Update: One24 has put together a podcast for its distributors in response to this article. I respond to One24’s “The Scam” Podcast. For those considering whether One24 is a scam or not this is a MUST read.]
Ever since I started writing about MLM scams such as Monavie, Nerium, and iJango, I have received lots of email asking my opinion on new MLM scams. In the past couple of days I’ve received a couple of emails about One24:
Love your website, would you review One24 for me. I got sucked into Monavie and love the juice but hate the business and just recently heard about Protandim and am glad to read your comments. Just started with One24 a protein powder/superfood. Not a get rich quick scheme, at least I don’t think so…would just like your opinion.
…
You’re supposed to build your business slowly by recruiting one new member a month but the problem is once a month they have a “Gold Rush” when you can take people off your waiting list and put them in the business and I think a few people have gone too crazy and the company was not ready for the growth. The concept is one member a month for 24 months (One24), then retire. Of course though people want to grow their business too fast and the site keeps crashing. Still a little skeptical about the whole concept, I hope they decide to limit the amount of people allowed in the Gold Rush. I’m just looking for a home based business that is not a scam or where I have to chase family and friends. I do like Monavie but it is so expensive for one bottle of juice. I was on autoship for about $140 a month and I don’t feel right asking anyone for that amount of money with this economy. I’m going to take some time to read more articles on your site, I found it very interesting, thanks!
I got in a conversation with this person and gave her much of the information that will be in this post. I had decided it wasn’t worth writing an article about. If I wrote about every MLM scam that comes across my email inbox, this site would be really boring. Plus, I didn’t start Lazy Man and Money to write about MLM scams – I wrote it to catalog my journey with money.
However, as I like to say, “Sometimes your destiny chooses you.” The very next day, Saturday, I received the following email:
“Hey There, You probably haven’t heard of One24. It’s a brand new company that is allowing people to retire after 24 months. I began in October of 2010 and have been documenting my progress on YouTube. Check it out.”
Why I Believe One24 is a Pyramid Scheme (Using the FTC’s Words)
One of the biggest misconceptions in multi-level marketing is that if there is a product involved it isn’t a pyramid scheme. I truly wish there was a way to get people to understand how false this is. I usually offer a couple of quotes straight from the FTC website:
“Pyramid schemes now come in so many forms that they may be difficult to recognize immediately. However, they all share one overriding characteristic. They promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program, not based on profits from any real investment or real sale of goods to the public. Some schemes may purport to sell a product, but they often simply use the product to hide their pyramid structure.”
“Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. Some are pyramid schemes. It’s best not to get involved in plans where the money you make is based primarily on the number of distributors you recruit and your sales to them, rather than on your sales to people outside the plan who intend to use the products.”
The links to those quotes are here and here respectively.
For those who are not aware, pyramid schemes are illegal in the United States.
Perhaps at this point, you see where I’m going with this. I was shocked at the audacity of this company. They have specifically named their company in such a way as to promote recruitment as a way to retire. It makes me wonder if One24 was their second choice after they realized they couldn’t get the domain PyramidScheme.com. This flies in the face of the FTC’s quotes of “[Pyramid Schemes] promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program.” and, well, just the whole second quote in general.
Of course there’s a far easier reason to explain why I believe this to be a pyramid scheme. The concept of having to recruit 24 more people is simply unsustainable like all pyramid schemes. Let’s start off with a company of 4 founders. They each recruit their 24 people to retire. That leaves 96 (24*4) looking for another 24 people to recruit. Let’s pretend that they each find their 24 people. Now you have some 2304 looking for 24 people. If they find their 24, then you have 55,296 looking for 24 people. If they have the amazing fortune to find their 24, then 1,327,104 people are left looking for their 24. In three more iterations you have 18 billion people – 3 times the population of the earth. As you can see it doesn’t take too many iterations before it reaches saturation. People already involved in pyramid schemes ignore this detail and suggest that there is no such thing as saturation. They ignore not only the math, but also the fact that few people are really looking to become distributors or salespeople for these products. These distributors erroneously claim that it due to lack of effort on the part of the distributors. One of my readers disputed that wonderfully with his article: It’s Not a Matter of Effort, it’s a Mathematical Certainty.
One24’s NatraBurst Product
Since it seems that One24 considers its product, NatraBurst, an afterthought to what appears to be a pyramid scheme from the FTC definition, I thought I would treat it as an afterthought in the article. However, this website is about personal finance and thus it does make sense to evaluate the value of the product. Before I get started, I’m going to entice you to read through by letting you know that I can save you 50% on NatraBurst (hint: look on Ebay). No matter how slice it, that’s a better value than paying the company’s suggested price.
Back to NatraBurst, it turns out that I had someone ask me about the product back in October. Here’s a little of what I found:
The promotional materials claim that each serving of NatraBurst contains the equivalent of 6 servings of fruits and vegetables.
Those who follow MonaVie know that this is a common lie in these MLM programs use. See: Drinking MonaVie is Not Equal to Eating 13 Fruits. In reality, it turns out 4 Ounces of MonaVie is 1 Serving of Fruit. The same is true of NatraBurst – except that it isn’t even a serving a fruit, since it contains no actual fruit or fruit juice.
Most of the seller pages make a mention of a “Protein Blend”, a “Greens Blend”, a “Antioxidant Blend”, and a “Digestive Blend”. Each of these blends has some ingredients that one may recognize such as Tomato/Lycopene, Broccoli, Tumeric, etc. Here’s the catch though: They don’t mention how much of these ingredients is in a serving. I could take water from the Pacific Ocean that would surely contain a blend of all these things. The problem is that unless you know how much you are getting, it’s not worth mentioning at all. What you are left with is a bunch of marketing, which of course makes sense, because it looks like the product is being used to hide the pyramid structure.
Some people have come here to defend the product as a worthwhile product. At $70, I believe the product is much more expensive than similar products. However, if you feel that NatraBurst is a great product, I can save you money. As of May 7, 2011, there appears to be many people selling NatraBurst on Ebay for between $30 and $40 as a Buy It Now price. Now take that $30 savings and invest it towards a reputable retirement plan.
Update: One24’s Finances Reveal it is a Pyramid Scheme
A tipster got me some very credible and detailed information on One24’s finances. I’ve chosen not to publish too much of it to protect individual distributors’ privacy, but here are two notable pieces:
- One24 Sales Data from May 2011 and Feb 2012 shows that One24 sales has shrunk in half during that time. It also shows that sales are almost entirely to distributors meaning two things: 1) One24 isn’t complying with the FTC guidelines and Focusing on Sales to Outside Participants and 2) One24 distributors (or PCs) are leaving the company at much faster rate that One24 can bring them in.
- Secret One24 Commissions Show it is a Pyramid Scheme. We already knew this from the information above, but this give greater detail to the declining One24 business as well as shows that they sell almost zero product to people outside the One24 network.
Any business where you have to recruit people, especially over the phone, is crap. The road to success is advertising which leads to OPT-IN prospects = real people with a need and/or a want who are willing to listen and who are open-minded and receptive, and who CALL YOU FIRST.
You two can talk all day re the failure rate of restaurants. How about mentioning the failure rate of “cold calling” an MLM list of (dubious) leads, people who have been called literally HUNDREDS of times by others just like you. Good luck with that on your way to making a Trump-level income.
