Last August I wrote an article on the MLM, Nerium. Quite a bit has happened since that time. Their largest critic has been silenced and they’ve come out with another product. I found an CBS News local affiliate who covered it in depth. There was even a clinical study published last month (May 2015). It seems in the best interest of consumers to have a revised article that covers some of this in detail.
Please be aware that some of it may have a slighted disjointed timeline since I’m mixing some of the original article with the new information. Let’s get started…
People have been asking me about Nerium since November of 2011. Specifically Jeff Flanzer of Ojai, CA wrote me as he became a distributor citing the integrity of Nerium founder Jeff Olson who worked for Pre-Paid Legal, which Mr. Flanzer was a distributor for. He said that Pre-Paid Legal was a “good company” which caught my attention.
In the world of Multi-Level Marketing, people have a very strange opinion of what a “good company” is. Pre-Paid Legal got bought out, but before it did, its history is laughable. Wikipedia cites the following: the Wyoming Attorney General smacking them for distributors using prohibited income representations, the SEC smacking them for counting money they paid to salespeople as assets instead of expenses, and settling 400 lawsuits in just the state of Missouri, which doesn’t include one they lost to a customer who cashed in for $9.9 million.
And that was just what happened to Pre-Paid Legal in 2001. Perhaps Jeff Olson came along later in time for the FTC investigation in 2010? I’m not sure, but it doesn’t make sense to me that one would willingly join an organization with this history and reputation unless their other offers were absolutely terrible.
Last December I got an email from a reader named Missy which read, “I have childhood friends who are giving up their careers for Nerium AD because of the $$/Lexus they have rec’d. It all seems like Monavie all over again but I can’t convince them otherwise because of the ‘science’ behind it.”
The multiple emails and my own experience (see the Success from Home magazine story I detail below) lead me write about Nerium today. (This is an answer to all the Nerium salespeople who think I just “slam companies to make money.” I get general inquiries from real people, do the research, and present the results of that research.)
Nerium Products: Nerium AD and Nerium EHT
Much of this article was originally written when Nerium only had it’s Nerium AD skin cream available. I’ve attempted to rework and update the article to include their introduction of the Nerium EHT product. Nerium, the company, and Nerium AD was covered extensively by Bare Face Truth, so I will start there.
Nerium AD gets Bare Faced Truth’d
The website Bare Faced Truth is run by two doctors and had written about Nerium extensively for more than two years. Their articles had hundreds of comments. Unfortunately, the information on Bare Faced Truth has been deleted from their website. This happens quite often in the world of MLM. Usually it is because of one of three things happens:
- The lawyers for the MLM threaten to sue the authors for libel if the material is not removed.
- The MLM offers a cash settlement to remove the information.
- The authors get harassed and bow to the bullying. For example: I’ve had my life threatened, been blackmailed, and had my website hacked.
I can’t say what is happening in this case, but usually when someone puts months of their life into (successfully in my opinion) exposing fraud they don’t decide to delete it haphazardly.
I’ve replaced the links below to ones from Archive.org. I encourage everyone to archive those on their hard drive, because it might soon be gone forever.
The first Nerium article serves as an introduction and points out the oleander kills cells, not just cancer ones, which makes it sound harmful. It also explains that the salespeople know the marketing, but not the science behind the product. It is a huge red flag of a pyramid scheme when salespeople pitch the business opportunity and can’t tell consumers how the product works. I also found it interesting that the article mentioned a close friend who was a distributor in Ojai, CA. It couldn’t be the same Jeff Flanzer who contacted me, could it?
In their second Nerium artice, Bare Faced Truth, explains that they contacted MD Anderson Cancer Center, which was supposedly a reputable place “looking into Nerium”, yet no one they contacted seemed to have heard of it. The specific person looking into it, could not be located. They then went to many independent blog sites and looked at reviews. It seems there were two types of reviews: 1) Horrible ones and 2) Ones from distributors trying to make money. Finally, they expose many of the lies that MLM tells the public in great detail.
