It is a seemingly never-ending battle to help prevent consumers from being scammed by MLM schemes. Today we look to examine another one of them: Youngevity.
I had a reader ask me about Youngevity the other day. We’ll call him Spike. He wrote:
“Have you done any research on the Youngevity products & Dr. Joel Wallach? I have been taking their Tangy Tangerine product as well as the EFA’s & Osteo FX over the last 3 months. I read your article on Lifevantage and was very impressed by the depth of your study. Just wanted to see if you have uncovered anything with Youngevity.”
I had never heard of Youngevity. However, having looked into other MLM scams, I know one of the first places to look at is the cost of the product. Why? Because MLMs often require their distributors buy product to participate in the opportunity. The artificially expensive product pays the company hefty margins, and distributors often pay the surcharge month after month as a fee for what they feel will make them money.
When I looked into the prices of Youngevity’s products, it had all the tell-tale signs of an MLM scam.
The Value of Tangy Tangerine
The first product that Spike mentioned was Tangy Tangerine, a 32 ounce drink that is highly packed with vitamins and minerals. At a cost of around $40 for a 30 day supply it is upwards of $1.25 per serving. I did a quick search on Amazon and found Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men Multivitamins (180-pack) , which was similarly highly packed with vitamins and minerals. I didn’t compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close, more in some areas, less in others. The price on Amazon for Opti-Men is 10 cents a pill and 3 pills are in a serving, for a total of 30 cents a serving. So instead of paying $40 a month for Tangy Tangerine, you could be paying about $9-10 a month. Some of the reviews said Opti-Men was really powerful and there’s really no need to take three capsules, so you might find that you can save even more money by taking just one or two. (Side Note: The Opti-Men was the first thing I saw, I bet there’s an equivalent women’s version that is similar.)
Price per serving: $0.30 vs $1.25 in favor of Opti-Men. That’s a savings of a little more than 75%.
With Tangy Tangerine, another concern I have is with the marketing of this product. On the bottle it says “with 115 vegetables and fruits.” There are no fruit and vegetables in 500mg of powder and certainly not 115. Anyone buying into this claim should take a bottle to their doctor or medical professional (who isn’t affiliated with the MLM) and ask them if you can stop eating vegetables because you are getting 115 from Tangy Tangerine. I image they’ll find that humorous.
The Value of EPA Plus
Next up is EPA Plus. This supplement is like fish oil, but it is a blend of healthy oils like flaxseed. On the web I found it available for around $30 for 90 capsules, which is equivalent to 90 servings. That’s 30 cents a serving. So what’s the Amazon near equivalent?
It’s Omega 3-6-9 Gold. It has the mix of different sources of good fats as well. It is $13 for 180 capsules which turns out to be 7 cents a serving… and at 1200mg you are getting more product. Update: 12/30/2013: Looks like that product is currently unavailable from Amazon. However, I spent another 30 seconds coming up with a good alternative from Amazon:
NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9 1000mg. It is around $15 for 250 capsules… 6 cents per capsule. If you use Amazon’s Subscribe and Save, you can knock that down another 20% for a price of around $12.50.
Price per serving: $0.06 vs $0.30 in favor of NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9. That’s 1/5th the price or 80% off of the Youngevity price… and it gets even cheaper with Subscribe and Save.
The Value of Osteo Plus
At this point, I got a little tired of searching, so I literally took the first thing that I found on Amazon and it seemed close to the Osteo Plus blend. Specifically, I am referring to: Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. I had to look at another website to get the nutritional information on this product as it wasn’t nicely available on Amazon. The nutritional information shows a more diverse blend than Youngevity’s Osteo Plus, but with lower amounts of calcium and vitamin D. These are the big things you’d be looking for in a osteo complex, so it looks like a bad fit. However, keep in mind that the Opti-Men product above had additional calcium and vitamin D, plus there’s the nutrients that you get from your regular diet. That should make up any difference. OsteoPrime Plus is priced at $17 for 120 capsules. However with 4 capsules per serving that is a 30-day supply on Amazon. The price for Youngevity’s Osteo Plus online that I saw was $41 also for a 32-day supply.
Price per serving: $0.57 vs. $1.28 in favor of Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. This time the savings are closer to 55%.
I should mention that these don’t seem to be random products that Spike picked out. They all seem to be part of what is calls the Youngevity Healthy Start package. This $112 product has the 30-day supply of all three Youngevity products. The price of this is combination on this site and this site is $112 (as of 4/27/2012). The later makes it seem like it a value as it normally costs $159.00. At $112, that’s $3.73 a day. The price of the three items that I listed above: 94 cents a day. That’s a savings of between 67-75%… or between $689.85 and $1018.35 a year.
The typical case for MLM is that the quality of the MLM product is better than any you compare it to. Clearly if both products were identical Honda Accords you wouldn’t pay more. This puts the pressure on the MLM to prove that its product is significantly better. This is where they hire a couple of medical professionals as scientific experts, but the reality is that they are paid spokesmen. What you really need to know when it comes to vitamins is that there’s a non-profit organization that you can trust: the United States Pharmacopeia. You’ll find these products have USP Verified Dietary Supplement Mark on them. I’ve talked to a lot of pharmacists and they all say that this is the place to start and end your search for supplement quality… however many admitted to me that standards are generally so good they don’t look for it themselves and just buy the cheapest generic brand.
Absorption of Youngevity and other Vitamins
Some commenters have tried to ignore this point about the USP. When they do, they often say that cheap vitamins aren’t absorbed well or that liquid absorbs better. It’s worth noting that there are no studies on Youngevity’s products absorption. If Youngevity’s products do absorb better than its competitors and this is indeed an important factor, why is there zero analysis on it? Another thing to keep in mind is that when researchers and scientists are researching vitamins, they often don’t choose liquid sources or even state the brand of vitamins at all. Why would scientists/researchers time and again choose to go through all the trouble of conducting studies with products that are known to be poor? The answer is that they aren’t using poor products.
Consumer Reports addresses the absorption of liquid vs. solid vitamins:
“Q. My wife pays a premium for liquid vitamin and mineral supplements, which are supposedly better absorbed by the body. Are they worth the cost? —D.P., Sacramento, Calif.
A. Probably not, unless your wife has trouble swallowing solid supplements. In theory, liquid supplements should be better absorbed by the stomach since they’re already dissolved. But there has been little research to substantiate that idea. And at least some evidence has shown no meaningful difference.”
I’d add that even if she has trouble swallowing solid supplements, there’s amazing technology called pill crushing that has existed for years which solves this.
When it comes to Youngevity it is worth keeping in mind the “Can I Pay Less for Something of Similar Value?” game.
However, perhaps the biggest thing to consider is that recent research is showing that supplements may do more harm than good.
It simply doesn’t make any sense to spend more money on something that doesn’t seem to work in the first place.
Update (12/16/2013): The well-respected medical journal Annals of Internal Medicine says, “Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements”.
This CNN article covered the situation well:
“The (vitamin and supplement) industry is based on anecdote, people saying ‘I take this, and it makes me feel better,’ said Dr. Edgar Miller, professor of medicine and epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and co-author of the editorial.’ It’s perpetuated. But when you put it to the test, there’s no evidence of benefit in the long term. It can’t prevent mortality, stroke or heart attack’.”
Many of the smartest people in the world have done the research on hundreds and thousands of people and haven’t anything that helps, and even found that it could be dangerous.
“Doctor” Joel Wallach
It’s worth noting that Youngevity is associated with “Doctor” Joel Wallach. Who is he? According to Skepdic he is a veterinarian and a naturopath.
The American Cancer Society sums up what you need to know about Naturopathy: “Available scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease, since virtually no studies on naturopathy as a whole have been published.”[Update: When I wrote the article it seemed like a safe bet that most people would consider one of the largest non-profits/charity with the goal of rid the world of cancer reputable, but I’ve received a few comments from people, probably Youngevity distributors, that are to the effect of “This guy believes the American Cancer Society, now I know I can’t trust him.”
There are numerous other reputable sources that make the point that naturopathy is quackery, not supported by the proven scientific method. There’s a list of six accredited Naturopathic schools (at the time of this update) and not one of them is associated with any university you have likely heard of. If you are one of the few odd people who are against the American Cancer Society, the point about naturopathy being quackery is well established by other reputalbe institutions.]
I love animals and my aunt is a veterinarian, but I’m not taking advice for my own health from a veterinarian and person who bases their treatments on things that haven’t been scientifically proven. There are hundreds medical doctors in a few square miles from where I live that are hundreds of times more qualified that Wallach. I’d put nutritionists as more qualified when it comes to supplementation as well.
I put “Doctor” in quote when referring to Wallach, because he’s a doctor in the sense that my wife, who has a doctorate in pharmacy (she’s a pharmacist) is a doctor. It’s a fair title for her education, but she doesn’t use the doctor title, nor does anyone else.
That skepdic article on Wallach is very illuminating as it goes into various antics that he’s done over the years. It is clear that he’s misrepresenting himself and making up lies (woman in China who lived to be 250?”)
Does Youngevity Work?