Say what you want and do what you want. Everything is not for everybody. Everybody don’t believe what I believe. What works for me may not work for you. So, find what makes you happy and make money, change your mindset, think outside of your box, stop bashing one another.
There is no shortest of money nor opportunities so, do your homework and find a couple of them and leave a legacy of wealth for your family “spiritually and naturally”.
Lovejoy12
Of course not everything is for everyone, but breaking the law with illegal pyramid schemes is for no one. It works for no one. It isn’t important if it makes you happy making money this way, it is illegal and deserves all the bashing it gets until the illegal activity is ceased.
Everyone claims to be an expert .I won’t take advice from someone who hasn’t even successfully done a MLM or have a product to sell.It’s like going to a Doctor who never has performed surgery in His life but He can sit there and tell me How a Surgery is done????.If an MLM is as Illegal as you say it is, they would be shut down left and right .So far I know of none that have been shut down or anyone sent to jail. So how is it that millions of people are in them still? So all these millions of Americans are likend to drug dealersand illegal Arms dealers because they are involved in illegal pyramid scams? If that were the case then America would have the most Illegal jobs on the face of the Earth and they wouldn’t have enough land to build jails to house all those in MLM’s in. America has given the oportunity for eveyone to become rich ,it’s up to those individuals to do the hard work to make it happen. The Internet is full of peoples opinions. Personally I would rather listen to someone who owns a home paid for in cash and a few condos than this site. Because they know what they are talking about.If It’s so illegal then why isn’t He in Jail? or the millions of others??? when they start busting down the doors to these meetings and sending all these people to jail then I will believe what theses MLM’s are doing is Illegal or wrong etc..I bet you think the OCCUPY wallstreet is a good thing too right??lol get off the NET and invent something instead of complaining at those who are busting their butts to make money you socialsit whiner..It’s not up to the Rich to give all you lazies their hard earned money they worked and sacraficed for. Did it work for Russia? Did it work for Cuba?? yet the 99% seem to forget that as they whine and complain they are getting handouts from those who work hard to get what they earned …You fall into that very category with this blog ..Go whine at something real instead of those who work hard and aren’t in Jail for it.
The 99% didnt seem to whine when they were making money though did they?? there aren’t Jobs because they sit around and whine at those who make money and work hard , instead of using that energy to start up something great .All the businesses that started up during the Great Depression are still here today (most)and yet they didnt whine …NO !they were sucessful through hard times.The problem with America and sites like this is those who pick on the sucessful because they are not a sucess themselves instead they should of get off the internet unless they actually use it for commerce ie the whole reason for the WEB (ie the COM in dot COM stands for COMMERCE) and start up businesses themselves .This generation has become very lazy due to spending all their time watching TV and being on Facebook Go be creative like those who made it through harder times everyone has becaome way too dependent on the Government.
conclusion: If MLM’s where as Illegal and bad and scamming as you say then all the founders would be rotting in Jail right now with Bernie Madoff and they are not so quit whining and DON’T WORRY ABOUT HOW AMERICANS SPEND THEIR TIME AND MONEY . IT’S UP TO AMERICANS HOW TO DO THAT, THATS WHY WE’RE A CAPITILIST SOCIETY..DUH! Go start a business then and take zero profit from people we’ll see how long your business lasts. if MLM’ers want to sell a product and charge people extra that is their right as an American because we are in a capitalist society, if you don’t like that ideal move to Cuba where Doctors make as much as Janitors ..People should be paid for their efforts,every business in America makes a profit even MLM’rs !that’s why its good to be an AMERICAN:)
Erin,
It’s pretty rare to see someone make so many nonsensical statements.
You suggest that you wouldn’t take advice about MLM from someone who hasn’t been successful in one. I’m not giving out advice on how to be successful in MLM. If you wanted to learn how to be a pickpocket, it is fair to seek a pickpocket’s advice and training. However, don’t expect a pickpocket to give you truthful advice about the legality of his business.
You seem to confuse illegality with enforcement of legality. You should read this article MLM Scammer: Then Why Hasn’t [My MLM] Been Shut Down by the Authorities?. You know that Bernie Madoff ran his pyramid scheme for 17 years and before the law caught up with them. People lost billions of dollars. To be on the safe side, you should give One24 at least 18 years.
You suggest that MLM were illegal millions of Americans should be in jail. Well it is important to note that not all MLMs are pyramid schemes. The article from the Federal Trade Commission that I reference was very clear on this fact. If you need another source, though the FTC is the government official word on the subject, you should look into the state of Michigan’s Attorney General’s warning on MLM and pyramid schemes.
So you can say that the Internet is full of opinions, but the FTC and state’s attorney generals are considered the law.
You couldn’t have been more about me or this site. I’ve done all the things that you suggested and created a successful business. In fact, the business is so successful that I have time to look into One24 and help consumers avoid a scam to steal their money.
I was very involved with an MLM about 15 years ago. My upline were the highest earners and we had a separate team of people. I became very disillusioned with MLM when I realized my success was all about convincing people how much money they could make. I see people talk about “lazy” people, but the majority of people in your warm market you take advantage of by selling them a pipe dream for your benefit. How many people did you convince to autoship an overpriced product (Monavie) to make money in this MLM? You made money on their order of a product they couldn’t sell.
There are some legitimate MLMs, but for the most part you only make decent money by recruiting others (that fail) or selling overpriced products. One23 is a pyramid scheme as defined by the FTC IMHO and will be shut down at some point; mark my words.
Cajhawk,
Well said. I don’t know who you are specifically referring to with the MonaVie comment. I have never been in MonaVie and a whole website JuiceScam with over 120 articles aimed at educating people about the evils of MonaVie.
We definitely agree that it is an a pyramid scheme as defined by the FTC. If the FTC wasn’t so underfunded it would probably already be shut down.
The quest to make money and greed have life long roots in our society. They will never go away. A simple thought. Instead of always looking for the next great way to make money and who has the next best MLM, why not look at yourself and what you enjoy? It can be as simple as making and selling pies. The point here is that great Companies were started from simple ideas. Ideas that were’nt bought but developed from passion in that idea. The biggest example is Steve Jobs passions and how those developed into Apple. So you may not have the next idea for the next Apple but you just might. Invest in yourself, not in others possible scams. No matter how small or how large, ultimately your ideas and the investment in your entrepreneurial talents is what will bring you the greatest satisfaction.
Wise words, Steve.
I can’t stand mlm companies. whether they say they are or not, they all operate the same. They look for people that are desperate for money, success, etc and tell them if they invest a couple hundred dollars, they can make millions. I wish it was that simple but it’s not. I wish the government would get rid of these hacks and stop wasting peoples hard earned money. Just my two cents
I hear ya, LM. Now it seems I’m dodging a new one that sorta involves the government. It’s companies that will “help” me get government contracts from the gsa for the modest up front fee of only $7500! gsa-greenville points out how hard it is to do this paperwork and guarentees that I’ll get contracts if I pay them and if I don’t get contracts, they will pay me $2500. Oh, the comfort that gives.
I’m not sure what that has to do with One24 John M. Give me some more information.
Lazy Man says:
December 1, 2011 at 10:03 am
Cajhawk,
Well said. I don’t know who you are specifically referring to with the MonaVie comment. I have never been in MonaVie and a whole website JuiceScam with over 120 articles aimed at educating people about the evils of MonaVie.
