About two years ago, when my article exposing MonaVie as a scam got popular, a commenter engaged in the conversation about this new great MLM product, ASEA. Some of people who analyzed MonaVie and determined it’s expensive fruit juice did some research and found out that ASEA was expensive salt water. I knew that I had to write about ASEA. One 24, Jusuru and ViSalus as scams.
Writing about ASEA is long overdue. So why am I writing about this now? In a span of about 45 minutes last night, I received to independent emails on ASEA. One came in the form of a comment on my Juice Scam website. The other came from my friend J. Money who created Budgets Are Sexy. The comment on MonaVie Scam was simply saying that it was a great product, it will be a multi-billion dollar company, and it’s based on strong science. Yawn… the same claims are made by MonaVie, Xango, Xowii, Zrii, Nopalea and any other MLM snake oil scam you shake a stick at. In fact, Truth in Advertising notes:
“Despite declarations by the Direct Selling Association (DSA) that it is committed to business ethics, a TINA.org investigation has found that 97 percent of DSA member companies selling nutritional supplements have distributors marketing their products with illegal health claims. Not only are distributors making dubious claims but TINA.org also documented DSA member companies making health claims that violate the law…
TINA.org’s investigation makes clear that there is a systemic problem within the MLM industry when it comes to health claims. Thousands of distributors are marketing MLM products to treat or cure diseases, with many relying on wildly inappropriate health testimonials to market their wares and the business opportunity.”
I’d like to focus more on the Budgets Are Sexy email. He told me that he has friends, a nice couple who are fairly well known in the personal finance blogging space, who are selling this ASEA and they wrote a guest article on how to make money with it in his popular “Side Hustle Series.” Can you guess where on the Internet I went the next morning? Yep, I wanted to check out the article.
Selling ASEA Molecules
The article, Side Hustle Series: I Sell Molecules!, really puts the hustle in “side hustle.” In fact, the comments got to the point where J. Money took the article down. Anticipating that might happen, I grabbed a screenshot so you can follow along with this.
Here are some notes I made in reading that guest article from Asea distributor Cil Burke:
- Typical pitch on how this helped family, neighbor, or friend – All the MLM products that I mentioned above have this in common. Almost never do you see any blind experiments to “forestall any chance of a placebo effect, observer bias, or conscious deception.” That quote is from Wikipedia and it’s one of the many reasons why health MLM health testimonials are pointless.
- Made of cells not organs – The author wrote: “If you take the time to think about it, we’re made up of cells, not organs.” It depends on what level you want to talk about it. You can get down to individual elements if you want. Typically it’s more productive to think in terms of organs. You wouldn’t want your doctor to attempt open heart surgery on your pancreas.
- It’s worked for me – Ahh the staple of the MLM pitch. Here you get “They’ve changed everything for me and my health.” followed by claims of blood pressure, aching joints, younger looking skin, and chronic low back pain. This is a standard list of ailments that I’ve dozens of times for the dozens of products I’ve covered, just like Truth in Advertising’s findings noted above. I’m reminded of the FTC’s warning about miracle cures that “claim to be a ‘cure-all’ for several diseases and a host of symptoms.” Of course these aren’t as serious as the ones the FTC warns about it, the parallels are there.
- Marketing the ASEA Supplement as a drug – The mention of ASEA reducing her blood pressure is actually an illegal marketing claim according to the FDA. In fact it could get you a nasty letter like this one. Specifically that mentions the problems with supplements claiming that it can reduce blood pressure. Of particular note is how the warning letter calls out the disease claims in testimonials saying specifically: “Your website also contains disease claims in the form of personal testimonials, including: …” You’ll notice that company cleaned up those testimonials right away.
- The FTC about claims and typical results – The FDA can’t be everywhere and monitor blog posts like this one. So it’s not likely she’ll get a warning letter like the above. However, it is worth noting that the FTC says that as an endorse of the product, she can’t make such claims either:
“As the revised Guides make clear, testimonials reporting specific results achieved by using the product or service generally will be interpreted to mean that the endorser’s experience is what others typically can expect to achieve. That leaves advertisers with two choices: 1) Have adequate proof to back up that claim, or 2) ‘Clearly and conspicuously disclose the generally expected performance in the depicted circumstances.'”
- About the company – This section of the blog post gives a bunch of bullet points that are more or less irrelevant.
– Claim: “They bought 32 patents in a fire sale.” Reality: As a commenter on another blog points out: “I searched for the patents they claimed to own – all of 30 patents or 27, depending on which sales site you read. When I searched patents for the company, Medical Discoveries, Inc, only 7 came up, so I am also not sure where the other claimed 23 (or 20) patents are. Two of these are electrically charging saline (salt water) to clean medical instruments, two are for apparatus, two are for injection into mammals, including humans and one is for injection/IV or ‘other methods’”Not only are there a bunch of missing patents that can’t be tracked down, but many of them are useless to potential customers of ASEA… they don’t have an injectable product and it would be a very expensive way to clean medical equipment, not that most people buy ASEA with the intention of cleaning medical equipment. Not only that, but patents themselves are often ridiculous and unproven and there’s no analysis on these at all. Final analysis: Anyone bringing up the patents without a defensible position on each and every one as to how it is relevant to the consumer is just trying to trick you with a marketing gimmick.
– Built a company with no debt. They are selling salt water for more than a dollar an ounce. I should hope they didn’t go into debt doing this.
– “It’s a brand new (less than three years old) company who single-handedly is going to show us an ethical way to be a word of mouth marketer…” Well we are still waiting for that ethical way, because breaking the FDA and FTC laws was not a good place to start. Also, I’ve heard about it two years ago and certainly word of mouth marketing hasn’t worked for them. Word spread fast… gangnam style fast, right?
– “… and audaciously plans to be the first single product word of mouther with a billion in sales.” You can plan to do anything. MonaVie claimed to do a billion with just MonaVie Original and MonaVie Active (it was original with glucosamine mixed in). Yes, it was technically two products, but why does the number of products matter? And it isn’t a “word of mouther” with the athletes they’ve paid as sponsors (but we’ll get to that later).
– “product fitness professionals and metabolic scientists alike are almost speechless when describing their own studies and results.” I’ll get to this later as well, because it ties in with the athletes and the comment that I received on MonaVie Scam last night.
– “This company is enabling people like me to share the word about this amazing bottle of molecules and make real money.” No, they are using you. They require that you buy the product (or make it so you have to sell prohibitively too much product to get over that requirement) to be in the business of earning money from the pyramid that you create. It’s got the same business model as MonaVie and all the others. - “Now go use the Big G to check: ‘Re-dox signaling molecules + Your Disease Here.'” – Ahh more implied disease claims. What’s left out is the connection that the product actually helps with oxidative stress… or in this case redox signaling. If ASEA actually worked for any disease, the company would do the clinical trials and get it approved by the FDA for helping with that disease. If proven to work, they wouldn’t be planning to do a billion in sales, they’d be planning to do 10 billion overnight.
No MLM company ever proves their product to work. If you can make a billion on placebo, observer bias, and conscious deception, from any old snake oil, there’s no need to clinical trials that would actually disprove your product and kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
- Dismiss this and you’ll miss out – The next round of nonsense is: “if you see comments like, ‘That’s just salt water, or it’s a scam,’ and you dismiss this, then you’re missing out on a once in a lifetime product. Scams don’t have 32 patents. Scams don’t spend big bucks on further research when they’re already solidly profitable.” Let’s call a spade a spade. The ingredients are water and salt. Did you miss out on the once in a lifetime (always a scummy marketing ploy) products of MonaVie, Jusuru, Zrii, etc. Do you have money to buy them all?
I thought the 32 patents were bought in a fire-sale. Seems like a prudent thing for a scammer to do to convince people that it works.
As for spending big bucks on research, they are buying marketing for their distributors to sell the product. MonaVie did the same thing and they were “solidly profitable.” They know that distributors can’t market salt water without something convincing-sounding backing it up. Hence the solution to spend money on “research.” I put “research” in quotes because it is essentially marketing.
- “What Asea Isn’t” – The article tries to distance the product from MonaVie, ViSalus, and other MLM products by saying that it isn’t crushed berries, a pill, or a protein shake… yet all three product are better than salt water. Then come the typical MLM disclaimers (with my response):
– It isn’t a “get rich quick program.” That’s true, over 99% of people lose money in MLM).
– “It’s not a fill your garage with product you won’t ever need scheme or scam.” Nope, like MonaVie and all the others the plan is get to people to consume the overpriced product because the FTC cracked down on inventory loading MLM/pyramid schemes long ago.)
– “It’s not a chemical that strains your body in an effort to burn up calories from your stop at the Cinnabon.” Dear lord, I should hope not. That sounds like ephedra that’s been banned for some time. Way to compare the product to something bad to make it look better, even if it isn’t shown to work (more on that later).
– “It’s not a room with a white board and circles.” It’s not? Around 5:00 in this YouTube video explaining the compensation plan the circles come out. You could imagine it being done on a white board. In fact here is one describing the binary compensation plan that ASEA uses. - The money made – Cil Burke says that in 6 weeks she made more than $1000 dollars. That’s not the typical case. A nurse with a husband who is a doctor is in a better position to sell this product, because there’s a level of trust there.
Cil then goes into saying “I call it sharing a healthier, better life.” That’s the same pitch MonaVie used for years: You aren’t selling product, you are “sharing” it. It’s in MonaVie’s official website: “Our profound success isn’t just MonaVie’s success, it’s about our independent distributors sharing MonaVie products and solutions for a healthier life while earning financial benefits. This is your chance to share innovative MonaVie products and achieve your own financial well being.”
Cil then says, “The potential income from this bio tech product is unlimited because your market is unlimited.” Actually the market is very limited. Not many people are interested in paying a dollar an ounce for salt water. Furthermore, every person that’s recruited into the opportunity is not a competing sales person. Read more about MLM and the Reality of Saturation. Finally, there’s no such thing as truly “unlimited” income in any business. Money is a finite resource internationally.
Cil then says, “My personal goal is to replace my day job income in 6 months to a year. My stretch goal is to do it in 4 months.” Since Cil seems to be new to MLM, she probably doesn’t realize that it all comes crashing down when people leave the scheme, just like what’s MonaVie. It’s predictable. The people at the bottom leave because they are paying $125 for their molecules and unable to recruit people because the market for gullible, informed people is saturated. So those people quit. Then the people above them quit because they are the new bottom who are paying money without earning a return. It bubbles on up and then the people at the top start to run to other schemes. In fact, some of the top earners in MonaVie left to go to Zeek Rewards only to watch it get shut down by the SEC a couple of months later for being a Ponzi scheme.
- For More Information – Cil finishes up with the “We are a doctor and nurse team going places because the world deserves to learn how to heal itself, therefore avoiding many high-risk pharmaceuticals.” This is the classic Health MLM Mind Game: The FDA Approves Drugs with Side Effects that Kill People combined with the red flag of quackery of “heal itself”. How did I know to write those articles months before this article was published? Hint: It’s the same thing that all the other MLM scams use.
Okay so maybe I didn’t make those notes while I was reading the article. I spent a lot of time to organize them and present them here.
The Science behind ASEA
It turns out that there’s really no science behind ASEA. The commenter on MonaVie Scam pointed me to this video on ASEA. Upon watching it, it is quite clear that it is an ASEA informercial.
It turns out that the people in the video were all part of this $194,000 grant sponsored by REOXCYN DISCOVERIES GROUP, INC registered to Verdis L Norton, co-founder of ASEA. Why the deception to hide who is funding the research? I guess it’s to make you think it might be independent research.
Before that big grant, ASEA gave grants to Nieman and Shanely directly: see this, this, and this. Update: They changed the crediting of the grants. this image of the Google cache shows the grants are credited to Nieman, Shanely, and others. Now these are credited to Nieman alone I’m not sure what they are trying cover up with this change of grants that were done months and months ago. In any case, with these new grants, ASEA has given Nieman $701,294 to produce research for ASEA.
Also, Nieman has a guest speaker gig for Asea, which is typically paid for.
Interestingly they only tested 20 people, which is a scientifically insignificant amount. And of course they did a one-week sample size which isn’t significant either. It wasn’t published in any peer review journal.
However, you don’t have to take my word for all this. As any ASEA distributor will point out, I’m not a doctor. They’ll claim that I don’t have the credentials to explain that the science is insignificant. With that in mind, I present you to an unbiased, fully qualified doctor, Dr. Harriet Hall who explains why ASEA is another expensive way to buy water.
