A few years ago my wife was approached by someone to buy $45 bottles of juice called MonaVie. As a personal finance writer, I felt I had to research how this company could stay in business pricing the product at 10x more than competition with no proven benefits. Turns out the answer was that MonaVie is really selling people on a business recruiting others and requiring them to buy the juice as an ongoing expense to continue with the business opportunity. In the process, so much was about MonaVie was uncovered that I had to create MonaVie Scam. The website has provided tons of irrefutable evidence supported by reputable third parties that MonaVie is a grossly overpriced product, with little nutritional value, wrapped in a poor business opportunity that the FTC guidelines say is an illegal pyramid scheme, which is itself wrapped in illegal medical claims, supported by nonsensical “scientific” studies, and tied to a fraudulent charity. Fortunately there is now a class-action lawsuit against MonaVie as others have seen the evidence.
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In that MonaVie discussion, another MLM distributor introduced me to another MLM. It turns out that one was just as bad as MonaVie
Lastly, a couple of distributors mentioned One24 – a company that bills itself as a way to retire in 24 months – as long as you recruit enough people. It’s a classic pyramid scheme according to the FTC guidelines. So I wrote an article warning people that One24 is a scam.
On that One24 article a distributor brought up the name of ViSalus and the performance of their distributors. The name was familiar to me, so I searched through my email. I had one back from June from an Aretus Smith who asked me if it was legit or not. I get a couple of these requests a month for various companies and I don’t have the time to research them, so my answer wasn’t very good. Then six weeks ago Troy Brian sent an spam email to about 250 people “involved” in MonaVie (somehow the person selling this list has added my name and bunch of others illegally) telling them about a ViSalus challenge. So when Todd Hirsch brought up ViSalus on the One24 thread, I decided to spend a few minutes looking into it.
It didn’t take me long to find a lot of deceptive marketing designed to take advantage of consumers.
The first place on ViSalus’ website that got my attention was the section of white papers. The section above says, “Our white papers are designed to share the science behind our breakthrough products, methods, and sales innovations in order to help you become a more informed consumer.” I looked through the white papers and all but were by one guy: Michael Seidman. This fits the MonaVie mold of using Alexander Schauss to create research to market their products.
This is probably the time to point out that Michael Seidman has a past history of selling the public on products that aren’t shown to work. Here’s a quote from ScienceBlogs.com about a foot detox system, Aqua-Chi:
“When you ask me, ‘Does it sound crazy?’ My answer is ‘Yes,’ ” says Seidman. “But my response is also that it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s wrong just because we don’t understand it.”
I did a little more digging and found the rest of his quote here:
“Seidman adds that there could be a psychosomatic element, that ‘if you believe that you’re going to feel better and reduce your stress, then you probably will.'”
In other words, “if I lie to you and tell you this is going to help it probably will due to placebo effect.” This is the same thing we’ve seen MonaVie and just about every health MLM you can think of. Here’s another “doctor” with a checkered past essentially spilling the beans about scams like these.
I looked at a random white paper sample: “Age-related Hearing Loss and its Association with Reactive Oxygen Species and Mitochondrial DNA damage*” and I couldn’t find anything in it where a ViSalus product was tested in any way. As best I can tell there’s no product between this white paper and any ViSalus product. I clicked on a couple more and glanced through them and didn’t see any connection either. If there are any white papers on the list that are related to any ViSalus products, I hope someone will use the comments to point out the connection to me. More importantly, I hope someone writes ViSalus and tells them to clearly explain the significance of these papers to the products.
Update: CBC News in Canada has looked into ViSalus’ deceptive marketing claims and Canada regulatory boards are looking into it.
The Value of ViSalus Vi-Shake
I also looked into the value of the ViSalus Vi-Shake product. ViSalus gives a comparison chart here. It looks pretty convincing, doesn’t it. ViSalus makes it look even more convincing with a chart comparing a ViSalus Shake to nutrients found in everyday foods. Not surprising, it would cost nearly $103 in various foods to match the $1.85 cost of Vi-Shape and milk. The point is emphasized with this video:
This reminds of those Total commercials where you have eat 20 bowls of another cereal to match the nutrition in one bowl of Total. This YouTube video explains with a spreadsheet the deceptive marketing in detail.
However, much like those Total commercials when you dig a little deeper into Vi-Shape isn’t all that impressive. In fact, it looks like a poor purchasing decision. Take a look at the ingredients. It’s essentially a blend of protein (including soy, more on that later), the “fake” fiber that MonaVie adds, and a pretty good multi-vitamin.
As a personal finance writer, I want to get the most value for my dollar. So I was wondering if I could create something pretty close to the same for a cheaper cost. The price per serving of the ViSalus Vi-Shape mix is $1.50. Let’s look at what we can do for each of the main three areas (protein, fiber, and multi-vitamin):
- Protein – I was at Costco the other day and found this 6lb Bag of Muscle Milk for $37. It is 78 servings of 27g of protein. That’s a total of 2106 grams of protein in the bag. Vi-Shape has 12g of protein so this bag would provide you a little more than 175 servings of protein. If you have a Costco member, this amounts to $0.21 for the protein portion of the ViSalus. If you don’t have a Costco membership, the Amazon price is less than 28.5 cents for the same amount of protein in the Vi-Shape shake.
- Fiber – Doing a little more shopping on Amazon, I found Metamucil Clear and Natural Powder, which is a product that I have and use. It’s tasteless and can be added to just about anything. This 11.7 ounce bottle has 57 servings of 5 grams of fiber – the same amount in a ViSalus shake. The $11.84 price on Amazon boils down to 21 cents a serving – the same amount as the protein from Costco.
- Multivitamin – You can find multivitamins anywhere and they differ greatly in what they offer. You’ll almost never two that are exactly alike, so it is impossible to compare in the same way we compare 5 grams of fiber or 12 grams of protein. However, the body can only process so much of a vitamin at any given time and the rest goes out through the urine. I found a Centrum Multivitamin on Amazon for 7 cents a pill that has 30 vitamins and minerals compared to the 23 in a ViSalus shake mix. It’s worth noting what Consumer Reports says about vitamins: “But many people taking the pills don’t need to. Despite their popularity there’s virtually no evidence that they improve the average person’s health.”For all practical purposes, we’ll have to consider this equal, especially since they may be completely unnecessary to begin with. The same Consumer Reports article mentions that Kirkland (Costco’s brand) can bring the price down to under a nickel.
It’s very easy to mix the protein and fiber to make a shake mix. Get a gallon bag, pour the Metamucil Clear into it… then put 25 scoops of the Muscle Milk into it. You now have 57 servings of 12g protein and 5g fiber. Take a multivitamin with the shake… done. I answer to the name Lazy Man and not even I am that lazy. If you are a member of Costco, the homemade version will cost you $0.47 a serving ($0.21 + $0.21 + 0.05). If you are not a member of Costco and just want to buy off of Amazon it will cost you $0.57 ($0.29 + $0.21 + $0.07).
I’d rather pay about 50 cents a serving than $1.50 wouldn’t you? It may only seem like a dollar a day, but it adds up to $365 a year. That’s very little work for a large payoff.
The Value of ViSalus Vi-Crunch Cereal
In the comments below, Vogel did some good analysis on Vi-Crunch, the ViSalus cereal. In particular there was a comparison with Kashi GoLean cereal one that I brought on as I consider it to be a relatively healthy cereal with 9 gram of protein and 8 grams of fiber. Vi-Crunch has more protein (12g) and less fiber (5g), so I consider essentially a wash nutritionally. I will admit that Vi-Crunch has lower sugar and salt, so it probably takes like dirt… we’ll get back to this in a bit. For now, let’s leave it as a minor difference that at one serving per day isn’t going to make or break your diet. A serving of Vi-Crunch is 3/4 cup vs. a serving of Kashi that is 1 cup… so this is going to make Kashi seem like a lower calorie option, but it is simply less food.
Now let’s get a little “mathy.” Vogel breaks down the total weight of Vi-Crunch cereal noting that it is $50 (minus a penny) for 630g of cereal. A 23.1 ounce box of Kashi GOLEAN Crunch! Cereal is 604g and that’s going for $5.69 per box on Amazon (Vogel does similar math for Wal-Mart if that’s your store of choice). Doing the math it turns out that ViCrunch is 8.42 times more expensive than Kashi GoLean. Choosing Vi-Crunch is like going to the grocery store, seeing two similar products with similar nutrition, and grabbing the $25 one vs. the $3 one right next to it.
But it gets worse. Remember the part about Vi-Crunch having lower sugar and salt and probably not tasting as well. Well ViSalus solves that by creating ViCrunch Fusions, a topping that you can add to make it taste better. They are $11 for 7 servings… or $1.57 per serving, and that’s extra.
To do a little more math, let’s say that you eat 50g of cereal per serving (a number between ViCrunch’s and Kashi GoLean’s serving size). Standardizing on a serving size allows us to compare apples to apples. A 50g serving of ViCrunch is going to cost you $3.97 while a 50g serving of GoLean is going to cost you $0.47. If you add the ViCrunch Fusion topping, you’ll get a little more food, but it pushes your cost up to $5.54, which is well over ten times the cost of GoLean now.
Eat that bowl of ViCrunch everyday for a year and you’ll spend $2,022. Eat a bowl of GoLean Crunch and you’ll spend $171.55. If you were thinking about buying ViCrunch, reading this article just saved you $1850 this year alone. If you are a family of four, it saved you $7,401. For most people, if their boss gave them a $10,000 raise today, they’d take somewhere around that $7,401 after taxes. Do you want to blow $10,000 of your salary this year on cereal?
Oh one more thing. Amazon will give you free shipping if you spend $25. ViSalus can’t match that… shipping is extra.
Visalus Distributor: “But Our Product is Higher Quality”
This is what every MLM distributor says to justify the artificially high price of the product (see the aforementioned $45 bottle of MonaVie juice). It’s one thing to claim a product is high quality, but it is another thing to prove it. The blog Living la Vida Low Carb takes an in-depth look – it is well worth reading before you try the product. ViSalus contains soy, which is a controversial ingredient, especially for men. The blog asks the doctor who literally wrote the book on soy and she says that ViSalus’ response to why it uses soy is completely wrong. Furthermore, ViSalus uses the artificial sweetener sucralose and the company’s response on the blog is ridiculously convoluted.
In addition to the point about soy, it is an even cheaper ingredient that the whey protein. So if you are a female and determine that soy is a better option for you, substitute that in the above shake and you’ll save even more money.
The blog Young and Raw examines the ingredients of ViSalus and comes to the conclusion that “this product is total crap.”
ViSalus’ Illegal Health Claims
As I’ve found with the other health-based MLMs that I’ve followed, it’s quite common for the company and/or distributors to illegal push their food/supplement as medicine, by saying that it helps with some health condition. This illegal and misleading marketing isn’t the kind of thing that you see from companies selling products in your grocery store or supplement companies selling at GNC.
