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Asea Scam?

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About two years ago, when my article exposing MonaVie as a scam got popular, a commenter engaged in the conversation about this new great MLM product, ASEA. Some of people who analyzed MonaVie and determined it's expensive fruit juice did some research and found out that ASEA was expensive salt water. I knew that I had to write about ASEA. One 24, Jusuru and ViSalus as scams.

Writing about ASEA is long overdue. So why am I writing about this now? In a span of about 45 minutes last night, I received to independent emails on ASEA. One came in the form of a comment on my Juice Scam website. The other came from my friend J. Money who created Budgets Are Sexy. The comment on MonaVie Scam was simply saying that it was a great product, it will be a multi-billion dollar company, and it's based on strong science. Yawn... the same claims are made by MonaVie, Xango, Xowii, Zrii, LifeVantage Protandim, Nopalea and any other MLM snake oil scam you shake a stick at.

I'd like to focus more on the Budgets Are Sexy email. He told me that he has friends, a nice couple who are fairly well known in the personal finance blogging space, who are selling this ASEA and they wrote a guest article on how to make money with it in his popular "Side Hustle Series." Can you guess where on the Internet I went the next morning? Yep, I wanted to check out the article.

Selling ASEA Molecules

The article, Side Hustle Series: I Sell Molecules!, really puts the hustle in "side hustle." In fact, the comments got to the point where J. Money took the article down. Anticipating that might happen, I grabbed a screenshot so you can follow along with this.

Here are some notes I made in reading that guest article from Asea distributor Cil Burke:

  • Typical pitch on how this helped family, neighbor, or friend - All the MLM products that I mentioned above have this in common. Almost never do you see any blind experiments to "forestall any chance of a placebo effect, observer bias, or conscious deception." That quote is from Wikipedia and it's one of the many reasons why health MLM health testimonials are pointless.
  • Made of cells not organs - The author wrote: "If you take the time to think about it, we’re made up of cells, not organs." It depends on what level you want to talk about it. You can get down to individual elements if you want. Typically it's more productive to think in terms of organs. You wouldn't want your doctor to attempt open heart surgery on your pancreas.
  • It's worked for me - Ahh the staple of the MLM pitch. Here you get "They’ve changed everything for me and my health." followed by claims of blood pressure, aching joints, younger looking skin, and chronic low back pain. This is a standard list of ailments that I've dozens of times for Protandim and Jusuru. I'm reminded of the FTC's warning about miracle cures that "claim to be a 'cure-all' for several diseases and a host of symptoms." Of course these aren't as serious as the ones the FTC warns about it, the parallels are there.
  • Marketing the ASEA Supplement as a drug - The mention of ASEA reducing her blood pressure is actually an illegal marketing claim according to the FDA. In fact it could get you a nasty letter like this one. Specifically that mentions the problems with supplements claiming that it can reduce blood pressure. Of particular note is how the warning letter calls out the disease claims in testimonials saying specifically: "Your website also contains disease claims in the form of personal testimonials, including: ..." You'll notice that company cleaned up those testimonials right away.
  • The FTC about claims and typical results - The FDA can't be everywhere and monitor blog posts like this one. So it's not likely she'll get a warning letter like the above. However, it is worth noting that the FTC says that as an endorse of the product, she can't make such claims either:

    "As the revised Guides make clear, testimonials reporting specific results achieved by using the product or service generally will be interpreted to mean that the endorser’s experience is what others typically can expect to achieve. That leaves advertisers with two choices: 1) Have adequate proof to back up that claim, or 2) 'Clearly and conspicuously disclose the generally expected performance in the depicted circumstances.'"

  • About the company - This section of the blog post gives a bunch of bullet points that are more or less irrelevant.
    - Claim: "They bought 32 patents in a fire sale." Reality: As a commenter on another blog points out: "I searched for the patents they claimed to own – all of 30 patents or 27, depending on which sales site you read. When I searched patents for the company, Medical Discoveries, Inc, only 7 came up, so I am also not sure where the other claimed 23 (or 20) patents are. Two of these are electrically charging saline (salt water) to clean medical instruments, two are for apparatus, two are for injection into mammals, including humans and one is for injection/IV or ‘other methods’"

    Not only are there a bunch of missing patents that can't be tracked down, but many of them are useless to potential customers of ASEA... they don't have an injectable product and it would be a very expensive way to clean medical equipment, not that most people buy ASEA with the intention of cleaning medical equipment. Not only that, but patents themselves are often ridiculous and unproven and there's no analysis on these at all. Final analysis: Anyone bringing up the patents without a defensible position on each and every one as to how it is relevant to the consumer is just trying to trick you with a marketing gimmick.
    - Built a company with no debt. They are selling salt water for more than a dollar an ounce. I should hope they didn't go into debt doing this.
    - "It’s a brand new (less than three years old) company who single-handedly is going to show us an ethical way to be a word of mouth marketer..." Well we are still waiting for that ethical way, because breaking the FDA and FTC laws was not a good place to start. Also, I've heard about it two years ago and certainly word of mouth marketing hasn't worked for them. Word spread fast... gangnam style fast, right?
    - "... and audaciously plans to be the first single product word of mouther with a billion in sales." You can plan to do anything. MonaVie claimed to do a billion with just MonaVie Original and MonaVie Active (it was original with glucosamine mixed in). Yes, it was technically two products, but why does the number of products matter? And it isn't a "word of mouther" with the athletes they've paid as sponsors (but we'll get to that later).
    - "product fitness professionals and metabolic scientists alike are almost speechless when describing their own studies and results." I'll get to this later as well, because it ties in with the athletes and the comment that I received on MonaVie Scam last night.
    - "This company is enabling people like me to share the word about this amazing bottle of molecules and make real money." No, they are using you. They require that you buy the product (or make it so you have to sell prohibitively too much product to get over that requirement) to be in the business of earning money from the pyramid that you create. It's got the same business model as MonaVie and all the others.