Of course Harriet Hall not only debunks the product for lack of science, but also the the study done by Nieman that was highlighted in the ASEA infomercial.
Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.
The Business of ASEA
For the most part the Business of ASEA is The Business of MLM (or What Gives Freddy Krueger Nightmares). It’s a tremendously terrible “opportunity.”
ASEA’s business model was evaluated by Brett Hansen who has significant industry experience (16 years) and the binary compensation plan and shows that only 5% could possibly earn money because of the internal consumption model. Distributors and others may claim to make outside sales, but they often do not since it is a lot of work to sell product one at a time.
The analysis he gives shows, “The mathematics of their particular compensation structure indicate that 97% plus will never be able to even cover the basic cost of their autoship.”
Does ASEA Work?
While the talk of many, many testimonials may seem convincing, such testimonials are typical with any MLM product. This shows that these testimonials are not unique to the ASEA product. Instead, there’s a wide variety of psychological phenomena with MLM health products that give people the perception that the product works. For more details see:
No Your MLM Health Product Does Not “Work.”
Asea Fined in Italy for “Unfair Business Practices”
A Google Translate of an Italy consumer protection website shows that Asea Italy was fined 150,000 Euros for “for unfair business practices that have affected tens of thousands of consumers in the area of multilevel illicit sales of beverages… The position of Asea Italy and Organ Golden Europe is further aggravated by the fact that the two companies have curative properties attributed to their products that are not adequately demonstrated and certified.” (Again, that’s the Google Translate version, but I think you get the picture.)
Asea Turns to Black Hat SEO?
I had a good friend ask me if I started buying comments on the web to promote my articles. I’ve never done any such thing and will never do any such thing. He asked me this because he noticed this on his blog. Someone is leaving spam comments to promote this article.
I did a little research and it seems the same IP address (from Greece) was caught spamming others on the same day 12/13/14.
What I think we are seeing here is that Asea (or some supporter of Asea) is trying to paint a picture of me as a spammer in order to get this article of useful information taking down from search engines. They don’t want potential clients and distributors reading this because it exposes their fraud. There’s really no other explanation that I can see. I guess it is just another way that Asea is trying to scam people. I’d tell them to stay classy, but it is far past that now.
Summing it up
At this time, I’m going to skip writing a conclusion for this article. I’ve written enough of them for the similar MLM health products and they are more or less interchangeable. Plus, if you’ve read this far, the conclusion for any intelligent person is quite clear.
susie johnston says
I heard that ASEA actually contains dihydrogen monoxide as component of their ‘magical’ change of water to contain ‘redox signaling’. Isn’t this a dangerous compound????
Dihydrogen monoxide is another word for water (two hydrogen atoms, one oxygen… or H2O). There’s are hoaxes where people confuse other people by referring to water in this unfamiliar way.
You heard wrong
I’m not surprised…I tried to write about how ASEA saved my life but you blocked my post before I could post it.
YOU are the scam.
Sorry, Alison, I don’t block posts. As you can read from the 380+ comments here, I post everything of on both sides of the debate. And, of course, salt water did not save your life.
…so did you get a trip to St Tomas as a reward….saved your life?
How did salt water save your life. This product has been lab tested and not only is it Water, Sodium Chloride (common salt), but it also has 228 ppm (Parts Per Million) of simple Chlorine. A pool should have between 1 and 3 ppm of chlorine to keep any microbes from growing. It is recommended that a Jacuzzi should have less than 8 ppm for it to be safe for a swimmer to be in. Nothing more than 8 ppm to be safe of harm. This ASEA product that people are drinking has 228 ppm in every bottle. It is an Endocrine Disrupter, and the main thing that causes Thyroid disease, which effects 9 out of 10 women in the United States. There are a slew of other side effects caused by Chlorine.
That was worth pointing out to illustrate how little MLM parasites care about injuring or killing people.
Why do you think Asea doesn’t work?
Asea was not initially intended to be sold through independent distributors.
Why do you think something that doctors call “expensive salt water” would work?
How and where was Asea initially intended to be sold? (Please supply a reputable link as evidence for you answer.)
1.
Poor response to a good question.
The doctrine of redox signaling molecules is a relatively new topic in medicine, as I understand. The ‘old’ doctors have not had this subject in their education.
Search PubMed for Redox signaling molecules and you will find this
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Redox+Signaling+molecules
Redox means “reduction and oxidation”
2.
I do not have a link to this information, it’s just something I know.
Asea bought the patent from someone who did not receive support to develop the product.
Asea decided after much back and forth, to sell via network or MLM.
This information comes from the company.
I think you read the comments here, I reference a point on Dr. Hall’s blog where the father of Redox Signaling said that Asea is falsely applying the term to its products. I think it has been over a year since I’ve read it, so I’ll leave it to you to get the exact reference (I’ve done more than enough free research for you).
Unfortunately, we can’t put any truth into the statement that you have no proof about. “Just something you know” is not good enough to contradict expert analysis like that of Dr. Hall.
What do you mean sell via network or MLM?
You shouldn’t cite anything that comes from Asea’s marketing as being accurate. I saw a claim from the company that a pharmacy company wanted to buy it, but they turned the money down. Of course they provide no evidence that anything like this ever happened. It seems to be a made-up story to trick unintelligent people into thinking that other companies place value on the product.
Sorry, but you are giving terrible responses to my information.
If you follow the article Asea bought a bunch of patents that appear to be completely irrelevant.
Asea has helped myself and several other people I know from several illnesses. Last year I could barely walk due to a long term illness. I tried everything. I was given Asea and a month later I felt better, joint pain was gone, mental clarity was amazing, energy returned. I am now training for a Spartan Race. I know people are skeptical and I know this gentleman who runs this forum will argue until he is blue in the face. Believe me we have gone back and forth through email. He will never see the opposing side. My Human Beta Growth Factor 1 test results were over 10,000 a high normal is 2300. That is a test for having been exposed to high levels of fungus and biotoxins and is an inflammation marker. I have been on Asea for three months and just got my new results back they are down to 5200. I don’t need to prove anything to anyone that was proof enough for me
Beth, does Asea publicly agree and endorse your claim?
If they would it could make them a pile of money.
Maybe you should prove it to Asea themselves?
That’s a start. We can move forward when they validate you.
Please remember that thousands of people said similar things about MonaVie. The company never stood by those claims, and it was revealed that it was “expensive flavored water.”
Thanks, Beth.
Yes I know Asea’s products works. I’ve been drinking the Asea water for 4 years now.
And I also know that Lazy man never will see the opposing side, but I like it here :)
I like to read new comments.
Pretty fun.
Now that the new product, Renu Advanced is out there, they will have more to comment on and more to be amazed at. ;)
Beth said: “Asea has helped myself and several other people I know from several illnesses.”
No, it hasn’t. Not once. Ever. It’s pyramid scheme salt water consisting of nothing more than inert ingredients: water, sodium magnesium silicate (synthetic clay), disodium phosphate, and sodium chloride (table salt). Even the remotest suggestion that it would have any effect on any illness is moronic and extremely irresponsible.
Vogel, Asea also contains Redox Signaling Molecules. But it’s not an added ingredient.
What do you think these molecules do?
Magnus, I’ll let Vogel answer for himself, but see Dr. Hall on the subject: https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/asea-another-expensive-way-to-buy-water/
I stopped reading when I came to “This is very creative, but it’s not science. It’s just an attempt to baffle you with bullshit.”
Maybe you should go back and read the what the good unbiased doctor had to say. There’s a lot of good information in the comments (or their was the last I checked them).
Maybe I will do just that.
But it will not change anything.
It is what it is.
I am kind of over this site and defending something that has helped me so much and my lab results don’t lie. Plus the many people like me I have given it to…not one isn’t doing significantly better. That’s all the proof I need.
Magnus Dopus said: “Vogel, Asea also contains Redox Signaling Molecules. But it’s not an added ingredient. What do you think these molecules do?”
You know precisely nothing about redox signaling. Your product, which is nothing more than insultingly expensive salt water, contains no more “redox signaling” molecules” than any other type of salt water. The very fact that you and the other Asea morons insist on using this generic catch-all term instead of specifying exactly which molecules you are referring to is a further indication that you don’t have the faintest clue what you’re talking about.
Pretty much any ordinary ion could be referred to as a “redox signaling molecule”. If one adds table salt to water, the ions that will form in solution include hydroxide, chloride, hydrogen, sodium, etc., but consuming these ions in solution is no different than drinking tap water, which contains the same dissolved mineral salts and ions as Asea. They have pretty much zero physiological effect and most certainly no medical benefits.
This BS is what your con game is predicated on – selling overpriced salt water to idiots who are completely ignorant of basic chemistry and telling them it contains hidden mystery ingredients that cure everything. To that I say F you all! Trying to profit from simpletons by selling them fake medicine is morally reprehensible, not to mention illegal.
It bears repeating every time this idiotic product is mentioned – Asea cures nothing — anyone who says otherwise is a lying fool and a parasite.
Vogel, if you say so! :D
I pity you.
Magnus — you worthless disgusting sack of crap — it has come to my attention that you are illegally marketing Asea BS products for various medical conditions, including wound healing and treatment of autoimmune and childhood developmental disorders.
https://twitter.com/magnus66/status/780818643240251392
https://twitter.com/magnus66/status/785907285017042944
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmS0XVeGrNc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHLF1mGyAiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zWHgGcVRqo
This will be your only warning – purge these and all other illegal claims you have posted to the internet or face the consequences. If they are not removed within 48 hours, a report will be filed against Asea with the FDA.
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm
Wow…. :D You’ll do your best.
It doesn’t matter if I delete those or not. There’s lot’s of copies online of the same videos etc.
I still pity you.
I don’t need to “put any truth into the statement” to anyone.
Too much to read so I won’t do it.
By network or MLM I mean direct selling company.
Anyway, I have used Asea for over 3 years so I’m pretty familiar with the product and what it have done to me. So actually, I don’t care what any doctors say about it :)
I just wanted to know why you don’t think Asea work. (I assume I have to read all the comments after all)
Sorry if a little reading that would save thousands of dollars is “too much.”
You mentioned network or MLM implying that they were debating between those two different things. Now you are saying they are the same thing. Obviously they couldn’t debate between two things if they are really the same thing.
Trying a health product does not give you an idea of what it does. You might want to look up what the placebo effect is.
Magnus Berg said: “The doctrine of redox signaling molecules is a relatively new topic in medicine, as I understand. The ‘old’ doctors have not had this subject in their education.”
You don’t understand it at all; not even a little tiny bit. First of all, redox signaling is not a “doctrine”, and secondly, biomedical researchers have been studying redox-signaling for many decades. What you’re implying is that Asea — a skeezy MLM purveyor of overpriced salt water — is more in tune with the science of redox signaling than the entire medical community, and a more absurd suggestion would be hard to fathom.
Magnus Berg said: “I do not have a link to this information, it’s just something I know. Asea bought the patent from someone who did not receive support to develop the product. Asea decided after much back and forth, to sell via network or MLM. This information comes from the company.”
Anything they are alleged to have said but were not willing to put into writing is worthless hearsay. However, it’s no wonder that “after much back and forth”, they would have decided that selling salt water for 50 bucks a bottle could only fly in the rarefied world of an MLM pyramid scheme.
If you say so.
But ask an old doctor if he knows what signaling molecule is. I did and he did not know.
And you’ve obviously made up your mind about MLM in general.
Why do you think it is impossible that Asea not have signal molecules in their water?
Professor David Nieman has no reason to doubt this as he says in an email to the University Hospital in Tromsø (by request) (Norway)
I have responded to your blog a couple of years ago and have found you to be very gifted in writing blogs. You are much like a politician telling us what we want to hear.
[Editor’s Note: Thanks Rich, but you tried to include your promotional sales pitch in your comment. No one pays me to write this article unlike your fear mongering…]
Most people find your blog because of the word SCAM.
[Editor’s Note: Maybe people shouldn’t search for the company as a “SCAM.”? I don’t write about Google, Microsoft, or Amazon as being scams.]
That single word gives the researcher comfort that it must be too good to be true. Your words even if they are grey or not true are believable because why would a person providing opinion and information about a product not tell the truth?
[Editor’s Note: I hope that my articles give people the information to avoid scams. I wrote a similar article about Vemma and they were sued by the FTC. So let’s make sure the truth is told with these MLM schemes… fair?]
