Update: Yevo changed it’s compensation structure awhile ago which made it appear to be less like an MLM or a pyramid scheme. In a post on July 27, 2016, BehindMLM reveals that Yevo will shut down due to a “lack of success”. In my opinion, Yevo wasn’t viable without the MLM/pyramid scheme component. I don’t think people were interested in paying that $5.00 serving price for oatmeal.
Back in October, 2014 I wrote an article: How To Start a $500 Million Company the Easy Way. It was meant to be satire of the MLM/Pyramid schemes out there. I outlined how they worked and how you could pull off the same scam with misinformation.
So imagine my surprise when a friend wrote me the very next day saying, (paraphrased) “Did you see that Paul Myhill is starting a new MLM company?”
It turns out that this company is Yevo.
A Little Background on Paul Myhill and MLM
Previously readers could read more about Paul Myhill and LifeVantage, but this happened. Fortunately, he’s not very important in the Yevo story.
Enough of Paul Myhill, let’s talk Yevo
Yevo looks to be an attempt to bring a bunch of people who left LifeVantage back together. Yes, the people who pushed drinks through an MLM company called Zrii went an MLM, LifeVantage to sell pills, and have now moved on to a new MLM company, Yevo.
In my experience, this is what happens when the growth of recruiting new people into the pyramid stalls at one company. It really isn’t logically that the same group of people would go from one to another.
So let’s cover a few of these people. Unfortunately, because many of the top people at Yevo is
- Peter Castleman, Founder and Chairman of the Board – His claim to fame is being involved with Herbalife. Yes, the same Herbalife that is being investigated by every regulatory agency you can think of for being a pyramid scheme… FTC, SEC, DoJ, and FBI, check, check, check, check.
I guess they were unable to get someone from Enron or Madoff’s schemes?
Quite literally almost any other human on Earth would be a better choice. In fact, they’d have more credibility in my eyes if they named Curious George as Founder. As far as I can tell, he hasn’t been involved with anything even questionably a pyramid scheme. Maybe he turned down the job ;-).
- David Brown, CEO, Kirby Zenger, Chief Architect Officer, Gene Tipps, COO – They are all formerly from LifeVantage.
- Ben Seeman – Chief Sales Officer – Prior to LifeVantage he was associated with the pyramid company Metabolife with David Brown above. Here’s what Wikipedia says with citations about Metabolife:
Metabolife International, Inc., was a multi-level marketing company based in San Diego, California which manufactured dietary supplements. Metabolife’s best-selling product, an ephedra-based supplement called Metabolife 356, once generated hundreds of millions of dollars in annual sales.[1] However, Metabolife 356 and other ephedra-containing supplements were linked to thousands of serious adverse events, including deaths, which caused the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to ban the sale of ephedra-containing dietary supplements in 2004.
Subsequently, Metabolife’s founder was convicted of lying to the FDA and concealing evidence of ephedra’s dangers, and the company and its owner were both convicted of income tax evasion. A congressional investigation found that Metabolife had received thousands of reports of serious adverse events, many occurring in young and otherwise healthy people, and that Metabolife concealed the reports and acted with “indifference to the health of consumers.”
So Yevo’s management company has ties back to Herbalife and the stunningly illegal acts of harming consumers of Metabolife.
- Jason Domingo, Master Distributor – The term “master distributor” is given to someone at the top of the pyramid. This person gets partial credit for the sales of every other salesperson. If you were to describe a pyramid scheme a master distributor would be the guy at the top.
But What About Yevo’s Products?
One of their first products is oatmeal. It comes in at a wholesale price of $5.00 per serving.
A friend sent me this video showing just how ridiculous it is.
It’s true, you can buy the premium Nature’s Path Organic Oatmeal for around 50 cents a serving on Amazon.com (it’s even cheaper if you Subscribe and Save.)
So why pay ten times more than you have to?
Perhaps one of the reasons is that there’s deceptive marketing involved. For example, there are a number of results on Google pointing to marketers claiming: “But our oatmeal has 26 grams of protein (equivalent to a 16 ounce Rib-eye).”
Yet according to SparkPeople (and any other legitimate nutrition website) a 16-ounce Rib-eye has 79 grams of protein.
In this case, it isn’t just deceptive, it’s straight-out fraud.
And let’s not get into how it is easy it is to create processed foods with high protein… simply look at any protein bar. And let’s not get into how cheap rice protein is.
And then there’s the marketing of Yevo being part of the “trillion dollar food industry.” That’s the equivalent of putting on my son’s college application that his lemonade stand was part of the “trillion dollar beverage industry.” How much weight do you think that would have with admissions?
As my friend wrote me, “No legitimate business person would ever make such a ridiculous marketing claim. However, if your intention is to deceive people about a business opportunity it makes sense.”
Is Yevo a Pyramid Scheme?
There’s a great video about pyramid schemes from billionaire Bill Ackman’s company, Pershing Square:
When I watch that video, I see a lot of similarities with Yevo. However, let’s dig a little deeper:
Reviewing Yevo through the FTC Guidelines
For this section I’ll quote from the Federal Trade Commission’s advice on MLMs/pyramid schemes
“Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. If the money you make is based on your sales to the public, it may be a legitimate multilevel marketing plan. If the money you make is based on the number of people you recruit and your sales to them, it’s not. It’s a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money.”
If you looking into run a legitimate business, you MUST ensure that you can sell a lot of the above product over your own wholesale cost to balance the amount of money that is made by recruiting. Thus far, all the marketing I’ve seen for Yevo by Yevo distributors has been around recruitment. In fact, they started recruited people before they even announced products.
Red flags do not get any more red than that.
“Many companies that market their products through distributors sell quality items at competitive prices. But some offer goods that are overpriced, have questionable merits, or are downright unsafe to use. Find out what will you be selling. Are similar products on the market? Is the product priced competitively?”
Well, clearly the products aren’t priced competitively.
The reason why this is important is because pyramid schemes use the lure of the business opportunity of recruiting others to get people buy their overpriced product that they normally wouldn’t if it was sold in their grocery store. In this case, it looks like Yevo makes at least $4.00 per serving than it would otherwise. Most of the money it pays to distributors goes to the top 1%.
The people at the bottom end could end up paying $1825 per year for oatmeal that would ordinarily cost them around $180 (using our example above). The end result is that the consumer at the bottom loses $1645 per year.
That’s a lot of money that could be spent on better health choices or even giving to charity to help others.
“Many of these “quick cures” are unproven, fraudulently marketed, and useless.”
The video covering the oatmeal that I linked to above covered one such deceptive practice. The marketing of the amount of protein compared to a rib-eye is another.
“Find — and study — the company’s track record…. Find out: how long the company has been in business”
Well Yevo has a soft launch in a few days, so there’s no company track record to speak of.
I’ve covered the individuals leading the company above and clearly their track record is horrendous.
Conclusion: I could probably go through the FTC document in more detail, but even before this company officially launched it’s managed to hit many of the FTC’s red flags.
Summing It All Up
Given the above information, I don’t how anyone can claim that Yevo is NOT a scam. Any one area should be enough of a red flag, but when there is evidence after evidence, the conclusion becomes clear to me.
Alex Severn said: “Do I need to draw you a picture for you to get the math here? I proved that you need to consume at least 3 servings of Boost to get even part of the nutrients of 1 serving of Yevo Smoothie.”
Your argument couldn’t be more asinine. I explained already that the additives in Yevo EN-43 — like omega-3 (less than 8 cents worth), whey protein (worth a few pennies), and what amounts to a crushed up multivitamin — are dirt cheap (worth in total a couple of dimes at best) and do not justify the 2- to 2.6-fold price differential relative to Boost, especially since EN-43 is not ready-to-drink and is therefore less convenient (a justification for a lower price, which you asserted just last week).
Suggesting that 1 serving of Yevo is worth 3 servings of Boost is idiotic. A serving of Quaker Oats contains twice as much soluble fiber as Yevo oats, so by your flawed logic, I could argue that a serving of Quaker Oats is worth twice as much. Going a step further with this absurd line of reasoning, one could argue that a lemon is worth more than a pound of sushi grade ahi tuna because it contains more vitamin C, or that a single grape, which contains an infinitely greater amount of resveratrol than EN-43 (0 mg), is infinitely more valuable than a warehouse full of EN-43.
Yevo isn’t the first MLM to resort to this particular line of fallacious logic. The charlatans at the MLM Monavie used the exact same chicanery with their “miracle” acai berry elixir… http://image.slidesharecdn.com/mvflipchart1-12614199573316-phpapp02/95/monavie-presentation-6-728.jpg?cb=1264695121
…that is, until the “inventor” of Monavie, Ralph Carson, eventually came clean and admitted that the product was nothing more than “expensive flavored water”. Monavie’s demise followed soon after.
http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/money/53061545-79/monavie-company-distributors-percent.html.csp
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2491834-155/utah-based-monavie-faces-foreclosure-after-spectacular
Alex Severn said: “So uncommon that thousands farms all over the United States offer subscription produce at a discounted price”
Is Yevo running a farm and shipping ultra-fresh produce? No, they’re hawking shelf-stable ultra-processed powdered mutant food in plastic pouches. The farm example you provided has nothing to do with the two-tiered pricing structure that we were talking about. The line of discussion started when you erroneously tried to conflate Yevo’s auto-ship with subscription based-services like Netflix and ISP providers. I simply pointed out that it’s uncommon for people to “subscribe” to food, and that auto-ship, which foists a fixed consumption schedule on the Yevo buyer, is a net inconvenience relative to simply picking up less expensive retail products at the supermarket as needed. Your example does not impact my initial argument. It is uncommon for people to “subscribe” to food and virtually unheard of for people to subscribe to such a limited range of shit product offerings as Yevo is offering.
Alex Severn said: “If you are going to trash talk someone, you should at least know your facts. Here are 66 other listings for the exact same product on Amazon all at different “List” prices.
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Desktop-Hard-Disk-Drive/dp/B0088PUEPK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451946092&sr=8-1&keywords=1TB+wd+blue+drive
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Mobile-Hard-Disk-Drive/dp/B00C9TEBJQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1451946092&sr=8-2&keywords=1TB+wd+blue+drive
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Mobile-Hard-Disk-Drive/dp/B00C9TEBJQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1451946092&sr=8-2&keywords=1TB+wd+blue+drive
Trash talk? ROFL! Damn, you’re so incompetent it makes me wince. The first link you provided is for a WD model #WD10EZEX drive; the second link is for a different drive altogether – model #WD10JPVX; and the third link was a repeat of the second link – same URL, same drive, same seller, same price.
Your attempt at a rebuttal was so astonishingly inept it’s as though you weren’t even trying to make sense; just spewing out random words and URLs on the page. Maybe that’s your angle – trying to wage a war of attrition and punish us by having to continually respond to incoherent word vomit. It’s bad enough that you use losing arguments when you’re talking about Yevo (the topic at hand), but even worse when you veer off on tangents with crude analogies and somehow manage to F those up.
Alex Severn said: “The smoothie contains 30 g protein, not 25g”
Not according to this photo of the package. It states 25 g protein.
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/jc/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAICAAAAJDg3N2RjYTI5LTc4MjktNDI0ZS1hMTk3LWE3Nzc4YmM2MGMzMg.jpg
Splitting hairs though. I was simply pointing out a hole in your claim that you had ditched Yevo’s oatmeal for the EN-43 smoothie powder because you wanted “something high protein and what not in the morning.” In fact, the oatmeal contains 26 g protein, which is “high in protein”, and it’s either a gram more (according to my photo) or a few grams less (according to your webpage) than the amount of protein in EN-43. Either way the difference is minimal. So getting back to my original point, you can go back to your 14-fold overpriced “high protein” shit MLM oatmeal again without fear of depriving yourself of protein.
Alex Severn said: “You need to go back and get your facts straight. There’s nothing that says additional ingredients beyond water is required for this product. You ever eat Greek Yogurt? Ever add anything to it like fruit??? Same thing as the suggestion provided here for the Yevo Smoothie.”
Man, the arguments you’re using are pathetic. I never said anything about “required”. I stated a simple set of facts: (1) a smoothie is a drink typically made with fruit and some form of dairy product, like milk and/or yogurt; (2) Yevo EN-43 “smoothie” powder contains neither fruit nor milk/yogurt; (3) Yevo EN-43 shouldn’t be called a “smoothie” because it contains nothing even vaguely reminiscent of a smoothie. You could, however, make a smoothie using real fruit and dairy and add the EN-43 powder to it (as suggested in the Yevo marketing materials I linked to) as a booster of sorts, but then the cost of the EN-43 would be an add-on. Also, if you didn’t add fruit or milk/yogurt (the key ingredients that make smoothies taste good) to EN-43 it would taste like complete $hit, especially given that EN-43 contains 25-30 g whey protein powder (which tastes as good as chalk), a bunch of mineral salts, “fishy” smelling omega-3 FAs, and a meager amount of sugar (3 g).
Alex Severn said: “The oatmeal formula has evolved since it was first released at least 2 times that I’m aware of.”
Not surprisingly, you missed the point yet again. You claimed that you wanted to focus the discussion on the smoothies instead of the oatmeal because the latter, according to your reckoning, was a “Yevo Version 1 type product, or a beta test”; as though that would somehow disqualify it from further consideration. I simply pointed out that oatmeal is still a significant part of the Yevo product line (and therefore, it’s not a ‘beta’ product per se), and that there was no logical reason to exclude it from our analyses.
Now that you’ve had the chance to indulge in diverting the discussion to hard drives, fruit baskets, and the definition of terms like “MSRP” and “smoothie”, maybe you can get back to talking about Yevo: particularly their powdered mashed potatoes that sell for nearly 6-dollars a serving (nothing says healthy food like mashed potato dust in a box); their green tea that’s overpriced 30-fold; the reputations of the pyramid scheme recidivist/LifeVantage-Metabolife retreads behind the company like Brown, Zenger, Domingo, and Myhill (and the implications this has for product reliability); and how this horrifically awful processed $hit food is being marketed not only as a better option than eating “real” food (and, paradoxically, as both an aid for gaining and losing weight), but also as a remedy for Alzheimer’s disease and dementia.
Let’s also talk about how the fundamental concept that Yevo is pushing to sell their products (i.e., recommending a diet where 2 of 3 daily meals consists of eating overpriced, over-processed, vitamin-fortified, powdered Franken-food in a bag) is completely at odds with the advice of virtually all authoritative sources on nutrition, which consistently recommend a diet consisting mainly of fresh fruits and vegetable with lesser amounts of whole grains/legumes and animal protein, avoiding processed foods, and not relying on supplementation to fill gaps.
Lazyman said: “You had the same IP address as Joe Blace. The odds of that happening are one in several billion, and much, much larger if you consider the timing and that you both defend a relatively unknown company with very few product sales”
I reject your claim that I had the same IP address of this Joe character. This is impossible. Why don’t you pull up your web server logs and prove it?
FYI: There are not “billions” of IP addresses available to the US consumer. The number is but a very small fraction of this. The VAST majority of IPV4 addresses allocated in the US have been allocated to big corporations like Microsoft, Facebook, Google, etc. Even these are no where near the “billions.” You started off saying my digital finger print was unique in the trillions. Man, your facts are all over the board an nowhere near accurate
Alex said, “I reject your claim that I had the same IP address of this Joe character. This is impossible. Why don’t you pull up your web server logs and prove it?”
Okay, here you go: http://static.lazymanandmoney.com/images/2016/01/05064408/BlaceSevern.png
I didn’t say that there are billions of IP addresses available to the US Consumer. I simply said there are billions of them. Extending the odds that two different people would use the same IP to defend a small company that the vast majority of the country has never heard of clearly puts it in the trillions. Joe Blace changed his IP address frequently too. I’m sure you are saying it is just a coincidence that you both happen to travel the country a lot.
I’ve put up the evidence. Make with the drivers license or we can just add it to the pack of misinformation and lies you’ve spread here.
You guys are still actually arguing over this? I wrote you off when you thought Vogel’s comparison of Yevo instant oats to Quaker quick oats was more accurate than my comparison of Yevo instant oats to Quaker instant oats. Ridiculous.
How do I quit getting notifications?
Rachel, every email you receive has unsubscribe instructions at the bottom of it (probably called “Manage Your Subscriptions). Go to the page it tells you, click the check box to unsubscribe from the conversations listed and hit “delete”, “unsubscribe”, or whatever the verbiage is.
Alex Severn said: “I reject your claim that I had the same IP address of this Joe character. This is impossible. Why don’t you pull up your web server logs and prove it?”
You reject the claim??? ROFL! You’re a riot! Not only did Lazy Man prove that the IPs match, the Comcast IP traces to Oregon, the home state of Jodi Unruh (a Yevo “founding distributor”), who previously trolled this board using the same Comcast IP as two other aliases that posted comments here, and she just happens to be a Comcast subscriber. That’s some coincidence!
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?ip=67.171.213.95
http://www.whitepages.com/name/Jodi-U-Unruh/Eugene-OR/6d4n3vg
Vogel, you are always coming up with the best stuff. I didn’t realize that Jodi ws from Eugene, OR. The “coincidences” are just piling up.
It’s crazy the lengths people will go to in order to promote their MLM pyramid scheme. Yep MLM just has a few bad eggs. LOL!
You guys are just a couple real comedians.
Looking at your blog comment history, it seems you like to develop aliases for commenters based upon who you think they are with no real proof. You’re pinning any comment you think is from a Yevo distributor on a few of the ones who pop up highest in the google rankings.
I never said I wasn’t associated with Yevo. Quite the contrary actually.
Lazyman said “It’s crazy the lengths people will go to in order to promote their MLM pyramid scheme. Yep MLM just has a few bad eggs. LOL!”
I have not promoted anything in my comments here. I was simply disputing the incorrect information you and Vogel are posting about Yevo products.
Instead of debating the incorrect facts you both are posting, you seem more concerned about conspiracy theories as if I’m some sort of a hacker trying to hack your blog.
I have nothing to be ashamed of nor embarrassed about in terms of anything I’ve posted here. I choose to write under a pen name just like the both of you. Why should I have to have my good name slandered by you two? Unlike Vogel, I’ve been polite and non-judgmental and attempted to discuss the topics here. Go back and read all of his comments. He attacks and name calls in just about every one of his responses.
You are proving the exact point that some of the other commenters have made here that you are more concerned about beating up MLM’s than protecting consumer interests. As a “neutral” blogger, why would you care who is posting as long as it’s on topic and respectful debate?
Your attacks on me only serve to prove the point that you are not out to protect the consumer.
Alex said, “You’re pinning any comment you think is from a Yevo distributor on a few of the ones who pop up highest in the google rankings.”
This is completely false. I’ve showed the IP address proving that you lied about being the same commenter going by the Joe Blace handle. It is notable that your scheming handles does come from the same 160,000 population city as one of the founding distributors.
Maybe you should have come forth and been open with your employee/distributor bias. You know the the FTC endorsement guidelines does require you to not mislead people by posing as just a happy customer, right?
I’ve been anonymous because I give details about my personal finance information and I’ve had my life threatened by MLM distributors. What’s your reason for being anonymous? You are so ashamed of being a Yevo distributor/employee that you don’t want people to find out.
You have not been respectful here, you’ve created multiple IDs. One of those ideas has threaten to hire a private investigator to harass me. That’s the exact opposite of being respectful and staying on topic.
I don’t think you’ve claimed anything I posted was incorrect. The exception was that you claimed that I had no evidence that you are Blace and I showed the IPs connecting you.
Anyone can read my 2000 articles and see that I’m a neutral blogger. They show that I am indeed out to protect the consumer. I also make no money if people buy Yevo or not.
On the contrary, your repeated proven deception shows the types of bad characters that MLMs attract.
Alex’s fallacious argument about the fruit vendor warrants some additional debunking. The comments of our discussion were as follows:
Alex Severn said: “As for the autoship comments, how is this any different from companies like Netflix or my ISP putting me on a subscription for discount pricing? This is very common.”
Vogel said: “It’s very uncommon with food. In fact, it is the exact opposite of common – it virtually never happens with food products except in the rarified world of MLM, because auto-ship is necessary to drive the scam.”
Alex Severn (completely missing the point) said: “So uncommon that thousands farms all over the United States offer subscription produce at a discounted price” http://www.farmfreshtoyou.com/
I subscribe to one of these in my local area and get the produce at about a 30% discount over going out and buying it from their retail store.”
The original topic of discussion that these comments centered around was the fact that Yevo uses a two-tiered pricing scheme and that the discounted distributor/PC price is contingent on committing to inconvenient monthly auto-ship, which I pointed out was very atypical for non-MLM food products. That apparently sailed over Alex’s head, who came back with an erroneous example of a fruit/vegetable vendor that has a one-tiered pricing scheme with no discounts for recurring monthly orders. This is another example of how Alex’s replies don’t pertain to what’s being discussed; just random crap thrown out on the page for others to clean up. Alex probably thought no one would do any follow-up fact-checking, or just didn’t care if their analogy was faulty. It was the same with the discussion about MSRP and Alex’s embarrassing faux pas regarding the hard drives on Amazon. This is someone who’s too dumb to understand the gist of a mildly complex discussion and/or purposely resorts to misdirection in an attempt to support their fallacious arguments.
Alex Severn said: “You and Vogel claimed that Yevo was pricing it’s (sic) products an order of magnitude higher than market value in order to pay commissions.”
I didn’t say that all of Yevo’s products were overpriced by an order of magnitude (i.e., a factor of ten) in order to pay commissions. I was very specific in making 2 key points: (1) that their products, and virtually all MLM products for that matter, are mundane overhyped/overpriced versions of comparable retail products and offer poor value because of the extraordinarily high operating margins (due to distributor payouts) baked into the MLM pyramid model; and (2) I specified the approximate amount by which specific Yevo products were overpriced relative to comparable retail products: i.e., 2-3 fold for the not-a-smoothie powder, up to 14-fold for the oatmeal, and 30-fold for their green tea. You completely ignored the latter two examples as well as Yevo’s $6-a-serving mashed potato powder, because you know that they are even more indefensible than the company’s overpriced not-a-smoothie powder.
Alex Severn said: “For the product in question, Yevo Smoothie, I’ve provided proof that this is not the case.”
You did nothing of the kind. You were shown that a serving of Yevo’s not-a-smoothie powder sells for 2-3 times the price of a serving of Boost (a more convenient ready-to-drink beverage). You came back with a fallacious counterargument that a couple of dimes worth of vitamins, protein, and non-USP grade omega-3s justifies the 2-3-fold price differential, even though it clearly doesn’t (and you also punted on the convenience issue). You then ignored the fact that the prices of Yevo’s other products like oatmeal, green tea, and mashed potatoes are hyperinflated by an order of magnitude (3 orders of magnitude in the case of the green tea). Finally, you ignored the issue of the not-a-smoothie powder, the least overpriced (only 2-3 fold) among Yevo’s product offerings, being used as a loss leader.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader
Alex Severn said: “I have no doubt that you and Vogel will continue to crow that network marketing companies are the sourges (sic) of the free market system.”
Continue crowing? I never spoke such words even once. I merely said that MLMs cause considerable human misery, because it is a well-documented fact. Like most people, I think MLM cults are horrific for a variety of valid reasons, but I would never resort to pointless hyperbole and describe them as the scourge of the free market system – that’s more your style.
Alex Severn said: “Are there some bad eggs in the network marketing industry? Sure there are. Every sector of the free market system has bad eggs. Bad egg businesses in the free market system have been ripping off consumers for centuries.”
So? What’s your point? Is it that bad eggs in any sector of business should be criticized, which would validate our criticism of Yevo, or are you resorting to redicretion/fingerpointing to exonerate Yevo; ie., by invoking an argument that boils down “don’t criticize MLM (and my company) because other things in the world are bad too”? Epic fail if it’s the latter. Aside from all the serious and widely publicized problems with the MLM industry, the irony of your position is that one of the “bad eggs” that you speak of happens to be your CEO: i.e., David Brown, former CEO of (1) Metabolife, an MLM company that killed and injured consumers of its products, lied about it to the FDA, and had several of their executives sent to prison for tax evasion (their CFO shot himself in the head); and (2) LifeVantage, a snakeoil miracle-remedy MLM that issued a $12 million product recall as a result of metal shard contamination during Brown’s tenure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolife
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protandim#Voluntary_recall
It’s also ironic that you have established yourself as one of MLMs so-called “bad eggs” by trolling under multiple user names; ignoring your legal obligations under the terms of your distributor contract; and for making so damn many glaringly flawed and specious arguments.
Alex Severn said: “You seem to enjoy posting links from Amazon with all of these great deals. Do you know why Amazon has great deals? Often times they are ripping off their vendors and suppliers…Why don’t you write some blog posts about Amazon ripping off the hard up author who poured soul into a literary work and used Amazon publishing to try and eek (sic) out a living? Or what about this reputable company: http://www.debeers.com/ These guys have made billions of dollars ripped off the little guy.”
Suggesting that this blog should divert into a deep analysis of Amazon (a non-MLM online retailer) and DeBeer’s (a non-MLM diamond company) is quite the red herring. This “don’t blame me, blame the other guy” defense that you keep invoking is pitiful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “You guys are just a couple real comedians.”
OK, there’s throwaway comment number 1. Care to go for a few more?
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “Looking at your blog comment history, it seems you like to develop aliases for commenters based upon who you think they are with no real proof.”
Atta girl! I knew you couldn’t go more than half a sentence without resorting to another fallacious argument. I don’t “make up” any aliases for anyone ever, but when Lazy Man spots what appears to be multiple users popping up in a conversation but which in fact are sock puppets aliases posting under the same IP address (data which identifies the user and which Lazy Man has sole access to), it’s only fair to identify the sock-puppet accordingly. Rather than bristling at the outing of sockpuppet rats, you should stop resorting to sockpuppetry.
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “You’re pinning any comment you think is from a Yevo distributor on a few of the ones who pop up highest in the google rankings.”
That’s over-the-top absurd. User IDs associated with the same IP address are identified as such. It has nothing to do with Google or distributors who pop up in the rankings.
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “I never said I wasn’t associated with Yevo. Quite the contrary actually.”
Ouch! A triple negative! I don’t have a F-ing clue what you’re trying to say, so you might want to take a mulligan on that comment.
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “I have not promoted anything in my comments here. I was simply disputing the incorrect information you and Vogel are posting about Yevo products.”
Firstly, you’re a distributor discussing the product on this board; in the eyes of the law, anything you say about the product is considered promotional. Secondly, you’ve brought a mindboggling amount of misinformation to this board, so if your aim was to dispute any of my information, you have failed in epic fashion.
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “Instead of debating the incorrect facts you both are posting, you seem more concerned about conspiracy theories as if I’m some sort of a hacker trying to hack your blog.”
Hardly, your deceptive use of multiple aliases has been mentioned a few times in passing because it’s noteworthy that a clandestine distributor troll vigorously defending their scam with flawed arguments would also resort to sock-puppetry. The only reason the mention of IPs and identities keeps coming up is because you keep bringing it up.
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “I have nothing to be ashamed of nor embarrassed about in terms of anything I’ve posted here.”
Yes you do. You have repeatedly posted poorly researched material and misinformation, violated the terms of your distributor contract, and resorted to sockpuppetry. That alone is plenty to be ashamed and embarrassed about, in addition to being a participant in a blatantly silly exploitative pyramid scheme cult that fraudulently markets disgusting overpriced powdered slop as a better option than real food and a potential remedy for Alzheimer’s disease.
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “I choose to write under a pen name just like the both of you. Why should I have to have my good name slandered by you two?”
I don’t have a problem if you pick ONE pen name. However, I justifiably have a huge problem when you post using multiple aliases pretending to be different people. In what way do you feel that your good name was slandered, and which name is it that you’re referring to? The alias Alex Severn? The alias Joe Blace? Or are you saying that you’re Jodi Unruh? Be specific.
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “Unlike Vogel, I’ve been polite and non-judgmental and attempted to discuss the topics here. Go back and read all of his comments. He attacks and name calls in just about every one of his responses.”
Bully for you! You get a B+ for politeness but straight Fs for everything that matters most (like not playing the victim when you’ve been proven wrong time and time again).
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace) said: “You are proving the exact point that some of the other commenters have made here that you are more concerned about beating up MLM’s than protecting consumer interests. As a “neutral” blogger, why would you care who is posting as long as it’s on topic and respectful debate? Your attacks on me only serve to prove the point that you are not out to protect the consumer.”
Other commenters? You mean that you and the other sockpuppet distributor aliases agree with your accusation? No one cares whether you participate in the debate as an honest player. No one minded your participation even after you were outed as a sockpuppet/distributor; but when you do something dishonest, you instantly blow your credibility, and the responsibility for that is yours alone. There’s also a point beyond which your steady stream of hopelessly flawed arguments become a time waster and no longer welcome beyond serving as a source of mild amusement and a mundane academic exercise in spotting fallacies of logic. Resorting to diversion tactics is not welcome either, but I don’t necessarily mind that you invoked these red herrings because it helps to illuminate how your scam operates. You have steadily progressed from invoking specious arguments, to outright disinformation and sockpuppetry, evasion, trying to change the subject, shifting the blame, pretending to be the victim, and now impugning the blog host. It’s a predictable progression we’ve seen time and time again in discussions about other nefarious MLMs, and it typically culminates with wild conspiracy theories and ultimately physical and legal threats.
As for protecting consumers, it is clearly in their best interest to avoid Yevo products like the plague. Deal with it.
Looks like Severn’s latest comment triggered Google’s warning that it may be a scam:
See this image.
I’ve given as much latitude as I can to someone who makes up multiple user names, threatens to harass me in my neighborhood (under his pseudonym of Joe Blace), doesn’t reveal his affiliation with Yevo as required by the FTC Endorsement Guidelines, and attacks people here rather than legitimately debate the points.
Any one of these points is enough to remove him, but combine them all and it was way past the tipping point long ago.
So to recap, prior to getting outed for sockpuppetry, Jodi Unruh (a Yevo “founding distributor”) was deceptively posting here under (at least) 3 different user names (her own name and as “Tim Robinson” and “Jeff Becker”), and then another user appeared, who may have been Unruh or someone affiliated with her, who was also trolling using (at least) 3 different user names (“Joe Blace”, “Frank Smith”, and “Alex Severn”).
To add insult to injury, the “Joe Blace” alias resorted to scum-baggery of the highest order by making personal and legal threats against Lazy Man:
Joe Blace said: “Hey everyone. We are working on getting some personal contact information for Lazy Man such as his employer, home address, etc. Few hundred bucks to a local PI his home town to go check up on him. We’ll get this information out to everyone and then we can all give his boss a call and let him know what we think, perhaps give a few neighbors a call, etc.