We definitely agree that it is an a pyramid scheme as defined by the FTC. If the FTC wasn’t so underfunded it would probably already be shut down.
Seriously, if they were not so underfunded??!! You guys must sit around all day coming to the stupidest conclusions based on your limited knowledge of the world around you.
Have any of you actually gone to the FTC site to see who and what they shut down on a regular basis. Just read the headlines on the front page of ftc.org for crap sake.
They just shut down 6 operators in an acai weight loss scam.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2012/01/fakenews.shtm
Obviously the FTC does NOT agree with the heavily biased factinions here on Lazy Man and knows that MV complies with and works under their strict guidelines.
Schmogel,
Regarding the FTC being underfunded… see this article: http://redtape.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2009/03/10/6345777-ftc-fights-freecreditreportcom-with-spoof-ad. They can’t even compete with one private companies advertising budget.
What you failed to mention about the acai weight loss stuff is that the FTC was working on that for 9 months. Here’s where they announced that they were going after those 6 operators: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2011/04/fakenews.shtm.
Now you are claiming that the FTC knows that MonaVie complies with and works under their strict guidelines? Have you searched Google for MonaVie and Cancer?
In any case, this article is about One24, but thanks for strengthening the point about the FTC being underfunded to fight all these companies.
This website is thegreatest find since I discovered C.net! I was considering Protadim and One 24 until I read your posts.
Thanks Lazy man for your time in researching and providing this information!
Greetings Senor Lazy Man. I don’t want to junk up your one24 forum. I would just like to hear your opinion about MLM in general. You def come with your actual factuals, and I would hold in high regard your opinion. Is there another site that you express your viewpoint on mlm?
Thanks Devin.
I have a few sites. The first two are fairly new. The later two are in more detail, but specific to a company.
http://mlmmyth.org/ (general information)
http://www.healthmlmscam.com/ (Health-based MLM information)
http://www.juicescam.com/ (MonaVie)
http://www.protandimscams.com/ (LifeVantage Protandim)
I’m also pretty approachable via email. There’s a contact link near the top of the page.
Hello everyone,
Took me a while to read all the postings and learned a lot of everyone. However these MLM mentioned are selling health products. I’m wondering what about other MLM that is not selling health products? The reason I ask is because my husband has just join this MLM that provides financial services. They are called First Financial Security. Web site can be found at firstfinicialsecirity.com. Can anyone give some input on this company cause I need to tell my husband to stop if its gonna waste my time.
Kia,
Run away from First Financial Security as fast as your legs will take you. No one in their right minds would take financial advice from someone company with potential ties to pyramid schemes (some MLMs are pyramid schemes) instead of Fidelity or Charles Schwab. You don’t want be a salesman competing against them with a company that has been around for 5 years that no one has heard of.
If you want to talk about how much was made after taxes, it doesn’t matter what business your in, it matters how much you made. 300000 working mlm will provide the same “after taxes” as anything else you do to make 300000. All these ridiculous “after taxes” statements show pretty clearly that NO ONE should listen to this guys advice…( as if the name lazy man isn’t enough of a hint) pathetic…
Excuse me lazy man and others bashing something they don’t understand, but you have all stated that the FTC has regulations stating that the validity of their claims must be backed by proof that shows that as you call it a “scheme or scam” actually can and does make its “employees” (or whatever u wanna call them) the money it claims to be able to. Well why has this program not been shut down or at least been held accountable for what you are explaining as fraud? Sounds to me like you have ENORMOUS holes in your logic, as well as your brain.
I am in no way affiliated with any mlm venture; however lazy man, you are Whiney and you do try to push your views on others. You make statements that you have no proof of ( such as how many people are on this thread that work for one24) only a few have said that they do. So where do u get off saying hundreds have been posting to this thread? Given, the ones who have are no better than you but even if there are more than have exclaimed their affiliation with the company, they haven’t given names as to how to contact them, which if u read is an intrical part of that company. “SIGN UP UNDER MY GROUP” is something anyone who wanted to make money off of this post would need to say, or at least give the name of them or their group… Yet another huge hole in your extremely juvenile and flawed logic.
John M,
Your dodging a scam pyramid company? That’s kind of ridiculous… Why not just stay away from it? Are people hounding you to join because they love your opinions of companies like themselves? I think not. Dodging something seems to imply that they are actively “SEEKING YOU OUT”… OMG! IT MUST BE A CONSPIRACY!
Hoytee,
Perhaps you can quote where I made any ridiculous “after taxes” statements. I read the article again and I don’t think I referred to taxes at all. I think maybe you might be referring to “Todd” and “Todd Can’t Read”, neither of whom are me. You’ll notice my comments as they list that they are from Lazy Man.
Excuse me Hoytee, but I’m an expert on MLM. Don’t claim that I don’t understand it. I have articles that describe it in detail and have shown that I know more than 99.9% of distributors including yourself. You ask why the MLM hasn’t been shut down or held accountable. Well, here’s your answer MLM Scammer: Then Why Hasn’t [My MLM] Been Shut Down by the Authorities?.
I don’t push my views on others. People choose to come to my site if they want to learn something. I don’t go picketing One24’s offices or anything. I also don’t focus on my views as I don’t think they are as important as the FTCs views and the illegal and misleading marketing of One24. When I say that someone in this thread works for One24, it is because they have left the URL of their One24 distributor page in the comment. I don’t believe this is the proper forum for marketing a One24 business, so I delete them and make a note that the person is a One24 distributor. That will have to be proof enough for you. However, you can probably do a search of One24 with the person’s name and see if it comes up. I’m hearing that nearly half the people have dropped out of One24, so they may no longer be around. So yes, they had been given their names and how to contact them. I’ve just been moderating that as it isn’t the place for that marketing.
As for John M., he probably has a friend or two who got sucked in and they are harassing him to join. It’s typical MLM. Perhaps you don’t know about it because you claim to not be affiliated with any MLM venture. If you studied MLM more, you’d know that it is the norm.
Hello all,lazy man thank you for sharing your perspective.
Please allow me to understand, is your perspective informed through being an active part of One24 or is it purely from an external perspective?
In the meantime, allow us to share a little of our real life experience with One24. My family use and enjoy the products, and in our real life experience both NatraBurst and NatraBoost offer great health returns for our family.
We have had a 21year MD and Veteran of Health and Nutrition look at the product prior to using it and they only had good things to say.
We also have personal testimonials from friends / users who evaluated their product experience before looking at the One24 business program who too are experiencing health benefits such as lower blood pressure, increased energy and an overall healthier state of well being.
Again its in our real life experience that One24 delivers a quality product consistently within 3-5days of ordering and makes its monthly payments to us like clockwork on the 15th. Each payment is accurate and all payments cash and clear.
Unlike traditional MLM Companies, there are No Joining Fees, No Monthly Fees and the mimimum effort required is to use One Green Ticket a month to share One24 with another.
So we’re really not sure what you mean by One24 being a scam?
We are in month 6 of being an active member in One24 and we are experiencing positive results in our health and financial well being.
We are grateful to learn of your perspective and equally we are grateful to be given an opportunity to share a little of our actual real life experience with you and your readers.
Thank you again and God bless.
