It is a seemingly never-ending battle to help prevent consumers from being scammed by MLM schemes. Today we look to examine another one of them: Youngevity.
I had a reader ask me about Youngevity the other day. We’ll call him Spike. He wrote:
“Have you done any research on the Youngevity products & Dr. Joel Wallach? I have been taking their Tangy Tangerine product as well as the EFA’s & Osteo FX over the last 3 months. I read your article on Lifevantage and was very impressed by the depth of your study. Just wanted to see if you have uncovered anything with Youngevity.”
I had never heard of Youngevity. However, having looked into other MLM scams, I know one of the first places to look at is the cost of the product. Why? Because MLMs often require their distributors buy product to participate in the opportunity. The artificially expensive product pays the company hefty margins, and distributors often pay the surcharge month after month as a fee for what they feel will make them money.
When I looked into the prices of Youngevity’s products, it had all the tell-tale signs of an MLM scam.
The Value of Tangy Tangerine
The first product that Spike mentioned was Tangy Tangerine, a 32 ounce drink that is highly packed with vitamins and minerals. At a cost of around $40 for a 30 day supply it is upwards of $1.25 per serving. I did a quick search on Amazon and found Optimum Nutrition Opti-Men Multivitamins (180-pack) , which was similarly highly packed with vitamins and minerals. I didn’t compare specifics of each nutrient, but it was close, more in some areas, less in others. The price on Amazon for Opti-Men is 10 cents a pill and 3 pills are in a serving, for a total of 30 cents a serving. So instead of paying $40 a month for Tangy Tangerine, you could be paying about $9-10 a month. Some of the reviews said Opti-Men was really powerful and there’s really no need to take three capsules, so you might find that you can save even more money by taking just one or two. (Side Note: The Opti-Men was the first thing I saw, I bet there’s an equivalent women’s version that is similar.)
Price per serving: $0.30 vs $1.25 in favor of Opti-Men. That’s a savings of a little more than 75%.
With Tangy Tangerine, another concern I have is with the marketing of this product. On the bottle it says “with 115 vegetables and fruits.” There are no fruit and vegetables in 500mg of powder and certainly not 115. Anyone buying into this claim should take a bottle to their doctor or medical professional (who isn’t affiliated with the MLM) and ask them if you can stop eating vegetables because you are getting 115 from Tangy Tangerine. I image they’ll find that humorous.
The Value of EPA Plus
Next up is EPA Plus. This supplement is like fish oil, but it is a blend of healthy oils like flaxseed. On the web I found it available for around $30 for 90 capsules, which is equivalent to 90 servings. That’s 30 cents a serving. So what’s the Amazon near equivalent?
It’s Omega 3-6-9 Gold. It has the mix of different sources of good fats as well. It is $13 for 180 capsules which turns out to be 7 cents a serving… and at 1200mg you are getting more product. Update: 12/30/2013: Looks like that product is currently unavailable from Amazon. However, I spent another 30 seconds coming up with a good alternative from Amazon:
NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9 1000mg. It is around $15 for 250 capsules… 6 cents per capsule. If you use Amazon’s Subscribe and Save, you can knock that down another 20% for a price of around $12.50.
Price per serving: $0.06 vs $0.30 in favor of NOW Foods Omega 3-6-9. That’s 1/5th the price or 80% off of the Youngevity price… and it gets even cheaper with Subscribe and Save.
The Value of Osteo Plus
At this point, I got a little tired of searching, so I literally took the first thing that I found on Amazon and it seemed close to the Osteo Plus blend. Specifically, I am referring to: Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. I had to look at another website to get the nutritional information on this product as it wasn’t nicely available on Amazon. The nutritional information shows a more diverse blend than Youngevity’s Osteo Plus, but with lower amounts of calcium and vitamin D. These are the big things you’d be looking for in a osteo complex, so it looks like a bad fit. However, keep in mind that the Opti-Men product above had additional calcium and vitamin D, plus there’s the nutrients that you get from your regular diet. That should make up any difference. OsteoPrime Plus is priced at $17 for 120 capsules. However with 4 capsules per serving that is a 30-day supply on Amazon. The price for Youngevity’s Osteo Plus online that I saw was $41 also for a 32-day supply.
Price per serving: $0.57 vs. $1.28 in favor of Enzymatic Therapy OsteoPrime Plus. This time the savings are closer to 55%.
I should mention that these don’t seem to be random products that Spike picked out. They all seem to be part of what is calls the Youngevity Healthy Start package. This $112 product has the 30-day supply of all three Youngevity products. The price of this is combination on this site and this site is $112 (as of 4/27/2012). The later makes it seem like it a value as it normally costs $159.00. At $112, that’s $3.73 a day. The price of the three items that I listed above: 94 cents a day. That’s a savings of between 67-75%… or between $689.85 and $1018.35 a year.
The typical case for MLM is that the quality of the MLM product is better than any you compare it to. Clearly if both products were identical Honda Accords you wouldn’t pay more. This puts the pressure on the MLM to prove that its product is significantly better. This is where they hire a couple of medical professionals as scientific experts, but the reality is that they are paid spokesmen. What you really need to know when it comes to vitamins is that there’s a non-profit organization that you can trust: the United States Pharmacopeia. You’ll find these products have USP Verified Dietary Supplement Mark on them. I’ve talked to a lot of pharmacists and they all say that this is the place to start and end your search for supplement quality… however many admitted to me that standards are generally so good they don’t look for it themselves and just buy the cheapest generic brand.
Absorption of Youngevity and other Vitamins
Some commenters have tried to ignore this point about the USP. When they do, they often say that cheap vitamins aren’t absorbed well or that liquid absorbs better. It’s worth noting that there are no studies on Youngevity’s products absorption. If Youngevity’s products do absorb better than its competitors and this is indeed an important factor, why is there zero analysis on it? Another thing to keep in mind is that when researchers and scientists are researching vitamins, they often don’t choose liquid sources or even state the brand of vitamins at all. Why would scientists/researchers time and again choose to go through all the trouble of conducting studies with products that are known to be poor? The answer is that they aren’t using poor products.
Consumer Reports addresses the absorption of liquid vs. solid vitamins:
“Q. My wife pays a premium for liquid vitamin and mineral supplements, which are supposedly better absorbed by the body. Are they worth the cost? —D.P., Sacramento, Calif.
A. Probably not, unless your wife has trouble swallowing solid supplements. In theory, liquid supplements should be better absorbed by the stomach since they’re already dissolved. But there has been little research to substantiate that idea. And at least some evidence has shown no meaningful difference.”
I’d add that even if she has trouble swallowing solid supplements, there’s amazing technology called pill crushing that has existed for years which solves this.
When it comes to Youngevity it is worth keeping in mind the “Can I Pay Less for Something of Similar Value?” game.
However, perhaps the biggest thing to consider is that recent research is showing that supplements may do more harm than good.
It simply doesn’t make any sense to spend more money on something that doesn’t seem to work in the first place.
Update (12/16/2013): The well-respected medical journal Annals of Internal Medicine says, “Enough is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements”.
This CNN article covered the situation well:
“The (vitamin and supplement) industry is based on anecdote, people saying ‘I take this, and it makes me feel better,’ said Dr. Edgar Miller, professor of medicine and epidemiology at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and co-author of the editorial.’ It’s perpetuated. But when you put it to the test, there’s no evidence of benefit in the long term. It can’t prevent mortality, stroke or heart attack’.”
Many of the smartest people in the world have done the research on hundreds and thousands of people and haven’t anything that helps, and even found that it could be dangerous.
“Doctor” Joel Wallach
It’s worth noting that Youngevity is associated with “Doctor” Joel Wallach. Who is he? According to Skepdic he is a veterinarian and a naturopath.
The American Cancer Society sums up what you need to know about Naturopathy: “Available scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease, since virtually no studies on naturopathy as a whole have been published.”[Update: When I wrote the article it seemed like a safe bet that most people would consider one of the largest non-profits/charity with the goal of rid the world of cancer reputable, but I’ve received a few comments from people, probably Youngevity distributors, that are to the effect of “This guy believes the American Cancer Society, now I know I can’t trust him.”
There are numerous other reputable sources that make the point that naturopathy is quackery, not supported by the proven scientific method. There’s a list of six accredited Naturopathic schools (at the time of this update) and not one of them is associated with any university you have likely heard of. If you are one of the few odd people who are against the American Cancer Society, the point about naturopathy being quackery is well established by other reputalbe institutions.]
I love animals and my aunt is a veterinarian, but I’m not taking advice for my own health from a veterinarian and person who bases their treatments on things that haven’t been scientifically proven. There are hundreds medical doctors in a few square miles from where I live that are hundreds of times more qualified that Wallach. I’d put nutritionists as more qualified when it comes to supplementation as well.
I put “Doctor” in quote when referring to Wallach, because he’s a doctor in the sense that my wife, who has a doctorate in pharmacy (she’s a pharmacist) is a doctor. It’s a fair title for her education, but she doesn’t use the doctor title, nor does anyone else.
That skepdic article on Wallach is very illuminating as it goes into various antics that he’s done over the years. It is clear that he’s misrepresenting himself and making up lies (woman in China who lived to be 250?”)
Does Youngevity Work?
Sorry, but Youngevity joins the long list of MLM products with distributors claiming there are miracle health cures. Why do people make such claims? If you read nothing else today, read this: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not “Work”
About Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research (INR) (Update: 3/01/2013)
A few commenters (mostly distributors) have asked about where I stand on the “Clemson study” on Youngevity products.