Joe Blace says: “Give me a little time bro. I’ll soon have your home address, phone number, etc. I’ll then spam it out to as many people as I can.”
Joe Blace said: “Just finishing my letter to Yevo Compliance with references to the Court Documents and Court Orders…This should make it relatively easy for Yevo to file similar legal actions against you because you are clearly up to the same shenanigans. I’ll email you a copy of the letter.”
Collectively, this conduct gives a frightening glimpse into the lack of ethics of Yevos organization (aside from all the self-serving misinformation posted by these sockpuppets).
Interestingly, I found a rather scathing complaint online against Unruh and her husband Greg Zartman, which alleges that they were running a skeezy MLM by the name of Best Cash Rewards, and – here’s the kicker – that they were using multiple aliases to spam various blog sites. The complaint was as follows:
“I find it amusing that Greg Zartman & Jodi Unruh Zartman are here complaining about some fictitious rip off! After all, they are the masters of the con. They ripped hundreds and hundreds of people off for thousands of dollars in a pyramid scheme they headed up. It was called Best Cash Rewards.
It took me a little time to track them down again, but here they are starting their con all over again, just like they did in Best Cash Rewards. And then those that didn’t play their game they crucified online just as they are doing now.
They are also masters of posting as dozens of bloggers on every blog they can find and also create their own fake blogs, just like the one listed here. And then they post total fabrications and they don’t allow anyone to post comments, because they are afraid of the truth.
Beware of these con artists, they will destroy your reputation of you don’t join in and play their con their way.”
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Amy-Freeman-MonaVie/Eugene-Oregon-97401/Amy-Freeman-MonaVie-Amy-Freeman-Is-A-MonaVie-Scam-Artist-Eugene-Oregon-356764
Needless to say, the pattern of behavior described in that complaint perfectly matches what we’ve witnessed here on this site.
Interestingly, I noticed that Greg Zartman is an IT/network admin.
http://www.guru.com/service/server-administration/united-states/oregon/eugene/2004784
As soon as I saw this, I remembered that one of the recent comments left by “Alex Severn” seemed to indicate that he/she had some degree of expert knowledge about networks and IP allocations; i.e…
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace, aka Frank Smith) said “FYI: There are not “billions” of IP addresses available to the US consumer. The number is but a very small fraction of this. The VAST majority of IPV4 addresses allocated in the US have been allocated to big corporations like Microsoft, Facebook, Google, etc.”
It was also curious that Joe Blace admitted to routinely using a proxy server to hide his/her identity when visiting blog sites:
Joe Blace, (aka Alex Severn, aka Frank Smith) said: “Now you are lying. I never browse a site like this with anything but a proxy. It’s impossible that I’d have the same address of the Frank character.”
Also interesting was finding out that Unruh is marketing herself as an internet “reputation management” specialist, which is consistent with her trolling of this website and failed attempts at damage control.
https://www.thumbtack.com/or/west-linn/marketing-consultants/affordable-public-relations-social-media-expert
It’s clear that we’ve got some of Yevo’s “bad apples” infesting the site.
Was just checking out Jodi Unruh’s Yevo testimonial webpage and was alarmed to see that the company’s products are being positioned as a remedy for skin diseases, diabetes, Crohn’s disease, gastroesophageal reflux, pain/inflammation, hemorrhoids, ADHD/autism, cancer, etc., in apparent violation of U.S. law.
http://www.jodiunruh.com/reviews.html
Here are a few choice excerpts:
“I started the Oatmeal and the first 3 days I broke out worse then ever, BUT…I kept going with the Yevo and by day 5 all skin issues were disappearing. By one week they were completely gone!!! (I realized the first 3 days I was detoxing) And my skin is clear to this day!”
“So my BFF Ashly, who is also in Yevo has been on it since June. She has Non Hotchkins Lymphoma and she has gone down 7 points on her counts. Yevo is amazing and is doing amazing things in people’s lives. Love Yevo!!!”
“Yevo has taken the guessing out of what nutrients my body really needs. Without Yevo’s nutrients I would have to take Advil every day for my inflammation.”
“I am 71 years old and have had SEVERE hemorrhoids for a long time. I have tried many things WITHOUT any help! The only thing that helped for a short while was a particular soap. However, within a week of eating Yevo meals, I NO LONGER HAVE HEMORRHOIDS!”
“I haven’t been able to hold my left arm above my head for a year. In October of 2014 I had to have a double mastectomy and I had 3 lymph nodes removed from my left underarm…This morning, to test the theory, we went outside and I was able to hang on the monkey bars and put all of my weight on it. I can seriously only attribute this to Yevo as I haven’t changed anything else about my lifestyle.”
“After eating Yevo Oatmeal since February twice a day sometimes more because I absolutely love it I am excited to tell the world I have decreased my A.D.H.D medication more than half soon to stop altogether.”
Interestingly, the webpage includes the following disclaimer:
“All testimonies and experiences are the opinions and beliefs of individuals who have used YEVO products and are not necessarily the opinions or beliefs of YEVO International Inc. The testimonies are not intended to claim that YEVO products can be used to diagnose, treat, cure, mitigate or prevent any disease. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These testimonies posted on this website are published for informational purposes only. This information should not in any way be used as a substitute for the advice of a physician or other licensed health care practitioner. Testimonials should not be construed as representing results everyone can achieve.”
What’s remarkable here is that the disclaimer is admitting that, at best, these are not typical outcomes that can be reliably achieved by users of the product. As such, the testimonials violate FTC regulations which require that product claims reflect results that a typical user can expect to achieve.
Lastly, I was alarmed to see the following claim on Unruh’s page from an alleged customer who experienced severe weight loss with Yevo products.
“21 Days into the 43 Day Weight Loss Challenge. I Lost 21 lbs in 21 Days…”
What’s alarming about this claim is that a healthy rate of weight loss is about 1 to 2 pounds per week. This individual purports to have lost a weight at an astronomical rate of a pound a day. Not only is this virtually impossible unless one is fasting, it’s extremely unsafe and can cause a variety of health problems.
http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/loseweight/Pages/should-you-lose-weight-fast.aspx
Sadly, Unruh’s is not an isolated example of this type of illicit marketing. The same BS testimonials are being peddled by other Yevo distributors like Cory Lesher, Dani Walker, Annora Brennan,
Scott Lee, and Alix Martinez, as seen in the examples below.
http://www.teamresourcehub.com/YEVO_Product_TESTIMONIES_from_03-22-15_Company_Call.mp3
https://www.facebook.com/Yevotestimonials
http://teamvisionlive.com/testimonials/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzMOZhkD5M
http://www.successteamglobal.com/#!testimonials/c17qm
Check out these comments posted by Yevo distributor Alix Martinez on her Facebook page regarding the smell and taste of Yevo EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder.
“It smells gross, someone said fish food, I would say that’s accurate! The first three days I didn’t like the taste. I left my cup out for 24 hours and it got moldy. This is gross.”
https://www.facebook.com/my43nutrients/photos/a.1634673106788544.1073741828.1602177613371427/1666436163612238
“So I opened the bag and did what anyone else would do, I smelled it. I felt like I opened a bag of Fish Food. Ugh, how was I ever going to drink this. I was mad for not going to get the bananas. Reluctantly I moved forward. I put only Almond milk, Ice and the fish food in my blender.”
https://www.facebook.com/my43nutrients/photos/a.1634673106788544.1073741828.1602177613371427/1664699673785887
These comments echo what Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace, aka Frank Smith) said about the powder smelling fishy. As I pointed out before, the omega-3s in EN-43 (800 mg per serving) are not USP-certified, and the risk with lower grades of omega-3s is that they can be rancid. Rancidity is characterized by a fishy smell, and apparently EN-43 is so fishy smelling that even the product’s distributors feel compelled to admit that it’s overwhelming. This again strengthens the argument against EN-43 in favor of a Boost High Protein shake ($1.30) and 8-cents worth of a USP-grade omega-3 supplement.
Furthermore, it’s hard to imagine a leftover smoothie, dairy product, or any other type of beverage turning moldy in 24 hours, unless the product had mold contamination prior to use. Mold contamination is an ever-present risk with the many of the bulk ingredients used in supplement manufacturing.
I also noticed that every time the EN-43 not-a-smoothies were mentioned on Alix’s page, they were always mixed with actual smoothie ingredients like almond milk, coconut water, fruit, peanut butter, etc., presumably to give the mix some semblance of being an actual smoothie and to mask the bad taste of the EN-43 powder. Either way, this supports my previous assertion that EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder is an additive and not a stand-alone beverage product like Boost. All the ingredients that make the product palatable and smoothie-like would be add-on expenses.
https://www.facebook.com/my43nutrients/posts/1666853103570544
https://www.facebook.com/my43nutrients/posts/1672095326379655 https://www.facebook.com/my43nutrients/posts/1663159790606542
A quick follow-up is in order regarding Alex Severn’s claim that his/her conduct has been polite and non-judgmental.
Alex Severn (aka Joe Blace, aka Frank Smith) said: “Unlike Vogel, I’ve been polite and non-judgmental and attempted to discuss the topics here. Go back and read all of his comments. He attacks and name calls in just about every one of his responses.”
Vogel said: Bully for you! You get a B+ for politeness but straight Fs for everything that matters most (like not playing the victim when you’ve been proven wrong time and time again).
Seems I slipped up and was far too generous with that B+. Completely forgot that Alex Severn’s alternate alias Joe Blace (aka Frank Smith) made the following incredibly rude and judgmental comments:
Joe Blace said: “Hey everyone. We are working on getting some personal contact information for Lazy Man such as his employer, home address, etc. Few hundred bucks to a local PI his home town to go check up on him. We’ll get this information out to everyone and then we can all give his boss a call and let him know what we think, perhaps give a few neighbors a call, etc…Give me a little time bro. I’ll soon have your home address, phone number, etc. I’ll then spam it out to as many people as I can. The truth hurts when you have a belly full of lies…Just finishing my letter to Yevo Compliance with references to the Court Documents and Court Orders…This should make it relatively easy for Yevo to file similar legal actions against you because you are clearly up to the same shenanigans. I’ll email you a copy of the letter.”
Joe Blace said: “Every one of your comments are the same crap Forest Gump. I guess “Stupid is as stupid does” is quite applicable here…You and Lazyman are a couple bitter and bored men… Numskull. Just more hot air… You are some bored numskull that hangs out of a blog attacking people. In real life, you are very likely a weak and pathic (sic) little man. The two of you need to get a life… Vogel, you are too much of a knucklehead to even respond to…. you are starting to bore the hell out of me. Everything you say is basically the same crap regurgited (sic) over and over… basically just verbal vomit… I think all you know how to do is lie. You also aren’t real bright.”
Frank Smith said: “Nice try LazyAssMan. I actually like that. Assman. Perfect!”
That B+ for politeness has to be downgraded to an F-. If the option were available, I’d make you sit in the corner wearing a dunce cap before expelling you from school altogether.
Yevo CEO David Brown took the company’s traveling snakeoil medicine show to TV station WKYC for a promotional spot back in April 2015, and he committed the unforgivable transgression of illegally positioning Yevo’s products for the prevention of diseases. This is an excerpt of Brown’s Yevo pitch:
“The bottom line is essential nutrients are things that scientists have shown throughout the world are crucial for our bodies to have to function correctly; to grow, heal, and live. And if we have those essential nutrients in our food each and every day, we’ll be able to avoid many of the diseases that we’re plagued with out there and that’s why we created Yevo; to provide those essential nutrients in wholesome nutritious food.”
http://www.wkyc.com/story/entertainment/television/lakeside-live/2015/04/22/david-brown–43-essential-nutrients/26191351/
What he’s saying here is that Yevo was created to prevent diseases (a claim that’s both idiotic and in apparent violation of US law). It wasn’t, obviously; it was developed to make money for a bunch of degenerate recidivist pyramid scheme MFers. It would be fair to argue that the company’s attempts to convince people that whole foods are either worthless or bad for you, and that Yevo’s powdered processed $hit in a bag is a better choice than real food, is likely to inflict disease on their customers, who are instructed to eat 2 meals a day, ad infinitum, consisting solely of this ridiculous mutant Yevo garbage.
None of this is surprising though given that two of Yevo’s executives (David Brown and Ben Seeman) were formerly executives at Metabolife; the MLM company (started by two convicted methamphetamine dealers) that injured and killed consumers with dangerous supplements, lied to the FDA to cover their tracks, and had several of their execs sent to prison.
http://www.superfoods43.com/yevo/yevo-team-leadership.html#sthash.hNBLtIwP.F2L75BBT.dpbs
I was just listening to some Yevo distributor audio presentations featuring the company’s co-founder Chip Marsden and I came across some very interesting details relevant to our previous discussion about the products’ bad taste and smell. The excerpts from Marsden and my comments below are based on the following recording
“Episode 1: It Only Gets Better”
https://www.yevo43.com/episode-1-it-only-gets-better/
03:44 – Marsden: “Remember we don’t use any artificial flavors or preservatives. You know, it’s not like we’re making Oreos here. And as much as we try, sometimes the flavors are not always exactly the same. That we can’t help, but we go way out of our ways to make sure it all becomes a really good tasting product…We’re trying to put things together that no one has ever done.”
No one has ever done it before for good reason. A single 300-calorie serving of food becomes virtually inedible when you try to pump a half-day supply of exogenous protein, nutrient additives, and fishy oils into it, and there’s no good reason for trying to do so. Also, Chip’s admission that the products do not have consistency of flavor is remarkable.
04:23 – Chip discusses how the company tried to improve the flavor of their original oatmeal and rice products, but it seems that their distributors don’t agree that it tastes better now (or that it was ever palatable to begin with).
05:26 – Chip describes how the products were reformulated because the old versions stunk as a result of oxidation of proteins and fats.
08:58 – Chip talks about how the choline in Yevo also stinks.
10:15 – Marsden: “For us, humans need these 43 essential nutrients and there’s no hiding it – they don’t taste great — and we do our best job that we possibly can to deliver them every single time in a wonderful tasting, easy to use, easy to prepare product. Alright? And by the way, if you’re still not satisfied, we’re happy to replace this product with our no-sugar added versions, okay?”
So Chip repeatedly admits that the products stink for a variety of reasons and that “they don’t taste great”, but nonetheless tries to reassure distributors that the company is doing their “best” to mask the bad taste and smell. Adding insult to injury (but much to my amusement), he offers distributors, unsatisfied with the current products’ taste, replacement with sugar-free versions, which presumably would taste even worse.
13:14 – Marsden: “For those that do like sugar, a sweet tasting product, we are coming out with a no-sugar added product and this one uses, you know, something that I actually brought to the table. And it’s a product called acesulfame potassium. It’s also known as ACE-K. Now, most people don’t know this and it’s actually an important thing to know – but it’s a potassium salt. And I looked at it as twofold: it provides dual functionality to our products because it actually can provide potassium, which is important for us because we want to hit as much potassium from any source we possibly can, every chance we get. But it also provides a little sweetness because this potassium salt’s actually sweet. It’s been studied for years; it’s actually a really nice product. And people like world-renowned nutrition scientist Dr. Susan Roberts we work with at Tufts actually thinks it’s a great product.”
An alleged endorsement of ACE-K from someone who Yevo pays is hardly reassuring. Not everyone is convinced that ACE-K is nice or that it has been adequately researched. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1570055/pdf/ehp0114-a0516a.pdf
https://www.cspinet.org/reports/chemcuisine.htm#acesulfamek
http://www.medicinenet.com/artificial_sweeteners/page10.htm
Regardless, inclusion of this synthetic and at least somewhat controversial ingredient is totally at odds with Yevo’s paper-thin marketing premise that today’s foods are overly processed and unhealthy. Interestingly, the product label for Yevo’s no-sugar added oatmeal does not list acesulfame potassium/ACE-K as an ingredient. So either they have since reformulated the product yet again, or they are mislabeling the existing product by not disclosing an accurate list of ingredients.
https://myyevo.com/uploads/global/Oats%20No%20Sugar%20Nutrient%20Fact%20Panel.pdf
In fact, the inclusion of ACE-K is not only at odds with the company’s broader marketing concept, but also specifically contradicts Chip’s claim at 03:44 when he said “remember we don’t use any artificial flavors.” Seems that Chip failed to remember that in fact they do use artificial flavorings – ACE-K is a completely synthetic sweetener (developed in the labs of Hoechst AG chemical company in Germany in 1967). And this memory failing wasn’t a one-time accident either. He repeated the same “no artificial flavoring” statement in this promotional video (where he also repeats the lie about the product tasting good):
02:34 – Marsden: “Here’s some of the important things; that it’s no GMO, there’s no sugar added, there’s no bad stuff like artificial flavoring, artificial colors. But the most important thing is it tastes good.”
And just for the record, Chip’s claim that we need to get “as much potassium from any source we possibly can, every chance we get” is just too stupid for words; e.g., potassium chloride is an innocuous salt, potassium sorbate is a crappy preservative; potassium cyanide is a lethal poison. The sources of potassium must in fact be highly selective. But Chip doesn’t care; his only goal is to keep his lips moving for as long as he can regardless of whether or not the words he utters have any validity.
Getting back to the issue of the bad smell and taste of Yevo’s products, another recording from around the time that EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder was launched features Marsden saying the following:
7:06 – Marsden: “It is by far, one of the best tasting smoothies on the marketplace. It was developed to be made with only water but it can be made any way you like it. Take me for example, I make mine with chocolate soy milk, peanut butter and a banana.”
https://www.yevo43.com/episode-3-the-serious-the-not-so-serious-and-sharing-the-yevo-love/
It’s clearly not one of the best tasting smoothies on the market, based on Marsden’s other accounts of all the problems with smell and taste. It wouldn’t even make the top 1000 list, but it apparently could win the award for the foulest smelling/tasting smoothie impersonator on the market. What Yevo is offering is clearly not a smoothie, because it has no milk, fruit, yogurt, etc., but rather something that should rightly be called a “fortified beverage powder”. It’s ironic that even Chip can’t stomach the taste of the product on its own, as he admits that he can’t choke it down without adding chocolate soy milk, peanut butter, and banana.
I looked up Acesulfame Potassium (ACE-K) on Wikipedia and found this quote notable: “Kraft Foods has patented the use of sodium ferulate to mask acesulfame’s aftertaste.” (Source)
I often avoid talking about taste because that’s subjective. However, the aftertaste is so bad that a company (Kraft) has patented an additive to mask it… that’s objective proof. I haven’t had a chance to listen to the whole talk, but it would be notable if he doesn’t mention licensing the patent from Kraft.
Here’s a protein supplement drink mix (Isopure) that’s analogous to Yevo’s not-a-smoothie mix but is a far better value. It provides 50 g protein per 62-g serving (40% more than Yevo’s 30 g); has 50% RDA of a wide range of vitamins and minerals; includes glutamine (Yevo doesn’t); is lower in calories (210 vs 230 cal), carbs (0 vs 10 g), fat (1 g vs 10 g), and saturated fat (0.5 g vs 3 g); and comes from a manufacturer that’s very widely respected among athletes and has a 5-star rating (Yevo is not a widely respected manufacturer and by all accounts their products could never get an overall 5-star rating based on their price and bad smell/taste). Yevo includes less than 8 cents worth of bad smelling/tasting omega-3 FAs (800 mg non-USP grade), whereas Isopure does not contain any omega-3s.
http://www.allstarhealth.com/de_p_ref/712/pla712/NATURES_BEST_Isopure_Creamy_Vanilla.htm
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png
Overall, Isopure’s product is far superior to Yevo’s not-a-smoothie powder and it retails for well below half the price ($1.63 vs $3.53 per serving, shipping costs extra for both). Even at the lowest distributor discount price and shipping factored in (free on auto-ship with Yevo, $5.95 for Isopure), Yevo comes in at $2.50 per serving vs $1.75 for Isopure – a 43% higher price.
Notice also that even though these products contain similar ingredients and both are reconstituted in water, the honest marketing folks at Isopure have the good sense to call their product a “protein supplement” rather than calling it a “smoothie” the way Yevo does, despite the fact that EN-43 bears no resemblance whatsoever to anything even remotely smoothie-like. That’s but one of the many differences between highly respected retail manufacturers and the desperate snakeoil salesmen who plug ripoff MLM products.
Ironically Alex Severn referenced an article that listed competing products and Isopure was one of them.
Let’s shift our attention now to “43 For Kids”, an organization that seems to be masquerading as a charity that’s providing food aid to starving children globally. Their mission statement is as follows:
“Our Mission: 43 For Kids. Building healthy minds and bodies through life-changing nutrition.
We’re 43 For Kids, a foundation focused on a global crisis: children’s lives and health are being adversely affected from not getting proper nutrition. We provide the 43 nutrients essential for healthy growth, all in one food. And we measure the effects of our work through scientific studies to understand and confirm the outcomes that our efforts make. Our first market is the U.S. We will then quickly move to Mexico, South Korea and Japan – and then globally as the Yevo business expands.”
http://43forkids.org/our-mission/
Not only is that a vague mission statement but, amazingly, their website provides no information about donations/funding or tax-exempt status; no financial (e.g., IRS-990 forms) or management/personnel information; and no specific details about current/planned projects. Nor, does the site disclose any funding connection with Yevo. It’s also odd that they would use the word “market” in connection with what implied to be “charitable” activities; but then again, not at all that surprising given the source.
This blurb from the 43 For Kids website gives the impression that they are fighting against malnutrition and famine in third-world countries.
“Malnutrition is an underlying cause of death of over 2.6 million children each year – 1/3 of child deaths globally.1 in 4 of the world’s children are stunted, in developing countries this is as high as 1 in 3. Bodies fail to develop as a result of this malnutrition. Under nutrition accounts for 11% of the global burden of disease and is considered the number one risk to health worldwide.”
http://43forkids.org/facts
For the record, 43 For Kids does not appear to be a registered non-profit organization — nothing comes up under that name in a Guidestar search.
http://www.guidestar.org/AdvancedSearch.aspx
Here the real kicker — the Yevo website provides some additional (but vague) details about the funding of 43 For Kids that were absent from the actual 43 For Kids website.
“Yevo pays for 100% of staff expenses so 100% of the donations go to kids who need essential nutrients. We donate 1 essential nutrient meal to kids charities for every 10 Yevo meals sold. Many distributors commit a portion of their commissions to 43 for Kids, further building the reach of our organization.”
https://www.yevo43.com/our-battle/child-development/
A quick check of the domain registration for 34forkids.org shows that it’s registered to Eugene Tipps (Chief Operating Officer) care of Yevo and Food Matters, LLC (a company registered to Yevo).
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=43forkids.org
http://www.trademarkia.com/yevo-86461364.html
Jodi Unruh’s also had a novel detail about 43 For Kids that wasn’t mentioned on the latter’s website or on Yevo’s website:
“This summer 43 for Kids will team up with Harvard and Tufts University to provide children in the Boston School district and their families with two Yevo meals a day, which will provide all of them with 100% of daily 43 essential nutrients. Another group of families will then be provided with two basic meals a day. This three month study will then document the differences the families who were getting the 43 essential nutrients every day experienced in comparison to the other families who were not receiving them. And the great news is that every time any of us purchase a Yevo meal–a percentage of that purchase will benefit this new charity for children.”
http://www.jodiunruh.com/blog/yevo-international-announces-new-foundation-to-feed-hungry-kids-43-for-kids
That’s literally all that’s out there detailing the activities of the organization. What are we to make of it all? That Yevo is covertly running and funding 43 For Kids, which is apparently not a non-profit, and using it to extract donations from their distributors and to fund an alleged research project on Yevo products involving Harvard and Tufts, the details of which appear nowhere except on Judi Unruh’s website? That the company’s dubious claim that they are donating “1 essential nutrient meal to kids charities for every 10 Yevo meals sold” (i.e., 10% of sales??? BS!!) would, in the best case scenario, amount to donating product back to themselves to fund their own research/marketing activities? That a bunch of con artists are resorting to the long-standing snakeoil MLM tradition (e.g., Monavies More Project, Juice Plus Children’s Research Foundation, Mannatech’s Mannrelief, etc.) of exploiting images of doe-eyed hungry children to create a false image of altruism, and ultimately, drive recruitment and sales (like in the pandering schmaltzy Yevo video below)?
http://www.themoreproject.org/
http://www.childrenshealthstudy.com/juiceplus_childrenshealth.html
http://www.mannarelief.org/index.cfm?id=3ae11bd1-9b5a-489d-b92608c60927841a&programs.html
With all that in mind, I found this statement from the 43 For Kids website to be particularly galling:
“We focus on children ages 5+.”
http://43forkids.org/how
It’s bad enough when they inflict appalling scams like this on adults, but trying to rope 5 year-olds into consuming their unhealthy processed powdered $hit supplements-masquerading-as-food is truly unforgivable.
To follow-up on my previous comment about the inclusion of the artificial sweetener acesulfame potassium (ACE-K) in Yevo products, I dug up a few more relevant statements from Chip Marsland (a January 2015 distributor presentation — Episode 6: Sugar, Sweeteners and AceK) and from Yevo’s FAQs:
09:34 – Marsland: “My taste focus zeroed on ACE-K it was truly the safest bet in the bunch. So we went for a sweetener, and now have it in several products at Yevo you can buy anytime.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMchTNSylDQ
FAQ: “Why does Yevo use the sweet potassium salt acesulfame potassium, or Ace K, in its products?”
FAQ: “Are there any artificial flavors, colors or preservatives in Yevo foods? No. Yevo does not use artificial flavors, colors or preservatives in any of its products… Our food contains no Bad Stuff such as…artificial flavors…”
FAQ: “Why is your ingredient list so long? By law, the FDA requires that everything included in a packaged food be listed on its label.”
https://www.yevo43.com/more_about_yevo/#13
So what does this all add up to?
(1) Yevo’s FAQ’s and Marsland’s statements claim that ACE-K is used in Yevo products;
(2) Despite the fact that AEC-K is an artificial flavoring agent (i.e. a sweetener), Marsland and Yevo’s FAQ falsely claim that their products contain no “bad stuff” including “artificial flavors”;
(3) Yevo’s FAQs acknowledge that the FDA requires all ingredients to be included on the food product label;
(4) not one of Yevo’s product labels online (e.g., EN-43 smoothie, no-sugar added oatmeal) list ACE-K as an ingredient.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png
https://myyevo.com/uploads/global/Oats%20No%20Sugar%20Nutrient%20Fact%20Panel.pdf
http://food.myyevo.com/shop/
By deduction, Yevo is either lying when they say that they add ACE-K to their products or lying on their product label by failing to identify ACE-K as an ingredient.
The following are some examples from Yevo’s FAQs showing how they are not-so-subtly trying to steer people away from real, truly healthy foods in lieu of Yevo’s scandalously overpriced over-processed mutant Frankenfood powders.
FAQ: “Why not just eat whole foods?…proponents of eating only whole foods miss the following points…Have a look at what whole foods you’d have to eat in one day to satisfy 100 percent of your 43 essential nutrient needs. Don’t forget: you’ll have to go shopping, weigh out the right amounts of each food, cook everything and clean up. Most of these foods don’t go together very well, either, so you probably won’t like what you have to eat…While eating only “whole foods” is a romantic notion, it is not a solution to the global nutrient deficit crisis.”
FAQ: “Are Yevo foods certified organic? Organic is not our battle…of course we also provide the 43 essential nutrients your body and mind require, which is much more important to your health than whether or not a food is labeled as organic.”
FAQ: “Why not farm-to-table?…Farm to table is not a solution, but rather a fad… Yevo’s solution is a simple means to feed millions, and doesn’t put any further strain the Earth’s resources.”
FAQ: “Why not just fresh fruits and vegetables?…The nutrient profile of the fruits and vegetables grown today is incomplete… In addition, we love Mother Earth, and we want to protect her. When we buy fresh produce it all too often spoils before it gets eaten. As much as half of all the fresh fruits and vegetables grown throughout the world end up rotten and thrown in landfills.
FAQ: “How is Yevo environmentally friendly?…One of the worst environmental issues is the amount of wasted vegetables and fruits…Yevo believes that reducing waste is the best solution…Yevo is trying to solve these incredibly important and complex environmental issues. We have virtually zero food waste”
FAQ: “Are Yevo’s products all natural? There is no real meaning of the term “all natural” — it is just a clever marketing ploy. Consumers seeking healthier foods are drawn to products labeled with all natural claims, erroneously thinking these foods must be better (and healthier) than other foods. But “all natural” is a made-up marketing phrase designed to promote products as healthy, when in fact they usually are no more nutritionally complete than other processed foods…Yevo supplements its foods with nutrients, vitamin and minerals because “natural” foods do not have enough of vitamins and minerals to provide the required levels of the 43 essential nutrients.”
FAQ: “Does it matter if Yevo uses synthetic or natural sources of vitamin and minerals? There is no “natural” or “synthetic” when it comes to vitamins and minerals — the source is immaterial…Our bodies absorb all forms of vitamins and minerals.”
FAQ: “How are Yevo foods made? Our foods are unique because they are made utilizing essential nutrients as the “base”.”
So did you get all that? Eating “whole foods” is just a delusional “romantic” notion — they are too inconvenient, “don’t go well together” and don’t have enough nutrients, according to Yevo. How about organic foods? Nah, never mind — not important and it’s “not Yevo’s battle”. Farm-to table? Nope, Yevo says it’s just a “fad”. All natural? Just a marketing ploy, according to Yevo, and natural foods are bereft of nutrients. Fruits and vegetables? Screw them — they’re environmentally catastrophic, raping Mother Earth, and don’t have enough nutrients, says Yevo. Basing your products on completely synthetic ingredients though (and artificial sweeteners like ACE-K)? A-OK in Yevo’s book.
It’s unforgivable that they are marketing their synthetic nutrient supplements (which is all the EN-43 smoothie powder essentially is — not food) by negative campaigning against whole, natural, organic foods and fruit/vegetables, but the idea that their crap is more environmentally friendly than fruits and vegetables on the basis that it doesn’t contribute to food waste is truly absurd. If Yevo products don’t contribute to food waste, it’s only because they are not actually food. Furthermore, in all likelihood, Yevo’s products probably routinely end up in landfills because they border on inedibility, and a lot will also sit unopened in the garages of distributors who got duped into buying the products to qualify for MLM commissions.