Justyn & Amy
One24 Preferred Customers
Justyn,
Did you read the article? What parts of it were left unclear? Was it the parts where One24 is pushing the product as a way to retire in 24 months by signing up one person a month for 24 months? Did you understand that this is mathematically an unsustainable pyramid scheme? Did you understand that such promises that aren’t considered to be the normal experience are illegal according to the FTC’s guidelines of truthful advertising? Did you see the misleading marketing of using ORAC score to compare NaturalBurst to servings of fruit?
When you ask whether my perspective is formed by being an active part of One24 or if it is from an external perspective, can I ask why you care? If someone were say that the ramifications of jumping off a bridge are generally fairly bad involving serious injury, would you ask that person if they have personal experience of jumping off a bridge? No, you would use common sense and evaluate the situation before being a part of it.
Additionally, if someone were to say that robbing a gas station is illegal, would follow up and ask them if they have real life experience or an external perspective of robbing gas stations?
So when the FTC issues specific guidelines that very clearly state the income that is based on recruiting is an illegal pyramid scheme, why do you feel there’s a need to ask if there’s real life experience or if it is an external perspective? Shouldn’t the appropriate action be, “Why yes, it seems like the FTC is quite clear on this matter and this company is illegally marketing a pyramid scheme cashing on people’s dreams of retiring in 24 months?” Why isn’t that your reaction?
You’ll notice that I never stated that the product was unhealthy in any way. I don’t believe it is. You can make a similar product by buying from Amazon for about 1/6th the price. This has been shown in previous posts. So you could take all the same ingredients to the same medical professionals and they’d also only have good things to say… except that you’d save around $600 a year or more. Put another way, I wouldn’t say that an iPhone is a bad product, but that doesn’t mean you are getting a good deal if you spent $2000 on it and pay $300 a month for service. That’s what the NaturaBurst product is.
The money that you make is a small fraction of what the economy loses as a whole for being involved. You can read more about this concept here: The MLM Gas Station and $8/Gallon Gas.
Anyone who has looked at any MLM product has heard the testimonials of such products. They can’t be believed with health products due to the placebo effect. Here’s more on why you can’t trust health-based MLM testimonials. However, if you still think you can believe them, I’m sure there are some MonaVie and Protandim distributors on a similar posts that I have that will sell you the cure cancer and autism. If all you want is testimonials, you can find them in MLM product to cure just about any medical condition. It is worth mentioning that distributors of these products are banned by the FTC’s endorsement guidelines from making these claims unless the company has significant clinical evidence that it is truthful. The sad part is that these people probably don’t even know that they breaking the law.
You are wrong about One24 not having a monthly fee. It’s $65 a month (or whatever NatraBurst costs nowadays) in the form of autoshipped product. This is no different that MonaVie, Protandim, Jurusu, and a pile of MLMs today. The model has moved to require people pay a monthly fee for a vastly overpriced product as an entrance fee for being in the business. This is explained in the article above about the $8 MLM Gas Station.
I understand it is easy for you in the 6 months span to say that you are still getting checks and it is working out for you. I posted some YouTube evidence from a One24 distributor who found that it is right about that point when things start to go downhill. Pyramid schemes can’t be judged in a matter of months. In some cases, like Bernie Madoffs they can go on for years. I don’t expect it to be the case here, because I’ve received word that One24 distributors are nearly half of what they were at their peak. It seems to already be collapsing.
Seeing success in an MLM is not measured in months.
It is measured just like other businesses, by longevity, quality, customer satisfaction and LASTLY profit.
30 years ago, one of the hottest franchises was Chuck E. Cheese. But after customer’s tastes changed and arcades went out of business, they are still in business, but few would look at them as a long term success story.
Contrast that with Apple, who went up, crashed, were on life support (and Microsoft actually helped them stay in business), and finally the crazy runup we have seen today.
I have known 10 to 15 people who have been near the top of their organizations at one time or another. Things ALWAYS happen in MLM, from changing the Comp Plan to raising the criteria for certain promotions.
I follow this blog, because One24 is one of the most egregious pyramid schemes I’ve ever seen. Their only requirement: Buy one Can of Natraburst per month. So I ask you, how many consumers that ARE NOT in One24 are buying the product? The answer is ZERO. That in an of itself determines that this scheme is unlawful.
If you like the product then buy the product: just not from a distributor.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=one24&_sacat=See-All-Categories
Good points BobaFett. They are especially strong coming from someone who believes in MLM.
Hi lazy man,thank you for your time and effort in responding. We appreciate your intention to serve and look out for people.
Please dont take offense by our asking from which place comes your perspective, it was simply a question to seek a direct and timely understanding.
It seems our views of joining fees and monthly fees differ and thats ok. We purchased product for 2months at retail price before taking an interest in the referral income and benefits. And inkind we have customers who are either solely interested in the product or like us started out with the product (mostly to evaluate it)and enjoyed it enough to refer it to others.
The company itself has made no claims to us about financial gains without first asserting clear disclaimers. It has provided some examples of what could happen if certain referral product volumes were achieved.
I acknowledge individuals could well be mis-representing One24 through the varying perspectives that come with ‘grape vine type inconsistencies’ so it would make good sense for One24 to establish a quality framework that enables the regulation of such things.
In our experience of MLM’s we have invested thousands of dollars on upfront fees, monthly fees etc (over and above product costs) and in most cases have recieved very little if any financial benefits. We cannot say the same of One24.
Our good friends who referred us to One24 are 4months ahead of our experience and their real life results are continuing in a positive trend, so with a keen alertness our evidence (to date) points in favor of One24.
Prior to One24 we would normally spend $100+ a month on health supplements and upon positive results openly recommended these products to friends without ever recieving a referral income.
If One24 are breaking FTC laws as youve highlighted why have the FTC not shut One24 down? I imagine there has to be an equivalent of you within the FTC with adequate Federal resources to implement such inquiries and interventions in the name of public well being, right?
As advised we can only share with you our real life experience as it is, openly and honestly.
At no time have sought to make you wrong and nor do we have any interest in doing so. Each person plays a role in life and for you at this time, you are the lazy man – serving in your own unique way.
Like you we are fairly intelligent people and without any upfront “phantom fees” investment and in receipt of a solid wholefood product (in exchange for our $70.00mo) we are at peace with our decision to remain active users of One24 products while referring others to evaluate whether One24 makes sense for them and their family. At the end of the day, One24 makes sense to us and our family.
We are encouraged by your healthy debate and humbly affirm your intention to serve and help others.
In gratitude,
Justyn & Amy, One24 PC.
I am happy to keep
Justyn,
Thanks for being the most courteous MLM distributor I have come across, and I’ve conversed with thousands here.
The reason why I was defensive about the life experience vs. the external experience is because it is often pitched as being important by MLM charlatans like Tim Sales. He’ll ignore the fact that people learn a great deal of things from external observation and instead claim that those who haven’t experienced can’t possibly have valid opinions. This is a ploy to discredit the value of external observation and limit the pool of valid opinions to those who are in MLM, the very people who are financially biased to support MLM. I presume that anyone bringing up the question is going to down that path. If they don’t intend to, I presume they’ve already learned enough to avoid the question realizing that it is irrelevant.
