About two years ago, when my article exposing MonaVie as a scam got popular, a commenter engaged in the conversation about this new great MLM product, ASEA. Some of people who analyzed MonaVie and determined it’s expensive fruit juice did some research and found out that ASEA was expensive salt water. I knew that I had to write about ASEA. One 24, Jusuru and ViSalus as scams.
Writing about ASEA is long overdue. So why am I writing about this now? In a span of about 45 minutes last night, I received to independent emails on ASEA. One came in the form of a comment on my Juice Scam website. The other came from my friend J. Money who created Budgets Are Sexy. The comment on MonaVie Scam was simply saying that it was a great product, it will be a multi-billion dollar company, and it’s based on strong science. Yawn… the same claims are made by MonaVie, Xango, Xowii, Zrii, Nopalea and any other MLM snake oil scam you shake a stick at. In fact, Truth in Advertising notes:
“Despite declarations by the Direct Selling Association (DSA) that it is committed to business ethics, a TINA.org investigation has found that 97 percent of DSA member companies selling nutritional supplements have distributors marketing their products with illegal health claims. Not only are distributors making dubious claims but TINA.org also documented DSA member companies making health claims that violate the law…
TINA.org’s investigation makes clear that there is a systemic problem within the MLM industry when it comes to health claims. Thousands of distributors are marketing MLM products to treat or cure diseases, with many relying on wildly inappropriate health testimonials to market their wares and the business opportunity.”
I’d like to focus more on the Budgets Are Sexy email. He told me that he has friends, a nice couple who are fairly well known in the personal finance blogging space, who are selling this ASEA and they wrote a guest article on how to make money with it in his popular “Side Hustle Series.” Can you guess where on the Internet I went the next morning? Yep, I wanted to check out the article.
Selling ASEA Molecules
The article, Side Hustle Series: I Sell Molecules!, really puts the hustle in “side hustle.” In fact, the comments got to the point where J. Money took the article down. Anticipating that might happen, I grabbed a screenshot so you can follow along with this.
Here are some notes I made in reading that guest article from Asea distributor Cil Burke:
- Typical pitch on how this helped family, neighbor, or friend – All the MLM products that I mentioned above have this in common. Almost never do you see any blind experiments to “forestall any chance of a placebo effect, observer bias, or conscious deception.” That quote is from Wikipedia and it’s one of the many reasons why health MLM health testimonials are pointless.
- Made of cells not organs – The author wrote: “If you take the time to think about it, we’re made up of cells, not organs.” It depends on what level you want to talk about it. You can get down to individual elements if you want. Typically it’s more productive to think in terms of organs. You wouldn’t want your doctor to attempt open heart surgery on your pancreas.
- It’s worked for me – Ahh the staple of the MLM pitch. Here you get “They’ve changed everything for me and my health.” followed by claims of blood pressure, aching joints, younger looking skin, and chronic low back pain. This is a standard list of ailments that I’ve dozens of times for the dozens of products I’ve covered, just like Truth in Advertising’s findings noted above. I’m reminded of the FTC’s warning about miracle cures that “claim to be a ‘cure-all’ for several diseases and a host of symptoms.” Of course these aren’t as serious as the ones the FTC warns about it, the parallels are there.
- Marketing the ASEA Supplement as a drug – The mention of ASEA reducing her blood pressure is actually an illegal marketing claim according to the FDA. In fact it could get you a nasty letter like this one. Specifically that mentions the problems with supplements claiming that it can reduce blood pressure. Of particular note is how the warning letter calls out the disease claims in testimonials saying specifically: “Your website also contains disease claims in the form of personal testimonials, including: …” You’ll notice that company cleaned up those testimonials right away.
- The FTC about claims and typical results – The FDA can’t be everywhere and monitor blog posts like this one. So it’s not likely she’ll get a warning letter like the above. However, it is worth noting that the FTC says that as an endorse of the product, she can’t make such claims either:
“As the revised Guides make clear, testimonials reporting specific results achieved by using the product or service generally will be interpreted to mean that the endorser’s experience is what others typically can expect to achieve. That leaves advertisers with two choices: 1) Have adequate proof to back up that claim, or 2) ‘Clearly and conspicuously disclose the generally expected performance in the depicted circumstances.'”
- About the company – This section of the blog post gives a bunch of bullet points that are more or less irrelevant.
– Claim: “They bought 32 patents in a fire sale.” Reality: As a commenter on another blog points out: “I searched for the patents they claimed to own – all of 30 patents or 27, depending on which sales site you read. When I searched patents for the company, Medical Discoveries, Inc, only 7 came up, so I am also not sure where the other claimed 23 (or 20) patents are. Two of these are electrically charging saline (salt water) to clean medical instruments, two are for apparatus, two are for injection into mammals, including humans and one is for injection/IV or ‘other methods’”Not only are there a bunch of missing patents that can’t be tracked down, but many of them are useless to potential customers of ASEA… they don’t have an injectable product and it would be a very expensive way to clean medical equipment, not that most people buy ASEA with the intention of cleaning medical equipment. Not only that, but patents themselves are often ridiculous and unproven and there’s no analysis on these at all. Final analysis: Anyone bringing up the patents without a defensible position on each and every one as to how it is relevant to the consumer is just trying to trick you with a marketing gimmick.
– Built a company with no debt. They are selling salt water for more than a dollar an ounce. I should hope they didn’t go into debt doing this.
– “It’s a brand new (less than three years old) company who single-handedly is going to show us an ethical way to be a word of mouth marketer…” Well we are still waiting for that ethical way, because breaking the FDA and FTC laws was not a good place to start. Also, I’ve heard about it two years ago and certainly word of mouth marketing hasn’t worked for them. Word spread fast… gangnam style fast, right?
– “… and audaciously plans to be the first single product word of mouther with a billion in sales.” You can plan to do anything. MonaVie claimed to do a billion with just MonaVie Original and MonaVie Active (it was original with glucosamine mixed in). Yes, it was technically two products, but why does the number of products matter? And it isn’t a “word of mouther” with the athletes they’ve paid as sponsors (but we’ll get to that later).
– “product fitness professionals and metabolic scientists alike are almost speechless when describing their own studies and results.” I’ll get to this later as well, because it ties in with the athletes and the comment that I received on MonaVie Scam last night.
– “This company is enabling people like me to share the word about this amazing bottle of molecules and make real money.” No, they are using you. They require that you buy the product (or make it so you have to sell prohibitively too much product to get over that requirement) to be in the business of earning money from the pyramid that you create. It’s got the same business model as MonaVie and all the others. - “Now go use the Big G to check: ‘Re-dox signaling molecules + Your Disease Here.'” – Ahh more implied disease claims. What’s left out is the connection that the product actually helps with oxidative stress… or in this case redox signaling. If ASEA actually worked for any disease, the company would do the clinical trials and get it approved by the FDA for helping with that disease. If proven to work, they wouldn’t be planning to do a billion in sales, they’d be planning to do 10 billion overnight.