Vogel, is it worth covering the 43 “essential” nutrients themselves? Isn’t one of them just water? It seems like this might be what they are using: https://www.yevo43.com/what-are-the-yevo-43-essential-nutrients-and-how-were-they-determined/.
It seems that there’s no “nutrient crisis” in the United States according to the extensive scientific research here: Enough Is Enough: Stop Wasting Money on Vitamin and Mineral Supplements.
Just finished sifting through a particularly misleading Yevo pitch presentation by distributor Dani Walker from Oregon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb3Yq_yHWPI
She’s apparently not a low-level distributor either, as she claims to be on the Presidential Advisory Committee for YEVO.
http://foodbiz43.com/yevo-leaders/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniwalkerlive
Below are key excerpts from Dani’s deceptive sales pitch:
00:33 – “You’re going to hear from Peter Castleman, the visionary behind this mission, the man who has been dreaming about this for 20 years. He’s been following the trend of bad food with Big Food and Big Pharma for 20 years…he’s also seen the rise in chronic illness as we all have. The CDC states that 70% of Americans alone struggle with at least one chronic disease, and these diseases are the most preventable. Well what can we do to prevent them? What is the key to helping prevent our children from struggling with diabetes and heart attacks and chronic illnesses like cancer and arthritis and asthma and autism, and list goes on and on? It’s a simple solution and that is start feeding our bodies those 43 essential nutrients that they need…well guess what guys – that’s what Yevo is.
Dani’s marketing claim above is quite explicitly saying that Yevo products prevent chronic diseases, and that claim is both false and illegal. She even doubles down on it later in the presentation:
03:44 – “Yevo is setting themselves apart…providing nutrient dense low calorie meals for busy people like you and I…trying to change and prevent chronic illness in a massive way across the globe.”
Moving on, the following claim was a particularly fun one to debunk.
03:09 – “Some things you may not know about the company. Number 1, Nutrient Foods is in Reno Nevada. It’s a hundred thousand square foot amazing manufacturing facility that I had the opportunity to tour with a group of really committed team members with Team Vision last week. We go to see where the foods are made; we go to see the cold baked process which is a patented process that only Yevo uses of using the only piece of equipment like this in the United States and possibly the world.”
Naifs like Dani and the goobers that run Yevo don’t realize that people have the means to investigate the validity of claims like these. Turns out that there is quite a rich evidence trail showing both the type and source of equipment that’s used to make Yevo products. These shipping waybills dated February 2015 indicate that Nutrient Foods (the parent company of Yevo) purchased ordinary freeze-drying equipment via two suppliers: Yantai True Cold Chain Company in China and High Dream Machinery LLC in Texas.
https://panjiva.com/Nutrient-Foods-Llc/36832726
https://www.importgenius.com/importers/nutrient-foods-llc
http://www.truecold-chain.com/
http://www.hdmachinery.net/
There suppliers do not provide equipment exclusively to Nutrient Foods LLC; rather they sell equipment to anyone who wants to purchase it. It’s not unusual equipment either, but rather the same type of mundane equipment that is commonly used for freeze drying by many manufacturers of dried food products. Furthermore, the elusive patent for “cold baking” that Dani referred to appears to in fact be nothing more than a trademarked name, rather than a patented manufacturing process.
https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/nutrient-foods-llc-2965509/
I’ll leave it to the reader to sift through the remainder of Dani’s brain-meltingly stupid sales pitch. But before closing this chapter, it’s worth highlighting one more of Dani’s more over-top claims.
09:01 – “I support Phillip Morris every time I buy Kraft. So do you…do you really think those big food companies care about our health. Just read the ingredients label and the answer, you’ll get your answer. These are fake, dead, highly-processed, highly-heated CANCER CAUSING FOODS – ITS IS PROVEN.”
Hmmm. Keep that up and Yevo won’t survive the year. A corporation like Kraft, and their amply-staffed legal department, might have a bit of an issue with a bimbo representative from another food company stating that Kraft’s foods have been proven to cause cancer. It’s a false claim, obviously, but the irony is that what Yevo is selling – highly processed powdered foods with vitamin fortification – is antithetical to the fruit- and vegetable-rich whole food-based diet that nutritionists recommend for optimal health.
Philip Morris (Altria) and Kraft split years ago. From Wikipedia, “On January 27, 2003, Philip Morris Companies Inc. changed its name to Altria Group, Inc. On March 30, 2007, a spin-off of Kraft Foods Inc subsidiary (publicly traded since 2001) was concluded through distribution of the remaining stake of shares (88.1%) to Altria shareholders. As a result, Altria no longer holds any interest in Kraft Foods.“
Lazy Man said: Vogel, is it worth covering the 43 “essential” nutrients themselves? Isn’t one of them just water? It seems like this might be what they are using.”
Sure, let’s dive into the “43 Essential Nutrients” marketing spiel that Yevo invented out of thin air. They claim the following:
“The 43 essential nutrients include: 14 vitamins, 14 minerals, 2 essential fatty acids, 12 essential amino acids, and water, which is added to Yevo products, at preparation. But how did we select these 43 essential nutrients? We at Yevo didn’t just make up the 43 Essential Nutrients. Rather, we consulted worldwide, authoritative research organizations and the most highly regarded book on nutrition: The World Health Organization (WHO), The Institute of Medicine (IOM), Modern Nutrition in Disease”
This is the full list that Yevo provides, which in addition to water, adds up to 43 nutrients:
14 Vitamins: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Thiamin (B1), Vitamin B12, Biotin (B7), Riboflavin (B2), Niacin (B3), Folate (B9), Vitamin B6, Panthothenic Acid (B5), choline.
14 Minerals: Calcium, Phosphorus, Magnesium, Iron, Iodine, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Chromium, Manganese, Molybdenum, Sodium, Chloride, Potassium.
12 Essential Amino Acids: Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine, Arginine, Lysine, Methionine, Cysteine, Phenylalanine, Tyrosine, Tryptophan, Threonine, Histidine.
2 Essential Fatty Acids: Omega-3, Omega-6
https://www.yevo43.com/the-43-essential-nutrients/
They claim that “list of 43 Essential Nutrients was determined by the World Health Organization and the Institute of Medicine” and “Yevo didn’t just make up” the list, but these claims are false. Neither WHO nor IOM ever compiled a list of “43 Essential Nutrients”, nor have they ever even referred to the phrase “43 Essential Nutrients”. Rather, Yevo invented this list on their own based on data that they cobbled together (and misconstrued as I show below) from sources like WHO, IOM, etc,
Secondly, Yevo claims that each serving of their products “provides the 43 essential nutrients your body needs to grow, heal and live.”
http://foodbiz43.com/
But this too is false. One of the 43 essential nutrients on Yevo’s list is water, which the products do not provide because they are dry powders (the water must be added by the consumer). So right off the bat, we can see that Yevo would only provide 42 of those 43 allegedly “essential” nutrients (and of those 42, a serving of Yevo generally provides amounts far below the recommended daily intake and far lower than the amounts provided by a 3-cent name brand multivitamin (as shown in detail below).
The most glaring error in Yevo’s list is that there are in fact only 9 recognized “essential” amino acids (phenylalanine, valine, threonine, tryptophan, methionine, leucine, isoleucine, lysine, and histidine) — not 12 as Yevo claims.
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002222.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid
Among Yevo’s list are 3 amino acid that are misclassified as “essential”: i.e., arginine, cysteine, and tyrosine, when in fact these 3 amino acids are among a group of 6 amino acids (7 according to WHO) that are classified as “conditionally indispensable” amino acids; the others, which Yevo does not include in its list, are glutamine (often used as a supplement by weight lifters), proline, glycine, and taurine (the latter, according to WHO).
http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/sites/fnic.nal.usda.gov/files/uploads/DRIEssentialGuideNutReq.pdf
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/43411/1/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1
So now that we have established that Yevo’s “43 Essential Nutrients” is a flawed and misleading concept, let’s focus on how much of those allegedly “essential” nutrients Yevo actually provides. When I did the analysis of ingredient amounts, I was surprised to find out that a serving of Yevo’s EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder provides only about a third of the RDA for more than 20 of its ingredients. Worse still, an 8-cent Centrum tab provides significantly greater amounts of those nutrients and a much wider variety of nutrients overall. Below is the comparison of Yevo vs Centrum Silver.
http://www.centrum.com/whats-inside/ingredients
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Centrum-Silver-Multivitamin-Multimineral-Supplement-Tablets-220-count/23599936
1. Vitamin A: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 50%
2. Vitamin C: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
3. Vitamin D: Yevo = 40%; Centrum = 250%
4. Vitamin E: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 167%
5. Vitamin K: Yevo = 40%; Centrum = 38%
6. Vitamin B6: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 150%
7. Vitamin B12: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 417%
8. Riboflavin: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
9. Pantothenate: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
10. Thiamine: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
11. Niacin: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
12. Folate: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
13. Biotin: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 10%Calcium: Yevo = 50%; Centrum = 22%
14. Choline: Yevo = 34%; Centrum = 0%
15. Iodine: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
16. Zinc: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 73%
17. Copper: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 25%
18. Chromium: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 42%
19. Chloride: Yevo = 8%; Centrum = 2%
20. Iron: Yevo = 60%; Centrum = 0%
21. Phosphorus: Yevo = 45%; Centrum = 2%
22. Magnesium: Yevo = 40%; Centrum = 13%
23. Selenium: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 27%
24. Manganese: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 115%
25. Molybdenum: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 60%
26. Potassium: Yevo = 0%; Centrum = 2%
27. Nickel: Yevo = 0 ug; Centrum = 5 ug
28. Silicon: Yevo = 0 mg; Centrum = 2 mg
29. Vanadium: Yevo = 0 ug; Centrum = 10 ug
30. Lutein: Yevo = 0 ug; Centrum = 250 ug
31. Lycopene: Yevo = 0 ug; Centrum = 300 ug
As you can see, Yevo get its ass kicked by Centrum with respect to 20 of these 32 nutrients (vitamins A, C, D, E, B6, B12, riboflavin, pantothenate, thiamine, niacin, folate, iodine, zinc, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, silicon, vanadium, lutein, and lycopene), and Centrum lists 6 nutrients that are absent altogether from Yevo (potassium, nickel, silicon, vanadium, lutein, and lycopene). For 4 of the ingredients, the amounts were a virtual tie (i.e., vitamin K, copper, chromium, and selenium). Yevo offers more of only 7 ingredients (calcium, chloride, iron, biotin, phosphorus, magnesium, and choline), only 2 of which are absent altogether from Centrum (iron and choline). However, most of the nutrients that Yevo has more of relative to Centrum are dirt cheap minerals and among the easiest to get from the diet — e.g., calcium, chloride, phosphorus, and magnesium – and Yevo essentially uses these as bulk fillers, with the difference in dry weight relative to Centrum amounting to over 1 g of these cheap minerals.
It also makes no sense to offer all of this unpalatable shit mixed into a bad tasting low-grade processed food powder that can barely be choked down without retching, when consumers can instead take a taste-free caplet, with a much better price and overall nutrient profile, along with a normal meal of one’s own choosing. What Yevo is offering is not a convenience; it’s the ultimate inconvenience.
So clearly, products like Boost, Isopure, USP-grade omega FA supplements, and Centrum offer far better value and reliability than Yevo’s products. I’d say the highest-quality alternative combination would be 30 g (the same amount as in Yevo) of a very-high quality clean whey protein powder like Isopure (added to a whole fruit smoothie for example), which would cost about $1.06 and is much better than what’s in Yevo (and provides all essential amino acids); a USP-grade omega-3 supplement, which costs less than 8 cents for a higher grade than what Yevo is offering; and an 8-cent Centrum Silver for the vitamins and minerals.
http://www.professionalsupplementcenter.com/Natrol-Omega-3-Fish-Oil-Lemon-1200-mg.htm
http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-232402-nature-s-best-isopure-perfect-zero-carb-unflavored-3-lbs
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Centrum-Silver-Multivitamin-Multimineral-Supplement-Tablets-220-count/23599936
Total cost is under $1.22 and the combination is cleaner, far more nutritious, and can be consumed with any diet, but ideally one consisting of healthy whole foods (and lots of fruits/vegetables/whole grains), rather than having to consume those same nutrients in the form of Yevo’s gross shitty-tasting processed food powders like rice gruel and alfredo sauce, which happen to be sold by disreputable pyramid scheme scammers who probably care as much about your welfare as Metabolife (Yevo CEO David Brown’s old company) did about the customers they injured and killed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolife
Lazy Man said: Vogel, is it worth covering the 43 “essential” nutrients themselves? Isn’t one of them just water? It seems like this might be what they are using.”
Sure, let’s dive into the “43 Essential Nutrients” marketing spiel that Yevo invented out of thin air. They claim the following:
“The 43 essential nutrients include: 14 vitamins, 14 minerals, 2 essential fatty acids, 12 essential amino acids, and water, which is added to Yevo products, at preparation. But how did we select these 43 essential nutrients? We at Yevo didn’t just make up the 43 Essential Nutrients. Rather, we consulted worldwide, authoritative research organizations and the most highly regarded book on nutrition: The World Health Organization (WHO), The Institute of Medicine (IOM), Modern Nutrition in Disease”
This is the full list that Yevo provides, which in addition to water, adds up to 43 nutrients:
14 Vitamins: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Vitamin K, Thiamin (B1), Vitamin B12, Biotin (B7), Riboflavin (B2), Niacin (B3), Folate (B9), Vitamin B6, Panthothenic Acid (B5), choline.
14 Minerals: Calcium, Phosphorus, Magnesium, Iron, Iodine, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Chromium, Manganese, Molybdenum, Sodium, Chloride, Potassium.
12 Essential Amino Acids: Leucine, Isoleucine, Valine, Arginine, Lysine, Methionine, Cysteine, Phenylalanine, Tyrosine, Tryptophan, Threonine, Histidine.
2 Essential Fatty Acids: Omega-3, Omega-6
https://www.yevo43.com/the-43-essential-nutrients/
They claim that “list of 43 Essential Nutrients was determined by the World Health Organization and the Institute of Medicine” and “Yevo didn’t just make up” the list, but these claims are false. Neither WHO nor IOM ever compiled a list of “43 Essential Nutrients”, nor have they ever even referred to the phrase “43 Essential Nutrients”. Rather, Yevo invented this list on their own based on data that they cobbled together (and misconstrued as I show below) from sources like WHO, IOM, etc,
Secondly, Yevo claims that each serving of their products “provides the 43 essential nutrients your body needs to grow, heal and live.”
http://foodbiz43.com/
But this too is false. One of the 43 essential nutrients on Yevo’s list is water, which the products do not provide because they are dry powders (the water must be added by the consumer). So right off the bat, we can see that Yevo would only provide 42 of those 43 allegedly “essential” nutrients (and of those 42, a serving of Yevo generally provides amounts far below the recommended daily intake and far lower than the amounts provided by a 3-cent name brand multivitamin (as shown in detail below).
The most glaring error in Yevo’s list is that there are in fact only 9 recognized “essential” amino acids (phenylalanine, valine, threonine, tryptophan, methionine, leucine, isoleucine, lysine, and histidine) — not 12 as Yevo claims.
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002222.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid
Among Yevo’s list are 3 amino acid that are misclassified as “essential”: i.e., arginine, cysteine, and tyrosine, when in fact these 3 amino acids are among a group of 6 amino acids (7 according to WHO) that are classified as “conditionally indispensable” amino acids; the others, which Yevo does not include in its list, are glutamine (often used as a supplement by weight lifters), proline, glycine, and taurine (the latter, according to WHO).
http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/sites/fnic.nal.usda.gov/files/uploads/DRIEssentialGuideNutReq.pdf
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/43411/1/WHO_TRS_935_eng.pdf?ua=1
So now that we have established that Yevo’s “43 Essential Nutrients” is a flawed and misleading concept, let’s focus on how much of those allegedly “essential” nutrients Yevo actually provides. When I did the analysis of ingredient amounts, I was surprised to find out that a serving of Yevo’s EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder provides only about a third of the RDA for more than 20 of its ingredients. Worse still, an 8-cent Centrum tab provides significantly greater amounts of those nutrients and a much wider variety of nutrients overall. Below is the comparison of Yevo vs Centrum Silver.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png
http://www.centrum.com/whats-inside/ingredients
1. Vitamin A: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 50%
2. Vitamin C: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
3. Vitamin D: Yevo = 40%; Centrum = 250%
4. Vitamin E: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 167%
5. Vitamin K: Yevo = 40%; Centrum = 38%
6. Vitamin B6: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 150%
7. Vitamin B12: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 417%
8. Riboflavin: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
9. Pantothenate: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
10. Thiamine: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
11. Niacin: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
12. Folate: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
13. Biotin: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 10%
14. Calcium: Yevo = 50%; Centrum = 22%
15. Choline: Yevo = 34%; Centrum = 0%
16. Iodine: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 100%
17. Zinc: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 73%
18. Copper: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 25%
19. Chromium: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 42%
20. Chloride: Yevo = 8%; Centrum = 2%
21. Iron: Yevo = 60%; Centrum = 0%
22. Phosphorus: Yevo = 45%; Centrum = 2%
23. Magnesium: Yevo = 40%; Centrum = 13%
24. Selenium: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 27%
25. Manganese: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 115%
26. Molybdenum: Yevo = 35%; Centrum = 60%
27. Potassium: Yevo = 0%; Centrum = 2%
28. Nickel: Yevo = 0 ug; Centrum = 5 ug
29. Silicon: Yevo = 0 mg; Centrum = 2 mg
30. Vanadium: Yevo = 0 ug; Centrum = 10 ug
31. Lutein: Yevo = 0 ug; Centrum = 250 ug
32. Lycopene: Yevo = 0 ug; Centrum = 300 ug
As you can see, Yevo get its ass kicked by Centrum with respect to 20 of these 32 nutrients (vitamins A, C, D, E, B6, B12, riboflavin, pantothenate, thiamine, niacin, folate, iodine, zinc, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, silicon, vanadium, lutein, and lycopene), and Centrum lists 6 nutrients that are absent altogether from Yevo (potassium, nickel, silicon, vanadium, lutein, and lycopene). For 4 of the ingredients, the amounts were a virtual tie (i.e., vitamin K, copper, chromium, and selenium). Yevo offers more of only 7 ingredients (calcium, chloride, iron, biotin, phosphorus, magnesium, and choline), only 2 of which are absent altogether from Centrum (iron and choline). However, most of the nutrients that Yevo has more of relative to Centrum are dirt cheap minerals and among the easiest to get from the diet — e.g., calcium, chloride, phosphorus, and magnesium – and Yevo essentially uses these as bulk fillers, with the difference in dry weight relative to Centrum amounting to over 1 g of these cheap minerals.
It also makes no sense to offer all of this unpalatable shit mixed into a bad tasting low-grade processed food powder that can barely be choked down without retching, when consumers can instead take a taste-free caplet, with a much better price and overall nutrient profile, along with a normal meal of one’s own choosing. What Yevo is offering is not a convenience; it’s the ultimate inconvenience.
So clearly, products like Boost, Isopure, USP-grade omega FA supplements, and Centrum offer far better value and reliability than Yevo’s products. I’d say the highest-quality alternative combination would be 30 g (the same amount as in Yevo) of a very-high quality clean whey protein powder like Isopure (added to a whole fruit smoothie for example), which would cost about $1.06 and is much better than what’s in Yevo (and provides all essential amino acids); a USP-grade omega-3 supplement, which costs less than 8 cents for a higher grade than what Yevo is offering; and an 8-cent Centrum Silver for the vitamins and minerals.
http://www.professionalsupplementcenter.com/Natrol-Omega-3-Fish-Oil-Lemon-1200-mg.htm
http://www.luckyvitamin.com/p-232402-nature-s-best-isopure-perfect-zero-carb-unflavored-3-lbs
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Centrum-Silver-Multivitamin-Multimineral-Supplement-Tablets-220-count/23599936
Total cost is under $1.22 and the combination is cleaner, far more nutritious, and can be consumed with any diet, but ideally one consisting of healthy whole foods (and lots of fruits/vegetables/whole grains), rather than having to consume those same nutrients in the form of Yevo’s gross shitty-tasting processed food powders like rice gruel and alfredo sauce, which happen to be sold by disreputable pyramid scheme scammers who probably care as much about your welfare as Metabolife (Yevo CEO David Brown’s old company) did about the customers they injured and killed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolife
The two Yevo meals per day that the company recommends represents two meals per day without fruit, vegetables, or whole grains/legumes, but the daily recommended serving requirements for those foods must still be met (because the exogenous nutrients in Yevo are not a substitute). However, after having already consumed two daily meals consisting of Yevo’s shitty powder, the only opportunity to meet those needs would be limited to the one remaining daily meal (plus snacks) – an virtually impossible task. Fruits, vegetables, and legumes/grains have a plethora of chemical constituents that are thought to be important for mediating the well-demonstrated health benefits of a low-fat plant-rich diet; e.g., plant phytochemicals like lycopene, lutein, resveratrol, allicin, sulforaphane, etc., not to mention soluble fiber, which is virtually absent from Yevo products.
This fact is completely ignored in Yevo’s misleading marketing pitch about 43 Essential Nutrients, which if put into practice, would represent a horrendously unhealthy and unjustifiably costly diet.
Vogel, you seem to have a lot of spare time for misconstruing marketing materials, maybe you would enjoy a little research on your favorite go-to multi multivitamin. The complaints about Centrum, by the way, would be echoed in pretty much all tablet form multi vitamins. As far as I’m concerned they are a….scam!
http://www.meghantelpner.com/blog/the-truth-behind-centrum-doing-more-harm-than-good/
Rachel,
Centrum is just one example of a multi-vitamin. That review is very suspect. For example, she says that it’s produced by Pfizer as if that is a negative thing. Pfizer is much, much more reputable than Yevo’s cast of characters using a selling system that appears to be a pyramid scheme according to the FTC guidelines.
She says that the “dosages of most nutrients are negligible.” I’m fairly sure that “dosage” isn’t the correct terminology there. More importantly, since it has much more nutrients than Yevo’s products, we can conclude that Yevo is especially nutrient bare.
Once again, this person recites the rumor that tablets are hard to absorb without citing sources or supporting research.
She then goes into the ingredients and tried to paint Pregelatinized Corn Starch as a negative because “It [is] most likely a genetically modified corn which presents a number of problems for sensitive people.” So she’s speculating what’s in it. Worse, the amount of a binder in a pill is negligible. Seriously, how much of a bad chemical are you going to get in a tiny pill vs. Yevo’s products?
Her tips for how to choose a multivitamin are completely opposite of anything that is recommended by reputable resources. For example, here’s what’s on WebMD by someone with at least a health degree.
In any case, this article isn’t about Centrum. It’s just one example of a smarter choice than Yevo’s products.
First, I want to say I agree with Rachel that Vogel seems to have alot of time on his hands to write the things he does.
I am a Yevo distributor and was also involved in Monavie, so I’m pretty familiar with MLMs. I wouldn’t say I’ve made alot of money working them, but I’ve not done too bad.
I remember reading Lazyman’s blog back when I was more active in Monavie and I recall him saying repeatedly that Monvavie was going to be shut down by the FTC. Similar statements to what he is now making about Yevo actually.
Out of curiosity, I looked on the FTC database for past violations and cases and I don’t see anything in there against Monavie: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/advanced-search
My point for bring up Monavie is that they are a much bigger company than Yevo right now and they didn’t get in trouble with the FTC. What makes you think Yevo will?
I also take exception to all of the “facts” Vogel is posting, as if they are correct. As far as I can tell, he doesn’t seem to be employed or maybe he is retired. He seems to spend most of his time looking up things on the internet and posting here. Who is Vogel to say all of the things he’s posting is factual not his layman’s opinion?
It seems to me that it’s pretty common knowledge that diet effects health. Most of us have probably seen the supersize me movie where the guy created a documentary about eating McDonald’s for a month. There’s also alot common knowledge information out there that our food industry in general is creating foods that are bad for us.
Yevo isn’t the first company to create a product line that attempts to capture foods that are considered by health professionals as a “good diet.” Jenny Craig does similar things with some of their products: http://www.jennycraig.com/site/corporate/news/detail/2601134
Where I’m going with this is that Yevo is putting together food products that are targeted towards the things that are good for us and excludes the things that are bad for us.
I think we can squabble over price all day and post links to ebay or wherever to find things that might be cheaper.
Personally, I really like Yevo’s products. Maybe not all of them, but most I really enjoy eating and they have improved my health since I started replacing a meal a two a day with them.
Susan,
Some people waste their time watching re-runs of Seinfeld. Let’s praise Vogel for contributing something useful with his time.
With regard to the FTC, I misjudged the politics and government funding available. I blindly believed that the FTC actually read consumer complaints and acted on them based on whether they have merit. Unfortunately, this isn’t the case. They have a very small budget for all the things they need to do. There are 1400 MLM/pyramid schemes active and each one gets due process in court. The FTC has to spend millions of it’s budget to even shut one down. For this reason the Former FTC Economist is calling for a Federal Pyramid Scheme Rule.
That said, MonaVie is not a much bigger company than Yevo. MonaVie is out of business. It foreclosed for pennies as the pyramid collapsed on them.
And while the FTC didn’t act on MonaVie, it did act on its carbon-copy Vemma. The FTC halted Vemma alleging it is a pyramid scheme. Vemma is back and running under a new set of rules, but they are doing terribly now that they are forced to run something resembling a legitimate business. They paid out commissions to only 119 people.
Vogel is very good at citing the sources for the facts. If you think they are not factual, challenge him on them. If you do not wish to challenge them, then don’t presume he’s wrong. If you have difficulty discerning what is a sourced fact and what is his opinion, you probably shouldn’t be engaged in any kind of business.
I think that Vogel’s presented a lot of information that shows that Yevo is talking about putting good food products, but isn’t delivering. At the same time, they seem to be discouraging people from eating good foods as Vogel pointed out in the FAQ.
We can only squabble over price all day if someone is going to support $6+ oatmeal. If a gas station was selling $20/gallon gas, you wouldn’t even start to squabble. And yes, if a gas station tried to do such a thing making claims that it will make your car go 20x longer than ordinary gas, I’d certainly be writing about why its a scam.
I don’t see what’s different here.
Rachel said: “Vogel, you seem to have a lot of spare time for misconstruing marketing materials, maybe you would enjoy a little research on your favorite go-to multi multivitamin. The complaints about Centrum, by the way, would be echoed in pretty much all tablet form multi vitamins. As far as I’m concerned they are a….scam!
http://www.meghantelpner.com/blog/the-truth-behind-centrum-doing-more-harm-than-good/#sthash.O2iGsiXU.dpuf”
I’ll preface my reply by pointing out that you presented not even one single example showing that I misconstrued any marketing materials. Secondly, what you’re calling “research” on Centrum is not really research at all. It’s not from a reputable scientific organization or a peer-reviewed journal. Nonetheless, let’s go through it line by line and see if any of it is valid and how it pertains to our discussion about Yevo vs Centrum.
“Centrum is a product produced by the company Pfizer, one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world.”
If anything, being produced by a pharmaceutical company is a plus not a minus. No one has greater expertise or reliability when it comes to formulating compounds for human ingestion. Rachel is surely not foolish enough to suggest that a skeezy MLM supplement company like Yevo is more reliable. As I have pointed out repeatedly, Yevo’s CEO David Brown was formerly CEO of Metabolife, an MLM company started by two meth dealers, which injured and killed people with their supplements, lied about it to the FDA, and saw several of their execs sent to prison. Based on that pedigree, and a lot of other equally valid reasons, it’s impossible to argue that Yevo is more reliable than Pfizer, or that David Brown gives a flying F about your welfare.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolife
“The dosages of most of the nutrients in Centrum are negligible and not even close to therapeutic levels.”
For the vast majority of the nutritional ingredients in Centrum, the dosages meet or exceed the RDA amounts, and they exceed the dosages in Yevo’s products, so this argument fails miserably when comparing Centrum with Yevo. A serving of Yevo fails to deliver the RDA amount of even one nutritional ingredient.
“The forms that the nutrients are provided in are the cheapest and the least absorbable forms.”
First of all, that’s a very general statement with no corroborating examples provided. One is left to wonder which nutrient forms they are referring to. Second, there is no evidence that the nutrient forms in Yevo are any more expensive or more effectively absorbed than the analogous substances in Centrum. If you iwhs to argue to the contrary, you’ll have to put some evidence on the table to back it up.
“Supplements that come in tablet form are often hard to digest and contain binders and fillers (more on this below).”
It’s total BS that they are hard to digest, and not surprisingly, the author provides no citations to support this accusation. A pill dissolving in the GI tract is a phenomena that is so consistent and widely reproducible that it is a a cornerstone of modern pharmacy. As for binders and fillers, so what? For the most they are innocuous inert substances like corn starch, and they are used to improve the dissolution properties of the pill in the GI tract.
“Water-soluble nutrients (vitamin C and the B-vitamins) are either used or excreted within about 4 hours. Thus, a one-a-day multi is completely useless and a sure sign that it is of poor quality.”
Evidence? The author provided none. Even if B and C levels were elevated for only 4 hours per day, that would not make the multivitamin “completely” useless. Besides, no health authorities advise that the levels of any particular nutrient have to be elevated around the clock, nor would this occur with a healthy diet – levels naturally fluctuate throughout the day. More importantly, the amounts of vitamin C and B vitamins in a serving of Yevo only meet 35% of the RDA (vs 100% in Centrum), so even in the best case scenario, Yevo fails woefully. You’d have to choke down 3 servings of Yevo’s crap daily day to meet the RDA for vitamin C and B vitamins.
“Ferrous Fumarate. This form of iron is incredibly constipating.”
BS! If you want to press this argument, you’d have to put evidence on the table that the doses used in Centrum predispose to constipation.
“Pregelatinized Corn Starch. This is used as a binder to hold all of the ingredients together. It most likely a genetically modified corn which presents a number of problems for sensitive people.”
Speculation. There’s no evidence that the corn starch in Centrum is from a GMO source, or that it would pose any health risk even if it did.
“DL-Alpha Tocopherol. This is vitamin E and they are using two forms. The “D” form which is natural and the “L” Form which is synthetic. The “L” form is used to “water-down” the more expensive more bioactive “D” form.”
Epic fail on this argument. It is in fact the exact same form as the D/L form of vitamin E in Yevo.
“BHT. Butylated hydroxyanisole has been shown to be toxic to the liver, thyroid, kidney, lungs, and affecting blood coagulation.(2) BHT can act as a tumour promoter.”