Sorry, but Youngevity joins the long list of MLM products with distributors claiming there are miracle health cures. Why do people make such claims? If you read nothing else today, read this: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not “Work”
About Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research (INR) (Update: 3/01/2013)
A few commenters (mostly distributors) have asked about where I stand on the “Clemson study” on Youngevity products.
Reading the Clemson press release on the relationship with Youngevity is interesting. Here’s a key sentence: “[Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research] goals are to develop greater confidence in product quality, effectiveness and enhance consumer demand for quality nutraceutical products.” (emphasis on “enhance consumer demand” is my own)
You know what another word for “enhancing consumer demand” is? Marketing. In other words Clemson’s goal is to market nutraceutical products, and Youngevity pays them money for that. Ever hear of the rich person whose kid isn’t all that bright, but he got into the top college anyway? The school just happened to get a nice library donated by rich family. The parallels here are obvious.
On February 5th, 2013, I noted that the website for Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research is not functional. Some may argue that I have the wrong URL there, but if I do, Google does too from this screenshot. As of this update, March 1, 2013, the website is still not functional.
In addition to the website being down for nearly a month a Google search for Clemson Institute of Nutraceutical Research gives almost all results for Youngevity. I couldn’t find any other research it has done aside from Youngevity, which is an obvious red flag.
Lastly as Commenter Mark Harris pointed out, Clemson’s INR is not listed on Clemson’s list of over 100 institutes and research centers (as of 12/30/2013).
With the website being down for months, lack of information about other studies, and Clemson’s own failure to recognize it, is that it is hard to take the institute, and hence this research, seriously.
With that said, I feel it is important to address the Clemson “research” itself. With that in mind, let’s take a look at the press release from AL International. One of the first things that pops of the page is that they classify the work as clinical research. However, it is quite clear from the study that this is laboratory research done on test tubes and not clinical research done on humans.
When you mix something up that basic, it’s hard to have any trust in the rest of the “study.”
Much of the press release focused on product safety. While we should all be concerned about safety, vitamins are generally considered safe, so such research is not necessary. If you were to read a review of a $200,000 car saying that it got people from point A to point B without exploding, you would probably be suspicious why they are focusing on something that even cheap cars should be able to do. You don’t buy a Ferrari because it doesn’t spontaneously explode, you buy it because it supposed to deliver an advantage over other cars.
The other part of the article focused on kill cancer cells in a test tube (i.e. cell cultures). On the surface, this seems like compelling information. However, seven years ago we found acai killed cancer cells in a test tube. Not only acai, but according to this USDA article a number of foods kill cancer in test tubes. Heck, even pot slows cancer in tubes.
The important thing to take away here is that lots of things, including vitamins kill cancer in test tubes. Clemson could have saved a lot of time if they weren’t in the business of marketing Youngevity by looking at the existing research. This US News article:
Recent clinical trials, for example, suggest that supplements of single nutrients like vitamins B, C, and E and the mineral selenium do not, as once thought, prevent chronic or age-related diseases including prostate and other kinds of cancer. Some substances, like green tea and ginger, seem to have potential in preventing or helping to treat cancer, but they may also actually interfere with treatment or have other serious side effects. Meantime, countless substances that kill or slow the growth of cancer cells in a test tube have not shown that same success in human beings.
So Youngevity, and it’s various ingredients are added to the list of “countless substances that kill or slow growth of cancer cells in a test tube”, but “have not shown the same success in human beings.
Here’s a thought from a pharmacist that I know and trust: “Bleach kills cancer cells in a test tube… I’m not going to drink it any time soon.” She might have been joking with the last part, but the point is clear: We are not test tubes. Few test tubes read this article… and they aren’t concerned about cancer. Many more humans read this article and I presume they are more interested in the fact that the research does not show success for them.
Even Youngevity’s own brochure on the study comes with a disclaimer: “Clemson University only supports the statistical data and analysis provided here. Clemson University does not support, endorse, or sponsor Youngevity or any of its products. Clemson University and its researchers are not affiliated in any way
with Youngevity Essential Life Sciences.”
As commenter Vogel put it: “There you have it. According to Youngevity, Clemson’s only contribution to this misleading research was the statistical analysis of the data. They did not generate the data itself.”
However, I’d take it a step further and suggest that the brochure itself is a violation of the FDA rules for marketing supplements. The FDA has sent this this warning letter to Nature’s Pearl. It specifically states:
“When scientific publications are used commercially by the seller of a product to promote the product to consumers, such publications may become evidence of the product’s intended use. For example, under 21 CFR 101.93(g)(2)(iv)(C), a citation of a publication or reference in the labeling of a product is considered a claim about disease treatment or prevention if the citation refers to a disease use, and if, in the context of the labeling as a whole, the citation implies treatment or prevention of a disease.”
This brochure with “anti-cancer” prominently in the title and throughout the brochure appears to be evidence of the product’s intended use. The small box at the end of the brochure reading “These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease” should tell you everything you need to know about Youngevity and cancer in clear and in no uncertain terms.
Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.
Bottom Line: Clemson duplicated research that was already well known to be irrelevant in an attempt to provide marketing for Youngevity. They didn’t do any clinical trials (tests in humans) of the product, presumably because they knew in advance it wouldn’t have given the positive result that Youngevity paid for.
When Youngevity puts out a press release saying, “The INR is a national leader in nutritional research and one of the most highly regarded organizations in the field of phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals” it is clear that it is complete bovine excrement.
Clemson Update (March 2017)
Truth in Advertising has archived the Youngevity Pamphlet on the Clemson study and has added it to it’s Youngevity Health Claims Database. They wrote a great Youngevity information article themselves that you should read.
The Daily Beast wrote about Youngevity too. Specifically they noted “questionable Clemson University research”. The article went further to get Clemson to officially comment and Clemson spokesperson Robin Denny told The Daily Beast:
“Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research did some limited preliminary laboratory research for Youngevity several years ago. No clinical trials were performed and Clemson has in no way endorsed any Youngevity product nor authorized the use of Clemson’s name or data in conjunction with any claims of efficacy. The Institute no longer exists.”
I’m not a legal expert, but it sounds to me that the spokesperson is saying that Youngevity shouldn’t have produced the pamphlet.
Youngevity and Depleted Soil
It seems that Youngevity is coaching its distributors to say that today’s soil is depleted of vitamins and minerals in order to create demand for their product. It sounds plausible until you look at little deeper.
Behind the deception there is a nugget of truth, which is what they use to sell you down this erroneous line of thinking. There is some credible information that some soil is deficient of vitamins according to this Scientific American article that cites a few sources. It is far from conclusive. That’s problem #1 with the argument, but for sake of argument we’ll pretend it is conclusive. There are a lot more problems.
A Youngevity distributor pitching this has made the bad inference that because we might be getting less than before we aren’t getting enough. If McDonalds cut the calories of its Double Quarter Pounder you probably wouldn’t be looking to add more to make up for “a deficiency.” It’s quite possible we were getting more than we needed in the past and still get enough (which I will cover in a minute). That’s problem #2.
Next, there’s sufficient research that supplements are a waste of money. That’s analysis of dozens of different studies on hundreds of thousands of people. Conspiracy theorists will say that article is biased or created by a “sickness industry”, but these people have no answer for why the same doctors and scientists put their loved through chemotherapy if vitamins and minerals actually worked. Getting back to the article, the conclusion was:
“The large body of accumulated evidence has important public health and clinical implications. Evidence is sufficient to advise against routine supplementation, and we should translate null and negative findings into action. The message is simple: Most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death, their use is not justified, and they should be avoided. This message is especially true for the general population with no clear evidence of micronutrient deficiencies, who represent most supplement users in the United States and in other countries.… we believe that the case is closed— supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful.“
I’ve added emphasis to three important parts. Supplements are not advised… problem #3. There is no evidence of micronutrient deficiencies in the United States and in other countries. This supports the point I made above in problem #2… we get enough. In fact, the people who are looking into Youngevity are probably those who are health-conscious and thus more likely to have a healthy diet that is devoid of deficiencies.
The final point the article makes is that supplements might even be harmful. That’s problem #4. You not only don’t appear to be helping yourself, but you might even be hurting yourself.
I’ve heard people try to discount that article and the science. They do everything can (like the “sickness industry” I mentioned above). I can’t understand how these people believe in some science and not others. They’ll take the whole thing about depleted soil as a given even though there’s far less analysis of that and throw out all the science about vitamins and minerals not being helpful. It’s as if they want to believe in addition, but not multiplication. It simply doesn’t make any sense to pick and choose arbitrarily.
Now let’s get to problem #5. Back in the Scientific American article they presented a solution to the depleted soil problem. It wasn’t supplements. “… foregoing pesticides and fertilizers in favor of organic growing methods is good for the soil, the produce and its consumers. Those who want to get the most nutritious fruits and vegetables should buy regularly from local organic farmers.”
And then there is problem #6 to this argument. It doesn’t give anyone a reason to buy Youngevity’s overpriced supplements (using the above analysis).