No MLM company ever proves their product to work. If you can make a billion on placebo, observer bias, and conscious deception, from any old snake oil, there’s no need to clinical trials that would actually disprove your product and kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
- Dismiss this and you’ll miss out – The next round of nonsense is: “if you see comments like, ‘That’s just salt water, or it’s a scam,’ and you dismiss this, then you’re missing out on a once in a lifetime product. Scams don’t have 32 patents. Scams don’t spend big bucks on further research when they’re already solidly profitable.” Let’s call a spade a spade. The ingredients are water and salt. Did you miss out on the once in a lifetime (always a scummy marketing ploy) products of MonaVie, Jusuru, Zrii, etc. Do you have money to buy them all?
I thought the 32 patents were bought in a fire-sale. Seems like a prudent thing for a scammer to do to convince people that it works.
As for spending big bucks on research, they are buying marketing for their distributors to sell the product. MonaVie did the same thing and they were “solidly profitable.” They know that distributors can’t market salt water without something convincing-sounding backing it up. Hence the solution to spend money on “research.” I put “research” in quotes because it is essentially marketing.
- “What Asea Isn’t” – The article tries to distance the product from MonaVie, ViSalus, and other MLM products by saying that it isn’t crushed berries, a pill, or a protein shake… yet all three product are better than salt water. Then come the typical MLM disclaimers (with my response):
– It isn’t a “get rich quick program.” That’s true, over 99% of people lose money in MLM).
– “It’s not a fill your garage with product you won’t ever need scheme or scam.” Nope, like MonaVie and all the others the plan is get to people to consume the overpriced product because the FTC cracked down on inventory loading MLM/pyramid schemes long ago.)
– “It’s not a chemical that strains your body in an effort to burn up calories from your stop at the Cinnabon.” Dear lord, I should hope not. That sounds like ephedra that’s been banned for some time. Way to compare the product to something bad to make it look better, even if it isn’t shown to work (more on that later).
– “It’s not a room with a white board and circles.” It’s not? Around 5:00 in this YouTube video explaining the compensation plan the circles come out. You could imagine it being done on a white board. In fact here is one describing the binary compensation plan that ASEA uses. - The money made – Cil Burke says that in 6 weeks she made more than $1000 dollars. That’s not the typical case. A nurse with a husband who is a doctor is in a better position to sell this product, because there’s a level of trust there.
Cil then goes into saying “I call it sharing a healthier, better life.” That’s the same pitch MonaVie used for years: You aren’t selling product, you are “sharing” it. It’s in MonaVie’s official website: “Our profound success isn’t just MonaVie’s success, it’s about our independent distributors sharing MonaVie products and solutions for a healthier life while earning financial benefits. This is your chance to share innovative MonaVie products and achieve your own financial well being.”
Cil then says, “The potential income from this bio tech product is unlimited because your market is unlimited.” Actually the market is very limited. Not many people are interested in paying a dollar an ounce for salt water. Furthermore, every person that’s recruited into the opportunity is not a competing sales person. Read more about MLM and the Reality of Saturation. Finally, there’s no such thing as truly “unlimited” income in any business. Money is a finite resource internationally.
Cil then says, “My personal goal is to replace my day job income in 6 months to a year. My stretch goal is to do it in 4 months.” Since Cil seems to be new to MLM, she probably doesn’t realize that it all comes crashing down when people leave the scheme, just like what’s MonaVie. It’s predictable. The people at the bottom leave because they are paying $125 for their molecules and unable to recruit people because the market for gullible, informed people is saturated. So those people quit. Then the people above them quit because they are the new bottom who are paying money without earning a return. It bubbles on up and then the people at the top start to run to other schemes. In fact, some of the top earners in MonaVie left to go to Zeek Rewards only to watch it get shut down by the SEC a couple of months later for being a Ponzi scheme.
- For More Information – Cil finishes up with the “We are a doctor and nurse team going places because the world deserves to learn how to heal itself, therefore avoiding many high-risk pharmaceuticals.” This is the classic Health MLM Mind Game: The FDA Approves Drugs with Side Effects that Kill People combined with the red flag of quackery of “heal itself”. How did I know to write those articles months before this article was published? Hint: It’s the same thing that all the other MLM scams use.
Okay so maybe I didn’t make those notes while I was reading the article. I spent a lot of time to organize them and present them here.
The Science behind ASEA
It turns out that there’s really no science behind ASEA. The commenter on MonaVie Scam pointed me to this video on ASEA. Upon watching it, it is quite clear that it is an ASEA informercial.
It turns out that the people in the video were all part of this $194,000 grant sponsored by REOXCYN DISCOVERIES GROUP, INC registered to Verdis L Norton, co-founder of ASEA. Why the deception to hide who is funding the research? I guess it’s to make you think it might be independent research.
Before that big grant, ASEA gave grants to Nieman and Shanely directly: see this, this, and this. Update: They changed the crediting of the grants. this image of the Google cache shows the grants are credited to Nieman, Shanely, and others. Now these are credited to Nieman alone I’m not sure what they are trying cover up with this change of grants that were done months and months ago. In any case, with these new grants, ASEA has given Nieman $701,294 to produce research for ASEA.
Also, Nieman has a guest speaker gig for Asea, which is typically paid for.
Interestingly they only tested 20 people, which is a scientifically insignificant amount. And of course they did a one-week sample size which isn’t significant either. It wasn’t published in any peer review journal.
However, you don’t have to take my word for all this. As any ASEA distributor will point out, I’m not a doctor. They’ll claim that I don’t have the credentials to explain that the science is insignificant. With that in mind, I present you to an unbiased, fully qualified doctor, Dr. Harriet Hall who explains why ASEA is another expensive way to buy water.
Of course Harriet Hall not only debunks the product for lack of science, but also the the study done by Nieman that was highlighted in the ASEA infomercial.
Finally, the New York Times cautions against reading anything into these studies. It is a highly important article for all consumers of any health products to read and understand.
The Business of ASEA
For the most part the Business of ASEA is The Business of MLM (or What Gives Freddy Krueger Nightmares). It’s a tremendously terrible “opportunity.”
ASEA’s business model was evaluated by Brett Hansen who has significant industry experience (16 years) and the binary compensation plan and shows that only 5% could possibly earn money because of the internal consumption model. Distributors and others may claim to make outside sales, but they often do not since it is a lot of work to sell product one at a time.
The analysis he gives shows, “The mathematics of their particular compensation structure indicate that 97% plus will never be able to even cover the basic cost of their autoship.”
Does ASEA Work?
While the talk of many, many testimonials may seem convincing, such testimonials are typical with any MLM product. This shows that these testimonials are not unique to the ASEA product. Instead, there’s a wide variety of psychological phenomena with MLM health products that give people the perception that the product works. For more details see:
No Your MLM Health Product Does Not “Work.”