  • "Now go use the Big G to check: 'Re-dox signaling molecules + Your Disease Here.'" - Ahh more implied disease claims. This is exactly what Protandim does by getting people to search oxidative stress and a disease. What's left out is the connection that the product actually helps with oxidative stress... or in this case redox signaling. If Protandim or ASEA actually worked for any disease, the company would do the clinical trials and get it approved by the FDA for helping with that disease. If proven to work, they wouldn't be planning to do a billion in sales, they'd be planning to do 10 billion overnight.

    No MLM company ever proves their product to work. If you can make a billion on placebo, observer bias, and conscious deception, from any old snake oil, there's no need to clinical trials that would actually disprove your product and kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

  • Dismiss this and you'll miss out - The next round of nonsense is: "if you see comments like, 'That’s just salt water, or it’s a scam,' and you dismiss this, then you’re missing out on a once in a lifetime product. Scams don’t have 32 patents. Scams don’t spend big bucks on further research when they’re already solidly profitable." Let's call a spade a spade. The ingredients are water and salt. Did you miss out on the once in a lifetime (always a scummy marketing ploy) products of MonaVie, Protandim, Jusuru, Zrii, etc. Do you have money to buy them all?

    I thought the 32 patents were bought in a fire-sale. Seems like a prudent thing for a scammer to do to convince people that it works.

    As for spending big bucks on research, they are buying marketing for their distributors to sell the product. MonaVie did the same thing and they were "solidly profitable." They know that distributors can't market salt water without something convincing-sounding backing it up. Hence the solution to spend money on "research." I put "research" in quotes because it is essentially marketing.

  • "What Asea Isn't" - The article tries to distance the product from MonaVie, Protandim, ViSalus by saying that it isn't crushed berries, a pill, or a protein shake... yet all three product are better than salt water. Then come the typical MLM disclaimers (with my response):
    - It isn't a "get rich quick program." That's true, over 99% of people lose money in MLM).
    - "It's not a fill your garage with product you won’t ever need scheme or scam." Nope, like MonaVie and all the others the plan is get to people to consume the overpriced product because the FTC cracked down on inventory loading MLM/pyramid schemes long ago.)
    - "It’s not a chemical that strains your body in an effort to burn up calories from your stop at the Cinnabon." Dear lord, I should hope not. That sounds like ephedra that's been banned for some time. Way to compare the product to something bad to make it look better, even if it isn't shown to work (more on that later).
    - "It’s not a room with a white board and circles." It's not? Around 5:00 in this YouTube video explaining the compensation plan the circles come out. You could imagine it being done on a white board. In fact here is one describing the binary compensation plan that ASEA uses.
  • The money made - Cil Burke says that in 6 weeks she made more than $1000 dollars. That's not the typical case. A nurse with a husband who is a doctor is in a better position to sell this product, because there's a level of trust there.

    Cil then goes into saying "I call it sharing a healthier, better life." That's the same pitch MonaVie used for years: You aren't selling product, you are "sharing" it. It's in MonaVie's official website: "Our profound success isn’t just MonaVie’s success, it’s about our independent distributors sharing MonaVie products and solutions for a healthier life while earning financial benefits. This is your chance to share innovative MonaVie products and achieve your own financial well being."

    Cil then says, "The potential income from this bio tech product is unlimited because your market is unlimited." Actually the market is very limited. Not many people are interested in paying a dollar an ounce for salt water. Furthermore, every person that's recruited into the opportunity is not a competing sales person. Read more about MLM and the Reality of Saturation. Finally, there's no such thing as truly "unlimited" income in any business. Money is a finite resource internationally.

    Cil then says, "My personal goal is to replace my day job income in 6 months to a year. My stretch goal is to do it in 4 months." Since Cil seems to be new to MLM, she probably doesn't realize that it all comes crashing down when people leave the scheme, just like what's MonaVie. It's predictable. The people at the bottom leave because they are paying $125 for their molecules and unable to recruit people because the market for gullible, informed people is saturated. So those people quit. Then the people above them quit because they are the new bottom who are paying money without earning a return. It bubbles on up and then the people at the top start to run to other schemes. In fact, some of the top earners in MonaVie left to go to Zeek Rewards only to watch it get shut down by the SEC a couple of months later for being a Ponzi scheme.

  • For More Information - Cil finishes up with the "We are a doctor and nurse team going places because the world deserves to learn how to heal itself, therefore avoiding many high-risk pharmaceuticals." This is the classic Health MLM Mind Game: The FDA Approves Drugs with Side Effects that Kill People combined with the red flag of quackery of "heal itself". How did I know to write those articles months before this article was published? Hint: It's the same thing that all the other MLM scams use.

Okay so maybe I didn't make those notes while I was reading the article. I spent a lot of time to organize them and present them here.

The Science behind ASEA

It turns out that there's really no science behind ASEA. The commenter on MonaVie Scam pointed me to this video on ASEA. Upon watching it, it is quite clear that it is an ASEA informercial.

It turns out that the people in the video were all part of this $194,000 grant sponsored by REOXCYN DISCOVERIES GROUP, INC registered to Verdis L Norton, co-founder of ASEA. Why the deception to hide who is funding the research? I guess it's to make you think it might be independent research.

Before that big grant, ASEA gave grants to Nieman and Shanely directly: see this, this, and this. Update: They changed the crediting of the grants. this image of the Google cache shows the grants are credited to Nieman, Shanely, and others. Now these are credited to Nieman alone I'm not sure what they are trying cover up with this change of grants that were done months and months ago. In any case, with these new grants, ASEA has given Nieman $701,294 to produce research for ASEA.