Note: Bare Faced Truth found that MD Anderson Cancer Center specifically wrote that they DO NOT ENDORSE Nerium in any way. One or two individuals with an affiliation to an institution may make a claim or have accepted money to do research for a company, but it doesn’t mean the institution itself is. If someone in the US Army buys Nerium AD, we don’t say that the US Army uses Nerium AD.
In this case, the marketing was so overblown that MD Anderson Cancer Center had to set the record straight. There’s a huge problem with MLM… take one inaccuracy and spread it without regard to fact-checking or the truth.
In their third Nerium article, Bare Faced Truth covers the “mania” of its distributors saying that Nerium AD really does work. It touches on a few of the factors that I’ve covered in-depth at No, Your MLM Health Product Does Not Work.
In their fourth Nerium article, Bare Faced Truth covers a Nerium distributor (called a Brand Partner) who set up a misleading press release lying about how new information on Nerium was going to be released in the wake of the FDA warning L’Oreal’s promoting practices. It was simply a marketing ploy. Is it lost on anyone that the irony of misleading and lying to people in a press release to sell Nerium product is worse than what it was condemning L’Oreal for?
In their fifth Nerium article, Bare Faced Truth reveals that Nerium has decided to attack Bare Faced Truth rather than work with them to answer their questions. Bare Faced Truth shows that Nerium admits that they are trying to silence such critics… effectively trying to cease their freedom of speech (or press in this case I suppose). For example I have experienced this myself.
Reputable companies address criticism openly and transparently. If they can defend their actions they do. If they can not, they pledge to make amends and do a better job in the future. However, if a company isn’t reputable and can’t address criticism openly, defend their actions, admit to mistakes, or pledge to do better in the future, I guess the last option is try to silence the criticism itself.
In their sixth Nerium article, Bare Faced Truth goes into very specific detail to show that Nerium AD causes massive oxidative stress that kills cells.
There is (or was before it was deleted) a lot more on the Bare Faced Truth website and it’s really impossible for me to cover it all here. Once again, the unbiased doctors have spoken and given you all the information you need to know about misleading marketing of Nerium.
A Local CBS Affiliate Exposes Nerium
There’s a great article and video on Nerium on CBS San Francisco affiliate KPIX 5’s website. Here is the article… and here’s the video that goes with it:
It is worth reading and watching, but essentially CBS gets unbiased doctors who say that there’s no proof Nerium is safe and nothing to indicate it is effective. They even brought up concerns that it could cause an allergic reaction. One doctor went as far to say that it is not real science when asked. The same doctor looked at the before and after pictures and concluded that only an eyebrow lift or Botox could cause the result.
I found this part particularly interesting:
“Olson says the proof the product works is in the sales, over 3 million bottles, and the rave reviews from the women our Los Angeles affiliate station interviewed. But since the product is sold mostly through multi-level marketing, KPIX 5 asked him: ‘A lot of your strong supporters, they have a vested interest in this company.” Olson responded: “That is one of the good things about word of mouth business or relationship marketing, people give their own testimonial to the product.'”
It reminds me of 7 years ago when MonaVie sold a billion dollars worth of $40 juice that the inventor admitted was “expensive, flavored water.” People were buying product because it was necessary to participate in the “business opportunity” of recruiting others into the “business opportunity” commonly referred to as a pyramid scheme. The sales do not indicate real interest in the product, but interest in financial freedom.
We also saw how the perceived chance at financial freedom caused MonaVie distributors to make unreasonable testimonials about the flavored water. Some even that MonaVie cured cancer.
It is further worth noting that the FTC Endorsement Guidelines require the following:
“If the advertiser doesn’t have proof that the endorser’s experience represents what consumers will achieve by using the product, the ad must clearly and conspicuously disclose the generally expected results in the depicted circumstances;”
As the doctors made clear, the advertiser (Nerium) doesn’t have proof about what the endorser’s experience will be. These testimonials seem to fall on the wrong side of the law. This is a huge negative that should have been pointed out by the CEO.