I had thought that ViSalus was fairly safe from these things. After all, the products are mostly for weight loss. So any kind of health claim could be easily traced to a person losing weight, which, as a reminder, can happen with any number of products (ViSalus brings nothing special or unique to the table). However, in watching this YouTube video about ViSalus allegedly clearing up a person’s kidney problems in days, it is quite clear that ViSalus is marketing their product illegally. The video is an episode of The Pyramid Thing, which is a series of videos following ViSalus distributors including their co-founder Nick Sarnicola. (Keep reading and you’ll find that the video is accurately named as Sarnicola is running an illegal pyramid scheme according to the FTC’s guidelines.)
Lest you be tempted to try the product for any health condition, I caution you against it. After all MLM health products don’t work and if you think that’s just my opinion, a non-profit consortium of doctors asked me if they could republish my article on their site: You can read it here.
The ViSalus BMW Scam
Whenever you hear about the business of ViSalus, you’ll like come across three letters: BMW. Prospective distributors are getting pitches of “free BMWs.” However, that could be further from the truth. The BMWs are not free. If you were to qualify for a BMW from ViSalus, you’d be wise to refuse it. Why? I’ll get to that in a second. First, let me cover…
The ViSalus BMW Pitch
This is the pitch straight from the compensation plan:
“Since ViSalus™ knows our distributors are people who align themselves with only the BEST, and aspire to live the ‘Vi–Life’, it is only fitting that our producers be recognized in a way that echoes their commitment to excellence: The ViSalus Bimmer Club!
By reaching the level of Regional Director or higher, ViSalus Distributors qualify to join the prestigious Bimmer Club and become eligible for a monthly BMW Bonus that goes toward a ViSalus–branded black BMW.”
Take a minute and notice the language here: “the BEST”, the “aspire to live the ‘Vi-Life'”, “the prestigious Bimmer Club.” How could you not want to be a part of that, right?
So why should you refuse the BMW? The fine print shows that they’ll give you the $600/mo. only if you maintain the level of sales in your downline. If you understand the churn rate in MLM, you know that somewhere between 60% and 90% of your downline will drop out each year. Thus maintaining the level for the BMW is difficult. That itself wouldn’t be a problem, except for one little thing, The BMW is in your name.
If sales drop, you need to come up with the payments on the car. This can be especially difficult because, well, your sales have dropped so you are earning less. Distributors are finding that their credit gets ruined because the BMW got them saddled with an expense that they couldn’t afford. The alternative to the BMW is to take a $300/mo. bonus in cash. It isn’t the flashy BMW, but you avoid the strings attached.
It reminds me of the mortgage lenders in 2004 and 2005 offering people adjustable rate loans to give them low initial payments. Many people found that this allowed them to afford their dream house (i.e. “the BEST”, the “prestigious house”), but when the rates re-adjusted they had big financial problems. The people who were smart didn’t get seduced by the dream and made the wise financial decision with minimal risk.
If ViSalus was a reputable company looking to do the right thing for its distributors, they’d offer them the option to assume the lease if their sales don’t qualify. They don’t do that. Instead the plan seems to saddle distributors with an expensive BMW so that they have extra motivation to make sure that their sales don’t drop. Finally, you don’t have to drive around in a big advertisement.
The ViSalus Challenge
A lot of commenters have suggested that ViSalus creates a community with a common goal and that buddy helps people lose weight. They specifically point to the ViSalus 90-Day challenge. I don’t argue that point at all… but I have a better way.
There’s a free website called SparkPeople that is health community and it has challenges as well. Additionally you could also use another site StickK.com (my article on it: StickK to Your Goals) to keep you motivated.
There’s no need to overpay for product or be an accomplice in a pyramid scheme to reach your health goals.
Is ViSalus a Pyramid Scheme?
The answer, in my opinion, is yes! I realize this is a serious accusation, but follow me on this. First watch this video about the “ViSalus Refer 3, Get Next Month Free!” program:
Before I get to the pyramid scheme part let’s get to the false claim made in the first 20 seconds, “It allows everybody… do it at absolutely no cost.” It is mathematically impossible for everybody to do it at no cost. For every single person doing it at no cost, there must be at least 3 times the product paid for from others. There is no situation where everyone gets the product for free. Of course, it would put the company out business, so that’s not to be expected, but this false marketing shouldn’t be allowed.
If you understand how it works, you end up referring other people to buy product. In the video, the spokesman makes a special point of saying that you are referring “customers, not distributors” to buy kits. However, those “customers” are in fact distributors as they can do the same. At the 3:30 mark it is confirmed by the spokesperson saying (paraphrasing) “if one of your customers refers three customers and get their kit for free, you still get yours.” In other words, ViSalus has just confused the traditional definition of an MLM distributor with a customer in this video. It still hits what the FBI says about pyramid schemes:
“At the heart of each pyramid scheme is typically a representation that new participants can recoup their original investments by inducing two or more prospects to make the same investment.”
There’s also this from the FTC:
“Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. Some are pyramid schemes. It’s best not to get involved in plans where the money you make is based primarily on the number of distributors you recruit and your sales to them, rather than on your sales to people outside the plan who intend to use the products.”
In referring people you have not made a sale to someone outside of ViSalus, but recruited what amounts to a distributor who can refer others as well. This person is now considered “within ViSalus” rather than outside ViSalus. It is a very, very tricky thing for most people to understand without having experience in looking into these schemes.
The FTC has put out a lot of documentation on this. I’ve compiled it into a guide at MLMs Vs. Pyramid Schemes. The thing that dooms this ViSalus program to being a pyramid scheme is that sales aren’t to end customers, but to people who are essentially distributors since they too can refer others.
Update 1: From ViSalus’ IPO filing, CNBC found this beauty: “we do not believe that we are subject to laws regulating pyramid schemes… there is a risk that a governmental agency or court could disagree with our assessment…”
If there wasn’t a very real risk of ViSalus being a pyramid scheme, there would be no need to warn about it. Do you think IBM or McDonalds has such disclosures in their SEC filings? Hint: They don’t.
Update 2: On January 28, 2013, the FTC Halted the Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing Scam Halted as a Pyramid Scheme. In doing so the FTC and three states listed a number of reasons why they went to a federal court to shut Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing (FHTM) down. Big thanks goes to Jeff who outlined a few the similarities using the documentation from the FTC (PDF) and what is publicly known about ViSalus (citations valid at time of publishing, ViSalus may move and/or change their marketing):
- FTC on FHTM: “Defendants target consumers with an entrepreneurial spirit, emphasizing that FHTM provides an opportunity to build a business which can rapidly provide financial independence”
ViSalus’s Rewards page (first video): “To be able to become financially free from just partying with our friends, there’s nothing like it.” - FTC: “FHTM routinely touts six and seven-figure incomes to new recruits, assuring them that they will be able to achieve these results as long as they are willing to work hard.”
ViSalus’s Rewards page (first video): “Challenge promoters can earn anywhere from a few hundred of dollars per month to hundreds of thousands of dollars per month… There’s opportunity here that you can make a lot of money and you can change your lifestyle in a big, big way… If it’s just to cut down at work or if it’s to leave your job altogether like I did, this business will allow you to do that.”As we’ll cover below, the average ViSalus distributor barely makes $250 a month and those are best case scenarios. Given the skewed money at the top, the people at the bottom lose money.
- FTC: “As with any pyramid scheme, FHTM’s defining characteristic is a compensation plan that is skewed heavily in favor of recruitment over sales.”
Visalus has 8 ways to earn money in the compensation plan. 7 of those ways require that you recruit people. Visalus’ “Getting Started Training” doesn’t focus on selling product, it focuses on becoming a “Director in 7 Days” which means you have to recruit 3 people. - FTC: “Plaintiffs have submitted overwhelming evidence demonstrating both FHTM’s deceptive earnings claims and its operation of a pyramid scheme—either of which alone is sufficient grounds… FHTM dangles the promise of riches in order to lure consumers into joining its scheme. FHTM makes these promises in a variety of ways—though in person presentations, pre-recorded presentations, webcasts, and live and pre-recorded conference calls—but no matter what the medium, the company’s rags to riches tales are patently false for nearly everyone who joins… At FHTM’s most recent national convention, FHTM paraded its top thirty earners on stage with mock-up of a $64 million check.”
Visalus does the big-check at their national convention and Nick and Ashley Sarnicola holding up a $1,000,000 big check here.
One more thing that FHTM marketing and ViSalus have in common… they both emphasized a free BMW as a promoter reward.
Update 3
Recently ViSalus put out an interesting press release. It starts off with, “ViSalus… has added 10 new top industry professionals to the roster of Vi Promoters. Veteran heavy hitters Patrick Ashby, C. Anthony Harris, Ron & Tony Jarrah, Chris & James Levins, Tina Lewis, Steve & Yvette Mitchell, and Charles Monk all paved the way to success with ViSalus in 2014.”
It proceeds to list them and give a little profile. Here’s part of one example, “C. Anthony Harris attributes his success and attaining the rank of 2-Star Ambassador in just 45 days* to teamwork and his commitment to continuously challenging others.”
The “*” is an important disclaimer. In the press release it means, “* Results not typical. Achievement in rank and income depends upon many factors such as hard work, determination, financial resources and social contacts.”
Personally, I find the “hard work” and “determination” characteristics utter bullshit, when a person reaches one of the top levels in just 45 days. The fact is C. Anthony Harris was already a “Double Platinum Senior Vice President” in 5LINX. So it was the contact list that made him a 2-Star Ambassador at ViSalus.
Now do you think C. Anthony Harris’ money is based on him selling a ton of product to people outside of ViSalus? Keep in mind that’s a lot of product to sell in 45 days. I hope he’s got a really popular booth at a very popular sporting event, because he’s going to need it to make all those sales.
The bringing on “veteran heavy hitters” who quickly achieve the ranks that few long-time ViSalus distributors ever receive is yet another giant red flag that ViSalus is a pyramid scheme.
The Business of ViSalus
“The women I interviewed for “The Pink Pyramid Scheme” told me stories about struggling to patch together daycare or to survive high-risk pregnancies while working long hours scouting prospects and hosting parties without any guarantee of a sale. Debts mounted, marriages failed. They couldn’t have it all because Mary Kay’s business model (like that of any multilevel-marketing enterprise) is designed primarily to profit from, rather than enrich, its workforce.”
That’s from a Harper’s Magazine report on Mary Kay, one of the most “respected” MLMs. I highlighted the key point as this article is about ViSalus and not Mary Kay.
A Former Distributor Busts Some ViSalus Myths
We had the fortune of a “successful” former distributor, Joy, has given us some insight.
Money Back Guarantee is Bogus – According to her, “the ‘money back guarantee’ that means nothing and here is the reason why. If you lose 1 pound you can not get your money back. So if you are a little bloated the first day you weigh in or maybe constipated then you weigh in at losing 1LB you in fact have not lost anything but yet you are out of you money.”
An Imploding Business – “I was ‘smart’ enough and ‘worked hard enough’ to get to RD and continued to ‘follow the system,’ ‘force my calender’ and be at challenge parties almost every night. I had over 900 active customers in the beginning of June (2012), by September I had less then 40!! So how was that my fault, when I followed the system to a T? I use to (unknowingly) tell people the same lie you are currently telling others.”