Also, Nieman has a guest speaker gig for Asea, which is typically paid for.

Interestingly they only tested 20 people, which is a scientifically insignificant amount. And of course they did a one-week sample size which isn’t significant either. It wasn't published in any peer review journal.

However, you don't have to take my word for all this. As any ASEA distributor will point out, I'm not a doctor. They'll claim that I don't have the credentials to explain that the science is insignificant. With that in mind, I present you to an unbiased, fully qualified doctor, Dr. Harriet Hall who explains why ASEA is another expensive way to buy water.

Of course Harriet Hall not only debunks the product for lack of science, but also the the study done by Nieman that was highlighted in the ASEA infomercial.

Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.

The Business of ASEA

For the most part the Business of ASEA is The Business of MLM (or What Gives Freddy Krueger Nightmares). It's a tremendously terrible "opportunity."

ASEA's business model was evaluated by Brett Hansen who has significant industry experience (16 years) and the binary compensation plan and shows that only 5% could possibly earn money because of the internal consumption model. Distributors and others may claim to make outside sales, but they often do not since it is a lot of work to sell product one at a time.

The analysis he gives shows, "The mathematics of their particular compensation structure indicate that 97% plus will never be able to even cover the basic cost of their autoship."

Does ASEA Work?

While the talk of many, many testimonials may seem convincing, such testimonials are typical with any MLM product. This shows that these testimonials are not unique to the ASEA product. Instead, there's a wide variety of psychological phenomena with MLM health products that give people the perception that the product works. For more details see:
No Your MLM Health Product Does Not "Work."

Asea Fined in Italy for "Unfair Business Practices"

A Google Translate of an Italy consumer protection website shows that Asea Italy was fined 150,000 Euros for "for unfair business practices that have affected tens of thousands of consumers in the area of multilevel illicit sales of beverages... The position of Asea Italy and Organ Golden Europe is further aggravated by the fact that the two companies have curative properties attributed to their products that are not adequately demonstrated and certified." (Again, that's the Google Translate version, but I think you get the picture.)

Asea Turns to Black Hat SEO?

I had a good friend ask me if I started buying comments on the web to promote my articles. I've never done any such thing and will never do any such thing. He asked me this because he noticed this on his blog. Someone is leaving spam comments to promote this article.

I did a little research and it seems the same IP address (from Greece) was caught spamming others on the same day 12/13/14.

What I think we are seeing here is that Asea (or some supporter of Asea) is trying to paint a picture of me as a spammer in order to get this article of useful information taking down from search engines. They don't want potential clients and distributors reading this because it exposes their fraud. There's really no other explanation that I can see. I guess it is just another way that Asea is trying to scam people. I'd tell them to stay classy, but it is far past that now.

Summing it up

At this time, I'm going to skip writing a conclusion for this article. I've written enough of them for the similar MLM health products and they are more or less interchangeable. Plus, if you've read this far, the conclusion for any intelligent person is quite clear.

Last updated on October 13, 2015.

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436 Responses to “Asea Scam?”

  1. Rich says:

    Rich said, “Then can you explain why ASEA would want to certify that there are redox signaling molecules in every bottle they manufacture.”

    Lying Lazy Man Said: Are they doing this with the FDA? I don’t think so… is that fair? Has ASEA gotten FDA approval?

    They don’t need FDA Approval it is a native to your body supplement with zero toxicity. No vitamin, mineral, juice or drug can make that claim. Drug companies needs that approval because they have to show all the side effects including death.

    Lying Lazy Man Said: Rich said, “specializing in large molecule needs”

    That piece of info is out of context that is what BioAgilytix mission statement is regarding supplying their services to drug companies.
    You never answered my question. Why did ASEA use BioAgilytix to certify that they have trillions of redox signal molecules in every bottle they produce??? If they are scamming why would they pay to have it done?

    Lying Lazy Man Said: Whoa, people have “large molecule needs” Is it fair that the FDA should put a requirement stating our molecular needs?

    I think you should read Pub Med and understand the science of redox signaling molecules before you take what I say and twist it to meet your agenda. (Selling ad space)

    Rich said, “We knew it worked because we know 1000’s of people receiving the benefits of the molecules.”

    I do know a lot of people on the product because there are over 200,000 taking it every day and their testimonials is enough for me. Google Asea testimonials. I might be biased because it helped both my wife and daughter. Your uneducated answer would be that it was a placebo what you need to do is study the science before you prevent other people from finding a solution to better heath.

    Why would I say it is not a placebo? My wife and daughter had been on many different drugs prescribed by doctors over the years and one my daughter was taking had to get off it because she would have died. All drugs were FDA approved now both my wife and daughter are off those drugs since taking ASEA and it is going on 5 years. Could it be you are getting paid by the drug companies??

    Just answer my question about Bioagilytix..

  2. Vogel says:

    Rich said: “Then can you explain why ASEA would want to certify that there are redox signaling molecules in every bottle they manufacture.”

    Why don’t you explain it instead? What exactly are the chemical names of the alleged “redox signaling molecules” in the bottle?

    Rich said: “Every bottle of ASEA has BioAgilytix logo on the bottle certifying that there are trillions of molecules in each bottle.”

    Again, what are the chemical names of these alleged molecules? H20 is a molecule. It’s indisputable that there would be a lot of water molecules in every bottle of water. So what?

    Rich said: “What is your answer to why would ASEA pay to certify if this was a scam?”

    Um, so that their know-nothing distributors can go around bragging that the product is certified to contain “molecules” (and look like complete idiots in the process).