The truth is most people are too LAZY to do their own research and find it easier to believe what you say. The truth is your search ranking is high because of that one word and you reap the benefits of blogging about anything to build your advertising revenue.
[Editor’s Note: I made a lot more money from my website before I wrote about pyramid schemes.]
Regarding ASEA my friends and family are taking it now and approaching 4 years without costing us anything. Because of the MLM distribution model. We will not stop taking it because of the impact it had on my wife, daughter and a large number of other people we were compelled to introduced it to.
[Editor’s Note: This is the kind of thing that I heard from MonaVie, a juice company. They didn’t get their product FDA approved for any condition.]
My daughter was provided by her doctor a double blind studied drug, you support, for a debilitating neurological disease that has 2 initials. The side effects were many and she had to come off it because it would kill her. It was during the time she was off that drug when she was introduced to ASEA. She had nothing to lose because she was wheelchair bound. All I can say whatever is in that salt water has helped my daughter get out of a wheel chair for over 4 years and able to walk her neighbor with my grandson. My wife is also on ASEA because she has the same debilitating disease my daughter has with amazing results. Everybody that we know that are on ASEA has many amazing stories to tell.
[Editor’s Note: Please refer to this great article: (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jonny-bowden/new-rules-no-more-claimin_b_106562.html)]
I guess the easy answer is to say it is a placebo but the truth is it works. The why is for those that want to do the research and find the truth.
How about an independent study with a major university, not an in-house or buddy system study? If it is so good, why is it cloaked in a MLM scheme and not on the front page of the major newspapers? Almost all the testimonials are from MLM victims/distributors or their friends.
Electrified salt water and no real proof it works. No. It is a SCAM, snake-oil at it’s best. University of Florida students studied it in 2016 and couldn’t find anything about it that was different than treated salt water. No other credible university has found it to be a “Miracle Water” that will change medicine as we know it. It is a SCAM.
This is someone who was part of Asea a few years ago ie 2010.
So why am I here, and responding after so many years? Mostly on a whim. I was doing much needed cleaning of my e-mail account and saw my old correspondence on Asea.
XXXX has asked me to create a video presentation for you so that you can learn about the amazing technology which has touched our lives in so many ways. She mentioned that your brother has a scientific background and that this may be just what he is looking for as a career move.
Once you’ve had a chance to look at the three short videos, could you respond to us via return email or call XXXX directly? This kind of thing works best if we can have you refer us directly to your brother rather than just forwarding it to him without any explanation of why the email is coming.
Our bodies have special molecules inside every cell whose purpose is to protect the cells, to detect damaged cells, and then to either repair or replace them with new healthy cells. These critically important molecules, called “redox signaling molecules”, exist in two places: 1. within our cells and 2. in ASEA.
For the first time in medical history, these amazing molecules have been created and stabilized outside the body in a formula called ASEA.
As a result of ASEA’s unrivaled scientific breakthrough, health and physical performance are being significantly enhanced.
You will be one of the first to know about ASEA.
Click Here To Watch (http://asea.sendvideo.net/stw/index.php?p=otnzv4e7f2c926arhsok) apparently no longer around
My first impressions was this
“The company seems to be taking advantage of the ‘free radical boom’, by that I mean all the companies boasting how blueberries and acai are “super fruits” because they have high anti-oxidant properties (take away the free radicals). The videos are well made and in line with the new age visual images..”
Despite this I met with a representative and skype chatted. He said it had personally helped him and as a result I chose to try it for 3 months.
For myself I did do the research on this, when I tried asking about the research I was sent to look at the youtube videos and the testimonials. I did independent research on the redox reaction and when I talked to the representative he admitted he didnt fully understand how it worked, just that it helped him.
So I was skeptical but I tried it and after one month I was feeling more noticeably more energetic. This is a personal experience, and I realized that this, despite my bias against it my still be a placebo effect.
For the second month I drank salt water, and yes the taste (and smell as anyone who has tried this will remember that clorine smell) was different and so was the result. I wasn’t feeling any different then my base I didnt feel supercharged or anything.
Finally for third month I tested it again. I expected the supercharged feeling after drinking Asea…
As you might surmise from my opening statement I no longer have anything to do and had mostly forgotten about asea. The reason is the 3rd month.
At first it did nothing, then my body just rejected it, I didn’t throw up or anything my through just kind of constricted and my mind decided it was unappetizing. Personally, after the first month I hoped I was wrong about it.
Unfortunately, like many scientists (or people in general) worth their salt would say… “If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.”
++++
TL:DR
Asea may work for some, but it is probably a placebo effect.
If it works for you then good. Only YOU can decide if something is worth what you pay for it.
That’s not a bad conclusion. I think people should be told upfront that the product’s marketing isn’t consistent with scientists and their claims. I think this is just a fair and honest way of marketing a product. It also shouldn’t depend on a scheme that looks like a pyramid scheme according to the FTC guidelines.
I got a recorded call offering a job as an inbound CSR working as little as 5 days a week. The recording said I would make about $750 a week. But since positions were filling up fast, I needed to call 207.370.xxxx. When I first called the number it was disconnected. A few days later I called again and a recording was played. The man doing the recording was named Geno. I knew instantly that this was an MLM. MLM’s are notirious for deception and fast talk. They talk about millions to be made, the wealtgy lifestyle, etc. Yet as a Ruby in Amway decades ago, Herbalife and at least a half dozen more, yhe best I ever did was to break even. Awful lot of work for zero gain. But I also did not lose much money because I quickly learned how to use their very own cleverness to be clever myself. I digressed here to point out that I’m an old veteran when it comes to MLM’s.
This Geno claims to have had his ups and downs, made millions and lost millions. Then he came across a biotech firm that created a beverage that carries redox signaling molecules. I listened to the claims…or the lack thereof…that this beverage was as critical to the human body as binary codes are to computers. That got my attention!
The message continues with how the money is made. You must buy in at one of three different levels. $990+, $700+ and $490+. For that you get that level of inbound calls, not fom potential customers, but from people contacted the same way I was. I know this game all too well. It’s all about creating the downline. The larger the downline, the more the money floats to the top. The productd and services are merely the window dressings.
A few sentences ago I said that their analogy of the criticality of these signaling molecules being as important as binary code got my attention. Well it did because…well…that is one hell of a claim! Also, knowing how MLM’s love to exaggerate, I decided to do some research. So I googled everything about the subject, including this blog. I looked at both sides equally. I googled scientific sources as well as, marketing sources. What I discovered was that the health industry is a cesspool of claims and counterclaims. In the end I re-learned that greed and the lust for a quick buck leaves us with an uneasy and dangerous pilgramage into our bank accounts with the hopes of a little outlay bringing in a huge amount of ROI. The lesson here is if you polish a turd, it’s still turd. A shiny turd, but still a turd.
You know MLM’s could be a worthwhile and strong industry. But as long as the current mentality prevails, it’ll continue to be a non-vital indudstry.
I know you have all the answers that are 100% correct. Then can you explain why ASEA would want to certify that there are redox signaling molecules in every bottle they manufacture. They use a company called BioAgilytix. BioAgilytix is a leading contract research organization specializing in large molecule needs, enabling scientific innovators to develop and deliver game-changing biologic innovations through our expertise in cell-based assays, biomarkers, immunogenicity and pharmacokinetics. They also certify drugs from major drug companies. Every bottle of ASEA has BioAgilytix logo on the bottle certifying that there are trillions of molecules in each bottle. I already know the benefits of the molecules because it changed the lives of two of my family members. We have been taking it now going on 5 years before ASEA certified their product. We knew it worked because we know 1000’s of people receiving the benefits of the molecules. What is your answer to why would ASEA pay to certify if this was a scam? What would happen to your body if you had no redox molecules in your body?
Rich said, “Then can you explain why ASEA would want to certify that there are redox signaling molecules in every bottle they manufacture.”
Are they doing this with the FDA? I don’t think so… is that fair? Has ASEA gotten FDA approval?
Rich said, “specializing in large molecule needs.”
Whoa, people have “large molecule needs” Is it fair that the FDA should put a requirement stating our molecular needs?
Rich said, “We knew it worked because we know 1000’s of people receiving the benefits of the molecules.”
Please document these “1000’s of people.” Also, if it works, please explain where ASEA is with FDA approval to help people get these benefits.
Rich said, “What would happen to your body if you had no redox molecules in your body?” Is it fair to say that for centuries, people didn’t have ASEA product in their body? What happened to all these people’s bodies?
Rich said, “Then can you explain why ASEA would want to certify that there are redox signaling molecules in every bottle they manufacture.”
Lying Lazy Man Said: Are they doing this with the FDA? I don’t think so… is that fair? Has ASEA gotten FDA approval?
They don’t need FDA Approval it is a native to your body supplement with zero toxicity. No vitamin, mineral, juice or drug can make that claim. Drug companies needs that approval because they have to show all the side effects including death.
Lying Lazy Man Said: Rich said, “specializing in large molecule needs”
That piece of info is out of context that is what BioAgilytix mission statement is regarding supplying their services to drug companies.
You never answered my question. Why did ASEA use BioAgilytix to certify that they have trillions of redox signal molecules in every bottle they produce??? If they are scamming why would they pay to have it done?
Lying Lazy Man Said: Whoa, people have “large molecule needs” Is it fair that the FDA should put a requirement stating our molecular needs?
I think you should read Pub Med and understand the science of redox signaling molecules before you take what I say and twist it to meet your agenda. (Selling ad space)
Rich said, “We knew it worked because we know 1000’s of people receiving the benefits of the molecules.”
I do know a lot of people on the product because there are over 200,000 taking it every day and their testimonials is enough for me. Google Asea testimonials. I might be biased because it helped both my wife and daughter. Your uneducated answer would be that it was a placebo what you need to do is study the science before you prevent other people from finding a solution to better heath.
Why would I say it is not a placebo? My wife and daughter had been on many different drugs prescribed by doctors over the years and one my daughter was taking had to get off it because she would have died. All drugs were FDA approved now both my wife and daughter are off those drugs since taking ASEA and it is going on 5 years. Could it be you are getting paid by the drug companies??
Just answer my question about Bioagilytix..
Rich said: “Then can you explain why ASEA would want to certify that there are redox signaling molecules in every bottle they manufacture.”
Why don’t you explain it instead? What exactly are the chemical names of the alleged “redox signaling molecules” in the bottle?
Rich said: “Every bottle of ASEA has BioAgilytix logo on the bottle certifying that there are trillions of molecules in each bottle.”
Again, what are the chemical names of these alleged molecules? H20 is a molecule. It’s indisputable that there would be a lot of water molecules in every bottle of water. So what?
Rich said: “What is your answer to why would ASEA pay to certify if this was a scam?”
Um, so that their know-nothing distributors can go around bragging that the product is certified to contain “molecules” (and look like complete idiots in the process).
Rich said: “What would happen to your body if you had no redox molecules in your body?”
That’s like asking what would happen if our bodies didn’t contain protein or DNA. It’s a stupid irrelevant question because such an occurrence never happens.
Rich said: “Then can you explain why ASEA would want to certify that there are redox signaling molecules in every bottle they manufacture.”
Why don’t you explain it instead? What exactly are the chemical names of the alleged “redox signaling molecules” in the bottle?
Rich said: “Every bottle of ASEA has BioAgilytix logo on the bottle certifying that there are trillions of molecules in each bottle.”
Again, what are the chemical names of these alleged molecules? H20 is a molecule. It’s indisputable that there would be a lot of water molecules in every bottle of water. So what?
The medium that maintains the redox signaling molecules is sodium chloride in pristine purified water similar to hospital grade IV solution. This is why it is a native to your body supplement. At the very core of the way our bodies work is energy production from the REDOX biochemical reactions converting food and oxygen into energy, carbon dioxide, and water. This is called cellular respiration. Large molecules are broken down into smaller ones, releasing energy in the process. The exchange of energy involves the transfer of electrons from one molecule to another. This “combustion” of sorts, called the Krebs cycle, creates cellular energy (ATP) and also various molecular side reactions. There is a collection of very tiny molecules created in these side reactions, which vary in size from 2-4 atoms, and are called REDOX signaling molecules (RSM). They are generated in some cells a million times a second, and also used to carry out their work equally as fast. It is no wonder that these molecules are so pivotal in our biology.
Rich said: “What is your answer to why would ASEA pay to certify if this was a scam?”
Um, so that their know-nothing distributors can go around bragging that the product is certified to contain “molecules” (and look like complete idiots in the process).