Getting Product for Free – “I should also mention that out of 900 customers I only had about 10 getting theirs free.” – January 30, 2013 at 8:08 am
ViSalus’ Imploding Business
The commenter’s story above about ViSalus’ imploding business is backed up by their own press releases.
May 8, 2013 Press Release:
“At the end of the first quarter, qualified independent North American Promoters totaled more than 70,000 versus more than 92,000 Promoters at the end of the prior year’s first quarter.”
“ViSalus had over 57,000 qualified independent promoters in North America at the end of the second quarter compared to over 70,000 promoters at the end of the first quarter. The Company also has nearly 4,000 qualified promoters internationally. Prior year second quarter ending promoter count was over 114,000.”
For those following, that’s exactly a drop in half in one year (>114K to >57K).
“At the end of the fourth quarter, qualified independent North American promoters totaled approximately 35,000 versus 76,000 promoters at the end of the prior year’s fourth quarter.”
For those still following, that’s ANOTHER more than half drop in one year (>76K to >35K).
ViSalus and their representatives make it sound like it easy to build your own pyramid scheme recruit a team, but with many more people leaving than joining, clearly getting people to join is a very difficult task. If everyone in was able to recruit only one person, distributors would double, but instead it is going in half. They can’t even keep the people they have, much less grow. What are the odds that you are going to be able to recruit 3 who will also recruit 3 who recruit 3, etc.? Remember that their “plan” illustrates you building a pyramid team of HUNDREDS to earn a full-time income and most ViSalus people can’t even maintain their pyramid team.
Vi-Net Pro and Vi-Net Swipe
When you become a ViSalus distributor you are automatically enrolled in Vi-Net Pro subscription for $29 a month… unless you choose to upgrade that to Vi-Net Swipe for $39 a month.
Lets look into Vi-Net Pro’s value. Vi-Net Pro consists of a website and a magazine. The website is a place where you can send prospective ViSalus buyers to. ViSalus maintains it and updates it with videos, a way to capture contact information, and a few other features. I won’t say that this has zero value because it clearly is useful, but ViSalus shouldn’t be charging distributors for it. Remember that MLM distributors are commissioned employees. This is like your company charging you to use their corporate email system to work for them. Websites are incredibly cheap to produce (get a free Tumblr or WordPress blog for instance), and the development of the tools they are providing appears to be minimal. WordPress blogs can do all this for free with little or no programming.
With the Vi-Net Pro comes a magazine called Success. Like ViSalus’ business opportunity it is a sheep in wolves clothing. Success pitches MLM in the most positive light and never mentions the negatives. The reason for that? Success Magazine is owned by VideoPlus. The title of the VideoPlus website is “VideoPlus was founded as a media and marketing communications company offering innovative, turnkey solutions for the direct selling industry.” (Note: Direct Selling is falsely used as a replacement for “MLM” by MLM distributors because “MLM” has a bad connotation: MLM vs. Network Marketing vs. Direct Selling.) A large percentage of VideoPlus’ clients are indeed MLM companies (some examples: Usana, HerbaLife, Noni, Shaklee, Nu Skin, Ambit Energy, Monavie, Amway, Vemma, and yes, ViSalus).
In short the Vi-Net Pro subscription for nearly $350 a year gives ViSalus distributors a website that should be free and monthly propaganda paid for by ViSalus. Remember that Harper’s quote above about MLMs being designed primarily to profit from, rather than enrich, its workforce. If you do an Internet search, you can learn how to cancel Vi-Net Pro and go to Vi-Net Lite.
A distributor in the comments raved about Vi-Net Pro Swipe saying that the ability to take credit cards right from a smart phone was worth $39 a month. If you watch this ViSalus promotional video you’d think they’d have been working on this technology for some time and that it is true innovation. However, like every MLM “innovation” I’ve come across (see MonaVie Perks), it’s a white label solution – a product that ViSalus didn’t develop. ViSalus Swiper is simply a branded solution from Roam Data, where they ” outfit everything from the app, to the swipe, to the collateral for you.”
The $10 a month extra that ViSalus charges is actually a fair price. That’s what this this merchant charges (see monthly plan fee). You could get your own Swiper without ViSalus. The value in Vi-Net Swipe for ViSalus is two-fold. First, they deceive distributors into thinking they are doing all this work. Second, in order to get the $10 Swiper technology, a distributor has to pay for the $29 Vi-Net Pro, that ViSalus should give distributors for free.
If ViSalus was looking to increase it’s sales of product and help distributors, they would give you all the website tools for free, switch the propaganda magazine to a nationally recognized brand like Entrepreneur, and offer Swiper at a maximum of $10/mo. Ideally, they would completely cover, or at least split that cost with distributors and make up the difference increased sales.
How Much Money Does the Average ViSalus Distributor Make?
Thanks to some great sleuthing by commenter Brandon, we can crunch some numbers and find out how much the average ViSalus distributor makes. According to ViSalus’ May 4th, 2012 press release, ViSalus brought in $136.7 million with “over 92,000 distributors” in the most recent quarter. That’s $1485.87 per distributor. Since a quarter is three months, it comes out to about $495 a month per distributor. That’s Visalus sales.
The commissions paid out to distributors has to be a fraction of that since ViSalus needs money to produce the product and pay corporate. If we were to be extremely generous and presume that ViSalus pays out half of the $495 number to distributors, each distributor would average around $250 in revenue a month… not profit. The distributors themselves have to buy $125 worth of the product per month unless they sell $200 worth of product per month (cue the unnecessarily complex compensation plan intended to confuse the average distributor) or else they sacrifice their commission. Because selling $200 a month is hardly guaranteed, most buy the $125 a month and use it themselves.
The $250/mo. revenue is $3000 a year. However, they give up $125/mo. The actual profit is much lower after spending $125 for the product, the Vi-Net Pro subscription, tools such as brochures, and travel costs for conferences like the recent one in Miami.
It’s worth noting that if those 92,000 are all on the default Vi-Net Pro (I expect a small amount will be on Swipe and Lite, balancing them out a bit), ViSalus is booking some $32 million ($348 * 92,000) of it’s $136 million in sales of websites and Success magazine just to its distributor base.
Finally, there’s this bombshell… the founder of ViSalus “generates” more than 50% of the sales and make money than all other distributors:
ViSalus supporters claim that Nick Sarnicola (the founder in question) resigned from the company to be a distributor and show that anyone can be successful in ViSalus. Unfortunately, ViSalus just poached other MLM company downlines getting many high ranking distributors to each bring over thousands of distributors under Sarnicola. How did Sarnicola recruit all these people? MLMs often offer private signing bonuses to those who have created a substantial pyramid. Nick Sarnicola admitted to putting together some “investors” to lure Robert Dean to Visalus. Of course he only admitted this behind the scenes deal because Robert Dean took the money and then left ViSalus. It’s speculation on my part, but the most logical explanation for how these people got recruited to ViSalus was a signing bonus as well.
So sure you could have the same success as Sarnicola in ViSalus, but only if you are given both the means and the connections to poach top people from numerous MLM downlines. Don’t think that you can recruit all these people one-by-one from talking to your friends, family, or even your social groups. Also, according to the FTC guidelines on MLMs and pyramid schemes Sarnicola would have to be selling quite a lot of product to people not involved in ViSalus or else his “business” is running a pyramid scheme:
“Avoid any plan where the reward for recruiting new distributors is more than it is for selling products to the public. That’s a time tested tip-off to a pyramid scheme.”
When you read that ViSalus is paying out a majority of commissions, keep in mind that it’s keeping a good portion of the money itself and of the portion that it actually pays out, a good chunk goes to Nick Sarnicola, who still owns millions of dollars worth of ViSalus shares when it goes public at a $175 million value. Update: ViSalus canceled their IPO citing market conditions… which seems disingenuous because the Dow Jones was at a 4-year at the time and ViSalus was claiming great growth. I’m not sure they could ask for better market conditions.
ViSalus IPO Filing
Though I mentioned it above in the pyramid scheme section, this article from CNBC warning Beware the Get Rich Quick IPO has a lot of great information about ViSalus. In addition to the pyramid scheme stuff ViSalus says its “marketing system depends upon the successful recruitment, retention and motivation of a large number of individual promoters to offset frequent turnover.” In other words, due to the high churn rate in MLM, they have to resort to motivation techniques like the crazy cult seminars in Miami.
ViSalus’ Project 10 Kids
I received a comment about Project 10 Kids. The idea behind this program is to give overweight or obese children 30 ViSalus meals when a ViSalus distributor or customer loses 10 pounds or gains 10 pounds of muscle.
This is a very classic MLM charity scam. It’s designed to make people feel good through self-licensing, so that they continue to stay in the scam, paying month after month. The commenter made the point that the kids are getting kid-sized shakes that are half the already diminutive shakes mentioned above… 45 calories. Using the above numbers of it costing a consumer about 50 cents per Vi-Shake serving, the kids shake, at half size, would be 25 cents. That amounts to the donation being $7.50 of consumer cost and probably close to $3.75 for the cost to ViSalus.
So if you lose 10 pounds on ViSalus products, ViSalus will kick back around $4 to help an obese child. I’m all for helping obese children. When you read this article and realize that you can save $2000 a year by substituting Vi-Shakes and Vi-Cereal for essentially equivalent options, won’t you please donate $50 to help the fight against child obesity? You’ll still be saving over $1950 a year, you’ll be putting between 5 and 10 times more money to work, and most importantly, you can rest easy knowing that the organization will teach the kids nutrition from real food (not a shake), all while avoiding what appears to be a pyramid scheme. That’s what I call a win-win-win-win.
ViSalus Bottom Line
The title of this article made the point that ViSalus was a scam. ViSalus distributors and supporters take exception of the use of the word scam with ViSalus. Wikipedia defines scam as a confidence trick. At a minimum, the marketing around ViSalus Vi-Shape Shake is clearly designed to deceive… to a level that the Canadian regulator boards are looking into it.
Beyond the deceptive marketing (which should be enough) there’s:
- ViSalus Vi-Shakes have some very questionable ingredients from soy protein to artificial sweeteners.
- ViSalus’ “Free BMW” program (which isn’t free) uses tactics similar to the mortgage lenders that got people locked into payments they couldn’t afford. The ViSalus IPO filing of noting the “frequent turnover” makes it especially dangerous as the bonus relies on a consistent downline of people.
And let’s not forget:
A “business opportunity” that appears to be a pyramid scheme. Not only that, but it also charges ~$30 a month for a cookie-cutter website that should be free along with a propaganda-based magazine disguised as a legitimate business publication. The business opportunity on average grosses people very little money and likely puts people at a loss when accounting for buying product, website costs, and other marketing materials. The ViSalus IPO filing cites the marketing system is dependent on recruitment (yet another sign of a pyramid scheme according to the FTC)
My Gift to You
If you’ve read this far, I appreciate your dedication. Whether you found what you were looking for or not in the article above, I want to help you with your financial situation. It’s what I do.