    Rich said: “What would happen to your body if you had no redox molecules in your body?”

    That’s like asking what would happen if our bodies didn’t contain protein or DNA. It’s a stupid irrelevant question because such an occurrence never happens.

  3. Rich says:

    Rich said: “Then can you explain why ASEA would want to certify that there are redox signaling molecules in every bottle they manufacture.”
    Why don’t you explain it instead? What exactly are the chemical names of the alleged “redox signaling molecules” in the bottle?
    Rich said: “Every bottle of ASEA has BioAgilytix logo on the bottle certifying that there are trillions of molecules in each bottle.”
    Again, what are the chemical names of these alleged molecules? H20 is a molecule. It’s indisputable that there would be a lot of water molecules in every bottle of water. So what?

    The medium that maintains the redox signaling molecules is sodium chloride in pristine purified water similar to hospital grade IV solution. This is why it is a native to your body supplement. At the very core of the way our bodies work is energy production from the REDOX biochemical reactions converting food and oxygen into energy, carbon dioxide, and water. This is called cellular respiration. Large molecules are broken down into smaller ones, releasing energy in the process. The exchange of energy involves the transfer of electrons from one molecule to another. This “combustion” of sorts, called the Krebs cycle, creates cellular energy (ATP) and also various molecular side reactions. There is a collection of very tiny molecules created in these side reactions, which vary in size from 2-4 atoms, and are called REDOX signaling molecules (RSM). They are generated in some cells a million times a second, and also used to carry out their work equally as fast. It is no wonder that these molecules are so pivotal in our biology.

    Rich said: “What is your answer to why would ASEA pay to certify if this was a scam?”
    Um, so that their know-nothing distributors can go around bragging that the product is certified to contain “molecules” (and look like complete idiots in the process).

    You are being very negative about something you know nothing about. You believe in FDA approved drugs but so many are toxic and detrimental to health read the warning labels. BioAgilytix certification company does the same for drug companies you love.
    I think ASEA did the certification to dispel skeptics and prove that there were real redox molecules. Why are drug companies using Bioagilytics for their sales reps to promote drugs to local doctors or certify that each batch of drug meets specification?

    Rich said: “What would happen to your body if you had no redox molecules in your body?”That’s like asking what would happen if our bodies didn’t contain protein or DNA. It’s a stupid irrelevant question because such an occurrence never happens.

    Wrong again the amount of these molecules goes down with age and when you hit 70 you are down to 10% remaining. When it hits 0 you are dead. Wouldn’t it be great if we could supplement these molecules to reduce oxidative stress the results of aging?

    I am finished responding to your blog but hope this conversation can be used by people trying to find the answer for a medical challenge. Please reach out to someone that has used ASEA there are way more positive people out there then what is written about on these blogs

  4. Lazy Man says:

    Rich, I’m not sure why you are quoting yourself here. I’ll let Vogel respond, but you should hope he is merciful in his rebuttal.

    If ASEA (the company) believes any of their products are an answer to a medical challenge, they can get the FDA to certify it for that purpose, right?

    I’m a very positive person. Protecting people’s wallets is a good thing, right? Thanks.

  5. Vogel says:

    Rich, you failed in epic fashion on point #1, which was my request for you to name the alleged redox signaling molecules to which you were alluding. You came back mentioning only sodium chloride (table salt) and water — which is the gist of why you are being ridiculed for selling salt water and pretending that it acts as an antioxidant — and then you went on some pointless tangent about the Krebs cycle.

    Rich said: “You are being very negative about something you know nothing about. You believe in FDA approved drugs but so many are toxic and detrimental to health read the warning labels. BioAgilytix certification company does the same for drug companies you love.”

    Of course I have a negative view of ASEA. It’s utterly ridiculous and an insult to one’s intelligence. I have never expressed “belief” in FDA-approved drugs per se. I do however believe in abiding by US laws that require companies to provide substantiation of the efficacy and safety of their products to the FDA as a condition for approval for medical use, which is something that ASEA will never do because they are purveyors of worthless pyramid scheme salt water to idiots.

    I merely asked you to specify what the alleged “redox” molecules are that this company certified to be present in ASEA’s salt water. You can’t even cope with that simple challenge, so obviously the certification is worthless, aside for giving the airheads who sell it something to yap about.

    Rich said: “I think ASEA did the certification to dispel skeptics and prove that there were real redox molecules.”

    If that’s the case then they are idiots and failed miserably. This meaningless certification you keep blathering about is more likely to further convince people that ASEA is fraudulent than to dispel even a grain of skepticism. You still can’t even name one signaling molecule that’s present in ASEA’s salt water.

    Rich said: “Wrong again the amount of these molecules goes down with age and when you hit 70 you are down to 10% remaining. When it hits 0 you are dead. Wouldn’t it be great if we could supplement these molecules to reduce oxidative stress the results of aging?”

    I am not wrong. All I said was that your initial question was idiotic; i.e., asking “what would happen to your body if you had no redox molecules in your body?” It was an especially stupid question because ASEA does not and cannot conceivably affect oxidative stress in the body or aging, nor does it contain or restore any of the endogenous and exogenous antioxidants that function in the human body.

    Rich said: “I am finished responding to your blog but hope this conversation can be used by people trying to find the answer for a medical challenge.”

    It’s not my blog, and if you’re hoping that people here elect to use your pyramid-scheme idiot-water for medical challenges, then you are a toxic parasite and your absence here will be a blessing to all.

