactly giving the same result) only they do not hire some one like Dr Glidden/Alex Jones BTW youngevity is Dr Wallach’s company anyway –
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Absolutely; compare and find what’s good for you. From what I have looked at, Youngevity products have minerals, amino acids, probiotics, and other things that aren’t found in the common daily vitamin products at my local grocer, and I have not been convinced that Youngevity products are any more “dangerous” than any other product on the market (if not safer, given it’s visibility on C2C and 15+ years of business).
Anna:
yes, some of Dr walach information are very useful such as; not to eat gluten, fried food, junk food, fatty food, welldone meat, process food, meat with nitrate..people who know about diet – must know exactly anyway – its common sense..
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Agreed, and what I was saying was that Youngevity products have helped me kick a lot of that from my diet.
Anna:
BUT YOU CAN’T BE RECOVERING if you take any supplement from youngevity but you keep carry on eating junk food not changing your life style..that is exactly what your doctor said as well…
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Agreed again, and also what I was saying– one thing is not the answer, but changing one bad habit (like replacing an unhealthy diet with a supplemental program) can be a catalyst to change more unhealthy habits.
Anna:
drug (pharma) is only there to help you to suppress for temporary..your doctor ask you to change your life style while giving you drug to help you to control your i.e BP/cholesterol however you must change your life style such as: stop eating junk, anything with gluten, process food, eating junk, do exercise, reducing smoking, alchohol…, then in certain time you are able to stop takiing your drug…
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I don’t believe for a second that pharmaceuticals are utilized today as a “temporary” tool- that has not been my experience and it certainly doesn’t seem to be the experience of others. As I said, I have heard M.D.’s admit on health-related NPR programs that there are incentives for many Dr’s to write prescriptions because of hour our medical insurance system works — not in that they are handing out Rx’s for no reason, but that they can basically respond to any problem a patient is presenting with a Rx, and so many of them do. Some Dr’s go the extra mile with their patients and work out these basic life changes we’re talking about here as a way to address these medical problems first, but not a lot as most are under pressure to move patients through their practices and simply respond to many medical issues with an Rx. I can tell you of several people I know, who are my age and are downing Adderall every day because they think they need to and are able to because they have an Rx and a diagnosis of ADHD. Pharmaceuticals are TOXIC to the digestive system, and yet there are M.D.’s writing Rx’s on-top of Rx’s just to counter-act the side-effects of the first Rx… just visit your local elder-care center and ask a random nurse how much medication a random resident is taking and why they’re taking it. I don’t believe that pills/prescriptions first and lifestyle/diet second is how our health care system should function, but yet that is what I have seen it devolve into over the past 20 years or so.
Anna:
there is side effect using the drug..but it is all in the leaflet..only if you using for a long period of time..but this drug..have been on the clinical trial..either in vivo or in vitro..it is safe..as youngevity/other’vitamin product have never been on the clinical trial
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Believe it or not but just because a drug has had clinical trials and is on the market does not make it safe. Nor does it mean that it’s necessarily appropriate for you to take, even if its purpose is to treat your ailment. If a Dr tells me to take a pill in order for my body to function and survive, well then okay- I’ll believe him and do it… but if a Dr tells me to take a pill in order to “reduce my risk” of something happening that would likely not happen if I simply cut a nasty habit, then no, I’m probably not going to do it and just instead change the habit. Do you know how many people just don’t change the habit and instead continue on taking the pills?
Anna:
..hence..on their leaflets it stated you have to consult with your doctor when/before taking them???? (WHY…?)
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Because Youngevity is not working with your Dr. You are. There are thousands of products on the shelves that say the same thing… should we just avoid all of them, at least until we clear it with the good doc?
Anna:
if something happen to you..who would be responsible for that side effect? would you be able to sue Dr wallach or other manufaturer?
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First, I’ve only had “side effects” with pharmaceuticals. The only “side effect” I’ve had with Youngevity products has been feeling better, more energetic, and generally healthier. Second, if there was (let’s say) a bad batch of Youngevity products that made a bunch of people sick– then yes, you can sue the manufacturer.
Anna:
at least with the drug you will be able to sue the pharmaceutical company who producing that product???
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Hah! Good luck with that!! Do you know how much money big pharma has, and how much of it they pour into fighting lawsuits just like what you’re referring to here??? There are no shortage of suits and settlements for adverse drug effects on Big Pharma’s record…. how many are there on Youngevity’s?
Anna:
so your doctor must advise you first of all to change your life style, doing exercise etc..etc.. drug is only help you temporary, if you take the doctor advise you will be recover..
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Yes, the Dr’s “advise” will be “you should really stop eating so much McDonalds”, and then he’ll say “now here’s your next prescription for Warfarin”, which you’ll just keep on taking until your next heart attack while you may or may not decide to eat less McD’s (or have made healthier diet choices in return). Welcome to the American health care system.
Anna:
or IF YOU CHANGE YOUR LIFE STYLE AT THE FIRST PLACE..YOU NEED NOT BUY ANY YOUNGEVITY/VITAMIN NOR GO TO THE DOCTOR ANYWAY……
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Well yes, that was what I was saying. Epigenetics is showing how resilient and curable our bodies are WITHOUT pharmaceuticals. Making sure your cells are getting all the nutrients they need to function well is why people take Youngevity/dietary supplemental products. Ergo, these products are A PART OF that choice of a healthy lifestyle.
Kat said: “Wow DMD_Bert you sound as if you are settling. And what you are settling for isn’t good either. It isn’t positive, nor is it the answer. It will not lead to the freedom that God intended for you to live, a healed and blessed life. I pray that you will find the real truth that isn’t on this website.”
He’s not settling. He has educated himself to the point where he feels he can easily make an informed choice to not look to Youngevity’s snakeoil garbage as a remedy for muscular dystrophy. There’s no “real truth” anywhere else that would support the use of Wallach’s bogus BS for muscular dystrophy; certainly not in the bible either – quite the opposite in fact.
Kat said: “You cannot have negative thoughts about yourself and not become a negative person, because ultimately your thoughts about yourself become your greatest enemy.”
WTF does that have to do with scammers illegally preying on people by trying to sell them Wallach’s pyramid scheme snakeoil as miracle cure? God surely hates Wallach and everything for which he and his moronic minions stand.
Kat said: “SO YES that’s a much better answer for Bert then the negative rubbish you’ve said because he sounds like he haves no hope and has given up because he listens to you.”
Lazy Man gave sound advice. What you gave in reply was incoherent off-topic blasphemous word vomit.
Kat said: “That message was for Bert because you have discouraged him with your negative hopeless message. You really are an angry person that needs a new revelation about why you think so highly of yourself, you know all the answers and the Lord does not. The good part is you can’t accuse me of being a distributor now can you LOL.”
He didn’t discourage Bert from doing anything other than wasting his time and money with pyramid scheme snakeoil sold by charlatans. I have little doubt that this would please the Lord greatly.
Why can’t we accuse you of being a distributor? Is there any other plausible explanation as to why you would get so huffy and rush to defend fraud artists and the exploitation of people with serious diseases (not to mention that you did so through the blasphemous invocation of the Lord’s name in vain)?
Michael said: I’ve tried some of their products for about two months now, and the biggest change I’ve noticed is that I’m not nearly as hungry as I used to be….I’ve lost 10-15 lbs since then (without trying)…”
Loss of appetite and unexplained weight loss are serious adverse events. An extremely strong argument against using the products.
Michael said: “I do “supplement the supplement” with a daily vitamin (Centrum, One-a-Day, etc)…”
You are probably doing far more harm than good by mega-dosing yourself with supplements in this manner.
Michael said: “…$50 for a month supply of pretty much everything that seems to be saving me a fair amount of money on fast food and unnecessary meals…”
Youngevity’s supplements don’t provide calories; ergo, they cannot replace food. Silly! Not eating fast food is a choice that has absolutely nothing to do with the whether or not you take supplements. Deciding to not eat bacon cheeseburgers with fries and a shake would cost you nothing.
Michael said: “Nothing is a magic pill, but it does seem that science is leaning more and more towards what Wallach has been preaching…”
Absolutely ridiculous. Wallach is a disgraceful self-serving quack. There is nothing even remotely scientific about what he preaches. He uses the veneer of science to con rubes.
Michael said: “It makes perfect sense that if someone with a poor diet and poor environment and who developed a chronic disease then decided to remove what was toxic and introduce what was good for them that they might be able to reverse that disease.”
Maybe that makes sense to a child or a fool, but there’s no scientific basis for it. Removing a carcinogen won’t reverse cancer. Cutting back on fatty foods won’t reverse atherosclerosis. Minimizing exposure to Hep C virus won’t cure Hep C. Many chronic diseases don’t even have a thing to do with exposure to toxins. And do you not realize that Tangy Tangerine contains toxins like lead, arsenic, mercury, and aluminum?
Leave medicine to doctors; don’t try to oversimplify the complexities of medicine using “commonsense” or you might inadvertently injure yourself.
Michael said: “So ultimately to me the question is- if you believe there is a benefit to ensuring a full supply of vitamins/nutrients/good stuff in your diet, and if you believe that Youngevity itself is safe and reputable- as there are other supplemental companies that haven’t been, and I doubt that Wallach would be putting himself on a national radio program every month where he takes live calls from people all over the country if he was involved in shady practices (not to mention, Youngevity has an A+ BBB rating since 1999)- then what is so damn wrong with Youngevity? And where is the scam?”