Reading the Clemson press release on the relationship with Youngevity is interesting. Here’s a key sentence: “[Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research] goals are to develop greater confidence in product quality, effectiveness and enhance consumer demand for quality nutraceutical products.” (emphasis on “enhance consumer demand” is my own)
You know what another word for “enhancing consumer demand” is? Marketing. In other words Clemson’s goal is to market nutraceutical products, and Youngevity pays them money for that. Ever hear of the rich person whose kid isn’t all that bright, but he got into the top college anyway? The school just happened to get a nice library donated by rich family. The parallels here are obvious.
On February 5th, 2013, I noted that the website for Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research is not functional. Some may argue that I have the wrong URL there, but if I do, Google does too from this screenshot. As of this update, March 1, 2013, the website is still not functional.
In addition to the website being down for nearly a month a Google search for Clemson Institute of Nutraceutical Research gives almost all results for Youngevity. I couldn’t find any other research it has done aside from Youngevity, which is an obvious red flag.
Lastly as Commenter Mark Harris pointed out, Clemson’s INR is not listed on Clemson’s list of over 100 institutes and research centers (as of 12/30/2013).
With the website being down for months, lack of information about other studies, and Clemson’s own failure to recognize it, is that it is hard to take the institute, and hence this research, seriously.
With that said, I feel it is important to address the Clemson “research” itself. With that in mind, let’s take a look at the press release from AL International. One of the first things that pops of the page is that they classify the work as clinical research. However, it is quite clear from the study that this is laboratory research done on test tubes and not clinical research done on humans.
When you mix something up that basic, it’s hard to have any trust in the rest of the “study.”
Much of the press release focused on product safety. While we should all be concerned about safety, vitamins are generally considered safe, so such research is not necessary. If you were to read a review of a $200,000 car saying that it got people from point A to point B without exploding, you would probably be suspicious why they are focusing on something that even cheap cars should be able to do. You don’t buy a Ferrari because it doesn’t spontaneously explode, you buy it because it supposed to deliver an advantage over other cars.
The other part of the article focused on kill cancer cells in a test tube (i.e. cell cultures). On the surface, this seems like compelling information. However, seven years ago we found acai killed cancer cells in a test tube. Not only acai, but according to this USDA article a number of foods kill cancer in test tubes. Heck, even pot slows cancer in tubes.
The important thing to take away here is that lots of things, including vitamins kill cancer in test tubes. Clemson could have saved a lot of time if they weren’t in the business of marketing Youngevity by looking at the existing research. This US News article:
Recent clinical trials, for example, suggest that supplements of single nutrients like vitamins B, C, and E and the mineral selenium do not, as once thought, prevent chronic or age-related diseases including prostate and other kinds of cancer. Some substances, like green tea and ginger, seem to have potential in preventing or helping to treat cancer, but they may also actually interfere with treatment or have other serious side effects. Meantime, countless substances that kill or slow the growth of cancer cells in a test tube have not shown that same success in human beings.
So Youngevity, and it’s various ingredients are added to the list of “countless substances that kill or slow growth of cancer cells in a test tube”, but “have not shown the same success in human beings.
Here’s a thought from a pharmacist that I know and trust: “Bleach kills cancer cells in a test tube… I’m not going to drink it any time soon.” She might have been joking with the last part, but the point is clear: We are not test tubes. Few test tubes read this article… and they aren’t concerned about cancer. Many more humans read this article and I presume they are more interested in the fact that the research does not show success for them.
Even Youngevity’s own brochure on the study comes with a disclaimer: “Clemson University only supports the statistical data and analysis provided here. Clemson University does not support, endorse, or sponsor Youngevity or any of its products. Clemson University and its researchers are not affiliated in any way
with Youngevity Essential Life Sciences.”
As commenter Vogel put it: “There you have it. According to Youngevity, Clemson’s only contribution to this misleading research was the statistical analysis of the data. They did not generate the data itself.”
However, I’d take it a step further and suggest that the brochure itself is a violation of the FDA rules for marketing supplements. The FDA has sent this this warning letter to Nature’s Pearl. It specifically states:
“When scientific publications are used commercially by the seller of a product to promote the product to consumers, such publications may become evidence of the product’s intended use. For example, under 21 CFR 101.93(g)(2)(iv)(C), a citation of a publication or reference in the labeling of a product is considered a claim about disease treatment or prevention if the citation refers to a disease use, and if, in the context of the labeling as a whole, the citation implies treatment or prevention of a disease.”
This brochure with “anti-cancer” prominently in the title and throughout the brochure appears to be evidence of the product’s intended use. The small box at the end of the brochure reading “These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease” should tell you everything you need to know about Youngevity and cancer in clear and in no uncertain terms.
Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.
Bottom Line: Clemson duplicated research that was already well known to be irrelevant in an attempt to provide marketing for Youngevity. They didn’t do any clinical trials (tests in humans) of the product, presumably because they knew in advance it wouldn’t have given the positive result that Youngevity paid for.
When Youngevity puts out a press release saying, “The INR is a national leader in nutritional research and one of the most highly regarded organizations in the field of phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals” it is clear that it is complete bovine excrement.
Clemson Update (March 2017)
Truth in Advertising has archived the Youngevity Pamphlet on the Clemson study and has added it to it’s Youngevity Health Claims Database. They wrote a great Youngevity information article themselves that you should read.
The Daily Beast wrote about Youngevity too. Specifically they noted “questionable Clemson University research”. The article went further to get Clemson to officially comment and Clemson spokesperson Robin Denny told The Daily Beast:
“Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research did some limited preliminary laboratory research for Youngevity several years ago. No clinical trials were performed and Clemson has in no way endorsed any Youngevity product nor authorized the use of Clemson’s name or data in conjunction with any claims of efficacy. The Institute no longer exists.”
I’m not a legal expert, but it sounds to me that the spokesperson is saying that Youngevity shouldn’t have produced the pamphlet.
Youngevity and Depleted Soil
It seems that Youngevity is coaching its distributors to say that today’s soil is depleted of vitamins and minerals in order to create demand for their product. It sounds plausible until you look at little deeper.
Behind the deception there is a nugget of truth, which is what they use to sell you down this erroneous line of thinking. There is some credible information that some soil is deficient of vitamins according to this Scientific American article that cites a few sources. It is far from conclusive. That’s problem #1 with the argument, but for sake of argument we’ll pretend it is conclusive. There are a lot more problems.
A Youngevity distributor pitching this has made the bad inference that because we might be getting less than before we aren’t getting enough. If McDonalds cut the calories of its Double Quarter Pounder you probably wouldn’t be looking to add more to make up for “a deficiency.” It’s quite possible we were getting more than we needed in the past and still get enough (which I will cover in a minute). That’s problem #2.
Next, there’s sufficient research that supplements are a waste of money. That’s analysis of dozens of different studies on hundreds of thousands of people. Conspiracy theorists will say that article is biased or created by a “sickness industry”, but these people have no answer for why the same doctors and scientists put their loved through chemotherapy if vitamins and minerals actually worked. Getting back to the article, the conclusion was:
“The large body of accumulated evidence has important public health and clinical implications. Evidence is sufficient to advise against routine supplementation, and we should translate null and negative findings into action. The message is simple: Most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death, their use is not justified, and they should be avoided. This message is especially true for the general population with no clear evidence of micronutrient deficiencies, who represent most supplement users in the United States and in other countries.… we believe that the case is closed— supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful.“
I’ve added emphasis to three important parts. Supplements are not advised… problem #3. There is no evidence of micronutrient deficiencies in the United States and in other countries. This supports the point I made above in problem #2… we get enough. In fact, the people who are looking into Youngevity are probably those who are health-conscious and thus more likely to have a healthy diet that is devoid of deficiencies.
The final point the article makes is that supplements might even be harmful. That’s problem #4. You not only don’t appear to be helping yourself, but you might even be hurting yourself.
I’ve heard people try to discount that article and the science. They do everything can (like the “sickness industry” I mentioned above). I can’t understand how these people believe in some science and not others. They’ll take the whole thing about depleted soil as a given even though there’s far less analysis of that and throw out all the science about vitamins and minerals not being helpful. It’s as if they want to believe in addition, but not multiplication. It simply doesn’t make any sense to pick and choose arbitrarily.
Now let’s get to problem #5. Back in the Scientific American article they presented a solution to the depleted soil problem. It wasn’t supplements. “… foregoing pesticides and fertilizers in favor of organic growing methods is good for the soil, the produce and its consumers. Those who want to get the most nutritious fruits and vegetables should buy regularly from local organic farmers.”
And then there is problem #6 to this argument. It doesn’t give anyone a reason to buy Youngevity’s overpriced supplements (using the above analysis).
Vogel brings up another 7 more problems with depleted soil in this comment. Specifically:
- the main study cited, “did not look at any measurements of nutrient levels in soil”
- “the authors did not conclude that that the apparent decline in nutrient levels was attributable to soil depletion… that a difference in the strains being cultivated, not soil depletion, was the probable cause of the apparent decline in nutrient levels”
- “Some of the nutrients that apparently declined were only marginally lower, which is not likely to be clinically relevant”
- an apple from the 1950s might have higher levels of alar and DDT and other banned pesticides
- improvements in transportation allow for better access to a variety of fruits than in the 1950s.