Vogel brings up another 7 more problems with depleted soil in this comment. Specifically:
- the main study cited, “did not look at any measurements of nutrient levels in soil”
- “the authors did not conclude that that the apparent decline in nutrient levels was attributable to soil depletion… that a difference in the strains being cultivated, not soil depletion, was the probable cause of the apparent decline in nutrient levels”
- “Some of the nutrients that apparently declined were only marginally lower, which is not likely to be clinically relevant”
- an apple from the 1950s might have higher levels of alar and DDT and other banned pesticides
- improvements in transportation allow for better access to a variety of fruits than in the 1950s.
- the diet in the 1950s was not very good (“potatoes and iceberg lettuce” cited), there is much more nutritional awareness today.
- “… diseases due to dietary nutritional deficiencies (like scurvy, rickets, beri beri, pellagra, etc.) were not uncommon in the 50s but have now been virtually eradicated in the U.S. due to improvements in standard of living and diet.”
About Youngevity’s Parent Company
One thing that came out of the Clemson research that I initially overlooked (I felt it was more important to focus on the product), is that the company is owned by AL International, a publicly traded company that is a penny stock. On January 25th, when the Clemson “research” press release came out, the stock was trading at 16.5 cents a share (I didn’t realize the stock market took ha’pennies). The total value of the company was 65 million dollars, less than some athletes sign for over 2-3 years. Stock prices vary and after the Clemson marketing, Youngevity got the desired result, a significant bump in stock price as penny stocks can do at times. (Note: they can drop just as quickly and are not very good investments.)
I tried to give a fair review to Youngevity based on its products in general, but as I’ve found in every MLM that I’ve looked at, the organization usually is centered around a few charlatans.
Update: I was pointed towards this great first person account with Youngevity. It is extremely long and detailed, but well worth your time if you are considering buying these products or getting into the business. The author actually became a nutritionist because Youngevity’s Wallach was slandering doctors making them seem untrustworthy all why claiming that their “glacial milk” was the answer. Here are some great quotes:
“So rather than just believing the bunch of facts and figures that were thrown at me by my lecturers, I approached the claims that Wallach had made by asking ‘where is the evidence?’ What I discovered was that Wallach’s claims were not only inaccurate but they were nothing more than very clever lies, designed to lull vulnerable people into a false sense of security in order to relieve them of their money.”
“I had also come across a handful of people from the church who had been approached by AL distributors claiming to cure them of their health conditions, many of them who had received no benefit but were too shy or ashamed to let their story be heard. Funnily enough, it was only those who for whatever reason, believed that they had been cured, whose testimonials were given at meetings and printed on the plethora of AL’s advertising material.”
“… I should simply stand up and ask Wallach why he was misleading people and to question him in front of the audience (of several hundred people) and the cameras. I did of course, which resulted in my swift removal (including being physically dragged out and thrown down a flight of stairs)…”
The story is truly amazing and should make it very clear that it best to avoid Youngevity and its marketing tactics that aren’t properly supported by any real evidence.
Actually theres no scientific consensus on the safety of GMO food, consumers dont get it wrong consumers are the ones in power, produces get it wrong because they are the ones losing profits just google whole foods profit or organic food profit or costco organic profit. The quality of the Vitamin sources being sourced from GMO could have conflicted with the results of your tests on multivitamins being unhealthy, thus your results are INVALID until they compare whole food sourced vitamins that are non gmo based and someone on a non gmo diet with the gmo based nutrients ETC. Having research that is too specific doesn’t do any good for anyone and is basically USELESS. Also when A GMO scientist comes out and says the debates not over nad one of the FIRST creators of intergenious modification it really brings your argument of “safe” to shambles http://www.gmwatch.org/index.php/news/archive/2013/15139-developer-of-first-commercialised-gm-food-says-debate-isn-t-over
Deal with a REAL skeptic and get owned. Not every scientist believes the BS that mainstream puts out.
Lazy Man says
This isn’t the place to talk about GMO food as this article is about Youngevity, but scientists very much agree that GMO is safe and they could end world hunger.
I’m sure that not every scientist agrees, but it is a vast, vast majority. When anything reaches that level, you want to listen to them.
Are all the folks posting comments in support of Youngevity part of this pyramid scheme, sorry, MLM? There is no proven benefit to these supplements over generic or other brand name products. The revenue model is what inflates the prices. I pity the poor fools who are falling for this scam and paying prime steak money for chopped liver.
you dont seem to have researched Dr Wallach much. the man has written a book thats a national treasure see (http://www.american-longevity.com/who.htm) for his research. He cured cystic fibrosis in monkeys through nutrition when it was believed cf was genetic.
the reason its good hes a vet is because he learnt that the livestock industry ensures optimum health ie no birth defects for animals and other diseases through exact required amounts of essential nutrients in their meal, which is why he packages exact amounts of nutrients required for optimum health and disease prevention in humans, he tried with humans and through research has found it to be the same as for animals. I could go on and on about the merits of Dr Wallach, hes taken medical institutions to court and won, I recommend YOU do your research, plenty on you tube
Lazy Man says
Ruth, I have done the research and you aren’t bringing up anything new that hasn’t been discussed in the previous comments.
Did you read those comments to find out why they are misleading?
John Walker says
Give me an email when you’re sick with some chronic disease, well, other than terminal stupid, which you obviously have an abundance of, and I’ll tell you what you did wrong regarding wellness.
Lazy Man says
I’m smart enough not spend hundreds of dollars a month on snake oil pyramid schemes.
IV been studying this kinda stuff for about 12 yrs . To fix my tic’s & twitch’s. IV tried almost everything. & a handful of stuff works better than most . IV only had 1 bottle of this brand but it was definitely better than most vitamins IV tried. So maybe try some lazy man . Then tell us . But also study science religion & woo woo all 3 are useful . Like I said I read at least a book tape seminar documentary a day for over 12 yrs & martial arts with the closest person to Yoda IV ever met . & I’m still retarded but at least I’m not full blown retarded only slightly retarded !!! But it is expensive so maybe use smaller amounts to stretch it out . But either way thank u for helping make people more honest.
Not surprising. Youngevity’s products are marketed exclusively to those who are at least semi if not fully retarded. They’re nearly impossible to sell if the prospective victim has an IQ in the 3-digit range.
Susan Metcalfe says
Hey, Lazy Man. I read your article and the seemingly endless diatribe that followed. I was going to engage you on a couple of points but as I continued on through the endless myopic verbiage I realized it would be a complete waste of time. You obviously indulge in drinking the kool-aid supplied by big pharma and the allopathic medical conglomerate that has our entire medical community held at gun point. Your zealous blind worship of the FDA and “scientists” clearly indicates the veil is not coming down for you anytime soon.
With your wife being a pharmacist I can understand one source of indoctrination that can lead you toward your viewpoints. You are most certainly entitled to your own opinion but you are NOT entitled to your own facts. Dear boy,I’m sorry to be the bearer of sad news but the facts are not something you are currently in possession of.
I believe it would be helpful for you to broaden your horizons a bit. Lazy Man is an apt nickname for you. You don’t seem to form any original thoughts or have a mind open to meaningful discussion. You have already decided what you believe and proceed to “parrot” anyone who you feel supports your stance no matter the reason for their own opinion.
Scientists are just people lazy man. They can be bought and paid for to lobby for pharmaceutical companies, the FDA, politicians or the girl scouts. Many of them will say or write whatever they are paid to. There is obviously a great deal you don’t know about the power and corruption involved in the American “medical” system. Why is it that allopathic medicine has been unable to find a cure for heartburn but the holders of the purse strings have dished out to them over $600,000,000,000 to come up with a cure for cancer? It makes about as much sense as hiring the waterpark janitor to design the plumbing system for a new high rise building. They continue to lock out medical professionals who have the knowledge to approach disease cures effectively. They malign and discredit them with voices backed by billions of dollars. You buy it. Research why they push so hard to keep other disciplines out. That will be a killer article.
Save yourself further future embarrassment and get a proper education on subjects before you run off at the mouth as if you know what you are talking about.
I’m sure you will discount my criticisms as coming from a Youngevity distributor or customer but you would be wrong. I am neither.
I know ignorance when I see it though and you have more than your fair share. You could change all that my exploring the material you are commenting on in an unbiased fashion…good luck with that.
Lazy Man says
I have no allegiance to the FDA and I’ve never said that pharmaceutical companies, FDA, or politicians can’t be bought. I simply am saying that isn’t a logical reason to support Youngevity, vitamins, or supplements, which the science doesn’t support.
Suppose I came to you and said that you should drink motor oil because it is healthy. You’d (hopefully) respond by saying, “There’s no credible evidence that is true.” When I respond by bring up that the FDA and pharmaceutical companies lie. Do you then say, “You’re right, I’ll take a tall glass of motor oil”?
This is essentially what you did above. You spent all this time talking about something off-topic, FDA and pharmaceutical companies, that you buy into drinking motor oil.
And if you read my comments you’d know that I’ve made the comparison of the FDA to Wall Street. I know there’s all sorts of corruption on Wall Street. However, but at the end of the day banks have helped hundreds of millions of Americans own homes and attain financial prosperity. The same is true of the FDA… if you look on it from an overall perspective having a system is much, much, better than having no system at all.
To take the analogy further, you might as well point out that bad cops exist and suggest that we get rid of all of them too. What do you think that will do for crime rates?