Wow, that’s a very long-winded leading question. It’s a scientific fact that there is benefit to having nutrients in one’s diet – it’s an obvious truism, not a revelation. Key word is “diet” – meaning food, not some ridiculously craptastic synthetic abomination of a supplement like Tangy Tangerine. Secondly, there is no reason to think that Youngevity supplements are safe (quite the opposite), and they are the antithesis of reputable. Wallach goes on idiotic whacko AM radio shows because he’s a snakeoil salesman and a charlatan. Third, BBB ratings are corrupt and worthless – do some research. Lastly, what’s wrong with Youngevity supplements is that they are overpriced snakeoil garbage sold by lying jackasses who try to convince stupid/naïve/greedy people that they cure diseases. Pretty damn obvious.
Michael said: “Say what you will about MLM practices, but it’s still an effective way to spread a product on the grassroots level- and if that product is good enough, then it will not only last but also be profitable for driven sales reps who believe in the product. Youngevity has lasted, and seems to be growing in converts.”
MLM is most definitely not a good way to spread a product. That’s why virtually none of America’s major corporations choose to use it. It’s a business model that is used as a means to an end, and that end is to separate fools from their money using overpriced overhyped near-worthless products as pyramid scheme bait. Youngevity is not growing. Their stock goes nowhere. They generate negative revenue.
Michael said: “I’ll take some of the “evidence” presented here against Youngevity with a grain of salt, too…”
Apparently you took all of it with grain of salt; or more accurately, completely ignored it.
Michael said: “…seeing how much money is in it these days for insurance companies to keep patients seeing their physicians, for whatever the reason…”
Oh for F sake! You go on a page long rant about the evils of medicine and doctors and it has NOTHING to do with Youngevity. I find your intellectual masturbation offensive.
Michael said: “… and I’ll argue that the monetary interest of Youngevity pushing their claims pales in comparison to that of insurance companies…”
Oh, so now you’re playing the moral false equivalency game? Why not just take this absurd rationale to its logical extreme and just say something like “Youngevity is OK because Hitler!” Jackass!
Michael said: “So what does it mean to you for this product to “work”?”
It means absolutely nothing when there’s no context, and yet this kind of stupidly vague claim is exactly what distributors of the product say about it. The way this should play out is that the company and its distributors stick to one consistent set of product claims that can be supported by reliable evidence and that meet the requirements of US law. That doesn’t include any disease treatment/prevention claims, or vague testimonials like “it works”.
Michael said: “But take your health into your own hands with products like Wallach’s and see what your Doc says later? Well, why the heck not?”
A dozen solid reasons leap to mind. You may as well ask us why we shouldn’t burn $50 bills in the fireplace. Taking Youngevity supplements is not “taking your health into your own hands.” It’s burning money and supporting a pernicious pyramid scheme run by lying predatory a-holes who scam the public with fake diseases cures.
Michael said: “I’m a new customer, not a distributor or anything.”
Ha! BS!
VOGEL:
Loss of appetite and unexplained weight loss are serious adverse events. An extremely strong argument against using the products.
—
OK, that’s not what I said. I said, since I’ve started taking this product I have been eating less unhealthy crap and have lost weight from it (hardly seems unexplained). Of course I still eat, I’m just not as hungry throughout the day as I used to be (probably from more normalized blood sugar levels). You ignored the part where I said I’ve been able to cut most sugar from my diet, especially sodas (another likely reason for the HEALTHY weight loss). I certainly give Youngevity credit for HELPING me with that choice.
VOGEL:
You are probably doing far more harm than good by mega-dosing yourself with supplements in this manner.
—
Again, not what I said. I am stretching out the Tangy Tangerine product by taking a Centrum/One-A-Day on the days I either don’t use TT or use a light amount of TT. I don’t do the full “dosage” of TT plus these vitamins. Thank you for sensationalizing that one line.
VOGEL:
Youngevity’s supplements don’t provide calories; ergo, they cannot replace food. Silly! Not eating fast food is a choice that has absolutely nothing to do with the whether or not you take supplements. Deciding to not eat bacon cheeseburgers with fries and a shake would cost you nothing.
—
Again, I did not say “replace food”. I said “unnecessary meals”… SILLY! Not eating crap for food IS a choice, and it has everything to do with whether or not you are giving your body what it needs to take out those cravings. And that is one reason why people take supplements. And no, it’s not so simple to just cut fast food from your diet — not everyone has the money to buy healthy foods, or the time to prepare healthy meals, or even the accessibility to healthy food centers. Nevermind the fact that even the most well-intentioned diets do not guarantee that you are getting everything your body needs from them.
VOGEL:
Absolutely ridiculous. Wallach is a disgraceful self-serving quack. There is nothing even remotely scientific about what he preaches. He uses the veneer of science to con rubes.
—
Epigenetics.
VOGEL:
Maybe that makes sense to a child or a fool, but there’s no scientific basis for it. Removing a carcinogen won’t reverse cancer. Cutting back on fatty foods won’t reverse atherosclerosis. Minimizing exposure to Hep C virus won’t cure Hep C. Many chronic diseases don’t even have a thing to do with exposure to toxins.
—
And yet there is an increasing number of instances where people are curing themselves of cancer and other chronic diseases, all of which seems to coincide with a deeper understanding of our bodies on the cellular level and a realization that we really haven’t known everything we thought we knew to this point and an increase in the practice of these new age “wacko” ideas like dietary supplementation.
VOGEL:
And do you not realize that Tangy Tangerine contains toxins like lead, arsenic, mercury, and aluminum?
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Umm, I realize that responsible labeling of ANY plant-derived product requires a note about possibly containing heavy metals… because it’s pretty inescapable that plants will absorb these things by nature.
You don’t honestly believe that Youngevity is ADDING these things to their products, do you? I mean really… bring on the class-action suits if so many consumers have been harmed by Mr. Wallach…
VOGEL:
Leave medicine to doctors; don’t try to oversimplify the complexities of medicine using “commonsense” or you might inadvertently injure yourself.
—
Right. So instead of educating yourself, just go to your regular checkups, pay your deductibles, pick up your Rx’s, and medicate yourself all the way back to health without ever considering the basics. Because doctors and medicine have never been wrong in the past, or haven’t evolved from centuries of “new age” discoveries, or know everything we’ll ever need to about cellular health?
VOGEL:
Key word is “diet” – meaning food, not some ridiculously craptastic synthetic abomination of a supplement like Tangy Tangerine.
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TT is promoted as a dietary supplement, not as a food replacement. And people take it because they don’t believe that everything our cells need is found in our diets- even the most well-intentioned ones. Do you?
VOGEL:
Secondly, there is no reason to think that Youngevity supplements are safe (quite the opposite), and they are the antithesis of reputable.
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And where are all the people who have been harmed by the product? It’s your belief that they are not a reputable company. My experience has been different.
VOGEL:
Lastly, what’s wrong with Youngevity supplements is that they are overpriced snakeoil garbage sold by lying jackasses who try to convince stupid/naïve/greedy people that they cure diseases. Pretty damn obvious.
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Can’t argue logic with anyone who has that much hatred.
VOGEL:
Michael said: “So what does it mean to you for this product to “work”?”
It means absolutely nothing when there’s no context, and yet this kind of stupidly vague claim is exactly what distributors of the product say about it. The way this should play out is that the company and its distributors stick to one consistent set of product claims that can be supported by reliable evidence and that meet the requirements of US law. That doesn’t include any disease treatment/prevention claims, or vague testimonials like “it works”.
—
Well there are testimonials in this very comment section that are not at all vague. As for specific “claims that can be supported by reliable evidence and that meet the requirements of US law”… are you kidding? Who’s going to finance that project? And for what purpose? They’re not selling any medical promise… they’re selling a fricking dietary supplement. People who take it and say “it works” are no different than people who take zoloft and say “it works”… that is, it’s just a testimonial of an experience with no medical claim.
My point was if you’re going to make the argument that dietary supplements like this “don’t work”, then you’ll have to define what “working” means. In this case, I submit that “working” is perhaps too hard to define because who’s to tell if “working” just means that you’re healthy. And testimonials here have been that people who have been taking these products appear/feel/have been verified by their own M.D. as being healthy. There is no shortage of folks who have taken this product and have seen their body work BETTER… so are they all distributors just trying to sell some product, too?
VOGEL:
Michael said: “I’m a new customer, not a distributor or anything.”
Ha! BS!
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OK, don’t believe me. Like I care.
VOGEL:
You may as well ask us why we shouldn’t burn $50 bills in the fireplace. Taking Youngevity supplements is not “taking your health into your own hands.” It’s burning money and supporting a pernicious pyramid scheme run by lying predatory a-holes who scam the public with fake diseases cures.
—
Well, agree to disagree then. I believe that products like what Youngevity sells provide nutrients that we are often not getting in our diets which help support cellular health and, therefore, a healthier body. I believe that because of what I’m hearing actual M.D.’s talk about as the leading edge of the medical field — chiefly, epigenetics.
VOGEL:
Oh for F sake! You go on a page long rant about the evils of medicine and doctors and it has NOTHING to do with Youngevity. I find your intellectual masturbation offensive.
Oh, so now you’re playing the moral false equivalency game? Why not just take this absurd rationale to its logical extreme and just say something like “Youngevity is OK because Hitler!” Jackass!
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To LAZY MAN: I like your blog. Responses like this to comments like mine (I’m certainly not the only one being treated here like this) make me not want to visit your site anymore. Or at least to not comment again.
I guess one way to get your point across is to shout-down and ridicule anyone whose personal experience doesn’t jive with it?
Michael,
I’m glad you like my blog. Sorry that you don’t like getting challenged by intelligent people commenting. Personal experience in health means absolutely zero due to the placebo effect. Outside of a scientifically-controlled environment, it should not be reported at all.