Asea Fined in Italy for “Unfair Business Practices”
A Google Translate of an Italy consumer protection website shows that Asea Italy was fined 150,000 Euros for “for unfair business practices that have affected tens of thousands of consumers in the area of multilevel illicit sales of beverages… The position of Asea Italy and Organ Golden Europe is further aggravated by the fact that the two companies have curative properties attributed to their products that are not adequately demonstrated and certified.” (Again, that’s the Google Translate version, but I think you get the picture.)
Asea Turns to Black Hat SEO?
I had a good friend ask me if I started buying comments on the web to promote my articles. I’ve never done any such thing and will never do any such thing. He asked me this because he noticed this on his blog. Someone is leaving spam comments to promote this article.
I did a little research and it seems the same IP address (from Greece) was caught spamming others on the same day 12/13/14.
What I think we are seeing here is that Asea (or some supporter of Asea) is trying to paint a picture of me as a spammer in order to get this article of useful information taking down from search engines. They don’t want potential clients and distributors reading this because it exposes their fraud. There’s really no other explanation that I can see. I guess it is just another way that Asea is trying to scam people. I’d tell them to stay classy, but it is far past that now.
Summing it up
At this time, I’m going to skip writing a conclusion for this article. I’ve written enough of them for the similar MLM health products and they are more or less interchangeable. Plus, if you’ve read this far, the conclusion for any intelligent person is quite clear.
Lazy
I “love” some of your followers who “support” you by bashing Asea without having any idea what Asea is. Quote ” not like ASEA which I believe is pure nonsense. doterra has..” end quote….
What this writer believe has no merit. He has no idea what Asea is.
and then you slap him in his face.
I have sent you some results of using Asea with people that I personally put on the products. As Katy emailed me last Sun. while I was in Theater : “GOT DRAMATIC CHANGES” , and yes she got. Start walking (having MS for 20 years) after 3 months on Asea.
Have a great day
GZ
Giora,
This is an open forum where anyone can comment. I think the person who you say is one of my “followers” is just trying to market Doterra. I don’t think he/she cares about ASEA at all.
And yes, someone who doesn’t bring anything to current topic of discussion and instead promotes their own scam product deserves a figurative, verbal “slap in the face” (note that I don’t condone violence, but I’m just going with your words.
OMG, I just realized who the A. J. Giora was talking about. Angelina Jolie. And she didn’t cut her breath, but had a mastectomy.
How did I piece this together from, “Your science support A. J to cut her breath as prevention”?
I got a spam email from ASEA distributor Michael Powell illegally pitching ASEA as a cure for medical conditions: “You have received this email from us because we are distressed that women are so afraid of getting breast cancer that they are having totally unnecessary operations. People need to know about Redox Molecules and what they do in the body. We have attached two good testimonies about Asea and how supplementing your own naturally produced Redox Molecules can change your life if you are experiencing a serious medical condition.”
One distributor talking nonsense and another acting illegally… these are the best distributors that ASEA has to offer?
Well, come on Lazy Man. Don’t forget about the “dr. who curries cancer”. If nothing else, it sounds delicious!
And if “Asea helped to Bailey Katy Mr. pico” well then, that’s good enough for me.
Where do I sign?
If asea were to study how it cures cancer they cross the line and the FDA would get incovled, because then there people would start to make medical claims. This would open them up to problems. Meaning, does everything need to be FDA approved to be valid?
ASEA can run any studies they want to without involving the FDA. They could run them in Germany if they wished and the FDA couldn’t touch them. However, ASEA should work within the FDA guidelines to run studies so that they can make the claims so that they’ll be able to make the money.
You are right that this would open up ASEA to problems, because it would be clear that the product doesn’t work and they would lose their sham of a business.
Many companies deal with the FDA to get approval for their products. Do you think that Pfizer, knowing that Viagra worked, said, “We don’t want to deal with the FDA and the pesky billions of dollars it would make us, so we’ll skip the process”?
I just got sucked into this Asea thing. I bought a case, hoping it would treat my skin condition that my doctors have been unable to diagnose.
Here are the patents listed on the bottle:
US 5,507,932 – Apparatus for electrolyzing fluids
US 5,674,537 – Electrolyzed saline solution containing concentrated amounts of ozone and chlorine species
US 6,007,686 – System for elctrolyzing fluids for use as antimicrobial agents; Embodiments of the invention are particularly suited to sterilizing dental drill handpieces without damage to the handpieces.
US 6,117,285 – System for carrying out sterilization of equipment
I think Lazy Man highlighted a lot of holes in the Asea story. I think so many of us are desperate for a miracle that we’re willing to try anything. When doctor after doctor tells you they can’t help you, of course you’re going to feel the only help you can receive must be in some way a miracle. I know I am so desperate for a solution that I’m blindly willing to give anything a shot. One of the reasons the Alternative Medicine industry is able to prosper is because their pricing is what most people can afford, unlike the sky high pricing of hospitals and health care, which makes one think the alternative medicine was created with “me” in mind.
I am glad that Lazy Man has provided plenty of facts to combat the myths of Asea and other products. I think he makes a valid point asking, “If Asea does all these great things, why haven’t they gotten FDA approval?”
With that said, I will continue the Asea regime because I do want to be healthy again and I do hope Asea can help me (I paid for it after all), but I can do so with Lazy Man’s skeptism on one shoulder so I don’t get carried away spending money on something that may not do what I’m spending money on it to do. If it does work, I will continue to support the product. If it doesn’t work, then I’m off to the next snake charmer ;)
When you are done with that Charlie, you should try LifeVantage Protandim, MonaVie, Jusuru, Zrii, Xowii, Xango, Nopalea, and bunch of others.
There are really few limits on what to try. As for having already bought ASEA, you can always return it or sell it on Ebay.
I’d be very careful about how much attack you give to asea, your attack on Protandim and others, from what I can see likely puts you at risk for slander. Your bias and slant against network marketing is slanted to the point where your willing to say anything to promote your website and puts you at great legal risk, can you afford to defend it?
I’m not sure where you see any risk of slander for me exposing the Protandim scam. There’s no legal risk when you write the truth and statements made in a good faith and reasonable belief that they were true. As I have said numerous times in numerous articles, if there is anything that anyone finds untrue, please leave a comment explaining why and if it holds water and I’ll happily correct my article. I only want consumers to get the best accurate information. In the years that I’ve written these articles, no one has come forward to correct information in an article.
I never set out to “attack” any company as I make clear in all the articles I write. I also only report on what was already in the public domain and give my opinion. Nothing that I say is to promote my website, it is to help consumers, just like every other article I write.
There’s no bias or slant against MLM, I’m just against fraud. If I see it, I’m going to point it out. Keep in mind this happens everywhere in traditional media:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1987/06/01/83883/index.htm
http://www.inc.com/magazine/19980601/941.html
http://harpers.org/blog/2012/07/how-mary-kay-sells-women-on-having-it-all/
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2011-02-07-multilevelmarketing03_CV_N.htm
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0811/050.html
Money Magazine, Inc Magazine, Harpers, USA Today, Forbes… the list goes on and that’s not even getting into Bill Ackman’s work on exposing Herbalife.