The video added more information that the company’s salespeople specifically work push down negative reviews in the search engines, so that only their financially biased reviews show up. It’s becoming clear to me why Bare Faced Truth’s reviews seemed to go away.
What is this, the skin cream mafia?
Nerium AD and Clinical Trials
When I did the research for this article in August 2014, I wrote,
“I noticed that Nerium claims to have done a clinical trial. Best I can tell from the pictures at the bottom of the page, the ‘trial’ consisted of only 4 people. Actually it could have been more people and those were just the four they wanted to show. Details of the clinical trial are largely ignored without even a link (that I could find) to give more information. Nerium said it “enlisted the services” of a third party. Funding your own studies is always a red flag… even if it a third party service.
The best I could tell, the clinical trial was not published in any peer-reviewed scientific journals. While getting published in a peer-reviewed journal isn’t a guarantee of a product working, it is a little bit better than, “We paid a company to study our product, and, surprise! they found it worked phenomenally.” As noted in this Reuter’s article on beauty products: ‘… studies had shown industry-funded research is more likely to have positive outcomes, and that people could be influenced by financial interests even if they didn’t realize it.'”
As I mentioned at the very beginning of the article, there is a clinical trial published in May 2015. What’s interesting is that Nerium has change their page on clinical trials to no longer say that they enlisted the services of a third party, but instead say that they are independent clinical trials. They have taken the opposite stance from a few months ago.
If you look at that clinical trial, one of the authors is Robert A Newman who is listed as being affiliated with MD Anderson Cancer Center (see above mention about that) and Nerium. Since when are independent clinical trials authored by the people clearly affiliated with those who make the product? It also says it was approved for publication by Jeffery Weinberg who happens to work at MD Anderson.
If you dig a little deeper you’ll see that Kathleen Benson and Gitte Jensen work for NIS Labs, which is presumably the third-party that Nerium hired. NIS Labs lists on their industry services page: “We are clinical trial and lab test specialists for the natural products industry. We specialize in pre-clinical testing and clinical trials as part of an overall strategic research plan. We encourage sequential publishing of peer-reviewed manuscripts as data is generated from in vitro bioassays and clinical studies, to help build a strong science-based product portfolio.”
This doesn’t look like an independent clinical trial at all to me. It looks to me like Nerium hired a third party to “help build a strong, science-based, product portfolio” and utilized Newman’s connection with MD Anderson to get a colleague to approve it for publishing. And Newman himself seemed to contribute significantly to the cause as he was an author of the paper.
Before you even get into the details of the clinical trial, the conflicts of interest here seem very, very obvious.
“Did You Try It?”
Whenever I write about an MLM health product, I get the a minority of distributors asking a question that seems logical to most people, “Did you try it?” With any health product, certain factors such as placebo effect make one individual’s trial useless. The sample size of one person is too small. If it appears to that individual to work, then it could be the placebo effect, essentially an illusion of it working. If it appears to that individual to not work, then it might just not work. The question doesn’t lead to any helpful conclusions.
This is why scientists don’t test new experimental medicines on one person and then release it to the public. It doesn’t matter what one person’s view of their results are.
In fact, it often takes testing on many, many people to determine if the product has harmful side effects. These tests are called clinical trials. You want to stick to products that have successfully completed enough of them to get FDA certification for any claims they make.
Wrinkle Creams in General
As Lifehacker points out, “clinically tested” and “dermatologist tested” have almost no meaning when it comes to skin cream.
That article references a tremendous article in The Atlantic on skin cream in general. Here are some highlights (I’m tempted to cut and paste the whole article):
“Now, this machine looked impressive, but despite the good bit of digging I did after the appointment, I could not find an independent analysis of its clinical value…. Reading between the lines (or, actually, simply reading the lines), it seemed the company viewed this machine as a way to move product.