No medical professionals have been locked out of curing diseases. If you really think that’s true, ask them why they don’t move to one of the 250+ countries that the FDA has ZERO jurisdiction over and cure disease there. No one is forcing them to stay in the United States. Go to France and cure cancer there if you can.
You do realize that allopathic medicine (as you call it) has made huge strides against a number of cancers, right? Other approaches have been the equivalent of hiring a dog to design the plumbing on a new high rise building (to use your analogy). (And I love dogs.)
Now can you please get on the Youngevity? Your motor oil is getting cold. We all know that drinking cold motor oil is less effective than warm motor oil, right?
Susan you hit it spot on! That was amazingly well written! On the other hand…Lazy Man disagrees. Not surprising though. But I think I finally figured out what his problem is…HE’S ONE OF THEM! He’s a left wing asshole too thick headed to admit what’s right. He spends all his days on a computer misleading the people inquiring about rightful thinking to think like a moron. You can’t learn rightful thinking from a wrongful thinker. I feel bad for the stupid people out there being brainwashed and tricked by lazy man’s stupidity and awful, childish way of thinking. Lazy man, It’s simple you stupid bastard. Give the body the 90 essential nutrients it NEEDS everyday and let the healing be done by the greatest physician out there…YOUR BODY. And don’t tell me Youngevity’s supplements aren’t food. Because that’s exactly what it is. Food supplies the body with nutrients. Youngevity takes all the nutrients that makes up our food and condeses them into highly absorbable supplements. Food for the body. I think another reason why he keeps arguing with the rightful thinkers is to just prove how stupid he can be. Everytime I read one of his comments I just realize how more and more pathetic he is. Is he mentally challenged because he can’t understand this? Is he being held at gunpoint and being told to act retarded as he types. Who knows. It’s kind of sad to think how malnourished his parents were before time of conception though. That’s the only thing I can think of that explains the constant mishaps of his brain. He might of turned out a little smarter if he was nutrified with the 90 prior to conception. Well it is what it is i guess. Lazy man, you are the stupidest person I’ve ever came in contact with. Congrats.
Lazy Man says
Susan’s argument had basic logical flaws and didn’t even address the topic of the article. There’s nothing well-written about that.
There’s no evidence that Youngevity does any of what you claim. There’s no absorption rates published anywhere I can find. There’s no comparison with other products. There’s no science that the body NEEDS more nutrients than the basic USDA RDA amounts (I guess the USDA is in a conspiracy theory with the FDA along with all the other similar organizations in every country around the world.) This is well covered scientific territory. This is disputed by people trying to make money peddling their snake oil.
Hmmm, am I going to believe all the scientists in every country… even those who don’t like America? Or am I going to believe a snake oil peddler without a hint of proof? That’s a real tough one.
P.S. I’ve got proof that I’m smarter than 98% of the population. See my Mensa card. You really must not come in contact with many people.
Lazyman, you keep saying that you would Youngevity is snake oil and cost several hundred dollars a month and is all profit driven. I havent heard any facts on the cost of american health care. In 2012, the average health insurance cost for an individual through a company was $6,566 (~$550 monthly). In 2012, the average health insurance cost for a family plan through an employer was $16,351 ($1362 monthly). The MD medical structure is profit driven and extremely expsensive… So expensive that 62% of bankruptcies in the US in 2007 were due to medical reasons (of these, 3/4 of the filers had health insurance).
Also, the prevalence for the majority of chronic illnesses is increasing despite being the 2nd most expensive country for health care (17.6% GDP). If my doctor is too stupid to realize what really causes heartburn and cant even cure it, im not sure why we pay $150+ for a 15 minute appointment. They know so little able heartburn that the prevalence increases 4% per year…
Lazy Man says
You haven’t heard facts of on the cost of American health care, because it is irrelevant to the discussion of a snake oil products.
The supplement industry (which include Youngevity) is even more profit driven and doesn’t provide any useful science that it works.
You realize that our health care is 2nd most expensive because of politics in Washington, D.C. right? Other countries are allowed to negotiate medication prices. Medicare is not allowed. Companies use the money they make in America to subsidize their products in other countries.
Read the sections of “Premium Prices in the United States” and “No Negotiation, the Price Is Set” here: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/835182.
If you don’t like the pricing of medicine in the United States, write your congressman. The products don’t price themselves.
And yes, I’ve covered this in other articles on the site… articles that are more appropriate than one on Youngevity.
Editor’s Note: I’m the only one allowed to use a sarcastic name around here… and I do it only because I explained why in my About page. Hence, I’ve changed this username to more accurately reflect the author.
There are so many comments people are writing I can’t get through them. But I will say 100% that I have tried and use Youngevity’s “90 For Life” products and can speak from personal experience that nothing has made me feel better, given me more energy and completely killed my craving for any kind of soda. And for a 30 year plus soda drinker of 40-50 oz a day that says a lot. It’s sick and sad I know but that’s how I use to be, but thanks to these products I am done with soda!
The key of comparing any vitamin or mineral product with another is do they absorb into your body? Dr. Wollach is 100% correct in his findings and has done more research and much more qualified than “Lazy Man and Money.” Not only have the products I used worked for me and my friends, he has backed it up by a 100% money back guarantee. If you don’t like it and don’t notice a difference, send back empty bottles or half filled bottles and you get your money back. His studies and research back up everything he says so just because you read a label on the back of some product in a health food store, doesn’t mean it has the same impact that these products do. Thousands of pills out there for 30 cents a day don’t even absorb into your body. Which means you’ve wasted your money on something that doesn’t work. If the pill does not breakdown in a glass of water overnight, it will not break down into your body, period. This coming from my father that practiced Pharmacy for 50 years. He said that finally someone is getting it, that they realize pills are harder to absorb and therefore you are NOT getting the nutrition you need. Colloidal minerals absorb and if you’re not going to try the Youngevity brand that guarantees a 100% money back guarantee, then at least buy the Colloidal products that will absorb into your body. You’ll at least get some kind of effect there and at least the money you’re spending is getting results. But most Colloidal Minerals are more expensive than the pills you get off of the shelf. That’s how it’s always been and that’s not just Youngevity products.
Now to address the “quick cash” that you think this company gets from purchasing their products. Don’t we live in American where we are all free to build a life for ourselves and our family? What Dr. Wollach is doing, not only gives you a chance to feel better and become more healthy, but he also gives you a great opportunity to earn extra money by selling products that work for more people than not…at least that is what I’ve seen. So to fault a company for earning money by people purchasing their product and criticizing them for it, that’s ridiculous! It’s called “Free Enterprise” and if Dr. Wollach, the people in his company and those that want to jump in and work a business that they believe in and earns money, isn’t that what America was built upon? Yes the .30 cent product is less money but aren’t those companies doing the same thing…and if the product they’re selling doesn’t absorb into your body then you’re getting ripped off because it’s not doing what it was meant to do…and I would bet the family farm on it…they know that it doesn’t.
So get off your lazy butt and do more research and try one of the products before you compare and judge it. Because you’ve got nothing to back up your opinion except speculation.
I’m tired of everyone dogging successful companies and people that have worked hard to get where they’ve gotten. Dr. Wollach has a Master’s Degree in Agriculture, is a Veterinary Doctor AND an MD…what do you have? I may not be in this for the money but how it’s made me feel is worth every single penny!
YOUGEVITY has a life long customer in me!
Lazy Man says
If 300 million people tried a sugar pill, a hundred years of research on the placebo says that 100 million people would give the same review you did of Youngevity’s “90 for Life.”
Are we going to start saying that sugar pills are the answer to better health? I sure hope not.
However, you seem to want to go there and think that it says a lot. If you’ve even read the article a few of the comments you’d know how flawed this logic is.
You bring up absorption of vitamins and minerals, but that is simply a fallacy. Do you think scientists and researchers spend millions/billions of dollars studying vitamins that aren’t absorbed? Of course not. However, you can see from Consumer Reports that absorption of vitamins and minerals is not something to think about.
Your father that practiced Pharmacy for 50 years is dead wrong. Perhaps it is easy to make this claim because you aren’t putting a name to it. Stomach acid is not water. I could leave a piece of steak in a glass of water for weeks and it wouldn’t break down. In the stomach it is digested and broken down easily. This is simply common sense. No one expects stomach acid and water to be the same.
So you can cry about absorption rates, but unless you have strong evidence that all science and Consumer Reports is wrong, you are making a weak case than any moron should be able to see through.
It’s not about whether “Dr. Wollach” (who?) has done more research or is more qualified than me… it is that people more qualified than Dr. Wallach definitively prove his research to be false.
Let’s not talk about money-back guarantees in MLM companies. They remind me of the manhood enlarging pills Enzyte that had a money-back guarantee as well. In fact, it was “double your money back.” Youngevity’s is 30 day from purchase, which may only be 20 days from when you receive your product and certainly not long enough to conduct a placebo controlled trial.
The article covered that we are getting more nutrition now than we did in the past. And let’s not forget that collodial minerals are potentially hazardous. Does the money back guarantee cover harming someone?