You are being very negative about something you know nothing about. You believe in FDA approved drugs but so many are toxic and detrimental to health read the warning labels. BioAgilytix certification company does the same for drug companies you love.
I think ASEA did the certification to dispel skeptics and prove that there were real redox molecules. Why are drug companies using Bioagilytics for their sales reps to promote drugs to local doctors or certify that each batch of drug meets specification?
Rich said: “What would happen to your body if you had no redox molecules in your body?”That’s like asking what would happen if our bodies didn’t contain protein or DNA. It’s a stupid irrelevant question because such an occurrence never happens.
Wrong again the amount of these molecules goes down with age and when you hit 70 you are down to 10% remaining. When it hits 0 you are dead. Wouldn’t it be great if we could supplement these molecules to reduce oxidative stress the results of aging?
I am finished responding to your blog but hope this conversation can be used by people trying to find the answer for a medical challenge. Please reach out to someone that has used ASEA there are way more positive people out there then what is written about on these blogs
Rich, I’m not sure why you are quoting yourself here. I’ll let Vogel respond, but you should hope he is merciful in his rebuttal.
If ASEA (the company) believes any of their products are an answer to a medical challenge, they can get the FDA to certify it for that purpose, right?
I’m a very positive person. Protecting people’s wallets is a good thing, right? Thanks.
I would ask Rich to be specific in his claims and defense of ASEA. Also, I’d like to know what kind of dog does he have in this fight to be so tenacious in disputing what seems to be factual debunking. Now, as I am not a biologist, nor a pharmacist. But my daughter is, and I will be asking her about these redox signalers. If Rich has irrefutible evidence of the factual, laboratory and FDA approved product, I would love to see it. At $150+ for a case of four bottles of what is essentially salt water, it’d better live up to its claims. Otherwise, this is nothing more than an excercise in flabber jabber rap to me. Which of course once again begs the question….where does Rich sit, so that I know where he stands. Which dog does he have in this fight? Is he an owner or investor trying to keep this blog from sullying the company’s reputation? Is he a man who has bought into a fantasy and desperately wants to believe in its curative affects so that in the end, he dosen’t feel foolish and misled? Or is he simply a man that just loves to argue and debate, bot knowing when to surrender to logic?
My skin in this game is based on the fact that my daughter and wife are no longer taking life threatening drugs that are FDA approved because of ASEA. They are no longer plagued with depilating symptoms caused by a well-known auto-immune disease now going on 5 years.
I am just an average person that wants to help as many people as I can and seeing negative uneducated information published in this blog is my motivation.
Aspirin was never tested and approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) because it was grandfathered as an existing drug in 1938. Why don’t you call aspirin a scam or a placebo?
How much would you charge me to promote ASEA on your blog because I am very passionate about the product?
Rich, you failed in epic fashion on point #1, which was my request for you to name the alleged redox signaling molecules to which you were alluding. You came back mentioning only sodium chloride (table salt) and water — which is the gist of why you are being ridiculed for selling salt water and pretending that it acts as an antioxidant — and then you went on some pointless tangent about the Krebs cycle.
Rich said: “You are being very negative about something you know nothing about. You believe in FDA approved drugs but so many are toxic and detrimental to health read the warning labels. BioAgilytix certification company does the same for drug companies you love.”
Of course I have a negative view of ASEA. It’s utterly ridiculous and an insult to one’s intelligence. I have never expressed “belief” in FDA-approved drugs per se. I do however believe in abiding by US laws that require companies to provide substantiation of the efficacy and safety of their products to the FDA as a condition for approval for medical use, which is something that ASEA will never do because they are purveyors of worthless pyramid scheme salt water to idiots.
I merely asked you to specify what the alleged “redox” molecules are that this company certified to be present in ASEA’s salt water. You can’t even cope with that simple challenge, so obviously the certification is worthless, aside for giving the airheads who sell it something to yap about.
Rich said: “I think ASEA did the certification to dispel skeptics and prove that there were real redox molecules.”
If that’s the case then they are idiots and failed miserably. This meaningless certification you keep blathering about is more likely to further convince people that ASEA is fraudulent than to dispel even a grain of skepticism. You still can’t even name one signaling molecule that’s present in ASEA’s salt water.
Rich said: “Wrong again the amount of these molecules goes down with age and when you hit 70 you are down to 10% remaining. When it hits 0 you are dead. Wouldn’t it be great if we could supplement these molecules to reduce oxidative stress the results of aging?”
I am not wrong. All I said was that your initial question was idiotic; i.e., asking “what would happen to your body if you had no redox molecules in your body?” It was an especially stupid question because ASEA does not and cannot conceivably affect oxidative stress in the body or aging, nor does it contain or restore any of the endogenous and exogenous antioxidants that function in the human body.
Rich said: “I am finished responding to your blog but hope this conversation can be used by people trying to find the answer for a medical challenge.”
It’s not my blog, and if you’re hoping that people here elect to use your pyramid-scheme idiot-water for medical challenges, then you are a toxic parasite and your absence here will be a blessing to all.
Rich said, “The medium that maintains the redox signaling molecules is sodium chloride in pristine purified water similar to hospital grade IV solution…”
I could copy and paste the whole thing, but the rest of what you said was just copied and pasted biology information that you got from a website.
I did some research on this topic, because the only ingredient you mentioned was sodium chloride. That immediately jumped out as a red flag, because that is just the scientific way of saying salt. At this point, all you have suggested is that ASEA is glorified salt water, and according to this website, http://jcs.biologists.org/content/125/4/801 (one of the few that wasn’t ASEA propaganda) the process happens naturally in the body. If you are going to stress sciences that are out of your depth, and rave about salt water having miraculous powers, you aren’t going to get far in this forum.
Rich said, “You are being very negative about something you know nothing about. You believe in FDA approved drugs but so many are toxic and detrimental to health read the warning labels.”
It would seem that you are simply copying and pasting stuff that is meant to look technical to the amateur, and therefore ignorant to the subject as well. FDA approved drugs can be dangerous…nobody is going to argue with that, but they have active ingredients that are proprietary (not salt), and have strict guidelines for their usage.
Rich said, “BioAgilytix certification company does the same for drug companies you love. I think ASEA did the certification to dispel skeptics and prove that there were real redox molecules. Why are drug companies using Bioagilytics for their sales reps to promote drugs to local doctors or certify that each batch of drug meets specification?”
After taking a lot of time to investigate the website, since everything else comes up PRO ASEA on the web searches, I found two interesting things.
1. When you search their website for anything involving ASEA it comes up with 0 results…that seems a bit strange considering how many websites are bragging about the two being connected.
2. BioAgilytix (That is the proper spelling…at least you got it right 50% of the time) has nothing on their website about certifications, and instead are proud of the 300 drugs they have brought to the FDA for approval…seems strange to be bragging about a company’s certification, when they hold the FDA’s opinion higher than their own.
Rich said, “I am finished responding to your blog but hope this conversation can be used by people trying to find the answer for a medical challenge. Please reach out to someone that has used ASEA there are way more positive people out there then what is written about on these blogs.
Thank goodness, because your comments are copied and pasted ASEA propaganda garbage that you can’t even understand. By the way I just found another article about the whole fancy salt water thing here, https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/asea-another-expensive-way-to-buy-water/. It could be time to lay to rest the scientific nonsense…
Derrinred asked: “Where does Rich sit, so that I know where he stands. Which dog does he have in this fight? Is he an owner or investor trying to keep this blog from sullying the company’s reputation? Is he a man who has bought into a fantasy and desperately wants to believe in its curative affects so that in the end, he dosen’t feel foolish and misled? Or is he simply a man that just loves to argue and debate, bot knowing when to surrender to logic?”
Those are all reasonable explanations, but you’ll never get a reliable answer to the question. He could be a distributor, company executive, investor, or paid troll. Rich obviously has a financial interest, which he may or may not own up to. But more importantly, the blanket answer is always the same – idiot or a-hole. Idiot for falling for this moronic scam in the first place, and doubly so for being impervious to the airtight logical criticisms that have been presented and yet repeatedly ignored; or a-hole – knowing full well that the entire ASEA story is BS from front to back and yet foisting this snakeoil on people anyway. Beyond that, there is no mystery lurking here; just a parade of mind-boggling stupidity and reckless self-serving irresponsibility.
Action speaks louder than your words. I hope you have a good doctor and the drug companies that supports this site pays you well.
Rich said: “My skin in this game is based on the fact that my daughter and wife are no longer taking life threatening drugs that are FDA approved because of ASEA. They are no longer plagued with depilating symptoms caused by a well-known auto-immune disease now going on 5 years. I am just an average person that wants to help as many people as I can and seeing negative uneducated information published in this blog is my motivation.”
Um, so salt water cures autoimmune diseases eh?
Like I said – a liar, troll, and self-serving irresponsible a-hole. Doesn’t even have the guts to admit that he has a financial interest at stake. I think it’s high time to do the world a favor and start sending complaints to the FDA about the illegal marketing of ASEA.
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm
Rich,
I’m not paid by any drug companies. Don’t know why you would spread false information like that.
Rich said, “My skin in this game is based on the fact that my daughter and wife are no longer taking life threatening drugs that are FDA approved because of ASEA. They are no longer plagued with depilating symptoms caused by a well-known auto-immune disease now going on 5 years.”
Rich, why not take them to the ocean and have some fun for free then? The beaches are free to enter, and if salt water is their cure…I think it could be a fun and much cheaper treatment.
Rich said, “I am just an average person that wants to help as many people as I can and seeing negative uneducated information published in this blog is my motivation. Aspirin was never tested and approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) because it was grandfathered as an existing drug in 1938. Why don’t you call aspirin a scam or a placebo?”
Where do you get this crap from? As you can clearly see here on the FDA’s site there are many aspirins that have been approved. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/index.cfm?fuseaction=Search.SearchAction&SearchTerm=aspirin&SearchType=BasicSearch
Comparing acetaminophen and aspirin to salt as successful active ingredients is a total joke. This fallacious comparison is right there with the former.
Rich said, “Action speaks louder than your words. I hope you have a good doctor and the drug companies that supports this site pays you well.”
Rich you couldn’t be more right…you are verifiably manipulated by ASEA as you either make up crap, or copy and paste made up crap. You didn’t even leave when you said you would leave…as stated here, “I am finished responding to your blog but hope this conversation can be used by people trying to find the answer for a medical challenge. Please reach out to someone that has used ASEA there are way more positive people out there then what is written about on these blogs”. Time to be a man of your word Rich, and start taking action!
As you all know, Asea is not only salt water. So you can’t compare Asea with the sea. But all the life in the sea, depends on the same molecules that is in Asea. Without the molecules, there will not be any life in the sea or anywhere else.
But all you skeptics are like ostriches. – Rest your head in the sand. That’s where you belong.
Magnus, by your logic, I could bottle salt water and sell it at an expensive price claiming that without what’s in my bottle there wouldn’t life anywhere? Would you like to buy some bottled air from me?
Lazy Man, Keep Resting your head in the sand (or on your pillow, if you want to)
We will never agree. If you’ve done your research properly, you know that the molecules are found in ASEA, so open your eyes.
Well, my research lead me to this thread Asea: Another Expensive Way to Buy Water. I haven’t found Dr. Harriet Hall to be wrong about anything.
I need for two things to happen:
1. They will need to get FDA (or similar government) certification that these special molecules are indeed in ASEA
2. That they will get the FDA approval that ASEA water is helpful in treating some medical condition.
Until either of that happens, I stand by the good Dr. Hall’s outstanding, unbiased, work in studying ASEA.
First let me say that Rich has very strongly held beliefs. He has been and remains loyal to doing what he believes is right for him and his family. Trading insults with a man deeply imbeded in what he believes, is kinda pointless, don’tcha think?
Rich? Sodium Chloride is nothing more than table salt. Sea salt is also sodium chloride, ergo…table salt. My guess is that you can make your own solution just as effective as $150 a case. Your family’s health is more important to you than anything in the whole world. But don’t you think your wife and daughter not suffering from some auto-immune disease or affliction after treating them with this magical elixer, just a little bit suspect? I have an auto-immune disease called Hashimoto Disease. There is nothing short of replacement therapy that keeps me alive. Everyone I know with these types of disease would not survive with only the solution you promote. There’s so much more I can say , but I’d just be repeating myself. I refer you the White Rabbit sung by Grace slick and Jefferson Airplane. It seems to be appropo here. I don’t think you’re being honest.