Here are two things you can do to put yourself in a better financial position:
- Create an Emergency Fund – Dobot squirrels small amounts of money from your checking account to its FDIC-insured account. It’s 100% free. You simply have to create a goal of having an emergency fund. You don’t have to think about it and you’ll likely never notice the small amount of money being moved. I’ve squirreled away more than $1100. You can read my Dobot review here.
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For more visit my five minute financial fixes article. If neither of the above is helpful, I’m sorry. I appreciate you for just being here. The person recruiting you has a financial incentive to present only one side of the story. Kudos to you for searching for more information to make an informed decision.
ViSalus Additional Viewing and Reading
Here’s a great, humorous video, explaining many of the issues with ViSalus:
In addition to that, this investigative report from SIRF Online about ViSalus is not to be missed. Outstanding investigative work!
I also liked this article: Pill Power – ViSalus has taken root in Silicon Valley. Is it a brave new world of health and success, or just a pyramid scheme?
Originally published: Published on: Nov 7, 2011
This is just too bloody amazing. Visalus’ latest cereal offering is actually a 2-part deal. You have to buy the cereal (Vi Crunch) and then buy a second product called Vi Crunch Fusion Flavor Topping to sprinkle on top of the Vi- Crunch so that it’s palatable.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/visalus-puts-real-cereal-vi-130000353.html
What an incredibly stupid idea.
I heard that Lucky Charms experimented with selling the marshmallows separately and Raisin Bran with the Raisins separately. Wait, no they didn’t. That never happened.
The Orlando, Florida Visalus brouhaha (and I do mean “ha ha”) was this past weekend. Someone I know went and he posted pictures on facebook. He posted a picture of his team eating greasy pizza and drinking Pepsi; yet in the same “breath” he talked about how much he wants to help people lose weight. He has lost a lot of close friends since he started the program. He claims that his family and friends are trying to hold him back so he’s planning to cut those people out of his life. I’ve got some news for him; his friends have already cut him out of their lives. They are tired of the nonsense and lies. For all the Visalus people: don’t waste your time with a comment telling me that his case is an isolated incident. I know better and so do you!
Oh these Visalus F-ers are so busted!!! I was just checking the nutrition panel for their new crap cereal and comparing it with Kashi Go Lean Crunch. First thing I noticed is that the recommended serving size for Vi Crunch (3/4 cup) is 25% lower than that for Kashi (1 cup), so the calorie count per ounce is actually not lower for Vi Crunch (170 cal per 3/4 cup serving) than for Kashi (200 cal per 1 cup serving). But then when you add the Vislaus Crunch Fusion topping to the mix, the calorie count for their cereal becomes higher than that for Kashi.
http://www.visalus.com/pdf/products/vicrunch/vicrunch_factsheet.pdf
https://www.kashi.com/our-foods/cold-cereal/kashi-golean-crunch-cereal
Vi Crunch is also the inferior option with respect to fiber — only 5 g compared with 8 g for Kashi.
The amounts of other ingredients seem similar between the two cereals; Visalus has slightly lower amounts of sugar and salt which leads me to believe that it probably tastes like sawdust and is next to inedible without the flavor topping, which would also push the already inflated price far beyond that of Kashi.
To me, this looks like just another example of silly overpriced, overhyped MLM crap. If I’m not mistaken, the product is not even available to the general public yet, and judging by this flyer, which admonishes people to become “cereal entrepreneurs” (ROFL!!!), the cereal is being aimed at distributors not retail customers.
http://visalus.com/pdf/visalus_vicrunch_flyer.pdf
The submoronic marketing minds at Vialus actually had the nerve to claim in a press release that their idiotic cereal is “transformational” — I kid you not!
http://www.free-press-release.com/news-vi-crunch-transformational-cereal-hits-the-breakfast-market-1374374395.html
I did some comparative shopping for Kashi Go Lean and found it at Wal-Mart selling at $2.88 for a 13.1 ounce box.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/21208469?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227000000000&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=19880599990&veh=sem
I went looking for the price on Vi-Crunch and was flabbergasted to find that it sells for $49.99 per unit (a unit contains 14 servings).
http://sampletheshakes.com/product/vi-crunch-14-servings/
The serving size in grams listed on the package labels is 53 g for Kashi versus 45 g for Vi Crunch. Thus, the total weight per package would be roughly 630 g (equivalent to 22.2 ounces) for Vi Crunch (14 servings multiplied by 45 g per serving) versus 371.4 g for a box of Kashi Go Lean (13.1 ounces converted to grams at 28.3495 g/ounce).
Therefore, the cost per gram of Kashi is less than a penny (about eight-tenths of a cent) and the cost per gram of Vi Crunch is about 7.8 cents. Per ounce, that works out to 23 cents for Kashi and $2.25 for Vi Crunch. Per serving, we’re looking at $3.57 for Vi Crunch and 43 cents for Kashi
Bear in mind that the prices for Vi Crunch in my calculations do not include postage, nor do they include FLAVOR! — i.e., the Vi Crunch topping costs an additional $11 for 7 servings, so tack on another $1.57 per serving to the cost of Vi-Crunch and you arrive at a whopping $5.14 for a single serving of Vi Crunch with topping (with postage that’s probably pushing 6 bucks).
http://sampletheshakes.com/product/fusions-chocolate-macadamia-granola-7-servings/
I ask you, who in their right mind would spend 6 bucks for a bowl of freaking cereal? At that price, I would expect it to be dusted with powdered albino rhino horn.
Epic, epic F-ing fail, yet again. Who was the clown who came up with this idea? Someone should go over to Visalus HQ and push his head into a wall.
Looks like I’ll have to add a section on Vi-Crunch.
I should mention that Trader Joe’s have some cereal (I think it may be store brand) that competes pretty well with Kashi GoLean at cheaper prices. It’s just another option for those cereal lovers out there.
I suddenly realized that Vi Crunch must have been inspired by “Flakes O Corn” from the brilliant mockumentary “Believe” (see 00:28) and I started laughing my ass off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgWNNJSlrx8
The script just never changes with these stupid MLMs; they just keep recycling the same dishonest lame-brained ideas over and over again.
Okay, I wrote up a second on Vi Crunch cereal: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/visalus-scam/#Vi-Crunch
Vogel, I don’t know if you looked further down the factsheet that you linked to: http://www.visalus.com/pdf/products/vicrunch/vicrunch_factsheet.pdf, but there’s an interesting comparison trying to make a case for Vi Crunch being economical if you scroll down. They do the same dishonest things like compare it to hot meals at McDonalds and Starbucks taking on high margin restaurant items like coffee and orange juice.
So on one hand you have a restaurant vs. a non-restaurant service, hot meal vs. non-hot meal, a drink vs. something that doesn’t include a drink, sides (hash browns) vs. something that doesn’t include a side, and to top it off the Vi Crunch has to add in “plus the cost of milk.” They go into a full competitor comparison leaving out something logical like GoLean Crunch and focusing on restaurants and other overpriced MLM cereals and something from Vigilant Eats (whoever they are) that is gluten-free, certified organic, and vegan, which are three things that I don’t see on Vi Crunch.
I had a buddy who was very into the “Vi Life” for about six months then went silent. Just recently he’s been talking about SoZo Coffee. I know this is a Visalus discussion but I was curious if anyone has heard much on this? It is clearly an MLM complete with Forbes Entrapranuer of the year awards by “management” to support its validity as a business.
I searched Sozo scam and a few variations of those words but found the same “article” over and over. Is there some MLM guy out there posting the same garbage on different sites just so lazy people not willing to do the research will feel vindicated prior to signing up for these things?
Yes, Mike typically some MLM guy will try to write some kind of article proposing the fake question of whether the product is a scam, then determine that it isn’t (via a plethora of flawed logic) and then pitch a way that you can join under him.
It’s kind of like email spam. The idea is to flood the market, hopefully get 10,000 people to see it and 5 people dumb enough to act on it.
Wow, thanks for the quick reply! That’s exactly what happened. It was the exact same thing over and over at each site. They also spoke in generalities implying why they were so great without ever actually stating any any facts or releasing any financial statements. I know whenever I read up on a business to invest in I love generalities, they’re so much more meaningful then a balance sheet or income statement. .
I know MLM isn’t your main focus but I love to read you ripping them apart one fact at a time. I was going to see if you could do a write up on SoZo but it dawned on me that my friend didn’t get out if the “ViLife” because I sent him this article. He got out to do another stupid MLM…I am starting to think it will take a substantial monetary loss for him to wake up…
Keep up the good work sir!
I may look into SoZo, but there are thousands and having looked at 50, they seem to all copy from the same set of scammy blueprints. If your friend didn’t learn his lesson in ViSalus, he probably won’t in SoZo. Good idea trying to keep him honest with profits and losses, easier said than done, I think.
Hah! I completely missed that hysterical comparison table. The comparator products include another overpriced idiotic MLM cereal brand (Melaleuca), oatmeal with blueberries from either Starbucks or Jamba Juice, and Vigilant Eats (a product that no one has ever heard of), instead of something that’s relevant and an obviously superior value like Kashi Go Lean. Price aside (I didn’t bother checking), Vigilant Eats is all organic and comes in single-serving containers with a spoon and dehydrated milk (just add water). Vi-Crunch is non-organic and comes in a 14-serving sack, so have fun running out the door in the morning with that and a carton of milk in your briefcase. Convenient single serving containers always command a premium price over buying in greater bulk. The products from SBUX and Jamba Juice offer incomparable convenience; they can be picked up without advanced planning at convenient locations in mere minutes on the way to work in the morning; much better than sitting on the front stoop waiting for a VI(diot)-Crunch cereal delivery to arrive.
They purposely chose the worst and/or most misleading products for their stacked-deck comparison, instead of obvious, well-known, value-minded retail brands.
This Visalus train wreck is like bad performance art…but I find it hard to look way…it’s just too fascinatingly horribly laughably awful.
Ah ha! I just pondered one more thing. A 13.1 ounce box of Kashi contains roughly 7 servings (53 g or 1.87 ounces per serving) whereas the Vi-Crap unit size is twice as big — 14 servings (45 g or 1.59 ounces per serving).
I rarely buy dry boxed cereal anymore but when I did, the last bowl or two would always taste stale. When it got close to the end I’d taste a few pieces and inevitably end up throwing out the last quarter of a box. It was especially bad with ‘healthy’ cereal, lacking the usual preservatives and taste/texture enhancers. I would imagine that a lot of consumers have faced that scenario. After all who wants to eat the same cereal every single day, which is pretty much what you have to do to avoid having that last bowlful going stale.
I know for certain that I would never have been able to finish a double-sized 14-serving box like the Vi-Crap on my own. Half of it would be lost to spoilage. Large unit sizes like this are ideal for families that plow through their provisions quickly, but bulk purchasing is usually rewarded with a substantial discount. Instead, we have Vi-Crap selling for 10 times more than the smaller more unit size.