I realize that we differ in our view of join fees and monthly fees, but that is like saying we differ in the opinion of whether a brick wall is there. It’s not really a matter of opinion. The One24 business model is clearly no different than MonaVie’s of getting people dreaming about a business plan and then getting them overpay for product month after month to be a part of that business. If you want to test the theory, do what BobaFett recommended in the previous comment. Buy the product for half price on Ebay and continue to run the business without autoship of expensive product. You’ll save money for yourself and you’ll prove me wrong that One24 isn’t about getting people hooked on autoship of expensive product to participate in the scheme.
Justyn said,
Clear disclaimers are no longer enough for the FTC. They’ve made it clear that financial gains have be subject to normal and “typcical results.” I’m going to refer you to a layman’s version of the FTC’s guidelines: http://consumerist.com/2009/03/ftc-to-require-advertisers-using-testimonials-to-show-typical-results.html. Feel free to read the FTC’s guidelines as well, but the point here is that marketing of the nature of “they sign 6 people and they sign 6 people, etc…” isn’t valid unless the company has already shown it to be the norm. We know that mathematically it isn’t the norm, or else close to everyone in the United States would have been in One24 by now.
So again this is another case where the FTC guidelines are being ignored by One24 itself. This is different than just blaming a few bad distributors.
Justyn said,
It’s not just individuals, as I showed here, the One24 default website template was promoting the “retirement opportunity” on 8/9s of the page, and the product on 1/9th of the page. See this image: http://static.lazymanandmoney.com/images/2011/06/natraBurst-AfterThought.png
This is using the framework designed by One24, not the disributor. The very name One24 is inspired about the “retirement opportunity”, not the product. The marketing on the pages about One24 being worth many servings of fruit was in One24’s podcast as I noted here: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/one24-responds-to-the-scam/. Please don’t make this about grapevine inconsistencies. It is spread directly from the top on down.
(Also, don’t think that grapevine inconsistencies absolves One24 or that more compliance is the answer. The answer is to remove the distribution system that leads to such inconsistencies. Napster and similar file sharing computer services created a system where people could steal media for free. While the individuals were found guilty, the courts have decided that the creators of such systems shared in the guilt. They had to make it 100% secure or cease their distribution method. This is the same thing. If an MLM company can’t police it’s grapevine 100%, it has to cease their distribution method.
Justyn said,
I’m sorry that you were scammed worse before and that this, by comparison seems like a lessor scam. It seems like the guy who had his foot amputated in the past trying to convince someone else to intentionally break their foot. Clearly the amputated foot is worse, but it’s not going to convince me that I should choose to break my foot vs. the alternative of just avoid all foot ailments all-together.
Justyn said,
So they’ve been in 10 months. Can you get a screenshot of their earnings (blacking out any personal information) and present it to us. I’d like to see more than just a positive trend, but the real exponential growth that the One24 videos claim. Let’s put the real life results out there. You’ve been in 6 months, can you do the same with your earnings? As you said, you want to share your own life experience, open and honestly, right?
Justyn said,
Were you buying equivalent supplements? If you want to buy near equivalent supplements on Amazon, you would have spend $10 a month, not $100+. If you buy the exact same supplements on Ebay you’ll still save 25%. When you examine all the people that lose money in the pyramid scheme, it is extremely selfish to talk about what you’ve made. It is better to talk about the whole downline’s profits and losses. I guarantee you, that you’ll all be better off buying the product from Ebay on the discount.
Justyn said,
This is answered in detail here: MLM Scammer: Then Why Hasn’t [My MLM] Been Shut Down by the Authorities?. There’s a lot of arguements there including how Bernie Madoff had his pyramid scheme of billions go for 17 years despite people reporting him to the SEC. As best I can tell there is no equivalent of me within the FTC. My guess is that the Federal resources are stretched too thing with our huge national debt. It seems like you are confusing lack of enforcement with legality, which are two very, very different things. If you know it is illegal, and you certainly should by now, it’s best to stop the illegal activity before law enforcement catches up.
If you decide at the end of the day that NatraBurst makes sense for you and your family, do as BobaFett said and avoid the ugly illegal pyramid scheme aspect. Simply spend $45 or so on Ebay instead of the $70 and enjoy the savings of over $55 of what you used to spend on health supplements. Don’t continue to get scammed into paying $70 for something that you can get for $45 (or less).
If people like the product that is all that matters! If you like something don’t you tell a friend? Well that is all the One24 distributors are doing and if we can make money from that then why not??? I have had some people try the product and they haven’t noticed any difference in how they feel. I personally sleep better and my husband has more energy during the day so what is wrong with that???
Kelly, it doesn’t matter that people are being illegally marketed the product? That doesn’t sound right to me. It doesn’t matter if the scheme is an illegal pyramid scheme? Perhaps you could talk to any of million of people who lost money in Bernie Madoff’s pyramid scheme. Losing money matters to them.
It’s also important to make sure that the product isn’t having a placebo effect on people. Remember that this site is about personal finance and saving people money. That means not paying $70 a month for a placebo effect or even overpaying for a product that you could have cheaper.
If you still want to buy NatraBurst after all that, pick it up on Ebay, save some money, and don’t get involved in a pyramid scheme. It’s a win-win situation.
LM, I am impressed with the lengths you go to to debunk frauds like Todd Hirsh.I am being attacked by a “friend” who is upset with me for not buying into her one24 scheme. She has now moved on to my mom(age 74) in an attempt to sell her natraburst for “her health” and says she does not understand why cher is so negative and pushy when I am only trying to help her mother. I try to reference your site, but she insists natraburst is not an MLM or pyramid scheme and has asked me how I came to believe this. I am not good at defending myself when I am not familiar with verbage/statistics/facts/misinformation, etc. I just know a scam when I see one. Please help, I value your knowledge and need backup, this friend has now offered to send a can to my mom”no charge” to prove how wonderful it is. I need a script or a 3 way conversation with this PC,U & ME! HELP!
What do I say to her to shut her down politely, but firmly.
Cher, I don’t know if I have a solution. Polite seems to go out the door when you feel you are being harassed.
I think you have to just be straight and say something like, “We can continue to be friends, but we are going to have to move on from this.”
There’s a better script, more refined script here: Emergency Handbook: What to Do When a Friend Loves Woo
@Justyn,
There are two things I don’t understand about your posts, first, why are you so determined to be involved in MLM? And, second, why do you think it is necessary to spend money on supplements?
I also wonder what your MD would say if asked whether it would be wiser to spend ~$70 a month per-person on NatraBurst or to use that money on actual healthy food.
Also, you never addressed the idea that you could get the same ingredients for less. Doesn’t that seem like a logical alternative? If it does, then you seem to be agreeing to the idea that spending too much is worth it because later you will get that money back through the business scheme. In that case, you need to ignore the big picture of the overall losses incurred by everyone below you in the pyramid.
You know I really cannot stand articles like this , they offer no indentity and only an assonign opinion of something they know nothing about … Never state any facts only make assumptions …
Let me explain my take on this article first off the product is an excllent product I have been int he wellness industry a very long time and this is a very good product..