“1. They will need to get FDA (or similar government) certification that these special molecules are indeed in ASEA”
Who do you think will pay for this?
Not the goverment because it is sold via independent distributors. So that will never happen.
The goverment will not earn a cent from this so they will not pay either. I have several customers on autoship and they have been using Asea for a long time now. I wonder why?
And for the other product Asea sell, the Renu 28 gel, I have a blog I DON’T promote. I get at least one sale per week here in Norway.(searchable on google) Meaning people are satisfied with the product. Why? Because the product work.
Oh now we see that Magnus is finally admitting that he sells the product. Sorry, but your biased, unsubstantiated claims don’t hold weight with me.
And of course ASEA would pay for it, because they created the product. This is pretty standard operating procedure. They could also get grants from legitimate science organizations. Finally, if they really can show that the proof of concept works, they can raise funds from private investors or go public and use the funds from an IPO.
Are you trying to tell me that ASEA management isn’t smart enough to figure this stuff out?
He he It is not a secret that I’m a distributor for Asea :)
I do not know the procedures how it’s done in the United States in terms of approval.
I assume Asea is familiar with how it works.
I’m only a distributor.
I heard that FDA does not approve dietary supplements. Mostly only drugs are approved by FDA, and that they regulate foods ETC.
So no need for Asea to try to get it approved.
There is no NEED for the ASEA to get approval for sale as a supplement in the United States. This simply means that I can sell my bottled salt water. It doesn’t mean that my bottled salt water DOES anything to help people’s health
In order to make a claim that a product help with a medical condition, ASEA NEEDS to get FDA approval. There are supplements that have this approval as this list shows. You probably know about calcium and vitamin D for bone health for example.
So please don’t confuse people about FDA approval for selling a product, vs. FDA approval that a product helps with a medical condition.
The useful step is the later, obviously.
And if you don’t like the way the United States does it, show me another country that has approved ASEA for helping with a medical condition.
You know we, as distributors, are not allowed to claim that Asea or any alternative products help with any medical conditions. This is the rule for most countries.
You could claim that a calcium and vitamin D supplement helps with osteoporosis because the FDA has been given enough evidence to support those claims.
You, as distributors of Asea, are not allowed to make claims about medical conditions, because Asea hasn’t taken the steps to get the FDA approval for such claims.
You seem to be talking in circles. Because Asea hasn’t proved it to FDA, you can’t make claims. You should be making demands to Asea management to prove it to the FDA like calcium and vitamin D rather than wasting your time here.
This is for Magnus,
You remind me of the footwear I take with me to the rivers and lakes here in Colorado; flip-flops. You flip flop on your position regularly. If you’re going to defend a position, shouldn’t you choose an honest defensible position. You say that those in an arguable position against you are nothing more than people with their heads in the sand, but there’s nothing logical in that point of view except insults and alienation. I offer that point of view to your opposition as well. But their point is well taken. You and Rich have offered no proof that your product is superior and beneficial. In point of FACT, you have quoted other people’s claims with bias and without foundation. I’m reminded of the movie Outlaw Josie Wales when the Elixir Salesman was asked what was in the bottle. He stated that there were several ingrediants and danced a bit before settling on the statement of him just being their salesman. He was told by the potential customer to drink it himself. He said, “Well, what do you expect from a non-believer?” That is essentially what you are saying to the world. You’re just distributors, like him, looking to get dollars out of unsuspecting customers. By the way, exlixirs sold in those days were on average, 80 proof alcohol. That cured pretty much anything for a few hours anyway. (}:
Since Sodium Chloride has been established as nothing more than table salt in pristine water (whatever that means); I know, I know, pristine water is water so pure that it can be injected into your bloodstream. IV’s are also sodium based, in other words, saltwater.
But no one here has mentioned what happens to a person’s blood pressure when too much sodium is aquired by the human body and its very dangerous affects! Hypertension, water weight gain from retention, etc. As I am not a healthcare professional, scientist, nutrionist or researcher, I may only speak as a lay person. Based on your conversations alone, you both are lay persons, as well. Neither of the three of us can or may speak as experts. The difference between us is that I don’t make the attempt. Quoting company verbage, referring to studies commissioned by ASEA, is both reckless and dangerous for two reasons. First, companies often shop their data to companies and individuals who will, with the right amount of cash and incentives, spin and tweak data to reach conclusions the company wants. Lawyers do this all the time in Civil and Criminal cases! Both sides bring in their own experts to debunk other so-called experts. Second, the potentially harmful effects of an untested formula. When I say untested formula, I mean a formula that has not undergone multiple double and triple blind studies, peer reviews and readily available publicized documents detailing in great detail, the formula, the precise steps that created the formula, the research, the studies, the clinical trials and the peer review. There are many supplements, thousands and thousands, that do not undergo these steps. The FDA states there is no feasible way to verify the truth to all the claims. So they chose in their infinite idiotic beaureacratic minds to just create a set of guidelines and penalties for violating them. The only way they actually find out there was a violation is when many people begin to complain. Supplement companies know this. This is why the salesman in Josie Wales and those in real life become so successful. Just imply their curative affects without any detail. Dance around the issues and follow the company script. Don’t reveal anything even remotely close to the truth. MLM’s are famous for doing just that. Talk for hours and hours promoting their whatever, without any detail or factual foundation. Like the Wizard of Oz, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. They appeal to the emotional buyers and stay away like the plague from logical thinking consumers. They know there are more impulsive consumers in this world than the consumers who use logic. Impulse buyers far, far out number, those that choose to look behind the mirror. Plus if they properly spin their claims, there’s an outstanding possibility of repeat business and word-of-mouth advertising. This is a Win-Win for them if they sell enough product to gullible consumers. Then they can make all sorts of claims and add a little scientific data and research to cement the product’s legitimacy, and they will come and they will buy! Magnus and Rich, you both a just tiny cogs in their very large machinery. That is, unless one or both of you are high up in the foodchain of ASEA. Which if that is the case, you’re attempts at pleading ignorance to knowing the facts as ASEA sees them, is an insult to my intelligence and those who have dog in this fight.
Your naysayers are attempting to protect ignorant consumers. This hurts your bottomline, so it’s doubly worth it to attack, insult and misdirect facts in your case. I look forward to your responses. I’m willing to wager that your responses will not be logical or unemotional. Since I lack the genes to be affected by those, your potential insults and your position of feeling authoritative are wasted on me. Logic and truth are the only things that gets my attention. Good luck to you both on that.
This is for Derrinred…..Bla Bla Bla!!! If you say so!!!I did not bother to read your post.
I can tell you without a doubt this man who wrote this is absolutely wrong. I was a sceptical as they came. There are SOOOO many scientific studies done on this its unbelievable. People that had chronic conditions, myself included, don’t have them anymore. We’re talking no cure conditions. I won’t get into specifics because of the FDA. I have many friends that take Asea and their doctors said they’d be dead months or years ago. Just by saying there is no science to back this product up, I can tell you that he did 0 homework as there are many scientific studies. In short, I don’t no about other products and MLM’s but this guy is dead wrong.
Ryan Sawicki said: “I can tell you without a doubt this man who wrote this is absolutely wrong.”
If that were the case, why wouldn’t you try to point at least one example?
Ryan Sawicki said: “I was a sceptical (sic) as they came.”
I doubt that. You can’t even spell skeptical.
Ryan Sawicki said: “There are SOOOO many scientific studies done on this its (sic) unbelievable.”
Unbelievable? Really? You’re fond of hyperbole aren’t you? How many is “SOOOO many” and why didn’t you provide even one example?
Ryan Sawicki said: “People that had chronic conditions, myself included, don’t have them anymore. We’re talking no cure conditions. I won’t get into specifics because of the FDA.”
Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter. You are a distributor of this BS salt water snakeoil and are violating U.S. law by promoting it as a disease cure, while simultaneously acknowledging that you’re trying to dodge the FDA. That makes you an a-hole of the lowest order.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryansawicki
Ryan Sawicki said: “I have many friends that take Asea and their doctors said they’d be dead months or years ago.”
So you’re saying that these alleged doctors expected their patients to die from drinking Asea? Interesting!
Ryan Sawicki said: “I can tell you that he did 0 homework as there are many scientific studies.”
And so? Where is this invisible homework and the alleged studies you brag of?
Ryan Sawicki said: “In short, I don’t no (sic) about other products and MLM’s but this guy is dead wrong.”
Wrong about what exactly? I know quite a bit about other MLMs and MLM products and you seem to be just as ridiculous as the worst of them.
BTW, is this you? If not, it must suck to have the same name as a convicted child pornographer.
http://www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2014/08/12/glenside_news_globe_times_chronicle/news/doc53e8f65a1c690468125622.txt
Asea is going to change the way the world thinks. When the Redox signalling gets turned on globally we can control humans and have a better society as we cull the dying and ugly. Our tije is now for world domination. When we control every human’s redox signalling we just turn the signal to drone and we have the world ……..
Well I’ve published my article more than 3 years ago and I think people had mentioned it to me around 2 years before that.
In 5 years, it doesn’t seem like the world cares about Asea.
I’m not sure I’m looking forward to your vision of controlling humans for world domination.
So, typing on my phone makes me a fool? Yes. There were typos. I violated what policies exactly? Please tell me which disease or diseases I said this cures specifically? So I didn’t violate any laws but I wonder about slander? Implying that I’m a sex offender? You obviously have my LinkedIn page. You know that’s not me. Seems like you just like to bitch! Slander me again and well see who’s violating laws. I wouldn’t waste my time with this guy on any issue.
Ryan Sawicki said: “So, typing on my phone makes me a fool?”
No, saying stupid things makes you a tool, since you asked.
Ryan Sawicki said: “Yes. There were typos. I violated what policies exactly?”
The typos were excusable; it was the vapidity that was problematic.
Ryan Sawicki said: “Please tell me which disease or diseases I said this cures specifically?”
You weren’t specific. You made a general claim that the product cure incurable chronic diseases. Don’t try to beat around the bush. Such claims are illegal, aside from being just plain stupid.
Ryan Sawicki said: “So I didn’t violate any laws but I wonder about slander? Implying that I’m a sex offender? You obviously have my LinkedIn page. You know that’s not me. Seems like you just like to bitch! Slander me again and well see who’s violating laws.”
Um, yes you did. The law prohibits you making claims that Asea cures chronic diseases. Aside from being dishonest, how can you be so slow as to not understand this? Suggesting that what I wrote was slander makes you seem even dumber than at first blush. Well done!
Don’t think that your veiled legal threat is going to accomplish anything other than to make people even more curious as to whether you’re a sex offender, and more likely to report you to the FDA for illegal marketing of snakeoil.
http://www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2014/08/12/glenside_news_globe_times_chronicle/news/doc53e8f65a1c690468125622.txt#sthash.JuYxsxGg.dpuf
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm
Ryan said, “So, typing on my phone makes me a fool? Yes. There were typos.”
No, but you should stick to using smaller words if you don’t know how to spell. It will help to make you look better.
Ryan said, “I violated what policies exactly? Please tell me which disease or diseases I said this cures specifically?”
Ryan, you are treading on thin water here…you specifically said you had a chronic condition that was cured, but then didn’t go into details because of the FDA…that sounds to me like you know it’s a placebo effect at best, and you are doing your best to make it sound significant. You clearly understand that you are not allowed to claim these products cure ailments, and yet you do your best to suggest it.
Ryan said, “So I didn’t violate any laws but I wonder about slander? Implying that I’m a sex offender? You obviously have my LinkedIn page.”
First of all, that would not be slander, but rather libel. (Only pointing this out because you made a big deal about spelling, and I find vocabulary to be much more important…) Secondly, you are now taking the opposite stance of implying meaning. First you decide to be perfectly vague with your chronic conditions cure comment, and get mad when it gets linked to presumption, and now you are trying to do the same to Vogel when he simply asked if that was you. Pick one side or the other Ryan, but don’t try to manipulate the situations because it makes you look weak.
Ryan said, “Slander me again and well see who’s violating laws. I wouldn’t waste my time with this guy on any issue.”
Technically, you are probably the closest to violating anything. Also, you probably don’t want to have a debate with Vogel, because he has you outclassed in every point on the subject.
So since I have digestive problems, I started consulting with a Nutritional Counselor who wants me to buy more and more of this ASEA product, and he is also a distributor. Any comments?
Perhaps get unbiased advice from a professional who isn’t trying to make money selling you product?