- the diet in the 1950s was not very good (“potatoes and iceberg lettuce” cited), there is much more nutritional awareness today.
- “… diseases due to dietary nutritional deficiencies (like scurvy, rickets, beri beri, pellagra, etc.) were not uncommon in the 50s but have now been virtually eradicated in the U.S. due to improvements in standard of living and diet.”
About Youngevity’s Parent Company
One thing that came out of the Clemson research that I initially overlooked (I felt it was more important to focus on the product), is that the company is owned by AL International, a publicly traded company that is a penny stock. On January 25th, when the Clemson “research” press release came out, the stock was trading at 16.5 cents a share (I didn’t realize the stock market took ha’pennies). The total value of the company was 65 million dollars, less than some athletes sign for over 2-3 years. Stock prices vary and after the Clemson marketing, Youngevity got the desired result, a significant bump in stock price as penny stocks can do at times. (Note: they can drop just as quickly and are not very good investments.)
I tried to give a fair review to Youngevity based on its products in general, but as I’ve found in every MLM that I’ve looked at, the organization usually is centered around a few charlatans.
Update: I was pointed towards this great first person account with Youngevity. It is extremely long and detailed, but well worth your time if you are considering buying these products or getting into the business. The author actually became a nutritionist because Youngevity’s Wallach was slandering doctors making them seem untrustworthy all why claiming that their “glacial milk” was the answer. Here are some great quotes:
“So rather than just believing the bunch of facts and figures that were thrown at me by my lecturers, I approached the claims that Wallach had made by asking ‘where is the evidence?’ What I discovered was that Wallach’s claims were not only inaccurate but they were nothing more than very clever lies, designed to lull vulnerable people into a false sense of security in order to relieve them of their money.”
“I had also come across a handful of people from the church who had been approached by AL distributors claiming to cure them of their health conditions, many of them who had received no benefit but were too shy or ashamed to let their story be heard. Funnily enough, it was only those who for whatever reason, believed that they had been cured, whose testimonials were given at meetings and printed on the plethora of AL’s advertising material.”
“… I should simply stand up and ask Wallach why he was misleading people and to question him in front of the audience (of several hundred people) and the cameras. I did of course, which resulted in my swift removal (including being physically dragged out and thrown down a flight of stairs)…”
The story is truly amazing and should make it very clear that it best to avoid Youngevity and its marketing tactics that aren’t properly supported by any real evidence.
Kim K. says
What are your credentials???? Have you tried the products or know anyone who has??? I have and know people who have and have been healed or helped so don’t nay say if you don’t know, you are denying those skeptics their good health!!!!!
Lazy Man says
Youngevity products don’t heal anyone.
I have been on Beyond Tangy Tangerine now for 6 months. I have taken all kinds of supplementation for years, as I am an herbalist. I went to the Dr’s and they said I was sub-clinical, which meant that they couldn’t help me until I got worse. I gave up and began doing the leg work myself. Nothing has affected me like BTT. I am now beginning to be able to sing again. I had a sore throat since 2004 and nothing, I mean nothing was able to rid my body of this auto-immune problem.My hair started falling out and nails splitting and chipping, skin so dry it hut. So, I would wager to say that if you have not had a health problem and tried the Youngevity yourself, then please don’t spill your unvalidated words on the Internet,. I KNOW it works because I’m better than I have been in years. The exhaustion has left and so have the hot flashes, heart palpations, and red raw sore throat. I’m a believer.
Dr Wallach is veternarian turned doctor and discovered we were all mineral deficient. The reason these products work is because they are made from minerals that our bodies can assimilate. Be blessed!
Please, please don’t bad mouth Youngevity. I’ve been with MLM companies before and this is the only company that you don’t have to buy a product get more. The membership is $10 for life and you get the same price as the distributor.
Lazy Man says
Youngevity is not a medicine and didn’t heal your sore throat: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/no-your-mlm-health-product-does-not-work/.
I think something is wrong with there where you say that “you don’t have to buy a product get more.” It’s pretty weird to not have to buy a product to get more if that’s what you were intending to say.
I just need to say that this article is very opinionated. The fact IS that our bodies have the knowledge and ability to repair themselves, but they need 90 essential vitamins and minerals DAILY to be able to do that. Another fact IS that we no longer get those vitamins and nutrients from our food supply. So unless your supplemnting, youre not gonna get them. If you supply your bodies with them, it will be able to begin to repair itself. Another thing is this….You cant believe everything that people of “authority” tell you. Just because an M.D. says something about nutrition doesnt mean squat. Fact IS, MD’s have no business in nutritional health or the treatment of Chronic illness. MD’s are good for trauma and major surgury. Period. End of story. Back to not believing everything people say because they are the “authority”. Here is an example. 600 years ago, everyone and their mother, including the HIGHEST of all scientific institutions believed the earth was flat. Anyone who went against that “fact” was labled as crazy and nuts. “The world cant be round, you’ll fall off the bottom” they said. I mean, if that example doesnt open the author of this articles eyes, then nothing will….
Lazy Man says
If you want to supplement, I showed some supplements that give you the same value at a much lower price.
If you want to believe the numerous research articles, supplementation doesn’t help.
Yes, I’d rather trust an M.D. over a veterinarian like Wallach. There’s a reason why top schools have M.D. programs.
Research showed that the earth was not flat. Research shows that supplementation does not help. You are belief is similar to that of the world being flat because it isn’t supported by what science tells us. It is equivalent to you believing that the earth is flat today, even though we know it is not.
When comparing products, I noticed u didn’t take the time to compare ingredients in both? To me that cancels out any research you have done. The reason for Youngevity products is bc the Doctors that we are supposed to trust are not trustworthy! If they were they would be telling us how to cure diseases, and yet the only turn to prescription meds that only treat ur symptoms and therefore have u going back consistently to pay for their high priced lavish lifestyles! It’s a monopoly industry which will never tell u the truth bc if they did, they wud no longer be in business!
Lazy Man says
The ingredients of the products were similar enough to not change the analysis. If you feel otherwise, please show an example comparison and show me why.
The proven quack who pushes Youngevity is not a trustworthy doctor.
They turn to prescription medications, because it’s the only thing that been shown to work.
Speaking of lavish lifestyles, what do you think of spending 4x more for a similar product gives the people who own Youngevity? If I owned a gas station and charged you $15 a gallon for gas, you’d be livid, but you accept it from Youngevity?
Not sure if a skeptic ever really gets it. As for how and why doctors or MDs gained an upper hand, ready any of solid histories of the Flexnor Report and the monopoly that came from that is a good way to go. As for Youngevity and alternatives, after much research the only optional supplements must be organic, chelated or colloidal, but NOT synthetic. I have narrowed down some alternatives to Youngevity, but moving to liquid, not tablet is good when possible. Finally, given the testimonials within and among users of Youngevity, using non synthetics is truly impressive among those who have tried other products and THEN this one. I DO agree that, it would be useful to find quality product competition to Youngevity, or if necessary start such a company!! Best
Lazy Man says
You should always be skeptic of something unless it is proven to work. If you aren’t prepared to do your research, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Don’t be skeptical, it is a great bridge.
Doctors and MDs gained an upper hand by putting in the work and years of study that others weren’t willing to do.
Vitamins are chemically the same however you slice it. You can see the molecular structure of vitamin C here. When it is the same to the smallest components like that, you have to come up with more proof than “synthetic is not an option” (paraphrased). As Consumer Reports notes, liquid vitamins have not shown to be better.
As this article points out, testimonials in MLM products are not reliable, since they are all exaggerated and unrealistic for dozens of MLMs
It cured my cancer the doctor said would kill me in 6 months now my doctor takes it! Not all doctors just take prescription drugs.
Lazy Man says
Prove that it cured your cancer. Who is your doctor? Put his name and contact information down so we can confirm your story.
John Doe says
Don’t knock it, till you’ve tried it. I used to feel like shit everyday, depressed felt like my head was clouded over and had headache’s. I switched to a vegan diet and have been talking this stuff to. I feel AWSOME!! I bought mine on EBay. In my opinion it’s better then taking ” head Meds” everyday which made me feel worse. I now feel in better spirits. I don’t see my life and society to dark.
Bob Hamilton says
You sound more like a know it jackass to me…how you going to tell people that its not fixing whatever problem they may have had. You have no idea whether it did or did’nt help a problem. I can see that your a skeptic of everything and think you know everything. Internet evidence ” research” doesn’t necessarily prove anything. It’s funny how you totally blow off the lady that offered you to open your mind to a different outlook, but no you didn’t want to hear any of that because it may change your thoughts on this product. Either way I know a know it all like yourself will have some so called intelligent come back ( in your mind, anyway). to what I’ve said. I’ve actually done the REAL research of this product and actually tried it. I noticed a difference in my energy from the first bottle full that I drank, it has helped me feel more alive. I’m an old man, but after taking BTT I feel like a younger me. So I say to those of you looking for answer to whether this stuff works…. Yes it does! I did my research…. And as for you Sir, Lazyman you sound like you need a glass it would wake you out of your negative- know-it-all coma that your in. There’s my 2 cents. Have a good day I know mine will be great.
Lazy Man says
The vegan diet makes more sense than Youngevity helping. Of course just doing something that makes you think you are being healthy is going to lift your spirits and probably help too.
If a person said that they have the Loch Ness Monster in their backyard you’d want proof. In covering various health MLMs, I’ve seen these claims hundreds of times and it turns out that no one has been able to provide proof. Dr. Bowden sees the false claims too. Maybe you think he’s a know-it-all jackass too? I don’t see any oncologists recommending any MLM products, Youngevity included, as an aid in helping with cancer.