Secondly on the Ebay sales , I actually purchased 6 canisters on Ebay to save on cost for sharing the product with others while using my product for myself . Out of the 6 2 cannisters wer fine ,, while the others had been openned and tampered with , Thank God I was aware of what the product was supposedd to look like and smell like .. I had to return 4 of the canster to 3 different people One of which I had a hard time and had to threaten Legal Action to get it straightened out … Also I know some are selling their product at a loss on Ebay as an Advertising to try and meet new people to join thir business … (Nothing wrong with advertising is there)
Also as far as saving money as you claim we would do buying this on Ebay I strongly doubt that even if the product was not tampered with as it was in 4 out of my 6 experiences … Here is why so far me and most of my group have pnly paid for their product for 2 to 4 months for the most part then from there after it is paying for itslef plus a profit ( again is there something wrong with that its called profit Sharing )
I stand with the company on this one just because you do not agree with this industry for whatever reason which is you perogative doesn’t make you opinion correct ..
I love this product and company and I would recommend everyone take a closer look, I happen to know it is working exactly the way I was lead to believe from the start … Everything I was told would happen with my business so far has been reality and I am well pleased with this company …
Just thought I would speak up and take the other side of this arguement for those who want to know the truth from someone in the field making it happen … The business works and it works better than anything I have done so far and the funny part is I Have 15 years of success in another company …
Brian
Brian,
I know plenty about One24. I also offered the facts, not opinion, directly from the FTC’s official guidelines that they were a pyramid scheme. What more do you want?
What makes you say it is an excellent product? This is your opinion and not a fact. You are one to pick on people for not offering facts and giving opinions.
There’s nothing wrong with buying the product on Ebay. Ebay does millions of transactions daily and a vast majority of the time they go smoothly. I know, I’ve sold and bought perhaps over 500 things on Ebay and had difficulties twice. Each time Ebay was able to moderate things and a good resolution was achieved. If you experience more frequent difficulties with buying One24 on Ebay, the problem is the type of distributors that One24 attracts, not Ebay. It’s not Ebay’s fault that a One24 distributor didn’t give you good product.
Remember that Ebay is direct sales, person to person, no different that what MLMs claim to be. Seems to me your odds would be just as bad as getting any other way.
I don’t understand how you don’t get that you would save money by buying on Ebay. Here is an auction for NatraBurst for $40 on Ebay if you use the Buy It Now option. It is $70 from One24. Both come factory sealed. Here’s a seller selling three canisters for $135 ($45 average) with over 1200 transactions and no one ever having a problem. If you have a problem on Ebay, you are probably trusting the wrong people.
@Brian,
“Here is why so far me and most of my group have pnly paid for their product for 2 to 4 months for the most part then from there after it is paying for itslef plus a profit ( again is there something wrong with that its called profit Sharing)”
Q: So if the product is $70, who’s paying for your product? A: Those under you.
Q: What were you actually paying for when you were paying for the “product”? A: The profits of those at the top of the pyramid.
Q: How do you get in a position of actually making a profit? A: Recruit a lot of people who are willing to pay up the pyramid.
Q: Is there any evidence that consuming Natraburst is good for you? A: No.
Final question: How is One24 NOT a pyramid?
Hi lazyman,
Thank you for your continued feedback, its warmly appreciated.
We are at peace with our dialogue to date and would like to wish you well in all you do and are happy to keep you posted on our progress and that of our team in the future.
Please keep up the great work and thank you again for this opportunity to understand your perspective and to be given the equal opportunity to share & express ours too.
We believe your intentions are honorable and that you fulfill an important role in service of others.
With thanks,
Justyn & Amy
Justyn,
Thanks for coming and sharing your thoughts. It is unfortunate that you have chosen to respond to the points I’ve made with “We are at peace with our dialogue to date and would like to wish you well in all you do and are happy to keep you posted on our progress and that of our team in the future.”
You unwillingness to continue the dialogue comes across to anyone reading it as a tacit admission that my points are valid and you are unable to rebut them. To recap some of them:
– The FTC guidelines show that One24 is an illegal pyramid scheme
– One24 itself, in addition to the distributors, violate the FTC’s endorsement guidelines about marketing “typical results.”
– One24 itself, in addition to the distributors, violate the misleading marketing of the product with regard to servings of fruit.
There are probably some others that I can’t remember off the top of my head.
If you continue to hold a perspective about One24 other than the fact that they should be punished to the full extent of the law for the crimes they are clearly committing, I highly recommend you spend less time trying to construct civilized non-responses on blogs, and more time looking in the mirror at your actions.
With thanks,
Lazy Man
Hi Lazyman,
We lead very busy lives and are simply choosing to manage our time effectively, as you may understand any time we give to your blog is time we are taking from somewhere else.
And for the time being we are simply complete with what we wish to share. We have offered to stop by from time to time to provide ‘future progress posts’ for you and your readers.
Anything else as percieved by you is clearly your stuff and something only you can manage.
This does not stop us from wishing you well.
Take care,
Justyn & Amy
Justyn,
We all lead very busy lives. I understand what you mean about spending time on a blog that is taking time from somewhere else. I wish I could have all the hours spent on One24 and other MLM scams back, but as long as people are trying to break the law and scam others out of their hard earned cash, I’m going to do my best to make time to help.
It’s unfortunate that you are willing to do the same, especially considering the vast evidence that you are contributing to the problem.
I’m happy to have you by to share about your “future progress posts”, but find it very strange that you aren’t giving any “current progress posts.” It really doesn’t take too long to get a screenshot and put it up on one of the many image hosting websites or even a Twitter account. You could do it with a smartphone in about 30 seconds.
I guess it is convenient to open up a bunch of issues and then claim you don’t have time rather than admit that you are wrong. If that’s my perception, it’s probably going to be others as well though… at least until you come up with better explanations for continuing to be apart of a company with multiple proven illegal marketing techniques designed to defraud others.
Wow…I have just spent the last couple of hours reading all of the comments on here…maybe not the best use of my time, but I have been absolutely enthralled! I don’t presume to know anything about one24, I simply found a card on a billboard and thought it was odd that it didn’t say what the product was. I am always looking for different ways to network with other small business owners, so figured I would look into what their product was.
I think everyone who has posted on here has had good points, no matter which side they have been on. From what I have seen about one24, I don’t think they are the most legitimate business plan out there, but like all things in the business world, there will be the good and there will be the bad! There can be cons and scams no matter what the business model looks like. So I do believe there are good network marketing companies out there along with the bad.
After running both a traditional business, and a network marketing business, no matter what business you are in it takes hard work, dedication and commitment. And things don’t happen overnight. If you are looking at any company, do your research, be passionate about the product or service, make sure it serves others not take away from them, and treat it like a business.
And one note to Lazy Man…In one of the threads between you and Todd there was something said about a book written by Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki, and that the link only talks about real estate investing and such, and nothing about them supporting network marketing…Just a friendly FYI, they do talk about network marketing in their book, in fact they have a whole chapter devoted to it. It is chapter 27 titled “Why do you recommend network marketing?”. And in fact, I believe that the quote that Todd put on here allegedly from Donald Trump is in fact one made by Robert Kiyosaki in this very chapter.
On page 307 Robert writes, ” I am often asked if network marketing is a pyramid scheme. My reply is that corporations are really pyramid schemes. A corporation has only one person at the top, generally the CEO, and everyone else below.”
Sometimes things get mixed up in translation, but Todd wasn’t too far off the mark.
Kat,
It is clear that there can be scams and cons in any business, but few would say that IBM or McDonalds is a pyramid scheme. The FTC guidelines show us that One24 is. There’s clearly no more good in that there was in Bernie Madoff scamming people out of billions – it is just a smaller scale.