I appreciate your concern. However, don’t worry about me, I’ll be fine. If any of these companies are looking to sue a consumer advocate like me, they better make sure they have an airtight case or they’ll be looking at PR nightmare and a Streisand Effect that could kill their business.
Arnie, you sniveling punk, there’s a world of difference between being biased against something and being justifiably critical of something, as in Lazyman’s case. I think it would be safe to say that you take a dim view of rape and murder but only an idiot (e.g., someone like you) would say that you are “biased against” rape and murder.
It’s no different with fraud and snakeoil.
You came here armed with nothing other than a cowardly toothless legal threat, and to that I say go F yourself. I’d be the first to volunteer to testify and know enough to bury the company 6 feet under, so play on clown, play on. Make my F-ing day!
Asea is nothing, there is no benefit from drinking salt water. The real benefit is from Human Growth Hormone, the true anti-aging solution. I’m a distributor for Limitless, and they make Thrive, which creates HGH, and this company a multi-billion dollar company much better than salt water.. I don’t know why people don’t see that.
Herbos – see: http://behindmlm.com/companies/limitless-worldwide-basic-research-tries-mlm/
Found your web page insightful and couldn’t stop laughing my ass off. Especially, with Giora’s interaction. Oh, I’m not educated like you two. I am thankful that this product hasn’t went through FDA or I probably would never had a chance to experience it in my lifetime. Our US Government has made it so difficult to obtain products that may have cured so many people. All I know is I am new to ASEA and I feel so much better and I love my dog enough I am sharing it. I joined to feel better and sharing with friends.
Oh need to look up grapes being bad for dogs just fed my Roxi grapes!!!
The US Government doesn’t make it difficult to obtain products that cured people. Show me something that’s been proven to be a cure in a dozen civilized countries that the US doesn’t allow?
As for the grapes see: http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/toxicology/f/grape_raisin.htm. Love your dog enough to not risk his life by giving him something unproven in dogs like ASEA.
Warning to ASEA customers. I spoke to my doctor and he said that drinking salt water on a regular basis will likely cause health problems. I asked why and he looked at it, and said it was basically drinking free radicals. If you keep doing that, it could be harmful. I think the FDA really needs to evaluation this company because I’m very concerned. I stopped my orders until I’m sure its safe.
Lazy Man,
I appreciate your response; especially about grapes and raisins. I misspoke when I said cure. Americans are the backbone of medical and pharmaceutical companies. And, what I mean by this statement is we pay a lot of money for the new technology while other countries get it for cheap. We have to see a doctor, get tests, prescription which all cost money. Many countries like Mexico have these medicines over the counter. My mom just had surgery and is spraying her stiches and healing very well. I’ve been spraying my Shitzu’s eyes and the running, stinking muck is going away. Tried to get a Vet to give me a prescription; needed another visit and still would not give me an antibiotic. At my age and my neighbor’s we are willing to try anything that can help us. Francine, you should be careful with your dietary intake of salt.
Lazy:
I used ASEA for about 3 months and noticed several health and over-all improvements in my daily life. However, I decided to stop and study a bit about the company and it’s claims. I have not used it for about 9 months now and will only start again AFTER there are some more serious studies done. I just spent 2 hours reading this blog and find you to be a very intelligent and fair-minded person. I also know a lot about MLM’s and traditional business’s, having participated in both extensively over the past 30 years. In my opinion, the only thing I see that you are missing when it comes to truth (related to this subject) is the fact that greed and corruption in the Pharma and medical establishments (both public & private) e.g.; AMA, Big Drug Co’s etc.. is rampant and very destructive to the general public. (America) I am not saying there is nothing good about them, just that they are manipulating far more outcomes in the real world than you evidently believe they are. (often to the detriment of the public) You seem far too intelligent not to know that some really bad unethical behavior is (and has been) happening in the medical and Pharma business’s. (all for the sake of making more money) Having said that, I really appreciate people like you who are trying their best to promote logic & critical thinking. Your blog and your efforts are much appreciated. I will share my experiences and knowledge of MLM’s in my next posts.
Thanks for the comment, Shadrach.
I’d like to point out a few important things regarding it though:
1. I don’t think I make any claims than pharmaceutical companies are without fraud at some level.
2. The discussion of ASEA is independent of whether pharmaceutical companies have fraud or not. If pharmaceutical companies commit fraud, it doesn’t mean ASEA does or doesn’t. If pharmaceutical companies don’t commit fraud, it doesn’t mean ASEA does or doesn’t. There’s no relation between ASEA and pharmaceutical companies. Thus it really doesn’t make any sense to bring it up here. There may be fraud in the automotive industry too. If you are going to bring up unrelated, unspecified, hypothetical acts of corruption, we can go all day and never advance the topic of ASEA.
3. It’s worth noting that the supplement companies are logically just as bad with the unethical behavior and corruption as pharmaceutical companies.
4. All corruption aside, pharmaceutical companies have to show their product works through a series of clinical trials. A very high burden of proof is required. For example, Viagra has been tested time and again and proven time and again to do exactly what it claims it does. (In a sample of over 2500 people, over 95% have found it to be effective.) Yet time after time, studies looking at supplements find that in trials of hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of people, they don’t work.
That’s my fair, balanced, logical analysis. When ASEA, or other supplements, do similar amounts of work (2500 people is just a start for pharmaceuticals) to prove their product to be effective, I’ll start to give them their due.
Great and thorough article. Only nit pick is that there are a number of typos or missing words here and there, so could do with another proof read. Thanks for providing this info, though!
Glad you found the information helpful. Given the amount of content of I produce, including responding to people in the comments, there’s really no time for proofreading. Also, internet advertising is pretty poor and doesn’t pay enough for an editor.
Hey Lazyman, just thought I’d follow up my last comment now that I’ve read a bunch of comments. Wow! I don’t know how you have the patience to deal with people who just don’t get it. They continually bring up irrelevancies, make mistakes in logic, not to mention often are unable to even type out a coherent sentence. I’ve developed a headache just reading through this thread for an hour or so. I would have given up after just a few back and forths out of losing all hope that somehow these people would start to suddenly develop that “open mind.” That being said, I certainly don’t think all things that some people label as “alternative medicine” as being useless wastes of money, but they also are not scientifically proven. Sometimes getting those studies done can be challenging for a variety of reasons, but they can be done, and we’ve seen some previously “alternative” recommendations graduate into more mainstream ones. The point is not to throw out the scientific method because they “system” or the big bad beurocratic agencies are imperfect in their approach, but rather to work within it to make some of the processes better but not dismiss it as useless, because, well, it’s not! It’s the best thing we have, proven my the extended lifespans and quality of life of millions, or I guess billions. Sure there are some things that are missed, red herrings and recommendations that have to be corrected as we learn nuances that disprove earlier best guesses. But that doesn’t mean you dismiss everything because of SOME problems.