I suppose one has to double on the dose of that taste-augmenting topping to make up for the taste of the last 8 spoiled bowls of cereal. ROFLMFAO!
It’s one thing to con people into participating in a silly pyramid scheme, but making participation contingent on eating stale overpriced cereal really adds insult to injury.
Ugh. I stay far, far away from anything with “distributors.” Especially if it touts itself as health food/weight loss/miracle substance. There’s a sucker born every minute, but I’m not going to be one of them.
I completely agree with Mike’s comment above. About this time last year, I had 3 friends that were ranting and raving on Facebook about ViSalus and Vi-life. They were throwing “taste parties” every other weekend and inviting everyone to join them. Every day they would joyfully explain to the Facebook world how the product was changing their life and everyone that wasn’t signed up was missing out. It made it sound like they were a part of a freaking cult! Two of them even tried to get me to join as a promoter or buy their products. Being a smart consumer, I respectfully declined. I haven’t heard a peep from any of them about ViSalus or Vi-life in about 6 months.
I guess it all goes back to the famous saying “if it’s too good to be true than it probably is.”
Thank you Lazy Man for continuing to expose these dirty scams.
WTF!
Browsing my FB thos morning I saw a lot of hype from Visalians ( sounds extra terrestrisl ) concernig a supposed article form the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) on teh new Vi Crunch.
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130722-904995.html
They can’t eeven read that’s a paid ardvertising by Visalus.
Quote: “The Wall Street Journal news department was not involved in the creation of this content”
And this is right on top in red as apress release.
Ah well! You’re brainwashed or you’re not.
Reason number 9 billion why MLM is a case of dumb and dumber. These people can’t tell it is a stupid press release.
Maybe I should pay to put out a press release declaring ViSalus a scam.
what is funny……the posts on facebook are comparing it to Fruit loops and capt crunch
I think the Fruit Loops supporting ViSalus should have their business Captain Crunched. (It was just too easy, I couldn’t resist.)
CNBC had this to say about Visalus on Market Insider Aug. 2012:
“As with any multi-level marketer, ViSalus appears to have a hard time hanging onto distributors. The company doesn’t disclose its distributor failure or turnover rate, but it does acknowledge in its prospectus that its “marketing system depends upon the successful recruitment, retention and motivation of a large number of individual promoters to offset frequent turnover.” (Emphasis mine.)” http://www.cnbc.com/id/48764222
Five months later, Jan. 28th 2013, another Direct Selling Company called Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing was shut down by the FTC and several Attorney Generals for operating as an alleged pyramid scheme. FHTM has products and services, but that did not stop the regulators from shutting them down for good, once they received enough complaints that prompted an investigation to come to their conclusion.
Watch the press conference on youtube with the Kentucky A.G. and FTC financial expert exposing what they uncovered about FHTM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBY9UXBbtWc
Pay special attention to the FTC financial expert when he says this about FHTM: “The whole plan is setup so that 96% must lose money to keep the whole enterprise functioning.”
CNBC notated that the “marketing system depends upon the successful recruitment to offset frequent turnover” I think the FTC financial expert would agree Visalus is a pyramid scheme if they did their investigation.
It’s all about recruiting! The product is a cover for their operation.
MLM works on warm-market recruiting, friends and family. Friends and family are also the very ones that will not complain they was mislead or scammed to their State Attorney General or the FTC. As long as no one files a complaint, then many others will fall victim to the scam by someone they know.
North Carolina A.G. receive a little over a dozen complaints on FHTM, then other A.G.’s got involved which then involved the FTC.
Yep Dotel, I hope I covered the CNBC information in the article. I also covered the FHTM stuff. For more on that see: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/fortune-hi-tech-marketing-scam-halted-by-the-ftc/
Wow. The “cereal entrepreneurs” are at it in full force. This YouTube clip is ridiculous! It’s from the cult powwow in Miami a few weeks ago: http://youtu.be/GqbDW2uMAj4 This is disturbing…. Nick shows the minions how to flog the cereal garbage
I’ve also observed another FB rant from Tara Wilson (she has moronically commented on this page above) who rips apart obese people and their stupidity for not wanting to purchase her processed chemicals for food. Several people have commented on how rude and judgmental she is. She deleted several posts that explained why she is offensive…..how does this help sell a product?! What horrible character these people have! Will this pyramid scheme just implode already?!
Well I winder how they will spin this…….
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/blyth-inc-reports-2nd-quarter-2013-sales-and-earnings-218076951.html
Net sales for the three months ended June 30, 2013 decreased approximately 32% to $211.7 million from $309.5 million for the comparable prior year period, primarily due to lower sales at ViSalus and, to a lesser extent, at PartyLite, while Miles Kimball reported a sales improvement.
In the Health & Wellness segment, consisting of ViSalus, second quarter net sales decreased 47% to $101.5 million versus $190.4 million for the same period last year, largely reflecting the effects of reductions in Promoter counts in North America. At the end of the second quarter, qualified independent North American Promoters totaled more than 57,000 versus more than 114,000 Promoters at the end of the prior year’s second quarter. International Promoters totaled nearly 4,000, reflecting the entry into the U.K. in April. Health & Wellness second quarter segment operating profit was $2.8 million this year versus $18.6 million last year. Excluding the EIP charge of $9.6 million last year, and allocated corporate expenses of $2.4 million this year and $3.2 million last year, second quarter operating profit for ViSalus was $5.2 million this year versus $31.4 million in the second quarter of 2012. The decrease in ViSalus’s operating profit was due primarily to the sales reduction, the significant increase in infrastructure put in place in 2012 to support the international expansion in Europe, and, to a lesser extent, the initiation of a new management equity plan”
More tidbits……..
TROY, Mich, Aug. 2, 2013 PRNewswire/ — ViSalus, known for its mission of helping people transform their health and fitness through the Body By Vi™ 90-Day Challenge, announced second quarter 2013 sales of $101.5 million, a 3% sequential decrease from first quarter 2013 sales of $104.3 million. Prior year second quarter sales were $190.4 million. ViSalus had over 57,000 qualified independent promoters in North America at the end of the second quarter compared to over 70,000 promoters at the end of the first quarter. The Company also has nearly 4,000 qualified promoters internationally. Prior year second quarter ending promoter count was over 114,000.
Operating Profit – Health & Wellness Segment
Operating profit for ViSalus decreased to $2.8 million for the three months ended June 30, 2013 from $18.6 million for the comparable prior year period. This decrease was primarily due to ViSalus’s lower sales and additional expenses for increased infrastructure and international expansion in Europe. This was partially offset by reduced commission expenses due to lower sales and prior year’s equity incentive charges of $9.6 million. Corporate expenses charged to ViSalus were $2.4 million for the three months ended June 30, 2013 and $3.2 million for the comparable prior year period.
Operating profit for ViSalus decreased to $7.0 million for the six months ended June 30, 2013 from $37.3 million for the comparable prior year period. This decrease was primarily due to ViSalus’s lower sales and additional expenses for increased infrastructure and personnel to support their North American business and international expansion in Europe. This was partially offset by reduced commission expenses due to lower sales and prior year’s equity incentive charges of $12.6 million. Corporate expenses charged to ViSalus were $4.7 million for the six months ended June 30, 2013 and $6.5 million for the comparable prior year period.
Stock is down 22% this morning……ouch.
Thanks for the news, Innocent Bystander. To answer your question on how the Vi-Cult will spin this, they are taking the focus off themselves by emphasizing Weight Watchers’s unfavorable news…. “Weight Watchers profit down 16%, CEO resigns, and stock hits a 52 week low. The company states the reason for the drop is the growing competition. Hmmmm I wonder who that might be?” and it’s usually followed by their obligatory Visalus “BOOM!”
Unless I got it all wrong ( in which case anyone can clarify for me ) The VCRUNCH ( your $$ bag ) already has the shake added to it; and distributors can only buy it as an add-on to their autoship. So distributors now have double shakes. Where does this make sense? Let’s see how long they will surf on this one!
Saddest thing about this is that I can’t get the time back I spent reading all this crap.
Bottom line: I loved life before Vi. I sell Vi. And I still love life. I’ve lost 30lbs on Vi and so has my mother and my brother at 15 and 22lbs respectively. What’s the value of that? Give me a “life cost” on that and then we can talk.
And I have fun doing it. It’s like my own lemonade stand. And I do it for the right reasons. Whether or not anyone believes it’s a scam, I can assure you it’s not a scam coming from my mouth. God bless everyone.
Have a great weekend!
What’s sadder is that you spent more time complaining about it.
Sorry that you didn’t find it compelling that the FTC guidelines says the founder and top earner of your company is running an illegal pyramid scheme. People who care about other people would find that interesting.
Bottom line: I loved life before Vi. I don’t sell Vi and I still love life. All that and there was need to defraud others. You can lose pounds on diets that are much better for you. The “life cost” of losing your friends (as we’ve found from multiple accounts here) when you can make healthier choices seems to be too high.
Sure you can lie and say it’s not scam (hence not coming from your mouth). It doesn’t make it true.
I updated the article with a more information from the ViSalus press release on how ViSalus is imploding. Thanks for continuing to comment and keeping me informed about what’s going on at ViSalus.
another read…….
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/08/02/why-blyth-shares-plunged-today.aspx
Why Blyth Shares Plunged Today
Although we don’t believe in timing the market or panicking over market movements, we do like to keep an eye on big changes — just in case they’re material to our investing thesis.
What: Shares of direct-to-consumer marketing company Blyth (NYSE: BTH ) dropped as much as 23% today after the company reported earnings.
So what: Revenue plunged 32% in the second quarter to $211.7 million and the company lost $3.2 million, or $0.20 per share. To make matters worse, management lowered full-year earnings guidance to $0.75 to $0.90 from a previous range of $1.30 to $1.45.
Now what: The lowered full-year guidance tells you all you need to know about where Blyth’s business is headed right now. The ViSalus business is really struggling and there doesn’t appear to be a turnaround in sight. I’d stay away from this stock given the earnings trajectory right now.
How can you know the legitimacy of the company unless you have tried it out for yourself? I have a friend in Visalus who makes $4,000 a month. She became eligible for her BMW within 25 days of signing up. She chose not to go for it for 2 months to make sure her sales didn’t drop. Her sales increased by $2000 in 2 months. It is true that you are stuck with the car, but it is false that promoters will end up losing over half their team. Also, she has gone from 210 lbs to 135 lbs of nothing but lean muscle.
Have you used the product for yourself? DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW SOMEONE WHO SELLS IT? Btw, Visalus offers money back guaranteed up to $450 within 30 days for any unopened product. There is no terms on the refund. If you are not satisfied, you can request a refund regardless of weight loss. Read the terms and conditions for signing up. I have been doing a LOT of research on this product because I am signing up as a promoter and I believe in the product. I fully believe in the financial opportunity at hand. How about interviewing someone who has had success in the company? How about writing an article that shows the pros and cons VS cons of a a handful of skeptical critics?