I would like to remind you that the “quick cash” that you are advertising is actually an MLM. The FTC associates MLMs with illegal pyramid schemes via their guidelines here. So why would Youngevity want to associate themselves with illegal pyramid schemes? I’m all for free enterprise, but a simple commission without the pyramid would be very easy to implement. If it were legal, you’d think they’d want to show it by taking this approach rather than the one associated with pyramid schemes.
So you get off your lazy butt and recognize that I’ve done extensive research, perhaps more than anyone else and my conclusion is justified.
I never dog companies and people working hard… I’m first person to support them. It’s why I write everyday to help consumers make wise decisions.
The products from Youngevity saved my sister’s life. MY sister had diabetes & heart problems for over 15yrs. She had dialysis and saw the best doctors who specialized in her condition. The doctors told her that there was nothing else they could do for her. She ate healthy & exercised. She eventually on her own stopped having dialysis and stopped taking all of her meds. She was extremely sick. She started taking Dr. Wallachs minerals and within six months she wasn’t diabetic anymore and her heart is stronger than ever.
Lazy Man says
Read this. Or the updated version: right here
I am really glad to read your comment, I was going to apply to become one of youngevity distributor but I really would like to read more information and clinical trial/fact data about it.As I , myself am not well, I thought I would like to become my own testimonial to see if Se Wallach’s products work on me, so I have been emailing my questionaires to their teams to check what shall I buybut none of them are responding back to me..anyway..a friend of mind buying me their product..I have not used it 3 months yet..and I tried to take off my drug, but I got worse, so I am back to pharma drug to manage my pain..on the other hand just to be open minded that youngevity do not work to every one…so to any one who are interested to become an associate or using themself..just be open minded…do not hope too much ..perhaps integrated (combining) with the advise of your MD..remember Pharmaceutical companies spent millions on R&D and clinical trial involving thousands of thousands of people..does youngevity conducting clinical trial at all? either in vitro or in vivo??? I would like to know…anyway..LAZYMAN..appreciate your time to search and put this together..can you also have a look at ”ARIIX” what do you think about them?..what about their products?
I saw a comment from “Anna” saying that she tried youngevity products. Anna, Can you tell me what products you tried (how much and how long) and what ails you?
Didas Kalos says
Hormone Replacement Therapy! Now that’s a good thing the medical establishment came up with. Let’s see, how many women were harmed?
Lazy Man says
I’m not sure Youngevity has anything to do with hormone replacement therapy. I haven’t seen anything on their products about that.
Ok, I have read at least 90% of the Lazy Man article and the comments for the sole reason of deciding whether to join Youngevity or not. Yes, I am in it for the money but I want to believe in the product I am selling. My wife and I belonged to a company that has been absorbed by Youngevity and so here I am through the magic of a Google search.
I agree that eating healthy and exercise is a major key to living a proper life. I also agree that there is a major difference between cheap products and “top of the line” products (generic running shoes vs Asics; generic muscle rub vs Salonpas; etc). There is no argument that some products are superior to others and that natural products are better than unnatural, sugar vs saccharin.
But as I read the arguments from both sides to my wife, she argued that Dr Wallach wouldn’t be a Nobel Peace Prize Nominee if he didn’t know what he was talking about. So I decided to research this claim and was left with a HUGE question mark above my head so I ask for both sides to help me. According to http://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/medicine/index.html “The statutes of the Nobel Foundation restrict disclosure of information about the nominations and selecting process for 50 years.” It also lists who can nominate and it states that there are no self appointments allowed. So if the list of nominees will not be released for the 1991 prize until 2041, how does Dr. Wallach know that he was nominated? If I am wrong about this, please inform me of why.
Lazy Man, I appreciate your research and your time in answering back to the comments even though I do disagree with some of it, but I do respect someone who backs their opinions with research. But as an ex powerlifter, I do agree with the Youngevity Crew that you have to pay for quality. Inferior, cheap products don’t compare to quality.
Lazy Man says
Thanks for the comment. I’m fine with paying for quality. The problem is that there is no “quality” to be had in the supplement game. Calcium is calcium. The molecules are the molecules, Youngevity doesn’t have any special calcium molecules that other supplement makers lack.
If Youngevity’s supplements are better quality than other supplements, where’s the evidence of it? There don’t seem to be any scientific tests measuring quality.
And what of all the research that supplements do more harm than good. It’s very conclusive to the point where unbiased scientists are telling people to stop wasting their money. In talking about quality, you are overlooking this fact.
Since they don’t help your health, it is like spending your time debating the health benefits of putting Exxon gas or Chevron gas in your car. It doesn’t effect your health and there’s no known quality difference between the two. It seems the only differentiating factor is that one costs a lot more money.
If you are looking for natural products then you certainly don’t want to Youngevity products. I don’t see a Youngevity tree anywhere.
MLM companies/distributors routinely push the Nobel Prize nominee game. I think I first read it with Alex Schauss of MonaVie. It’s marketing… Most people won’t do the research to find out that they are sealed for 50 years.
Exxon is chevron you moron and there are different types of vitamins calcium and magnesium some have co factors and some are more natural and absorbable not to mention that food state is natural for the human body instead of synthetic chemical vitamins that other companies offer
Lazy Man says
Exxon (XOM) and Chevron (CVX) are different companies with different publicly traded ticker symbols. Here’s a chart if it helps.
Do you think thousands of research sciences who show that vitamin and mineral are a waste of money have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on research on products that aren’t absorbed?
Yes, food state is natural for the human body, so eat food, don’t take Youngevity. Smartest thing you said.
Anna Shandoz says
Thank you for indepth information, I was going to join as their member now i have to think twice, have you ever look at ARIIX as MLM what do you think about it?, I read in the web, it seems they have a good review…
Lazy Man says
I haven’t had a chance to look into ARIIX in any kind of depth. I have received email requests for it in the past. The fact that Google Suggest suggests Ariix pyramid scheme when I search for it, is probably a good sign to stay away.
Anna said: “have you ever look at ARIIX as MLM what do you think about it?, I read in the web, it seems they have a good review…”
Ariix looks exactly like a classic cookie-cutter Utah snakeoil pyrmaid scheme along the lines of Youngevity, Monavie, LifeVantage, etc.
Run away as fast as you can and don’t ever look back!
Lazy Man says
I take care of myself and fortunately, I’m in very good health. Don’t fall for MLM health scam of have you tried “X”. Nothing good can come from it for the reasons in that article.
As a taste of you’ll learn in that article, there are thousands of products at GNC and no one can try them all. If you got to product #2639 and found that it worked for you, the placebo effect would be enough to declare the results inconclusive. And if you got through all of them, it wouldn’t matter because then we could declare any number of other products such certain years of french wines as possible fixes, carrying a rabbits foot in left pocket instead of your right, etc.
It’s a fools errand, which is why we have large scale, placebo controlled clinical trials to answer the question of “what works”. That’s an article from the National Institute of Health.
I bought osteo pack for my mom for her knees which she used it for 4 months but no improvements what so ever in contrast to the information given by Dr Wallace himself…
I recently heard someone called “Pharmacist Ben” on a local a.m. radio station dispensing medical advice and advertising Youngevity. His medical advice seemed questionable (essentially telling a caller diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat to disregard the previous medical testing related to her condition, and to use Youngevity products). I decided to do some casual online research about the product, which lead me here. Thank you for the in-depth, well cited analysis.
I sincerely hope this information will help consumers make the wise financial choice to avoid MLM schemes such as Youngevity, and will encourage people with health concerns to seek legitimate medical advice from medical doctors.
As the comments show, some people will never be convinced, regardless of evidence; however you have provided a great resource for people to make informed choices about their money and their heath.
Anna Shandoz says
I am glad to read this comment of GB as I would like to share my curiosity and doubt on youngevity…and I would appreciate if any other person can share their experience whether is good or bad… really appreciate this
You response about gmo’s is completely irresponsible. Last research has found the following.
Glyphosate (Roundup®) — the chemical used in
growing crops from genetically modified organisms
(GMOs) — in all probability, causes cancer.
Big Pharma and Monsanto must love you.
I’d rather supplement than take a bunch of pills which will never cure. Because if they cure you they’d go broke. Take a pill to alleviate the symptoms not cure take another pill to alleviate the side effects of the first pill it’s a vicious cycle.
So lazy man go pop your pills and eat your GMO’s and hopefully you won’t get cancer. I personally like the way God made things.
Lazy Man says
I cited my sources on GMOs, which I realize you failed to do. There’s a lot of disinformation out there. Here are a few great examples of articles:
Newsweek – GMO Scientists Could Save the World From Hunger, If We Let Them
Vox – Poll: Scientists overwhelmingly think GMOs are safe to eat. The public doesn’t
Slate – The war against genetically modified organisms is full of fearmongering, errors, and fraud
If you think I’m being “completely irresponsible” for believing in those sources and their well-reasoned information, I have to question your judgment.
However, once again, this article isn’t about GMOs. When you focus on that, it appears to me that you are tacitly admitting that Youngevity is a scam and indefensible. You’d rather fight something else unrelated.
The irony is that Youngevity products are “popping pills”, which is what you tell me to go do. Huh?
I have to stop reading this. I have nothing to do with longevity, but the earlier post on polio and medicine curing it. The polio vaccine is not medicine, it uses a ‘hack’ to allow the body to produce memory cells to the polio virus. Hence, so the body can heal itself.