The size and influence of [the beauty] industry creates challenges for anyone seeking to get to the truth about the products it makes and promotes. Many experts I found were not independent scientists, but dermatologists who also had a clinical practice and, as such, benefit (some greatly) from a thriving industry. I am not saying that physicians knowingly twist information about the efficacy of beauty treatments, but there is ample evidence that such conflicts of interest can have an impact on how research is presented and interpreted.
In addition, little literature produced by independent researchers is out there. For many beauty products, there seem to be either no data or only small studies produced by proponents of the product… So there isn’t a lot of good science to draw on.
To make matters worse, the popular press is rarely critical of new beauty products… Rarely did I find any real evidence or expertise beyond personal testimonies (which I don’t need to remind you are not evidence)… The so-called experts who are quoted in these stories are often part of the beauty industry or individuals with no research background.
Publishers don’t generally sell magazines by reminding readers that nothing works. Consequently, getting straight answers about anti-aging and beauty products is nearly impossible. There exists a confluence of fact-twisting forces: lots of money to be made by manufacturers and providers, huge advertising campaigns that deploy vast quantities of pseudoscientific gobbledygook, a lack of independent research and information, and consumers who desperately want the products to do for them what is claimed. The cumulative impact of all these forces results in a massive bias toward representing a product or procedure as effective.
… history tells us that a skeptical position is almost always correct. As with trendy diets, after a bit of time it almost invariably becomes clear that the alleged benefits associated with some new, exciting anti-aging beauty product can’t live up to the hype.
Virtually every magazine with a focus on fashion, celebrities, health, or fitness offers regular advice on skin care and combating aging. Most newspapers have a weekly style or beauty section. At any given moment, probably hundreds of beauty-related recommendations are sitting on the average midsize magazine stand. And all these stories are almost completely devoid of any reference to credible evidence. Beauty advice is a science-free zone. Anything goes.”
Hopefully this puts the “Did you Try It?” question in more perspective. A better question would be, “Why would anyone pay money for wrinkle creams without scientifically credible proof?” And by scientifically credible we don’t mean all the biased stuff mentioned above.
Nerium EHT
The above was mostly focused on Nerium AD… it’s been around a lot longer. Nerium EHT is very, very new, so there isn’t as much on it. However, there are a few things that I think are worth looking at.
Nerium EHT and Princeton
In mid-April of 2015, Nerium put out a press release announcing Nerium EHT. The press release read, “The key to Nerium’s groundbreaking anti-aging formula is the exclusive, patented EHT extract, discovered after 20 years of research in Princeton University Labs by Dr. Jeffry B. Stock.”
The wording of this press release could certainly lead one to jump to the conclusion that there was a partnership with Princeton, right? It was even questioned in a comment on this website. The best evidence though came from Twitter. Look at how many times Princeton had to set the record straight:
@karinweizel We do not have a partnership with Nerium.
— Princeton University (@Princeton) April 10, 2015
@jill_welton Please correct or remove your post. Nerium does not have a partnership with Nerium.
— Princeton University (@Princeton) April 11, 2015
@TrishKrachun There is no Nerium partnership with this university.
— Princeton University (@Princeton) April 11, 2015
@jenlewis4_lewis Cerium was an autocorrect fail. The error is the claim that Princeton, Nerium are partners. We are not. Thanks.
— Princeton University (@Princeton) April 11, 2015
So why did Princeton have to correct all the Nerium distributors. It wasn’t just the press release. Coinciding with that press release, Nerium had one of their big gathering of distributors called “Get Real 2015.”
Here’s a video of CEO Jeff Olson introducing EHT. Take notice into how much focus he puts on Princeton:
Nerium clearly didn’t have to mention Princeton at all, especially because Stock’s work was for Signum BioSciences as mentioned here.
No wonder Brand Partners were quick to use the Princeton name to market the product instead of the more correct, but much lesser known, Signum BioSciences.
This is one famous way MLMs mislead distributors. They hitch on to credibility of places like Princeton, even when the University has no affiliation with the MLM. Like the telephone game gone bad, distributors incorrectly spread the misleading information that such a partnership exists. It’s a numbers game, they only need the most ignorant 5-10% of the population to believe it and jump on board.