Tell me a little more about the former distributor you interviewed. It is impossible that she would have 900 customers and only 10 getting their product for free. If, by extremely slight chance that were true, that would be because her customers didn’t care to have others sign up with them. Either you’re lying or she is lying.
You stated “The distributors themselves have to buy $125 worth of the product per month unless they sell $200 worth of product per month (cue the unnecessarily complex compensation plan intended to confuse the average distributor) or else they sacrifice their commission.” That couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s a complete lie. The only necessary purchase is the one you make to start the business. $49, $499 or $999 depending on which kit you buy. After that you have everything you need, including your own personal product for consumption. You will continue to buy your own product until you have found 3 people to sign up with the same product as you or with a product of higher value. In order to get your product free, you must maintain 3 people every month. After that, you are only paying shipping. There is a $3 processing fee and an annual $20 fee for using their website portal to process payments for your customers. That’s it. There is no minimum purchase or sales required to be apart least your commission be taken away. There is a required sales in order to reach the next rank. Even if you miss the mark, your commissions are not touched.
The bonus checks are real. I know a lady who received a $25,000 bonus. I also know one who got a $5,000 bonus.
So what if it is a pyramid? That doesn’t mean it’s a scam and just because YOU say it isn’t definitely doesn’t mean it is.
Jennifer, I don’t know how to try a company myself. The FTC Guidelines that I’ve pointed do not require one try the company to determine if it is legitimate. In fact the FTC shut down Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing several months ago and it was reselling services that millions have tried like Sprint and Dish.
From ViSalus’ own press releases they’ve gone from 114,000 distributors to 57,000 in the last year. I can’t say that every distributor has lost half their team, but the number of people in total is half of what it is. Perhaps your friend exists and was successful. That just makes even less likely that someone else will be. When the company is failing to that level, not many people can be successful. I doubt the legitimacy of your story.
I haven’t tried the product myself. Asking it sounds legit, but it is really part of the scam. I’ve addressed this here: Health MLM Mind Scam: Just Try Our “Product X”! and MLM Mind Game: Real Life Experience vs. External Perspective. Just remember, you haven’t tried my weight-loss toast either. If I tell you the ingredients, you could probably make an informed decision without trying it.
I’ve seen the stuff about the refund. There are many, many restrictions on it. It is like getting a mail-in rebate, but a hundred times more difficult. The window of application is very narrow. The paperwork is very precise. When I last tried to find the paperwork, I couldn’t.
If you’ve been doing a lot of research, you’d know that I didn’t interview anyone. I suggest you read the comments here. I believe you are referring to comments from people who have replied to the article that I’ve since highlighted in the article itself. If you click on the link introducing the person, you’ll see the whole comment in its raw form. I can’t say whether or not commenters are lying (you could be about the friend with the BMW for all we know), but Joy went into specifics that made me believe it was an accurate account.
Top ViSalus distributor Tara Wilson has commented here as well. She didn’t have much to add except for broken logic that’s true of all MLMs including ones shut down like Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing. Then she ran away without actually successfully disputing any point in the article.
Of course the bonus checks are real. So are the $499 kits and $125 that many people are paying into the system. It’s like saying that the lottery really pays its winners too. ViSalus isn’t in the business of giving away money. The money comes from people who are buying overpriced products (see $5+ bowls of cereal) and business kits.
I’m not sure where you get that I’ve lied with my statement about the personal value (PV) points required to earn a commission. I took it straight from the ViSalus compensation plan. See the top of page 4, “In order to earn income with ViSalus you must remain Active. You do this by maintaining $125 Personal Qualification Volume (PQV) in Auto-Ship Sales or $200 PQV in Retail Sales per month.” I take great pains to present accurate information. Don’t give me this find 3 people crap, tell me very specifically how I misinterpreted that line of the ViSalus Compensation plan enough to make it a “complete lie.”
I love the part where you say, “You will continue to buy your own product until you have found 3 people to sign up with the same product as you…” It is almost a straight quote from the FBI’s page on pyramid schemes, “At the heart of each pyramid scheme is typically a representation that new participants can recoup their original investments by inducing two or more prospects to make the same investment. Promoters fail to tell prospective participants that this is mathematically impossible for everyone to do, since some participants drop out, while others recoup their original investments and then drop out.”
So what if it is a pyramid? As the FTC says, “Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. If the money you make is based on your sales to the public, it may be a legitimate multilevel marketing plan. If the money you make is based on the number of people you recruit and your sales to them, it’s not. It’s a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money.” It isn’t “ME” who is saying it. It is the FTC.
I stopped reading after … ” she has gone from 210 lbs to 135 lbs of nothing but lean muscle.”…
If you are going to sell a weight loss product please educate yourself on fitness and nutrition. There is NO SUCH THING as lean muscle. You do resistance training to preserve muscle while losing weight.
Anybody has an up-date has where France now stands with Visalus.
Earlier in spring I noticed an all hype such as:
”Go Go Go… France is now opened.”
Numbers won’t add up for Blyth, Visalus needs to replace 57000 distributors presuming actual distributors don’t leave ship ( I doubt ) I don’t believe it to happen unless they open other countries, sales of Vi Crunch, after the momemtum spike should drop. Then the end starts.
Ackman should have shorted Blyth instead of Herbalife.
Both Blyth and Visalus better have a rabbit out of the hat.
Have a nice day
I don’t know where France is, but this is the classic pop and drop that Ackman detailed in his Herbalife presentation. Vi Crunch seems to be a step to squeeze more money from existing distributors, much like how Jusuru and LifeVantage are adding pet products.
You are right that ViSalus would have been a better short. He’s still got time to short LifeVantage, though it’s a smaller fish. I’ve got all the information he needs to bankrupt them. The FTC and FDA wouldn’t be as afraid to join in because it’s not like they are 5-6 billion dollar company.
You want to see a scam. Look at the company you compared the ViSalus cereal to, Kashi. They scammed consumers for billions by saying their product was natural. It’s full of crap. I am not a ViSalus distributor but I can’t stand when people like you with false motives who get paid by advertisers, don’t do their own research. It just shows how dumb people on the internet really are to believe the opinions that are posted.
http://www.topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/1344-kashi-false-advertising-class-action-lawsuit#
Amy Holmwood, you stand on very weak ground complaining about Kashi’s advertising while you promote Protandim on your website. Nothing that Kashi has done is against the FDA laws like LifeVantage has done with Protandim.
Furthermore, I couldn’t find that Kashi was guilty of anything. In fact, it seems like the judge trimmed down the complaint. I admit that it is weird that I couldn’t find an update since then, nearly a year ago. Clearly, it’s not a pressing matter for the courts.
I’m not paid by any advertisers of any food or supplement products. I simply suggested Kashi because it had a comparable nutritional label. I spent 10 minutes trying to find the ingredients on Vi-Crunch and ViSalus didn’t make them readily available. I highly doubt that they are any more “all-natural” and bet it is just as much “full of crap” like their shakes which use engineered fiber additive.
Lastly, the claim “all-natural” is meaningless, because everything comes from nature. As Wikipedia points out, “all-natural foods are widely used terms in food labeling and marketing with a variety of definitions, most of which are vague… the lack of standards in most jurisdictions means that the term assures nothing… In other [countries], such as the United States, it has no meaning…. Fundamentally, almost all foodstuffs are derived from the natural products of plants and animals; therefore, any definition of ‘natural food’ results in an arbitrary exclusion or inclusion of food ingredients; likewise, since almost all foods are processed in some way, either mechanically, chemically, or by temperature, it is difficult to define which types of food processing are ‘natural’.”
So there’s really nothing wrong here. On the other hand, the Chief Science Officer of LifeVantage claims that Protandim prevents cancer in one breath and then says that they make no claims about it preventing disease in the next. That’s wrong and it is illegal.
Scam for scam; I rather be scammed for 10$ than 49$
Good point Ernest. While we are at it, let’s not let ViSalus off the false advertising hook either. I highlighted their false advertising in the article. It’s a lot more blatant when a whole commercial is put around it, than including a vague meaning term on a box.
Lazy Man,
You spent 10 minutes trying to find nutrition info on Vi-crunch and couldn’t? Well, here is the link for it. I spent less than 1 minute before finding it and I didn’t even know where it was located, except the visalus site.
http://visalus.com/pdf/products/vicrunch/vicrunch_factsheet.pdf
In case the pdf link doesn’t work, here is the link to the cereal. Scroll down and click “fact sheet”. The nutrition label in on page 8. Yeah, you’re welcome.
http://visalus.com/products/vi-crunch#.UgQNwW13vbo
I wasn’t lying to you about my friend, but it doesn’t even matter. I’m not going to waste as much time trying to prove myself as you do trying to prove these companies wrong. Either you get paid for all of this, or you’ve been hurt my an MLM company in the past. No one in their right mind would actually spend as much time as you doing all this research when it essentially doesn’t matter. You aren’t changing anyone’s opinion about any of these companies. You and all of your “fans” are so immature to be rude to anyone who opposes you. If someone disagrees with you, then they might as well chop off their own head.
Your free to say anything you want on your own blog, but for those who saddle the fence about these companies, you aren’t going to earn their respect because you are rude and condescending.
To the guy who said LEAN MUSCLE doesn’t exist, you’re wrong.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/84166-gain-lean-muscle-lose/
Jennifer,
I did a Google search for ViSalus Vi-Crunch ingredients and came across this marketing FAQ on their site. Nothing helpful there. Second link was a PDF (probably the one that linked too that was taking far too long on my software engineering capable super-laptop
). I jumped to the third result this useless page: http://visalus.com/products/challenge-kits. Another website that you’d think would be helpful was: http://visalusingredients.com/, but that was a dead-end. After those failures I went to Google images to see if the company or any distributor put up a product image that would have the ingredients. Nope, nothing there either. ViSalus shouldn’t hide the information in document that requires an external viewer.
I’m not getting paid for all this (except for advertising that I have from all my articles) and I’ve never been hurt by an MLM company in the past. I simply care about people and hate to see them defrauded into buying $5+ bowls of cereal. Any normal well-adjusted person would feel the same way.
The research does matter and it is changing people’s opinions. It might not change those who are already brainwashed (though we’ve seen a few converts), but I get tons of mail from people who were pitched the company, decided to do some independent research and were amazed about how they were lied too.
I’m very courteous to those who bring logical opposing views or even attempt to. I’m not going to be courteous those who unapologetically try to scam others. Sorry, I have no patience for that.
No I am not wrong.
There is no such thing as “lean” muscle. I actually lift weights. It is a catch phrase that companies use to peddle products.
http://www.fitnessbreakout.com/just-for-fun/what-is-lean-muscle-and-how-do-you-get-it
“This phrase gets thrown around a lot and I don’t particularly like it because quite frankly, there is no such thing. There aren’t two distinct categories of muscle where one is lean and the other is fat. When people say lean muscle, they are referring to having a decent amount of muscle while being lean at the same time. People associate lean muscle with someone like Taylor Lautner. While he does have muscle, his muscle is no leaner than that of a sumo wrestler. The difference is that he is leaner than a sumo wrestler and the reason why his physique is much more impressive than that of the sumo wrestler is that sculpting it goes way beyond just putting on muscle.”