It’s easy to say that any business takes hard work, dedication, commitment, and it doesn’t happen overnight. In other news, the sun is expected to rise tomorrow. It isn’t relevant to the discussion.
I was open that I’ve never read the book by Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki. I pointed to at least one (possibly two) fairly extensive book reviews from media outlets of the book and they didn’t mention MLM. Furthermore the book reviews, again from major mainstream outlets showed how poor the advice in the book was.
Since the comment there, I’ve gone a little further and Exposed Robert Kiyosaki and Multi-Level Marketing. Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich Dad, Poor Dad only got read because someone in MLM spread it through the organization. That article showed that Robert Kiyosaki is willing to lie about MLM because he gains from doing so. I point out may of the lies in that video.
Donald Trump owns a network marketing company. His financial interest lies in getting as many distributors lured into it so that he can autoship them product and pay them less than minimum wage on average. I’ve always said that it is a great business to own an MLM company, as long as you can do it without breaking the law which One24 has a problem with, but it is silly to be a distributor for an MLM company. The distinction is very important. This is why you don’t see Donald Trump spending his time as a distributor for any MLM company. He wants to be the boss of all that labor that actually pays him, via autoship, to market his business.
Robert Kiyosaki is giving the classic answer about pyramid schemes. Unfortunately, the FTC’s guidelines on pyramid schemes make it clear that the nature of the business has to be about recruiting and not product sales. Clearly IBM and McDonalds with a CEO doesn’t qualify. People have real jobs other than recruiting other people. Even if you were to try to compare the sales people from such organizations they don’t make money recruiting other sales people, but actually making sales to others outside of the organization.
Clearly Robert Kiyosaki is includes that part about network marketing not because it is accurate, but so that he can get other network marketing companies to push the book through their down and say, “See! Robert Kiyosaki says corporations are pyramid schemes!”
This is one of the reasons why MLM should be abolished. It starts with one lie at the top and spreads down like a virus defrauding everyone along the way. That’s why for at least a few dozen years, you still hear that MLM is taught at Harvard despite it being a lie. Distributors are paid on sales and recruitment and you can’t recruit people into MLM if you tell the truth.
Lazy Man,
Actually, I agree with you on most of your points…I was simply pointing out a fact about the book, as it seems you like dealing with facts on here. I agree that some network marketing companies like one24 don’t seem to be doing business in the most ethical way, and I would never get involved in a company that focused strictly on recruiting and has the product as an afterthought. Nor would I want to ever be involved with a company that wanted to auto ship me products every month at a higher cost than what I could get it at a normal store. Those kinds of practices should be shut down in my opinion.
However, I do think there are good network marketing companies out there. What about a company that you can buy products for cheaper than you could in a regular store, and not because of recruiting or because of the discount you get as a distributor, but products that you can sell to customers for less than they can buy in a store? Or what about a network marketing company that you can make a substantial income without ever recruiting anyone if you didn’t want to? There are companies like this out there, I know because I am in one now. I don’t recruit, I don’t like recruiting and never have. So I focus on selling, and I make a good commission.
I agree that it is a great business to OWN an MLM, of course. And of course it would be better than being a distributor. That is, if you have the money to invest in building such a company, which most people don’t. The thing I like about network marketing, (with the right company anyway), is that it offers the average person a low cost way of building a business. There is little risk, and potential for great rewards, IF you work the business and treat it like a business, which most don’t. And this was why I threw in the comment about having to work hard at business. People expect to jump into a network marketing company and strike it rich after three months, which is ridiculous!! It is people like this, and companies like one24 that give network marketing a bad name!!
I see your point about Donald and Robert…they are both businessmen after all, so it would make sense that they would see a profit potential there. And believe me, I by no means agree with everything they write about!!
And yes, IBM is a typical business model, so you can’t compare this to network marketing. McDonalds however is a franchise. So aren’t they in this business model “recruiting” new “distributors” (franchise owners) to buy into the business and move the product? And who profits the most in this business model? The owner of the company of course! But that’s not to say the the owner of the individual franchise isn’t making money, they just don’t make as much as the owner of the whole company. I don’t care what business model you look at, the owner of the entire company is always going to make more than anyone else, be it a franchise owner, a distributor, CEO, or employee. So really, you could say that the “structure” of all business models looks like a pyramid…This is the nature of business.
I’m in One24 and folks i can tell you It’s the Real Deal. Lazyman, you really need to join One24 to see it.
David, said like a true scammer who is paid by the people they recruit.
You all are stupid LOL…EVERYTHING is a scam! You worry about MLMs but yet you have no problem buying all of these other BS products and/or services-taking money out of your pockets and making other billionaires richer LOL…who gives a s#*@!
Thanks Lady Gaga. I’m glad you took time out of your busy touring/recording schedule to comment here. If you’ve read this website you’d know it reviews a number of products and services for their value. Most are not BS and provide a value for the purchaser.
One24 is fairly unique in pushing what according to the FTC’s guidelines is an illegal pyramid scheme. No billionaires I know do such a thing (other than Bernie Madoff who is now serving time for it).
Lazyman is right 110% of the time, because he does his research and spends hours in order to supply his site with excellent content.
Lazyman, trying to argue with a MLMer is the hardest thing in the world. They will not listen to reason and are unable to do sufficent research to support any of their claims. 99% listen to what their upline says and thinks it is the way it is.
MLM is a great way for people that hate their life to relieve anxiety. By thinking they will retire in the near futute lets them hold on to hope that one day they will be successful, when in reality, are only holding themselves back more. Most people that are trying to build One24 say things like “I have been with different MLMs for 15 years, but this is by far the best I have ever seen”. Why would anyone want to take advice from someone that has failed at MLMs for 15 years?
Everyone that reads content on this site should take advantage of it and know that it is coming from a excellent source.
Thanks for the support, errr Lazyman Supporter,
I don’t think I’m write 110% of the time. I am human and make mistakes. Regular readers of all my articles, not just the MLM ones, will attest to that. When my mistakes are pointed out, I am the first to own up to them… and that’s something I pride myself on.
I know what you are saying about MLMers. There’s a great article about what to do when a friend loves woo… in this case woo is an MLM company/business. The dream to retire in a couple of years is powerful. It is hard for someone to focus on reality when presented with a logic argument.
I know your not perfect, but let me put it this way. I agree with you 110% of the time. At least on the topic at hand.
Just out of curiosity what is it that you don’t like about One24? There really isn’t any risk, I switched to the NatraBurst from what my Doctor was giving me for about the same money. It is a great product. How is it a bad thing to pay someone who refers someone else to your product. We do it all the time in the Real Estate Industry. At least One24 isn’t pushing you to retail a whole bunch of products every month to get paid like most MLM’s do. So where is the harm in what One24 is doing?
What MLM company do you recommend or do you believe they are all scams?
I believe the FTC and Amway already had that discussion years ago and Amway came out on top.
Bruce Patrick said,
Did you read the article? I thought it was fairly clear about the FTC’s policy on pyramid schemes as well as the misleading marketing claims that the company is making. If you read the comments, you’ll find out quite a few more things.
Bruce Patrick said,
What product was your doctor recommending? Why would you switch away from what your doctor is suggesting for something that a non-doctor is pushing? Doesn’t seem like a smart move?