I’d like to point out that most medicines are plant derivatives as well. The pharmaceutical industry finds something that produces results – an extract, or molecule of a naturally occurring compound, and then they alter it so it can be patented.
You have gone to great lengths to discredit naturopathic medicine, but I ask, have you done something other than read articles and make assumptions? Why don’t you give it a try and see how you feel. Oh, but I guess ‘feeling’ is anecdotal, and hence worthless. Not all scientific research is done with the experimental method and is still considered scientific.
Lazy Man says
We all have something to do with longevity, it’s part of be alive. Maybe you mean Youngevity?
Vaccines do indeed qualify as medicine. You may further qualify it as a “hack”, but anyone would call it medicine.
I think many people have pointed out that most medicines are plant derivatives. The pharmaceutical industry alters it so can be more effective, not as some kind of patenting hack. Many of the patents have expired and it’s not like we go back to eating bark from a Willow Tree. And hey, if you want to sell Willow Tree bark, go for it.
Yes, Gil, trying something to get a “feeling” is anecdotal and is especially worthless given what has been proven about the placebo effect in thousands, maybe millions of experiments. You tell me how anything valid is going to come from that flawed process. Why not do large-scale clinical trials that eliminate these obvious problems.
Have you ever taken youngevity products for a long time? Have you ever cured health problems with it? Well I have and it makes you look like a fool trying to talk like you know about something you havent even tried. I even met them in person and thanked them!
Nothing comes close to the quality and results of youngevity. I can live a normal life and work nice hours feeling great off it.
Lazy Man says
Again, if Youngevity products could cure any health problems, they’d get FDA approval. Hospitals would use them.
You look like the fool using such logic on products that aren’t proven clinically effective (as defined by the NIH process at that link).
I could go on a website and say that a special rabbit’s foot cured my health problems, you just need to use it for a year or two. You can rent these special ones for $99/mo. from me. Oh, you haven’t tried my special rabbit’s foot? Then you are the fool, because I have!
Such logic is nonsense and that’s what you are essentially trying to argue with.
Anna Shandoz says
You are right Lazy man FDA does not approved anything that is natural unless its synthesize – hence pharmaceutical company get approve first before they can sale it..and they have to do lots of clinical trial to make sure the drug is safe even though the side effect could be harmful in a longer term of usage..but they also have to outweigh the benefit of the side effect with the benefit of the treatment.
And also..what question me was: there are hundreds and hundreds of wealthy people there in the US..if youngevity can cure cancer , parkinson, dimentia, surely Michael J Fox alike or his family/PA would definitely buying the products to cure his disease?
Lazy Man says
FDA has approved vitamin D and calcium for osteoporosis: http://www.fda.gov/Food/IngredientsPackagingLabeling/LabelingNutrition/ucm2006876.htm
There are some others there as well. Obviously it doesn’t get more natural than vitamin D and calcium.
It’s maddening how many times I’ve had to inform people of this on the blog. It’s like the supplement industry have brainwashed millions of people into believing a lie.
Yes, clearly Michael J. Fox would just be taking Youngevity and be cured, right? Nope, it doesn’t work that way.
Wow this is proof. The FDA site even says that 99% of americans are deficient in one or more of the required minerals. AND it also says that ANY deficiency results in a disease. So it actually says on the FDA site that if you dont take youngevity (or minerals like it) then you are going to get a disease. Wake up you morons, its a fact you need youngevity or something like it.
I cured my anxiety, depression, OCD and now im curing my tumor from it. I also had toxicity and cancer which is going away.
I used to be sick all the time and now youngevity changed that. Thanks youngevity.
Lazy Man says
Thanks for the comment Eric.
I’m not arguing that the the FDA site says that 99% of Americans are deficient in one or more areas… but you should include a link to cite your source. The FDA doesn’t say anything of the such that if you don’t take Youngevity (or minerals like it) you are going to get disease. You won’t find that anywhere, because it simply isn’t true.
The problem is that it’s well-established (see articles cited) that supplements do not help with the problem. If you had a problem that required you to put a nail in the wall, would you use a sponge? Of course not, a sponge is simply not useful in solving the problem.
So what you are advocating here is that a different sponge may be helpful in putting a nail in the wall. Sorry, but it’s simply the wrong tool for the job.
If you want to put a nail in the wall, use a hammer. If you want to ensure you have vitamins and minerals, eat a healthy diet of foods rich in them.
This isn’t difficult. A fifth-grader (or even younger) can grasp these concepts.
Thats the worst analogy I have ever read something better would be if you paint your room white and miss some spots you still need white paint to finish so if the body is deficient in vitimins in minerals you would give it vitamins and minerals, not a sponge.
Lazy Man says
Except that studies show that trying to paint the spots doesn’t work. That’s the fundamental thing that you are missing here. Time and again, studies show that adding vitamin and mineral supplements don’t help and may actually hurt.
So I guess the idea is to take the time and care to paint the room right the first time (i.e. eat a proper diet), because you can’t go back and fix missed spots (i.e. use vitamins and minerals).
It’s amazing how many people on here are against eating well.
I have never read such an utter load of garbage since using the internet last 20 years. Whilst I agree that the youngevity products are over-priced to say they don’t work because it is not clinically proven is sheer stupidity. Anyone with just a little common sense and their eyes open can see the Western world has literally millions of sick people walking around like zombies with no clue where the sickness comes from. Vitamin and mineral deficiency is rife in Western culture and not all supplements are equal… hunt out plant derived supplements which is equivalent to eating plants as far as the body is concerned. Also, stop eating the foods that make you sick and your body will heal itself. Synthetic supplements cannot be compared to Tangy they really are a waste of money!
Lazy Man says
Ricardo, your comment had no logical basis.
If Youngevity believed their products worked, they’d be confident enough to do the clinical testing to prove it. That should tell you all you need to know. Also in all the thousands and thousands of clinical trials involving vitamins and minerals they have not been shown to work with the exception of scurvy and other rare vitamin-deficiency diseases that we’ve solved for decades now.
Again, it’s been extensively proven that supplements don’t work – Stop wasting money on them. You are missing the point in talking about plant derived supplements or synthetic. It’s like discussing whether a bottle of chardonnay or a bottle of shiraz is better fuel for your car. The answer is that neither is, because wine is not car fuel.
Also, just curious, how do you know that Tangy isn’t synthetic? Did the company say it or is there reputable third-party verification that you are basing this on?
Sheri Elizabeth says
For real? Are you even a health expert? Are you basically saying there is no need for naturopaths, Chinese herbalists, or nutritionists either? Any expert knows that if you take supplements long-term, they need to be taken in the correct ratio in comparison to the other vitamins and minerals. Also, some specific supplements absolutely need to be taken with the one it cancels out otherwise it eliminates it. For example; selenium and copper. Selenium is also a mineral that often needs to be taken long-term. If one was to solely focus on taking Selenium, they could potentially create themselves a thyroid condition due to a self-created copper deficiency.
My main point… when taking medicine, it’s best taken from the experts. I have nothing but love for Dr Joel Wallach. Because of him, I can walk!
Lazy Man says
Are you “basically saying” that we should let any snake oil salesmen charge us a huge amount of money with fully validating the clinical trials?
If you can walk because of Joel Wallach, he and Youngevity should get the product verified as effective with the FDA. Don’t you want other people to walk. Why don’t they do this?
In other thoughts, outlandish claims (paraphrased), “I can walk because Wallach”, require extraordinary proof. Where is the causation of this?
I was online looking to see if I could get any verification that Dr.Wallach’s supplements actually worked. Cause someone recommended it to my mom and she invited a promoter to the house and she is buying the products right now cause she believes them but I though it was a little fishy. Also,she had a bad experience with Herbalife and I don’t want it to happen to her again but she is truly head deep in this product and idk what to do, cause the products are really expensive and we just don’t have the money to buy something that might not work. Also they are telling her to gradually take my sister (who has epilepsy) off her meds. and to start giving her the Youngativity stuff, IDk WHAT TO DO!!!!
Don’t worry about your mom she’ll be fine actually she’ll be healthier than she’s ever been in a matter of weeks, you can afford health and this will lower grocery bills and hunger caused by gmo food by a lot since gmos don’t allow the body to process nutrients due to the abundance of roundup in gmo food. Don’t worry about your mom buying natural cures that work, worry about your mom being an experiment to the gmo food system and pharmaceutical industry, your mom is on the right path…maybe it’s time to re evaluate your own health.
I suggest that you threaten to report the distributor and company to the FDA and FTC. Then actually do it.
All you pro Wallach/Youngevity posters Rock! This site should be taken down due to unprofessional, rude, inaccurate and untruthful comments by this LD person whom is either bias to the views of “big pharmy” or simply lacking knowledge (all documented) of the great health benefits offered by the licenced naturopathic physicians approach to CURING disease.