I’m not a skeptic of everything, if you’ve read my site, you certainly would know that is the furthest thing from the truth. I don’t claim to know everything, but I do know that there is no evidence that any Youngevity product has helped a person with their cancer.
It was the lady that blew me off to open her mind to look at the rest of the industry and the claims for all the MLM products. I’m happy to change my thought on Youngevity as soon as someone comes up with an explanation of why all the other MLM products aren’t miracle cures and that Youngevity is different, or shows why they are all miracle cures that somehow only share a common distribution system.
If you are an old man, you have probably gathered the wisdom to understand the placebo effect. If not please look it up. Feeling younger is a state of mind and congratulations to you for it. It doesn’t mean Youngevity or BTT works. It can have negative side effects though, please refer to No Your MLM Health Product Does Not Work.
MLMers… If a product is working for you who cares what anyone else thinks? A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. I am thinking trying the tangy tangerine and selenium for a subclinical gall stone issue. As Wallach says, I have everything to gain and nothing to lose. But I am still doing my due diligence (why I am visiting here). If it worked, I would keep buying it, if not I wouldn’t.
Lazy Man says
There’s a good point about “who cares what anyone else thinks?”, but there’s an equally compelling point that there’s no reason to “keep a closed mind” on the subject.
What I present in this article is not opinions but the actual realities of the comparative products and the state of science amongst them.
It is worth noting that people aren’t often able to determine if something works or not. Regarding dietary supplements, it can lead to unhealthy behavior.
You see, it’s not as easy saying “stick with it if it works for you.” Your perception of “working” and reality of “working” are very likely different things. I’d like to stress that this isn’t what I think, but what scientists and their research tells them. It isn’t my opinion.
I highly recommend watching this video about being open-minded when it comes to scientific concepts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T69TOuqaqXI
Lazy Man says
If anyone is curious why I asked Richie to provide proof of his claim that Youngevity cured his cancer, it’s well worth watching this video:
As you can see, I was just being open-minded, and willing to consider the new idea that Ritchie presented… as long as he presented the evidence to back it up.
As the video shows with the ghost/lampshade analogy, it is actually those who take testimonies without evidence that are being closed-minded to scientific principles. Many of those scientific principles are laid out here: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/no-your-mlm-health-product-does-not-work/
Nash Savoy says
Lazy Man, your loyalty to scientific research is a bit frightening. Forget open mindedness, do you even have a single, independent thought? You repeatedly claim that what you say is not your opinion, but rather its what science tells you. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but when you accept something as your truth – claimed by science or otherwise – it becomes your opinion, so at least be man enough to stand behind your own words and quit pretending it is a reality that applies to all of us. Additionally, information reported by science is not fact. It is theory. Any scientist will tell you that. Much of what science has reported one day is contradicted by later research – especially as it relates to health and medicine. Furthermore, often the scientific research the medical community relies upon for diagnosing and treating today’s diseases and disorders is conducted/funded by the pharmaceutical corporations who rely upon the billions of dollars worth of annual profits. Your wife, who you claim is a pharmacist, should be able to tell you that. Though its likely you will only believe her if she provides you with scientific evidence.
The good news is that there are those of us in the world who do think for ourselves and do not accept everything we hear or read, whether it comes from a journalist, a doctor, a scientist or anyone else. Especially as it relates to health, humans have an inherent sense that is neither taught academically nor reported scientifically. Science does not have the insight into my body that I have. The feedback my body provides me is more reliable science than any research out there. My body is very sensitive to certain foods for example and if I indulge in those foods, symptoms manifest. A doctor would tell me to take a pill like Prilosec and probably be rewarded by his pharm salesperson for writing another scrip. I, on the other hand, listen to my body, rather than ignore it. I avoid the foods that my body reacts adversely to and instead nourish my body with healthy, organic, fresh, whole foods and yes, supplements. It is simple science – and quite effective. There are lobbyists out there now attempting to “report science” that claims there is no health benefit to organic foods. I don’t care what science says about it. I know better from vivid, personal experience. I don’t need science to validate my personal health choices. The physical rewards I continue to enjoy are more than sufficient.
There was a time when I became very frustrated when I would read an article such as yours or, for example, when I saw an ad by a pharmaceutical company that was peddling pills directly to the consumer for depression, anxiety, ADHD, etc., Now I am thankful because the industry is revealing its own true nature. The greed factor is just so plainly obvious. Now people can’t help but realize that the way patients of today’s medicine are being neglected, abused, over-medicated, and misled by a profession that chronically compromises the well being of its patients. Decisions are being made primarily based on insurance and profit. Necessary procedures, medicines, and hospital stays are denied for coverage reasons and unnecessary procedures, medicines, and hospital stays are being prescribed for coverage reasons. What’s best for the patient is secondary, at best, and in some instances, altogether ignored. It’s not health care. Yet those of us who refuse to participate in it and instead choose to be responsible for our own health – as intended – are being accused of being unreasonable, closed minded, and crazy, by people like you. It is the precisely the other way around. You need not respond to this. I understand that you remain on the side of science and because I do take supplements, you will attribute my perspective to the fact that I take supplements and as you previously stated, that can “lead to unhealthy behavior”. I say with confidence that the pills your beloved science (and your wife) peddles leads to a whole lot funkier and liver corroding behavior than any supplements I take.
Lazy Man says
I find your disregard for scientific research frightening. If it wasn’t for scientific research we wouldn’t have the tools to even have this communication.
Sorry, but in the world of science the reality is simply the reality. You can hold an opinion that the world is flat and you may choose to live in that reality fearing oceans, but that doesn’t make it true.
I’m not here to say that the reality of a round world applies to all of us… apparently it seems like it might not for you, because you’d regard that information from science as theory and not fact. However, I am saying that the reality of a round world should apply to you, giving the information that we have from science. If you want to ignore that science and pretend it doesn’t exist, making up some other reality you are welcome to enjoy your own little land of cognitive dissonance.
Where I have a problem is when snake oil salesmen try to push something that isn’t scientifically shown to be true to defraud people out of their money.
Nash said, “Much of what science has reported one day is contradicted by later research – especially as it relates to health and medicine.”
It seems like you are essentially saying that science and research in health and medicine is useless, because it is going to be contradicted by research in the future. If that’s the case, we’ve been pretty lucky to continually extend our life expectancy repeatedly year after year, despite the fact that we don’t eat as healthy.
Nash said, “Furthermore, often the scientific research the medical community relies upon for diagnosing and treating today’s diseases and disorders is conducted/funded by the pharmaceutical corporations who rely upon the billions of dollars worth of annual profits.”
If supplement companies, who also make billions of dollars, want to do the scientific research for diseases and disorders, they are welcome to. Youngevity itself is welcome to. If they don’t want to spend their money to show their products help against diseases and disorders, that should be all the evidence you need.
Any logical person will take the belief of the Tim Minchin’s character this 10 minute movie, Storm. If you show the me and the FDA that it works, I’ll be happy to stand corrected and even include a big box at the front of this article that further research has shown that whatever it is now true.
Nash, “The good news is that there are those of us in the world who do think for ourselves and do not accept everything we hear or read, whether it comes from a journalist, a doctor, a scientist or anyone else.”
That sounds like anything but good news, it sounds like a recipe for disaster. Who needs doctors who spend their whole lives studying this stuff? Clearly whatever time you can put in pondering it after job, family, friends, etc. is going to yield great results. Those results would obviously be better than experimentation from scientists. And you can never trust those journalistic folk either… they are never write which is why everyone knows that every magazine is a scam.
Nash, “Science does not have the insight into my body that I have. The feedback my body provides me is more reliable science than any research out there. My body is very sensitive to certain foods for example and if I indulge in those foods, symptoms manifest.”
Science actually has better insight into your own body. There is a thing called the placebo effect that’s been well-documented for dozens, even hundreds of years. The feedback that your body is reporting is like an optical illusion. You think that a product is working, but it isn’t.
“A doctor would tell me to take a pill like Prilosec and probably be rewarded by his pharm salesperson for writing another scrip. I, on the other hand, listen to my body, rather than ignore it. I avoid the foods that my body reacts adversely to and instead nourish my body with healthy, organic, fresh, whole foods and yes, supplements.”
I’m pretty sure that if you went to the doctor and reported a bad reaction to a certain food, he/she would not push you a pill, but recommend you don’t eat it. Science can tell people who have peanut allergies to stay away, and can even give them life-saving medicine in the off-chance they happen to eat a cookie with peanuts by accident.
“There are lobbyists out there now attempting to ‘report science’ that claims there is no health benefit to organic foods. I don’t care what science says about it. I know better from vivid, personal experience. I don’t need science to validate my personal health choices. The physical rewards I continue to enjoy are more than sufficient.”
Your vivid personal experience could be the placebo effect. Perhaps because you are thinking are doing something healthier, your brain produces more chemicals to encourage it, and all of a sudden you have a vivid personal experience.
Nonetheless, that’s where you can make your own personal choice. Feel free to buy the products and foods that make you happy. I couldn’t stop you if I wanted to. However, don’t pretend that your personal experience is representative of reality and that it’s worth spreading to others. If you are getting paid for spreading it, such as being a Youngevity distributor, you are violating the FTC guidelines.