Intellectually challenging comments are one thing- if I didn’t like it, I wouldn’t have responded. Calling someone a jackass and claiming their words are nothing more than “intellectual masturbation” for simply adding a comment is another. Now I know that you endorse such conduct.
If all of the positive testimonials regarding these products are to be disregarded as the placebo effect while epigenetics/cellular health and the issues of our pervasive profit-driven insurance-run health care system are to be ignored, then agree to disagree is where this ends for me.
Dear vogel,
you should not stop passing comment, as what you are saying ar really factual and will help lots of vulnerable people and supporting Lazzy Man with his blog, look, a friend of mine bought me TT a while ago,unluckily for me, it would not do anything for me!!, I asked lazy Man as well to have a look at ARIIX similar kind of thing , but it seems they are more ethical, I like the way you giving a feed back to Michael and the rest as it is true..if you stop, other vulnerable might become victim…what happen if they are so desperate and have no have enough money..???
You have not done your homework.The FDA knows Wallach well. He sued them, look it up. Glidden is a genius.(just pissed off) Much of what you deny is info published in JAMA or publications like the Journal of Clinical Oncology. You missed this one a mile. I’m not going to educate you here because your IQ can’t handle much. I will say something you can understand though, and it is that you are a fucking idiot.
Craig,
You haven’t mentioned anything new here, which shows I’ve done my homework. Wallach’s ridiculous lawsuit is fairly well covered in the comments here… look it up. Glidden doesn’t seem to know what he’s talking about. There’s one post or video where he’s completely off-base about what a pyramid scheme is… it isn’t on par with the FTC’s guidelines.
I’ll wager that my IQ is higher than Wallach’s or Glidden’s. Here’s a look at my Mensa card.
Michael said: “OK, that’s not what I said. I said, since I’ve started taking this product I have been eating less unhealthy crap and have lost weight from it (hardly seems unexplained).”
Wrong. You said “the biggest change I’ve noticed is that I’m not nearly as hungry as I used to be”, and that you “lost 10-15 lbs since then (without trying)…” Tangy Tangerine is advertised as a nutritional supplement, not a weight loss product. Loss of appetite and unexpected weight loss are adverse events. No getting around it.
Michael said: “Again, not what I said. I am stretching out the Tangy Tangerine product by taking a Centrum/One-A-Day on the days I either don’t use TT or use a light amount of TT. I don’t do the full “dosage” of TT plus these vitamins.”
If that’s the case then, logically, any effects that you may experience could be just as easily attributable to the inexpensive One-A-Day vitamin and not Tangy Tangerine. And if you’re stretching your Tangy Tangerine, then it’s obvious you can’t afford to be wasting your money on snakeoil.
Michael said: “Again, I did not say “replace food”. I said “unnecessary meals”… SILLY! Not eating crap for food IS a choice, and it has everything to do with whether or not you are giving your body what it needs to take out those cravings.”
No, what you said was “$50 for a month supply of pretty much everything that seems to be saving me a fair amount of money on fast food and unnecessary meals…” I pointed out that a nutritional supplement cannot replace food because it lacks calories. That line about “giving your body what it needs” and suggesting that Tangy Tangerine affects food cravings is patent nonsense with no scientific foundation. If it did cause you to lose your appetite then, as I pointed out already, that would be considered an adverse event.
Michael said: “And yet there is an increasing number of instances where people are curing themselves of cancer and other chronic diseases…”
BS! You don’t cure cancer through diet (nor did you even attempt to prove otherwise) and you certainly don’t cure it with Tangy Freakin’ Tangerine (which is what we’re talking about here). The very suggestion is offensive.
Michael said: “Umm, I realize that responsible labeling of ANY plant-derived product requires a note about possibly containing heavy metals… because it’s pretty inescapable that plants will absorb these things by nature. You don’t honestly believe that Youngevity is ADDING these things to their products, do you? I mean really… bring on the class-action suits if so many consumers have been harmed by Mr. Wallach…”
The product does not contain a note saying “possibly containing heavy metals”. The analysis statement for the product indicates that it DOES CONTAIN arsenic, mercury, lead, and other nasty toxic substances. I have seen no parallel with any other supplement in history. It’s not something that should be defended; it’s yet another extremely compelling reason to avoid the supplements altogether. It doesn’t matter whether these toxins are present in the product as a result of being added or not; it only matters that they are present. And there probably is ample justification for a class action, but since I have never taken the product (and never would) I cannot claim to have been harmed and would have no basis to participate in a class action.
Michael said: “Right. So instead of educating yourself, just go to your regular checkups, pay your deductibles, pick up your Rx’s, and medicate yourself all the way back to health without ever considering the basics. Because doctors and medicine have never been wrong in the past”
No, what I was saying is that you lack the intellectual wherewithal to educate yourself about the complexities of medicine. This is clearly reflected in the banality of your threadbare comments and your continued efforts to promote this bogus product as a medicinal agent.
Michael said: “TT is promoted as a dietary supplement, not as a food replacement. And people take it because they don’t believe that everything our cells need is found in our diets- even the most well-intentioned ones. Do you?”
Get real. People take it because it’s used as the admission ticket to participate in a pyramid scheme, and/or because they’ve been lied to by some self-serving ass of a distributor who tells them it will cure their chronic diseases.
Michael said: “And where are all the people who have been harmed by the product? It’s your belief that they are not a reputable company. My experience has been different.”
It’s abundantly clear, based on reams of evidence, that they are a disreputable company. It’s not a question of personal “experience”. By your own admission, Tangy Tangerine caused loss of appetite and unexpected weight loss (adverse events) and it contains toxic heavy metals. Considering the outrageously inflated price, and the worthlessness of the product, financial harm is another consequence.
Michael said: “Can’t argue logic with anyone who has that much hatred.”
I bet you’d feel plenty of animosity if I went sniffing around your sick Grandma trying to sell her bogus snakeoil remedies and rope her into a pyramid scheme, as the Youngevity drones are wont to do.
Michael said: “Well there are testimonials in this very comment section that are not at all vague. As for specific “claims that can be supported by reliable evidence and that meet the requirements of US law”… are you kidding? Who’s going to finance that project? And for what purpose? They’re not selling any medical promise… they’re selling a fricking dietary supplement. People who take it and say “it works” are no different than people who take zoloft and say “it works”… that is, it’s just a testimonial of an experience with no medical claim.”
Wrong. They are all incredibly vague. They are from anonymous sources who provide absolutely no evidence, or even basic details, to support their claims. Nothing could be vaguer. If Youngevity is unwilling to finance efforts to demonstrate that their products have medical benefits then the response is simple; don’t say the products have medical benefits. You can’t have it both ways. Either you do the work and generate the evidence of you say nothing about medical effects. Nobody takes Zoloft and simply says “it works”. Zoloft is marketed with a very explicit set of tangible therapeutic claims that have been validated with stringent scientific evidence. Tangy Tangerine is sold like a snakeoil cure-all by a bunch of disreputable circus clowns.
Michael said: “I submit that “working” is perhaps too hard to define.”
I already submitted that. It’s an impossibly stupid and purposely vague claim, and with no supportive evidence.
Michael said: “And testimonials here have been that people who have been taking these products appear/feel/have been verified by their own M.D. as being healthy.”
Right, and I’m reiterating that these claims are utterly worthless. If one is going to hide behind the authority of their M.D. and claim that they verified some medical benefit of Tangy Tangerine, then the onus is on the claimant to provide supportive evidence, which at a bare minimum would include the doctor’s name. If I said that my MD claimed that Tangy Tangerine was a lethal poison, would you not feel compelled to call BS and at least ask for the MDs name?
Michael said: “OK, don’t believe me. Like I care.”
No, I don’t believe that you’re not financially motivated, and you obviously care a lot or you wouldn’t be penning these long-winded fan letters about your love for Tangy Tangerine.
Michael said: “Responses like this to comments like mine (I’m certainly not the only one being treated here like this) make me not want to visit your site anymore. Or at least to not comment again. I guess one way to get your point across is to shout-down and ridicule anyone whose personal experience doesn’t jive (sic) with it?”
The word is jibe, not “jive”. There are multiple lines of evidence and logic all of which strongly support the contention that Youngevity’s products are worthless overpriced shit illegally marketed as medicinal agents. You can choose to ignore it all, as you have here, although I don’t know why anyone would unless they are incredibly dense or stand to gain financially by plugging this snakeoil. If you don’t want to be ridiculed, don’t say things that are ridiculous. No one is chasing you away, but if you come here and say dumb shit, you own it, and if you don’t like being embarrassed by the responses, stop saying dumb shit.
Vogel said:
Wrong. You said “the biggest change I’ve noticed is that I’m not nearly as hungry as I used to be”, and that you “lost 10-15 lbs since then (without trying)…” Tangy Tangerine is advertised as a nutritional supplement, not a weight loss product. Loss of appetite and unexpected weight loss are adverse events. No getting around it.
—
Let me rephrase: I used to be hungry all day and crave sugar and junk food constantly. Within just a couple weeks of using TT those cravings disappeared and I was only hungry for a more normal two or three meals a day rather than like six or seven as before. And when you cut that crap from your diet, guess what happens? That’s right, weight-loss. So, something must have normalized my blood-sugar levels.. either that or I am experiencing one heck of a placebo effect.
Vogel said:
If that’s the case then, logically, any effects that you may experience could be just as easily attributable to the inexpensive One-A-Day vitamin and not Tangy Tangerine. And if you’re stretching your Tangy Tangerine, then it’s obvious you can’t afford to be wasting your money on snakeoil.