In addition to the obvious shills for this company and others that practice MLM, there is a contingent of folks who simply have adopted the narrative that conventional (Western) science and medicine is bad and evil, and all alternative science is great, or at least most of it is a lot better than the conventional stuff. People telling them otherwise are being “close-minded” and robots who blindly obey the authorities of large agencies like the AMA and AHA. Throw in a little tea-party and this becomes almost about Obama and how he’s trying to harm them because he controls these agencies who are out to take away their fredom of taking the stuff they want vs. what the gov’t wants. This is most apparent with the vaccination “debate” but obviously it’s a theme that can spread far and wide. Anyway, I’m not telling you anything you don’t know, just wanted to chime as someone who actually thinks it’s admirable for you to take all this time to have this dialog/debate. Just posting your articles are great, but please don’t waste too much of your time on the comments since it’s obvious (to me anyway) that the tendency that I’ve read about is in full bloom here – ie that the more you debate a position, the more you end up digging in your heals and refusing to see the other person’s side, regardless of whatever evidence they present. Anyway, again, thank you!
Thanks for the kind words, Levi.
If you thought this was interesting you should read the the 6000+ comments on my MonaVie and the 3000+ on my Protandim articles.
For the most part these people are brainwashed and in need of professional help (this gives a little guide).
Most of what you said about alternative medicine is what I’ve battled in my Youngevity article. Proponents there have openly made the logically ridiculous false supposition that because the US healthcare is bad, everyone should just take their health into their own hands and treat everything with Youngevity vitamins.
I’m always willing to see the other person’s side, when they present a logical argument that is relevant to the topic article. If the other side wants to try to hijack the discussion and present some kind of evidence for alternative medicine, I’m certainly only going to give that person enough rope to hang him or herself. Typically their argument begins and ends with an anecdotal account that can easily be attributed to the placebo effect.
Lazy Man – I couldn’t roll my eyes hard enough when my husband brought home ASEA but I said nothing because I know he’s in chronic pain and hey, if thinks it helps… But then I began using it externally, specifically on my feet. I was homeless for a few years in my teens and developed that disgusting toe fungus and then developed runner’s feet over the years. For thirty years I tried all the topical creams and even the prescriptions for the fungus that could have compromised my liver, but nothing worked. I sprayed ASEA on my feet (toes) with the ‘what do I have to lose’ mentality and to my surprise, my toe nails are almost back to normal. The deep gashes in my concrete-like heels are finally gone. I then began using ASEA on my face and I’ve noticed a difference in my skin. I can’t comment on its internal use, but what I’ve seen can’t be a placebo effect – it’s right there to see. And it’s amazing. This may not seem like a big achievement to most, and I don’t want to make this a “feely” comment, but this physical reminder of being homeless is finally gone and it moves me to tears sometimes when I see my feet. – just my experience.
My first response is, this link from scientists website.
If you seriously want to rub this expensive water on your skin on a “what do I have to lose” mentality, you fail to understand personal finance on a fundamental level.
If Asea water works observably as you state, then surely they’ve conducted the clinical studies to prove that it works as a topical from a skin condition of any kind. That includes clinical studies with the FDA for the condition, right? If not, it shows to me that they don’t have confidence in their product.
Sounds like there’s a hole in your story.
I think Lazy man, despite his exemplary efforts to unveil corrupt enterprises in the health field, at least in the ASEA case is either associated with the corrupt establishment represented by the Big Pharma maffia or, despite his scientific sophistication and intelligence, just too naive to realize mentioned parts` true agenda with its often faked and biased studies .
look at the vioxx case, now also amlodipine, as shown by a new very well done study, and the SSRI meds and many more and not to forget the vaccination scandals, now of course even more sad, the military-industrial complex` insane profit hunger as expressed in the same faking and biasing in studies of the enormous health risks with use of mobile phones and WIFI, if you are a true exposer with humane overtones, better to put your efforts on that I think ! .
If you want to put so much efforts on degrading ASEA, being right or not, why does he not just take some bottles to an independent lab and test it to see if it contains redox signaling molecules or not ?
By the way , the following new book by a highly respected scientist, should undoubtedly throw more light on the subject of significance of redox signaling molecules, which , as I understand it, ASEA is the only one to have found a patented technique to preserve outside the body. I can only hope that this scientist isn´t bought by ASEA…?
http://www.biorepmedia.com/books/redox-life
If ASEA only present lies and so are frauding the audience I am also really interested ( and I hope many with me) to see proof of that, so please ,Mr.Lazy Man, to begin, present a lab.test of ASEA before degrading a potential product that have the potential to change so many lives for the better.
Rolf , MD
I think Rolf could have spent a minute or two and realized that I have no association with any pharmaceutical company. It’s funny, because that’s the first thing anyone points out the snake oil scams as we’ve seen MonaVie and Protandim. It’s a basic red herring to avoid discussing the product itself.
I shouldn’t even have to get into how an alleged “MD” (from your signature) is using the term Big Pharma. I tried to find some of your history and see which state you earned your degree in to make sure that you are a real doctor, because doctors graduating from top schools like Harvard wouldn’t be against proven medicine.
If you look at the Vioxx case, the studies there show that the product did work… it just had a negative side effect. That’s a much better result than anything we have ASEA which doesn’t have studies of any signficant size showing that it works… and nothing that shows whether it has negative side effects. It’s almost like eating a wild mushroom in the forest that you know nothing about. It simply isn’t smart.
This whole Vioxx thing and vaccination thing is another red herring… just trying to deflect conversation away from Asea itself. I could make the claim that everyone should buy LazyMandium based on Vioxx and vaccinations, but clearly that makes no sense at all. They simply aren’t related… and any reputable “MD” wouldn’t make such a basic intellectual error.
Another thing that a reputable “MD” wouldn’t do is suggest that one spend time on something else. After all, why are you wasting your time here with this comment when you could be spending time on those things, right? I created the topic and if you want to discuss it, this is the place. If you want to discuss health risks of mobile phones and wifi, please go find those websites and have at it.
Rolf said, “If you want to put so much efforts on degrading ASEA, being right or not, why does he not just take some bottles to an independent lab and test it to see if it contains redox signaling molecules or not?”
There are at least two problems here:
1) It’s not my job to prove what’s in a bottle of ASEA. If I claim to have a talking unicorn in my garage and you claim it is BS (rightfully so), I don’t ask why you don’t fly to my garage and prove it at your expense.
2) Proving what’s in a bottle is essentially useless. It doesn’t prove that the molecules are absorbed well into the body. It doesn’t prove that there’s enough to have a measurable benefit. It doesn’t quantify what the benefit, if any, would be in any way.