Nerium EHT’s History and Marketing
I noticed that Nerium’s blog calls Nerium EHT “The newest Nerium Breakthrough!”
So you think that Nerium spent a lot of time in a lab working on it? Nope. The product was available via “Mind Enhancement Sports”, which you can see via their old website or Signum BioSciences site.
Nerium didn’t have a breakthrough other than negotiating the distribution rights to a product that was already available.
Nerium EHT’s Effectiveness
I haven’t seen anything scientific regarding Nerium EHT being effective. It seems that the marketing point of Nerium EHT is that is slows down the aging process of the brain. It is confusing how they’d be able to scientifically assess that on such a new product. It isn’t like you can test “brain age” over a couple of weeks and say that one group’s aged less than another groups.
If there was a magic “brain-age slowing-down” product, I think you’d have to test two large groups over 10-20 years and hope you find a difference. This difference would not likely be very large since the brain, like all parts of the body, is going to age. Most people tend to age as a similar rate (it isn’t often that someone mistakes a 40 year old for a 20 year old.)
Nerium Product Information available Elsewhere
This section may expand over time. For now, I have one piece of information on the products that are worth sharing.
There’s a good article on Nerium AD’s toxic ingredients from an licensed esthetician here.
Nerium, Ray Liotta, Before and After Pictures
Nerium distributors like to show a lot of before and after pictures. However, one set has put Nerium in hot water. Ray Liotta is suing Nerium for the before and after pictures it used without his permission. Perhaps most importantly, Liotta claims to have never used Nerium and says he wouldn’t even if paid to do so.
If that weren’t bad enough for Nerium, the lawsuit claims that Nerium is a “product-based pyramid scheme” on page 5 paragraph 31. If lawyers are calling Nerium a pyramid scheme, I’m certainly not going to argue. I imagine they’d get sued for libel if they were wrong (as “pyramid schemes” are illegal).
The lawsuit cites many claims of Nerium’s salespeople using social media to post the fake pictures of Liotta and fake claims that Nerium AD was the cause of the result. The MLM structure makes it easy for distributors to run amok with a lie, like a false rumor running through a high school. MLM proponents say they shouldn’t be punished for one bad apple. However, you are always going to have a few bad apples in every barrel and the MLM system maximizes the damage from such bad apples.
While before and after pictures seem impressive, after watching this 37 second Photoshop transformation, it’s hard to take them seriously. We know top magazines airbrush attractive movie stars to make them perfect. Why would you trust a skin cream company NOT to do the same? They have millions and millions of dollars on the line.
Nerium’s Business
Enough about Nerium’s products, let’s get down to the business… and Nerium’s MLM/pyramid business “opportunity.”
Nerium Lies about MLM and Pyramid Schemes?
I found an interesting article on Nerium’s website about MLM and pyramid schemes. You may find it here, but I suspect they’ll revise it substantially after reading this, so I archived a PDF version here.
The article is fairly unprofessional and full of misleading and just wrong information.
It starts off with a title of “MLM’s Explained.” The title itself implies that “explained” is possessed by an “MLM” due to the apostrophe. I’m not immune to typos myself, but I don’t make the kind of money to employ an editor and I’m a one-person shop. While I’m being picking of typos there’s also a point where they write, “It’s not dependent on any product every being sold.” It feels like they rushed this document.
Interestingly in the paragraph of “MLM’s Explained”, they don’t attempt to explain MLMs. Instead they discuss the “direct selling model.” This is a common game MLM companies play to confuse people. They refer to the same thing, and “direct selling” was invented because MLMs got a bad reputation. You probably know that Ebay, the most pure example of “direct selling” in the United States, is very, very different than MLM.
The first paragraph mentions that the “… independent contractors [are] able to set their own hours and be their own boss.” This is true, but here is what they leave out:
1) independent contractors in MLM usually make about half of minimum wage in revenue.
2) independent contractors in MLM are responsible for their sales supplies, marketing materials. Overall, more 99% of contractors LOSE money when accounting for the costs.