—
Well I’m frugal in general (I’m a couponer), and I consider TT a premium product, and as I mentioned before I work two jobs so sure- I’m not ‘raking it in’ or whatever. BUT I have stopped buying sodas at work (which was over $10/week) and I have pretty much stopped going to the fastfood joints near my work for lunch (not a lot of choices, unless I pack my own and in order to do that I need to find the time to shop and prepare the meals.. anyway I figure that’s another $30/week saved on unhealthy calories). So that alone is over $170 this past month that I have saved by changing my dietary habits, and I give the credit to TT for making it easy. I’ve used those daily vitamins in the past (thus why I have the bottles to stretch out the TT to begin with), but I was never able to kick my soda habit by taking One-A-Day’s.
Vogel said:
No, what you said was “$50 for a month supply of pretty much everything that seems to be saving me a fair amount of money on fast food and unnecessary meals…” I pointed out that a nutritional supplement cannot replace food because it lacks calories. That line about “giving your body what it needs” and suggesting that Tangy Tangerine affects food cravings is patent nonsense with no scientific foundation. If it did cause you to lose your appetite then, as I pointed out already, that would be considered an adverse event.
—
You got me- I said “pretty much everything” and you read “replace food”. TT does not cause a loss of appetite, it caused me to lose my all-day-long cravings for crappy food. So you’re telling me that blood-sugar regulation, and therefore appetite regulation, is an “adverse effect” of TT? News to me.
Vogel said:
BS! You don’t cure cancer through diet (nor did you even attempt to prove otherwise) and you certainly don’t cure it with Tangy Freakin’ Tangerine (which is what we’re talking about here). The very suggestion is offensive.
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I didn’t say you cure cancer through diet. I said EPIGENETICS is showing why people “cure themselves” of cancer/chronic diseases. EPIGENETICS has been proving that our bodies are elastic, and that genetic expression can be turned on/off with positive/negative environmental factors on the cellular level. Our diet is just one piece of that, and people aren’t getting everything our cells need to remain healthy in the modern diet/lifestyle in their diets.
Vogel said:
The product does not contain a note saying “possibly containing heavy metals”. The analysis statement for the product indicates that it DOES CONTAIN arsenic, mercury, lead, and other nasty toxic substances. I have seen no parallel with any other supplement in history. It’s not something that should be defended; it’s yet another extremely compelling reason to avoid the supplements altogether. It doesn’t matter whether these toxins are present in the product as a result of being added or not; it only matters that they are present. And there probably is ample justification for a class action, but since I have never taken the product (and never would) I cannot claim to have been harmed and would have no basis to participate in a class action.
—
Well if there is “ample justification” for a class action then let those who wish to make one read this blog and comments section and do it then. Until that happens, I haven’t been seeing anyone claiming these products caused harm on them. The worst I’ve seen people say was that it ‘didn’t do anything’ or gave them a stomach-ache or something.
EVERYTHING that comes from the ground has trace amounts of these metals. We can’t avoid it; our body’s ability to pass them through us unharmed depends on how healthy we are. Should I stop buying fruits and veggies at my grocery store, too, because everything in there has trace amounts of these metals. Is there an analysis/comparison of a tub of TT versus commonplace fruits and veggies from various grocery stores?
Vogel said:
No, what I was saying is that you lack the intellectual wherewithal to educate yourself about the complexities of medicine. This is clearly reflected in the banality of your threadbare comments and your continued efforts to promote this bogus product as a medicinal agent.
—
I’m not promoting this product as a medical agent. But doesn’t you saying that I am kinda do the job anyway?
Personal experience is a powerful thing, and your pretentious and insulting demeanor isn’t winning me over no matter how educated you might be. I watched my dad mindlessly take statins after a heart attack while failing in attempt after attempt to change his poor diet/lifestyle habits until he died from congestive heart failure eight years later. In the two months I’ve been using TT I’ve been able to kick a 15-plus year soda habit that I haven’t been able to shake despite several attempts over the years. That’s one heck of a placebo…
Vogel said:
Get real. People take it because it’s used as the admission ticket to participate in a pyramid scheme, and/or because they’ve been lied to by some self-serving ass of a distributor who tells them it will cure their chronic diseases.
—
You didn’t answer the question you quoted — which was whether you think that we are getting everything our cells need through our diets (even the most well-intentioned ones). So everyone here who has posted a comment about using TT is either a distributor or some dumbass who was lied into taking it? And everyone here and elsewhere who has claimed some health improvement while using TT as a dietary supplement is either lying or a clueless drone on a placebo? You sure know how to win someone over, calling them names and flinging put-downs like monkey-poo.
Vogel said:
It’s abundantly clear, based on reams of evidence, that they are a disreputable company. It’s not a question of personal “experience”. By your own admission, Tangy Tangerine caused loss of appetite and unexpected weight loss (adverse events) and it contains toxic heavy metals. Considering the outrageously inflated price, and the worthlessness of the product, financial harm is another consequence.
—
You must make a lot of friends, what with your talent of putting words into mouths and such. If they are so disreputable then it shouldn’t be hard for someone/something to take them down. Sooooo………
Michael said “Let me rephrase: I used to be hungry all day and crave sugar and junk food constantly. Within just a couple weeks of using TT those cravings disappeared.”
I don’t know why you’re still beating this dead horse. What you describe, assuming it occurred at all (impuasible ta best) translates to a sudden unanticipated loss of appetite; and that’s an adverse event. A vitamin/mineral supplement should have no effect on appetite. If it were an appetite suppressant, it should be labeled and marketed as such.
Michael said: “BUT I have stopped buying sodas at work (which was over $10/week) and I have pretty much stopped going to the fastfood joints near my work for lunch (not a lot of choices, unless I pack my own and in order to do that I need to find the time to shop and prepare the meals.. anyway I figure that’s another $30/week saved on unhealthy calories). So that alone is over $170 this past month that I have saved by changing my dietary habits, and I give the credit to TT for making it easy.”
You could have accomplished the exact same thing for free by simply changing your dietary habits — no overpriced BS snakeoil supplement or pyramid scheme participation required. It’s obvious from what you’ve described that you cannot afford to being wasting your money on hokum.
Michael said: “So you’re telling me that blood-sugar regulation, and therefore appetite regulation, is an “adverse effect” of TT? News to me.”
TT doesn’t regulate blood sugar levels. The mere suggestion is sheer lunacy.
Michael said: “I didn’t say you cure cancer through diet. I said EPIGENETICS is showing why people “cure themselves” of cancer/chronic diseases.”
Kindly stay on topic. We’re talking about Youngevity here. And bear in mind that people don’t cure themselves of cancer. You referred specifically to dietary supplementation in your little misguided screed about cancer, remember? You said:
“And yet there is an increasing number of instances where people are curing themselves of cancer and other chronic diseases, all of which seems to coincide with…an increase in the practice of these new age “wacko” ideas like dietary supplementation.”
Michael said: “Well if there is “ample justification” for a class action then let those who wish to make one read this blog and comments section and do it then. Until that happens, I haven’t been seeing anyone claiming these products caused harm on them. The worst I’ve seen people say was that it ‘didn’t do anything’ or gave them a stomach-ache or something.”
An asinine comment. You are in no position to guage the incidence of adverse events associated with the product. You denied even being a distributor (an obvious barefaced lie), so how could you possibly know, given that you’re not privy to such information? The issue is not whether a class action is or isn’t justified; it’s that the product contains various toxic heavy metals; a red flag that you have conveniently and repeatedly tried to sidestep.
Michael said: “EVERYTHING that comes from the ground has trace amounts of these metals.”
Colossal BS and a weak deflection! Like I asked before, is there any other dietary product in history that includes toxic heavy metals on their product label? It’s one of many red flag warnings that scream to consumers that they should avoid the product like the plague.
Michael said: “Personal experience is a powerful thing, and your pretentious and insulting demeanor isn’t winning me over no matter how educated you might be.”
When it comes to understanding science and medicine, personal experience is a dangerous thing — fraught with error — because people are pretty much useless at figuring out cause and effect relationships based on personal observation. If you thought for even a second that I was trying to win you over, then you’re even dumber than it appeared at first blush. You’re obviously impervious to simple facts. It would take a blow over the head with a two by four to educate someone so dense.
Michael said: “So everyone here who has posted a comment about using TT is either a distributor or some dumbass who was lied into taking it?”
Now you’re finally starting to catch on. First prescient observation you’ve made to date. Lazyman got more than 6,000 comments on his Monavie article, and many were the exact same type of vague far-fetched miracle testimonials we see with Youngevity and every other similarly scammy supplement MLM company. The developer of Monavie eventually confessed that the product was nothing more than “expensive flavored water”; a fact which we had discerned on our own through careful research and deductive reasoning (the same as was applied to Youngevity). That didn’t stop hundreds of financially motivated a-hole distributors from claiming that it cured everything from cancer to multiple sclerosis. You are no less transparent.
And where is Monavie today? Dead in the water.
Michael said: “And everyone here and elsewhere who has claimed some health improvement while using TT as a dietary supplement is either lying or a clueless drone on a placebo?”
Yes, that sums it up adequately.
Michael said: “You sure know how to win someone over, calling them names and flinging put-downs like monkey-poo.”
Again, you’re deluded if you think I’m trying to win you over. I am merely pointing out the insurmountable faults in your inane arguments to date. You have the intellect of a piece of soggy toast and yet you revel in the sound of your own vapid noise. A classic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.
Michael said “You must make a lot of friends, what with your talent of putting words into mouths and such. If they are so disreputable then it shouldn’t be hard for someone/something to take them down. Sooooo………”
My talents in exposing fraud and fallacious scientific arguments have in fact made me many friends (and no doubt a few enemies too, among those who perpetrate fraud and perpetuate fallacious scientific arguments). And you’re right; it won’t be hard for someone/something to take Youngevity down – so expect it.