Your Redox Life book example has similar problems. As mentioned above, redox signalling itself isn’t on trial in this article, ASEA is. Does the book focus on clinical trials showing the benefits of ASEA? It doesn’t look like it. It seems like you are trying to prove that because redox signalling is real that ASEA is helpful. This is a poor logical conclusion. As for the patents, the article showed how ridiculous the patents are. The patent office doesn’t scientifically test products, and any reputable “MD” would know this.
I look forward to ASEA putting together, through independent research, more clinical trials encompassing more people than we saw for Vioxx to show that it is A) effective and B) safe. If they truly believe in their product, they’ll have no problem with this. I’ve been waiting… I won’t hold my breath.
Please, all intelligent and engaged writers here ( lazy Man and G. Zeevy especially), if ASEA cliams that they have stabilized redox signaling molecules in bottles, they must be able to proof that and to do that mustn´t mean they have to unveil any secret technique for procuring that.
For Godness sake, how can ASEA otherwise claim they have these substances in their “water” ? Or are they just speculating about something that cannot be tested or ( strange then) does such testing implicate unveiling of their patented technique???
Rolf Stålhandske said, “Please, all intelligent and engaged writers here ( lazy Man and G. Zeevy especially), if ASEA cliams that they have stabilized redox signaling molecules in bottles, they must be able to proof that and to do that…”
Really? Why must that be so? Furthermore, what’s the proven benefit of ASEA (which is not equivalent to redox signalling molecules) to humans?
Here’s a reputable doctor’s independent, unbiased analysis.
quote :The clinical trials, and most importantly, the systematic reviews of those trials show whether the product works. To measure the results of clinical trials, you just large-scale placebo-controlled groups, and simply ask them how they feel. If significantly more people taking the product say that it helped them over the people who taking the placebo, it shows that it works. There’s no need for any equipment to inspect the product at all. – See more at: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/asea-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1227216
End of quote.
Of course ASEA is aware of that and so avoiding this, as they are clever enough to know ( from so many obvious negative cases of physicians and others coming forward with something revolutionary in the health field and if you do not believe me you are either assoiated with this maffia or straight out naive,period!)about the enormous risks for them personally and the company and its product if they can show its superior effectivness.
Do you really mean you are not aware of that (if you are honest?)?
Rolf said,
You mean the enormous risk of them having more money than they know what do with if it is effective? When Pfizer showed that Viagra was effective against erectile dysfunction, the “risk” was that the company made billions, which was presumably spread to employees and shareholders of the company.
It sounds like you are trying to suggest that there’s some sort of conspiracy that they’d be harmed by proven a product works. There have been a lot of products proven effective, has this ever meant any harm to those inventors?
As you can understand from my last comment ( not published here yet as far as I can see) I am not per se defending ASEA, but want to find out more of truth on the subject and for that purpose I find your efforts worth all respect !
As a (swedish) psychiatrist I am not first hand expert on this subject, but are free to have my critical opinions and as far as I know the pharmaceutical has industry in certain cases acted fraudulently, it might be even more than we realize and to my mind they ARE unwisely and irrationally impeding other actors in the health field , when they see these as threats to their profit interests. You can call it conspiracy theory or not, I find it more in directions of sad conspiracy facts!
So you really are not more aware of the corruption in the “Big Pharma” industry ( and I do not care about your insinuations about my use of such words and do not feel the slightest insulted either, I am sure the audience here is wise enough to be interested in content, not formalities and they for sure know what is meant with Big Pharma)
Astonishing then. Have a look at what a Swedish MD and scientist, former Pfizer exec Peter Rost, has found out and written about in his books. You can find him on google ( as well as me, even if my MD title, which I see as American term for certificated physician, not necessarily a “dissertated” one ,is not from Harvard. Just put Dr. before my name !). Dr. Rost left his work on Pfizer after having detected serious fraudulent actions in the development and presentation of various medicines. Whistleblowers like him are really helping to clean up, may it be in the pharmaceutical industry or in other fields, even if it goes slowly.
When I first wrote here I could only see a couple of comments and if I had waited a little I would have changed my comments accordingly as then all comments could be seen! So I need to apologize for some of my contents due to that !
I totally agree with some of your heavy weighing criticism of ASEA, for instance that they haven´t done better scientifically acceptable studies (clinical trials with double-blind technique, control groups etc. etc.) of its effects, that neglect I cannot understand. For sure they have the capacity to do such studies. And your remark about how to know how and what of its content enters the cells are indeed justified, but there seems to exist many strong testimonials of the health effects of ASEA and such are not negligible to my mind.
I published every comment that I saw from you Rolf, so maybe I missed one where you said you weren’t defending ASEA. (All comments are moderated to eliminate spam, so it may take me some time to approve and respond.) With the multitude of poor arguments (red herrings like anti-FDA comments) you made common to most MLM-defenders, it certainly seemed like that.
Rolf said, “As a (swedish) psychiatrist I am not first hand expert on this subject, but are free to have my critical opinions and as far as I know the pharmaceutical has industry in certain cases acted fraudulently…” I have an article about buying vitamins that you should read. It makes a lot of points, but one of the big ones is that individual cases of fraud and corruption are not necessarily indicative of the whole or a reason to avoid the industry.
In the US, much of our financial system is often run by Wall Street, a street with many large financial institutions. (I’m oversimplifying because I don’t have infinite space to bring someone from Sweeden up to speed on the US financial system.) I’d wager that if you asked 100 people if Wall Street is corrupt, you’d get at least 90 of them to say it is. As a financial writer, I would agree, especially after the sub-prime mortgages in 2008. So using the logic that you are applying to pharmaceutical companies in general, we should stay away from all banks and all financial institutions. That would be a very poor idea, because you’d be depriving yourself of the benefits of investing. If I said that Wall Street was too corrupt to deal with, I wouldn’t have bought Facebook stock at $20 and sold at $35… making a tidy profit (though I wish I held on to make even more).
In the same way, if you avoid the pharmaceutical industry you miss out on proven treatments. I mentioned Pfizer’s Viagra before because it is well-known and well-shown to be helpful for more than 95% of people who take it. Is that an illusion or false in any way? I see your Peter Rost and raise you one Paul Offit (raise is a poker term). Paul Offit has shown that that the the supplement industry is just bad as the pharmaceutical one. Their $34 billion industry has plenty of corruption, lawyers, lobbyists as well.
Looking at it logically, corruption, lawyers, and lobbyists seems to balance out… so what does the science say? The science is supposed to strip all that clear. It can be complicated, but in the end we know that large-scale clinical trials, the more the better, show whether something works. So when I see someone complaining about Vioxx which had bountiful amounts about each (trials and people) and instead ask about ASEA which has a de minimus amount of each, I am obligated to try to educate them.
The next time you doubt “Big Pharma”, I challenge you to take a supplement of your choice vs. a proven analgesic at your next surgery. If you feel that selenium (or whatever your choice is) works better for your pain than novacaine or morphine then keep doing it. Just recognize that 999 out of 1000 people wouldn’t do the same.