Nash said, “There was a time when I became very frustrated when I would read an article such as yours or, for example, when I saw an ad by a pharmaceutical company that was peddling pills directly to the consumer for depression, anxiety, ADHD, etc., Now I am thankful because the industry is revealing its own true nature. The greed factor is just so plainly obvious. Now people can’t help but realize that the way patients of today’s medicine are being neglected, abused, over-medicated, and misled by a profession that chronically compromises the well being of its patients. Decisions are being made primarily based on insurance and profit. Necessary procedures, medicines, and hospital stays are denied for coverage reasons and unnecessary procedures, medicines, and hospital stays are being prescribed for coverage reasons. What’s best for the patient is secondary, at best, and in some instances, altogether ignored. It’s not health care.”
Maybe you read a different article than the one I wrote, because I most certainly didn’t write on any of those topics that you presented. You can catch my rants about insurance and many of these things on other articles that I’ve written. We agree on many of these things…. but they aren’t relevant to Youngevity. These are closer to health care than Youngevity is. It is an attempt at health care and despite what you might think, it does work a vast majority of the time.
If you want to create a better system, then please go and do it. That’s what these people are doing. You’ll notice that they aren’t saying, “We’ll just cure everything with Youngevity.” That isn’t health care.
Nash said, “Yet those of us who refuse to participate in it and instead choose to be responsible for our own health ‘as intended’ are being accused of being unreasonable, closed minded, and crazy, by people like you. It is the precisely the other way around. You need not respond to this. I understand that you remain on the side of science and because I do take supplements, you will attribute my perspective to the fact that I take supplements and as you previously stated, that can ‘lead to unhealthy behavior’. I say with confidence that the pills your beloved science (and your wife) peddles leads to a whole lot funkier and liver corroding behavior than any supplements I take.”
It’s fine to participate in your own health, but yes, you would be closed-minded to ignore the advice of experts. It’s like the saying about trying to be your own lawyer, you’ve got a fool for a client.
Even if you take supplements, my point is that you shouldn’t pay Youngevity’s prices for them. If you took away a message of “you shouldn’t take supplements” as the main point from this article, you seriously missed the point.
My wife doesn’t peddle any pills, she inspects health care facilities to ensure that they are up to code and that people are getting proper treatment. Not all pharmacists work at CVS or at hospitals.
I’m going to respond to this, because I trust in the science that when I type all this all and click on a button on a webpage, it will show up. I know you know that this relies on many complex scientific processes taking place and thus is something that you can’t support, so I doubt you’ll ever read it.
People should listen to dr peter glidden ”who made md’s king? lecture on youtube and then you will see the true meaning behind youngevity.
Well i heard about them on the alex jones show who also had both dr wallach and dr glidden on his show as guests.
I didnt pay much attention to them and you could say i hadn’t fully woke up.
But now i have, i’m in the uk so it’s abit more expensive to buy youngevity products and so i’ve been trying to buy the same stuff but i’ve only found tablet forms of multi vit and mins.
So i started taking the 1 a day of wellman and didn’t see much of a result apart from i had a nasty spider bit on my leg which healed better but i did notice that over a 2 month period i never had mild piles until i ran out of them due to having no money and the piles came back.
I started listening to glidden and what he was saying about selenium and also have taking enough dosage.
My father brought some selenium from the local shops and i started taking 200mcg a day and within less than 2 weeks my skin has gone nice and supple the dry skin on my butt and legs which for years i’ve had is finally going, i’m so pleased could cry, who’d have thought just a few tablets of selenium would solve my skin problems and spots on the back of my neck which i’ve had for years have started to go, also i have a lump on my gum under a capped tooth and the dentist said it was root absorption it’s been like this for at least 9 month and this lump is now going down, not sure what this means but i think it can only be a good thing, because only a week or so before i was taking the selenium in 200mcg form it was getting bigger and i was starting to get pain from it and i was getting paranoid about it getting loose because it was making cliking noises when i touched it, but now it’s stopped making the clicks, by the looks of it i’ve saved my tooth from coming out
I’ve started taking wellman again but i’ve increased the dosage to 2 a day and i then saw my urine turn floresent yellow a sign of vit b being absorbed.
Now i understand the importance of vitamins and minerals it’s blown my mind just what a big difference they make.
When i’m able to afford the youngevity products i will get some, because they are the true pioneers in vitamins and mineral research, in the time being i’m listening very carefully and paying attention!
The md’s are the quacks, race for the cancer cure, yeah how about stop putting cancer viruses in the vaccines and get all of the flaming aspartame out of the diet pop!
Oh let me see you won’t do that, because thats part of the nwo plan to slow kill the world population, the elites own the medical and banking systems!
A few facts to note selenium prevents the occurance of breast cancer by 82% prostate cancer by 69% and wallach had to sue the fda to say that!
At the end of the day they are telling you the truth, i owe my future health to both dr joel wallach and dr peter glidden.
If they wanted to scam people they’d have joined the md’s medical tyranny and made billions not millions, and i don’t think dr glidden makes millions and even if he did he deserves every penny!
Your health is your health if you want to going through life slowly degrading until you die then thats up to you, but i now know it doesn’t have to be like that, a degrading life is truly avoidable.
Please remember that they are not curing you, they are just giving your body what it’s been waiting for since your birth and your body will CURE ITSELF!!
Lazy Man says
Wow Jim, Alex Jones and his friends got you brainwashed good.
If you like what you claim Selenium has done for you, why would you go to Youngevity products? Selenium is very cheap.
As for the bright yellow urine, this is common from any multivitamin, Youngevity isn’t anything special here. I’ve gotten it from drinking a Rockstar energy drink (no I don’t typically drink energy drinks), due to the vitamins in there. Give it an internet search and you’ll even find MSN articles like this one that says, “And don’t worry: That brightly colored urine means you’re simply pissing away all of your expensive supplements.”
Sorry, but if you think doctors are putting cancer viruses in vaccines and giving it to their own children, you really need to re-examine everything you were thinking.
If you know of any doctors making billions, let me know. Maybe one or two like Dr. Oz with a TV show might make a hundred million, but doctors aren’t making billions. They aren’t making the kind of money that Wallach is in scamming people with his pet doctor degree.
Nash Savoy says
Lazyman, just for the record, I do not take Youngevity. I’ve never even heard of it until yesterday when I stumbled upon this site.
While I continue to be grateful for much of what science has provided us with, including the ability to communicate as we are doing, the “facts” of science are secondary to the laws of nature. Gravity, and our round world pre-existed science’s identification of them – as is true for most of what science “discovers”. So back when people debated about the world’s shape – it remained round. Nature is impeccable, while science is flawed. I am all for science working with and honoring nature to make the world a better place. However, I find it rather arrogant and reckless when science is used for profit or power and defies nature or presumes to know better than nature under the guise of making the world a better place. Science has undoubtedly produced very positive benefits, which continues to enhance our understanding and our experience in the world. It has also produced very negative and hurtful consequences, which on its own, goes against the very grain of nature and equally against our very nature as human beings.
If you are so humbled by evidence, there is solid evidence scattered throughout our universe that displays nature’s perfection – and dare I say – nature’s miracle. It doesn’t show graphs or spreadsheets or offer statistics. It doesn’t boast itself at all. It just is its perfection – every second of every day. It is true and real, just as you claim with science, regardless of whether or not people recognize it as such. While there is no harm in acknowledging science’s ability to validate nature’s own exquisiteness, a person’s unwillingness to face the evidence of nature’s own flawlessness and look instead to science, is sad and rather tragic.
Re; your infatuation with doctors (and don’t even get me started on lawyers). Doctors may take the time to study medicine, but human beings have flaws. There are amazing, decent, pure-hearted and gifted human beings among us, some of which are doctors. There are also misguided, selfish, dishonest, greedy human beings among us, some of which are doctors. A medical degree does not exempt a jerk from being a jerk, so to speak. He is just a more highly educated jerk – and perhaps a more dangerous one than he would be without his medical degree. Regardless of a person’s education – medical degree or otherwise – people still need to maintain their sense of self and their sense of others. It is not healthy advice to tell someone to “trust your doctor” without first knowing if that doctor is trustworthy. It implies, “trust your doctor no matter what.” There are plenty of doctors who are simply not trustworthy – just as there are plenty of other people who are not trustworthy – especially when it comes to the health and well being of another person. I am not so much picking on doctors here, but rather applying practical truth to the myth that portrays a distinction between doctors and other human beings. Fundamentally, there is no distinction at all. Having a medical degree does not erase whatever character flaws he or she had prior to obtaining a medical degree.
Although it is rare, I do go to the doctor, but I certainly do not depend or rely on his word without accessing my own sense of myself and making my own final judgment. In the end, only I am responsible for myself, whether I ignore or submit to a doctor’s advice. I’ve ignored doctors advice many times in the past and have successfully encouraged others to do the same when circumstances called for it. I am grateful for my ability to think and make my own decisions because it has saved me my health and maybe even a body part or two.
My mother was advised to have a hysterectomy – back in the 80’s when they were very trendy. I advised her to think it through and solicit a second opinion. I referred her to a doctor friend of mine (one of the good, kind, honest ones) who only urged patients toward surgery if it was absolutely necessary – as a last resort. These days such a doctor is rare. He advised her NOT to have the procedure. She never had the hysterectomy. I don’t know what science says about my mother’s situation – nor do I care. I just know that to this day, my mother is very grateful because most of her friends had the procedure and have suffered in one way or another for having done so and of course, my mother has not suffered at all. Perhaps a silly example. I have many others, but I will spare you my experiential evidence, since it is not scientific – and therefore not evidence at all.