Isn’t appetite associated with your bodies craving and need for what it actually needs not what you want?i.e. Nutrients,minerals,vitamins. The things your mind and body need to thrive.Without them you will become ill in one way, or another. To an,e call and all this other monkey poo seems childish. Almost like anyone that doesn’t believe in what you do shall be cast to the netherworld. How dare you not agree with my “opinion”. Sounds Third Reichish to me. Bottom line is…Vitamins,minerals,nutrients in.Only good can come from it. Eating the nutrient deficient,chemical laden ,toxin filled “foods” available to the public is what’s making people sick. If it works for Mr.A and he’s happy with the results. Why disparage him ?To prove and justify your opinion.Loosen up for gods sake!
It’s actually very difficult in this day and age to believe anything any says because you don’t know who is paying them and what their true motive is. But the basic principle remains.Good things in,good things out.
Lee,
The problem is that vitamins and minerals are proven time and again to be a waste of money and even harmful in some cases. Certainly “only good can come from it” is false.
As baseball manager Terry Francona was known for saying, “Anyone can have an opinion, but it takes work to have an informed opinion.” The brightest minds in the world have done the research/work and formed their opinion. You are welcome to have a different opinion, but it would carry a lot more weight with me if you showed your research/work behind like they do.
Mike,
Sorry that your vitamins seemed to prevent you from stringing together coherent sentences. Please see the comment above to Lew about vitamins in general being a waste of money. Then read my analysis about how Youngevity’s in particular are priced crazy high making the situation worse. I had never suggested that vitamins in general were FDA approved, but certain vitamins can get FDA approval for certain health claims such as vitamin D and calcium for osteoporosis.
These are just facts nothing is wrong with youngevity products.There are millions of vitamins that are not FDA approved and Youngevity products have been around over 18 years so if you actually believe this guy who has created this site.That himself has no value and real claims then your as dumb as him.And oh yea he is promoting all his banners and products because he makes money on them and he is trying to build trust in his so called claims toward all these readers and its not working he sucks
Lee said: “Isn’t appetite associated with your bodies craving and need for what it actually needs not what you want?”
No, not really. If you want to know more about appetite, crack open a science book instead of lapping up Wallach’s codswallop.
Lee said: “To an,e (sic) call and all this other monkey poo seems childish.”
No one here has used the word “monkey poo” until now; and you’re right — it is childish.
Lee said: “Almost like anyone that doesn’t believe in what you do shall be cast to the netherworld.”
WTF are you talking about. No one is being “cast to the netherworld”. Everyone gets to post their comments here, no matter how inane (like yours for example).
Lee said: “How dare you not agree with my “opinion”. Sounds Third Reichish to me.”
Someone who can’t come up with a better word than “Third Reichish” to describe something that is, arguably, merely mildly annoying is a flaming idiot. Aside from violating Godwin’s Law in spectacular fashion, you’re kind of overlooking the whole genocide aspect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
“Bottom line is…Vitamins,minerals,nutrients in. Only good can come from it.”
Except…um…no.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/youngevity-scam/comment-page-6/#comment-1230441
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/us/spike-in-harm-to-liver-is-tied-to-dietary-aids.html?_r=1&#sthash.HHRHQNTC.dpuf
Lee said: “Eating the nutrient deficient,chemical laden ,toxin filled “foods” available to the public is what’s making people sick.”
Youngevity doesn’t sell food, so it’s a moot point. They sell supplements, and supplements do not replace food.
Lee said: “If it works for Mr.A and he’s happy with the results. Why disparage him ? To prove and justify your opinion.Loosen up for gods sake!”
No comment by a “Mr. A” has ever been posted here, and therefore, obviously, he was not disparaged. More importantly, there isn’t even a speck of evidence that Tangy Tangerine (or any other Youngevity product) has produced “results”, nor is there any logical reason to think that it would. If you want to pay $50+ for a canister of heavy metal-laced rice powder spiked with a multivitamin, knock yourself out. But don’t tell us that this snakeoil can produce “results” of any kind, when there isn’t a stitch of evidence to back it up. The false promise of easy money (and ignorance) is what inspires people to say outlandishly stupid things about Youngevity products; e.g., that they can cure/prevent cancer, etc.
Lee said: “It’s actually very difficult in this day and age to believe anything any says because you don’t know who is paying them and what their true motive is. But the basic principle remains.Good things in,good things out.”
It doesn’t take a crystal ball to see that someone (i.e., Youngevity) is paying you; or more accurately — if you’re like about 99% of their distributors — not paying you. It’s difficult to know what to believe when you have the intellect of a wet dish towel; not so much when one is capable of applying logic and commonsense.
Mike said: “These are just facts nothing is wrong with youngevity products.”
Clearly, pretty much everything is wrong with Youngevity products. The case against them has been thoroughly and conclusively articulated. You’ve presented no facts at all; not even one.
Mike said: “There are millions of vitamins that are not FDA approved and Youngevity products have been around over 18 years so if you actually believe this guy who has created this site.”
OMG. What was that word salad supposed to mean? There aren’t “millions of vitamins”, FDA-approved or otherwise. In fact, there are 13 vitamins: 4 fat-soluble (A, D, E, and K) and 9 water-soluble (8 B vitamins and vitamin C). Why would you pontificate nonsense in a feckless attempt to disparage the blog host?
Mike said: “That himself has no value and real claims then your as dumb as him.”
Wow. A second-grader could write a more coherent sentence. I almost feel sorry for you; and then I remember that you’re an a-hole!
Mike said: “And oh yea he is promoting all his banners and products because he makes money on them and he is trying to build trust in his so called claims toward all these readers and its not working he sucks.”
OMG! Better grab the gang and jump in the Scooby wagon because it looks like you’ve solved the big mystery. So when you can’t string together a coherent rebuttal, just point to banner ads and call it a day? Guess that puts Lazy Man is good company, since the New York Times does the same thing as he does.
I would like to say I would believe such of a thing like this but I don’t plus the only ones that are really effective Is the ones that are sold by naturopathic doctors that you have to go through them to get It has some could out there could just have filler and not what It really says on the bottle I know cause I tired one of them. It’s all about how everything Is done do you really think the Government Inforce how quality control Is I think not. Heres one reason why I think that: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/03/gnc-target-wal-mart-walgreens-accused-of-selling-fake-herbals/
Now I’m not saying that I get paid to say this for youngevity but In this world things can also be suppress from ever getting out look at cancer for one part of It you think toxic stuff will really heal you? but yet that chemo stuff Is still being used one prime example Is listening to Truth About Cancer: A Global Quest.
Robert, there’s no one suppressing anything helpful in the fight against cancer. No one is rooting for cancer.
Yes, chemotherapy is toxic to cancer. That’s why it is used.
Byron Grimes,
I don’t think Wallach has won any lawsuits against the FDA. It looks like Wallach lost to the FDA. If you have a better official source, please include it.
As I’ve shown before, there’s extensive information on Wallach and quackery.
Where are you getting your information on absorption rates, Grimes? Please cite your sources. Logically it doesn’t seem to make sense that researchers would spend millions of dollars of research on something that isn’t absorbed.
I think just about every dietitian in the world will advocate eating a healthy diet and say that supplements are almost never necessary if one does that. So if Wallach is pitching healthy eating, he’s essentially tell you not to waste money on Youngevity products.
The Clemson study wasn’t the only research. Dr. Wallach has at least 70 peer-reviewed articles, which can be found at pubmed.gov, and has sued and won several cases against the FDA for products’effectiveness. Further, you talked about price. If you buy only fast food, you’re getting food that costs less, right? But a home-made, organic meal is better for you. Why? Ingredients and recipe, right? The vitamins and minerals off the shelf are only about 8-12% absorbable in the body because of fillers, as well as a lot of mineral supplements are derived from the mineral itself. The Beyond Tangy Tangerine has plant-derived minerals which are 90-98% absorbable in the body. This makes them more effective. And where is the evidence that supports that over-doing nutrition can harm you? Also, Dr. Wallach doesn’t promote not eating a healthy diet. He has a list of foods to avoid, and for good reason. It’s hard to be objective and unbiased, and not opinionated when you are reviewing products, so unfortunately, your credibility suffers here, with your personal interjections. If you review something with the mindset of tearing it down, you miss all the facts, you miss the whole message, on any topic.
dear lazyman,
I am glad this was posted , i find this information to be very helpful not only finding out about youngevity but also for another MLM companies who based on buying the product from UTAH
Byron Grimes said: “The Clemson study wasn’t the only research. Dr. Wallach has at least 70 peer-reviewed articles, which can be found at pubmed.gov…”
Why would you resort to misdirection? I have not bothered to count the number of Wallach’s publication, but I do know for certain that he hasn’t published anything in decades, and that none of his publications feature any Youngevity products. So in other words, what you claimed was false; as far as Youngevity is concerned, the “Clemson study” truly is the “only research”, and that’s using the term “research” loosely, since this so-called “study” was never even published.
Byron Grimes said: “If you buy only fast food, you’re getting food that costs less, right? But a home-made, organic meal is better for you. Why? Ingredients and recipe, right?”
Not necessarily. A bowl of organic sugar isn’t better for you than a salad from McDonald’s. There’s no real hard scientific data to show that eating organic is necessarily “better for you”. But regardless, in this analogy, Youngevity would be the worst of the worst kind of fast food imaginable – the kind that’s not even food! And yet they sell it at prices comparable to Kobe beef.