I’m not crazy about BHT either, even in the extremely low amounts added to a pill, but it is an approved preservative. However, an argument like this is just as easy to apply to the ACE-K that Yevo adds to its products. Yes, it is an approved artificial sweetener, but a controversial one that some sources suspect is more dangerous than initially believed. This is no different than the situation with BHT. You can’t have it both ways. If you want to point the finger at BHT, you have to point it at ACE-K as well.
“Gelatin Vegetarians watch out!”
Yevo products contain dairy and milk protein. Not exactly vegetarian friendly either. Besides, vegetarians eat mostly plants, not the mutant crap powder in a pouch that Yevo sells. Be cognizant of your target demographic (poverty-stricken preppers, dolts with bad eating habits, and desperate pyramid schemers).
“Hydrogenated Palm Oil. Hydrogenating any oil turns the oil rancid and makes it into a strong free radical. Free radicals promote cancer and heart disease.”
Incorrect. This individual seems to know very little about free radical biochemistry. Hydrogenating oils does not convert them into free radicals – oxidizing them does. And by Chip Marsland’s own admission (see my previous comment for the quotes), Yevo has a big problems masking the rancidity of the oxidized fats and proteins (and the resulting fishy smell that has been widely reported) in their products. Thus, this argument fails as well.
“Nickelous Sulfate and Tin. I have never come across any nutrition book discussing a nickel or tin deficiency. Have you? We most likely don’t need to supplement it.”
Yes, in fact I have.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6398286
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1702675
Yevo’s marketing of “essential nutrients” is not based on whether or not deficiencies of those nutrients are common. The point is whether the nutrients are essential for optimal health – and both nickel and tin are. It could just as easily be argued that deficiencies of most of the so-called “43 Essential Nutrients” in Yevo are as uncommon as nickel and tin deficiency.
“Sodium Benzoate. A preservative that may cause organ toxicity.”
And is not present in Centrum Silver.
http://www.vitacost.com/centrum-silver-multivitamin-multimineral-adults-50-plus-220-tablets-2
“Talc. Has been shown to cause cancer. (5,6,7)”
Again, it’s an approved binder and there’s no reason to be more concerned about the talc in Centrum than about the ACE-K in Yevo. There is no reliable evidence that oral ingestion of minuscule amounts of talc poses a health risk, and in fact, one of the sources that was cited in the article (#7) was a study on inhaled and intravenously ingested talc, which has no implications whatsoever regarding oral ingestion. Misleading sloppy research to say the least.
“Sodium Aluminosilicate. Used as a food additive for its anti caking effect.”
Fail! Also not present in Centrum Silver.
“I recommend going to a health food store and talking to to a trained health practitioner.”
Since when did health food stores employ “trained health practitioners”?
In summary, there are a lot of incorrect and misleading statements in that wonky article, but more importantly the arguments presented in the article don’t make a case for Yevo at all. And if one prefers to buy a higher-quality more expensive multivitamin in addition to the protein powder and omega-3 supplement I recommended in lieu of Yevo, the combination would still be much higher quality and much less expensive. Ultimately though, I’m not a big proponent of supplementation. I advocate a balanced plant-rich lean whole food diet, as do virtually all of the most knowledgeable authorities on diet and nutrition. Yevo’s crap is the antithesis of that diet – essentially a multivitamin wrapped up in bag of processed low grade crap powder that’s barely reminiscent of what we think of as food.
I’ll close with a general note on preservatives and anti-caking agents. They are used to maintain shelf life and maintain the texture of processed foods during storage. I don’t consume a lot of processed foods, so I generally avoid these compounds, but they do serve a vital purpose. Yevo is advertised as having a ridiculously long 2-5 year shelf. I have grave doubts about whether their products could really have such a long shelf life in the absence of preservatives, but for certain, the products in bulk pouches would tend to spoil very rapidly once opened. You can’t defy the laws of chemistry.
Monavie was victim of a failing common to binary MLMs. They got top heavy, the economy softened, sales slowed, and then they couldn’t pay out the commissions they promised.
It seems to me that you are opposed to any and all MLMs, regardless of what they are selling.
Is this a correct statement?
Susan,
The economy has been on 6 or 7 year bull market. MonaVie was imploding just about the whole time as we can see with Google Trends. I never saw evidence that there really were any significant sales other than to people buying to remain qualified in the scheme. The only sales I saw was from people who had been illegally told it was a medicine for a medical condition (i.e. cancer, autism, etc.)
Please use these comments for Yevo-specific questions or points. If you want to talk about MLMs in general, I have other articles on that. For example Is Every MLM a Scam? would be a good place to address your question.
Susan,
I forgot to add… Don’t forget to thank me for correcting you on MonaVie and giving you the update on the FTC/Vemma ;-).
Susan said: “First, I want to say I agree with Rachel that Vogel seems to have alot (sic) of time on his hands to write the things he does.”
Congrats! That makes you as much of an abrasive ass as Rachel. I hate to have to say that, but it’s apropos. It’s mind boggling that either of you would think that that insipid thought was worth sharing.
Susan said: “I am a Yevo distributor and was also involved in Monavie, so I’m pretty familiar with MLMs. I wouldn’t say I’ve made alot (sic) of money working them, but I’ve not done too bad.”
Ouch! A double whammy of bad judgment. Fooled twice, shame on you!
While it’s easy to anonymously claim that you’ve “not done too bad” with Monavie and Yevo, the statistics indicate that you’ve probably made, at best, less than minimum wage (and that you are using an overly generous definition of “not done too bad”). Regardless, we can’t tell one way or the other unless you put some proof on the table, which you would have done if making a valid point actually mattered to you. I’m betting you’ve actually taken a beating. Monavie went into foreclosure, so whatever effort you spent “building the business” was wasted. You built nothing.
Susan said: “I remember reading Lazyman’s blog back when I was more active in Monavie and I recall him saying repeatedly that Monvavie was going to be shut down by the FTC. Similar statements to what he is now making about Yevo actually. Out of curiosity, I looked on the FTC database for past violations and cases and I don’t see anything in there against Monavie.”
Where did Lazy Man say that Monavie (or Yevo for that matter) was going to be shut down by the FTC? As I recall, he and others showed plenty of evidence that Monavie’s (and Yevo’s) claims violated specific U.S. laws that the FTC and FDA enforce, which would carry the risk of the FTC/FDA intervening and possibly shutting them down, but no one ventured so far as to suggest that it was inevitably going to happen. As it turned out, the company belly-flopped on its own, preempting the opportunity for regulatory intervention, and the inventor of the product admitted that it was nothing more than “expensive flavored water”. That means that you are a sucker of the highest order. You shelled out big bucks for that expensive flavored water and no doubt marketed it as a miracle elixir just like all their other greedy/sucker distributors did prior to the company going into foreclosure. If you had heeded our thoughtful warnings instead of ignoring them, you could averted being part of this disaster.
http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/money/53061545-79/monavie-company-distributors-percent.html.csp
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2500617-155/judge-wants-answers-halts-takeover-of
BTW, the FDA did take action against Monavie; but as I said before, Monavie died for financial reasons, so they never had to fully atone for all of the illegal miracle claims or the pyramid scheming.
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/EnforcementActivitiesbyFDA/CyberLetters/ucm056937.pdf
Susan said: “My point for bring up Monavie is that they are a much bigger company than Yevo right now and they didn’t get in trouble with the FTC. What makes you think Yevo will?”
Aside from the first part being wrong (Monavie is dead, not bigger), that’s a strawman argument. You seem to be implying that I said that Yevo was definitely going to be targeted by the FTC, when in fact I said nothing of the kind. I said that their advertising violates specific U.S. laws — laws which the FDA and FTC are tasked with enforcing — and that the company faces the risk of regulatory intervention as a result. Whether the FDA/FTC get around to doing anything about it is another matter entirely. So while you can argue that Yevo might get away with violating U.S. law, you can’t reasonably argue that the marketing claims I have highlighted are not in violation of U.S. law.
Susan said: “I also take exception to all of the “facts” Vogel is posting, as if they are correct.”
I totally understand that it’s frustrating for you to see me coolly eviscerate the latest shitty MLM product that you’ve staked your livelihood on, but using facetious quotation marks around the word “facts” doesn’t make my comments any less factual. If you want to actually dispute the factuality of anything I’ve written, then have at it.
Susan said: “As far as I can tell, he doesn’t seem to be employed or maybe he is retired.”
How would you know one way or the other, and how would it pertain to our discussion about Yevo? It’s mind boggling that you wouldn’t be able to anticipate how foolish you would appear by resorting to such worthless idle speculation. I can all but guarantee that my time (and expertise) is exponentially more valuable than yours, which you squander trying to scratch out sub-minimum wage by flogging snakeoil pyramid schemes. Donating my time to discussions like this is a public service and a mitzvah; a service that would be scorned only by someone who has a conflicting interest in Yevo, as do you.
Susan said: “He seems to spend most of his time looking up things on the internet and posting here. Who is Vogel to say all of the things he’s posting is factual not his layman’s opinion?”
Let me break it down for you in terms that you might have a faint hope of grasping. The lines of text with the “http” prefix I’ve been posting are called hyperlinks. Clicking on them takes you to other sites on the internet; i.e., the places that have evidence backing up the points I’ve been making. For instance, when I state as fact that Yevo or another product contains “x” and costs “y”, I provide the links to prove it. Or when I state a relevant scientific fact, I back it up by presenting links to credible authorities. And that in a nutshell is how you can tell the difference between a fact and layperson’s opinion. Can you really be so dense as to not understand any of this?
Susan said: “It seems to me that it’s pretty common knowledge that diet effects (sic) health.”
Wow, that was so blindingly unenlightening that just reading it once made me lose 5 IQ points. Stop please!
Susan said: “Most of us have probably seen the supersize me movie where the guy created a documentary about eating McDonald’s for a month.”
Why do you invoke these stupid red herrings? McDonald’s unhealthier food offerings support an argument against consuming unhealthy foods; not consuming Yevo’s processed powdered Frankenfood crap.
Susan said: “Yevo isn’t the first company to create a product line that attempts to capture foods that are considered by health professionals as a “good diet.”
Credible health professionals would never think that Yevo’s products represent a “good diet”; quite the opposite. These are the kinds of foods that experts advise avoiding in lieu of fresh whole foods. So yes, Yevo isn’t “the first”; because they haven’t even come close to doing it.
Susan said: “Where I’m going with this is that Yevo is putting together food products that are targeted towards the things that are good for us and excludes the things that are bad for us.”
And that’s a completely untenable argument. Yevo excludes fruit and vegetables and herbs; ergo, according to your line of reasoning, fruit and vegetables and fresh herbs are bad for us. But that’s clearly not true; they are pretty much the best things for us. And that’s a great example of why every marketing message that attempts to justify Yevo’s products fails in horrific fashion.
Susan said: “I think we can squabble over price all day and post links to ebay or wherever to find things that might be cheaper.”
Well, that’s precisely the point of this whole exercise isn’t it? Yevo’s marketing materials and the distributors who have posted here predicate their marketing on price comparisons and value propositions. So of course, any reasonable examination of those claims will also focus on price/value and composition.
Susan said: “Personally, I really like Yevo’s products. Maybe not all of them, but most I really enjoy eating and they have improved my health since I started replacing a meal a two a day with them.”
Um, BS. How did Yevo improve your “health” and why would you not have used the opportunity to provide tangible details instead of resorting to vague innuendo? BTW, I am led to immediately be skeptical of anonymous distributor claims that they “like” or “enjoy” the products, given that Chip Marsland and other distributors have made a point of emphasizing how fishy the products smell/taste. I believe you’d have no compunction at all about lying, but even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not, I’d have to assume that you’ve subconsciously deluded yourself into ignoring the taste/smell because you’ve staked your livelihood on recruiting people into the business, and it would be hard to follow through on that if you weren’t actively trying to suppress your gag reflex and the parts of your brain that control taste, logic, and moral reasoning.
The fact that the products contain as much protein, additives, fishy oils, etc. as they do makes it virtually impossible for them to taste good. That’s precisely the reason why “good” foods aren’t prepared by dumping all that shit on them. When you consider the question “why has no one else thought to add 25-30 grams of protein powder, a gram or two of fishy omega-3 FAs, and gram after gram of vitamin/mineral powder to a single serving of oatmeal, curry powder, or freeze-dried mashed potatoes, the obvious answer is because it would taste like complete and utter shit. I mean, c’mon for crying out loud, is anyone really stupid enough to not understand this? Even someone with the palette and culinary sophistication of a caveman would get it.
https://myyevo.com/uploads/global/Curry%20Nutrient%20Fact%20Panel.pdf
https://myyevo.com/shop/products/en43-mashed-potatoes-4025vus
Yevo isn’t doing something revolutionary with their products; they are merely doing something incredibly dumb with their products; something which the rest of the world has had the good sense to not do.
More detailed follow-up on ACE-K is in order. First of all, recall that I had stated that it was unclear whether ACE-K was added to Yevo’s oatmeal, based on the fact that it wasn’t listed on the ingredient panel, and I said that by deduction, it could be concluded that it either wasn’t in the product or that they simply failed to include ACE-K on the label despite its presence in the product. Well, while this still isn’t clear with the oatmeal…
https://myyevo.com/uploads/global/Oats%20No%20Sugar%20Nutrient%20Fact%20Panel.pdf
…I did manage confirm that ACE-K is in fact included in the EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder. The reason I didn’t see it on the first go around is that they listed it under a subsection of ingredients with the misleading title “Essential Vitamin and Mineral Blend”.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png
Now why would Yevo resort to such deception by listing ACE-K as a vitamin/mineral, since it is neither, instead of as a sweetener or even as just a miscellaneous ingredient? The clue comes from the comment made by Chip Marsland that I quoted previously:
13:14 – Marsden: “For those that do like sugar, a sweet tasting product, we are coming out with a no-sugar added product and this one uses, you know, something that I actually brought to the table. And it’s a product called acesulfame potassium. It’s also known as ACE-K. Now, most people don’t know this and it’s actually an important thing to know – but it’s a potassium salt. And I looked at it as twofold: it provides dual functionality to our products because it actually can provide potassium, which is important for us because we want to hit as much potassium from any source we possibly can, every chance we get. But it also provides a little sweetness because this potassium salt’s actually sweet.
https://www.yevo43.com/episode-1-it-only-gets-better/#sthash.ipaZ9eDc.dpuf
Here Marsland seems to be attempting to provide a weak rationale that might explain why they tried to disguise ACE-K as a mineral on the product label. He’s presenting it as though it is a source of potassium (a mineral) that only happens, though happy coincidence, to also have a little sweetness to it. But this posturing is so blatantly jaw-droppingly deceptive that one has to wonder what could have possibly led Marsland to say it. Is he dumb; dishonest; gullible; unquestioning?
Even Yevo’s FAQ, which at least correctly identifies ACE-K as a sweetener, also tries to pass of this misleading idea of ACE-K being a significant potassium source:
“Why does Yevo use the sweet potassium salt acesulfame potassium, or Ace K, in its products? When selecting the best non-sugar sweetener for our foods, Yevo chose one that was not only sweet but also contained potassium, one of the 43 essential nutrients. Acesulfame potassium, or Ace K (so named because K is the symbol for potassium), is a sweet potassium salt that contains about 20 percent potassium.”
https://www.yevo43.com/more_about_yevo/#13
So let’s begin by deconstructing the argument that the ACE-K in Yevo EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder serves as a significant dietary source of potassium.
First of all, ACE-K, an artificial sweetener, is FDA-approved only as a “general-purpose sweetener and flavor enhancer”; not as a source of dietary potassium, and certainly not as a “mineral”.
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=172.800
Second, and here’s the fun part, I’m now going to walk you through some simple standard calculations to demonstrate exactly why Yevo’s claim is BS.
We begin with this detailed textbook on ACE-K notes that when added to a beverage product as a stand-alone sweetener (i.e., not in combination with aspartame or cyclamates), ACE-K is used at concentrations of up to 200 mg/L (see p.217).
https://books.google.com/books?id=BTD6o22FXbYC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=falsee
Yevo’s EN-43 not-a-smoothie ingredient label does not list the amount of ACE-K added but it can be figured out by deduction. Let’s assume that a Yevo smoothie is reconstituted in about 12 ounces of water, a reasonable estimate for the size of a single beverage serving, which amounts to about 354 mL total volume. That would mean that, based on the maximum concentration of ACE-K specified in the textbook (200 mg/L), a serving would have a concentration of ACE-K not exceeding roughly 71 mg. The molecular formula of ACE-K is C4H4KNO4S, meaning that each molecule of ACE-K has only one potassium molecule. The molecular weight of ACE-K is 201.242 and that of potassium is 39.0983…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acesulfame_potassium
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium
…therefore, it can be calculated that ACE-K consists of 19.4% potassium (i.e., 39.0983 divided by 201.242), which is effectively the same as the 20% that Yevo stated in their FAQ. Multiplying the percentage of potassium in ACE-K with the amount of ACE-K (71 mg) in a 12-ounce smoothie works out to 13.8 mg potassium per Yevo serving — and that’s a tiny amount. According to the data that Yevo presents as the basis for its percentage RDA calculations (link below). The RDA for potassium is 3500 mg.
https://www.yevo43.com/essential-nutrients-determining-the-perfect-amount/
Therefore a serving of Yevo with its teensy 13.8 mg of potassium would provide a trivially insignificant 0.4% of the RDA.
While it’s always fun brushing up on our basic chemistry calculations; it’s also nice to have corroborating sources as a reality check. And lo and behold, what does this handy info sheet from the International Food Information Council Foundation tell us about ACE-K?
“The amount of potassium in acesulfame potassium is extremely small. A packet of tabletop sweetener containing acesulfame potassium has just 10 mg of potassium.”
http://www.foodinsight.org/Content/6/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-Acesulfame-Potassium.pdf
There’s the punchline reiterated. One packet of the artificial sweetener ACE-K — pretty much what you’d expect to be added in a single beverage serving — provides only 10 mg of potassium. So close to my deduced estimate of 13.7 mg that it’s scary!
So what does it say about Yevo when they: (a) try to bury a (at least somewhat controversial) artificial sweetener in their ingredient list by misclassifying it as a mineral; (b) repeatedly misrepresent ACE-K as though it’s a significant source of potassium; and (c) repeatedly misrepresent their products as containing no artificial flavorings, when in fact the FDA-approved use of ACE-K is a sweetening and flavor-enhancing agent?
Just one more piece among a growing litany of damning evidence.
Vogel,
I would like to recommend a book to you: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people-dale-carnegie/1100370318?ean=9780671027032
1: I was making $10,000/month, plus or minus with Monavie.
2: The FTC letter you referenced was for the website http://www.acai-berry.com, which is a distributor’s website and not Monavie Corporate. This specific distributor was pretty well known for internet sales and not at all suprising that there were statements made that got him in trouble. I read the letter and it seemed more of a warning and not any real action against the person.
3: Vogel’s opinions: Your arragement of references and links to come up with factual conclusions are like taking a dumbster load of Ford car parts and tossing them in the air and having them hit the ground in the form of a Mustang. Your conclusions are just your opions.
4: There are nutrition professionals behind Yevo. This person here has a pretty impressive resume: https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceyjbell Where is your resume that gives you the right to call everyone who posts here names and make like everyone but you is stupid?
5: Lazyman said made all sorts of FTC comments and statements here: http://www.juicescam.com/
Susan,
I’m going to chime in on some of your comments addressed to Vogel. This is an open discussion. I’m sure he’ll chime in if he wants to.
I love Dale Carnegie’s Win Friends and Influence People. I need to re-read it as it has been a few years. Anyone promoting pyramid schemes like MLM is violating every principle of the book. In the past year almost all the comments I get on my site are saying, “Thank you Lazy Man, these pyramid schemers are so annoying on Facebook.”
1. So you were making $10,000 a month with MonaVie and didn’t realize that it no longer exists? What the hell? If I build a $10,000 a month business, I’m going to keep track of it.
2. The MLM’s corporate office is responsible for the distributor. If the “specific distributor was pretty well known for internet sales and not at all surprising that there were statements made that got him in trouble”, MonaVie was negligent in their duties. The FDA tends to give warnings to give people a chance a fix their errors before taking legal action. For our the purposes of discussing violations, it is the same thing as action.
3. I think Vogel has carefully constructed the information. Even when he puts together of his own math like he did with the amount of potassium in ACE-K, he backed it up with a third party verification. This isn’t like just tossing car parts in the air. It’s creating a Mustang and have Ford certify it is a Mustang.
Of course you are welcome to form your own opinion on the factual information that Vogel has presented. If Vogel’s information is incorrect, I once again invite you to please move the discussion forward by pointing out why it is incorrect. I respect you having a different opinion, but one of my favorite sayings is, “Anyone can have an opinion, but it takes work to have an informed opinion.”
Vogel has clearly put in the work to show his informed opinion. I’m not seeing the same from you Susan.
4. That’s an interesting link to Stacey Bell’s LinkedIn page. Did you notice that she doesn’t mention Yevo? If it’s such a great revolutionary product, why omit it? Is she really that embarrassed that her colleagues will laugh at her?
Vogel, it might be worth looking into Stacey Bell. I see on this page she is “a former Harvard Medical School faculty member”, but her LinkedIn page mentions nothing of Harvard Business School. Instead it reads, “Harvard Business School – No Degree, Agribusiness Seminar.” It is sad when people have to put down that they went to a seminar as notable credential.
5. Yes I did make “all sorts of FTC comments and statements” about MonaVie at JuiceScam.com. I believe them all to be accurate today. Do you think any of them are inaccurate? If so, why?
6. Susan, you didn’t have a 6th point, but I thought I’d bring up Vemma getting taken down by FTC because you seem to move the goalposts to new topics so that you don’t have to admit you were wrong.
Why do my comments keep getting deleted?
None of your comments have been deleted. It looks like they triggered my software spam filters.
Susan said: “Vogel, I would like to recommend a book to you: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people-dale-carnegie/1100370318?ean=9780671027032”
Why? Surely we both know that any attempt to influence you or win your friendship would be a lost cause. It’s never going to happen because the facts and arguments I present impinge on your ability to bilk people. Maybe someday, after you lose your shirt for the umpteenth time chasing MLM sucker dreams and scamming people, you’ll finally come to your senses and pop by here to thank me, but I won’t be holding my breath. My re-reading Carnegie’s stale book isn’t going to change that reality. As for befriending and influencing people other than you, I’m doing just fine, and it’s really none of your concern.
“1: I was making $10,000/month, plus or minus with Monavie.”
I’ll believe that when you show proof. Until then, BS. But if you did, then my heart goes out to the hordes of people that you had to rip off to make that money – by fraudulently selling them Monavie’s “expensive flavored water”, as the inventor described it. Rather than crowing that you made six-figures defrauding people, you should hang your head in shame and make restitution.
“2: The FTC letter you referenced was for the website http://www.acai-berry.com, which is a distributor’s website and not Monavie Corporate. This specific distributor was pretty well known for internet sales and not at all surprising that there were statements made that got him in trouble. I read the letter and it seemed more of a warning and not any real action against the person.”
Don’t try to play that innocent BS with me Suziecakes; it won’t fly. The FDA warning letter was sent to distributor Kevin Vokes and to Monavie Corporate because Vokes’ website made various illegal claims positioning Monavie as a medicinal agent. However, this type of misleading and illegal advertising was not an isolated example – it was the standard modus operandi for the marketing of Monavie throughout the product’s lifespan.
Susan said: “Vogel’s opinions: Your arrangement (sic) of references and links to come up with factual conclusions are like taking a dumbster (sic) load of Ford car parts and tossing them in the air and having them hit the ground in the form of a Mustang. Your conclusions are just your opions (sic).”
If it truly seemed that way to you, it could only be because you lack the cognitive faculties to follow a sequence of logical arguments, in much the same way that you wouldn’t understand how a piece of complex machinery like a Ford is constructed. Let me know which parts flew over your head and I’ll write it them out for you again nice and slow. “Dumbster” indeed!
Susan said: “4: There are nutrition professionals behind Yevo. This person here has a pretty impressive resume: https://www.linkedin.com/in/staceyjbell Where is your resume that gives you the right to call everyone who posts here names and make like everyone but you is stupid?”
Wow! Nutrition professionals you say? Has any snakeoil supplement MLM ever thought of that before? Oh yeah, all of them did! Like, coincidentally, Monavie for example, who had Ralph Carson as their illustrious nutritional professional – the guy who finally confessed, after Monavie began imploding, that the beloved snakeoil he had been hawking for years was nothing more than “expensive flavored water”.
http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/money/53061545-79/monavie-company-distributors-percent.html.csp
Who constitutes the rest of Yevo’s awesome brain trust? Geniuses like Marsland, who apparently doesn’t know how to perform simple calculations to determine the amount of potassium in a serving of Yevo EN-43?
I don’t need a resume to call you stupid. You prove it every time you post. Where’s your resume to be an MLM huckster? Oh yeah, right, I forgot – you don’t need one; just a pulse and a checkbook (pulse optional).
“5: Lazyman said made all sorts of FTC comments and statements here: http://www.juicescam.com/”
When I challenged you to provide evidence to support your claim that Lazy Man had said that it was a certainty that the FTC was going to shut Monavie down, I meant specific quotes. Don’t just throw the homepage URL at me and expect me to search through a thousand comments.
Lazyman,
You said “So you were making $10,000 a month with MonaVie and didn’t realize that it no longer exists? What the hell? If I build a $10,000 a month business, I’m going to keep track of it.”
I said that I DID make this much. I’ve not been involved since they modified the comp plan. Remember when I said that Monavie suffered a failing common to binary MLM? Many of the top leaders exited the company when Monavie cut the comp plan. I know you think that there was something else that caused the company to fail, but in reality it was because of the binary system and the comp plan becoming too top heavy for corporate to pay commissions promised.
I was quite disappointed in the company, so why would I continue to keep track of it after I left?
You said “4. That’s an interesting link to Stacey Bell’s LinkedIn page. Did you notice that she doesn’t mention Yevo? If it’s such a great revolutionary product, why omit it? Is she really that embarrassed that her colleagues will laugh at her?”
Maybe she doesn’t keep her LinkedIn page updated? Not everyone updates their pages all the time. I note her facebook page is updated pretty regularly and has quite a few yevo posts in there.
I sat through a presentation and she indicated that all of her colleagues were quite excited to see what was to come of Yevo products. Look on youtube and you will see some of her talks recorded and posted where she mentions exactly this.
RE My comments about Vogel throwing car parts in the air: I think you can string all sorts of facts together and draw conclusions from them. This doesn’t make them correct.
Take his comments about Yevo ordering factory parts and then making the conclusion they are used for ordinary processes. How does he know that custom equipment wasn’t ordered or equipment was ordered and then later modified to do a different task? It doesn’t seem to make much sense that Yevo would fabricate all of their processing equipment from scratch.
Vogel’s conclusion from the shipping bills is that Yevo is using ordinary dehydrating equipment and doing nothing innovative. Without actual proof of this, and he has none, then his mustang is just a bunch of spare parts laying on the ground that his imagination has formed into a car.
Most all of his other nutritional arguments are the same. He’s doing all of this math that could very easily be a situation were he’s saying 2+2 = 5. If he’s such a smart guy, then way not order some of the Yevo products and have a lab run tests to provide facts for what he’s claiming?
I think he just likes to yell and call everyone names so that his information will be taking as fact. How about he provides some actual proof?
As for the spam alert you received, I don’t know why that would happen because my hosting provider is Amazon.
1) It’s very telling of the character of people can sell $45 bottle juice, but when the pyramid scheme is changed they move on. If you were running a legitimate business according to the FTC guidelines you needed to be making your money based on retail sales to the public, not from your downline. The compensation plan does not have anything to do with retail sales. If a change in the compensation plan leads people to leave, it’s damning proof that their business was an illegal pyramid scheme based on recruitment and not based on retail sales to the public.
I did not see any change in the MonaVie compensation plan until most of the people had already left. My understanding is that MonaVie was only paying out around 50% of what it made to distributors. It doesn’t matter how that money is divided or how top heavy it is. That’s all an excuse trying to ignore that the pyramid scheme collapsed on them, because it was built on recruiting people and not actually fulfilling a market that demanded $45 flavored water.
You can’t be more disappointed in MonaVie than I am. They never paid me a dime. I still followed it from time to time. Also, you’d think you’d have friends there? People do generally try to make friends with other distributors in MLMs, right? In 9 years of covering them, that seems to be a common thing.
Stacey Bell’s LinkedIn – Yes, she probably doesn’t keep it updated. If you are going to cite information that is outdated, you should probably state it.
You do realize that Stacey Bell is Yevo’s paid spokesperson, right? Of course she’s going to say that her colleagues are excited by Yevo. This is what all paid spokespeople of MLM companies do. MonaVie’s Alex Schauss did the same thing before he ended up suing them.
Susan said, “I think you can string all sorts of facts together and draw conclusions from them. This doesn’t make them correct.”
You haven’t shown that any of them are incorrect. The conclusions drawn from the facts logically seem correct. So until you show otherwise, let’s just presume they are correct instead of accepting your unfounded, unsupported doubt.
Susan said, “Most all of his other nutritional arguments are the same. He’s doing all of this math that could very easily be a situation were he’s saying 2+2 = 5.”
The great thing about math is that it is immutable. If he’s saying that 2+2=5, you should call him out and say that 2+2=4. I’ve asked you multiple times to do this and you’ve failed to even attempt it.
Susan said, “I think he just likes to yell and call everyone names so that his information will be taking as fact. How about he provides some actual proof?”
What would constitute “actual proof” in your eyes? He’s cited probably a dozen sources and shown the connection. He’s shown that Yevo’s marketing itself is inconsistent with the information that reputable organizations have shown. What more can be done to be “actual proof”?
The spam filter can be triggered by the content of the message. I can see this easily happening to your message due to the large number of spammy emails that I historically have gotten focused on acai.
It is funny you all are beating up on Yevo for referring to the term “Essential Nutrients” and then Vogel gives the product Boost as a more legitimate alternative. I believe Lazyman made the statement that Yevo made this term up.
Just last night I saw a Boost commercial on TV where they claimed their product had 26 Essential Nutrients. In viewing their website today, they have the term Essential Nutrients plastered all over it. For example. If you look at the Boost For Kids, you will see “Contains CalciLockTM† blend of essential nutrients to help support healthy bone development”
Susan (and other’s following this thread),
The talk of MonaVie has been moved to the the MonaVie article. If there were some Yevo-related talk in it, that’s collateral damage. Sorry. The people reading this aren’t interested in MonaVie’s scheme failing because there was no legitimate market for $45 flavored water.