Again, I don’t take Youngevity products, but I have to ask you – Don’t you think that at least in part, the aggressive campaign AGAINST natural remedies might have to do with the enormous profit that would be compromised if consumers discovered valid, healthier, and more effective alternatives to conventional medicine? Isn’t it safe to say that there are some financially powerful folks – some who maintain obscene wealth – who stand to lose a lot of money if consumers realized how self-reliant they are capable of becoming and how profoundly they can influence their own health? If people discovered the vast benefits – physically and psychologically – of simply taking better care of themselves by eating better, avoiding certain foods and toxins, exercising and yes, in some instances taking natural supplements, then they would be less dependent on doctors and meds – consequently, people who are very comfortably rich – to an extent that most of us can’t even imagine – would suffer enormous financial losses. The rich love human dependency because they continue to get rich from it – dependency on television, junk food, fast food, cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, welfare, and even medicine. Somehow the trail leading to the profits made by human dependency will always lead to the super rich – the corporations and its CFOs who love folks like you who advise others to blindly trust science and doctors and medicine and avoid the “scams of natural health” or any other “scams” that would prompt self reliance and therefore compromise the billions made by multiple forms of human dependency which fills their pockets with gold. In truth, it certainly isn’t even the doctors who are getting rich – in the scheme of things. The doctors are just mere puppets whose strings are being pulled by the super rich who control, among other things, science and the medical industry and of course control the media, so they have naive people like you who inadvertently perpetuate it all and kaching-kaching – while the sheep dutifully go shopping at wal-mart, eat at McDonald’s, drop by Walgreen’s to pick up a prescription for anxiety and the world goes round…
Sorry – had no intention of being so long winded.
Lazy Man says
Nash, I thank you for the comment. You clarified a lot of what you said prevously and I appreciate it. I offer you an even longer response in return.
It looks like you are trying to draw a line between science and the laws of nature. I find that very hard to do. For example, I’m not sure whether you could say that penicillin was pre-existing when science discovered it. It might have existed by accident, but it was science that figured out how to apply it for mankind’s benefit. It certainly wasn’t like gravity or the earth being round that was “there.”
You could say the same of vaccines. They are an example of science realizing that (typically) if you take something that causes a disease and give a person a little of it (or weaker version of it), he/she will grow an immunity that will protect them from that disease. That was hardly something that was pre-existing, but the scientific discovery allows us to live a much longer lifespan. In fact, I’m happy to say that no one I know has ever had small pox and I’m willing to bet you could say the same thing.
Nash, you put it best when you said, “Science has undoubtedly produced very positive benefits, which continues to enhance our understanding and our experience in the world.” This is why I support science. Sure, you can make a terrible bomb using the same science, but in the world of medicine we don’t have to worry about that… everyone shares a unified goal in destroying disease.
While you are talking about nature, I’d like to reflect on what the great George Carlin once said about it:
I think you are wrong about nature’s miracle not showing itself it graphs and spreadsheets. If you look into the golden ratio, you’ll see that it is in branches along the stems of plants and of veins in leaves, skeletons of animals and the branchings of their veins and nerves, and even to proportions of chemical compounds and the geometry of crystals.
Nature’s miracle is greatly explained by math and science. In fact, if something proposed by science violates the laws the nature, it is always quickly disproven.
Nash said, “While there is no harm in acknowledging science’s ability to validate nature’s own exquisiteness, a person’s unwillingness to face the evidence of nature’s own flawlessness and look instead to science, is sad and rather tragic.”
I’d like to say that science doesn’t oppose nature here. If millions of people are dying of small pox, where in nature should we look for the cure? The answer is in the small pox vaccine. We can look at other areas of nature such as vitamin C, but it simply doesn’t work. Some natural things (small pox vaccine) work better than others (vitamin C).
I’m willing to embrace anything of nature that is shown to work. It’s worth noting that we are having this conversation using man’s augmentation of the natural element silicon (as well as some others), while we could instead be having it via something that one would consider more natural, a carrier pigeon. I’m thinking we’ve improved on “the more natural” alternative quite a bit. Finally, we could each try to communicate by screaming into the nearest rock, but it turns out that just because something is natural, it doesn’t mean it works. I emphasize this a few times, because it is the most important point to grasp.
Your point about doctors being human above… I’m going to paraphrase what you said when you left your first comment here… “Nash, your fear of humans is a bit frightening.”
That said, we know that doctors have flaws… we know that researchers have flaws… we know that humans have flaws. That’s why science has checks and balances in place. A doctor who is a jerk (to use your words) can’t manipulate the scientific method. That’s why science is so important. It’s not just a person, who might be a jerk, saying that something is true… it is actually showing it to be true. To bring this back to Youngevity, if you’ve read the comments you’ve noticed that people have claimed it is better than other products that as far as we can tell are virtually the same. Without differentiation, these people are identical to jerks who are misguided, selfish, dishonest, greedy human beings. If you’ve followed products sold via MLM before you’ll find that this is true, which is why I have to write the article: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not Work (note a doctor has written a similar article). The people pushing these products are miracle cures are doing so because they profit on sales. If you put it in a store like LifeVantage Protandim was, no one claims it is a miracle cure like they do today.
Nash said, “A medical degree does not exempt a jerk from being a jerk, so to speak.” I wholeheartedly agree. If you read the article I wrote and saw the history of “Dr. Wallach” (not a medical doctor), you’d see I am the King of Such Proclamations… and I back it up with proof when I find it.
I would suggest that just because you realize that humans are flawed, you shouldn’t turn your back on science. Some greedy doctor giving bad advice somewhere has no impact of whether the small pox vaccine works.
There’s nothing wrong with making your own final judgment about your health, any doctor will agree. However, I like that you went and got a second opinion. There’s nothing wrong with that.
My own mother did get a hysterectomy in the 80’s. My wife’s mother did too. Neither of them have suffered from any complications. I’m not an expert on the subject, but if they became “very trendy” as you say, I haven’t seen lawsuits about problems with them like I do Vioxx or Fen/Phen. Don’t get me started on lawyers either, but they would be the first to be trying to put together big lawsuits, if they were truly problematic.
Nash said, “I have many others, but I will spare you my experiential evidence, since it is not scientific – and therefore not evidence at all.”
Thank you, that’s really one of the main points I’m trying to make with many of these MLM articles. People believe that their experience (and they might be lying about it) is indicative of what people will get if they buy the product. It isn’t true and these peopel don’t understand the need for proper scientific testing.
Nash said, “Don’t you think that at least in part, the aggressive campaign AGAINST natural remedies might have to do with the enormous profit that would be compromised if consumers discovered valid, healthier, and more effective alternatives to conventional medicine? Isn’t it safe to say that there are some financially powerful folks – some who maintain obscene wealth – who stand to lose a lot of money if consumers realized how self-reliant they are capable of becoming and how profoundly they can influence their own health?”
Maybe I have my head buried in the sand, but I don’t see an aggressive campaign AGAINST natural remedies. The FDA has a list of a pile of right here. I’ve known about vitamin D and calcium for bone health for some time. I think most people have. If there are financial powerful folks campaigning against this, how is it possible we know about it? Perhaps they slipped up and this information slipped through the cracks?
Let’s presume that it did slip through. Then what about the information regarding Plant Stanols/Sterols and Risk of Coronary Heart Disease. I can buy a natural supplement called CholestOff that is shown to help with cholesterol levels. The powerful folks who make billions and billions from statins (the drug equivalent), surely would have stopped this, right? There are people who stand to lose a lot of money from their statin sales.
My point is that if something works, and is proven to work, it gets known. If snail slime was shown to help with cataracts, there is a simple process to go through the FDA to get it listed. Some people say that the FDA is biased towards drugs, but I challenge them to go to other civilized nations and get approved there.
Finally it’s worth noting that the supplement industry has folks just as powerful campaigning on their side, so this isn’t a battle of “financial have”s vs. “financial have not”s. Let’s turn the question around and ask whether the supplements’ aggressive campaign is fueled by greed as well. I’ve seen many push their products for things that they haven’t been shown to help with – Glucosamine for joint health comes to mind. How many people have put money into that product where extremely extensive research comes back with nothing.
Nash said, “If people discovered the vast benefits, physically and psychologically, of simply taking better care of themselves by eating better, avoiding certain foods and toxins, exercising and yes, in some instances taking natural supplements, then they would be less dependent on doctors and meds, consequently, people who are very comfortably rich, to an extent that most of us can’t even imagine, would suffer enormous financial losses.”
I suggest reading this article: Soft Drinks, Hard Choices: What do we really want from Coke?. Pay particular attention to the part about how consumers don’t want to eat better. They don’t buy the McLean Deluxe when McDonalds gives it to us. They stop buying Alpha-Bits cereal when they take the sugar away. When there is a soda tax put in place… a plan to hit people in their wallet to encourage better health… they revolt.
It’s sad, but as the article points out… “We have water, but choose to drink Coke. We have broccoli, but choose to eat bologna… We have met the enemy- and it is us.” The soda companies are not to blame… we are.