I was totally disabled and bedridden from a progressive and incurable brain disease. My family was preparing to move me to assisted living to die. My doctors gave us no hope of recovery. Then I started drinking ASEA. TWO WEEKS LATER I was up and back on my feet and my health returned so that I am back at work now. NOTHING else had changed to facilitate this miracle recovery. My doctors have conceded it was the ASEA. You are doing many people a great diservice making wild claims and unfounded accusations. Had it not been for ASEA I would have died. Shame on you. I bet you won’t even publish this post.
Alison, No Your MLM Health Product Does Not Work.
Please post your doctors and their contact information so we can verify that we may verify your anonymous claims about this miracle.
Let’s make sure that Asea is putting this in large scale clinical trials to scientifically verify this miracle. Can you give me details on that?
Alison, will you agree to take a lie detector test. If you fail I win your house and if you pass you win mine ….
Start with the names and phone numbers of the doctors please…
You MLM scam people would sell your own grandmother if you thought it would make a profit. Your greed is terrible and you don’t care who you hurt.
People who sell products like Asea are pure evil. They want a buck and don’t care about the consequences. I want to sue them all. All the Mormons at the top of the food chain with their sacred underwear and all that crap.
Everyone is so hell bent on attacking Rich when he is just stating his beliefs. I was introduced to Asea by my sick friend because I too have been sick for quite some time. I do not believe in MLM as j am approached constantly. I figured I would try anything at the state I was in. I do not sell it I only buy it but I will definitely sell it if it continues helping me. I have had far more stamina for some reason taking it and believe me I had none. I also have more mental clarity when I was consistently in a fog. I have noticed I am getting through the day not fatigued or having so much joint pain. I don’t know why these changes but I have been drinking it a month and I am a horrible skeptic. But I am telling you my body has started to shift in a better direction. Believe me when I say it can’t be placebo effect because with my illnesses there was no way to talk myself or believe myself into getting better. My toxicity level was far to high. So anyway whatever this is it’s working for me so I will continue to see if it gets even better.
MLM Scam Troll With the Nom de Guerre “Ann” said: Everyone is so hell bent on attacking Rich when he is just stating his beliefs.
Rich did not simply state his beliefs; he made numerous statements that were factually incorrect; grossly so. No one really cares if some idiot believes that MLM scam salt water cures diseases; it’s the facts that matter.
Ann said: “I was introduced to Asea by my sick friend because I too have been sick for quite some time.”
If your friend is offering you MLM scam salt water to alleviate sickness, then they are not your friend.
Ann said: “I figured I would try anything at the state I was in.”
Anything? Magnetic bracelets? Witch doctors? Dog shit?
Ann said: “I have had far more stamina for some reason taking it and believe me I had none. I also have more mental clarity when I was consistently in a fog. I have noticed I am getting through the day not fatigued or having so much joint pain.”
MLM scam salt water doesn’t increase stamina or mental clarity, nor does it alleviate brain fog, fatigue, or joint pain. You are delusional.
Ann said: “I don’t know why these changes but I have been drinking it a month and I am a horrible skeptic.”
I can buy that, if by “horrible skeptic” you meant someone who is horrifically bad at being skeptical.
Ann said: “Believe me when I say it can’t be placebo effect because with my illnesses there was no way to talk myself or believe myself into getting better.”
Believe you that MLM scam salt water cured your unnamed illness??? Not bloody likely, parasite.
Ann said: “My toxicity level was far to high.”
Haha. Do you even know what those words mean, dolt?
You know I really thought that you were trying to help us but then I got a red flag because you are being so vile to some of the posters.
I suddenly remembered that nutritional and health related products have a disclosure that also allows them to not disclose their secret weapon so to speak as in recipes. I know it was a long time ago that I had read about this statute that was created in order to protect businesses from copy cats.
I think this was when i spent on the greatest vitamin in the world that yes, had to close it’s doors. I spent thousands and never got off the ground because there were too many learning packages to buy and go through it was exhausting for a beginner. The one thing I always remembered is that they had a proprietary ingredient that was undisclosed to the public “not even in their ingredients” and it was all legal.
They went down because too many complaints from ppl buying into the mlm who didn’t make any money, I found out years later. Their claim was that the company’s main focus and avenue in making money was not the actual sales of the product but the sales of info packages to it’s distributors.
So I’ve been research as well and I got to tell you even on Amazon there are countless of positive claims about Asea, if they are all bought then that means that nothing on the internet is true..and it makes me upset because I got interested too. js
I’m not vile at all to posters.
Though I have to admit that it’s pretty ridiculous that people keep making health claims about a product when the company itself won’t get it approved by the FDA to make such health claims. It is also ridiculous that this happens with dozens of MLM health products. It would appear that by selling an health product through a pyramid it becomes a magical elixir that works if you listen to the salespeople. However, correct me if I’m wrote, but never has an MLM product been approved by the FDA for any medical condition.
There ARE fake reviews on Amazon. There’s even a company, Fakespot, that tries to help you see how many fake reviews there are. It looks to me that the Asea reviews on Amazon are pretty negative. That’s a ton of 1-star reviews.
Supplements aren’t approved by the FDA
[Editor’s Note: Thanks this is well-covered in numerous places on this site. Medical claims most definitely have to be approved by the FDA. You might want to review this list of supplements that are approved by the FDA for medical conditions. So yes, supplements can be approved by the FDA in the context of this conversation I’m trying to have. If we want to agree that essential oils do nothing other than smell nice, then we can agree that they fall under the umbrella of not needing approval.]
SharewLove said: “You know I really thought that you were trying to help us but then I got a red flag because you are being so vile to some of the posters.”
Huh? Lazy Man is clearly trying to help (and succeeding) and is not vile to anyone. Quite the contrary. He’s got the patience of a saint, enduring endless hostility and moronic BS from the pyramid schemers. You should re-read the comments because you clearly rushed to judgment.
SharewLove said: “I suddenly remembered that nutritional and health related products have a disclosure that also allows them to not disclose their secret weapon so to speak as in recipes. I know it was a long time ago that I had read about this statute that was created in order to protect businesses from copy cats.”
Huh? “A disclosure that allows them to not disclose…”??? Not sure what you’re talking about but MLM companies typically do disclose the ingredients in their products. If there are any companies that don’t, having a “proprietary” formula wouldn’t really protect them against copycats -– a patented formula would be the best way to do that. Nor would it be remotely difficult to knockoff any of the stupid mundane products in the MLM realm, proprietary or patented. In fact, it would be fair to say copycat me-too products are the hallmark of MLM – e.g., second-rate energy drinks, crappy “superfruit” juices, sketchy antioxidant blends, etc. It’s like a discount supermarket for really bad and truly unoriginal ideas, except instead of a discount they offer a 10-30-fold markup over retail, adding insult to injury.
The MLM formula is simple – sell overpriced substandard products as the entry fee for participation in a pyramid scheme. That’s really what it boils down to in every single case.
SharewLove said: “I think this was when i spent on the greatest vitamin in the world that yes, had to close it’s doors. I spent thousands and never got off the ground because there were too many learning packages to buy and go through it was exhausting for a beginner.”
Why so cryptic? What was the name of the vitamin/company? Regardless, sounds like a typical MLM scam. Sorry you got burned. Hope that the company paid a price for it and that you learned from your mistake.
SharewLove said: “The one thing I always remembered is that they had a proprietary ingredient that was undisclosed to the public “not even in their ingredients” and it was all legal.”
Don’t be so sure about it being legal. Nutritional product labels are required to list every ingredient without exception. If the company you are alluding to didn’t do so, they were presumably breaking the law.
SharewLove said: “They went down because too many complaints from ppl buying into the mlm who didn’t make any money, I found out years later. Their claim was that the company’s main focus and avenue in making money was not the actual sales of the product but the sales of info packages to it’s distributors.”
That’s a common (and valid) complaint with all MLMs – i.e., they are pyramid schemes. The other common complaint is that their products suck and are horrifically overpriced.
SharewLove said: “So I’ve been research as well and I got to tell you even on Amazon there are countless of positive claims about Asea, if they are all bought then that means that nothing on the internet is true..and it makes me upset because I got interested too.”
Welcome to the shady underworld of MLM trolling. That’s how they roll. They are con artists out to prey on others. It makes me upset too. That’s why I have tried to help counter their deceptive propaganda and improve the signal to noise ratio. You should do the same; hang around; join the cause and learn more.
But let’s not digress too much from the topic at hand right? This is about Asea after all.
They don’t need FDA approval, thank God.
But, if they were really credible they would do an NIH Peer Reviewed Clinical Study and get it published in a scientific journal.
Why haven’t they done this ? That’s the real question to be answered.
My understanding is that FDA approval is necessary in order to make certain claims about helping with diseases. This is very different than putting together a supplement with vitamin C and vitamin E that doesn’t require FDA approval.
You must be sure you are explaining which “FDA Approval” you are referring to, because again they are very, very different.
Even companies with peer reviewed clinical studies published in scientific journals are not necessarily pushing credible products. There are a lot of ways to work backwards from the goal of making a product look good. For example I wrote You are Easily Fooled!, which explains how one person fooled millions into thinking chocolate helps weight loss. Here’s How.
I stand by my believe that they should the proper FDA approval to make a claim that it works against a disease or medical condition. This is a lot more important than one lonely study. In fact, it would be very telling if there are no specific studies on ASEA already out there. (I haven’t looked in a while.)
Dear Lazy Man,
I am writing to let you or any legitimate beverage entrepreneur out there know that there’s a cure for the Multi-Level Marketing Disease you are discussing called ASEA. The best way to profit from an MLM like this is to simply “knock them off” or duplicate their product and make it available directly to the consumer without distributors.
For example, our bottled water company was recently approached by a pair of scientists who have first hand knowledge about ASEA, MonaVie & Nikken & have not only duplicated the ASEA formula, but also the way it is made. In addition, a few clinically proven ingredients will be added, all for just $5 a bottle not $40! Improvements & modifications were made to the formula as to not infringe on any existing patents.
I believe they are going to call the beverage ” From The SEA Redox Signaling Water” to take advantage of mass ASEA marketing. They are looking for a launch partner with beverage experience.
You will be able to order one 32 oz bottle at a time online or at 7-11 for about $4.99.
If allowable, anyone wanting to contact the scientific team should forward their email to me via this blog.
Regards,
I don’t know if that’s a cure. Sounds like exploitation to me. Maybe you can pass on the company information and scientific team.
I have used this product for about a month. I did not sign up to sell it. When I ordered a case of asea I got a tube of asea gel. I am most impressed with the gel. I have been using it on my face, neck and chest. It has fixed some ruff spots on my chest and a few little growths fell off my neck and one in my eyebrows.
I will continue to use this product as I do see changes in my skin.
I also drink about 4 oz of the water a day. One month is not long enough to tell if I have enjoyed health benefits from drinking it.
Since I am a positive person and I did see results from the gel, I will continue both .
Hi, my Doctor in Australia convinced me to buy this Asea gel tube for $ 50. I knew straight away it was only bloody water. My Neighbor had the same experience. When I told my Doctor I am not buying this expensive shit, the Doctor went crazy and told me he does not care about my pain if I don’t buy it. I told my Doctor to cool down or he gets a heart attack. I am now preparing a letter to my Doctor to stop selling this shit or I report him to the Medical Board and the Police fraud Dept. All my friends and Family laughing about it. I never expected a Doctor acting like this. I will put a end to it for sure.
Thank you for this article. I had a coworker approach me with this stuff. An older woman whose worked with our company for years. I knew immediately this was a MLM scam but watched the video she sent anyway. I politely turned her offer down, attached a copy of your article, as well as remind her of conflict of interest regarding the skin products (we work in a high end specialty store with a full line of cosmetics). It makes me angry vulnerable people keep falling for this crap. Now I need to deal with the woman on FB pushing Plexus.
I have an article on Plexus as well: Is Plexus a Scam?
Ok, I have no exposure in this, I don’t sell the product, I’m not an associate, I never heard of this stuff before, and nobody knows I am posting this nor has asked me/paid me to post this. I went to a naturopath and told her about achy knees, and she sold me a tube of Renu28 by Asea. I knew nothing about it. I rubbed a tiny amount on each day, and the pain I had for years that sometimes kept me from climbing stairs disappeared after a week. I have extreme pain in my hands that sometimes keeps me from holding things it gets so bad, and a week of daily dabs of Renu28 rubbed in and the pain is gone. I have to use a tiny amount 2 or 3 times a week only to keep my hands and knees functional. I’m not making this up. Yup my research on the marketing tells me this sort of scheme sucks, ESPECIALLY in my case where I fear the product will disappear because of the company’s shenanigans. Unlike some of our leading politicians this year, I still think lying is wrong, and I’m not lying. I just wish this stuff came through reputable supply chains so it would stay around.