  6. Derrinred says:

    I would ask Rich to be specific in his claims and defense of ASEA. Also, I’d like to know what kind of dog does he have in this fight to be so tenacious in disputing what seems to be factual debunking. Now, as I am not a biologist, nor a pharmacist. But my daughter is, and I will be asking her about these redox signalers. If Rich has irrefutible evidence of the factual, laboratory and FDA approved product, I would love to see it. At $150+ for a case of four bottles of what is essentially salt water, it’d better live up to its claims. Otherwise, this is nothing more than an excercise in flabber jabber rap to me. Which of course once again begs the question….where does Rich sit, so that I know where he stands. Which dog does he have in this fight? Is he an owner or investor trying to keep this blog from sullying the company’s reputation? Is he a man who has bought into a fantasy and desperately wants to believe in its curative affects so that in the end, he dosen’t feel foolish and misled? Or is he simply a man that just loves to argue and debate, bot knowing when to surrender to logic?

  7. Geoff says:

    Rich said, “The medium that maintains the redox signaling molecules is sodium chloride in pristine purified water similar to hospital grade IV solution…”

    I could copy and paste the whole thing, but the rest of what you said was just copied and pasted biology information that you got from a website.

    I did some research on this topic, because the only ingredient you mentioned was sodium chloride. That immediately jumped out as a red flag, because that is just the scientific way of saying salt. At this point, all you have suggested is that ASEA is glorified salt water, and according to this website, http://jcs.biologists.org/content/125/4/801 (one of the few that wasn’t ASEA propaganda) the process happens naturally in the body. If you are going to stress sciences that are out of your depth, and rave about salt water having miraculous powers, you aren’t going to get far in this forum.

    Rich said, “You are being very negative about something you know nothing about. You believe in FDA approved drugs but so many are toxic and detrimental to health read the warning labels.”

    It would seem that you are simply copying and pasting stuff that is meant to look technical to the amateur, and therefore ignorant to the subject as well. FDA approved drugs can be dangerous…nobody is going to argue with that, but they have active ingredients that are proprietary (not salt), and have strict guidelines for their usage.

    Rich said, “BioAgilytix certification company does the same for drug companies you love. I think ASEA did the certification to dispel skeptics and prove that there were real redox molecules. Why are drug companies using Bioagilytics for their sales reps to promote drugs to local doctors or certify that each batch of drug meets specification?”

    After taking a lot of time to investigate the website, since everything else comes up PRO ASEA on the web searches, I found two interesting things.

    1. When you search their website for anything involving ASEA it comes up with 0 results…that seems a bit strange considering how many websites are bragging about the two being connected.

    2. BioAgilytix (That is the proper spelling…at least you got it right 50% of the time) has nothing on their website about certifications, and instead are proud of the 300 drugs they have brought to the FDA for approval…seems strange to be bragging about a company’s certification, when they hold the FDA’s opinion higher than their own.

    Rich said, “I am finished responding to your blog but hope this conversation can be used by people trying to find the answer for a medical challenge. Please reach out to someone that has used ASEA there are way more positive people out there then what is written about on these blogs.

    Thank goodness, because your comments are copied and pasted ASEA propaganda garbage that you can’t even understand. By the way I just found another article about the whole fancy salt water thing here, https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/asea-another-expensive-way-to-buy-water/. It could be time to lay to rest the scientific nonsense…

  8. Vogel says:

    Derrinred asked: “Where does Rich sit, so that I know where he stands. Which dog does he have in this fight? Is he an owner or investor trying to keep this blog from sullying the company’s reputation? Is he a man who has bought into a fantasy and desperately wants to believe in its curative affects so that in the end, he dosen’t feel foolish and misled? Or is he simply a man that just loves to argue and debate, bot knowing when to surrender to logic?”

    Those are all reasonable explanations, but you’ll never get a reliable answer to the question. He could be a distributor, company executive, investor, or paid troll. Rich obviously has a financial interest, which he may or may not own up to. But more importantly, the blanket answer is always the same – idiot or a-hole. Idiot for falling for this moronic scam in the first place, and doubly so for being impervious to the airtight logical criticisms that have been presented and yet repeatedly ignored; or a-hole – knowing full well that the entire ASEA story is BS from front to back and yet foisting this snakeoil on people anyway. Beyond that, there is no mystery lurking here; just a parade of mind-boggling stupidity and reckless self-serving irresponsibility.

  9. Rich says:

    My skin in this game is based on the fact that my daughter and wife are no longer taking life threatening drugs that are FDA approved because of ASEA. They are no longer plagued with depilating symptoms caused by a well-known auto-immune disease now going on 5 years.

    I am just an average person that wants to help as many people as I can and seeing negative uneducated information published in this blog is my motivation.
    Aspirin was never tested and approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) because it was grandfathered as an existing drug in 1938. Why don’t you call aspirin a scam or a placebo?

    How much would you charge me to promote ASEA on your blog because I am very passionate about the product?

  10. Rich says:

    Action speaks louder than your words. I hope you have a good doctor and the drug companies that supports this site pays you well.

  11. Vogel says:

    Rich said: “My skin in this game is based on the fact that my daughter and wife are no longer taking life threatening drugs that are FDA approved because of ASEA. They are no longer plagued with depilating symptoms caused by a well-known auto-immune disease now going on 5 years. I am just an average person that wants to help as many people as I can and seeing negative uneducated information published in this blog is my motivation.”

    Um, so salt water cures autoimmune diseases eh?

    Like I said – a liar, troll, and self-serving irresponsible a-hole. Doesn’t even have the guts to admit that he has a financial interest at stake. I think it’s high time to do the world a favor and start sending complaints to the FDA about the illegal marketing of ASEA.
    http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm

  12. Lazy Man says:

    Rich,

    I’m not paid by any drug companies. Don’t know why you would spread false information like that.