First id like to say to Lazy Man that my comments are not personal but in rebuttal to so many ridiculous comments you have made. Who ever “you” is while using a fictitious name so you can say whatever you want while in hiding. You go on and on about posters not sourcing yet you dont source neither. And by the way we as posters providing personal opinion dont have to site anything although it doesnt hurt. But i do hope to shed some light on why Youngevity is probably the or one of the best sources for the vitamins and minerals etc essential to the human body on a daily basis and which our bodies can not produce to ward off a/o cure disease. And yes there is an abundance of testing and proof from clinics all over that have been CURING disease for the last 25 to 30 yrs under a licensed physician. In case you dont know the naturopathic physicians are fully legally able to prescribe any prescription they deem required yet they rarely do. Now do you think that is because they want to promote holistic med or because they KNOW there are remedies that really work and lack in bad side effects? LD I have a few questions for you: Are you one to get the flu shot each year, this year perhaps and did you check to see whats in that shot before hand? Well to keep it brief in many cases they dont work by chance of being the wrong strand and are full of harmful fillers and which is documented and offered by the manufacturer. But who reads the warning label and ingredients list before getting a flu shot. Lazy man you might want to educate yourself a bit in this area before embarrassing yourself anymore. For example you referred to Dr Joel Wallach as “snake oil salesmen” yet his recent extensive research backed by millions of grant money was presented and acknowledged at the Smithsonian Library, thats right the place where they keep the really important stuff. He is greatly respected by other prominent physicians such as Dr Glidden and Dr Group. Those slander sites about him are nothing more than that. The one i read was still asking for donations yet had not been updated since 2007
and a few general comments about your whole presence here
You are reviewing products/people to flush out scams as i understand. This was the only one i read and surely the last but i would have to say the Youngevity review was probably the worst and most lacking backing Ive read. You say “I didn’t compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close,…” Sorry but no that doesnt cut it. the whole point is to verify the nutritional content yet you use general vague terms. And cost has to be linked with the verification of the ingredients in order to make a decision weather to use it or not. Well it is costly but it should also be noted that you are getting the 90 odd essential nutrients to keep healthy.what you could include is an accurate comparison of another product having the same quality and quantity of these 90 nutrients, my guess it would be a whole bunch of products costing a lot more. Anyways thats your deal im just saying could you please refrain from posting misleading inaccurate reviews and then bashing all who comments
After all what are we dealing with here… doctors helping people under healthy legal clinical alternatives and yes its all scientifically verified. Do your homework please
Lazy Man says
Pepper, it isn’t scientifically verified. That’s the point.
And yes it does “cut it” to not spend hours trying to quantify a few milligrams of one vitamin vs. another when they aren’t shown to be helpful in the first place. It’s like trying to compare the nutrition of two different brands of apple pies… one might have more sugar and another might have less fiber. They are different, but clearly trying to quantify the nutritional differences is not likely to be a fruitful endeavor.
Just like how no two apple pies are the same, there is no other product with exactly the same quality and quantity of items listed.
Do your homework, Pepper. Perhaps start by looking up what pearls before swine means.
Peper, certainly seems unhinged. A typical distributor who’s irate that U.S. law prohibits Youngevity and its salesforce from selling their crappy hyperinflated pyramid scheme supplements as miracle cures. Could Peper have picked two worse “authorities” to cite than Joel Wallach and Peter Glidden, both of whom are naturopath quacks that work for/ have financial interests in YGYI? I’ve seen a couple of Peter Glidden’s videos and they were insultingly vapid, seething with contempt, and bordering on insane. He’s incredibly creepy to boot (has the charisma of herpes) and is an unimaginably piss-poor spokesperson.
Not surprisingly, Peper didn’t even attempt to offer a rebuttal to any of the details in the article, because there’s nothing he can refute. Instead we get treated to a sneering “health lecture” from someone who is seems completely ignorant about science, medicine, and U.S. advertising law; doesn’t understand what it means to be relevant; and can barely cobble together a coherent thought.
The post had every aspect of the delusional conspiratorial BS we’ve come to expect of these scammy operators: e.g.., insisting that the site should be taken down (“worst” site ever according to Peper); Big Pharma conspiracy theories; an indictment against Lazyman for being anonymous (even though he’s not, and it’s irrelevant either way); bogus claims that vitamins and minerals are a panacea for diseases; anti-vaccination fantasy; and appeals to authority (citing the company‘s two naturopath spokequacks).
Peper said: “For example you referred to Dr Joel Wallach as “snake oil salesmen” yet his recent extensive research backed by millions of grant money was presented and acknowledged at the Smithsonian Library.”
Wallach hasn’t published any “recent” research. He co-wrote a book published back in 1983 called “Diseases of Exotic Animals” — so far back that I bet no one has cracked open a copy in two decades. It’s been out of print for so long you can’t even find a new copy on Amazon. It’s obviously nothing of great significance by today’s standards. Recent in the science world mean the last 2-3 years!
I’ve seen no evidence that Wallach was ever “acknowledged” by the Smithsonian Library either. They might have one of his books in their expansive physical collection, alongside their other 1,499,999 books.
But even if they did — so what? That’s simply another fallacious appeal to authority. It doesn’t have any bearing on the critique of Youngevity and their products. It doesn’t make it OK to lie to people either, by selling them BS supplements and pyramid schemes.
Peper said: “After all what are we dealing with here… doctors helping people under healthy legal clinical alternatives and yes its all scientifically verified. Do your homework please.”
That’s not even remotely what we’re dealing with here. Younvgevity products do not mitigate diseases. If the company and its distributors insist on breaking the law and advertising them to the contrary, then there will almost assuredly be a steep price to pay. If any “doctor” (i.e. quack) is using Youngevity products in any way, it’s to help themselves (to cash), not other people.
Contrary to what Peper snottily insisted, there is no scientific verification whatsoever that any Younegvity product is a “legal clinical alternative” to anything. Peper doesn’t even realize that these threadbare rants aren’t doing Youngevity any favors; they are more nails in the coffin.
I think Dr Wallach is valid along with Dr Glidden. FDA in my opinion don’t approve non-prescription based vitamins because there is no money to be made in it for them or the big pharma industries. There are too many diseases that were not around after 1900 or the 20 century because of our eating habits have changed. Its not rocket science.
Lazy Man says
Dorman, there would be “money in it” for the FDA to approve supplements, because they could then impose fees on those companies and not just the pharmaceutical industry. Also, the FDA is a government agency not designed with the purpose of “making money.”
You can think that Dr. Wallach is valid, but as I pointed out in this thread previously, other experts show he’s made up diseases that simply don’t exist. Not sure how that gives you the impression he’s “valid.” It’s your opinion, but I fail to see how it makes any sense.
I’ve never tried Youngevity although am interested in it. The article seems to have completely lacked an unbiased response to anything. The comparisons are obtuse as it’s very difficult to compare a car with a pill; or a drink with a pill; or a “similar pill” with a pill.
Also, to completely misinterpret the health effects of taking vitamins is silly “supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful.” THAT’S THE POINT!! how many people these days are well-nourished? That’s like saying a well hydrated person should not drink an additional 2 gallons of water a day. Hello…
Monsanto and others have done a good job of feeding our world’s population but it’s clearly come at a cost – how could it not? The US population doesn’t eat right and the FDA, and EPA have largely become politicized… so who can you trust?
I really wish this article took a neutral stance because I have completely disregarded it now.
Lazy Man says
Not sure where you got lost on the comparisons. It isn’t difficult to compare the concept behind two items. If you get stuck in the mentality that it is difficult to compare a similar pill with another pill then you are going to be lost in life. You’ll be stuck saying, I can’t compare two televisions, two cars, two homes, or anything else.
If you read the article that you quoted, it shows that for the purposes of the study the people are indeed “well-nourished.” In the terms that the article is using, it means that they aren’t in third world countries where hunger and mal-nourishment is common. Do you think they’d come to the conclusion that supplements are a waste of time for everyone otherwise? Of course not. These are scientists and doctors.
However, let’s assume if your point was accurate (it isn’t) that we shouldn’t take additional supplements if we are well-nourished. In that case, the goal would still be to get everyone to the point of being well-nourished, which means we wouldn’t be telling them to take supplements. Supplements would give them an excuse to not eat well… and that’s a problem. I think we should all be able to agree that a vitamin doesn’t give one a license to eat poorly.
What is “clearly the cost” of feeding the world’s people? I just want to make sure that we all agree on it if it is so “clear.”
You can trust large-scale, properly blinded studies that use many researchers to come to a unified conclusion. That’s what we have and what I’ve cited with supplements. What we have with Youngevity is the equivalent of something claiming that they have a juggling unicorn in their garage. There’s no useful evidence of it and it goes against everything we’ve come to know in extensive, extensive testing.
Sorry, but I’m not going to take the neutral stance that maybe this one time the company does indeed have the juggling unicorn in their garage unless they provide the proof. That’s just dumb.
I really wish to thank you for doing all the research and time consuming work for us. I grew up in a country where injections (vitamins/mineral/etc.) were the order of the day to “prevent” disease. My maternal grandmother died of breast cancer, other members of the family were not spared their lives by any of the miracle injections they were subjected to throughout their lives. I have one advise to all those who seek better and and longer lifespans: eat well, exercise and rest.
Yes, I do take supplements, under the supervision of my personal doctor. I do not endorse any of these “miraculous” concoctions, and, just like the old saying goes: IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE…….!!!