3) independent contractors in MLM earn no benefits such as health insurance or vacation.
Being your own boss and setting your own hours while you lose money is not a good idea.
Nerium continues with the next section of “Direct Selling Advantages.” Specifically they write, “direct selling allows people to try out the product or see a demonstration of how it works before deciding whether to buy it.” This is only true if an independent contractor pays for product to demonstrate or give away as a sample. The product is already bought and paid for. In contrast, numerous non-direct selling methods exist that give people samples and demonstrations. You can often see both examples at Costco. That’s a true example of trying before buying, because it doesn’t rely on inflicting more debt on independent contractors who are already losing money.
Nerium’s attempt at explaining MLM/Direct Selling continues: “And since there are no stores or corporate overhead costs and the sellers can usually work out of their own homes, direct selling is cheaper for everyone involved.”
Actually, Nerium does have corporate overhead. Their CEO doesn’t work for free. The product doesn’t materialize out of thin air. It is true that they don’t have stores, but many products are sold on Amazon, Ebay, or an official website which don’t require stores. I’ve covered dozens of MLMs and the products are very expensive. In this case, we have the scientist from CBS San Francisco who said that there’s no science to Nerium AD… and they are selling a business kit full of product for $999.
It may be cheaper for Nerium to pay sales people less than minimum wage and give them no benefits. It is especially true when the sales people spend their earnings on the product. However, when the product is vastly overpriced, it isn’t cheaper for the independent contractors.
It continues, “For the independent contractors, it’s the most accessible way to go into business for themselves.” Actually blogging is a more accessible way… not that recommend it because blogging is difficult. I’m sure you can buy some “no money down” real estate flipping products to get into business too. The point being, that these are terrible businesses.
Continuing… “90% of the work of starting a business is already done: the product is already invented and tested, the factory is up and running, and the branding is already taken care of. Forget needing millions of dollars for start-up costs; practically anyone can afford to start a direct-selling business.”
This is exactly why MLM is a terrible business. Since anyone can do it, there’s no barrier to entry. You may have millions of competitors. The independent contractors who lose money often put the products on Ebay to recoup some of their money. You are competing against that. You don’t have any input into product direction or pricing. As author MJ DeMarco put it, “As a network marketer, you don’t own a business – you own a job managing and creating a sales organization… MLM distributors are commissioned employees disguised as entrepreneurs…”
To top it off Nerium continues with this, “To reach more customers, direct sellers can recruit and train other individuals to join and become sellers themselves. It’s kind of like outsourcing our marketing and training programs: in addition to making money by selling Nerium products, our Brand Partners can earn commissions for coaching new independent sellers.”
That also appears to be the definition of a pyramid scheme, but we’ll get that in a bit.
Nerium: “[MLM] simply refers to the fact that new Brand Partners are trained by more experienced Brand Partners, creating different ‘levels’ the same way that an office organizational chart would usually have multiple different levels.”
This is where Nerium is confusing a legal hierarchical organization where payment is not based on recruiting with a pyramid scheme where the structure is defined by recruiting and payment based on the recruiting hierarchy.
It’s a good try, but everyone in MLM should be focused on product sales. There’s no need for multiple levels when everyone is trying to do the same thing. It’s not like Microsoft that might have a head of Microsoft Office, head of Microsoft Windows, and head of human resources overseeing entirely different areas.
Nerium: “Multi-level marketing does have a mixed reputation, because a few bad apples have used it as a cover for running scams. These scams are MLMs in name only, because they’re not really ‘marketing’ any products; instead, they’re pyramid schemes.”
This is not an accurate description of an MLM or a pyramid scheme. The FTC has guidelines on MLMs/pyramid schemes here and there is no mention of “not really ‘marketing’ any products” or anything of the sort. In fact, the FTC shut down Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing (FHTM) for being a pyramid scheme. It had claimed it was an MLM. As that Wall Street Journal points out, “FHTM sales people sold a whole variety of things, from Dish Network packages to organic shampoos, nutritional supplements, residential gas and electricity contracts and mobile phone plans.”