If you aren’t selling the product and aren’t an associate or being paid, why be anonymous? Why not be out in the open so that people can verify that those claims are true?
C said: “I went to a naturopath and told her about achy knees, and she sold me a tube of Renu28 by Asea.”
Renu28 is a wrinkle cream. A scandalously overpriced wrinkle cream. These are the ingredients:
“Water, Sodium Magnesium Silicate, Disodium Phosphate, Sodium Chloride.”
http://myaseaonline.info/starterkit/us-en/ASEA-Renu-28-Brochure.pdf
A more worthless product would be hard to find. It has literally no active ingredients – it’s salt water mixed with clay (sodium magnesium silicate). Hard to imagine why a naturopath would have sold it to you to relieve knee pain, aside from straight up robbery, but then again, Asea hacks aren’t exactly known for their honesty and integrity.
C said: “I rubbed a tiny amount on each day, and the pain I had for years that sometimes kept me from climbing stairs disappeared after a week. I have extreme pain in my hands that sometimes keeps me from holding things it gets so bad, and a week of daily dabs of Renu28 rubbed in and the pain is gone.”
Oh, that’s easy to explain. Renu28 is wrinkle cream with no active ingredients. There is absolutely nothing in it that would relieve pain. Hence you are mistakenly attributing those effects to the product.
C said: “I’m not making this up…I still think lying is wrong, and I’m not lying.”
Telling people that Asea’s inert wrinkle cream relieved hand and knee pain sure seems like a whopper of a lie, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you actually believe it and are just making a wildly incorrect assumption about cause and effect.
Renu 28 is not a wrinkle cream :D
It’s an anti wrinkle Gel.
It also contains redox signaling molecules (I’m sure you know that) but The molecules are not an ingredient added to the product. The molecules are produced during the 3 day process it takes to make Aseas products.
Is good for acne, rashes, sunburn, dry skin, calluses, rough skin,
blotchy skin, age spots, insect bites, itching, cuts, abrasions, scars etc.
[Editor’s Note: This comment was submitted without understanding that no one on this blog is advocating for any “miracle drugs.”]
Don’t waste your time posting on this site. They are paid by big pharma to bash things that compete with their miracle drugs with life threating side effects.
its not placebo; anyone who sprays the ASEA bottle or uses the gel, on sunburn, the sunburn heals amazingly fast So there is SOMETHING factually healing about the product For those who do not want to believe this, nothing will convince them so these blog is a waste of time for most, either way….as far as ingesting the product and results, it appears mixed Which is OK as aspirin doesnt help everyone but its not bogus!….the effects on sunburn are amazing; fact! So for the naysayers who are either paid opposing schills or just morons, go eat dust and go away
This article is years and years old and this is the first mention of sunburn that I recall. I don’t believe that it is fact that ASEA is sunburn medication. I don’t see an active ingredient like lidocaine that has been proven time and time again.
The efficacy of aspirin is not in question. It’s been proven time and time again and the medical community in countries all over the world agree on it being effective.
Can you say the same for ASEA? Why not?
(Full disclosure: I wasn’t paid to write this article. I disclosed my motivation in the introduction.)
Lazy Man,
Many people have witnessed and or experienced the healing effects of the product for sunburn and other maladies…
[Editor’s Response: Ten years ago, I heard the same thing reported about MonaVie curing cancer and autism. It turns out that those witnesses were wrong as MonaVie was revealed to be nothing more than sugar water. It’s not just MonaVie salespeople making these claims, it’s just about every MLM you can think of!. I believe that ASEA slipped under their radar maybe because Truth in Advertising focused on DSA companies. In responding quickly to you, I don’t know if ASEA is in the DSA, but we can discuss it further if you show that they are.
For more see: No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not Work.]
who cares if you do not believe it….
[Editor’s Response: It seems that you care, because you are posting here.]
MLM ‘s offer very few people real money earnings which is their real evil and illusion – your lame attempts at validating a product with conventional ‘logic’ fails big time…
[Editor’s Response: I don’t think I tried to validate the product. In fact, I think I did the opposite. From this FTC document it doesn’t seem like the MLM association (DSA) offers too many real earnings. In fact, it seems like you’d be better off driving an Uber for a few hours.]
your attempts to use supposed ‘valid’ comparisons fail as we know currently the recent admittance of ALL the conventional organizational liars who said cholesterol in eggs was bad for you now admit they lied as was the lie Crisco was good for you Who do you shill for Lazy Man thats the real question lol
[Editor’s Response: I have written around 2500 articles on this website. You are an anonymous person with no history and the most generic of names. For all we know you could be the CEO of ASEA. My extensive history shows that I’m not a shill for anyone.
I don’t think the scientific community ever believed that Crisco was healthy. And I don’t think “ALL” conventional people said that cholesterol in eggs was bad. Please cite your sources on these claims.]
Very much appreciate your insight… so there’s absolutely no benefit from ASEA… It’s s total SCAM ?
I was wondering if you ever considered changing
the layout of your website? Its very well written; I love
what youve got to say. But maybe you could a
little more in the way of content so people could connect with it better.
Youve got an awful lot of text for only having one or two pictures.
Maybe you could space it out better?
Yes, changes are coming soon. Big changes.
I do not sell asea – although i would if it was not an MLM – I have it on hand for clients – I can tell you that it for sure works amazingly well as a spray for sunburn , better than anything I have ever seen faster than cortisol too So there is ore to it being just ‘salt water’ it is amazing that so many people get vigilant over products that can work yet remain morons over bigger events and machinations that control their puny lives wowowow
it is great that there are these ‘watch dog’ peeps out there letting common dum b dumbs that there are many scam or inflated products
However, not all are and this asea product is on to something Just sayin’
jonesy Johnson said: “I can tell you that it for sure works amazingly well as a spray for sunburn , better than anything I have ever seen faster than cortisol too So there is ore to it being just ‘salt water’”
Nope, it’s just ionized salt water, nothing more. And you could make it yourself by the bucket-load for pennies.
jonesy Johnson: “it is amazing that so many people get vigilant over products that can work yet remain morons over bigger events and machinations that control their puny lives wowowow.”
Yes, morons are a pain in the ass — like the kind that attribute miracles to ridiculous pyramid scheme snakeoil products.
jonesy Johnson: “this asea product is on to something Just sayin’”
Yeah, and what they are “on to” is people’s gullibility and susceptibility to being scammed for lots of money. Lucrative gig for those with no conscience or moral compass.
I worked for Asea a while ago in the manufacturing plant in Utah. Please note that this is just my personal opinion. I worked on the production line with other temporally workers. While I wasn’t involved directly in the manufacturing process, I am educated enough to see what was coming in and out as prime materials. First off what an ugly and low quality bottle for being 20 USD a bottle. Second, I became friends with several that where involved in the manufacturing process. They made comments about the company changing formulations and keeping it from its distributor for fear that they may notice the ingredients. Second, man did they treat people like shit (excuse the language). I’ve been in college since then and when I learned about how our body use and naturally creates redox molecules, I can see where the marketing comes from. The way the product is ingested, I don’t think there is real evidence that will show that those molecules are conserved, assuming that they are really there. First of, our stomach has acid. Redox molecules are known to interact with acids. I think most people that have a testimony is merely because they actually start consuming healthy levels of water.
Here I am “researching” this product that a friend is dipping into her retirement funds to dole out large sums in support of and actually believes in the product. Anything I say will not penetrate. It is GOD in a bottle to her. She has requested I contact a friend who is on a dozen different medications with severe heart problems so that she can indoctrinate her into this belief as well. I can only call it a belief because what I have read so far it is a placebo, something you need to believe in. And it does work–as several here have attested. I discovered self-healing long ago–it’s using your mind to heal your body and when you pay a really big price it seems to work even better. (I’m keeping my money in the bank.) Thanks for doing this research I will pass this along to my friend who in spite of her illness is a smart “cookie”.
Thanks you!
Your quote. If ASEA actually worked for any disease, the company would do the clinical trials and get it approved by the FDA for helping with that disease. If proven to work, they wouldn’t be planning to do a billion in sales, they’d be planning to do 10 billion overnight.
FDA does not approve any product natural or man made that does not, injure,kill, disable, or have major side effects. Which in-turn show you the safety of the product, if it is not approved by FDA. Asea manufacturer is FDA inspected and FDA approved. Following FDA procedures.
There are many clinical studies on Asea, FDA state that you may tell your healing story, but you may not tell other peoples stories. You may tell how it helped you, how much you used it and the issue it healed or cured. It has done amazing life saving things in our family and many others.. Do your research you have no clue.
By the way salt water does not detox the body, Asea does. Salt water does not heal in its natural form.
In the United States, it is against federal regulations for supplement manufacturers to claim that these products prevent or treat any disease. Companies are allowed to use what is referred to as “Structure/Function” wording if there is substantiation of scientific evidence for a supplement providing a potential health effect.[6] An example would be “_____ helps maintain healthy joints”, but the label must bear a disclaimer that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) “has not evaluated the claim and that the dietary supplement product is not intended to “diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease,” because only a drug can legally make such a claim.”[6] The FDA enforces these regulations, and also prohibits the sale of supplements and supplement ingredients that are dangerous, or supplements not made according to standardized good manufacturing practices (GMPs).
“FDA-Cleared” vs “FDA-Approved”
Clearance requests are for medical devices that prove they are “substantially equivalent” to the predicate devices already on the market.
ASEA has been through this process and is a none toxic item…. Approved requests are for items that are new or substantially different and need to demonstrate “safety and efficacy”, for example it may be inspected for safety in case of new toxic hazards. Both aspects need to be proved or provided by the submitter to ensure proper procedures are followed.[42]
FDA classification ASEA follows.
http://aseaimpact.com/blog/2016/02/12/aseas-safety-and-classification/
It’s FDA Approved as a dietary supplement. It’s not FDA approved to be helpful with a medical condition such as a medicine like Viagra. Asea could choose to go that route that wish to. They seem to choose to be happy to have it approved as a dietary supplement that is NOT approved to be helpful with a medical condition.
No one is arguing the dietary supplement part. The question is why aren’t they pursuing to get it approved to help with a medical condition? They certainly can do that.
Lazy Man said: “It’s FDA Approved as a dietary supplement.”
Minor correction, and I am sure that you know this already. It’s not FDA-approved as anything. According to the terms of DHSEA, supplements are marketed without any pre-market approval. The article Michele linked to even stated so explicitly.
That aside, I’m still laughing over Michele’s addle-brained cheerleading about Asea’s laughably moronic chlorinated salt water. Really, a front-runner for the dumbest MLM scam of all time. The only thing that could top it would be if an MLM were to sell bottles of air.
Thanks that’s what I meant.
My knees are 80% better and I’m 50yrs old. My Grandma can walk better and Father in law cholesterol went down. Whatever it is it works. Been using it for 2 yrs. Condemnation before investigation is the highest form of ignorance. Not that you’re dumb but you didn’t do your full research.
You should read and understand the placebo effect and other reasons why you may *think* the product actually worked, but didn’t – http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/no-your-mlm-health-product-does-not-work/
Perhaps with other products, but not when the doctor dose a blood test and confirm that your Cholesterol is normal. Also I was diagnosed with mild arthritis any 35. If what you say is the case then why wouldn’t any other product give you the same results?
We saw people claim the same thing with MonaVie 10 years ago and it’s been duplicated by nearly every health MLM since. Truth in Advertising has covered dozens of MLMs and thousands or so illegal claims here.
And again, doctor’s have written this ASEA – Still Selling Snake Oil. So maybe your cholesterol did become normal, but doctors seem to be saying it had nothing to do with ASEA.
Lazy Man said: “You should read and understand the placebo effect and other reasons why you may *think* the product actually worked, but didn’t”
I’d go a different route and suggest he look up the definitions of the words “liar”, “troll”, and “rube”.
What kind of dolt would insist that MLM chlorinated salt water has miraculous curative properties? It’s so absurd that it staggers the imagination.
Thank you LM for your help understanding what a lovely but very gullible friend of mine was trying to sell to me!
One thing still: what do I say to her when she says it’s not a pyramid scheme because no one is getting rich on it?