I’ve always said in these articles, eat right and exercise. If you want to supplement, fine, but it isn’t an excuse for neglecting the first two. And if you want to supplement, please don’t do what many Youngevity distributors in the comments have tried to do and push their overpriced product as being a better supplement, without any science behind it. My main points in this article is that:
1. Eat right and exercise and ignore this article.
2. If you choose to supplement, other supplements are proven to better at 1/4th the cost. This allows you to use the money towards a better food, a gym membership, or a personal trainer.
3. There’s no extra special benefits with Youngevity that are worth paying for. Go back to steps 1 & 2.
To go back to your early point about going with nature… eating well and exercising is as natural as it gets. If you do that, you should be fine. Just exit this article. If our (Nash and mine) goal is to achieve this, we should ignore supplements. They are not nature, they are science… I have never come across a multivitamin tree in my life.
As for people getting super-rich with medicine and the amount of money that they stand to lose, I bring a simple analogy to you. Let’s assume that I developed an engine that took no gas to run. Oil companies, who are super-rich, would try to stop it from coming to the market. (Yes, I am stealing this from an episode of The Lone Gunman.) If it is already out there (i.e. supplements), no one can stop it from being known. Show the science… do the studies on the supplements showing that it works. If there is a cover-up involved the media or social media to point it out. Heck even get bloggers involved if need be. Even Mommy bloggers can get Kraft to change their product.
These are people with little money who get billion dollar corporations to change their product. Surely billion dollar corporations like supplement companies have a lot more power than a couple of mommy bloggers, right?
who is paying you for your research???
everyone has his own ax to grind. why not do some comprehensive research on the drug industry..how they have a license to steal ,how many die from their drugs , etc.. how many people have ”honestly”” died from taking vitamins etc.
NONE… over 40 years i have heard and seen many cures, reversing of illness and have personally had a rheumatoid arthritis “””CURE”
drug co’s pay researchers for results… i say if it works use it…
Lazy Man says
No one is paying me for writing this Sharon. I explained why I wrote the article at the beginning.
How many people have died from eating toast? Probably not many. It doesn’t mean that toast helps with anything (except hunger).
then do your research a little better! do you have a book in the smithsonean? don’t think so
what are you talking about our life expectancy goes up year after year wow! I don’t know where you get your info but it is incorrect it goes DOWN year after year look around you everyone is sick open your eyes we are 60th in life expectancy which means 60 other countries people live longer than we do yet we spend more on health care than all other countries combined.
Lazy Man says
Tammy, I don’t think Youngevity has a book in the Smithsonian either. Do you have a book in the Smithsonian?
As for life expectancy going up year after year, here’s the proof – https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=life%20expectancy. That’s the US data, but you can see that it applies to the whole world by checking that box too. And you’ll see that the US is ahead of the rest of the world
JC Smith says
Lazy Man…. that google link you provided made me laugh. Check this link out. We are number 38 in health in the world and number ONE in expense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems
Also – Dr. Wallach does have a book in the Smithsonian. The Federal Government paid Dr. Wallach to do the research in this book and is considered a national treasure. Check it out.
Lazy Man says
I don’t see what’s funny about that Google link to life expectancy… it’s just public data. There’s no joke there.
Number #38 of 190 sounds pretty good. In any case, point remains the same, life expectancy is going up and Tammy was wrong.
That link to Wallach’s book is funny… “Diseases of exotic animals : medical and surgical management” I can see why someone would consider him to an expert on vitamins in humans. That’s almost the same, except that it is pretty much the complete opposite.
JC Smith says
Really? You Really think #38 in what people are brain washed to believe is the best health care system in the world is good? ESPECIALLY since we pay MORE than all of the OTHER COUNTRIES COMBINED Per Year in Health Care. Yet we are getting sicker and sicker. I’ve been reading a lot of your comments back to people and I find them very interesting. What I really see in your comments is someone who can’t be wrong. Of course you have the right to think you are right all you want to. But the same right goes to all of us. I believe 100% that I am right about the products I take. Let me tell you that placebo effect does not last forever. The average is no longer than 6 months for physical issues. I have been pain free for 2 years. How do you explain that? Why don’t you run your own test. Find someone you love that has arthritis, fibromyalgia, type 2 diabetes, etc and lets get them on the products. Then you see for yourself. I know you probably won’t but I dare you to go to this link and listen to two or three of the links on the left. http://www.wallachonline.com/multimedia_content.aspx Of course I didn’t just grab this off the first google link I found. Double Dog Dare You!!!
Lazy Man says
None of the World Health Organization’s rankings have anything to do with the topic of Youngevity. And no we aren’t getting sicker and sicker, we are living longer and longer.
JC, people have been saying thing about MonaVie (arthritis, fibromyalgia, type 2 diabetes) for 5 years now, and the inventor of the product admits that it is just expensive juice. People are saying the about Jusuru, Protandim, Nopalea, Xocai, Asea, and just about every MLM product that you can name.
I’ve already explained why you feel you are pain-free. Read the article: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not “Work”. A group of doctors actually emailed me asking if they can republish the article on their website. Here it is on Aitse.org. Here are a list of doctors associated with the site: http://www.aitse.org/consortium-of-scientists-physicians-engineers/.
Why doesn’t Youngevity run a test. If they feel their products help with diabetes, simply do the clinical trials and get the products approved by the FDA for helping with diabetes. They stand to make billions if it really works.
JC Smith says
Clemson University was chosen because they are extremely reputable source.
Since you could not find how to get to their website. Here is a link for you. There are TONS of articles on the Clemson website that INR is working with lots of different groups. Not just Youngevity as you said in your article. I know you said you could not find any others, it really only took me 5 minutes.
Do you think that Clemson University would allow their reputation to be tainted by a SCAM? Really?
Oh– and I notified the webmaster they had a problem with that page, they emailed and will get it fixed. hummm… imagine that a broken link.
One more thing! Naturopathic Doctors (ND) — Had to attend medical school. Here is a link to you should check out. There are numerous states that recognize ND’s and more coming. http://www.aanmc.org/careers/naturopathic-doctor-licensure.php
They even have to Study a curriculum which includes current medical science and traditional naturopathic theory. Next time you go to the doctor you should ask them how many hours of Nutrition they had to have to get their medical degree. I know the answer, you need to find out for yourself. Needless to say I would not ask my doctor about nutrition.
Lazy Man says
I didn’t say that I couldn’t find how to get to Clemson’s website, I pointed out that the website representing Clemson’s Institute of Nutraceutical Research (INR) is broken and has been now for many months. It’s not as simple as a broken link, but the entire website representing the entire “Institute” has been broken. If my website is down for 5 minutes I get on my hosting company asking them what is up. Do you think the Boston Red Sox or the New York Yankees just let their websites go down for months without noticing? What about McDonalds or any other legit company?
The point is that clearly whoever is running the show at INR is pretty inept, and it is most likely just a single person, since a group would have likely noticed the problem.
You know that these companies pay Clemson for this marketing, right?
As for Naturopathic Doctors having attended medical school, show me the top medical schools that are accredited to give out ND degrees. Last I looked it wasn’t something that you can get Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. Not only that but numerous sources show that it is quackery.
If you are curious about nutrition, go see a certified nutritionist. I’m not sure why you’d bother with a doctor or a naturopathic doctor. If your insurance covers it (and many of them do), your doctor will probably give you a referral for a good one. I can guarantee you that if I went to through this exercise the nutritionist that I’m referred to will not recommend any Youngevity products.
JC Smith says
I find it very interesting that you were defending the University of Maine but not Clemson University. I don’t care what come back you have for this… because you always get the last word. The reality is the link I sent you early is from Clemson University the INR Department is real – no matter what is happening with their website. I see you also peddle vitamins on your website with all those affiliate links. (which I’m not opposed to affiliates) but it sure does give you a good reason to put down other companies. Sounds like a big conflict of interest. Ok, go ahead justify!
Lazy Man says
Pretty sure I didn’t defend the University of Maine. Not sure they were under any kind of attack in need of my defending.
It took a little bit to see what you were referring to and it was my link to their comments on generic wood ash. If University A is going to do a study that shows soda is bad for you and University B is going to do a study that shows a specific brand, say Coke, is good for you… well it doesn’t take a genius to figure out what went on there. However, it is especially true when you read the study and find that it is hollow with information that was already known to be true and not relevant (like INR performing test-tube studies on Youngevity to see if kills cancer in a test tube, when we know that vitamins do that already, and it is irrelevant to killing cancer in our body.)
I never suggested that Clemson’s INR is not real. It’s just clear that it is set up to be a profit center for Clemson and in the business of creating marketing for nutraceuticals and not trying to further our knowledge of nutraceuticals.
I’m not peddling vitamins on my site. If I was trying to peddle vitamins, I wouldn’t have linked to the research here that say they are harmful.
It’s funny, if I wrote an article about Centrum, it probably wouldn’t get a single comment. However, people get really worked up when I write about their MLM vitamins. These people should probably look to get a little help, because they seem a little addicted to a product. My wife loves her Dunkin Donuts, but she doesn’t go on Starbuck fan websites making a big deal of it everyday. She just buys her Dunkin Donuts coffee and lives her life.
Nash Savoy says
LM, you say, “people get really worked up when I write about their MLM vitamins. These people should probably look to get a little help, because they seem a little addicted to a product. My wife loves her Dunkin Donuts, but she doesn’t go on Starbuck fan websites making a big deal of it everyday. She just buys her Dunkin Donuts coffee and lives her life.”