Susan,
I’m seeing Boost referring to “essential vitamins and minerals” as they do here. They aren’t trying to sell you on water that isn’t included in the product. They aren’t claiming that the World Health Organization has come forth to endorse and bless 43 particular nutrients like Yevo strongly implies.
I didn’t see anyone beating up Yevo for using “essential nutrients.” It was about the citation of 43 particular ones as if there is agreed science from scientific organizations and pitching that as “growing” or “healing” as in “Grow. Heal. Live.” in their marketing. The science is completely lacking and consumers can be deceived by this.
Lazyman,
I don’t believe my FTC comments had anything to do to Monavie, but related to comments you made earlier in this thread about the FTC not having money to chase after MLMs.
If anything, you’ve clouded the discussion. Most of my comments were related to me establishing myself as an experienced and successful network marketer.
The FTC comments were related to MonaVie as they were coming from you saying that I claimed the FTC would shut them down. In any case, they weren’t relevant Yevo. They might be more relevant here: Now We Can’t Trust the FTC to Protect Consumers?. I’ll reiterate what I said earlier, please limit your comments here to Yevo when possible. Use the other general MLM articles to discuss MLM.
If you want to establish yourself as an experiences network marketing, Vogel had it right. Show us the checks and give us your identity. The fact that you were wrong on so many accounts doesn’t reflect you as being knowledgeable of the industry, so you might as well show some hard proof in the form of documentation.
Lazyman,
You said “If you want to establish yourself as an experiences network marketing, Vogel had it right. Show us the checks and give us your identity. The fact that you were wrong on so many accounts doesn’t reflect you as being knowledgeable of the industry, so you might as well show some hard proof in the form of documentation.”
What was I wrong about? As far as I can tell, the only fact I wasn’t aware of was that Monavie had been bought out. Leaders started leaving Monavie clear back in 2012ish. I’d not thought much about Monavie in ages.
First off, the bigger companies don’t send paper checks. Second, would you post one of your paychecks up here? Third, I’m not sure what showing you my income would accomplish.
You were wrong about the FTC, MonaVie, and used numerous logical fallacies because you were unable to follow simple Vogel logic. Now you say that leaders started leaving in MonaVie 2012, but the Kelly Bangert lawsuit showed that MonaVie collapsed on the top leaders all the way back in mid-2008.
You can show screenshots and information like that. You don’t need to show paper checks. You are the one making income claims and trying to claim expertise. If you don’t intend to show proof, you shouldn’t make claims.
How are the leaders of this pyramid machine not in prison after already proven to be fraudsters? Is the judicial system so screwed up from other bureaucratic crap that they can’t handle these people and the crimes they continue to commit? It seems obvious that they are so confidant in their game, that they aren’t even trying to hide it. I don’t even know that many people who eat oatmeal in general anymore, and these guys are pumping out a product that is the most useless version. When does the madness ever end?
Lazyman,
You said: “You were wrong about the FTC, MonaVie, and used numerous logical fallacies because you were unable to follow simple Vogel logic. Now you say that leaders started leaving in MonaVie 2012, but the Kelly Bangert lawsuit showed that MonaVie collapsed on the top leaders all the way back in mid-2008.”
I have never claimed to know every aspect of what was going on inside of Monavie. $10,000/month was not even in the Diamond ranks of Monavie when it was doing well. How would I know if a Diamond above me was thinking about leaving? I can tell you the major exodus didn’t happen until 2011-2012.
I wasn’t wrong about the FTC. I said they had a budget of nearly half a billion dollars. Their 2016 budget is alot closer to half a billion than it is to zero.
There isn’t any Vogel logic for me to miss. I am just not buying into his circumstantial hand waving. Come up with some data and hard facts, then we can talk about fallacies.
Susan said, “I wasn’t wrong about the FTC. I said they had a budget of nearly half a billion dollars. Their 2016 budget is alot closer to half a billion than it is to zero.”
You assert that you were right because a 309 million budget (Fiscal year 2016) for the FTC is closer to 500 million than it is to 0? I hope your gas station charges you $50 for $30 of gas and tells you, “It’s fair, because the price is a lot closer to $50 that it is to zero.”
This is the kind of lunacy that MLMers use.
That was the last comment of yours I’m posting here that doesn’t move the conversation forward with Yevo. You want to talk MonaVie or FTC, I’ve given you the threads to continue the conversation in.
Geoff said “I don’t even know that many people who eat oatmeal in general anymore, and these guys are pumping out a product that is the most useless version. When does the madness ever end?”
Oatmeal is has been, and is, becoming more popular as a breakfast food: http://www.denverpost.com/ci_22289582/oatmeal-makes-comeback-canvas-low-fat-breakfast
Susan, your oatmeal article is more than 3 years old.
Susan said: “I was quite disappointed in the company, so why would I continue to keep track of it after I left?”
I suppose you also never heard Carson’s confession that the product you gouged people for was nothing more than “expensive flavored water” and not the super-nutritious cancer-curing miracle beverage that distributors were pretending it was?
http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/money/53061545-79/monavie-company-distributors-percent.html.csp
It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that a top-earning Monavie distributor (which you claim to be) wouldn’t have known that the product was a scam and that the company went into foreclosure; it just seems extremely unlikely, especially in the rarefied world of MLM. Either way, it’s a moot point. But it is a bit bone chilling (yet enlightening) to see how you blithely flit from scam to scam without a hint of remorse.
Susan said: “I sat through a presentation and she indicated that all of her colleagues were quite excited to see what was to come of Yevo products.”
Who are these mystery colleagues you refer too and in what way were they “excited”? I sat through one of Bell’s video presentations on Yevo too, and I actually felt dumber for it. It’s the same type of codswallop that all snakeoil MLMs use to entice rubes. Take for instance the lies that Monavie’s paid hack Ralph Carson made about their juice (lies which you allegedly profited from), before he eventually recanted and confessed that it was nothing more than “expensive flavored water”:
Q: “You spoke about testimonials earlier. What sort of comments do you get back from people?”
Carson: “Well, the reactions we’re hearing are related to aches and pains people experience? musculoskeletal things that we deal with on a daily basis. Those seem to diminish. Other things that happen would be more subtle because a lot of these plant components can help in terms of cholesterol and high blood pressure. As you take your medication and products like this, those things will rectify so possibly your physician could try a lower dose. If you look at chronic diseases, things that would linger such as cardiovascular atherosclerosis, malignancies, cancers, tumors, diabetes, Alzheimers disease or macular degeneration? these things take a long time to manifest in the body and there is such potential in terms of combating these on a daily basis.”
Q: “The overall consideration here would appear to be that you have a natural product you’ve created, a combination of powerful fruits, very few of which any of us eat, and I would think that the long term, cumulative effect of this MonaVie product would have to be very powerful on anyone’s system, just by nature of providing the antioxidants, the phytonutrients, and the overall nutritious elements that we don’t get from our daily diets.”
Carson: “That’s exactly right.”
http://www.pilatesacademy.com.au/Dr.%20Ralph%20Carson%20interview%20on%20CBS%20radio%20on%20MonaVie.pdf
Alexander Schauss was one of Monavie’s other paid shill “scientific advisers”. He hyped the product relentlessly on their behalf, making ridiculously over-the-top claims about Carson’s “expensive flavored water”, and then turned around and sued the company, around the time it started imploding, because they tried to stiff him for royalties.
http://music255.com/dr/dr-schauss-monavie-convention-vision-2010.html
http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/money/57547320-79/monavie-agreement-company-patents.html.csp
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/utah/utdce/2:2014cv00104/92023
In other words, if you think that Yevo renting some ho-hum retired nutritionist matters even a little bit, you’re sadly mistaken.
Susan said: “RE My comments about Vogel throwing car parts in the air: I think you can string all sorts of facts together and draw conclusions from them.”
Stringing facts together and drawing conclusions form them is the only process that matters in a discussion like this. That’s how details are uncovered, arguments formulated and rebutted, conclusions drawn, etc. It looks pretty foolish when you complain about the process itself.
It’s still not clear whether you don’t understand what I’m writing or whether you disagree with something in particular. I’ve written a lot so far and presented many facts and conclusions, so you have to specifically identify what if anything you are disputing, otherwise it is a tacit admission of acceptance. I’ll even make it easier for you if you like. I can compose a checklist of damming details we’ve uncovered about Yevo and you can go through the task of indicating which points you dispute and why (i.e. put forth evidence).
Susan said: “Take his comments about Yevo ordering factory parts and then making the conclusion they are used for ordinary processes. How does he know that custom equipment wasn’t ordered or equipment was ordered and then later modified to do a different task? It doesn’t seem to make much sense that Yevo would fabricate all of their processing equipment from scratch.”
Pretty simple really. We know that the waybills weren’t for “factory parts” because that’s not what they listed in the shipment. They list that shipment consignment consisted of equipment systems for freeze drying – i.e. specifically “vacuum freeze drying equipment and freezing room”, which is the equipment that’s shown on the supplier webpages I linked to in my previous post.
Yevo, like a plethora of companies, makes freeze-dried foods, so why would they buy freeze drying equipment and then modify it do something other than freeze drying? And modified how exactly? Do you think Yevo sprinkled magic fairy dust on the machines to make them defy the laws of physics and turn a pile of worthless shit into a miraculous super smoothie powder that cures everything from Alzheimer’s to hemorrhoids?
I don’t really know what to make of it when you say “It doesn’t seem to make much sense that Yevo would fabricate all of their processing equipment from scratch.” No it doesn’t, obviously, and they didn’t, obviously. They purchased it from routine suppliers of freeze drying equipment and then Marlsland went off telling tales to distributors about how there’s no other equipment like it anywhere in the world. It’s the exact same BS story that Monavie told about their fraud juice being produced through a unique patented freeze dried process. Surely, as a former Monavie distributor, you know that already.
In closing, it bears pointing out that when I present facts, you mischaracterize them as opinions; and yet your replies are not only not factual, they aren’t even opinions – they are merely idle speculation. It’s as if you’re trying out potential excuses to see if one of them might fly. Bottom line, if you have any information about customization of machinery, then all you have to do is present it. I put hard evidence on the table; you have not.
Susan said: “Most all of his other nutritional arguments are the same. He’s doing all of this math that could very easily be a situation were he’s saying 2+2 = 5.”
I’m making arguments that show 2+2 = 4. It could only appear otherwise to someone who doesn’t understand basic math, and that’s OK; it would explain why you’ve had to resign yourself to MLM scammery. If you spotted any actual mistakes in my simple calculations, you would have pointed them out.
Susan said: “I think he just likes to yell and call everyone names so that his information will be taking as fact. How about he provides some actual proof?”
Yell? Hardly. I have repeatedly and consistently presented facts and actual proof. When I do, you either ignore it completely, resort to the deceptive tactic of mischaracterizing it as “opinion”, or feebly argue that the math is suspect because you lack the ability to add 2 and 2.
Susan said: “If he’s such a smart guy, then way not order some of the Yevo products and have a lab run tests to provide facts for what he’s claiming?”
I haven’t claimed anything that “lab tests” would prove or disprove, nor did you specify the specific lab tests to which you were referring. It’s rather silly that you would think, given everything I’ve said to date, that I would waste money and help support scammers by buying their products, let alone paying to have them tested.
Susan said: “It is funny you all are beating up on Yevo for referring to the term “Essential Nutrients” and then Vogel gives the product Boost as a more legitimate alternative. I believe Lazyman made the statement that Yevo made this term up.”
We’ve been “beating up” on Yevo for a lot of good reasons. Do you find that funny too?
I haven’t seen the commercial that you speak of and, as usual, you didn’t provide any evidence, so I don’t know whether your claim is true. But even if it is, there is a world of difference between describing certain nutrients as “essential” versus falsely claiming that the invented marketing term “43 Essential Nutrients” is a concept codified by various reputable organizations like WHO and IOM. That is the issue, not whether some nutrients are in fact essential – we know that they are. You are simply mischaracterizing the argument.
Besides, Yevo’s freeze-dried products don’t contain water – one of the so-called “Essential Nutrients” on Yevo’s list. It has to be added by the consumer. So Yevo doesn’t provide 43 Essential Nutrients. They’d have called it EN-42 if they had any sense.
Lazyman said “Susan, your oatmeal article is more than 3 years old.”
It is still quite valid. As seen here, US Oat consumption as stayed steady and then gone up in the last year: http://apps.fas.usda.gov/psdonline/circulars/grain-corn-coarsegrains.pdf
Vogel said “I haven’t claimed anything that “lab tests” would prove or disprove, nor did you specify the specific lab tests to which you were referring. It’s rather silly that you would think, given everything I’ve said to date, that I would waste money and help support scammers by buying their products, let alone paying to have them tested.”
I’m staying your assumptions about the contents of Yevo products is wrong. The nutritional sheets show it’s wrong, but you continue to post bogus math that you think shows otherwise.
Let’s take your artificial sweetener bogus math. You are incorrectly claiming that this is the only source of potassium in the EN-43 shake. I’m saying you are flat wrong.
Get some lab results to prove your bogus math.
Susan said: “I’m staying your assumptions about the contents of Yevo products is wrong. The nutritional sheets show it’s wrong, but you continue to post bogus math that you think shows otherwise.”
Exactly how are we supposed to know what you are referring to? If you are going to assert that any of my assumptions are wrong, the onus is on you to at least be specific which assumptions you’re talking about, and then present some form of evidence to back it up. Otherwise you’re just playing the fool.
Susan said: “Let’s take your artificial sweetener bogus math.”
You don’t get away with simply calling the math bogus. You have to at least make an effort to back up such an accusation. It was very simple math, and the conclusions are inescapable.
Susan said: “You are incorrectly claiming that this is the only source of potassium in the EN-43 shake. I’m saying you are flat wrong.”
No, what you did was to create a strawman argument by claiming that I said something that I never said and then alleging that it was flat wrong. I never even remotely implied that ACE-K is the only source of potassium in the product. It’s clearly not according to the label, and in one of my previous analyses I even specified the exact amount of potassium listed on the label. How/why on earth would you misrepresent my position so badly unless it was on purpose or you have a serious reading comprehension impairment.
What I did in fact say, and with perfect clarity, was:
(1) the amount of potassium provided by the ACE-K in Yevo’s EN-43 Not-A-Smoothie (somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-13 mg) amounts to well less than 1% of the RDA for potassium;
(2) the ACE-K in the product is misrepresented as being a significant source of dietary potassium despite the fact that it most definitely is not;
(3) the product lists ACE-K as a vitamin/mineral instead of identifying it as an artificial sweetener and is this mislabeled/misbranded;
(4) statements that the product does not contain artificial flavoring are misleading because, in fact, ACE-K’s only FDA-approved use is as a sweetener/flavoring agent.
I have proven each of those points with solid evidence and ruthless airtight logic. And try as you might, no amount of deceptive maneuvering on you part will enable you to wriggle off the hook.
Susan said: “Get some lab results to prove your bogus math.”
You keep reiterating this foolish challenge even though it has no relevance to anything that I’ve mentioned so far. Why? What exactly is it that you think requires lab results? Do you not accept that the ACE-K in EN-43 provides less than 1% of the RDA for potassium? If that’s the case, then it would follow that you can’t understand basic math, because it’s really simple and I laid it out so clearly that any average high school student would get it. I can’t conceive of any lab test that would have any bearing on my assertion, or any reason why I would want to waste my money on such a pointless exercise. Can you?
Susan (in reply to Lazy Man’s comment about oatmeal) said: “As seen here, US Oat consumption as stayed steady and then gone up in the last year: http://apps.fas.usda.gov/psdonline/circulars/grain-corn-coarsegrains.pdf”
Did you not realize that this data pertains to global oat consumption (including animal feed), not oatmeal consumption? They are so far from analogous it’s ridiculous. Stop grasping at straws. You are embarrassing yourself.
Vogel Said “No, what you did was to create a strawman argument by claiming that I said something that I never said and then alleging that it was flat wrong. I never even remotely implied that ACE-K is the only source of potassium in the product. It’s clearly not according to the label, and in one of my previous analyses I even specified the exact amount of potassium listed on the label. How/why on earth would you misrepresent my position so badly unless it was on purpose or you have a serious reading comprehension impairment.”
You most certainly did. After writing a thesis around random yevo representative quotes, you conclude: “Therefore a serving of Yevo with its teensy 13.8 mg of potassium would provide a trivially insignificant 0.4% of the RDA.”
Anyone with an 8th grade education can read what you presented in the a-fore-mentioned string of comments and see that you were trying to make the argument that the only source of potassium is the artificial sweetener mentioned.
I found your reference to cyanide, while arbitrary and capricious, to be comical.
Vogel said “You keep reiterating this foolish challenge even though it has no relevance to anything that I’ve mentioned so far. Why? What exactly is it that you think requires lab results? Do you not accept that the ACE-K in EN-43 provides less than 1% of the RDA for potassium?”
I keep re-iterating this because you can’t seem to follow very simple logic unless it is your own. You very clearly state that the only source of potassium in Yevo smoothie is a sweetener. The nutritional label for this product states otherwise.
You justify your logic by stringing together out of context snippets from marketing material. You then ran some irrelevant chemical math computations in an effort to somehow re-enforce your conclusions. It doesn’t take a mental giant to see that none of this makes any sense what so ever.
I’m saying that for your argument to hold any water (i.e., the sweetener is the only source of potassium), that you need to show some lab results.
Vogel said “Did you not realize that this data pertains to global oat consumption (including animal feed), not oatmeal consumption? They are so far from analogous it’s ridiculous. Stop grasping at straws. You are embarrassing yourself.”
I did not state that this report showed consumption of oatmeal. What I said was that this report showed a trend in the consumption of oat products. If you looked at the report, you’ll see a table that shows US Oat Consumption over the last several years.
I was using this report as one source to backup my claim that oat consumption has increased. I admit that this specific report is rather broad, but it does establish an overall trend. There is reference in this report to increased whole grain consumption, which speaks to what we are discussing.
Are you saying I’m incorrect in my statement that oatmeal consumption is on the rise in recent years?
Quite clearly, you are either a faculty member at a university somewhere or a researcher. Only this sub-set of our society takes to insults and lengthy strings of arbitrary text in an attempt to prove the other wrong. I have a good friend who went from private practice to the university system as a PhD and he said he’d never seen a group of more childish and backbiting people in his life.
Susan,
Vogel’s comment started with “More detailed follow-up on ACE-K is in order” and as you say continued at length to discuss ACE-K and the amount of potassium in it. The sentence that you pick out of context starts with “Therefore” which means you need to consider that previous context. An 8th grader would clearly understand that. Vogel did not make the mistake you are accusing him of… your (lack of) reading comprehension to follow the context has failed you.
You are so quick to try to take Vogel’s comment out of context to try to find any flaw that you miss the overall point. They are marketing ACE-K as a significant source of potassium, which Vogel has shown through math and an independent source, it is not. That’s proven two different ways that Yevo is misleading you with their marketing. Yevo seems to be resorting to a “because we said so” argument and not proving it to be a significant source in anything that I’ve read.
While we are on the topic of artificial sweeteners, I decided to do a little looking on the internet. This Yevo distributor had an article: Like GMOs, Industry Wants to Hide Artificial Sweeteners in Foods!
Can we at least objectively agree and establish that’s what Yevo is does exactly that on their EN43 label by putting ACE-K under the heading of “Essential Vitamin and Mineral Blend” in this product label?
Lazyman wrote: “Vogel did not make the mistake you are accusing him of… your (lack of) reading comprehension to follow the context has failed you.”
Vogel’s rants about Yevo are littered with mistakes and half truths, thus my comment about throwing the box of car parts in the air.
I already pointed out the one about the sweetener being the only source of potassium
Another is his comments that Acesulfame potassium is a carcinogen. The FDA has concluded otherwise: “Critics say acesulfame potassium has not been studied adequately and may be carcinogenic, although these claims have been dismissed by the FDA and equivalent authorities in the European Union.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acesulfame_potassium
I could keep going on showing where he’s made inaccurate statements, but unlike Vogel (as a likely government worker) I am not getting paid by the tax payers to come on here and write thesis length debate.
Lazyman said “While we are on the topic of artificial sweeteners, I decided to do a little looking on the internet. This Yevo distributor had an article: Like GMOs, Industry Wants to Hide Artificial Sweeteners in Foods!”
You seem to be implying that Yevo is hiding the fact that they are using artificial sweeteners in their products.
There is no basis what so ever for this claim. Even Vogel, which his out of context quoting of Yevo marketing material, managed to find a very recent presentation by Chip Marsland where he very clearly states that Yevo is using a non-sugar sweetener in some of their products.
How is this misleading?
Susan said,
“Vogel’s rants about Yevo are littered with mistakes and half truths, thus my comment about throwing the box of car parts in the air. I already pointed out the one about the sweetener being the only source of potassium.”
Except Vogel never said any such thing. You picked one sentence and took it out of the context which gave you the wrong interpretation. There was no half-truth at all.
Susan said, “Another is his comments that Acesulfame potassium is a carcinogen.”
A lot has been written by Vogel, but I have not seen anything saying that Acesulfame potassium (Ace-K) is a carcinogen. Can you give us a specific quote like you did when you took the sentence out of context and came to a false conclusion?
Yes, you should probably keep going, because so far as I can verify you are wrong on both accounts.
Susan said, “You seem to be implying that Yevo is hiding the fact that they are using artificial sweeteners in their products.”
Rather than speculate what I’m implying, why don’t you follow what I wrote on the very next sentence after your quote: “Can we at least objectively agree and establish that’s what Yevo is does exactly that on their EN43 label by putting ACE-K under the heading of “Essential Vitamin and Mineral Blend” in this product label?”
Why don’t you answer the question that I asked?
Food labeling is important. People don’t hear a presentation of Chip Marsland when they look at a product. Let’s not make excuses for Big Food to say one thing and put something different on the food label.
I just thought I’d point out another of Vogel’s incorrect statements because of how glaring it is. He states “By deduction, Yevo is either lying when they say that they add ACE-K to their products or lying on their product label by failing to identify ACE-K as an ingredient.”
I just now took a picture of the label on the back of a bag of the Yevo Smoothie I received last week and it clearly shows ACE-K: http://tinypic.com/r/2s803dv/9
The list of false statements just goes on and on.
[Editor’s Response: Vogel said on January 12, 2016 at 12:48 am, “I did manage confirm that ACE-K is in fact included in the EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder. The reason I didn’t see it on the first go around is that they listed it under a subsection of ingredients with the misleading title ‘Essential Vitamin and Mineral Blend’.”
If your reading comprehension wasn’t so bad you’d have seen that he corrected himself more than 2 days ago and that his error was due to Yevo’s deceptive labeling.
Once again you have nothing against Vogel, but you shined a spotlight on Yevo’s apparent deception. How brainwashed by Yevo can you be?]
Lazyman said : “Food labeling is important. People don’t hear a presentation of Chip Marsland when they look at a product. Let’s not make excuses for Big Food to say one thing and put something different on the food label.”
Seriously? Where in the FDA labeling regulation does it say that a company can’t group ingredients together and say this is out “X” blend?
The regulations clearly state that the label just has to include all ingredients.
Now you are just splitting hairs.
I don’t think it’s splitting hairs when something that known to be a sweetener and not a significant source of vitamins or minerals is hidden in the vitamin and mineral blend section. It seems to me that this is the kind of thing that the Yevo distributor was arguing that OTHER companies do – implying that Yevo is better than that.
Lazyman said “Except Vogel never said any such thing. You picked one sentence and took it out of the context which gave you the wrong interpretation. There was no half-truth at all.”
If that’s not what he meant, then what is the point of the debate? Marsland said Yevo picked a sweetener with potassium in it because people don’t get enough of it so we are trying to give them as much as possible.
Explain to me what the point of this debate is then if Dr. Vogel isn’t saying ACE-K is the only source of potassium?
Here is what we know to be fact:
1. Yevo Smootie includes Acesulfame potassium.
2. Yevo’s product label states it includes Acesulfame potassium.
3. The website FAQ states Yevo uses Acesulfame potassium for its non-sugar sweetener.
4. Marsland said Yevo uses Acesulfame potassium and why.
What’s the debate or conspiracy here? A 5th grader could understand this.
You still think after reading Vogel’s extensive math about the potassium in ACE-K that he was talking about the amount of potassium in Yevo’s product. You call him a researcher and refer to him as “Dr. Vogel” and you can’t understand the context of the passage.
Here is what I understand to be fact (correct me if I’m wrong)
1. Yevo Smootie includes Acesulfame potassium.
(No one debates this useless point.)
2. Yevo’s product label states it includes Acesulfame potassium.
(Yevo hides the sweetener under a misleading “vitamin and mineral blend” label instead of telling the consumer it is an artificial sweetener.)
3. The website FAQ states Yevo uses Acesulfame potassium for its non-sugar sweetener.
(That FAQ says, “Acesulfame potassium, or Ace K (so named because K is the symbol for potassium), is a sweet potassium salt that contains about 20 percent potassium. It’s the only sweetener on the planet that has a sweet flavor and contains potassium.” This gives the impression to the consumer that it is a significant source of potassium, yet it delivers very little to the products.)
4. Marsland said Yevo uses Acesulfame potassium and why.
(Marsland says, “it provides dual functionality to our products because it actually can provide potassium, which is important for us because we want to hit as much potassium from any source we possibly can, every chance we get. But it also provides a little sweetness because this potassium salt’s actually sweet.” This implies that the product is chosen first because of its amount of potassium and secondly because it provides “a little sweetness.” My understanding, and again correctly me if I’m wrong, ACE-K is almost entirely a sweetener (not “a little”) and an insignificant source of potassium which if we are telling the whole truth should be disclosed as insignificant.
If you are looking for half-truths, I just found you three from your facts.
Point taken on Vogel later admitting he was wrong about saying Yevo wasn’t listing ACE-K in the ingredients label. I didn’t see that he admitted he was wrong.
Lazyman said “I don’t think it’s splitting hairs when something that known to be a sweetener and not a significant source of vitamins or minerals is hidden in the vitamin and mineral blend section. It seems to me that this is the kind of thing that the Yevo distributor was arguing that OTHER companies do – implying that Yevo is better than that.”
How is it hidden or misleading? It’s listed with the same size font as every other ingredient on the label.
I don’t think Yevo can do anything about people who can’t or won’t read their labels.
Susan said, “How is it hidden or misleading? It’s listed with the same size font as every other ingredient on the label. I don’t think Yevo can do anything about people who can’t or won’t read their labels.”
It is under the heading of a “vitamin and mineral blend” which is not where one looks for artificial sweeteners. Yevo could clearly take it out of this group and put it under its own heading of “artificial sweeteners.”
Lazyman said: “It is under the heading of a “vitamin and mineral blend” which is not where one looks for artificial sweeteners. Yevo could clearly take it out of this group and put it under its own heading of “artificial sweeteners.””
Kind of like the way Coka Cola lists “artificial sweeteners”?
https://36.media.tumblr.com/4e2a8a35037821756dca526b197e5054/tumblr_inline_nmx2meSAlA1r7hzzu_540.jpg
NOT.
No, your picture shows Coca Cola (if that’s what it is) listing all the ingredients without mention purpose with the exception where it clearly lists the preservative. They are all ingredients.
Yevo breaks down the ingredients into sections and misleading categorizes the ACE-K sweetener in the “vitamin and mineral blend.” Again, I have to ask how badly are you really brainwashed by Yevo?
For the record, even if Coca Cola also mislead consumers, their error does not absolve Yevo. A serial killer can’t say, “but there is another serial killer over there… so I’m not guilty.” To put it another way, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Lazyman said “For the record, even if Coca Cola also mislead consumers, their error does not absolve Yevo. A serial killer can’t say, “but there is another serial killer over there… so I’m not guilty.” To put it another way, two wrongs don’t make a right.”
Right now you are arguing minutia.
Where in the FDA labeling guidelines does it say that ingredients need to be broken down into sections and then how these sections are to be organized?
Yevo states they use an artificial sweetener on their website and in their marketing materials. The sweetener is listed per FDA guidelines on the label. What part of this is deceptive?
I have to ask you how deranged you are getting looking for conspiracy theories in network marketing companies?
I’m not an expert on the FDA labeling guidelines. Most labels I’ve seen don’t break them down into sections like Yevo En43.
However, when they are broken down into sections, the expectation is that the section heading is representative of the use and purpose of the products included in that heading. That’s not necessarily FDA labeling guidelines (though it might be included in there – again I’m not claiming expertise), but it’s simply how headings and titles work. If I title an article, “Is Yevo a Scam?” and proceed to write about MonaVie being great, it’s pretty deceptive right?
If a company puts a title of “vitamin and mineral blend” and proceeds to include to include sweeteners with negligible vitamin or mineral value, it certainly doesn’t seem to be minutia to me.
Keep in mind that this is just one small part of the many, many things that have already been discussed here.
Derangement in looking for conspiracy theories in network marketing companies? Are you serious? Every network marketing company I have ever looked at is a conspiracy to make people think they have a marketable product, when in fact the affiliates/ambassadors/IBOs/whatevertitletheycameupwiths are, in fact, 99% of the market. The entire “industry” is made up of conspiracies to lighten the wallets of gullible and desperate people.
Also, arguing minutia to distract from the con in the bread and butter of MLMers.
And just for the record, you arguing with Vogel is like watching one of the old Harlem Globetrotters games. You are so outclassed it is starting to lose it’s entertainment value.
I’m not the brightest candle in Oregon, but even I can understand the two sides of this argument, and you come across as desperate and dishonest.
Lazyman said: “However, when they are broken down into sections, the expectation is that the section heading is representative of the use and purpose of the products included in that heading.”
There is no such direction that I can see in the FDA nutritional guidelines, which are in pretty plain english. http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/GuidanceDocumentsRegulatoryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm2006828.htm
There is guidance in the supplements section of the guidelines that speaks to grouping: “You must list the dietary ingredients that have Daily Values in the same order as for the labels of conventional foods, except that vitamins, minerals and electrolytes are grouped together. This results in the following order for vitamins and minerals: Vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin E, vitamin K, thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, vitamin B6, folate, vitamin B12, biotin, pantothenic acid, calcium, iron, phosphorus, iodine, magnesium, zinc, selenium, copper, manganese, chromium, molybdenum, chloride, sodium, and potassium.”