Rolf siad, “I totally agree with some of your heavy weighing criticism of ASEA, for instance that they haven´t done better scientifically acceptable studies (clinical trials with double-blind technique, control groups etc. etc.) of its effects, that neglect I cannot understand. For sure they have the capacity to do such studies. And your remark about how to know how and what of its content enters the cells are indeed justified, but there seems to exist many strong testimonials of the health effects of ASEA and such are not negligible to my mind.”
Thanks for recognizing my arguments about the lack of legit studies on ASEA and that what’s in the bottle doesn’t necessarily translate to the body. Many ASEA proponents can’t understand such things.
As for the testimonials, I again refer you to the Dr. Bowden article on Huffington Post where he points out that there are incredible testimonials for many MLM health products. I’ve done a lot of research into this and a group of doctors, scientists, and researchers asked me if they could publish my resultant article on their website: no your MLM health product does not work (that’s a link to my updated article, but you can verify my claim about it being published by doctors by visiting this link: http://www.aitse.org/no-your-mlm-doesnt-work/).
As a psychiatrist, you should certainly be aware of the psychological phenomena that leads to such testimonials. At a minimum you should be able to understand that the placebo effect effects around 30% of people. Get the entire United States to try a product that is known not to be clinically effective and you’ll get 100 million people giving great testimonials… especially if it’s paired with a business opportunity that is pitched to make them millions (i.e. MLM)
Did Rolf say he IS a psychiatrist or he NEEDS a psychiatrist. Judging by that rambling off-topic shit sandwich he posted, I’m guessing it’s the latter.
Asea has MDs and PhDs on its advisory council and my neighbor who sells Asea frequently mentions different doctors who use/believe in/ recommend Asea. I am left wondering how this can be, that doctors and science professors believe what seems to be pseudo science or quackery. Do you have any insight into this? Thank you.
Every MLM has MDs and PhDs on its advisory council. Go look up MonaVie, Jusuru, Xango, LifeVantage, etc. These are paid positions and relatively “easy money” for the doctor because they just talk to uneducated masses (distributors) vs. pitch the product to their peers and conduct large-scale clinical trials.
The key is to look for what doctors who are not being paid have to say. I’ve only found one who finds Asea worth discussing… Dr. Harriet Hall as I mentioned in this article. What other doctors, who are not on ASEA’s board do you see spending time writing about the product?
Thanks for this article and all comments and links. I was skeptical of ASEA, but I’m no longer skeptical. I’m now sure that it’s a bunch of baloney.
What lazy Man just posted it’s so true. You could also add MLM like Zija, Rodan and Fields and Advocare. They all have highly paid doctors in the advisory board
Thanks for the info Lazy Man. My biggest problem now is I have to explain to my dog that her skin tumor didn’t really disappear after after I gave her Asea. By the way, did you ever think to try it yourself?
Don’t worry if your dog is anything like mine she’ll understand. It’s no different than the Protandim people claiming that the product worked on their dog. People mistakenly believe that there’s no placebo effect in animals, but it simply isn’t true as studies like this show.
When you understand how the placebo effect works and have seen all the same claims for Zrii, Xango, Xowii, Protandim, MonaVie, Jusuru, Vemma, and dozens more MLM products it doesn’t make sense to try it. However, no need to take my word for it… a group of scientists, researchers, and doctors have published a great article about it.
Sorry to say, but your shoot from the hip, mouthy & negative put down style leads us to the inevitable conclusion… that you are a douche.
I’m only a douche if I blow up your attempt to scam consumers. There’s no negative style here.
Also, I wouldn’t know how to be “mouthy” with a written word. Don’t you mean “fingery”?
I’d much rather be a straight-shooter than scam people with a bunch of disinformation and misinformation like MLMs do.
I would love to get your input concerning a direct sales communication and technology company 5Linx. We are a premier network marketing company offering a wide range of products designed to help consumers save money on services they are already using. Our company is at the forefront of the latest technologies,
offering our Independent Representatives an unparalleled opportunity to build a residual income stream.
I’ve looked into it before. What I found is that it is a scam.
Distributors are not polite and leave comments on articles about very, very different companies instead of using the obvious contact link that I made available on my site.
I won’t go into why it is a scam here, because this isn’t the proper place. Maybe I’ll write an article about it in the future.
I was approached by someone who was telling me about Asea and I was very skeptical ,but I researched this product just to say to the person that introduced me to it ,that I did In fact research it. After my research I came across your thoughts on Asea and seeing it on your lazyman website ,I have decided to become a Distributor for this company because anything you say is complete 100% Bullshit. Get a real job lazyman. I am a distributor for Protandim and I have seen first hand how this has helped people in my own family.. You are Truly a low class Human being. For all who read this post , ignore this guy ,he really and truly is clueless.
I guess people should ignore Dr. Harriet Hall for calling this scam out too. Maybe you are upset that she scientifically eviscerated your Protandim three times before.
I had missed the fan mail that an ASEA distributor sent Harriet Hall. I guess she’s clueless too and we should ignore all her logical arguments. Instead people should listen to you, when you bring nothing to the table?
Keep on trying to scam people with your pyramid schemes. You may be successful with the small minority who fall for the Nigerian prince scams. Sorry if it’s harder to scam them when they’ve got access to accurate information.
I had a friend try to sell me ASEA several years back when I had some medical issues. Being the natural skeptic I am, I decided to look I to it before making any decisions. I immediately noticed a few things that made me leery; First, as you’ve pointed out, there were no double-blind studies to prove any of the claims (note: I now see that they have published a few DB studies, but these “studies” are only to prove that their product is just as safe as drinking “normal” salt water. Good to know. LOL!). As a matter of fact, to the best of my knowledge they haven’t concluded a single study on what happens to their product (in reference to the Redox Signaling) inside the human body! For the sake of argument, let’s say that inside the bottle it is exactly what they claim. What happens when it hits the highly acidic GI tract? Who knows?
Second, I noticed that they very cleverly used the mention of Redox Signaling, but never actually state that their product, ASEA, in fact facilitates the Redox Signaling process in the human body. They very cleverly interchanged the term and their product to make it appear that’s what they were saying, but never actually said it.
Unfortunately, this is just another group preying on good people who want to believe. I have no doubt that every genuine testimonial we read is an honest account of how that person believes ASEA helped them. But that’s the entire purpose of a double-blind study; to eliminate the placebo effect or the benefit of the power of suggestion. The mind is a very powerful thing and companies like this use that to their advantage.
I am disappointed about all the “she said, he said boloney” I am seriously thinking on becoming the Mexican Lazy man and crap on all the MLM companies without having a clue on what the subject at hand is…. I have seen what Asea claims it does and i can reassure you there’s something there. Expensive or not it’s helping people… Can’t believe this articles I will give you an article you are a mierda
I am disappointed in all the “she said, he said boloney” as well, but that’s the path the company when it chose to go with MLM. Money Magazine wrote about these MLM scam companies and their claims more than 25 years ago: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1987/06/01/83883/index.htm.