You should probably follow your wife’s lead – and hang with other “Dunkin Donut” lovers who share your opinions – and leave the “Starbucks” lovers to fend for themselves. Furthermore, you should probably get help yourself. I am sure you can find a “certified, FDA approved” therapist who will not challenge the walls you’ve put around you to keep things in safe, scientific order. You are not here to prevent people from getting scammed. You are here to defend and validate your own beliefs – and that’s all they are – YOUR beliefs – regardless of all the “evidence” you have at your fingertips and how compulsively you refer to them as scientific fact You are the one who gets your “panties in a bunch” when someone shares a personal, real experience that they created outside of your safe little world. It is as if you HAVE to invalidate the experiences of others who reap the benefits of contrary beliefs than you, just for you to feel okay. Regardless of your intellectual stance – including the links you provide and the scientific “proof” you refer to – your personal conflict comes through, loudly and clearly. It is even a bit reckless and mean spirited – as if you NEED to stomp out the more creative and broad thinking perspectives that threaten your very stability. In the face of people sharing personal stories about their health and healing – you take a scientifically backed sledge hammer to them – under the guise of pointing them toward scientific truth – but it is again – to validate and defend your own need to do as your told, so to speak – and to keep conflict and it’s resolution in your intellect, so that the emotional chaos that haunts you stays locked up.
Best of luck,
Lazy Man says
If it was just about the product, I would. However, when people push a business opportunity where 99% of people lose money (no matter how hard they work) and the FTC guidelines show that it is an illegal pyramid scheme, I have a duty as a consumer advocate to inform the public. To get back to the coffee analogy, it’s as if I’m a restaurant review who loves coffee-houses. Of course I’m going to cover these things.
These are not my beliefs. It is scientific fact that no Youngevity product has been shown to help anyone with any condition. No one has been able to bring any evidence to the contrary. You might want to read my article published by a consortium or researchers, scientists, and doctors: http://www.aitse.org/no-your-mlm-doesnt-work/. It certainly seems like my “beliefs” as you call them are shared by those who are educated and knowledgeable.
I’m not sure what “safe” world you are referring to. The placebo effect has been proven to be real decades before I was born. When someone shares a personal experience that is inconsistent with any scientific fact besides the placebo effect (and others listed in the article).
It is the MLM distributors who don’t want to explore what is going out of their Youngevity walls. They don’t want to look at what the MonaVie people are saying. They don’t want to see what the LifeVantage Protandim people are saying. They don’t want to listen to what Dr. Bowden showed happens with many, many MLM products, distributors make all kinds of nonsense claims. Yes, he called MLM distributors gullible. Oh wait, Money Magazine called them gullible too.
If the Youngevity people weren’t so brainwashed, they would take a minute and say, “Hey wait a minute. Why are MonaVie, Asea, Xocai, and Protandim distributors reporting these same experiences? It’s not some common ingredient that is causing it.”
If you have a better explanation why all these products without a common thread except being distributed via MLM, let’s hear it.
If you knew a bunch of people were taking LSD and experiencing hallucinations, would you still sit there and say that their perception of various oddities like a flying pink elephant or a juggling penguin, are accurate depictions of reality? Or would you say, “There is a root cause that explains this better than believing in pink elephants and jugging penguins.” If you want to continue to believe in these experiences that even Youngevity doesn’t believe in (or they’d do the clinical trials to prove it scientifically), then you stand alone without science on your side. It really comes down to Occam’s razor.
Nash Savoy says
LM, No matter how desperate you are to prove otherwise – everything you say is a belief. Some people do not accept every scientific report as fact. Regardless of what theories/facts/beliefs/principles people are presented with – we are each still left with a CHOICE to accept it as our own – or not. You clearly accept scientific findings as factual and something to base your decisions on. That’s fine. Not everyone else does.
It was not that long ago when science reported that brain cells do not reproduce. Many significant aspects of science and medicine were premised on that theory. I have a doctor friend who told me long before science discovered it, that brain cells DO reproduce. I believed him. Knowing him and respecting him as I do, combined with his explanation and my own sense was enough for me to accept what he said as true. That was 30 years ago. He is someone you would accuse of “believing in pink elephants” – yet he was right. Scientific “fact” was wrong.
Some of us realize that science will evolve – meaning that what is known in science today is less reliable and accurate than what will be known tomorrow. As I see it, we have a responsibility to think for ourselves. Some of us also question the integrity of certain scientific research and its findings – especially as it pertains to our individual health, which we are individually responsible for. Some of us even question the integrity of the FDA – especially these days since it is now in Monsanto’s back pocket. If I were presented with an organically grown bowl of fruit which the FDA had not approved versus some canned fruit which has likely been sitting in corn syrup and preservatives for months – I would choose the bowl of fruit as the healthier (and tastier) choice – with confidence. Science plays no part in that choice. It is purely logical for those of who do not surrender the responsibility and our choices/beliefs and place it in the hands of science, the FDA, or anyone else for that matter.
I understand that this thread is about Youngevity, which I know nothing about. Perhaps you are right about it being more expensive than other brands or being a scam altogether. Again, I don’t know. However, your blatant disrespect for people’s choices reflects your unwillingness to be responsible for your own choices – and does not reflect the recipients of your disrespect. You have the freedom to interpret science however you choose – as perfect, unwavering, reliable, and factual and go on to base your health and wellness decisions on your specific interpretation of science, but no matter how you slice it – it comes down to your choice – your beliefs that you base your decisions on – just as it is a choice that other people are entitled to make when they interpret certain aspects of science as questionable and weigh in the significance of non-scientific factors – which sometimes means to choose, for example, a bowl of organic fruit over what the FDA approves or science claims is healthy or acceptable.
Science is fascinating and it certainly has its place in our world and continues to deliver information and technology that I am very grateful for. However, when it comes to my own health and the health of my loved ones, it’s influence is limited to my own interpretation of what’s right and what’s not. I like it that way because it keeps the responsibility of my health where it belongs – in my own hands.
Lazy Man says
If you want to believe the Earth is flat, I can’t stop you.
I would not have put the idea that brain cells reproduce as believing in pink elephants. Whether brain cells reproduce or not, still obey the laws of logic. As I’ve shown, the experiences that you see re-told from those who take MLM products, and only products sold by MLM, aren’t replicated anywhere else. If you do the research, you’ll see that even the same product, LifeVantage Protandim didn’t produce any testimonials when it was sold at GNC. When it was sold via MLM, the testimonials that it fixes everything, even cancer, came out.
So yeah, you can believe some “magical force” that enters a product when it is sold via MLM. I’m not going to stop you. However, I can instead point to existing science that explains the phenomenon perfectly without the invention of new “magical MLM forces.”
It’s fine to question the integrity of certain scientific research and findings. I’m the first to criticize the FDA as they’ve let these illegal advertisements go on. I’ve always said, make healthy eating choices and exercise. However, none of this is not the point of this article. If you aren’t here to talk about Youngevity or the testimonials that accompany all MLM products, you’ve come to the wrong place. No meaningful dialog can be had on the main point if we are going to talk about scientific integrity in general. We can speculate that the FDA is in Monsanto’s back pocket, but unless you have a smoking gun, it’s just idle speculation that isn’t going anywhere.
You say that you don’t know anything about Youngevity. Do you know about other MLM products? MonaVie, Potandim, Asea, Jusuru, Xocai, Nopalea? Have you done the research? Did you even read the Dr. Bowden article about the misleading marketing being used and the nonsense claims that are being made. Have you spent time on YouTube or even searching Google to see the how these products are pitched as cures for everything?
Great read Lazyman!!!
The local radio station where I live, KSCO in santa cruz county california, is tightly affiliated with wallach and alex jones. The station is actually sustained by selling wallach’s garbage.
I get so sick of hearing the stupid ad’s, and they even have multiple “distributors” competing on the air. So sad that people fall for this stuff. And then there’s the daily health “show” hosted by wallach where every call ends with his prescription of his products to cure the caller’s ill.
The American Cancer Society sums up what you need to know about Naturopathy: “Available scientific evidence does not support claims that naturopathic medicine can cure cancer or any other disease, since virtually no studies on naturopathy as a whole have been published.”
Of course not. Anything that supports “alternative” medicine is a threat to big pharma and the Western medical cartels. The fact is that people around the world who have not been taking dangerous vaccines and use natural medicine often live longer than many Westerners plugged into the system.
If the CDC or American Cancer Society disapproves it is worth trying.
Where is the evidence that pharmaceuticals prevent cancer? They don’t. It is your diet, exercise, and environment. Nothing “cures” cancer it is prevented. That is what natural medicine is about.
Lazy Man says
Alternative medicine by definition is no shown to work or does not work. Alternative medicine that is shown to work is called medicine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U
You are making a mistake in making a comparison to pharmaceuticals. Pharmaceuticals have no influence on Youngevity in any way. If I’m holding some Amoxicillin in my left hand, it doesn’t make the Youngevity more or less effective in my right hand. Youngevity is going to either work or not work based on its own merits… and the company itself doesn’t believe their products work because they haven’t put them through the scientific clinical trials.
Other things that I’m sure that the CDC and American Cancer Society disapprove of: eating rat poison, jumping off a bridge, and taking Lazymandium.
I have been taking the beyond tangy tangerine and the slender FX for about 2 months and have lost about 50 pounds and I’ve never felt better. I turned 40 in February and that’s when I decided I needed to get in better shape. I also started doing power yoga along with it and a green superfood called enerfood. I feel better than I did at 25. I really don’t know if it cures anything or not because I didn’t have any diseases but I feel so much better than I did.