Byron Grimes said: “The vitamins and minerals off the shelf are only about 8-12% absorbable in the body because of fillers…”
If you presented data to back up that claim, I might begin to take you seriously, but you didn’t because no such data exist. Percentage absorption is largely irrelevant. If a B-vitamin, for example, was only 8-12% absorbed, the amount in the formulation would simply be adjusted accordingly to achieve the target dose. Your argument is patently absurd and shows a lack of understanding of even the most basic principles of pharmacology.
Byron Grimes said: “The Beyond Tangy Tangerine has plant-derived minerals which are 90-98% absorbable in the body.”
Again, horseshit illogical claim with no data to back it up. But let’s play devil’s advocate and assume that what you said is true and that the toxins like mercury, lead, and arsenic contained in Youngevity products are fully absorbed; therefore the company’s customers (i.e., pyramid scheme co-conspirators) are being slowly poisoned. The devil is in the details Byron.
Byron Grimes said: “This makes them more effective.”
There isn’t an iota of evidence that they are more effective than anything. You just shoot these fairy tales out of you blowhole and expect anyone to take you seriously?
Byron Grimes said: “And where is the evidence that supports that over-doing nutrition can harm you?”
Um…I presented a hge batch of it just 3 posts ago, dick! Since you’re hard of reading, I’ll post it again. And why use a weasel word like “nutrition” when what you’re really talking about is a “supplement”?
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/youngevity-scam/comment-page-6/#comment-1230441 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/us/spike-in-harm-to-liver-is-tied-to-dietary-aids.html?_r=1&#sthash.HHRHQNTC.dpuf
Byron Grimes said: “Also, Dr. Wallach doesn’t promote not eating a healthy diet.”
Double negative aside, this has zero relevance to Youngevity products. But for the record, it’s plainly evident that Wallach is a dishonest snakeoil peddling quack, so no one need be concerned about anything that he does or does not promote, given that there are so many other sources that are actual credible authorities on nutrition and medicine. Poseur hacks like Wallach and his ilk (e.g., quacks like Peter Glidden) are virtually the last people anyone should listen to.
Byron Grimes said: “It’s hard to be objective and unbiased, and not opinionated when you are reviewing products, so unfortunately, your credibility suffers here, with your personal interjections.”
Unlike the highly credible article written by the blog host, your comments have been completely devoid of both facts and objectivity. Pretty much every word of what you wrote was either false or irrelevant, and you seem to have the cognitive abilities of a toddler. It sets a pitiful example when this is the caliber represented by defenders of the Youngevity snakeoil pyramid scam. You should be embarrassed and ashamed.
Like honest interaction…
They don’t come more honest than Vogel. Or rational. I used to not agree with Vogel about some things, but just changed my mind instead of wasting his time making him explain them to me.
Lazyman, you are who I have my children read for financial advice, but Vogel is who I have them read to teach them about logical arguments. Both of you are damn fine people. Thank you for all the effort.
Youngevity Convention 2015
I just watched a video of the 2015 Youngevity Convention and thought a quick synopsis would be in order. The video features a montage of clips from the various speakers at the event. The highlights are summarized as follows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8fbCG8zShM
[01:34] Theo Ratliff (paid spokesman): Basic BS crediting Youngevity products for enabling his comeback from a hip injury; laughably refers to “the great doctor Joel Wallach.”
[02:40] Marilu Henner (paid spokesperson, former actress) and [03:05] Drew Pearson (former NBAer): Basic mealy-mouthed motivational BS.
[03:47] Keith Halls: Doing a great accidental impression of Les Nessman (with shades of Mister Rogers). ”Holy crud!,” exclaims Halls, “I make millions of dollars in my life from a simple act of kindness – a smile”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLMP38hF74w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5Mz0p0kgc4
[04:57] Denice Chenault: I found this overbearing woman to be the most toxic of all the speakers. Aside from her grating personality and sneering manner of speech, she blatantly misrepresented the reality of MLM with the following inarticulate greed-stoking revenge fantasy.
“So in 2 years this is what’s going to happen to you. [Snort] You’re gonna drive to your work, you’re gonna walk into your boss’s office, you’re gonna sit down; and you’re gonna quit your job. You’re gonna explain that that little ‘PYRAMID SCHEME thing’ that you almost got terminated for last year, you’re now an entrepreneur, and you’re gonna be doing that full-time. And then you’re going to go out to the parking lot, you’re gonna get into your sliver Mercedes that Youngevity has paid — for — and you’re gonna drive home. Oh, no wait, actually, first you’re going to drive to the bank and you’re gonna walk into the bank and you’re gonna deposit your coding bonus. And the lady’s gonna say ‘will that be checking or savings?’ And you’re gonna say ‘meh, I don’t really care, I get these all the time’. Then you’re gonna drive home, you’re gonna get the box off your front porch with your new MK dress, you’re gonna slip it on, and you’re gonna go to the best restaurant in town, and you’re gonna sit down with your 4 closest friends, and you’re gonna plan what your life is gonna look like when you’re MAKING A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR in just a couple a years. How does that sound?”
Listening to this dishonest hag is worse than pouring vinegar on a paper cut. Notice how she doesn’t even attempt to hide the fact that she’s promoting a pyramid scheme.
[06:35] Tom Chenault: Buffoon goes off on an inexplicable rant about the UN for no apparent reason. He’s almost as overbearing and shrill as his wife Denice. They must secretly dream of strangling each other.
[10:12] “Dr.” Corey Gold (actually a dentist): Plays a standard MLM game with the audience which we can call “what would you do with more money”? It goes something like this: “here’s a cool thing that you can do with money, oh and here’s another, and another, etc.…isn’t money great? Yes money sure is great. Am I right? Say amen to money!”
[12:28] “Dr.” Luis Arriaza (actually a chiropractor): Hams it up for the audience with yet another round of shallow brain-liquefying motivational BS.
Sadly, this isn’t Arriaza’s first go around with pyramid schemes. He was previously ripping people off with IXP and 2by2 (Mall Ventures), which sold dial-up internet service and online shopping, until the FTC shut them down in 2005 for running a pyramid scheme (the owners were fined $10.4 million and barred from running pyramid marketing schemes).
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Dr-Luis-Arriaza-Dennis-Wong-IXPnet-2by2net/Orange-California/Dr-Luis-Arriaza-Dennis-Wong-IXPnet-2by2net-ripoff-MLM-SCAM-They-will-steal-your-mo-93095
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Dr-Luis-Arriaza/Brea-California-/Dr-Luis-Arriaza-True2life-2by2net-Ixpnet-This-person-has-burned-most-of-his-friends-in-599777
http://usacomplaints.com/business-finance/79052-ixpnet-2by2net-complaints-reviews.html
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/mall-ventures-inc-dba-2by2net-et-al
Arriaza then started True2Life, a snakeoil supplement company that he once touted as a future “billion dollar company” [06:27].
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOd0tg1pzB4
In 2012 Arriaza signed a marketing agreement essentially giving True2Life to Youngevity in exchange for a top-level distributorship (Senior Executive Marketing Director) and a position on the company’s so-called ‘medical/scientific advisory board’.
http://ygyi.com/wordpress/press-release/youngevity-forms-marketing-alliance-with-true2life-direct-seller-of-science-based-personal-care-and-wellness-products/
http://www.otcmarkets.com/edgar/GetFilingPdf?FilingID=9235898
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130204005253/en/AL-International-JCOF-Appoints-International-Health-Experts
http://ygyi.com/comptimeline.php
I don’t understand the anger that some of you are posing about Dr. Wallach’s company. First of all, a pyramid scheme is when only money is exchanged without a product. Most every huge business is set up in the form of a pyramid-from banks to hospitals! Secondly, here in America, we are free to spend our money as we see fit. If a banker makes $2,000,000 a year, are you being this hateful?
Have you read Dr. Wallach’s books? They’re filled with tons of amazing research. The products have helped me with many issues. I have malabsorption issues, and these products are absorbable for me.
Healthy people probably don’t need supplements, but many people with health issues are helped with them–as long as they’re not synthetic. Youngevity products are no more expensive than hundreds of other supplements that can be purchased in a health food store or supplement store. An example is Garden of Life. Many of those products are $40 to $50 and they too are excellent. What you are calling “pyramid scheme” is simply word-of-mouth advertising–no different than if you recommend a good restaurant to someone, except you don’t get a bonus for that. Yes, Dr. Wallach is cynical, as are many doctors who have tried to help people through using natural measures. Many have served prison time just for recommending natural cures. And these are often Harvard educated doctors who realized that people aren’t being cured from many of their treatments. After all, thousands of people are killed every year through medical mal-practice and pharmaceutical drugs. We are free to choose our own healing methods. There are hundreds of network marketing companies–some with excellent products and others not so good. Without good products, the companies fade away fast.
Dr. Wallach, as a veterinarian, realized that animals were being treated with nutrients. He was sure the same would work for humans, and thus started his research. Get over the anger when you know don’t even know the facts!!
Maybe you don’t understand the anger because you have been given false information.
For example pyramid schemes can indeed have a product… see the FTC guidelines.
Also you are confusing legal hierarchical organizations that don’t pass money based on recruiting with pyramid schemes that do not.
I’ve read scientific analysis of Wallach’s books which show the information in them is false. I cited more sources in the article. I’m going to trust the experts on this one.
Youngevity products are much more expensive that hundreds of other supplements that can be purchased in a health food store… that was the very point of the article!
You can do word-of-mouth advertising with a single level commission structure and no need for the recruiting in pyramid schemes. So why would Youngevity choose to look like a pyramid scheme when they can clearly show they are not?
Susan, get over your anger and do the research.