You should try and peddle Visalus in a fitness forum……it is amusing to see them get torn to shreds.
But good luck to you in your upcoming Vi life.
And I do think it is funny you linked that article which says……
“Consume whey protein shakes for extra protein as needed. For fewer than 150 calories a serving, whey protein provides the benefits of excess amino acids, which are essential for speedy muscle recovery.”
So if “lean muscle” did exist you would be better using a homemade Whey shake that is 10 times cheaper than Visalus. Or am I missing something.
I suggest you Google people like Layne Norton,Alan Agaron and Eric Helms if you truly wish to help people in their journey to fitness.
Amy Homewood said: “You want to see a scam. Look at the company you compared the ViSalus cereal to, Kashi.”
It’s a mildly interesting, mostly off-topic tangent about Kashi, but it’s rather obnoxious that you would phrase that charge in such a way as to obfuscate the fact that, first and foremost, Visalus is a scam; it won’t be any less of one just because you point your finger at Kashi, regardless of whether or not your gripe has any validity. Anyhow, I’ll bite; how does this pertain to Visalus? Dazzle me Amy!
Amy said: “They scammed consumers for billions by saying their product was natural. It’s full of crap.”
It’s annoying when you make sweeping accusations like that with no context or supporting details/evidence because it puts the onus on other people to correct the error of omission and do the research that you should have provided. Now that I’ve completed the task that you saddled me with, this claim can be deconstructed piece by piece.
You stated as fact something which has merely been alleged. The District Court has not ruled that Kashi scammed consumers – not for a nickel, let alone for billions. In fact, it looks like a good many of the allegations in the initial complaint were deemed invalid and tossed out by the District Court over a year ago. There appears to be no additional information about the status of the case, so it could have been dropped, settled, or tossed.
http://wlflegalpulse.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/batesv-kashi.pdf
http://www.cspinet.org/new/pdf/kashi.pdf
Regardless, even if the complaint turned out to be valid and the court were to rule that Kashi misleadingly advertised their products as “all natural”, such a ruling would have no bearing on the negative conclusions regarding Visalus, and it wouldn’t negate the fact that Kashi cereal is a perfectly reasonable comparator for Visalus’ VI-diot Crunch cereal. The results of that comparison, which anyone can easily assimilate, show that VI-diot Crunch is an extremely overpriced product that offers no obvious advantages over comparable retail products, which sell for a fraction of the price (poor value being the hallmark feature of MLM products). To hide the fact that VI-diot Crunch is a poor value, Visalus uses horribly misleading nutritional/price comparisons, like comparing a bowl of their cereal with a hot egg, ham, and potatoes breakfast with OJ and coffee at a restaurant for example (see page 9).
http://www.visalus.com/pdf/products/vicrunch/vicrunch_factsheet.pdf
Adding insult to injury, Visalus’ concept of selling their overpriced cereal and overpriced cereal topping as separate products is so dazzlingly stupid it hurts my brain to even think about it. It’s just more useless exploitative shit that the pyramid-scheme overlords are foisting on their sales force of indentured sad-sack zombies. No wonder Visalus is going down the toilet. When companies that come up with such offensively stupid ideas like that eventually crash and burn, we should all breathe a collective sigh of relief.
What annoys me most about Amy’s Kashi red herring is that no matter what Kashi did, it’s a drop in the bucket next to the false claims made by distributors of Visalus/LifeVantage products, and compared with the harm that’s been inflicted on their customers. As Lazyman pointed out, the infractions being committed with Protandim (misleading disease treatment claims) go beyond mere class-actionable issues like the use of potentially misleading buzzwords like “all natural”; they are violations of Federal law – much more serious.
Amy Homewood said: “I am not a ViSalus distributor but I can’t stand when people like you with false motives who get paid by advertisers, don’t do their own research.”
I can’t stand it when people misleadingly say “I am not a Visalus distributor” when they should say “I am a distributor for LifeVantage”, which is another wretched snake-oil MLM scam. Some might argue about which of the two is more wretched, but I’d say it’s LifeVantage hands down because their overpriced shit is being flogged by as a cure for cancer to little old lady pensioners (and their dogs).
The ultimate irony here Amy, is that you are engaging in this misleading finger-pointing despite the fact (a) the product you distribute (Protandim) is so shitty that the company you whore for (LifeVantage) had to issue recall a quarter-million bottles of the product because of pill contamination with metal shards; and (b) LifeVantage is also the subject of a class action lawsuit alleging impropriety with respect to executive compensation.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/enforcement/enforce_rpt-Product-Tabs.cfm?action=select&recall_number=F-0876-2013&w=01162013&lang=eng
http://www.faruqilaw.com/cases/summary/id/806
Furthermore, when you make patently absurd hypocritical accusations like saying that people here “don’t do their research” it makes me cringe with embarrassment for you. Seriously, your head must be stuffed with straw to say such a thing when faced with the reams of research that’s been posted here and the absence of any significant contributions on your part?
Lastly, who are you to try to cast aspersions about who gets paid and by whom? Lazyman has Google AdSense ads – just like millions of other content-providing sites on the internet; it’s a commonplace practice and perfectly reasonable, yet you try to insinuate that it’s somehow sinister. He’s been writing financial articles on varied topics and developing his blog’s readership since long before Visalus or your shitty company appeared on the radar. The ultimate irony is that you try to take the high road while completely glossing over the fact that you get paid (a pittance no doubt) by scumbag pyramid-scheme hustlers who sell fake medicine and worthless “business opportunities” to desperate uneducated people. Not only does you accusation about “false motives” ring hollow, to say the least, it is a depressing reminder to all of us who would love to simply go about our day without having to worry about defending ourselves against the relentless efforts of sleazy dishonest con artists who prance about in sheep’s clothing.
Amy Homewood said: “It just shows how dumb people on the internet really are to believe the opinions that are posted.”
I agree with you to a point. I certainly agree that anyone would be dumb to listen to the opinions of a dishonest halfwit LifeVantage scammer.
Oh for F sake! I have to find out the hard way that Amy, a PRO5 distributor for LIEfVantage, goes out on the road in Bethesda giving recruitment pitches, to rope in new victims, along with her more senior accomplice Marci Steiner, a PRO6 distributor and “holistic animal communicator” who specializes in administering Reiki and applied kinesiology treatments to pets (and of course, separating pet owners form their hard earned money).
http://bigbluecalendar.mhsoftware.com/ViewItem.html?cal_item_id=44068&dtwhen=2456499
http://www.holisticanimalcommunicator.com/Welcome.html
I also noticed that on Amy’s Linkedin resume, she claims, illegally, that Protandim was responsible for “a profound improvement in her health”.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/amy-holmwood/23/738/77a
Ahem…so, Amy…want to go back to talking about your red herring complaint that Kashi might not be “all natural”, and how that compares to selling snakeoil, pyramid schemes, and unfathomably ridiculous pet therapy scams? No wonder you’re trying to distract people by talking about Kashi.
Jennifer said: “Also, she has gone from 210 lbs to 135 lbs of nothing but lean muscle”
Innocent Bystander said: “I stopped reading after … ‘she has gone from 210 lbs to 135 lbs of nothing but lean muscle.’…If you are going to sell a weight loss product please educate yourself on fitness and nutrition. There is NO SUCH THING as lean muscle. You do resistance training to preserve muscle while losing weight.”
Jennifer said: “To the guy who said LEAN MUSCLE doesn’t exist, you’re wrong. http://www.livestrong.com/article/84166-gain-lean-muscle-lose ”
Innocent Bystander said: “No I am not wrong. There is no such thing as ‘lean’ muscle. I actually lift weights. It is a catch phrase that companies use to peddle products…There aren’t two distinct categories of muscle where one is lean and the other is fat. When people say lean muscle, they are referring to having a decent amount of muscle while being lean at the same time.”
I’m glad you didn’t let that issue slide Bystander. I too was struck by Jennifer’s initial use of this erroneous term and not really all that surprised that instead of just admitting the mistake, she doubled down and offered up the link to that silly Livestrong.com article penned by a doofus non-expert (Sky Smith), who simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
As Bystander pointed out, correctly, there is no such thing as “lean muscle”. Muscle is simply muscle; “lean muscle” versus “fatty muscle” is a distinction that does not exist. The erroneous use of “lean muscle” seems to have arisen from people garbling the term “lean body mass” (essentially the mass of non-fat tissue in the body, or roughly the opposite of body fat percentage), which is a scientific term with a very clear and well defined meaning, and merging it with the term “muscle mass” (the amount of muscle in the body).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_body_mass
Hopefully it won’t need to be repeated again – there is no such thing as “lean muscle”. Those who use this erroneous term look incredibly uneducated — JENNIFER!
Now, I’m curious. What are your thoughts on Herbalife? That company have been around for 33 years. It’s an MLM. Please, if you have a blog, link me. I actually LOVE Herbalife and support it 100%. Since you LOOOOVVEEE forcing your opinions on your readers, enlighten me.
Jennifer, I have written about Herbalife a few times http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/herbalife-scam/ http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/this-herbalife-story-is-amazing/ http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/herbalife-and-pyramid-schemes-are-heating-up/. Not sure what you mean by it being around for 33 years. Bernie Madoff’s pyramid scheme was around for 17 and was 10x bigger. Anyway please continue your Herbalife questions on one of those blogs. (Sent from mobile, please excuse formating, spelling, etc.)
Jennifer;
I couldn’t care less about all those get fit/well products.
Eating balanced meals and excercise will do hte job.
Herbalife has been checked in and out. Here some links for you to read if really interested.
A) July 2013 not far ago;
http://pyramidschemealert.org/herbalife-ceo-wants-distributors-to-lobby-to-keep-business-in-the-dark/
B)
http://pyramidschemealert.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/HerbalifePre-WrittenLetter.pdf
Oh and I forgot this one on general losses 99% of distributors incure.
http://pyramidschemealert.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/HerbalifeLeaderData2012.pdf
Go ahead join them.
Wow. Panic has set in about dropping promoter counts…. now the push is to enroll promoters to obtain the “lifetime bonus”….I love the growth curve explanations. what a crock: http://thepowercouple.com/operation-repeat-new-lifetime-challenge-bonus/
What the heck kind of championships is he talking about? Did I miss an MLM Super Bowl or something?
Love the break in the video that says ViSalus Co-Found Nick Sarnicola’s opinions about ViSalus are his own and do not represent ViSalus’.
OMG HP, Sarnicola is such a dolt! That video is ridiculous. He’s talking BS, drawing random shapes on his idiot’s whiteboard, and showing a level of insight into stock price fluctuations that I would expect from a 2nd grader. His central premise seems to be that even stock prices can fluctuate, they can only go up in the long wrong run, which is obviously untrue.