Perhaps Yevo felt that they needed to adhere to this section of the guidelines or perhaps legal council directed them to follow this section of the guidelines.
It appears to me that the nutrient labels are formatted specifically to follow the guideline listed above.
Perhaps Yevo did feel that way, maybe you can get them to come here and explain it. You have their ear.
Your quotation doesn’t seem applicable to ACE-K. ACE-K isn’t considered a vitamin or mineral, but an artificial sweetener… Yevo’s Marsland calls it that in the previously mentioned presentation… and Yevo’s FAQ confirms it.
Let’s not speculate on what Yevo’s legal counsel might have done… especially when the speculation is that they instructed Yevo to mislead consumers by putting a sweetener under a vitamin/mineral heading. I feel like we need to have more proof before we pin the deception on Yevo’s legal counsel.
Susan said: “After writing a thesis around random yevo representative quotes, you conclude: “Therefore a serving of Yevo with its teensy 13.8 mg of potassium would provide a trivially insignificant 0.4% of the RDA.”
First of all, let’s put this into its proper context. My analysis pertained to Marsland’s claims implying that the ACE-K in a serving of Yevo provides a significant amount of potassium (and I proved that it doesn’t); not whether the Yevo product itself provides a significant amount of potassium. I made that clear from the outset when I stated:
“So let’s begin by deconstructing the argument that the ACE-K in Yevo EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder serves as a significant dietary source of potassium.”
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312443
Despite the premise being clearly stated and obvious, it may not have been as clear from that particular line of text you quoted out of context, but the conclusion was reiterated in the very next line in my comment, which you failed to include in your excerpt:
“So what does it say about Yevo when they… repeatedly misrepresent ACE-K as though it’s a significant source of potassium.”
I never said that Yevo didn’t have a significant amount of potassium in it (although it’s not clear whether it does); just that the ACE-K component doesn’t provide a significant amount and, therefore, Marsden’s claims were misleading, as is the company’s practice of burying ACE-K in a separate ingredient list of vitamins and minerals (it is neither) and claiming that their products don’t contain artificial flavoring (ACE-K is in fact FDA-approved solely as a sweetener/flavoring agent). None of it was difficult to follow. You simply pretended that it was because you are dishonest and don’t want to own up to any criticism, no matter how well founded, because it conflicts with your financial interests (i.e., ripping people off like you did with Monavie).
It’s worth pointing out for the record that while the EN-43 Not-A-Smoothie Label shows the percentage RDA that the product provides with respect to 10 different minerals, it does not list potassium among them. As a result, it is unclear whether their product provides any of the RDA for potassium. The default assumption, based on the label, would be that it doesn’t.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png
Susan said: “Anyone with an 8th grade education can read what you presented in the a-fore-mentioned (sic) string of comments and see that you were trying to make the argument that the only source of potassium is the artificial sweetener mentioned.”
Quite the contrary, as I have already shown. You are trying to create confusion where none existed.
Susan said: “I found your reference to cyanide, while arbitrary and capricious, to be comical.”
What was comical was the comment Marsland made – the one to which I was responding in the comment you are referring to – where he claimed that we need to get “as much potassium from any source we possibly can, every chance we get.” I pointed out the inanity of Marsland’s statement using potassium chloride, potassium sorbate, and potassium cyanide as an example, and concluded that, obviously, the source of potassium matters greatly and that “the sources of potassium must in fact be highly selective.”
Susan said: “You very clearly state that the only source of potassium in Yevo smoothie is a sweetener. The nutritional label for this product states otherwise.”
Again, you’re doubling down on a ‘pants-on-fire’-level lie. Shame on you. I never said anything like that nor would I have any reason to.
Susan said: “I did not state that this report showed consumption of oatmeal. What I said was that this report showed a trend in the consumption of oat products. If you looked at the report, you’ll see a table that shows US Oat Consumption over the last several years. I was using this report as one source to backup my claim that oat consumption has increased. I admit that this specific report is rather broad, but it does establish an overall trend. There is reference in this report to increased whole grain consumption, which speaks to what we are discussing. Are you saying I’m incorrect in my statement that oatmeal consumption is on the rise in recent years?”
This trivial line of discussion (i.e., the dead horse you insist on beating) started when you quoted a 3-year old news article and claimed: “oatmeal is has (sic) been, and is, becoming more popular as a breakfast food.” When Lazy Man pointed out that your article was outdated and therefore not reliable as an indicator of recent trends in oatmeal consumption, you came back and posted a report about global oat consumption, which I pointed out was irrelevant to oatmeal consumption because the data included oats as animal feed, aside from the fact that oats are consumed by people in many forms aside from oatmeal.
Susan said: “Quite clearly, you are either a faculty member at a university somewhere or a researcher.”
Why do you grasp at straws so? Is it because you have been outed you as a remorseless serial offending MLM snakeoil con artist who fraudulently profited by selling Monavie’s “expensive flavored water”, and now you feel the need to try to get revenge by inventing theories about who I am? Your accusation is the opposite of “quite clear”; it is nothing more than a fabrication on your part.
Lazyman said “Perhaps Yevo did feel that way, maybe you can get them to come here and explain it. You have their ear.”
I didn’t say I had their ear. I do know that they initially released the smoothie last fall and then pulled it because there was some kind of an issue between the nutrient label and the actual product. They fixed it and re-released it very recently.
If you have a question, why don’t you email them and ask? You seem really worried about the label. Ask them. Maybe they will change it if there’s an issue.
Susan said, “I didn’t say I had their ear… If you have a question, why don’t you email them and ask?”
You are a Yevo distributor right? I think you did say that. I am giving Yevo the benefit of the doubt that they have a process in place for their salespeople to get questions answered. If Yevo does not have that system in place (i.e. you don’t have their ear), we can add it to the list of Yevo’s deficiencies.
You were the one making the speculations, so I was suggesting you use that process to confirm your own speculations. I don’t have questions… it is clear to me.
Susan said: “Another is his comments that Acesulfame potassium is a carcinogen.”
So how long are you going to play this beat-the-strawman game of inventing statements that I didn’t actually say and attacking them? I never said anything remotely resembling what you have attributed to me. Shame on you.
Susan said: “I could keep going on showing where he’s made inaccurate statements, but unlike Vogel (as a likely government worker) I am not getting paid by the tax payers to come on here and write thesis length debate.”
Keep going? You haven’t even shown one legitimate example. And again you are inventing theories about my occupation? First you said I was “clearly” a professor; now it’s a “likely” government worker. Just stop lest you embarrass yourself any further. You know full well that my occupation, whatever it may be, has no bearing on Yevo’s illegitimacy.
Susan said: “You seem to be implying that Yevo is hiding the fact that they are using artificial sweeteners in their products.”
I didn’t “imply” anything. The deception I was referring to was described explicitly. They buried ACE-K on the label among a separate list of ingredients titled “vitamin and mineral blend”, even though ACE-K is neither a vitamin nor a mineral. That is deceptive. It was also deceptive when Yevo suggested that the ACE-K in their quasi-smoothie powder provided a significant source of potassium, and that the product did not contain artificial flavoring (which is exactly what ACE-K happens to be).
Susan said: “I just thought I’d point out another of Vogel’s incorrect statements because of how glaring it is. He states “By deduction, Yevo is either lying when they say that they add ACE-K to their products or lying on their product label by failing to identify ACE-K as an ingredient.”
Wow! That’s some sleuthing Susan. You were able to catch that only 2 days after I brought it to everyone’s attention and explained the statement in a follow-up post. Halfwit! This is what I said in my follow-up comment on Jan 12.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312443
“More detailed follow-up on ACE-K is in order. First of all, recall that I had stated that it was unclear whether ACE-K was added to Yevo’s oatmeal, based on the fact that it wasn’t listed on the ingredient panel, and I said that by deduction, it could be concluded that it either wasn’t in the product or that they simply failed to include ACE-K on the label despite its presence in the product. Well, while this still isn’t clear with the oatmeal, I did manage confirm that ACE-K is in fact included in the EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder. The reason I didn’t see it on the first go around is that they listed it under a subsection of ingredients with the misleading title “Essential Vitamin and Mineral Blend”.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312443
Another problem, which I didn’t bother mentioning at the time, is that the resolution of the ingredient label that Yevo posts online is so laughably poor that it’s barely legible. If Yevo’s goal was to make it as hard as possible for people to identify ACE-K as an ingredient in their product, short of writing it in invisible ink, then they succeeded.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png
Susan said: “Seriously? Where in the FDA labeling regulation does it say that a company can’t group ingredients together and say this is out “X” blend?
That’s the first time anyone brought up the possibility that their labeling could be illegal; I merely said that it was deceptive, which is bad enough. The answer to your question lies in the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations, so have at it. I can say for certain that in Canada, it would be illegal to label ACE-K the way Yevo does.
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/labelling/food-labelling-for-industry/sweeteners/eng/1387749708758/1387750396304?chap=2
Because you raised this serious area of concern, it probably is a good idea to bring this to the FDAs attention. While you’re digging through the CFR, a complaint can be filed about the ACE-K issue, and then over the next few days, a few more complaints about their misleading medical treatment claims and whatever else may come up; perhaps a note to the FTC as well. The online reporting system are so easy, anyone can do it. Thanks Susan! It takes a village!
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059315.htm
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=67#crnt
Susan said: “Marsland said Yevo picked a sweetener with potassium in it because people don’t get enough of it so we are trying to give them as much as possible.”
Right, and the counterargument is that that statement is misleading because the sweetener they chose (and camouflaged on the label as a vitamin/mineral) would provide less than 1% of the RDA for potassium. Furthermore, as we just learned today, the label lists the RDA percentages for 10 minerals in the product, but potassium isn’t listed among them. Based on that, the default assumption would be that it doesn’t provide any of the RDA for potassium.
Susan said: “Explain to me what the point of this debate is then if Dr. Vogel isn’t saying ACE-K is the only source of potassium?”
Um, no! It has now been explained to you at least 10 times already, so if by some stretch of the imagination you still don’t get it, too damn bad. You don’t get to use this board as your personal litter box and send people on endless tail-chasing exercises. It’s not in your best interest to overtax people’s patience and goodwill, as they’ll just defer these matters directly to the appropriate authorities, like the FDA and FTC.
Adam said: “And just for the record, you arguing with Vogel is like watching one of the old Harlem Globetrotters games. You are so outclassed it is starting to lose it’s entertainment value.”
ROFL! Susan is the Washington Generals! Ouch! Sweet Georgia Brown!!!
Vogel said: “This trivial line of discussion (i.e., the dead horse you insist on beating) started when you quoted a 3-year old news article and claimed: “oatmeal is has (sic) been, and is, becoming more popular as a breakfast food.” When Lazy Man pointed out that your article was outdated and therefore not reliable as an indicator of recent trends in oatmeal consumption, you came back and posted a report about global oat consumption, which I pointed out was irrelevant to oatmeal consumption because the data included oats as animal feed, aside from the fact that oats are consumed by people in many forms aside from oatmeal.”
Why must even the most elementary facts be arguments with you guys? I could say the sky is blue and you’d say I am wrong simply because a network marketer made the statement.
Here is an article from 2015 that backs up both the 2013 article and the trends in the report I posted (which Vogel seems to feel is about horse feed): http://wholegrainscouncil.org/newsroom/most-americans-now-make-half-their-grains-whole
Note that oatmeal is the second highest consumed whole grain product consumed by Americans.
Vogel said: Why do you grasp at straws so? Is it because you have been outed you as a remorseless serial offending MLM snakeoil con artist who fraudulently profited by selling Monavie’s “expensive flavored water”, and now you feel the need to try to get revenge by inventing theories about who I am? Your accusation is the opposite of “quite clear”; it is nothing more than a fabrication on your part.”
I thought we weren’t supposed to talk about Monavie in this thread. I have respected Lazyman’s request not to bring it up again, but you’ve done so twice since he asked us not to.
Out of respect for Lazyman’s request not to talk about Monavie, I won’t respond to your comments about it.
I’m not grasping at straws about your profession. There no doubt in my mind about this fact.
Susan,
It is okay to mention MonaVie to make a point about Yevo. Or in the case that Vogel used, establish that you previously supported snake oil that was outed as expensive flavored water.
It isn’t okay to write a series of comments about the history of MonaVie to take the focus away from Yevo.
Susan said: “…After writing a thesis around random yevo representative quotes, you conclude…”
This is how you characterize a 120-word, 38-second verbatim unedited quote directly from the company’s “Chief Scientist and Formulator” Chip Marsland???
Your dishonesty really is appalling. But at least we learn something every time we witness you shooting yourself in the foot. It helps shine a light on the modus operandi and mindset of MLM snakeoil thieves for all to see. You suck so bad that people who stumble onto this site and read your dishonest half-witted comments will recoil in horror. Go Team Yevo (aka the Washington Generals of MLM)!
[13:14 – 13:52] Marsland: “For those that do like sugar, a sweet tasting product, we are coming out with a no-sugar added product and this one uses, you know, something that I actually brought to the table. And it’s a product called acesulfame potassium. It’s also known as ACE-K. Now, most people don’t know this and it’s actually an important thing to know – but it’s a potassium salt. And I looked at it as twofold: it provides dual functionality to our products because it actually can provide potassium, which is important for us because we want to hit as much potassium from any source we possibly can, every chance we get. But it also provides a little sweetness because this potassium salt’s actually sweet.”
https://www.yevo43.com/episode-1-it-only-gets-better/#sthash.oIAK01gC.dpuf
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312443
Susan said: “Anyone with an 8th grade education can read what you presented in the a-fore-mentioned (sic) string of comments and see that you were trying to make the argument that…”
Anyone with a 7th-grade education knows not to put two hyphens in the word “aforementioned”. It’s not my usual M.O. to nitpick details like this, especially with so many bigger fish to fry, but since you made the mistake while insulting my education, you more or less leaped onto the sword. You couldn’t possibly brandish your stupidity more brazenly than you have over the past few days. It’s priceless unintentional comedy.
I wanted to address a couple other false statements previously made here.
1. Vogel states that the Yevo Rice Cereal is in fact “Gruel”. The definition of Gruel: “Gruel is basically a thin porridge or soup.”(See webster) In fact, the Yevo rice cereal is about as far from the any receipt for gruel one can find as a cereal can get. See this example: http://www.mrbreakfast.com/ask.asp?askid=10 (Notice that this is comprised of only 2 ingredients, which is common for 90% of gruel receipts). One look at the Yevo Rice Cereal ingredient list proves that this product is nothing like “gruel”. Vogel seems to like to exaggerate things he disagrees with to an unreasonable extreme. As I showed with the sweetener debate over the last few days, these gruel statements are entirely incorrect as well. The Yevo Rice Cereal is in fact a high quality Non-GMO breakfast cereal product, plus all of the added nutrient benefits of the meal replacement shakes we’ve been talking about (actually nearly 1.5 times nutrient serving sizes we’ve been talking about).
2. Vogel and Lazyman claim you can only get the breakfast cereals at $6/serving and this is several hundred percent over what it is worth. In fact, one can buy the cereal products at $4-$4.50/serving at the preferred customer price (plus free shipping). As I pointed out, this cereal includes about 1.5 times the nutrients of the Yevo Smoothie. In fact, when one eats this product she is getting the nutrients of a very large meal replacement shake plus a high quality oatmeal cereal. I think we’ve all agreed here that a meal replacement shake is worth about $2/serving and that this is entirely fair and reasonable. Therefore, we have about $3 in nutrients (based upon meal replacement shakes) in the breakfast cereals. This leaves us with about $1-$1.50/serving for just the cereal parts (i.e., oats or rice). This is entirely reasonable for a high quality Non-GMO oat cereal: http://www.minsley.com/products.php
Susan said, “I wanted to address a couple other false statements previously made here.”
1) She then goes into Vogel’s use of the word “gruel.” From Wikipedia the definition is “Gruel is a type of food consisting of some type of cereal—oat, wheat or rye flour, or rice—boiled in water or milk.”
This seems to be an accurate definition of Yevo’s rice cereal. I don’t see how you can call it “false” or “incorrect.” It seems you simply have differing opinions about the connotations of the word.
2) The retail pricing is indeed $6/serving and not “false” or “incorrect.” Preferred customer pricing has been discussed for probably 50 previous comments. As I’ve pointed out previously, a lot of retail sales need to be made for it not to fit the FTC guidelines of being a pyramid scheme. Thus it is accurate to focus on the retail pricing of $6/serving.
Susan said, “As I pointed out, this cereal includes about 1.5 times the nutrients of the Yevo Smoothie…”
This is where you’d be using false logic to support pricing. Most of the shake pricing is in the cost of protein. Yevo’s oatmeal has LESS protein than the Yevo’s not-a-smoothie, not 1.5 more. As Vogel has pointed out fortification with vitamins is just a few cents. This is why Total Cereal doesn’t cost 10 times more than Frosted Flakes. If this was the way things worked, I could sell a 30-day bottle of multi-vitamins for hundreds of dollars and say, “based upon meal replacement shake pricing this is fair for all these nutrients.”
The fact that you went through all this false logic to try to get a non-organic oatmeal up to a $4-4.50 serving range is laughable. I look forward to hearing the logic that you use to stretching it to $6 to justify that pricing. (I really don’t look forward to it, but I’m trying to remain polite here.)
Susan, I would remind you that you are a guest in this forum and if you have problems with my policies you do not need to post.
I obviously allow people to have their say as long as they provide useful information on the topic of Yevo.
When I was a kid, I would use gruel to describe all sorts of unpleasant food not related to thickness of porridge at all. If anything Vogel is using it far more correctly than most people do.
I suggest that you review your future comments before posting to make sure that they are truly leading a useful discussion on Yevo.
I half suspect that you are Joe Blace/Frank Smith/Alex Severn back again, but that character at least made something resembling intelligent comments.
First, a quick clarification is in order regarding the total amount of potassium in Yevo’s EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder. Recall that I had mentioned that the EN-43 label did not list potassium in the panel that specifies the percentage RDA for the other 10 minerals in the product; i.e., I said:
“While the EN-43 Not-A-Smoothie Label shows the percentage RDA that the product provides with respect to 10 different minerals, it does not list potassium among them. As a result, it is unclear whether their product provides any of the RDA for potassium. The default assumption, based on the label, would be that it doesn’t”.
While the first part is true (the label does not show potassium among the panel of 10 minerals), I just noticed that another panel on the label does in fact list the exact amount of potassium in mg and the percentage of the RDA value (more on that later).
http://www.wholesomenutrition4u.com/15-YEV-0044_Chocolate_Smoothie_M3_nutrientpanel.pdf
So it clearly does contain a significant amount of potassium (either 1350 mg or 1750 mg, as discussed further below); however, as I had previously stated, ACE-K, in contrast with the company’s claims, does not provide a significant amount of the potassium (less than 1% RDA) in the product.
Now to fry bigger fish. I noticed several very interesting details while I was digging into this.
First, it was surprisingly difficult to find nutrition labels for the not-a-smoothies. The Yevo product ordering page provides fairly easy-to-find links to the nutrition labels for virtually all of their products (i.e., click on the product link and then follow the red hyperlink titled ‘Nutrition Facts Panel’)…
https://myyevo.com/shop
…with the notable exception of the EN-43 not-a-smoothie powder, which does not provide any such link or any detailed information about ingredients and amounts.
https://myyevo.com/shop/products/en43-smoothie-chocolate-4027vus
The only way I was able to find the label was by doing a Google search for “Yevo smoothie”, which brings up this (horribly designed) webpage, and if you scroll to near the bottom, you’ll see a link that says “Check out our ingredients and nutrient fact panel”…
…and that link leads to this low-res (38-KB PNG image file) version of the label, which we have been using as the basis for our discussions for the past week or so (this is the same link that one of the Yevo trolls posted a while back too). Finding it is not an insurmountable task for an intrepid researcher, but unjustifiably difficult and inconvenient from a consumer’s perspective.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png
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The caveat with that label is that it is for the ‘no-sugar added’ chocolate version of the not-a-smoothie powder, rather than the standard (regular-sugar) Chocolate version that they also sell. That label does not mention anywhere that it is the no-sugar version, but you can tell that that’s in fact what it is because the artificial sweetener ACE-K is listed among the ingredients and the label indicates a sugar content of only 3 g. This error of omission struck me as odd to say the least, since the webpage with the nutrient panel link (just like the label itself) mentions nothing about this being the no-sugar version.
Here’s where things get really interesting. Despite searching high and low, I never was able to find a label that gave a breakdown for the regular (sugar-containing) version of the powder – that is, until today; and I found it entirely by accident buried on a distributor webpage (I say buried because there does not appear to be any hyperlink to it anywhere on the distributor’s website).
http://www.wholesomenutrition4u.com/15-YEV-0044_Chocolate_Smoothie_M3_nutrientpanel.pdf
So aside from the fact that Yevo makes it as difficult as possible to find nutrient information about their not-a-smoothie powders, and that they have created needless confusion about the ingredients in the different versions of the product (no-sugar vs regular), presumably on purpose, what’s really remarkable is how different the two versions are with respect to nutrient profiles and ingredients/amounts. The major nutritional differences between the no-sugar versus regular versions are as follows:
Calories: 230 vs 210
Cholesterol: 50 mg vs 40 mg
Sodium: 130 mg vs 55 mg
Potassium: 1350 mg vs 1750 mg
Total carbs: 10 g vs 20 g
Sugars: 3 g vs 14 g
Protein: 30 g vs 25 g
Choline (%RDA): 34% vs 50%
Omega-6 FA: 2 g vs 1.5 g
Some rather dramatic differences there. I also found it quite surprising that the no-sugar version is higher in calories. Another key difference is that while the no-added-sugar version contains only 35% to 40% of the RDA for 21 of the vitamins and minerals listed (exceptions are calcium, 50%; iron, 60%; phosphorous, 45%; and chloride, 8%), the regular version provides 50% RDA for all of those same nutrients (except chloride, 2%).
There are also significant differences between the products with respect to the actual ingredient list, which by law must list the ingredients in descending order of the amount present in the product. For example, the ingredients listed under the heading “Essential Protein Amino Blend” differ as follows:
No-Sugar: Whey Protein Concentrate, Nonfat Milk Powder, L-Leucine, L-Lysine, L-Valine, L-Isoleucine, L-Threonine, L-Histidine, L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine, L-Methionine, L-Arginine, L-Cysteine, L-Tryptophan.
Regular: Whey Protein Concentrate, L-Leucine, L-Lysine, L-Valine, L-Isoleucine, L-Threonine, L-Tyrosine, L-Phenylalanine, L-Histidine, L-Methionine, L-Arginine, L-Tryptophan, L-Cysteine.
Notice that the no-sugar version lists milk powder as the second ingredient, while the regular version lists no milk powder among the ingredients. They also differ with respect to the relative amounts of amino acids such as histidine (6th in the order of amino acids listed for the no-sugar version vs 8th for regular) and cysteine (11th vs 12th).
With respect to the “Essential Carbohydrate Blend” ingredients, the regular version lists turbinado sugar as #1 on the list, whereas the no-sugar version (not surprisingly) does not. The no-sugar version also lists soy fiber, guar gum, and oat powder, while the regular version lists cocoa powder, inulin fiber, oat fiber, and xanthan gum (which is a substitute thickener for guar gum). Cocoa powder, oddly enough is listed as part of the “Carbohydrate Blend” on the label of the regular version but is listed under the “Natural Flavor” heading in the no-sugar version, which also includes vanilla and sea salt (and these are not listed at all anywhere on the label of the regular version). Lastly, the “Essential Fatty Acid Blend” ingredients include cream powder in the no-sugar version but not in the original version.
In the list of “Vitamin and Mineral Blend” ingredients, the low-sugar version shows calcium lactate as the number 1 ingredient, while the original version uses a different form of calcium salt (calcium carbonate), which is listed as the 3rd ingredient in the list. The latter’s lower ranking for calcium and higher ranking for the potassium salts makes sense since it contains more potassium (1750 mg) than the no-sugar version (1350 mg). But what’s important to recognize here is that they use different forms of calcium altogether.
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The label of the regular version also contains some other very interesting tidbits, such as:
1. The preparation instructions specify that the product is to be reconstituted in milk or soy milk; it does not mention reconstitution in water. This is relevant because, as I noted before, ingredients like milk and fruit are add-on costs that must be factored in when determining relative value (e.g., when comparing to a product like Boost), and also add additional calories. This also has bearing on the company’s claim that the product provides 43 Essential Nutrients, since they include water as one of the 43, and apparently the closest that water ever gets to this product is in the form of the milk/soy milk that the consumer has to add to it — a minor deception perhaps, but a deception nonetheless, since milk and water are not synonymous/interchangeable.
2. The label specifies that the amount of milk/soy milk to be added to the powder is 8 ounces (240 mL). This has implications for my previous estimates about the amount of potassium contributed by the ACE-K in a serving of Yevo. I had estimated about 71 mg ACE-K and 13.8 mg of ACE-K-derived potassium based on a 12-ounce (354 mL) serving. The amount of ACE-K and ACE-K-derived potassium would in fact be 25% lower: (i.e., only about 48 mg ACE-K and 9.8 mg of ACE-K-derived potassium (0.3 % of RDA) in an 8-ounce serving. I had also provided a corroborating source that stated the amount of potassium in a packet of ACE-K was 10 mg, which means that my method of calculation would yield a result that’s off by a mere 2% (ain’t math grand?).
3. The label based its RDA for amino acids on “World Health Organization recommendations”. I am guessing that this is not OK since the WHO has no regulatory jurisdiction in the U.S. and guidelines for U.S. RDAs are set by the FDA. This could be a labeling violation, but I’ll have to dig into that a bit further.
The preceding analysis has a variety of significant implications. Chief among them, aside from the major differences in nutritional profiles between the not-a-smoothie versions, is that when ordering the product from the company’s webpage, the consumer seems to have no way of knowing whether they are getting the no-sugar version or the regular version. The necessary information to guide the choice, including the nutrition label, is absent from the ordering webpage. Even the company’s hard-copy product order form fails to distinguish between the two versions – they list only one chocolate “smoothie” available and it doesn’t specify which one it is.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/beta-weight-order-form.2.4.6.pdf
Worse still, one can only guess what the ingredients are in the “tropical” and “orange cream” flavors, which were first announced around May 2015. Good luck finding their nutritional labels online — I couldn’t.
Another apparent contradiction is that, while the regular-sugar version specifies that the product is to be reconstituted in either milk or soy milk (water is not mentioned as an option), this page claims “you add water”.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-compare-charts-20151103.pdf
More importantly, that same webpage also shows a product comparison specifying that their not-a-smoothie powder (version not specified) contains 30 g protein, 3 g sugar, 1750 mg potassium, and 55 mg sodium per serving. Yet we know from the labels that this is wrong and that no such version exists. The no-sugar version contains 30 g protein, 3 g sugar, 1350 mg potassium, and 130 mg sodium; the regular-sugar version contains 25 g protein, 14 g sugar, 1750 mg potassium, and 55 mg sodium. In other words, their characterization of the product is inaccurate and grossly misleading – they simply combined the best features (i.e., highest levels of protein and potassium, lowest levels of sugar and salt) of two different products to exaggerate the perceived nutritional value and create a completely false impression of what’s actually in either of them.
To make matters worse, a different page on the very same website shows a similar smoothie comparison chart, only this one specifies that the not-a-smoothie powder (version again not specified) contains 30 g protein, 1350 mg potassium, and 130 g sodium; which is consistent with the composition of the no-sugar version but is at odds with the version presented in their other misleading comparison chart.
https://www.yevo43.com/43-for-life/
And here’s yet another alternate version of the chart from the same website, and it gives the same misleading breakdown as in the first example above, but specifies that a serving provides 320 calories, when in fact the no-sugar and regular-sugar versions contain 230 and 210 calories respectively.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Breakfast_Lunch-Compare-Chart-20151103.pdf
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There is probably more that could be said about all of this, but the post is already long enough so I’ll wrap up for now and leave off with my final impressions about Yevo’s not-a-smoothie powder based on the preceding analysis.
1. There are very significant nutritional differences between the two versions of the product.
2. The company has done a terrible job at providing transparency to the consumer with respect to the contents of the two products and even which versions they will receive when ordering.
3. The company has even gone a step further and created marketing materials that contain false and misleading information, exaggerating the nutritional value of the product(s).
It’s bad enough (but not at all surprising for an MLM of such dubious provenance) that the company is lackadaisical and sloppy, but it is unforgivable that their marketing materials appear to be downright fraudulent.
I’ll close with one final example of how badly Yevo wants consumers to not have information about their products. Have a look at the mindbogglingly bad/confusing design of the crap webpage that they title “Knowledge”. Pages designed that badly basically tell the consumer “we hate you!”
https://www.yevo43.com/knowledge/
Vogel,
Good stuff about the not-a-smoothies. I wonder if maybe they were changing formulas and found that the no-sugar-added version was more marketable (more protein, less sugar/carbs). Is it possible that they only have this version and the other materials you found are from previous versions? (In my multi-tasking I couldn’t quite tell if they are selling both.)
As I previously stated, Yevo pulled the older version of the smoothies last fall and re-released the chocolate only version about a month ago. As far as I know, there will not be a version with sugar.
It cracks me up you all are so hung up on this potassium subject. Maybe Edward Snowden can help clarify this topic.
S
I wondered the same thing. It’s unclear whether they are still selling both versions. The sites where the product can be purchased don’t distinguish whether they are offering the no added sugar or regular version, and neither do their contradictory marketing materials. You’d think that prospective buyers of the product wouldn’t be left to wonder about such a fundamental detail. The lack of clarity suggests that the buyers don’t really care — e.g., if they were purchasing the product merely to qualify for sales commissions.
If they did replace an older version of the not-a-smoothie as Susan says, it doesn’t seem to have been around very long. It would be fair to criticize Yevo with a busted product launch.
Susan said: “As I previously stated, Yevo pulled the older version of the smoothies last fall and re-released the chocolate only version about a month ago.”