  13. Geoff says:

    Rich said, “My skin in this game is based on the fact that my daughter and wife are no longer taking life threatening drugs that are FDA approved because of ASEA. They are no longer plagued with depilating symptoms caused by a well-known auto-immune disease now going on 5 years.”

    Rich, why not take them to the ocean and have some fun for free then? The beaches are free to enter, and if salt water is their cure…I think it could be a fun and much cheaper treatment.

    Rich said, “I am just an average person that wants to help as many people as I can and seeing negative uneducated information published in this blog is my motivation. Aspirin was never tested and approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) because it was grandfathered as an existing drug in 1938. Why don’t you call aspirin a scam or a placebo?”

    Where do you get this crap from? As you can clearly see here on the FDA’s site there are many aspirins that have been approved. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/index.cfm?fuseaction=Search.SearchAction&SearchTerm=aspirin&SearchType=BasicSearch

    Comparing acetaminophen and aspirin to salt as successful active ingredients is a total joke. This fallacious comparison is right there with the former.

    Rich said, “Action speaks louder than your words. I hope you have a good doctor and the drug companies that supports this site pays you well.”

    Rich you couldn’t be more right…you are verifiably manipulated by ASEA as you either make up crap, or copy and paste made up crap. You didn’t even leave when you said you would leave…as stated here, “I am finished responding to your blog but hope this conversation can be used by people trying to find the answer for a medical challenge. Please reach out to someone that has used ASEA there are way more positive people out there then what is written about on these blogs”. Time to be a man of your word Rich, and start taking action!

  14. Magnus Berg says:

    As you all know, Asea is not only salt water. So you can’t compare Asea with the sea. But all the life in the sea, depends on the same molecules that is in Asea. Without the molecules, there will not be any life in the sea or anywhere else.
    But all you skeptics are like ostriches. – Rest your head in the sand. That’s where you belong.

  15. Lazy Man says:

    Magnus, by your logic, I could bottle salt water and sell it at an expensive price claiming that without what’s in my bottle there wouldn’t life anywhere? Would you like to buy some bottled air from me?

  16. Derrinred says:

    First let me say that Rich has very strongly held beliefs. He has been and remains loyal to doing what he believes is right for him and his family. Trading insults with a man deeply imbeded in what he believes, is kinda pointless, don’tcha think?
    Rich? Sodium Chloride is nothing more than table salt. Sea salt is also sodium chloride, ergo…table salt. My guess is that you can make your own solution just as effective as $150 a case. Your family’s health is more important to you than anything in the whole world. But don’t you think your wife and daughter not suffering from some auto-immune disease or affliction after treating them with this magical elixer, just a little bit suspect? I have an auto-immune disease called Hashimoto Disease. There is nothing short of replacement therapy that keeps me alive. Everyone I know with these types of disease would not survive with only the solution you promote. There’s so much more I can say , but I’d just be repeating myself. I refer you the White Rabbit sung by Grace slick and Jefferson Airplane. It seems to be appropo here. I don’t think you’re being honest.

  17. Magnus Berg says:

    Lazy Man, Keep Resting your head in the sand (or on your pillow, if you want to)
    We will never agree. If you’ve done your research properly, you know that the molecules are found in ASEA, so open your eyes.

  18. Lazy Man says:

    Well, my research lead me to this thread Asea: Another Expensive Way to Buy Water. I haven’t found Dr. Harriet Hall to be wrong about anything.

    I need for two things to happen:

    1. They will need to get FDA (or similar government) certification that these special molecules are indeed in ASEA
    2. That they will get the FDA approval that ASEA water is helpful in treating some medical condition.

    Until either of that happens, I stand by the good Dr. Hall’s outstanding, unbiased, work in studying ASEA.

  19. Magnus Berg says:

    “1. They will need to get FDA (or similar government) certification that these special molecules are indeed in ASEA”
    Who do you think will pay for this?
    Not the goverment because it is sold via independent distributors. So that will never happen.
    The goverment will not earn a cent from this so they will not pay either. I have several customers on autoship and they have been using Asea for a long time now. I wonder why?
    And for the other product Asea sell, the Renu 28 gel, I have a blog I DON’T promote. I get at least one sale per week here in Norway.(searchable on google) Meaning people are satisfied with the product. Why? Because the product work.

  20. Lazy Man says:

    Oh now we see that Magnus is finally admitting that he sells the product. Sorry, but your biased, unsubstantiated claims don’t hold weight with me.

  21. Lazy Man says:

    And of course ASEA would pay for it, because they created the product. This is pretty standard operating procedure. They could also get grants from legitimate science organizations. Finally, if they really can show that the proof of concept works, they can raise funds from private investors or go public and use the funds from an IPO.

    Are you trying to tell me that ASEA management isn’t smart enough to figure this stuff out?

  22. Magnus Berg says:

    He he It is not a secret that I’m a distributor for Asea :)
    I do not know the procedures how it’s done in the United States in terms of approval.

    I assume Asea is familiar with how it works.
    I’m only a distributor.
    I heard that FDA does not approve dietary supplements. Mostly only drugs are approved by FDA, and that they regulate foods ETC.
    So no need for Asea to try to get it approved.

  23. Lazy Man says:

    There is no NEED for the ASEA to get approval for sale as a supplement in the United States. This simply means that I can sell my bottled salt water. It doesn’t mean that my bottled salt water DOES anything to help people’s health

    In order to make a claim that a product help with a medical condition, ASEA NEEDS to get FDA approval. There are supplements that have this approval as this list shows. You probably know about calcium and vitamin D for bone health for example.

    So please don’t confuse people about FDA approval for selling a product, vs. FDA approval that a product helps with a medical condition.

    The useful step is the later, obviously.