So it is clear, pyramid schemes can be marketing legitimate products. The inclusion of a legitimate product is not an indicator of whether a business is a pyramid scheme.
Nerium: “In a pyramid scheme, people who join pay money to those higher up the pyramid, and hope that they can get other people to join who will pay money up to them. It’s not dependent on any product every being sold.”
This does not line up with the FTC has guidelines on MLMs/pyramid schemes at all. While it might be true of a simplistic pyramid scheme, MLMs can run more complicated ones like FHTM that went on for a decade.
Nerium: “However, that’s not at all how Nerium works. Nerium is a true MLM, with a top-quality product to sell. All commissions are based on sales of products to customers. It’s a system that works because the product works, as the results show.”
Well, again independent scientists say that the product is not science and is not a top-quality product. And while the commissions are based on sales of products to customers, those customers could be other independent contractors, which do not qualify as customers according to the FTC:
“Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. If the money you make is based on your sales to the public, it may be a legitimate multilevel marketing plan. If the money you make is based on the number of people you recruit and your sales to them, it’s not. It’s a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money.”
My simple interpretation of this is that if you can find a Nerium Brand Partner who makes more money from his downline than from the product he is selling to people outside the sales organization, he’s running a pyramid scheme… and Nerium is helping him do it. The problem with Nerium’s statement about commissions being based on product being sold to customers is that they are also based on product being sold to the sales organization which is not considered a customer.
In my opinion, Nerium would be wise to update their documentation to match the FTC guidelines instead of attempting to create their own definition of what a pyramid scheme is.
If you are still confused about whether Nerium is a pyramid scheme, here’s a video that should help you clear it up:
Nerium’s Fraudulent Marketing in Success From Home?
A couple of months ago, I got into a discussion with some Herbalife supporters on Seeking Alpha. Their argument was that MLM must be a legitimate business because it was covered by Success Magazine. I pointed out that Success Magazine was owned by VideoPlus (which is now called Success Partners) and that their website openly shows that their advertising partners are exclusively MLM companies… naming dozens of them. They somehow couldn’t grasp the bias right in front of them, or didn’t want to admit they were wrong.
They suggested that I go to Barnes and Nobles and pick out a Success Magazine and read it. Unfortunately, my Barnes and Nobles was sold out or didn’t stock it. However, they did have another magazine from the same publishers called Success from Home.
The Success from Home magazine was clearly an advertisement for Nerium. It was like reading an infomercial, but without any kind of disclosure that Nerium pays Success Partners. There was no attempt to be objective about other types of successful home businesses (blogging anyone? just kidding). There was no attempt to be objective about the thousands of MLM companies available. It was around 120 pages with over 90% of the content based on Nerium. The other 10% was boilerplate good financial or entrepreneurial advice to convey credibility.
To its credit, Success from Home comes clean on its website:
“Each issue is written and designed to inform, motivate and inspire individuals considering the home-based business market and further the success of those who already own their own business.
Every month Success from Home spotlights an individual network marketing or direct selling company, exposing readers to its rich history, exciting future and the people responsible for its success.”
There’s a word for this: Propaganda
It’s one thing when you know to expect the bias and the paid advertisement is disclosed. It’s another when Success From Home highlights the few successes ignoring that the financial harm that is inflicted to others in the pyramid, and includes profiles of vacation destinations (that certainly isn’t “from home”). One of the big red flags with MLMs being pyramid schemes is the pitch of income expectations, and this would certainly qualify especially in a paid advertisement attempting to hide itself as a business publication.
That’s not all, the May 2014 issue was the third time that Nerium was the featured company of Success From Home, even though Nerium has only been around for three years now. Nerium must be paying them a pretty penny to get about 1/12th of the magazine’s annual focus. Again, this isn’t what you’d expect from a broad magazine about every home business industry. If the magazine changed its name to “MLM Monthly”, that would at least be less misleading, but still would draw suspicion for focusing so often on one company.