That bizarre story from Denice Chenault at the 2015 distributor convention really is divorced from reality. Below is her warped version and the clear-eyed translation.
Denice said: “So in 2 years this is what’s going to happen to you. [Snort] You’re gonna drive to your work, you’re gonna walk into your boss’s office, you’re gonna sit down; and you’re gonna quit your job. You’re gonna explain that that little ‘PYRAMID SCHEME thing’ that you almost got terminated for last year, you’re now an entrepreneur, and you’re gonna be doing that full-time. And then you’re going to go out to the parking lot, you’re gonna get into your sliver Mercedes that Youngevity has paid — for — and you’re gonna drive home. Oh, no wait, actually, first you’re going to drive to the bank and you’re gonna walk into the bank and you’re gonna deposit your coding bonus. And the lady’s gonna say ‘will that be checking or savings?’ And you’re gonna say ‘meh, I don’t really care, I get these all the time’. Then you’re gonna drive home, you’re gonna get the box off your front porch with your new MK dress, you’re gonna slip it on, and you’re gonna go to the best restaurant in town, and you’re gonna sit down with your 4 closest friends, and you’re gonna plan what your life is gonna look like when you’re MAKING A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR in just a couple a years. How does that sound?”
Reality: “So in 2 years this is what’s going to happen to you. [Snort] You’re gonna drive to your work, you’re gonna walk into your boss’s office, you’re gonna sit down; and he’s gonna tell you that you’re fired because you wouldn’t shut up about that ‘PYRAMID SCHEME thing’ that you almost got terminated for last year. You’re now unemployed, and you’re gonna be doing that full-time. And then you’re going to go out to the parking lot, and you’re gonna watch the repo man tow your sliver Mercedes that Youngevity leased in your name — and you’re gonna walk home. Oh, no wait, actually, first you’re going to walk to the bank and you’re gonna try making a withdrawal. And the lady’s gonna say ‘checking and savings are both overdrawn’ And you’re gonna say ‘dang, would you like to buy some Tangy Tangerine?’ Then you’re gonna walk home, you’re gonna get the box off your front porch with your cheap ugly new pyramid scheme dress that you can’t afford, you’re gonna slip it on, and you’re gonna go to Olive Garden, and you’re gonna sit down without your 4 closest friends because they disowned you, and you’re gonna plan what your life is gonna look like when you’re losing $20K a year in just a couple a years, while crying over your cheesy twisty breadsticks and marinara sauce. How does that sound?”
Vogel, that sounds like the kind of deceiving income claims that gets the FTC’s attention.
Sliver Mercedes? Is that like getting a sliver from a Mercedes? Will it hurt like a sliver from a board?
Wow, such a fueled debate, ain’t the freedom of speech grand.
I believe that all people are judged by the the fruit of their labors.
Alex Jones, Dr. Wallach, Dr. Glidden and countless others who have dedicated their lives to helping others with thousands of hours of research and perseverance. These are REAL people, the true pioneers of our generation, those who who endure the onslaught of adversity and continue to grow and flourish.
I have know idea who “LAZY MAN” or “VOGAL” are or what they have risked or contributed to humanity as a whole? These individuals hide behind faux identities and I doubt have ever truly fought for anything just in this world or truly made a difference, for all we know these could be webbots or paid shills from big pharma. I ask you WHO ARE YOU? Make a Youtube video, start a radio show, make documentaries, publish papers in medical journals, create multi million dollar companies yourselves and put your true identities out there and be real. If you are that passionate about exposing your truth, show yourselves!
Again, I believe that all people are judged by the the fruit of their labors.
Think for yourselves and believe what ever you want to believe, it’s all an illusion anyway. Blessings to all.
Alex Jones is generally regarded as a nut-job who is essentially a combination of a shock-jock and an Internet Troll, trying to draw up controversy for ratings. He doesn’t pioneer or contribute to anything other than bickering.
Wallach and Glidden have been well-covered in the previous comments. Snake oil salesmen profit at the expense of people… they don’t help them.
I have moved away from my six-figure software engineer career so I can earn far less than half that to help people with their money and avoid being scammed. I’m in a YouTube video as a guest on a radio show. I’m being profiled in a top magazine in the next few weeks for my help. As you can see from the right side of my website that’s nothing new. I have published my try identity, but a law settlement required that I remove that publication.
There are hundreds of anonymous personal finance bloggers just like me. By being anonymous we can give intimate details of our personal finance lives. It’s just how personal finance bloggers work and it is extremely common. When you publish your income and net worth on your Facebook page, you can throw stones about anonymity.
Not everything is an illusion. The
Christo Hatfield: “Wow, such a fueled debate, ain’t the freedom of speech grand.”
Yes, it is, but First Amendment rights don’t apply here. Participation here is a privilege, not a right. You should instead be thanking the internet in general and the blog host in particular for making a forum like this possible.
Christo Hatfield: “I believe that all people are judged by the the fruit of their labors.”
Like the stupid things they say in public?
Christo Hatfield: “Alex Jones, Dr. Wallach, Dr. Glidden and countless others who have dedicated their lives to helping others with thousands of hours of research and perseverance. These are REAL people, the true pioneers of our generation, those who who endure the onslaught of adversity and continue to grow and flourish.”
Describing any of these self-serving hacks as “true pioneers” calls your sanity into question. Not-a-doctor Glidden et al. have neither grown nor flourished. They have stagnated in the netherworld of snakeoil pyramid schemes and medical conspiracy theories.
Christo Hatfield: “I have know idea who “LAZY MAN” or “VOGAL” are or what they have risked or contributed to humanity as a whole?”
Hey dolt, it’s spelled “Vogel” not “VOGAL”, and there’s no need to shout my name in all caps. And why should you have any idea who I am or what I have contributed to humanity? Is this your first day on an internet forum? Participants in such forums are typically anonymous. Learn to deal with it.
Christo Hatfield: “These individuals hide behind faux identities and I doubt have ever truly fought for anything just in this world or truly made a difference, for all we know these could be webbots or paid shills from big pharma.”
I know exactly who you are — a F-ing idiot — because F-ing idiocy is what it takes to say something so incredibly foolish. You know precisely nothing about me or what I do when I’m not posting here. I could play your game and say that for all we know you’re a Satanist who eats babies for breakfast, but fortunately I have relevant comments to add to this discussion instead.
Christo Hatfield: “I ask you WHO ARE YOU?”
And I say in response: GO F YOURSELF – because (a) you have no reason to expect to know the identity of anyone on this forum; (b) you didn’t ask me nicely; and (c) you’re a dickish troll who, unable to make any comments relevant to the discussion at hand, tries to derail the discussion with off-topic noise.
Christo Hatfield: “Think for yourselves and believe what ever you want to believe, it’s all an illusion anyway. Blessings to all.”
From that comment we can gather that you are mentally ill (i.e., dissociated from reality) and that you like to candy-coat your ad hominem attacks with twisted insincere blessings. It’s no wonder that your greatest contribution to humanity is being a predator who tries to lure people into Youngevity’s craptastic snakeoil pyramid scheme. You’ve been relegated to one of the lowest rungs on the ladder of life — and deservedly so apparently.
HI C Hartfield, in my opinion people, like lazy man, vogel and others have freedom of speech, its good that they are not like health care professionals such as vet wallach ND Glidden, PR A Jones, they are just people like us who does not get paid by any other companies, is just unbiased opinion..why are you so resentful toward his opinion at the end of the day he might have an experiences from other people who have tried youngevity (LIKE MYSELF AND OTHERS) AND IT DID NOT WORK – just like prescribed medicine sometime not working for every one..and medicine..is design for temporary supression only to help patient managing it while they change their life style (diet, exercise, live healthyly) medicine however provide side effect as stated in the leaflets..however they have been clinical tested for over hundreds or even thousands of peoples and cost lots of money..hence the companies need to get that back..and also being approved by FDA..unlike supplements..sometime too much vit K or D or something might do more harm, because people are different (their absorbtion, thyroid, condition etc..etc) however..youngevity or any other supplements/vitamns suppliers they are not responsible if some side effect arise of some one taking their product..hence they have to check with their doctor while taking it..to cut these message short..you should not shoot the messenger..at the end of the day I , personally find this message was helpful..as I don’t feel guilty not to carry on buying the product from youngevity..if I want some supplements I can buy from somewhere else that have a n excellent quality but not MLM company..what is wrong with that?????? it could be cheaper and it could be more????
“I had also come across a handful of people from the church who had been approached by AL distributors claiming to cure them of their health conditions, many of them who had received no benefit but were too shy or ashamed to let their story be heard.”
This sounds like the “buy-in mind lock” syndrome, but note that the allopathic medicine industry is equally susceptible to this syndrome.
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I met with Dr. Wallach in Chicago last Monday and I understand that he received a Lifetime Achievement award from our United Nations last October. Doesn’t sound fraudulent to me. I understand that he has facts to back up his research and studies not opinions.
It wasn’t awarded by the United Nations. It looks like it was the G.O.D. awards which was held at the United Nations. My guess is that they rented a room in the building. My understanding is that he doesn’t have facts to back up his research which leads to claims like the aforementioned pig Alzheimers which doesn’t appear exist.
I am a 45 year old graduate of Vassar College with a mathematics degree and Master’s degree from SUNY New Paltz, and have been a math teacher for 20 years. The past 9 weeks my body went through what I can only describe as a science-fiction nightmare. In short, over a 5 week period, muscles & thyroid glands in my neck literally stopped working,nerves and sinuses were inflamed, freezing my face and body much like what I think rigamortis would feel like. Four family practitioners, an ENT, 2 neurologists, and an ER doctor offered me nothing but pain and nerve blocking medications that did nothing to improve my symptoms while I awaited an MRI and it’s results. After a night of prolonged muscle contractions (4-5 minutes at a time) I went to the internet and looked up what makes muscles work/relax.