    And if you don’t like the way the United States does it, show me another country that has approved ASEA for helping with a medical condition.

  24. Magnus Berg says:

    You know we, as distributors, are not allowed to claim that Asea or any alternative products help with any medical conditions. This is the rule for most countries.

  25. Lazy Man says:

    You could claim that a calcium and vitamin D supplement helps with osteoporosis because the FDA has been given enough evidence to support those claims.

    You, as distributors of Asea, are not allowed to make claims about medical conditions, because Asea hasn’t taken the steps to get the FDA approval for such claims.

    You seem to be talking in circles. Because Asea hasn’t proved it to FDA, you can’t make claims. You should be making demands to Asea management to prove it to the FDA like calcium and vitamin D rather than wasting your time here.

  26. Derrinred says:

    This is for Magnus,

    You remind me of the footwear I take with me to the rivers and lakes here in Colorado; flip-flops. You flip flop on your position regularly. If you’re going to defend a position, shouldn’t you choose an honest defensible position. You say that those in an arguable position against you are nothing more than people with their heads in the sand, but there’s nothing logical in that point of view except insults and alienation. I offer that point of view to your opposition as well. But their point is well taken. You and Rich have offered no proof that your product is superior and beneficial. In point of FACT, you have quoted other people’s claims with bias and without foundation. I’m reminded of the movie Outlaw Josie Wales when the Elixir Salesman was asked what was in the bottle. He stated that there were several ingrediants and danced a bit before settling on the statement of him just being their salesman. He was told by the potential customer to drink it himself. He said, “Well, what do you expect from a non-believer?” That is essentially what you are saying to the world. You’re just distributors, like him, looking to get dollars out of unsuspecting customers. By the way, exlixirs sold in those days were on average, 80 proof alcohol. That cured pretty much anything for a few hours anyway. (}:
    Since Sodium Chloride has been established as nothing more than table salt in pristine water (whatever that means); I know, I know, pristine water is water so pure that it can be injected into your bloodstream. IV’s are also sodium based, in other words, saltwater.
    But no one here has mentioned what happens to a person’s blood pressure when too much sodium is aquired by the human body and its very dangerous affects! Hypertension, water weight gain from retention, etc. As I am not a healthcare professional, scientist, nutrionist or researcher, I may only speak as a lay person. Based on your conversations alone, you both are lay persons, as well. Neither of the three of us can or may speak as experts. The difference between us is that I don’t make the attempt. Quoting company verbage, referring to studies commissioned by ASEA, is both reckless and dangerous for two reasons. First, companies often shop their data to companies and individuals who will, with the right amount of cash and incentives, spin and tweak data to reach conclusions the company wants. Lawyers do this all the time in Civil and Criminal cases! Both sides bring in their own experts to debunk other so-called experts. Second, the potentially harmful effects of an untested formula. When I say untested formula, I mean a formula that has not undergone multiple double and triple blind studies, peer reviews and readily available publicized documents detailing in great detail, the formula, the precise steps that created the formula, the research, the studies, the clinical trials and the peer review. There are many supplements, thousands and thousands, that do not undergo these steps. The FDA states there is no feasible way to verify the truth to all the claims. So they chose in their infinite idiotic beaureacratic minds to just create a set of guidelines and penalties for violating them. The only way they actually find out there was a violation is when many people begin to complain. Supplement companies know this. This is why the salesman in Josie Wales and those in real life become so successful. Just imply their curative affects without any detail. Dance around the issues and follow the company script. Don’t reveal anything even remotely close to the truth. MLM’s are famous for doing just that. Talk for hours and hours promoting their whatever, without any detail or factual foundation. Like the Wizard of Oz, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. They appeal to the emotional buyers and stay away like the plague from logical thinking consumers. They know there are more impulsive consumers in this world than the consumers who use logic. Impulse buyers far, far out number, those that choose to look behind the mirror. Plus if they properly spin their claims, there’s an outstanding possibility of repeat business and word-of-mouth advertising. This is a Win-Win for them if they sell enough product to gullible consumers. Then they can make all sorts of claims and add a little scientific data and research to cement the product’s legitimacy, and they will come and they will buy! Magnus and Rich, you both a just tiny cogs in their very large machinery. That is, unless one or both of you are high up in the foodchain of ASEA. Which if that is the case, you’re attempts at pleading ignorance to knowing the facts as ASEA sees them, is an insult to my intelligence and those who have dog in this fight.
    Your naysayers are attempting to protect ignorant consumers. This hurts your bottomline, so it’s doubly worth it to attack, insult and misdirect facts in your case. I look forward to your responses. I’m willing to wager that your responses will not be logical or unemotional. Since I lack the genes to be affected by those, your potential insults and your position of feeling authoritative are wasted on me. Logic and truth are the only things that gets my attention. Good luck to you both on that.

  27. Magnus Berg says:

    This is for Derrinred…..Bla Bla Bla!!! If you say so!!!I did not bother to read your post.

  28. Ryan Sawicki says:

    I can tell you without a doubt this man who wrote this is absolutely wrong. I was a sceptical as they came. There are SOOOO many scientific studies done on this its unbelievable. People that had chronic conditions, myself included, don’t have them anymore. We’re talking no cure conditions. I won’t get into specifics because of the FDA. I have many friends that take Asea and their doctors said they’d be dead months or years ago. Just by saying there is no science to back this product up, I can tell you that he did 0 homework as there are many scientific studies. In short, I don’t no about other products and MLM’s but this guy is dead wrong.

  29. Vogel says:

    Ryan Sawicki said: “I can tell you without a doubt this man who wrote this is absolutely wrong.”

    If that were the case, why wouldn’t you try to point at least one example?

    Ryan Sawicki said: “I was a sceptical (sic) as they came.”