What he’s really trying to do is whitewash his company’s declining fortunes and stop the rats from leaving the sinking ship. It’s a shallow, misleading, and inept presentation that is clearly designed for the sole purpose of coercing Vislaus distributors. They would never let an idiot like Sarnicola deliver a dishonest amateurish presentation like that to the investment community; if he did the stock would plummet faster than a rock. The stock is dropping now because the company is a poorly conceived unsustainable pyramid scheme, and because they try to prop up the collapsing pyramid with boneheaded ideas like $6 bowls of protein cereal.
Protein cereal! Nobody else but Visalus could have come up with an idea that original. Oh wait, scratch that! The only original part was charging 6 bucks a bowl.
http://www.google.com/search?q=protein+cereal&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa
I totally am getting scammed by visalus. The company does not want to refund my money because the package I sent back was “damaged” The guy claims a bag was missing. That’s absurd considering I never opened the package!! It’s in the original tape and all. They are scammers.
Stock closed at $9.89 down from $14.20 when the Q was announced.
To be fair it is up .28 cents in after hour trading.
Wonder how Sarnicola spins this?
Holy free fall. I have it on my watch list and saw that it had hit a 3-year low when it was in the low 10s. Looks like ViSalus is bringing down all of Blyth.
This video is just bloody disgusting — Ashley Sarnicola (nee Riggs) flogging Visalus’ shitty weight loss shakes to pregnant women. Aside from the offensiveness of that scenario, notice that her lips are so collagen-puffed that she looks like The Joker, and she appears to have been so heavily Botoxed that her face can barely express emotion. I feel sorry for that baby; Botox, Juvederm, and Vi-Shakes in utero and then a lifetime with egomaniacal MLM desperados as parents.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWM6TejxeP4
Speaking of egomania, what’s up with these clowns calling themselves “The Power Couple” and producing that painfully embarrassingly bad do-it-yourself faux reality show about MLM – the aptly titled disaster known as “That Pyramid Thing”. Vislaus distributors have been through enough trauma in life; forcing them to watch that garbage (and you know no one else would watch it) is adding insult to injury
http://thepowercouple.com/
http://thepyramidthing.com/
It is getting worse and worse…..Visalus zombies are playing up the kid factor now…..the breakfast cereal is now “back to school breakfast cereal for kids”. Do they have no shame? They are also posting weight loss stories about teenagers drinking that crap. Way to ruin your children’s lives. Idiots.
I saw that back to school angle being played too. How asinine!
Vi-Crap-n-Crunch sells for $6+ a bowl and is only available by mail order, so based on the exorbitant cost and inconvenience, I can’t imagine anyone but distributors buying this stuff. They’re also the only ones that will buy into the silly hype about the product appealing to the parents of school age kids. It is the distributors who this silly story is intended to convince — to keep them believing that will someday become cereal tycoons. It’s equal parts sad and funny.
Another interesting day on the Markets for Blyth……stock is at…………
9.40 -0.49 (-4.95%)
Real-time: 12:29PM EDT
Here is another interesting read I found on Visalus..
http://www.healthylivingheavylifting.com/body-by-vi-scam/
Outstanding article there, Innocent Bystander.
You’d think that the lawsuits from the days of Blyth pulling the ViSalus IPO when it was trading at $46 should sink the rest of the company.
I get a kick out of following this board and some awful Visalus distributors on Facebook and just read this post from one of their top distributors. The article is bragging how their distribution plan spreads the wealth to more people and families, but then includes details like “As we might miss the lower ranked Top Earners we estimated around 1 – 2% of the active promoters are making $5,000 per month or more, the professionals.” How they don’t know the exact number is beyond me. And why would anyone be wowed by a 1% chance to make a lower-middle class temporary salary?
http://www.businessforhome.org/2013/08/visalus-compensation-plan-review-a-fit-for-many/
It looks like Business from Home was paid for that piece. It seems like they are paid for most pieces, just putting out propaganda for the industry.
This is the kind of stuff that makes me sick. It’s a soccer coach pushing Body by Vi on kids and parents: http://www.stxsoccer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=332&start=120.
Holy smokes what a joke some of those comments are…….
“Exactly. What I love about our compensation plan is that more people are winning. Average people like myself, my parents, my best friends have all created six or seven figure incomes. To make an extra couple thousand a month, all you need is a few dozen people with some customers. So awesome.”
Smell the BS.
PS…….
9.31
-0.58 (-5.86%)
Aug 19 – Close
I expect a bounce back soon though even if is their own people buying the stock.
Yep, pencil ViSalus in for a dead cat bounce.
Hey, did you all notice that the pandering Business From Home article stated that “currently 1 out of 4 active promoters gets their product for free every month“?
Reading between the lines, the statement translates to “3 out of 4 active promoters failed to even pay the cost of their required monthly purchases of Vislaus products”.
still no bounce…..I am surprised…..closed at $9.00
I can understand everything you said and it all makes sense. However, Visalus and many other companies are a form of pyramid schemes, however, anyone that works for a living is also part of a pyramid scheme. A pyramid scheme is basically where the people at the top make most of the money and that is what a job is. Vislaus is legitimate company with over priced products that all companies. Heck, the products at Macys are over priced, is Macys any different than thee MLMS ? NO.
Frank,
You seem to have been given false information. Pyramid Schemes are not defined by the people at the top making the most amount of money. They are defined by how the money is made. Specifically pyramid schemes revolve around recruiting others into the scheme. The FBI has good information on the topic: http://www.fbi.gov/scams-safety/fraud/fraud#pyramid. A key quote is: “At the heart of each pyramid scheme is typically a representation that new participants can recoup their original investments by inducing two or more prospects to make the same investment.”
What you described with a job is a hierarchical organization, which is perfectly legal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchical_organization. Notice that Macy’s doesn’t make money by recruiting you to open up new Macy’s. They simply sell you a product. They don’t entice you to make an investment in a business opportunity at all. If you apply for work at a Macy’s you do the job, which is unrelated to recruiting others (unless you are in HR and in that case your salary isn’t dependent on how many people you recruit who pay into the program.)
Macy’s products are priced in line with the industry, even cheaper than say Neiman Marcus. ViSalus’ product prices are not in line with other non-MLM shake companies.
Some very interesting facts here lazyman.
Hard to dispute any of your facts and research. However, all MLMs are scams of some sort. Many people lose but a few win and win big. I guess it is all what the individual makes it out to be. I don’t think anyone gets into these things with the idea of hurting anyone of selling them a product that they don’t believe is worth it. What does anyone really lose by getting involved in one of these. A few hundred bucks? Big deal. You do make it out to be the worlds worst thing ever. I don’t dispute the validity of your claims but is it really that awful. If there are people losing weight and feeling better than good for them. If some people are laughing all the way to the bank then good for them. I find it funny how some people get all worked up about their opposing opinions of a polarizing topic such as this. Most people lose in these things because they don’t know how to win. That’s life and the same can be said for just about every organization in America. Why is this so different? All in all if you got on the train and had success with either weight loss or income the congratulations. But it does appear that the train is coming to a screeching halt very soon.
Apathetic Andy said, “I guess it is all what the individual makes it out to be.”
That’s not entirely true. It helps tremendously to be in early before the opportunity gets saturated. As we found with ViSalus, it reached saturation last year at something like 114,000 distributors and is half that now. With the whole of the organization dropping in half, it clearly doesn’t bode well for an individual to make it out to be anything. To say that person would be swimming upstream would be a major understatement.
Apathetic Andy said, “I don’t think anyone gets into these things with the idea of hurting anyone of selling them a product that they don’t believe is worth it.”
I think you are incorrect there. Many people don’t believe the products are worth it. In fact, USA Today quotes the owner of a popular MLM advocacy site: “The problem so many have is their prices aren’t competitive in the real world.” Even if the people do believe the product is worth it, they are being misinformation from the company to create those false beliefs.
Apathetic Andy said, “What does anyone really lose by getting involved in one of these. A few hundred bucks? Big deal.”
As Jeff mentioned above (it might have been a few pages), his friend has lost $10,000 and many of his friends (because he was brainwashed into being a jerk). That’s not to mention the opportunity cost with the time lost to lose the money and the friends. It may not be the world’s worst thing ever, but that’s setting a pretty silly comparison. It’s like a serial killer saying, “So I killed a dozen people, there are billions more. It’s not like I killed thousands and thousands like 9/11.”
Also since most American can’t afford $1000 emergency expense, a few hundred bucks is a big deal. In addition, these schemes aren’t targeting the people who have the money to afford a few hundred dollars, they are targeting those who are desperate for income. And again, much of it done by defrauding them with misinformation as we saw with Frank who commented just minutes before you.
Apathetic Andy said, “If some people are laughing all the way to the bank then good for them.”
Great you now condone defrauding others out of their money.
Apathetic Andy said, “Most people lose in these things because they don’t know how to win. That’s life and the same can be said for just about every organization in America. Why is this so different?”
It’s called consumer protection, and every civilized country has it, even America. It’s simply wrong to defraud people. Pyramid schemes are illegal. That’s why this is different.
Why would you not want to be on the side of helping to stop fraud and teaching people that the only way to win in this game is simply not to play. What’s wrong with doing a service and helping those people people who have lost in things to win?
Apathetic Andy said, “If some people are laughing all the way to the bank then good for them.”
Great you now condone defrauding others out of their money.
Poor choice of words on my part.
Apathetic Andy said, “I don’t think anyone gets into these things with the idea of hurting anyone of selling them a product that they don’t believe is worth it.”
I think you are incorrect there. Many people don’t believe the products are worth it. In fact, USA Today quotes the owner of a popular MLM advocacy site: “The problem so many have is their prices aren’t competitive in the real world.” Even if the people do believe the product is worth it, they are being misinformation from the company to create those false beliefs.
Extremely unfortunate if this is actually true. Although, aren’t GNC meal replacement shakes about the same cost? Is GNC defrauding people too?
All in all great retort lazyman.
I don’t think ViSalus is close to the same cost as GNC meal replacement. For example, I see 27 ounces of GNC Total Lean at $34 on their site. ViSalus looks to be $49 discounted from $61: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=bl_sr_hpc?_encoding=UTF8&field-brandtextbin=ViSalus&node=3760901. GNC has a buy one get one 50% off deal, so it is effectively $51 for the equivalent for 54 ounces (plus that includes a free tote bag): http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2174905. For 56 ounces of ViSalus’ shake it is $95: http://www.amazon.com/ViSalus-Challenge-Shape-Kit-Mix-Ins/dp/B004D4SW5O/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1377198592&sr=1-2. That’s about double the cost.
I happen to think that GNC is overpriced as well. However, at half price, no illegal pyramid scheme attached, the ability to buy it in a store, GNC has it all over ViSalus in numerous ways.
Actually, since we are talking about facts. If you look at the links you just posted and read the label you will see that the GNC Total Lean is 16 servings/container. At $34 x 1.5 that would be approx. $50 for 32 servings. According to the link you posted for the Visalus shake on Amazon it is $47 for 30 servings. Pretty much the same cost. Forget the weight, because it is irrelevant.
Now, we know that GNC is not an illegal pyramid and that can’t really be disputed. Visalus, yes there is a dispute there but to say that the product is grossly overpriced is innacurate.