I truly feel for my friends who have spent so many hours of their precious time, money and energy into the “own your own business, which you can pass on to your children” lies. Those who have ears…….
Anna Shandoz says
I am glad that you also supporting the lazy man opinion, unfortunately lots of people are so blinded by the fact that the marketing deploy are so good and there are lots of people are so desperate and vulnerable they are just so blinded and hoping that miracle happen..and of course..majority of them used to eat junk fast food..then if they started to change their habit by changing their life style (eating healthy, exercise, plenty of fluids..) naturally adding it with supplements (it does not matter where the supplements coming from) their life got to be better off..it is only natural..I just feel really sorry for them..if Youngevity or Mr Wallach trully would like to help people.he could sale it less as he must now earn quite a bit..start to give …yes..MLM cost money…but to be honest..people have a freedom of choice to choose where to buy..if they prefer to spend the money with youngevity then it is theirs…but they should really look DR Sircus is quite good and other company is quite ethical and professional they do not keep slashing FDA or other organisation…THANK YOU ..for both…comment I hope GOD will open these people eyes to see…
I get the whole statistically unproven bit.. I havent seen a double blind study for any of the youngevity products. I have seen double blind studies for various minerals in their products, but thats not quite the same…
It may be statistically unproven, but that doesnt make it not work. The things that ive seen from Youngevity products over the past 2 months.
– Ive limped for 5+ years from a messed up knee. I had a pain level of around 5 or 6. After 1.8 months of medical nutrition (butt loads of glucogel) i have a pain level of 0-1, my knee has stopped popping and im easing back into running/cycling without any issues. No more limping.
– Heartburn of the past 4 months. off meds and cured in 6 days.
– Osteo-Arthritis – joint pain drastically reduced in one month. Not fixed, but will see what happens
– Restless Leg Syndrome – Cured in 2-3 weeks and off meds. My mom can now sleep at night.
Lazy Man says
You will never see double blind studies of Youngevity products, because that would definitively prove something. If the products worked for any medical condition, you’d see them doing that to definitively prove that the products work. If the products don’t work, Youngevity certainly doesn’t want to definitively prove that they don’t work.
I believe they’d rather leave it as an unanswered question and rely on people to report the placebo effect as they typically do with MLM products (see here).
Wow u took info from a site where he also refuses to try the products. So intill u actually try them ur whole deal is suspect.
The handfull of sites that talk nonstop shit about youngevity. The one thing they have in common is they will not try it . But they will spout on about science all day . … Science is similar to religion. It has an agenda sometimes.
U can buy them on amazon so u don’t even have to go to any cult meetings.
I cut the dosage to 1/4 or less & there still awesome. Now Il still exercise eat healthy & take other brands but …. Like I said try it . Then talk or do whatever u want. I personally don’t care . But it will be fun to see u in a yr still talkin smack without having the most angles of info . So shill on !
You have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to Youngevity.
Lazy Man says
I haven’t tried jumping off a building, but I can tell you what the result is, because it’s (unfortunately) been done. It’s not like one time gravity isn’t going to work and the person will be suspended in air. Similarly we’ve taken vitamins and supplements and as the studies I’ve shown on millions of people tell, it’s not like anything magical is going to happen. With the placebo effect, someone might report it. So if I take it and tell you it works, you would be wise to say, “Hey wait a minute. There’s studies of millions of people who says this doesn’t work and we can’t be sure if he’s experiencing the placebo effect.”
Since we all should be able to agree that you can not logically place any value on a positive review from any one person… why would you care whether I, the Pope, or LeBron James tried it or not?
Science is not similar to religion… here’s Berkeley University’s take. Yes, they can both have an agenda. Here the only agenda that is well-proven is MLM salespeople pitching overpriced products as miracle cures with no legitimate scientific evidence to support it. The agenda is clear and obvious, because you aren’t seeing people post a comments about Centrum or any other non-MLM vitamin brand on the market. Yet it seems to happen with every MLM one… and this website has documented proof of all those comments.
You have not clue what you are talking about when it comes to logic.
Wow said: “The handfull (sic) of sites that talk nonstop shit about youngevity. The one thing they have in common is they will not try it . But they will spout on about science all day . … Science is similar to religion. It has an agenda sometimes.”
Science is nothing at all like religion; in fact it can be regarded as the antithesis of religion. You can scoff at science all you want but the irony is that without it we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
It makes no sense for you to be upset that people aren’t keen on “trying it”. First, vitamin supplements don’t produce observable effects for consumers, so there’s no big experiment to necessary to evaluate such a product. It’s simply a question of quality, reliability, and price.
Second, and most importantly, you have to earn someone’s trust and confidence before asking them to part with their money. But instead Youngevity offers up products made from sludge from a mine in Utah; uses naturopathic quacks and lunatics as their shills (Joel Wallach, Peter Glidden, Alex Jones, Benny Hinn, etc.); prices their products 20-fold above retail to fuel a pyramid scheme; and uses false and misleading miracle-cure fairy tales to sucker the public.
Not only would I not part with a penny for any Youngevity products, I wouldn’t take them if they were offered to me for free. Or maybe I would, just so I could flush them down the toilet to save some other hapless soul from taking it. But then again I have too much respect for my toilet.
One of those says
Yes, I’m one of the few ‘odd’ ones against the American Cancer Society. Wish you could expose IT for the total scam it is. Really, how many billions do they need to find a cure? It will never be “found” by the American Cancer Society I assure you. Too much money to be bilked in donations to disrupt that money train.
Lazy Man says
I’d rather do one on “Natural News” that you linked to here. I’ve started down that rabbit hole and it is UGLY.
How many billions do you need to start a colony in another solar system? Hell, we put a man on the moon almost 50 years ago and an Apple Watch has more computing power than they had in an entire room. How many billions has NASA spent? Why can’t I have lunch on Neptune this afternoon?
The above paragraph hopefully helped you understand that some things are very, very complex and people have very unrealistic expectations. Curing cancer is one of those things. Like the space program, we’ve made great strides in many areas. My best friend beat cancer 4-5 years ago now. It wasn’t because she took vitamins or suddenly ate healthy either.
Since bringing up putting a man on the moon. That man was Niel Armstrong. He died after a medical procedure done by a real Dr. Yes a medical procedure that was done by a real Dr. And charged real money for that procedure. His condition wasn’t just not fixed after this sale of this procedure. He was dead. Because he trusted his Dr. This happens all the time. How many cases of death have been reported due to vitamins minerals or supplements? I’m not claiming there are zero because I don’t know. But I can guarantee you direct result of deaths by Dr’s and medical procedure is way more common than by vitamin minerals and supplements. I mean think about it. He was alive now he is dead. This procedure by medical doctors/professionals killed him.
Lazy Man says
Wait… are you trying to say that humans (doctors) make mistakes over the course of history? That sounds hard to believe. I thought ever doctor healed every person, every time. Surely no one has ever died during a medical procedure.
I am further shocked that counterfeit money wasn’t used for the procedure. It was my impression that no one used “real money” ever.
Now that I have some of the sarcasm out of my system, let’s please try to have an IQ of 70 here.
If you get a bad gash and are bleeding do you go to the ER and get stitches? Of course, right? You don’t take vitamin C and let your blood continue to puddle on the floor, right?
The vitamin or supplement isn’t going to fix anything any more than just have a good diet is. By the time you need to get a medical procedure, things are more urgent.
Cars kill more people than sofas too, but that doesn’t mean you can commute to work in a sofa. I mean think about it… why aren’t people commuting to work in safe sofas instead of cars that have killed people?
This is a children’s article – written by a child mind.
Lazy Man says
Spinoza, this article is not intended for children. I may review ABC Mouse in a month or two, which may be what you are looking for.
You make me chuckle. Sounds like you trust the US gov’t (FDA, etc) to help you figure out what foods/supps/etc are good for you. Is this the same FDA that approves drugs (take a look at the money trail there…) only to take them off the market later because of too many injuries/deaths? The same FDA that takes the word of the MANUFACTURER of a drug for “scientific” studies of efficacy and safety? So sad that people without true knowledge can take up space on the internet…
Lazy Man says
You make me chuckle. It sounds like you use distrust of the FDA to support snake oil. The FDA does not take the word of the manufacturer of a drug, there are multiple levels of clinical trials.
On the other hand, you seem to be trusting the word of Youngevity (the manufacturer) for efficacy and safety with out any clinical useful trials.
Jessica, I couldnt find any testimonials for anything that wasnt form a seller or their own website. Which scared the hell out of me. And has actually solidified how I listen to shows like Coast to Coast. It’s like fangoria. And the products they promote, I very much have to do my own research to see if it is valid at all. Not saying its not, but in the vast ocean that is the Internet, HOW CAN I NOT FIND 1 GENUINE SITE WITH TESTIMONIALS. Closest I can find are amazon reviews. but even there, many seem fishy.
Anna Shandoz says
Hi Youngevity Corporate all just would like to let you know that at the bottom of youngevity promotion you can see the print out as follow :
* CALIFORNIA CONSUMERS – PROP 65 WARNING: These products contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.
CAN SOME ONE ADVICE ME…WHY IS THAT..?????