To shorten my story, I have been taking Magnesium supplements, baths, and applying Magnesium oil to my skin. Slowly, my body’s muscles and glands are starting to work, and my ocipital and trigeminal nerves are less inflamed each day. At first, the reverse process of muscles returning to normal function was also a crazy experience. My MRI came back normal as well as all other tests and blood work I was sent for. From what I understand from my experience and the research that I have read, I have concluded my doctors would have waited till my heart muscle stopped working before they would known enough to give me Magnesium. I am very fortunate and grateful to have been introduced to Dr.Dean, Dr. Wallach, and Dr. Glidden via the internet. With the information they provided for free, I went to my local pharmacy, and bought a simple supplement that saved my health, my career, and I believe my life.
Although they endorse a product,they also are giving the education of scientific based nutritional medicine away for free. Regular medical doctors are needed for specific instances like trauma, and infectious diseases. But in my opinion, if you suffer from chronic pain or a chronic disease, science-based nutritional medicine is a much more safer and effective approach to your health. If it doesn’t work, you can always go back to the drugs. I now believe Chiropractic and Acupuncture care are also wonderful alternatives to traditional medicine as well. As these doctors say,there is no need to suffer. Learn for yourself what causes inflammation, diabetes, and hundreds of other chronic diseases. You may be surprised what you learn. I had to learn the hard way.
You should probably stick to math, Melanie. Magnesium is very cheap, so it certainly doesn’t seem like Wallach is providing much for free. If they want to spread information about supplements, they should shut down the store as it is a huge conflict of interest… and finally, let’s firmly remember that vitamins and minerals are a waste of money according to science.
Melanie just told you her story of how a mineral took care of her problems, and you still want to deny that they work! Stop being so blinded of the truth lazyman. Bodies breakdown because they’re missing nutrients, not because they’re missing a chemical medication. Medications mask the symptoms while nutrients take care of the problem at the source. The more you deny the truth, the more you look like an idiot. So please just step into the light of medical nutrition. The doctor that discovered all degenerative diseases are because of a nutritional deficiency has a book in the Smithsonian institute and has done over 20,000 autopsies. His name is Dr. Joel Wallach and I think he would know a little bit more about nutrition than you.
Just because you and your wife had a bad experience with an MLM, doesn’t mean they’re all bad. It’s just not for you. In other words, you sucked at it. So why should anyone believe such a biased opinion from you?
Why do claim to know so much about science related topics when you have no credibility in that area? You were a software engineer. You don’t know squat about anything nutrition. So shut the fuck up about it.
So stick to your affiliate based advertising and deceiving the general public to make your living you sick fuck.
You commit your life to bad mouthing honest MLM companies when you’re the one that makes your money by spitting out tons of dishonest comments to keep senseless arguments going on your website to make money from Google’s affiliate advertisements. You’re the biggest fraud of all. Keep on lying you deceiving piece of shit!
Well that escalated quickly, eh Vinson?
Bodies breakdown over time… it has happened to every living creature on earth for millions of years. It isn’t a lack of nutrients. Vitamins and minerals have never been the cure and they’ve not been shown to be helpful unless you have one of a couple dozen well-known deficiency diseases such as scurvy.
My wife didn’t have a bad experience with MLM, not sure where people get that stupid story. Someone just suggested that she buy some $45 juice to help a friend make some money on the side and I wrote an article asking why (except for that charitable case) any idiot would do that. The company, MonaVie, saw their pyramid collapse and don’t exist anymore… so I was obviously right.
If you want to play that I’m a software engineer card, please send Wallach back to working on making people’s hamster’s better like the vet he is. The bottom line is that the doctors behind this research study and the studies it relies on DO have credibility. So go ahead and try to shoot the messenger (me), but the message (that science shows that minerals and vitamins are not worth it) is still there.
How am I deceiving the public when I point to well-researched articles while you shout expletives, spread lies about my wife, and spread logical fallacies.
Vinson,
You said, “Melanie just told you her story of how a mineral took care of her problems, and you still want to deny that they work!”
Lazy never discredited her story, and showed again how vitamins and supplements have consistently been tested and show inconclusive results. Therefore, one of three things could be happening with Melanie.
1. She is taking in a very poor diet and needs magnesium supplements, because she is too busy eating doughnuts and drinking soda rather than eating green leafy vegetables and drinking water. You can look at this website for verification http://www.ancient-minerals.com/magnesium-deficiency/need-more/.
2. She is taking Magnesium supplements and miraculously getting healthier even though they are irrelevant (Placebo Effect). This has been brought up many times on the forum, and as many as 30% of people can take a sugar pill and actually see positive results for their symptoms just because they THINK they are getting a treatment. In reality there is no correlation to a sugar pill helping with the issue, and yet the results show that they are helping…this is synonymous with Magnesium helping Melanie to feel better to a certain extent unless situation 1 is prevalent.
3. She is a biased story teller. She tells an anecdotal story that cannot prove anything conclusively because the sample size is far too small. She is a rare example of not actually having a monetary incentive, but if she truly believed in this product or Magnesium in general, why would she be doing internet searches on people disputing the topic? It would seem there are hidden agendas not being completely revealed, because when I use a product that is sound, the last thing I do is look up places disputing its abilities.
Vinson said, “Bodies breakdown because they’re missing nutrients, not because they’re missing a chemical medication. Medications mask the symptoms while nutrients take care of the problem at the source. The more you deny the truth, the more you look like an idiot. So please just step into the light of medical nutrition.”
Talk about someone calling the kettle black. Where is your degree proving you know anything about nutrition and how the body breaks down? I’m fairly confidant that statements about bodies breaking down because of missing nutrients, and that chemical medications are bad, proves your own ignorance to the subject at hand. To suggest that medications like Tylenol, Ibuprofen, Penicillin, Wellbutrin, and many others are merely masking symptoms is…lunacy. Needless to say there are many more medicines that are extremely important to our health and survival. The average life expectancy for human beings is its highest ever, because we have developed chemical medications and done massive amounts of research to treat and cure degenerative diseases. If anyone suggests that degenerative diseases like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, Huntington’s Chorea are because of a nutrient deficiency is sipping the Koolaid. They are well documented diseases that show a destruction of grey matter in the brain as the brain ages, and the reason for their onset has genetic traits rather than a nutrient deficiency. Your point here is just wrong.
Vinson said, “Why do claim to know so much about science related topics when you have no credibility in that area? You were a software engineer. You don’t know squat about anything nutrition. So shut the fuck up about it.”
I have read many of Lazy’s topics, and the last thing he does is take credit on behalf of his research as being an expert in these fields. He is utilizes his abilities as a critical thinker, and does hours upon hours of research to provide an educated argument…that’s it. He is not claiming to be a specialist, and he is not claiming to have been involved in the research he has found.
Vinson said, “You commit your life to bad mouthing honest MLM companies when you’re the one that makes your money by spitting out tons of dishonest comments to keep senseless arguments going on your website to make money from Google’s affiliate advertisements. You’re the biggest fraud of all. Keep on lying you deceiving piece of shit!”
Where is the honest MLM that tells people upfront that 99% are going to be unsuccessful, spin their wheels, or at best make slave wages? Where is the honest MLM that steps up and says they have specifically invested in lobbying to deregulate the vitamin and supplement laws so that they can continue to produce unnecessary, overpriced, and possibly harmful products in society. Where is the honest MLM that says, try changing basic habits in your life first, eating healthier, working out, seeking professional help, before turning to alternative possibly harmful, nonscientific products? Where is the honest MLM that utilizes unbiased medical professionals that aren’t on their payroll to help create credibility for the products? Please feel free to actually attempt to answer any, and all of these questions.
Wow, this is definitely all over the map for me. I have arthritis in my knees so I just got yesterday all the products that were recommended to me by a Youngevity representative in the mail. I will have a phone conversation with him later on and start my program tomorrow. At no time did he push me to join or to sell me anything other than what I need. He did warn me that the products are indeed expensive. Heck, I paid $284.00 for a month supply. I figured I will go 3 months and see if there’s any improvement whatsoever. If not, I lost that money and I will go back to shots in the knees from my MD until I am bone on bone and then the knee replacement is next. I can tell you that I spent a lot of money for the 5 past years or so and nothing worked, the problem just got worse. Try this, try that, this is better, no this is better, gotta try this shit is the latest, and on and on. 3 months is all I will pay for and then I promise to come back here and give you an honest assessment.
I hope the best for you. Remember to clean your diet as well. Stay away from the 10 bad foods as well or your results may be not as good. The science behind nutritional medicine is strong so I am confident you will find results.
Dan said: “I have arthritis in my knees so I just got yesterday all the products that were recommended to me by a Youngevity representative in the mail…I paid $284.00 for a month supply. I figured I will go 3 months and see if there’s any improvement whatsoever. If not, I lost that money and I will go back to shots in the knees from my MD until I am bone on bone and then the knee replacement is next…for the 5 past years or so…the problem just got worse…3 months is all I will pay for and then I promise to come back here and give you an honest assessment.”
Anyone who would get suckered into ponying up $852 for products that are falsely/illegally marketed as a treatment for chronic degenerative arthritis would be well past the point of being able to provide an honest assessment. It’s hard to even conceive of a scenario whereby someone would try such blatantly worthless products to treat medical conditions, beyond the fairy tales that a company troll would concoct. It’s like trying to cure cancer with toast or Alzheimer’s with Dijon mustard.