Bruce Patrick said,
I don’t have a problem for referring others. This is often called affiliate marketing and it is something that you’ll find on this website and others. However, when the business is based on recruiting others who recruit others it is very different about referring a product. To compare to the real estate industry as you did, I have bought several houses and I know dozens of people who have done the same. At no point did the real estate agent ever try to convince me to become a real estate agent. If he had, he wouldn’t have received bonuses related to my sales.
It might be worth your time to review the article above and read what the FTC says about MLMs that focus on recruit others rather than end sales.
Bruce Patrick said,
I haven’t found a good MLM company and I’ve looked at dozens. There might be a good one somewhere, but One24 clearly seems to be an illegal pyramid scheme according to the FTC guidelines. I’m not saying that I’ve looked at every MLM company. My comments in this article apply only to One24.
It is true that Amway came out on top in the FTC fight, but that isn’t necessarily relevant to a discussion of One24. The FTC has put an end to other MLM companies that appear to be pyramid scheme. See Nexgen 3000 for example.
Also in England, their version of the FTC got Amway to pay 150 million dollars in a settlement for fraud: http://pyramidschemealert.org/analysis-amway-accused-of-fraud-pays-150-million-wheres-the-ftc-and-doj/. This is much more recent (a little over a year ago) that the FTC case from 30 years ago (or whenever it was), so it is probably much more relevant.
In any case, it clearly doesn’t seem like it worth the risk.
One24’s supporters are always trying to compare their company to other companies, saying that it is not MLM and is much better. I received an email last week with the following text “One24 in not MLM For example – 10,000 PCs times their $30 a month equals $300,000 in PC payouts. So if 100 people are making $3,000 each, than the entire payment pool is out. So less than 1% can make any real money, unlike MLMs where it is 2-3%” A very good point once I really read into it. The small percentage of people that can make big money in One24 makes it very clear how much it is exactly like a MLM.
I guess my question would be how could One24 be a pyramid scheme when they pay on a straight line comp plan? It’s not a pyramid at all. True in most traditional MLM’s only 2 or 3 percent make all the money. for example, would be in traditional you build two legs and you maintain both legs and what would happen is you put in 30 people and 25 would drop out within three months. (which is excepted amongst most MLM) Not to mention you anyone on other legs you don’t even know better yet get credit for. In one24 anyone that enrolls after you is now under you. Meaning you get credit for everyone that joins after you. So in that way it is unlike many MLM’s but in the end it’s a business just like all other businesses. The lazyman way in business of just sitting back and waiting for you million dollar check to come in the mail just won’t work in any business. (by the way those figures above aren’t even close to the actual figures)
I would suggest that you guys do some more research on the comp plan before you criticize to much more.
One24 has paid out over 50% of it’s monthly income since it’s first month in existence and also pay out other bonuses as well.
One24 says it is a straight-line compensation plan, but it isn’t. It is clear if you watch their video on green tickets that it is an MLM. They specifically do the exercise of, “I you recruit 3 people and they recruit 3 people, and the they recruit 3 people…” Boom, unsustainable recruiting pyramid scheme.
When you read the FTC guidelines an MLM is legal if a majority of the sales are made directly. The fact that one person gets paid just by joining early and not making sales only reinforces the fact it is a pyramid scheme.
Yeah they pay out 50%. You’d think they’d 80% since you are doing all the work and buying all the product. Remember that they are overcharge everyone 500+% for each product sold. If you want to sell my pet rock at $10 a piece, I’ll happily give you $5.
edav6,
“One24 has paid out over 50% of it’s monthly income since it’s first month in existence and also pay out other bonuses as well.”
What’s the distribution of that payout? If 90% of that goes to the top 1%, then it’s nothing to brag about to new recruits.
Anyway, like most pyramid schemes, none the promotional or training info mentions expanding actual retail sales. Maybe because the product is useless and only a cover for a recruiting scheme? Wake up.
edav6,
“(by the way those figures above aren’t even close to the actual figures)
I would suggest that you guys do some more research on the comp plan before you criticize to much more.
One24 has paid out over 50% of it’s monthly income since it’s first month in existence and also pay out other bonuses as well.”
The figures you refering to are wrong in what way? It is a basic math example and the numbers all add up. It does not matter if you replace the revenue amount to 10 million or 50,000. The point in the statement of the math equation shows that only 1% of people could possibly make more than $40,000(3k+/mth – If you think the math is wrong, then why wouldnt you correct it. The reason being is because you cant, and another that you don’t even understand how your own company compensation plan works.
Another video posted tries to explain the silver income willbe worth thousands of dollars if the company goes to 200k PCs or higher. If you could take 2 minutes of your time to figure out that the way the silver income is laid out, the shares will always be diluted as the company grows.
Lets do another little math problem and try to clear the silver income up:
I will use 100,000 PCs as my basis for the example, and saying that the comapany starts today, and grows to 100k within any given amount of time.
100,000 PCs would generate $6,000,000 in comapany revenue, making the silver pool equal to 10% of that, which is $600,000
Now lets say that a “small” percent of people qualify for only one share(they refer one that refers one) Lets say 10% of the people in the company qualify for only 1 share and no one else.
This would mean that 10,000 PCs would qualify for 1x of their silver shares which would be at least 90,000 shares each. 10k times 90k equals 900,000,000 shares.
No we will have to divide the silver pool into the shares, 600k into 900,000,000, giving us $.0006 per share. Now multiply this share value by the the 90,000 silvers you would have, and you come up with a 1x share being $60. Now you could qualify for up to 5 shares, but then again this would only dilute the shares.
These amount of shares I list are much smaller than what the numbers would actually be. Actual shares will equal 1 x per 20-25% of the comapny PCs.
Now looking at my example, if you would substitue my low side of qualified shares with what the actual 20-25% always average out to. An replace the 100k with 10,000, the actual round about number of PCs currently. You would see that $60 share would be cut in half by doubling the percent to 20, making 1x shares for someone with 90% of the company under them around $30. So working my example out and back to the actual numbers, you see that 30 bucks for each 1x share is what the top people will make and always will make. Check current value of someone in the first 1k PCs in and see what 1x of their shares is. Tell me how close the number is to 30 dollars, and this will assure you that I am correct.
You would be right EXCEPT you’re missing a very important detail in your math. Your .0006 isn’t a constant rate. for instance last month the silver rate per share was .002874. (By the way that figure grows every month with sales) So using your figures that person that enrolled one person and stayed on the product would get 258.66 for that ONE share.
But again we can talk all day about this and you dig up something out of some archive that proves what you’re saying. And I can do the same.
You major argument is about the price of the product but you should know better than anyone that people put their own value on a product. Just because i can buy a iPad on ebay of 50% off doesn’t make apple a scam.
EvaV6,
If you can buy a brand new latest iPad on Ebay for 50%, please let me know how you are doing it. If you are referring to old technology, then your argument is irrelevant and pointless. Please compare apples to apples.
go out buy a pc today! pick two that have the exact same internals and i can guarantee you that you will find one cheaper than the other because of a logo in front. Apple To a Apple with a different sticker on it. the fact is people put a value on a product. Even your honda that talked about in another post. you could pay 20k for a honda or 25k for a honda with a service plan. the fact is there is a value in the service. The service you will NOT get buying burst thru ebay. So you’re not even comparing apples to apples.