What exactly is a “chocolate-only version? That makes no sense whatsoever. On July 7, 2015 Jodi Unruh announced that Yevo was set to launch the EN-43 not-a-smoothie the following week (July 15). The nutritional details she provided show that she was referring to the regular sugar-added version (14 g sugar, 340 calories, 25 g protein). She also said that “you will have three fabulous flavors to choose from: Chocolate (my favorite), Tropical Infusion and Orange Cream.”
http://www.jodiunruh.com/blog/july-07th-2015
http://www.jodiunruh.com/uploads/3/7/5/1/37511179/3785344_orig.jpg
Then on November 12, 2015, Unruh announced that the “flagship” EN-43 not-a-smoothie was due to be released on November 20. She made no mention about an old version being discontinued nor did she mention that the new version differs from the original version. However, she did provide some nutritional details for the product but those details are misleading and represent a product that doesn’t seem to have ever actually existed; i.e., the ingredients represent a bastardized version combining aspects of both the no-sugar and regular-sugar versions – namely, 30 g protein, 1750 mg potassium, 55 mg sodium, and 3 g sugar – when in fact, the old version contains 25 g protein, 1750 mg potassium, 55 g sodium, and 14 g sugar, while the no-sugar version contains 30 g protein, 1350 mg potassium, 110 g sodium and 3 g sugar. Even Unruh doesn’t seem to know what was really in the product.
http://www.jodiunruh.com/blog/new-food-company-yevo-international-gets-ready-to-explode-with-the-release-of-en43-chocolate-smoothie
http://www.jodiunruh.com/uploads/3/7/5/1/37511179/9445141_orig.jpg
In addition, the sugar-added version provided 50% RDA of most vitamins and minerals while the newer no-sugar version only provided 35%, according to the labels. So knowing which formulation one is getting is critical in determining the product’s value; and yet Yevo pretty much kept consumers in the dark.
The company was launched in February 2015 and the original not-a-smoothie version was launched in July of that year; and judging from the claims that you and Unruh made, it was pulled in the fall and replaced with the sugar-free version only a month ago. If that’s true, it’s an epic failure that reflects abysmally on the company. Why pull a flagship product from the market after only a few months unless it is unmarketable for some reason (e.g., unpalatability or some other undesirable product qualities). And what was happening in the interim between the time they allegedly pulled the old version and the time they relaunched the new one? Did they stop selling the not-a-smoothie altogether? That also sounds like it would have been pretty catastrophic for the company.
Susan said: “As far as I know, there will not be a version with sugar.”
As far as you know? The problem with that statement is that you don’t seem to know much, and that lack of knowledge is consistent with my critique that the company has made finding reliable details about the smoothie exceedingly difficult. It’s hard to imagine that incompetence alone could account for that, although it’s possible; but more likely the deception is purposeful. This shouldn’t be a guessing game. There should be official announcements from the company that you can cite to back up all of your assertions.
It can’t be emphasized enough that the reason for reformulating the product, according to Marsland, was that the older version smelled/tasted bad and was susceptible to protein oxidation (rancidity), which caused it to stink of fish. Evidence again of epic failure.
https://www.yevo43.com/episode-1-it-only-gets-better/
Susan said: “It cracks me up you all are so hung up on this potassium subject. Maybe Edward Snowden can help clarify this topic.”
I hope for your sake that you’re only pretending to not get the point, as it would reflect very poorly on your cognitive abilities if you truly failed to grasp the issues. I was clearing up a comment that I had made earlier about the amount of potassium in the product, and when I delved into that research, I found that the company had released contradictory and misleading information about the potassium content (i.e., 1350 vs 1750 mg) in their marketing materials, like in the Jodi Unruh example I provided above.
Vogel, I’m not sure how I can be any more clear on this topic: The product was pulled and then re-released in December. Why are you pulling up outdated information from July and trying to compare it to the product that’s been re-released?
Vogel said “As far as you know? The problem with that statement is that you don’t seem to know much, and that lack of knowledge is consistent with my critique that the company has made finding reliable details about the smoothie exceedingly difficult.”
How am I supposed to know what a privately held business chooses to do? What they do is entirely up to them. They might ask my opinion, but I have no input what so ever on what products they decide to release. I simply sell them.
I’m telling you the information I have here and now.
Vogel said “It can’t be emphasized enough that the reason for reformulating the product, according to Marsland, was that the older version smelled/tasted bad and was susceptible to protein oxidation (rancidity), which caused it to stink of fish. Evidence again of epic failure.”
How is this an epic fail? They discovered a problem and corrected inside of 4 months or so. I was not aware that the issue with the first version of the smoothie was related to the protein. Either way, does it really matter?
Vogel said “I hope for your sake that you’re only pretending to not get the point, as it would reflect very poorly on your cognitive abilities if you truly failed to grasp the issues. I was clearing up a comment that I had made earlier about the amount of potassium in the product, and when I delved into that research, I found that the company had released contradictory and misleading information about the potassium content (i.e., 1350 vs 1750 mg) in their marketing materials, like in the Jodi Unruh example I provided above.”
I’m really trying to understand why you are so concerned about potassium. Are you saying that the label is stating one amount of postpartum and you feel it is another?
It seemed you were putting forth some conspiracy theory, so I suggested that maybe Edward Snowden knows the answer to this.
Susan said, “How am I supposed to know what a privately held business chooses to do? What they do is entirely up to them. They might ask my opinion, but I have no input what so ever on what products they decide to release. I simply sell them.”
And yet MLMs try to sell their salespeople on owning their own business. Yes this is Why MLM is NOT a Business. It’s fine if it is a sales job (without the pyramid scheme recruitment payment structure), so MLMs should describe it as such. A good pitch would be, “We’re offering you a sales job.”
How is it NOT an epic fail? Their entire marketing pitch is on the quality of food and it seems like it was flat out terrible. Why are they even releasing such terrible food to the public in the first place?
Susan, it seems that the issue with marketing is that people are pitching the higher potassium content of the previous version when the current version doesn’t have that. Why can’t they adopt a Soylent naming convention so that we know that the terrible stuff is EN43 version 1.0 and the differently formulated stuff is EN43 version 1.5 (or 2.0). Having two very different products with the same name is very confusing for consumers.
Susan said: “Vogel, I’m not sure how I can be any more clear on this topic: The product was pulled and then re-released in December. Why are you pulling up outdated information from July and trying to compare it to the product that’s been re-released?”
Susan said: “How am I supposed to know what a privately held business chooses to do? What they do is entirely up to them. They might ask my opinion, but I have no input what so ever on what products they decide to release. I simply sell them.”
You have just expressed two very divergent ideas: (1) you assert that you are providing us with a completely clear picture of the product’s evolution, despite the fact that your details seem fuzzy at best and unreliable, and they are not supported by any official statement from the company (that you or I can find at least); and (2) you portray yourself essentially as an ignorant minion left in the dark by a private company to which you have no substantial connection.
I did not pull up any “outdated” information. I simply put together a string of statements from Jodi Unruh to help establish the product’s version history. None of the statements from the company or its distributors support your assertion that the product was “pulled’, but it could be true nonetheless. We know a new version was developed, but it appears that they never admitted to pulling the old one. As for the chronology, Unruh announced on July 7 that the release date for the not-a-smoothie was to be July 15, 2015, and based on her description of the product’s nutrient profile, she was referring to the sugar-added version, which presumably launched as planned. Then on November 7, Unruh released another statement that the launch (not “re-launch”) was to come on November 20, 2015. The specs for that product suggest that it was the no-sugar version, but she never stated that explicitly, and she never mentioned anything about a previous version being pulled.
The not-a-smoothie was being hailed as the company’s flagship product, so it’s quite fair to say it was an epic failure given that they had to market a dramatically different reformulated version within 4 months after the initial launch, and that the reason for the reformulation was due in large part to bad taste/smell and oxidized proteins, according to Marsland’s admission.
Susan said: “How is this an epic fail? They discovered a problem and corrected inside of 4 months or so. I was not aware that the issue with the first version of the smoothie was related to the protein. Either way, does it really matter?”
How can it be deemed anything other than an epic fail when the company only had at most 4 different products (coffee, tea, oatmeal, and not-a-smoothie powder) and one of them turned out to have a poor nutritional profile (high sugar and calories for example) and tasted/smelled so bad (due to oxidation and choline) that it had to be completely reinvented within 4 months. If a bridge contractor builds a bridge and it falls down in 4 months, it would be deemed an epic failure, even if it were to be rebuilt 4 months later. If a car was released and the wheels fell off in the first 4 months, would the launch not be called an epic failure even of they eventually rectified the problem?
It would be bad enough for you to have been unaware of the oxidation problem had I not included the comment in my analysis of Marsland’s audio recording, but since I did, your plea of ignorance is particularly inexcusable.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312324
As for your question as to whether all of this really matters, it apparently doesn’t matter to you — because for some reason you lack both simple curiosity and a sense of responsibility driving you to know what you’re selling — but it matters greatly to those who are trying to analyze and understand the company and its products. The haste with which they threw together and then hyped the sugar-added not-a-smoothie, followed by their need to hastily reformulate the product to make it edible reinforces a picture of this company as one that’s incompetent and couldn’t give a flying F about what they’re selling (and ultimately, using as bait to lure people into a pyramid scheme). This is reinforced by the piles of fraudulent and contradictory advertising, lack of transparency about the products, abundant illegal health claims, and the connection of the company’s executives with Metabolife – a supplement MLM company that killed/injured consumers, lied to federal authorities, and had their executives sent to prison. It’s also very reminiscent of other MLMs like Monavie, whose CEO Dallin Larsen, a career MLM scammer, didn’t even know what was in the company’s juice but nonetheless promoted it as a miracle cure.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/monavie-scam/comment-page-9/#comment-103471
Susan said: “I’m really trying to understand why you are so concerned about potassium. Are you saying that the label is stating one amount of postpartum (sic) and you feel it is another?”
I don’t know how it can be explained any more clearly, after having already explained it clearly several times now, but I’ll give it you in a nutshell one last time.
Potassium initially came up as an issue because Marsland made false/misleading statements suggesting that the ACE-K in EN-43 served as a significant source of potassium, when in fact the ACE-K appears to provide only about 10 mg of potassium — less than half a percent of the RDA.
Secondly, the total potassium content in the not-a-smoothie powder became an issue because analysis of the nutrient labels (that the company makes needlessly difficult to find) showed the amounts of potassium in the sugar-added (1750 mg) and no-sugar added (1350 mg) versions differ (as did the levels of many other nutrients), and the company was not making it clear which version was being offered. That lack of clarity comes off as amateurish, shoddy, and scammy.
To make matters worse, some of the marketing materials are inaccurate because they depict a fictitious product with a nutrient profile that borrows the better features of each version: the sugar-added version’s higher potassium (1750 mg vs 1350 mg) and lower sodium (55 mg vs 130), together with the no-added sugar version’s higher protein (30 mg vs 25 mg) and lower sugar (3 g vs 14 g).
BTW, I assume “post partum” was just an innocent auto-correct error; no comment necessary.
Susan said: “It seemed you were putting forth some conspiracy theory, so I suggested that maybe Edward Snowden knows the answer to this.”
Yes you did do that. And now after being spoon-fed to get you up to speed, it will hopefully dawn on you how unwarranted it was to mention conspiracy theories and Snowden.
Vogel Said “You have just expressed two very divergent ideas: (1) you assert that you are providing us with a completely clear picture of the product’s evolution, despite the fact that your details seem fuzzy at best and unreliable, and they are not supported by any official statement from the company (that you or I can find at least); and (2) you portray yourself essentially as an ignorant minion left in the dark by a private company to which you have no substantial connection.”
It’s not uncommon for a company to not divulge internal decisions with an external sales force. They certainly ask our opinions, but I have no influence what so ever in their decision process. Look at Apple Computer. They don’t tell anyone squat until the item in question is released.
I had no idea there was a problem with the previous version of the Smoothie. It tasted fine to me and I nobody else said anything negative to me about it. The newer formula tastes much better, so it was definitely an improvement.
Vogel Said “How can it be deemed anything other than an epic fail when the company only had at most 4 different products (coffee, tea, oatmeal, and not-a-smoothie powder)”
They have more than 4 products. There is also an alfredo sauce, a curry sauce, and mashed potatoes. There was also a tomato basil soup base that I’d tried once too, but I think they’ve held off on mass release.. I also know that there is a diet study underway right now and several new products are being used in this study such as a Curry Rice, Beans and Rice, mac and cheese, Pad Thai, some additional soups, and cookie snacks.
Vogel Said “It would be bad enough for you to have been unaware of the oxidation problem had I not included the comment in my analysis of Marsland’s audio recording, but since I did, your plea of ignorance is particularly inexcusable.”
I did a bit of research after you brought up the issue of the fishy smell and found that it is widely reported that some people report that they detect a fishy odor in canola oil especially when heated. Since Yevo uses canola for omega 3, it’s no surprise some people report the same fishy smell that is reported by many with canola. Personally, I don’t smell any fishy odor on the smoothie once it is mixed with water and ready to drink.
Apple Computer doesn’t let retailers train retailers like a Telephone Game where the truth is distorted. This is a common tactic in MLM. Apple Computer retailers are highly qualified and trained to know the important issues. It’s been my experience that the people in MLM receive ZERO training in the FTC guidelines of what a pyramid scheme is. In fact, I’ve seen just the opposite where the rewards are geared for people who create what the FTC guidelines define as an illegal pyramid scheme.
Please don’t compare any MLM company to Apple Computer.
Susan said “I had no idea there was a problem with the previous version of the Smoothie. It tasted fine to me and I nobody else said anything negative to me about it.”
So you are confirming that Yevo has communication issues? Good, we can at least agree that is established.
I hope the diet study you are referring to isn’t the one that is connected with a Yevo company insider. Such biased studies always show the products in the best possible light… often employing tricks to make them test better than they really should.
Susan said: “It’s not uncommon for a company to not divulge internal decisions with an external sales force.”
I am not arguing otherwise. I am simply saying that you cannot argue that you are outside the loop and at the same time argue that you are capable of serving as a reliable conduit for insider information. Your lack of definitive knowledge about the product’s evolution is plainly evident.
Susan said: “I had no idea there was a problem with the previous version of the Smoothie.”
That’s a great example illustrating that you are not only outside the loop, but also so apathetic that you made no effort to uncover pertinent information (or are simply lying when you profess ignorance). Marlsland’s audio recording was prominently linked on Yevo’s website. It was incredibly easy for me to find and assimilate the information, as it would have been for you had you made the slightest effort. When you keep pleading ignorance like this, people will ultimately accept it at face value and conclude that you are just that — ignorant.
Susan said: “They have more than 4 products. There is also an alfredo sauce, a curry sauce, and mashed potatoes.”
You are both missing the point and resorting to a fallacious argument. The point was that at the time it was released, the not-a-smoothie powder represented a significant proportion of the company’s product offerings, which as I pointed out included coffee/tea, oatmeal/rice gruel, and the not-a-smoothie powder, and that the failure with the latter product was therefore profound – it wasn’t simply one product out of a hundred that went bust – it was roughly one-fourth — but the point would still stand even if it was one-seventh.
Where you really screwed up though is in your knowledge of the chronology of their product releases. The not-a-smoothie powder launched on July 15, 2015. The mashed potato powder did not launch until mid-August and the curry powder not until mid-October (not sure about the Alfredo powder). Either way, the failure of the not-a-smoothie powder certainly qualifies as “epic”, given that it was a flagship product and represented a significant proportion of the company’s product offerings.
http://realfoodchoices.com/tag/yevo-mashed-potatoes/
http://realfoodchoices.com/2015/10/30/yevo-curry-sauce/
Susan said: “I also know that there is a diet study underway right now and several new products are being used in this study such as a Curry Rice, Beans and Rice, mac and cheese, Pad Thai, some additional soups, and cookie snacks.”
That’s completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, but it’s another interesting example of how you claim on one hand to be outside the loop and on the other hand claim to have intimate knowledge of product development details that are not in the public domain. Regarding the details you claimed about the study, all I have to say is — prove it! Evidence talks; BS walks.
Susan said: “I did a bit of research after you brought up the issue of the fishy smell and found that it is widely reported that some people report that they detect a fishy odor in canola oil especially when heated. Since Yevo uses canola for omega 3, it’s no surprise some people report the same fishy smell that is reported by many with canola. Personally, I don’t smell any fishy odor on the smoothie once it is mixed with water and ready to drink.”
A pathetic red-herring! You provided no evidence to support such an assertion about canola, but more importantly, Marsland did not attribute the foul odor/taste to canola oil. His audio recording specifically noted that it was due to oxidation of fats and proteins and the inclusion of choline. Furthermore, this detail has been brought to your attention several times already, so your attempt at diverting away from the central facts is nothing short of purposeful deception.
Interestingly, when I reviewed the Marsland audio recording just now, I found yet another falsehood.
06:50 – “We’ve also strengthened the vitamins and mineral profile to improve bioavailability.”
https://www.yevo43.com/episode-1-it-only-gets-better/
In fact, the labels for two versions of the not-a-smoothie show that when they reformulated it, the vitamin and mineral content was reduced from 50% of RDA for most of the nutrients to a mere 35% of RDA. So what they in fact did was the opposite of strengthening the vitamin and mineral profile – they weakened it by 30%.
http://www.wholesomenutrition4u.com/15-YEV-0044_Chocolate_Smoothie_M3_nutrientpanel.pdf#sthash.GW7ZQOHT.dpuf
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png#sthash.GW7ZQOHT.dpuf
Lazyman,
There are chains of cellular and tablet “Authorized Retailers” here on the west coast. I know one who works at one of these establishments and they do not see the new apple products unit just a few days before they are released to the public.
You are talking about an Apple Store, staffed with Apple Employees. There is no doubt that Apple Employees have a different level of knowledge of product development than an outside sales force.
I’m not entirely sure of the details of the study. I just had heard from someone on it. It has to do with yevo products and an app for logging what you eat, activity, etc.
Susan, I was talking about authorized Apple resellers… not Apple stores staffed with Apple Employees. There are a mom and pop shops that sell Apple products just like the “authorized retailers” of cell phones you are referring to. They have one level of separation of training from the company. It isn’t, “A double diamond told a platinum who told a gold who told a silver…” down to the talc-rated. We’ve seen how such rumors get exaggerated and falsified in that environment.
In any case, there’s no need to go further with your bad example.
Susan said: “I’m not entirely sure of the details of the study. I just had heard from someone on it. It has to do with yevo products and an app for logging what you eat, activity, etc.”
That’s a big problem. You shouldn’t be spreading vague innuendo. Who was it that you allegedly heard this from? You could have at least put a name on the table to identify the source.
[Editor’s Note: Susan didn’t read what Vogel quoted about her spreading innuendo with regard to some study she’s vaguely referring to. Instead of address the study, she changed the subject to the “more than 4 Yevo products” which is an entirely different matter.]
I’m not spreading innuendo. It’s common knowledge that there are more than 4 Yevo products. I was simply listing some examples:
Here is the details on the study I was referring to :
https://www.yevo43.com/43-for-weight-management/43-for-weight-management-questions/
Vogel Said “A pathetic red-herring! You provided no evidence to support such an assertion about canola, but more importantly, Marsland did not attribute the foul odor/taste to canola oil”
Why do you say that? It’s all over the internet. I just plugged in “Canola Oil, fishy smell” in google and grabbed the first few links:
http://www.chowhound.com/post/people-detect-canola-oil-fishyness-532212
http://www.seriouseats.com/talk/2011/01/heated-canola-oil-tastes-fishy.html
http://www.cooksinfo.com/canola-oil
Vogel Said “In fact, the labels for two versions of the not-a-smoothie show that when they reformulated it, the vitamin and mineral content was reduced from 50% of RDA for most of the nutrients to a mere 35% of RDA.”
They did this to keep the price point down.
Even with 35% RDA, this product is heads above most other similar products in terms of the nutrients offered.
I wish you would stop calling me ignorant Vogel. I’m being as honest and forthcoming as I can. I am NOT in the decision process for Yevo products, but as a salesperson I do know details about the products that are out there. You are implying that because I don’t know WHY something is the way it is, that I’m ignorant. I do my best to educate myself on these products as best I can from the information that is mostly available to anyone in the public.
Susan, it isn’t about nutrients. Fortification only costs a few cents which is why Total cereal isn’t 10x more expensive than other cereal. A 6-cent multivitamin bridges the gap in terms of nutrients offered. If Yevo wants to charge an extra 6 cents for their oatmeal, I’m cool with that.
Susan said: “Why do you say that? It’s all over the internet. I just plugged in “Canola Oil, fishy smell” in google and grabbed the first few links”
Why are you still beating this dead horse after being informed that Marsland attributed the fishy aroma and taste of the product to fat/protein oxidation and choline, not canola. There’s no point participating in this discussion if you’re not going to listen.
Susan said: “They did this to keep the price point down.”
I must point out once again that you duplicitously portray yourself as a mere out of-the-loop minion with no insider knowledge when it’s convenient, but when it suits you, you switch faces and attempt to make authoritative statements without any supportive evidence.
Your statement about the “price point” translates to “they did it to cut production costs”. The company never appears to have made a statement suggesting that cost was factor in their decision to cut back on the vitamin/mineral content by 30% in the reformulated product. In fact, as I pointed out earlier today, they lied (in the other direction) by stating that they had “strengthened the vitamins and mineral profile.”
The company’s obfuscation on the issue notwithstanding, it’s possible that the reduction in vitamin/mineral content was done to cut costs, but that seems unlikely since it probably wouldn’t even save a penny’s worth of raw material. Furthermore, Marsland discussed the reasons for the re-formulation in detail and never mentioned anything about cost cutting as a reason. Rather, he made it clear that it was to address palatability issues. It would make more sense that they cut back on vitamin/mineral amounts to improve palatability, since a 30% reduction might help to improve taste and mouth feel, and cutting back on iron and vitamin C could reduce fat/protein oxidation, since they are catalysts for such reactions.
Susan said: “Even with 35% RDA, this product is heads above most other similar products in terms of the nutrients offered.”
It’s not even close. I already showed in detail that a 7-cent multivitamin or Isopure (also far less costly than Yevo) provide a far wider range of nutrients and/or greater amounts than Yevo. This is another example of you sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending to not hear.
Susan said: “I wish you would stop calling me ignorant Vogel.”
And I wish you would stop making so many ignorant comments. Characterizing you as merely ignorant was being gracious and giving you the benefit of the doubt. If the vapid and fallacious comments you’ve made are not a product of ignorance, then the only other fitting descriptions would be names like “liar” or “a-hole”.
Susan said: “You are implying that because I don’t know WHY something is the way it is, that I’m ignorant.”
No, what I’m saying, not implying, is that it is ignorant to not know basic facts about the product you’re hyping relentlessly, or to make a pseudo-factual statement without having any evidence or even a faint clue as to whether it’s true. And when you still pretend to not know something after it has been explained to you clearly over and over, that transcends ignorance into the realm of assholery.
Vogel said “Why are you still beating this dead horse after being informed that Marsland attributed the fishy aroma and taste of the product to fat/protein oxidation and choline, not canola. There’s no point participating in this discussion if you’re not going to listen”
You had originally brought up the Canola oil topic, saying it was going rancid. I missed the parts where you discussed the protein oxidizing.
I have no experience with the topic, so I really can’t say either way.
It does make sense that they would reduce the nutrients to enhance taste. I was just telling you what I was told as the reason for doing it. The company may have not made the statement on the website or in a video, but they did to us.
Susan said: “You had originally brought up the Canola oil topic, saying it was going rancid.”
I never once even mentioned the word canola. Rather, I highlighted Marsland’s admission about oxidation of fat/protein in the products. In the future, anytime you attribute a statement to me without providing a direct quote, it should immediately be assumed to be inaccurate.
Susan said: “I missed the parts where you discussed the protein oxidizing.”
And that indefensible plea of ignorance once again forces us to make a choice as to whether you are a flaming idiot, for not noticing the numerous posts where I unmistakably referred to oxidation of protein and fat in the products (examples below), or a disruptive a-hole, for pretending that you didn’t see them.
“Chip describes how the products were reformulated because the old versions stunk as a result of oxidation of proteins and fats.”
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312324
“And by Chip Marsland’s own admission (see my previous comment for the quotes), Yevo has a big problems masking the rancidity of the oxidized fats and proteins (and the resulting fishy smell that has been widely reported) in their products.”
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312430
“Marsland did not attribute the foul odor/taste to canola oil. His audio recording specifically noted that it was due to oxidation of fats and proteins and the inclusion of choline.”
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-3/#comment-1312916
“According to Marsland, was that the older version smelled/tasted bad and was susceptible to protein oxidation (rancidity), which caused it to stink of fish…“The reason for the reformulation was due in large part to bad taste/smell and oxidized proteins, according to Marsland’s admission.”
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-3/#comment-1312873
Susan said: “I have no experience with the topic, so I really can’t say either way.”
Then stop talking, read more attentively, and learn. Now that the information has been spoon-fed to you 5 times, you can say with authority that the products were reformulated because they stank and tasted of fish, which resulted from protein/fat oxidation and choline; and the notion that it was done to cut costs is both implausible and not consistent with any statement the company made publicly (and even if it were true, it would reflect poorly on the company because their reformulation would represent a cheaper/lower-quality product).
Susan said: “It does make sense that they would reduce the nutrients to enhance taste. I was just telling you what I was told as the reason for doing it. The company may have not made the statement on the website or in a video, but they did to us.”
But you have proven yourself many times over to be completely unreliable, so in the future, if you are going to make an unverifiable claim that the company or some person told you something, at least provide a source/name or clearly identify it as whispered hearsay. Don’t pretend to be an authority when you can’t back up what you’re claiming.
And if, as you claim, the company told you unofficially that the reformulation was done to cut costs, but you now know that they officially stated that it was done to address the bad smell/taste of the products, then the conundrum you face is that they lied to you. That alone is reason enough to quit Yevo. What would it say about your character if you were to continue to work for barefaced liars?
Furthermore, since you accept the notion that pumping all of those fortifiers into foods makes them taste bad, then you should have no problem accepting my initial premise that Yevo’s core concept is ridiculous – i.e., the reason other companies don’t try to pump 30 g of protein, gram after gram of vitamins and minerals, and omega 3/6 FAs into food products like oatmeal and mashed potatoes is because it would turn the food into a wretched abomination that tastes and smells like Satan’s armpit.
Time to talk about iron. When I was comparing nutrient data a while ago for the Yevo EN-43 not-a-smoothie versus an 8-cent Centrum Silver multivitamin, I noticed that Centrum Silver didn’t contain iron whereas Yevo did.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312378
In fact, the label for the original sugar-added version shows that it contains 50% of the RDA for iron per serving…
http://www.wholesomenutrition4u.com/15-YEV-0044_Chocolate_Smoothie_M3_nutrientpanel.pdf
…and Yevo states that their percentage RDA calculations are based on this data on their webpage, which lists the RDA for iron as 18 mg…
https://www.yevo43.com/essential-nutrients-determining-the-perfect-amount/
…which means that the original sugar-added version contains 9 mg of iron (50% x 18 mg). But interestingly, the reformulated (no-added sugar) version shows that the iron content was increased from 50% RDA to 60%, which in milligrams would correspond to an increase from 9 mg to 10.8 mg per serving – a 20% increase in iron content.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/smoothie-bp.png
Now let’s consider the implications of the fact that EN-43 contains iron (60% of RDA in the reformulated version) while Centrum Silver does not. Expert medical opinion (and that of Dr. Oz too) follows:
WebMD: “How Much Iron Do You Need? — Starting at adolescence, a woman’s daily iron needs increase. Women need more iron because they lose blood each month during their period. That’s why women from ages 19 to 50 need to get 18 mg of iron each day, while men the same age can get away with just 8 mg. After menopause, a woman’s iron needs drop as her menstrual cycle ends. After a woman begins menopause, both men and women need the same amount of iron — 8 mg each day.
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/lifestyle-guide-11/iron-supplements?page=2
Berkley Wellness Letter: “Easy does it on iron. The following people, in general, don’t need supplemental iron—and may be better off without it:
• Postmenopausal women. Data from the large Framingham study suggest that the low risk of heart disease among premenopausal women may not be due to hormones alone. It may also be attributable to menstruation and thus the monthly loss of iron. After menopause, when menstruation stops, women begin to catch up to men in heart disease risk. This suggests that higher iron stores may be a factor in the increasing rates of heart disease seen in postmenopausal women.
• Men. Unless they have a condition that causes chronic blood loss, men don’t need supplemental iron…
• If you are a postmenopausal woman or a man and take a multivitamin/mineral pill, check the label for iron. Unless your doctor has told you that you are iron-deficient, look for one that has no iron. The iron is unnecessary. Many multis marketed for men and older people do not contain iron.”
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/supplements/minerals/article/good-and-bad-iron
Luke Fortney, M.D.: “And men’s multivitamins should also not have any iron just because that’s something that because men don’t menstruate, they don’t need it.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MensHealthAlternativeMedicine/man-daily-multivitamin-choose-mens-formulation/story?id=8828460
Even Dr. Oz (who I usually loathe and laugh at) offers the same standard opinion on iron supplementation:
Oz: “Iron is a second reason why your multi-vitamin may not be safe for you. ‘Taking iron when you don’t need it is actually bad for you,’ says Dr. Oz. ‘You should not have iron if you are post-menopausal or if you are a guy.’ He explains that too much iron can cause damage to your arteries and that if you are not excluded from taking iron, that the dose in your vitamin pill should be only 18 milligrams—that’s for women of childbearing age and nobody else recommends Dr. Oz. Hardening of the arteries caused by excess iron is the reason why you do not want iron in your multi-vitamin pill if you do not meet health criteria for needing supplemental iron.”
http://www.emaxhealth.com/8782/dr-oz-shares-multi-vitamin-safety-recommendations
So there you have it, consensus opinion seems to be that: (a) general purpose multivitamins should not contain iron; and (b) that men and post-menopausal women should not take ANY supplemental iron (and certainly not more than 8 mg/day), as it can increase the risk of life-threatening diseases. That’s why Centrum Silver doesn’t contain iron – unlike Yevo, they seem at least marginally genuinely concerned about not causing harm to their customers.
The original version of the Yevo not-a-smoothie powder already had a level of iron (9 mg per serving) that exceeded the recommended amount for more than half the population – a level that can be presumed to predispose users to greater disease risk – and then to add insult to injury, the company increased the iron levels in the reformulated no-added sugar version by 20% (to 10.8 mg per serving). Worse still, Yevo marketing materials suggest that people should consume 2 servings of their products daily, which would provide 18-22 mg iron.
http://otis.mission43.com/yevo/if-i-eat-two-servings-of-yevo-food-each-day-can-i-stop-eating-fresh-fruits-and-vegetables/
http://www.theincrediblebusiness.com/#!yevo-foods/c240e
https://www.yevo43.com/more_about_yevo/
Another factor to consider is that most people get adequate amounts of iron in the diet unless they have certain concomitant diseases, in which case they are supposed to be medically diagnosed as deficient and undergo iron supplementation only under medical supervision using pharmaceutical-grade supplements (which would preclude a role for Yevo). So to arguably offer some meager potential benefit to a tiny fraction of potential consumers of Yevo products (pre-menopausal women who don’t get enough iron in the diet and do not have a medical condition that causes iron deficiency), the company is content (perhaps even eager, judging by the higher dose in the reformulated version) to essentially slowly poison everyone else.