You are welcome.
As this reputable, unbiased, scientist claimed more than 5 years ago, “ASEA: Another Expensive Way to Buy Water.”
I don’t think a pyramid scheme has a requirement that someone is getting rich on it, but who says that no one is. If my memory services, it was $70 a bottle for what amounted to salt water, so if no one is getting rich on it, it’s got to be a whole new level of incompetency for any company.
In any of the above scenarios, why would anyone want to get involved?
Hedwige West: “what do I say to her when she says it’s not a pyramid scheme because no one is getting rich on it?”
Say nothing unless you simply can’t resist the curiosity to find out what drives an idiot/asshole to sell (and lie about) pyramid scheme water. Not really worth more than a minute or two of effort though, just for the mild entertainment value of watching them squirm and contort. Better to just laugh at her to her face and tell her to F off indefinitely until she get’s her head screwed back on right.
P.S.: Your “friend” (aka desperado predator) is the antithesis of lovely.
I attended an ASEA Seminar earlier this year, as recommended by a friend. It was highlighted as an evening of refreshments and education, and a cure for what ails you. I wanted to know if the product would help my Crohn’s. During the meeting, there were people providing testimonies of how ASEA cured their medical problems—kidney disease, heart murmurs, and even leukemia. Four of the people on the list claimed ASEA cured either their Crohn’s or Ulcerative Colitis. Wow, I felt there might be a real solution to my Crohn’s after years of Prednisone, harsh diets and one surgery. When I talked to the attendees providing testimonials, I was shocked. Three of them were “self-diagnosed” Crohn’s patients that were not seeing a traditional doctor for their now “gone” ailment and one who was seeing a gastroenterologist. After a long talk with the woman who was seeing a doctor for her ailment, I found out that her problem was most likely Lactose Intolerance as she stopped consuming dairy when she started using ASEA. Her doctor never confirmed she had Crohn’s. What a let-down. But, I figured it was worth a shot and for the last four months I have been drinking the ASEA. Nothing has improved. I’m beginning to think this product is nothing but salt water. My gastroenterologist was very open-minded when I told him I was going to try the product, but did warn me that it probably would not improve my condition. He said there were no unbiased, verifiable clinical findings that the product worked. He was right. I am now convinced ASEA is just high priced electrocuted salt water. All the hype and unsubstantiated promises suckered me into the product. The testimonials are bogus, and there are no real independent studies on the product. I called my ASEA distributor today and cancelled my subscription. He really tried to keep me on board. He pushed that the positive results take time, cell signaling is a complicated process—too complicated for me to understand (and I guess my doctor as well) and it may take up to a year, maybe two for me to see a noticeable change in my condition. No thanks.
PubMed sound familiar to you? I know there are a lot of big, “science” words to read, and you’re stuck in the 4 letter word category, “scam”, but, I promise if you actually read, researched, or weren’t making a buck from slamming medical research… YOU would find something interesting besides sitting in your tidy whiteys and punching out this drivel daily….talk about pot/kettle!
Redox signaling is not a scam, people who have debilitating health concerns and receive relief from their problems are grateful.
Happy Education Day to you!
[Editor’s Note: Don’t assume that Asea water and Redox signalling is the same thing.]
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31071242
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27393004
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28443683
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31148058
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31092832
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31071242
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28793792
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6482166/figure/fig8/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19507067
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12033-009-9189-1
https://iubmb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15216540500091890
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231717300265
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013406002789?via%3Dihub
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013406002662
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0162013406002789
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231717301428
Let’s see if you practice what you preach and NOT delete or alter my comments….
J, I never said that I wouldn’t delete comments. I also do alter comments with notes, as I did with your comment.
Please note that those studies aren’t about ASEA.
Why all that doesn’t matter was explained nearly a couple of years ago. Here you go: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/update-on-asea-protandim-and-doterra/
Happy education day!
J said: “…besides sitting in your tidy whiteys and punching out this drivel…Redox signaling is not a scam, people who have debilitating health concerns and receive relief from their problems are grateful. Happy Education Day to you!”
This is the type of incoherent babble that we’ve come to expect from the parasites who are plugging Asea’s pyramid scheme.
Of course people who find relief from debilitating medical conditions are typically grateful. However, Asea’s BS fraud tonic has never relieved a debilitating medical condition EVER. To believe that it could would require extreme gullibility and a complete lack of basic high school-level chemistry knowledge (i.e., the type of poor saps that Asea scammers target).
And of course redox signaling isn’t a scam; it is a well-studied biochemical process. The scam part is in suggesting that drinking Asea’s salty bleach water affects redox signaling in the body in any kind of meaningful/positive way.
The links J posted are about redox signaling and have nothing to do with Asea. It’s simply a red herring. It would be akin to me claiming that orange juice cures cancer and then erroneously citing as my evidence a hundred random articles about cancer that have nothing to do with orange juice.
It is also worth noting that J linked to the same article by Hancock (2009) 3 times, and articles by Tyurina (2019) and Ullrich (2006) twice each. In other words, 25% of the 16 links J posted were repeats. This is a relatively small issue in the grand scheme of J’s deception but it shows how little thought there is behind the post (basically just taking a dump on the page and calling it a day).
I have a hard time believing that J could be stupid enough to believe that this BS constitutes evidence, so instead of busting his balls for being a moron, I’ll just assume that he’s a really, really bad liar and an immoral a-hole — what else would you call someone who tries to sell salt water as a medical cure-all to desperate little old ladies?
It actually pisses me off enough that I feel duty bound to file reports with the FDA and FTC this week to out these scummy MF-ers for consistently making deceptive and illegal claims about Asea. I encourage others to do likewise.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/report-problem/reporting-unlawful-sales-medical-products-internet
https://www.ftc.gov/faq/consumer-protection/submit-consumer-complaint-ftc
Two things I learned reading all of these comments:
1) The mind-body connection (placebo effect) has real merit.
2) An after reading this PubMed abstract: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16825686, we’re better off consuming spices, fruit, vegetables, berries, unsweetened chocolate, coffee, nuts and some seeds to get real antioxidant benefits.
I think you got #1, but I want to caution you on #2. For the most part those are all great, healthy foods.
The thing that should be important is that we can’t take the information from one study. There’s often a study coming right behind it that shows the opposite. Here’s a smart way to look at studies: https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/what-do-scientific-studies-show/
Lazy man, you are a total idiot, demented fool. “Please show proof”, you say, why, so you can then threaten to inform the authorities?
[Editor’s Response: I feel this is a well reasoned article and doesn’t have a multitude of semantical, grammatical, and logic errors that would come from someone who is an idiot or demented. But you can see my Mensa card here, for strong evidence that I am in the top 2% in intelligence. Clearly the opposite of “idiot.” But thanks for the name calling!
You should never pay for snake oil… that’s a scam that dates back more than a hundred years. Providing proof that something works is the bare minimum that should ask for in exchange for your hard earned dollars. If you disagree, I have a friend Lattimore who has a friend Barry who is happy to sell you bear repellent pills.]
“Salt water”, you say, doesn’t salt water burn your eye? ASEA soothes the eyes, moron.
[Editor’s Response: Why are you putting this stuff in your eyes?!?! I think the salt content is very low and not enough to sting eyes. However, you are free to read the ingredients to verify the salt water content. Reputable scientists seem to back up the salt water claim: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/asea-another-expensive-way-to-buy-water/. So why argue the company’s ingredient list and independent scientific analysis?]
So it’s not salt water. ASEA may not be FDA approved, but it is FDA regulated.
[Editor’s Response: Seems like it is salt water. If it’s not FDA approved for any disease, then you should avoid it. Vitamin C is FDA regulated as well, but it doesn’t mean it helps against disease (except scurvy). Consumers should know the difference between FDA regulated and FDA approved. The former seems to mean that it won’t hurt you. The later seems to mean that it will help you. Consult your doctor for more details.]
ASEA has zero toxicity, native to the body. Only substances that can harm you, require FDA approval.
[Editor’s Response: I think enough water can be toxic, even with the amount of salt in it. That’s something to the scientists to confirm though. In any case, no one is debating that there’s salt and water is native in the body. In my opinion, that’s a good reason not to pay for it. It’s not true that only substances that can harm you require FDA approval. The FDA approval is about presenting evidence that it can actually help you. If you aren’t looking for something that the FDA has approved to help you, you might as well eat toast and ice cream.]
exactly! this is why the comments here are entertainingly funny!! people who hasnt tried it will call it a scam. [Editor’s Response: If I sell my pee as a nutritional supplement, it’s clearly a scam. You don’t have to try it, do you?]
speaking of FDA approval, most people have no idea how these things work and they ASSUME things that make them sound stupid. [Editor’s Response: Yes, that’s the problem with many ASEA supporters in the comments here.]
Fret not, people can say what they want, when something is really that good, the world will know about it eventually and if it is a scam, it will eventually be proven a scam. [Editor’s Response: It’s been 8 years since I wrote the article and ASEA was around before that. The world has decided that it doesn’t care. The burden of proof is that it works, not that it is a scam. If I sell you $70 super-health diet soda, it isn’t ever going to be proven a scam.]
if it’s a scam, then people who have been in it loses out but if it’s not a scam, ROFL.. people who have said awfully stupid things will have this stupidity in them the rest of their lives. there has to be some losers and some winners right? [Editor’s Response: Yep, the people who have been in it have been wasting their money for years.]
Peace-
LAZY MANU INDEED R AN IDIOT SO MANY OTHER THINGS U COULD BE TRYING TO EXPOSE THAT ARE BS ASEA FOR SURE ACTS AS A REMEDY WHEN SPRAYED ON SUNBURN; SO MANY REAL LIFE PHOTOS AND VIDEOS HAVE PROVEN THIS
YOUR ‘COMEBACKS’ ARE STUPID; THEY ARE APPLES TO ORANGES AND AS YER NAME SEZ, LAZY….U MUST ARGUE ALL DAY WITH MORONS FOR U 2 FEEL U INTELLIGENT
WHILE MLM COMPANIES MAY SUCK MANY OF THEIR PRODCUTS DO NOT
VITAMIN C THERAPY IS MOCKED BY MAINSTREAM ‘DOCS’ YET LEVIN HAS PROVEN EXTENSIVELY THAT MEGA VIT C=ESPECIALLY VIA I.V.- CURES MANY AN AILMENT AND SOME SERIOUS ONES SO ANY ARGUEMENTS PUT UP MY MAINSTREAM IS ALSO TOTAL BS
AS WITH EVERYTHING NOT ALL WORKS FOR ALL AND I HAVE SEEN BS HYPE RE ASEA(OH IT CURED MY BALDNESS WHILE THE BALD GUY HAS NO SHAME IN HIS VIDEO AND LIVE PRESENTATION SAYING ASEA CURED HIS BALD HEAD WHILE INDEED HE IS/WAS STILL VERY BALD ) IT IS BECAUSE OF SO MANY MORONS AND IM MORALS SELLING IT AND SO MANY OTHER THINGS IN THIS WORLD ASEA IS VERY EFFECTIVE VS SUNBURN AND FOR SOME PEEPS WORKS WELL AS AN ANTI OXIDENT
LAZY MAN GET A LIFE
Your inability to work a CapsLock key undermines your argument.
I agree with the editor!
I had so many thoughts going through my mind while reading this article. so many many questions.
I’m wondering, how can I trust someone who didn’t personally do some tests and research on the product itself?
[Editor’s Response: If you know about the placebo effect, you know that testing on one person is proven to be useless. That’s why scientists have large-scale, placebo-controlled, clinical trials. Someone could try a piece of toast and say that they thought it made them feel better. It doesn’t validate toast as medicine.]
writing an article that is typical of skeptics. if i’m trying to find out if a company or organisation is a scam, i’m gonna need real data.
[Editor’s Response: Exactly, but the company has the burden of proof to show that its product works. They need to earn that hard-earned dollar in your wallet. I’ve given you a TON of FREE information. The company, to my knowledge, hasn’t done those necessary trials and gotten FDA approval for any medical condition. Don’t you think if they could cure a medical condition they would prove it so that they can start marketing it and selling it.]
not just a bunch of negative words typical skeptics would say. I’m a skeptic and i already think those things and i don’t need another person to tell me the same things again. i want facts please. some solid data. not some long article. come on! tell me something i don’t know! based on just theory is not gonna be good enough.
[Editor’s Response: Seems like I told you something you didn’t know with the information about the placebo effect and burden of proof.]