These claims of the MLM miracle cures go all the way back to Nutrilite getting smacked down by the FTC in the 1950’s. See the quote in this article: “The rapidly growing Nutrilite encountered a problem not uncommon in traditional direct selling – the tendency of some salespeople to over-sell by making false product claims. Concerned that such claims were more than isolated cases, in 1951 the Food and Drug Administration obtained an injunction ‘prohibiting 15,000 door – to – door salesmen from making ‘extravagant therapeutic claims’ for Nutrilite’ ( The New York Times , 1951). The company agreed, ‘not to make certain therapeutic claims,’ but did not admit fault or guilt (Changing Times, 1952). The issue persisted. In 1957 the FDA began “an educational campaign against door-to-door selling of various food additives and vitamin preparations’ designed to counter ‘a violent campaign… designed to convince the American that he has some peculiar ‘deficiency’ (The New York Times, 1957).”
There’s really nothing there, but a clever psychological trick. Dr. Jonny Bowden wrote about all the MLM companies salespeople making outrageous claims… see this article.
My husband has been dealing with heart condition (irregular and rapid heartbeat) since 2003. It was diagnosed as chronic and since 2003 he’s been on meds, had medical procedures/surgeries, tried exercising/diet yet his condition only worsened. In March 2013 we started taking ASEA. He went to the cardiologist in March 2014 had tests done. His heart is now 100%. At my husband’s request and with the cardiologist in agreement, my husband is now being weaned off of the 4 meds he’s been taking for years. He’s already off of 3 of the meds and is working on the last one. He goes back to the cardiologist in July 2014 for a checkup to see how he’s doing, a visit we are both looking forward to. If anyone would like proof of this, let me know. I will get it.
Lisa S,
I’d like proof of causation. You gave us two things that may appear to be correlated, but you didn’t give us any reason to believe there is causation.
Please read this Wikipedia article on correlation does not imply causation and see these hilarious charts that show correlation that is not related to causation.
So thank you in advance for getting the proof, I look forward to it.
In the meantime, your website is showing a video that ASEA sponsored on The Daily Buzz. Good way to show a commercial misleading consumers into thinking it is actually endorsed by the people making the video. Why spread a video using a sleazy advertising technique?
Lazy Man, it’s called common sense. My husband was told that he’d be on medication for the rest of his life. It was diagnosed as “chronic” and he was diagnosed with this condition in 2003 but actually had it longer, just didn’t know what it was before he finally went to the doctor about it.
No doctor is going to say that ASEA did this and if they did they would never put it in writing, you should realize that. Not long before we started taking the ASEA my husband was in congestive heart failure and was in and out of the hospital/doctor’s offices. He was also diagnosed with a popular/common sleep disorder too but did not want to use the machine that was prescribed. According to studies and a physio-cardiologist my husband went to there seems to be a connection between rapid and irregular heatbeat and this sleep disorder (just look it up) yet my husband did not use the doctors prescribed treatment. So we really do have to use our brains and the sense God gives us to admit that something changed my husband’s condition after being on ASEA for a year, and since we know it wasn’t the meds because the meds are not designed to heal, the only other factor is the ASEA. I don’t want to get into a debate because we are convinced that ASEA is for real and it works.
ASEA is about being an MLM, it’s about the product and that I can tell you with confidence and certainty. If you haven’t tried and you’re sitting at your laptop saying it doesn’t work, it’s a scam etc, then no one should be listening to you on this matter.
I have my own testimony which is that I have only needed to go to the chiropractor twice in one year for my back and neck pain. This is amazing as I have had chronic back and neck pain after auto accidents, surgeries, meds, treatments etc since 1993. I was diagnosed with a disc disease in 1994. And that’s not all of my testimony. There’s much more. But I will conclude with this: Since I’ve been taking ASEA my pain and health issues have decreased so much and I actually save money by buying ASEA because I don’t have to pay to go to the chiropractor, doctors or buy meds and I can be productive! :)
Let’s remember that ASEA isn’t designed to heal either. They’ll tell you that itself if you simply read the disclaimer. Plus ASEA is essentially salt water and it has been scientifically debunked by doctors.
Yes, I know you are convinced that ASEA is real and it works. Join Dr. Jonny Bowden’s list of everyone selling a MLM product. Did Dr. Bowden have to try MonaVie, Xango, Vemma, Xocai, and Tahitian Noni to come to the realization that they don’t work? No, it’s common sense once you understand the the psychology principles at play that create the illusion.
Same thing with me. It is scientifically wrong to suggest someone try a product to determine if it works. Any result could be the placebo or any number of the psychology principles that I mentioned above. Instead we have a very easy to understand system of clinical trials. ASEA is welcome to show the water works in such clinical trials. To date they’ve avoided them. Common sense should tell you that they know that the product wouldn’t work and such a trial would expose the product as not working. If they really believed the product worked, they’d do the clinical trials and make billions of dollars healing the world of medical conditions. Doctors would say and write that ASEA helped with the condition. We’d be a lot closer to Utopia.
You do know that your testimonials are breaking the FTC’s endorsement guidelines, right?
Of course, now you force me to clarify this: I never said ASEA healed any particular disease so please do not misquote me. ASEA has made a tremendous in our lives, that’s not saying it is a cure.
Also I do want to let you and others know that WE DO NOT SELL ASEA. We buy it for ourselves. If anyone wants to buy it they can and yes we will get credit for it. Is there something wrong with that? What do you think stores and sales people do? They sell the products hopefully they believe in.
Okay, so to clarify you said it was “common sense” and then said, “So we really do have to use our brains and the sense God gives us to admit that something changed my husband’s condition after being on ASEA for a year, and since we know it wasn’t the meds because the meds are not designed to heal, the only other factor is the ASEA.”
This isn’t a direct claim, but it is what is called an implied claim. I invite you to read what the FDA says about claims by implication.
If you aren’t saying that ASEA is helpful with your husband or your condition, why even come here and post it? You can’t have things both ways. Either you are making a claim or you are admitting that ASEA has had no part in it. Please pick a side and be consistent with it.
What you described (“If anyone wants to buy it they can and yes we will get credit for it. Is there something wrong with that?”) is typically called an affiliate program. There is nothing wrong with them at all. The problem comes in with multi-level compensation plan which have been called pyramid schemes by many, including the FTC. There’s something very wrong with that.
There’s something very wrong with giving testimonials for health products that are misleading and not backed by scientific evidence. Again, the FTC explains it in detail, probably better than I do.
It isn’t the same as seeing a movie and saying that you liked it. It isn’t the same as buying a purse and telling a friend that it is a great purse. If ASEA decides to come clean and claim that it isn’t a health product and just selling novelty expensive salt water, then we can talk about it being an honest referral without invoking FTC and FDA rules on health testimonials.
As for your disrespectful comment about the video on my website, it’s under “What others are saying about ASEA.” Also, I’m finished here. I just wanted to post my husband’s progress and the truth about ASEA for anyone who wants to know the truth.