    I doubt that. You can’t even spell skeptical.

    Ryan Sawicki said: “There are SOOOO many scientific studies done on this its (sic) unbelievable.”

    Unbelievable? Really? You’re fond of hyperbole aren’t you? How many is “SOOOO many” and why didn’t you provide even one example?

    Ryan Sawicki said: “People that had chronic conditions, myself included, don’t have them anymore. We’re talking no cure conditions. I won’t get into specifics because of the FDA.”

    Ah, now we get to the heart of the matter. You are a distributor of this BS salt water snakeoil and are violating U.S. law by promoting it as a disease cure, while simultaneously acknowledging that you’re trying to dodge the FDA. That makes you an a-hole of the lowest order.
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryansawicki

    Ryan Sawicki said: “I have many friends that take Asea and their doctors said they’d be dead months or years ago.”

    So you’re saying that these alleged doctors expected their patients to die from drinking Asea? Interesting!

    Ryan Sawicki said: “I can tell you that he did 0 homework as there are many scientific studies.”

    And so? Where is this invisible homework and the alleged studies you brag of?

    Ryan Sawicki said: “In short, I don’t no (sic) about other products and MLM’s but this guy is dead wrong.”

    Wrong about what exactly? I know quite a bit about other MLMs and MLM products and you seem to be just as ridiculous as the worst of them.

    BTW, is this you? If not, it must suck to have the same name as a convicted child pornographer.
    http://www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2014/08/12/glenside_news_globe_times_chronicle/news/doc53e8f65a1c690468125622.txt

  30. Micah Joseph says:

    Asea is going to change the way the world thinks. When the Redox signalling gets turned on globally we can control humans and have a better society as we cull the dying and ugly. Our tije is now for world domination. When we control every human’s redox signalling we just turn the signal to drone and we have the world ……..

  31. Lazy Man says:

    Well I’ve published my article more than 3 years ago and I think people had mentioned it to me around 2 years before that.

    In 5 years, it doesn’t seem like the world cares about Asea.

    I’m not sure I’m looking forward to your vision of controlling humans for world domination.

  32. Ryan Sawicki says:

    So, typing on my phone makes me a fool? Yes. There were typos. I violated what policies exactly? Please tell me which disease or diseases I said this cures specifically? So I didn’t violate any laws but I wonder about slander? Implying that I’m a sex offender? You obviously have my LinkedIn page. You know that’s not me. Seems like you just like to bitch! Slander me again and well see who’s violating laws. I wouldn’t waste my time with this guy on any issue.

  33. Vogel says:

    Ryan Sawicki said: “So, typing on my phone makes me a fool?”

    No, saying stupid things makes you a tool, since you asked.

    Ryan Sawicki said: “Yes. There were typos. I violated what policies exactly?”

    The typos were excusable; it was the vapidity that was problematic.

    Ryan Sawicki said: “Please tell me which disease or diseases I said this cures specifically?”

    You weren’t specific. You made a general claim that the product cure incurable chronic diseases. Don’t try to beat around the bush. Such claims are illegal, aside from being just plain stupid.

    Ryan Sawicki said: “So I didn’t violate any laws but I wonder about slander? Implying that I’m a sex offender? You obviously have my LinkedIn page. You know that’s not me. Seems like you just like to bitch! Slander me again and well see who’s violating laws.”

    Um, yes you did. The law prohibits you making claims that Asea cures chronic diseases. Aside from being dishonest, how can you be so slow as to not understand this? Suggesting that what I wrote was slander makes you seem even dumber than at first blush. Well done!

    Don’t think that your veiled legal threat is going to accomplish anything other than to make people even more curious as to whether you’re a sex offender, and more likely to report you to the FDA for illegal marketing of snakeoil.
    http://www.montgomerynews.com/articles/2014/08/12/glenside_news_globe_times_chronicle/news/doc53e8f65a1c690468125622.txt#sthash.JuYxsxGg.dpuf
    http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm

  34. Geoff says:

    Ryan said, “So, typing on my phone makes me a fool? Yes. There were typos.”

    No, but you should stick to using smaller words if you don’t know how to spell. It will help to make you look better.

    Ryan said, “I violated what policies exactly? Please tell me which disease or diseases I said this cures specifically?”

    Ryan, you are treading on thin water here…you specifically said you had a chronic condition that was cured, but then didn’t go into details because of the FDA…that sounds to me like you know it’s a placebo effect at best, and you are doing your best to make it sound significant. You clearly understand that you are not allowed to claim these products cure ailments, and yet you do your best to suggest it.

    Ryan said, “So I didn’t violate any laws but I wonder about slander? Implying that I’m a sex offender? You obviously have my LinkedIn page.”

    First of all, that would not be slander, but rather libel. (Only pointing this out because you made a big deal about spelling, and I find vocabulary to be much more important…) Secondly, you are now taking the opposite stance of implying meaning. First you decide to be perfectly vague with your chronic conditions cure comment, and get mad when it gets linked to presumption, and now you are trying to do the same to Vogel when he simply asked if that was you. Pick one side or the other Ryan, but don’t try to manipulate the situations because it makes you look weak.

    Ryan said, “Slander me again and well see who’s violating laws. I wouldn’t waste my time with this guy on any issue.”

    Technically, you are probably the closest to violating anything. Also, you probably don’t want to have a debate with Vogel, because he has you outclassed in every point on the subject.

  35. Chris says:

    So since I have digestive problems, I started consulting with a Nutritional Counselor who wants me to buy more and more of this ASEA product, and he is also a distributor. Any comments?

  36. Lazy Man says:

    Perhaps get unbiased advice from a professional who isn’t trying to make money selling you product?

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