Come on Vogel. Dr. Oz and WebMD as authoritative… Seriously?!?!?!
Vogel also said “So to arguably offer some meager potential benefit to a tiny fraction of potential consumers of Yevo products (pre-menopausal women who don’t get enough iron in the diet and do not have a medical condition that causes iron deficiency), the company is content (perhaps even eager, judging by the higher dose in the reformulated version) to essentially slowly poison everyone else.”
You are the one now making ignorant statements. You pulled a few of the links from a google search on the topic that fit your argument and posted them. Pretty easy to verify where you got these with a few google search queries.
Here is a more reputable source on the topic:
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/#h8
Your poisoning statement is the most ludicrous of all. Per this US Department of Health and Humans Services fact sheet:
“… acute intakes of more than 20 mg/kg iron from supplements or medicines can lead to gastric upset, constipation, nausea, abdominal pain, vomiting, and faintness, especially if food is not taken at the same time”
You’d need to drink 5-6 bags of the smoothy mix to get anywhere near this level. Take note of Table 3 which indicates a tolerable upper limit of 40-45mg of iron.
You also went and handpicked a Centrum product with no iron. Here’s just regular Centrum Adult blend and it contains the exact amount of Iron you are claiming is in Yevo (18mg): http://www.centrum.com/centrum-adults
I would also add that Centrum Silver is designed for individuals 50 years and older, which is approximately 32% of the US population per the 2012 census (using a linear ratio of census data presented). https://www.census.gov/population/age/data/2012.html
So, you are making comparisons throughout this thread using a product that’s not designed for roughly 68% of the US Population.
Susan,
Do you read Vogel’s comments? He said, “Even Dr. Oz (who I usually loathe and laugh at).” He’s clearly not holding him as an authority, but stating that even the worst, fake authority knows this, so it is unquestionable. (At least that’s my interpretation.)
And certainly WebMD is more authoritative than anyone associated with Yevo.
Susan said: “You are the one now making ignorant statements. You pulled a few of the links from a google search on the topic that fit your argument and posted them. Pretty easy to verify where you got these with a few google search queries.”
Wow. That’s both dumb and callously negligent. You don’t seem to be disputing that men and post-menopausal women should not take supplemental iron because it increases the risk of cardiovascular disease — and that Yevo fails to make this distinction among the their target demographic for the product (i.e., anyone with a credit card who’s gullible enough to buy it). The not-a-smoothie, now with 20% more iron than the original sugar-added version, contains in excess of 10 mg iron per serving. It’s a product that, therefore, should be avoided by a significant proportion of the population.
Susan said: “Here is a more reputable source on the topic”
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/#h8
A source which you apparently didn’t even bother reading in your haste to make your clueless rebuttal. The data listed under Table 1 (Recommended Dietary Allowances for Iron) lists a recommended daily intake not exceeding 8 mg for men and women of most age groups – and that’s the recommended total daily iron intake, not the recommended dose for a supplement. The 10.2 mg of iron in Yevo’s reformulated not-a-smoothie exceeds the 8-mg daily intake recommendation, even without factoring in daily iron intake from other food sources. In fact, the very highest intake recommended for those who are not pregnant or lactating was 18 mg (for women 19-50 years old), which would be exceeded by consuming the not-a-smoothie and one other serving of a Yevo product daily; and their marketing materials often recommend consuming two servings of the products daily.
Once again, an epic fail on your part Susan. Even when you try to cherry-pick your sources, you F up miserably. And you never did mention why it was you chose to completely ignore the advice of the Berkeley Wellness Letter (echoing that of the source you provided), which is a highly respected source for consumer health information. Even guys who I have no respect for, like Dr. Oz and Andrew Weil, have enough good sense to offer sane advice about avoiding iron in supplements. It would be extremely fair to say that this cautionary advice is well supported by consensus opinion.
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/supplements/minerals/article/good-and-bad-iron
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA74999
Susan: “Your poisoning statement is the most ludicrous of all. Per this US Department of Health and Humans Services fact sheet: “… acute intakes…”
Good lord, you are either staggeringly dumb or profoundly dishonest. The risks of ingesting excess iron to which I was clearly referring (i.e. “slowly poisoning”) are associated with chronic intake, not acute. Not at all surprisingly, this is another failed straw-man argument on your part. The suggestion is not that someone is going to keel over on the spot after drinking one of Yevo’s not-a-smoothies; it is that continued use of a product with such high iron levels would logically be associated with a heightened risk for life-threatening diseases upon repeated consumption.
Susan said: “You also went and handpicked a Centrum product with no iron.”
BS! I selected Centrum Silver for comparative purposes weeks before the subject of iron was ever raised. I picked it because it offered a good nutritional profile at an excellent price (less than 8 cents per pill). But at least users of supplements have a choice as to whether they want to buy a product with iron or one without it. Yevo jams the same nasty concoction of crap down everyone’s throats regardless if it’s bad for them. Last time I checked, they weren’t offering a no-iron version of their not-a-smoothie.
Susan said: “I would also add that Centrum Silver is designed for individuals 50 years and older, which is approximately 32% of the US population per the 2012 census (using a linear ratio of census data presented). https://www.census.gov/population/age/data/2012.html So, you are making comparisons throughout this thread using a product that’s not designed for roughly 68% of the US Population.”
Yet another failed strawman argument on your part. Centrum Silver is only one of their offerings. Their multivitamin for men has only 8 mg iron, the recommended upper limit (vs 10.2 mg in a single serving of Yevo’s not-a-smoothie).
http://www.centrum.com/centrum-men
So their products are in fact designed with no iron (or levels not exceeding 8 mg) for well over 50% of the population (men and anyone over age 50). It’s worth repeating that while Centrum offers products with iron levels specifically tailored for different age groups/genders, Yevo doesn’t – it’s a one-size-fits-all iron-bomb – and neither you nor the company seem to give a $hit about causing harm to consumers.
Why does that sound so familiar? Oh yeah, Metabolife – the company that two of Yevo’s executives worked for back in the day when they were in the crosshairs of the feds for selling scam supplements that killed and injured people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolife
Lazyman Said “Do you read Vogel’s comments? He said, “Even Dr. Oz (who I usually loathe and laugh at).” He’s clearly not holding him as an authority, but stating that even the worst, fake authority knows this, so it is unquestionable. (At least that’s my interpretation.)
And certainly WebMD is more authoritative than anyone associated with Yevo.”
Dr Oz is nothing more than an infomercial.
I made no reference to sources at Yevo. I posted a source for the US Department of Health & Human Services.
Susan, you might want to read my article Let’s Discuss the Dr. Oz Scam.
I was making a new reference to how you defer to believe the sources at Yevo. You can’t question WebMD’s authority when you believe Yevo is authoritative.
Vogel Said “Wow. That’s both dumb and callously negligent. You don’t seem to be disputing that men and post-menopausal women should not take supplemental iron because it increases the risk of cardiovascular disease”
And where is the proof of this? You posted one source that made a suggestion, but there’s nothing to back that up either. There quite simply is no reliable evidence that iron intake increases cardiovascular disease risk.
Vogel Said : “A source which you apparently didn’t even bother reading in your haste to make your clueless rebuttal. The data listed under Table 1 (Recommended Dietary Allowances for Iron) lists a recommended daily intake not exceeding 8 mg for men and women of most age groups – and that’s the recommended total daily iron intake, not the recommended dose for a supplement.”
No, I read the entire fact sheet in detail. If you look at the fact sheet in its entirety, it says that the recommended daily intake of iron for men is at least 8mg and not more than 45mg. Beyond 45mg, iron becomes toxic.
You have a habit for pulling information out of context and then build entire arguments and then conclusions on the one out of context statement.
Quite simply, this very reliable source states that iron requirements vary by age demographic and by current health conditions. Iron intake not exceeding 20mg per kg of body weight is safe. Arguing otherwise, in light of this very reliable source with clinical citations, is being obtuse and confrontational.
Vogel Said “Good lord, you are either staggeringly dumb or profoundly dishonest. The risks of ingesting excess iron to which I was clearly referring (i.e. “slowly poisoning”) are associated with chronic intake, not acute.”
Where is the proof that chronic intake of iron is considered “slowly poisoning?” You are making it sound like the person is taking low doses are arsenic. The statement that taking iron supplements is tantamount to poisoning is ludicrous and was done by you for nothing more than theatrics.
Vogel Said “BS! I selected Centrum Silver for comparative purposes weeks before the subject of iron was ever raised”
This is a supplement for people 50 years and older. How is this a good comparison for a produce (Yevo) formulated for the masses? I very clearly showed that nearly 70% of the US Population is under the age of 50. The Centrum product formulated for the masses (i.e., the one I linked) has 18mg of iron per dose.
Your apples to oranges comparison holds no water.
I wanted to discuss a different angle to looking at the cost of Yevo products. I think we’ve already beat the dead horse enough on looking at Yevo as a health supplement and the costs therein. What I wanted to look at the cost of Yevo as a food.
Yevo’s suggestion or advice is that you replace two meals per day with Yevo meals and get all of your RDA of nutrients. The US Department of Agriculture publishes a yearly report on US Average food costs titled “Cost of Food at Home at Four Levels.” In fact, a new report was published in December 2015. http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/USDAFoodPlansCostofFood/reports This report lists average food costs by age group and also how well you like to eat. The groups they designate are: Thifty, Low-cost, Moderate, and Liberal. Based upon these levels and age groups, the cost of a meal per person per day ranges from $2.06 to $4.10 with an average of $3.03.
I don’t think we’ve ever agreed on how much the nutrients in Yevo is worth. I went back through the various threads and there just doesn’t seem to be any consensus nor consistency. For the sake of this discussion, let’s assume it is $1.00. I believe it is more than this, but let’s start there.
If we add this to the USDA average meal costs, you get $3.06 – $5.10 per meal with an average of $4.03. I believe this is a perfectly valid assumption given that most mainstream US Foods don’t give the average person the RDA of nutrients they need. Sure you can eat Organic and get better nutrients, but then none of these averages are valid.
Is it reasonable and possible to use the USDA food budget averages to pay for Yevo products instead? I believe the answer is a very clear yes.
The question then becomes: Do people want to replace some of their meals with nutrient enriched meals? I believe that for many the answer is Yes, but there’s really no way to argue this point. Time will certainly tell.
I also wanted to add a note that other freeze-dried food products. Here is a breakfast items from a very prominent vendor: http://www.rei.com/product/800872/mountain-house-breakfast-skillet-2-servings
$3.75/serving.
We are right in the ballpark as the Yevo food product costs especially if you add in the cost of the additional nutrients.
Susan said: “And where is the proof of this? You posted one source that made a suggestion, but there’s nothing to back that up either. There quite simply is no reliable evidence that iron intake increases cardiovascular disease risk.”
The source I posted was the Berkeley Wellness Letter – arguably one of the most respected sources of its kind for consumer health information. If you have an issue with their conclusions, perhaps you should take it up with them.
http://news.berkeley.edu/2010/11/16/wellness/
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/about-us
To reiterate what the Berkeley Wellness Letter stated:
“This suggests that higher iron stores may be a factor in the increasing rates of heart disease seen in postmenopausal women…Unless they have a condition that causes chronic blood loss, men don’t need supplemental iron…If you are a postmenopausal woman or a man and take a multivitamin/mineral pill, check the label for iron. Unless your doctor has told you that you are iron-deficient, look for one that has no iron. The iron is unnecessary.”
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/supplements/minerals/article/good-and-bad-iron#sthash.tP3nlxap.dpuf
Susan said: “No, I read the entire fact sheet in detail. If you look at the fact sheet in its entirety, it says that the recommended daily intake of iron for men is at least 8mg and not more than 45mg. Beyond 45mg, iron becomes toxic.”
No it does not say that at all. Is the problem that you can’t understand high school-level English or are you just pretending that you can’t see what’s staring you in the face? In the source you linked to, the data table (Table 1: Recommended Dietary Allowances for Iron) does not say that the recommended iron intake for men is “at least” 8 mg and “not more than 45 mg”. It says unequivocally that the recommended intake is 8 mg. What is said further on in the article about taking doses in excess of 45 mg is that doing so can cause acute gastrointestinal side effects, and it said that 45 mg is the upper “tolerable” limit – not the “recommended daily intake”. It has nothing to do with the recommended daily intake level (8 mg) or the long-term effects of excessive dietary iron being associated with heightened disease risk.
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/#h8
There is no disputing that the 10.2 mg of iron in a single serving of Yevo’s not-a-smoothie exceeds the level of intake recommended for men and post-menopausal women, and that’s not even factoring in other sources of dietary iron that one would consume throughout the day, or the second daily Yevo serving that their marketing materials recommend consuming.
Susan said: “Quite simply, this very reliable source states that iron requirements vary by age demographic and by current health conditions. Iron intake not exceeding 20 mg per kg of body weight is safe. Arguing otherwise, in light of this very reliable source with clinical citations, is being obtuse and confrontational.”
No, you are obtuse for continuing to ignore that according to the source that you cited, as well as the ones I cited, the consensus recommendation for men is a daily dietary iron intake not exceeding 8 mg. One serving of Yevo’s not-a smoothie exceeds that amount. The recommended 8 mg per day is so easy to get from one’s diet that health authorities state that men should not consume supplements that contain iron. How hard is that to understand?
You are also obtuse because the 20 mg/kg dose mentioned in the source you cited refers to acute toxicity, not chronic toxicity, and even after I explained this very basic and obvious distinction to you, you still can’t seem to grasp it.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-3/#comment-1312997
Susan, stop embarrassing yourself by trying to justify a $6 oatmeal that isn’t even organic. We’ve shown much cheaper and better oatmeal. There’s no need to make it any more complicated.
However, your attempt to make it more complicated is completely flawed. The moderate cost plan for a non-child male is around $70/week or $10 a day. If you start with a $6 oatmeal, you are left with $4 for two meals, snacks, drinks, etc. We know that dinner is the most expensive meal. There’s a popular website called Five-Dollar Dinners for frugal people. Yet that isn’t frugal enough, because you would have already blown your budget… and still no lunch, drinks, water. And women spend even less.
And while shakes are cheaper, they aren’t meals. And once again, there are cheaper and better options available.
Fortification, where a majority of Yevo’s nutrients seem to come from, is extremely cheap. We’ve covered very cheap vitamins and very cheap whey protein. You have to compare like things. You can’t say, “Well, our shake has more fiber and vitamins than an expensive steak, so it’s a great value.”
Susan said: “This is a supplement for people 50 years and older. How is this a good comparison for a produce (Yevo) formulated for the masses? I very clearly showed that nearly 70% of the US Population is under the age of 50. The Centrum product formulated for the masses (i.e., the one I linked) has 18mg of iron per dose. Your apples to oranges comparison holds no water.”
Again, you are simply ignoring what’s being spoon-fed to you. I posted a link just today to Centrum’s formulation for men and it contains only 8 mg iron, consistent with consensus recommendations. http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-3/#comment-1312999
If you add up men and post-menopausal women, that comes out to more than 50% of the consumer base for supplements whose iron status would be best served by taking either Centrum Silver or Men’s Centrum. In contrast, the amount of iron in your shitty product makes it suitable for a much smaller population. And just because these two Centrum formulations have 0 mg (Silver) or 8 mg (Men’s) of iron, that doesn’t make them unsuitable for anyone (except maybe pregnant/lactating women), since most people get more than enough iron in the diet; don’t need a supplement; and could be doing more harm than good by taking additional iron. And as I’ve said before, I don’t even advocate supplements at all for the average person. The best nutritional medicine is a healthy balanced whole-food diet, which renders supplements largely unnecessary (aside from being potentially harmful).
A single serving of Yevo’s not-a-smoothie contains 10.2 mg iron (>25% more than the Centrum Men’s formulation and 20% more than Yevo’s original sugar-added version). To make matters worse, Yevo marketing materials recommend eating two servings of their products daily, which in addition to iron from other normal dietary sources, would greatly exceed 20 mg in total — well beyond the level recommended for nearly all demographic groups except lactating/pregnant women. But for the latter group, standard medical advice is to take a reputable pre-natal vitamin, which would preclude a role for Yevo since it doesn’t have anywhere near the same nutrient profile as a prenatal vitamin (aside from being unhealthy powdered food and the antithesis of reputable).
While Centrum offers various formulations, with amounts of iron ranging as low as zero, specifically targeted at different age/gender groups, Yevo uses a one-size fits all approach that forces people to consume more iron than most need in a day. Yevo doesn’t offer separate not-a-smoothies for men, post-menopausal women, children, pregnant women, etc. If anyone is making an apples to oranges comparison, it is you.
Yevo is a putative solution in search of a problem that does not exist. Most people, aside from menstruating women and vegetarians, get more than enough iron from eating a normal diet, and taking supplemental iron is more likely to cause harm that benefit. And for the small proportion of the population that has iron deficiency, the consensus medical recommendation is to take a USP-grade supplement under medical supervision – not Yevo’s $hit.
Based on the facts at hand, it should be easy for you to agree that, with respect to iron content alone, Yevo is not ideal for men and post-menopausal women. Given that you now know this, it would be irresponsible to continue to market the product to those demographic groups. Centrum has the good sense not to, and so should you.
Susan said: “I wanted to discuss a different angle to looking at the cost of Yevo products. I think we’ve already beat the dead horse enough on looking at Yevo as a health supplement and the costs therein.”
“Beat the dead” horse meaning: failed in your repeated attempts to overturn the obvious conclusion that Yevo is a scandalously overpriced, poor-quality nutritional product. With that established, you now have permission to move on to your next fallacious argument.
Susan said: “I also wanted to add a note that other freeze-dried food products. Here is a breakfast items from a very prominent vendor: http://www.rei.com/product/800872/mountain-house-breakfast-skillet-2-servings. $3.75/serving. We are right in the ballpark as the Yevo food product costs especially if you add in the cost of the additional nutrients.”
Translation: Yevo is charging more for a serving of shitty oatmeal than a non-pyramid scheme company charges for a full breakfast consisting of scrabbled eggs, sausage, hash browns, peppers, and onions (one that’s shelf stable for up to 12+ years and provides almost twice as many calories). Another failed argument on your part if that was an attempt at demonstrating Yevo’s value. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Vogel Said “Again, you are simply ignoring what’s being spoon-fed to you. I posted a link just today to Centrum’s formulation for men and it contains only 8 mg iron, consistent with consensus recommendations.”
I’m not ignoring anything. I’m simply refuting your claim that consuming somewhere between 18-21mg of iron per day is slowly poising ones self. Furthermore, you stated that consuming even the RDA of iron increasing one’s risk for cardiovascular disease. More specifically, you claimed that Yevo was slowly poisoning their clients.
There is no basis what so ever to these claims and any human being with knowledge of the English language will see this. I provided a fact sheet, with clinical citations, from the US Department of Health and Humans Services that clearly shows the amounts of iron in Yevo products is well within safe consumption limits.
Arguing the minutia of whole food diets, other vendor products, and Dr. OZ doesn’t change any of these facts. I’ll let these facts stand on their own two feet.
You know Vogel, there are alot of people who can’t eat eggs or don’t like them for breakfast. I was just using the REI meal as an example of another freeze dried food. Just because something has more calories doesn’t mean anything. I can eat a twinkie and get more calories than a similar priced batch of carrots. Does that make the twinkie better?
You keep calling Yevo oatmeal shitty, but have never even tasked it. You have no basis for said opinion.
Lazyman, I don’t see this as looking stupid. I’m providing examples of other freeze dried foods with similar cost for quantity of food. The serving sizes are pretty similar.
Susan, you don’t see it as looking stupid, but everyone else does. You can’t compare a bowl of oatmeal to a 3 or 4 course meal containing natural (not fortified) proteins from egg and meat sources.
Next time you are at a diner wait for someone to order a typical egg, hashbrown, and sausage breakfast and give him some Fruit Loops instead. Let us know how happy that person is with the substitution and paying $10 for a bowl of cereal.
This is like comparing a Twinkie to the carrots that you mentioned just previously. It’s probably worse.
Susan said: “There is no basis what so ever to these claims and any human being with knowledge of the English language will see this. I provided a fact sheet, with clinical citations, from the US Department of Health and Humans Services that clearly shows the amounts of iron in Yevo products is well within safe consumption limits.”
Still missing the point I see. The data sheet in question shows that the amount of iron in Yevo exceeds the recommended daily dose for men and post-menopausal women, and that’s without even factoring the additional iron one would get from their daily diet. It also shows that the amount of iron in Yevo does not exceeds the upper limit for acute toxicity (e.g. GI distress), but that doesn’t mean it’s good for you long-term. Exceeding the recommended levels of iron intake chronically can lead to excess iron storage which is a predisposing factor for diseases like atherosclerosis. According to reliable sources that I presented, men and post-menopausal women should not take supplemental iron at all, and reputable supplement brands, like Centrum, make special formulations for different age/gender groups so as not to expose them to nutrients that they do not need or which may be detrimental to health. With respect to iron, Yevo offers a one-size fits all approach, and is not suitable for a large percentage of consumers. Those are the only facts that you need concern yourself with.
Susan said: “You know Vogel, there are alot of people who can’t eat eggs or don’t like them for breakfast.
That’s so ridiculous! I’m shaking my head in disbelief. There are a lot of people that are allergic to shellfish too, but that doesn’t mean that the price of a Maine lobster should be compared to a bowl of Yevo’s pyramid-scheme gruel or one of their shitty fish-scented not-a-smoothies.
Susan said: “I was just using the REI meal as an example of another freeze dried food.”
Right, and I just got done explaining for the second time why comparisons like that are idiotic.
Susa said: “You keep calling Yevo oatmeal shitty, but have never even tasked (sic) it. You have no basis for said opinion.”
I have every basis in the world for calling it shitty and I have explained several times why it is that I do; but as usual you play dumb. Distributors and Chip Marsland refer to the products as tasting and smelling fishy (because of protein/fat oxidation and choline, according to Chip) and it doesn’t take a Cordon Bleu graduate to know that it would taste bad just by looking at the ingredients and amounts – roughly 50% of the product’s weight is protein powder, and powdered minerals, vitamins, and amino acids, along with omega 3’s. What the F would you expect food to taste like when you dilute it 50% with ingredients that taste like chalk, fish, bile, etc. Even an innocuous ingredient like corn starch would make a dish taste like crap if it constituted 50% of the dish’s weight. And once again — and this is a fundamental point so it’s worth repeating for the umpteenth time – that is why sane food companies don’t make stupid products like Yevo’s over-fortified Franken-food. Yevo stands alone in their field – getting laughed at by all and looking completely ridiculous.
Lazyman Said “Susan, you don’t see it as looking stupid, but everyone else does. You can’t compare a bowl of oatmeal to a 3 or 4 course meal containing natural (not fortified) proteins from egg and meat sources.”
I don’t believe you and Vogel constitutes “Everyone Else”.
Have you ever eaten backpacking food? I have and it’s not restaurant quality — not even close. I’d taste test Yevo foods against that backpacking food every day of the week and twice on sundays and would easily win, hands down.
My point of showing the backpacking food was to try and show a similar product in that it’s freeze dried and is similar cost. It wasn’t to compare a restaurant meal against Yevo oatmeal. I would never argue the two where the same. Obviously, a nice meal at a restaurant is going to taste better than anything you pull out of a bag. Most people who make Yevo part of their diet aren’t going to comparing it against a meal at a restaurant.
On a somewhat related note: If a person where to eat two meals as you describe per day (i.e., breakfast meat, eggs, and hashbrowns) he is going to die of heart disease.
The point of these foods is to replace a meal or two a day with something that isn’t the unhealthy crap most Americans eat. Most Americans don’t take vitamins and they don’t eat whole foods. They eat processed crap full of sugar, unhealthy carbohydrate, fats, and other crap that gives them disease.
Also, most of these people want EASY and fast. These foods are dead easy to prepare. You just heat water, add it, let it sit for 3-5 min, and then eat. Or you add water, shake, and eat.
I wasn’t saying that backpacking food was restaurant quality. I was saying that there’s a difference between a 3-4 course meal with animal protein and a fortified bowl of oats.
I’m not seeing Yevo’s oatmeal marketed as backpacking food. It’s being marketed as a normal breakfast food, so REI’s products are a poor comparison.
While you are comparing Yevo to backpacking food, Yevo distributor Jodi Unruh is comparing it to restaurants… specifically McDonalds and Starbucks. These misleading arguments fail to point recognize restaurant overhead and convenience (such as a drive-thru or where many people get their coffee) as well as improved taste of food.
You were the one who picked the breakfast meat, eggs, and hashbrowns product to compare it to. You can’t use your terrible choice to suggest that people are going to die of heart disease if they they eat it twice a day. There are other foods in the line and if you are backpacking every day, your heart is probably going to be in very good shape.
Susan said, “The point of these foods is to replace a meal or two a day with something that isn’t the unhealthy crap most Americans eat. Most Americans don’t take vitamins and they don’t eat whole foods. They eat processed crap full of sugar, unhealthy carbohydrate, fats, and other crap that gives them disease.”
I thought it was for backpackers when backpacking. The vast majority of the public does not backpack every day, so wouldn’t be replacing with Yevo’s backpacking-specific oatmeal. See, you can’t have it both ways.
You realize that Yevo is the very processed crap that you suggest that people are already eating, right?
Susan said; “My point of showing the backpacking food was to try and show a similar product in that it’s freeze dried and is similar cost.”
Actually, the cost was not similar — the retail price of REI’s product is considerably less ($3.75 per serving) than that of Yevo oats ($6.13 for a comparable sized serving) and it wasn’t comparable food: REI’s product was a complete meal (eggs, sausage, hash browns, onions and peppers) and Yevo’s is basically a snack (one that unintentionally reeks like fish). Your comparison was an epic fail, which has been pointed out to you 3 times over already. Accept that it was an epic fail and move on instead of providing more lame excuses as to why you make these vapid comparisons.
I wouldn’t have a problem if Yevo marketed their products exclusively as backpacker food or as emergency supplies for preppers and their ilk, because after all, who else would want to eat processed shelf-stabilized food powder out of a bag. That very narrow demographic would make sense. Marketing it to anyone else doesn’t. And marketing it as a remedy for everything from Alzheimer’s to hemorrhoids, as has been the case, merits a swift kick in the balls, figuratively speaking.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1312258
Susan said: “Most people who make Yevo part of their diet aren’t going to comparing (sic) it against a meal at a restaurant.”
Um, BS! That’s in fact exactly what the company’s marketing materials and distributors do (e.g. comparing Yevo to McDonalds). Certainly you know that already, which proves once again that you are a barefaced liar.
https://www.yevo43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Oats-No-Sugar-Compare-Chart-20151103.pdf
http://www.brianbrinker.com/blog/yevo-vs-mcdonalds
https://www.facebook.com/holistic43/posts/1033509963339068
Not only that, they compare it to the cost of preparing a complete meal, and to bag upon bag of groceries.
http://www.successteamglobal.com/#!1-Yevo-Meal-Nutrients-30-Different-Healthy-Meals-Combined-GRAPHIC/cnde/5578a2a70cf293eac80a4d2b
http://thedoinggoodstore.com/files/106707713.pdf
http://foodbiz43.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/yevo-food-nutrients.png
http://www.43rich.com/uploads/1/6/0/4/16048382/yevo_presentation_flipbook_version2.pdf
Susa said: “On a somewhat related note: If a person where to eat two meals as you describe per day (i.e., breakfast meat, eggs, and hashbrowns) he is going to die of heart disease.”
That’s not a “related note”; it’s yet another fallacious and stupid straw-man argument. It was you who chose to compare Yevo to am egg, sausage and hash brown breakfast. Eating steak every day for twenty years is likely to predispose a person to heart disease, but that doesn’t mean that you can declare Yevo a better value than Kobe beef. Your comment argues against eating unhealthy foods, not in favor of consuming Yevo products. If you want to make more appropriate one-to-one comparisons, then that takes us back to comparing Yevo oatmeal to other brands of oatmeal, which we did already and Yevo failed that comparison miserably (14 times more expensive).
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/yevo-scam/comment-page-2/#comment-1311906
Susan said: “The point of these foods is to replace a meal or two a day with something that isn’t the unhealthy crap most Americans eat. Most Americans don’t take vitamins and they don’t eat whole foods. They eat processed crap full of sugar, unhealthy carbohydrate, fats, and other crap that gives them disease.”
Again, that’s an argument in favor of eating whole foods and not eating “unhealthy crap”. It is not an argument in favor of Yevo’s stupidly overpriced and over-processed powdered Franken-foods.
Susan said: “Also, most of these people want EASY and fast. These foods are dead easy to prepare. You just heat water, add it, let it sit for 3-5 min, and then eat. Or you add water, shake, and eat.”
Yes idiot, we all understand how to prepare oatmeal. Yevo’s is no easier to make than any other brand of instant oats. It’s just more much more expensive. In fact, Quaker One Minute Oats is both far less expensive than Yevo’s oats and even easier to prepare (1 minute).
So now, according to Yevo, their products cure diabetes too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw52t28uJFI
F you insulin! Yevo’s not-a-smoothie to the rescue!
The countdown clock to implosion is ticking.
Vogel said: “Um, BS! That’s in fact exactly what the company’s marketing materials and distributors do (e.g. comparing Yevo to McDonalds). Certainly you know that already, which proves once again that you are a barefaced liar.”
I wouldn’t call McDonald’s “Diner” food, which is what Lazyman was originally referring to. McDonald’s is processed crap this will surely kill you if you make a regular diet of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me
Baldface liar is pretty extreme, don’t ya think?
Lazyman: Point taken on the backpacking analogy.
I would say that McDonalds is closer to a diner (they are both restaurants) than Yevo is to either (not a restaurant).
I’ve seen Super Size Me… and Spurlock’s rules for himself were not geared to not eating healthy there. You can not generalize all their food as “surely killing you” as they have a number of healthy options available. They’ve even discontinued the Super Size menu. In any case, this is an irrelevant tangent by Susan to deflect criticism from Yevo to another organization. Let’s keep the topic on Yevo’s processed crap please.