I don’t see how this kind of marketing can be considered anything but fraudulent. Quite frankly I’m shocked that the FTC hasn’t acted on this already. This marketing was not committed by a few rogue distributors, but it is deliberately designed by management of Nerium itself. Fraudulent marketing is the kind of thing that’s going to get a company written up by personal finance bloggers (or at least this one) as being a scam.
Most people should be able to realize that Success and Success From Home aim to mislead people into thinking they are legitimate business magazines giving legitimate business advice. Maybe that’s why the FTC isn’t putting resources into shutting it down. A legitimate company would distance themselves from such marketing… it certainly wouldn’t embrace it.
My Gift to You
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Here are two things you can do to put yourself in a better financial position:
- Create an Emergency Fund – Dobot squirrels small amounts of money from your checking account to its FDIC-insured account. It’s 100% free. You simply have to create a goal of having an emergency fund. You don’t have to think about it and you’ll likely never notice the small amount of money being moved. I’ve squirreled away more than $1100. You can read my Dobot review here.
- Track Your Money – Over the years, I’ve gathered so many financial accounts. Banks, Brokerages, Loans, I got multiple of them all. The best software for tracking them all is Personal Capital. You can’t get to your destination if you don’t know where you are to start. Personal Capital gives you that… and, like Dobot, it is completely free.
For more visit my five minute financial fixes article. If neither of the above is helpful, I’m sorry. I appreciate you for just being here. The person recruiting you has a financial incentive to present only one side of the story. Kudos to you for searching for more information to make an informed decision.
Final Thoughts
This article is now nearly 6000 words long and still Bare Faced Truth has done all the heavy-lifting for me (at least for Nerium AD). Given all this information, I am forced to conclude that Nerium is a scam in my opinion. It doesn’t appear to use reputable marketing and the “science” behind its product is doubted by experts… except for what appear to be their own studies. Their salespeople seem to use misleading marketing as well. The company itself seems to mislead people about what MLMs and pyramid schemes are which I find especially egregious. I think most of this information by itself would be enough to conclude that the product and company is a scam, but that is up to you to decide.
Combine all the evidence together… and I don’t see how you can come to any other conclusion.
Update: Looking for another opinion? Ethan VanderBuilt has written about Nerium as well.
Update: Truth in Advertising reports on their #NeriumTruth campaign cc’ing the FTC about allegedly illegal claims.
For someone claiming to have done your homework, much of what you have claimed is 100% inaccurate.
It’s comical to read since Nerium is the fast growing direct sales company that will be breaking all records since its REAL! On every level……everyone else is just jealous. Too bad, they could all jump on board and have a free Lexus and youthful skin. I know I do. Plus the money ain’t bad either. The problem with most MLMs is they all make big promises but few deliver such as Nerium.
Michele,
Can you point out things that are inaccurate? Was Nerium not featured in Business from Home three times in a business relationship with the magazine? Did Bare Faced Truth not write about Nerium extensively as I linked to?
We’ve done the dance with “fastest growing” MLM (don’t confuse “direct sales” with MLM) before with MonaVie and ViSalus and they both imploded just like you’d expect of a pyramid scheme. Growth is easy to sustain when you are a young company and have no money. It’s a lot more difficult when you mature and people start to realize that no one is giving away free Lexus’. That should be a red flag for you right there.
If you don’t see history repeating itself again, perhaps you haven’t done your homework.
Sycophants are damaging reputable trust in any company nowadays. So many people bloat the positives that you really can’t believe much of what you read about any of these so called beauty products anymore.
I don’t think we need half of them anyway. I enjoyed your article, it was very in depth and informative .
Michele replied to the comment via email. Sometimes people who subscribe to get comments delivered via email think they can reply back and have it published on the site. I got her permission (her comment will follow):
Michele’s comment via email was:
I think I covered my agenda in the article’s introduction. Let me know if it was unclear and how I might clarify it.
I guess the the FTC likes to warn people about things without merit then: “Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. If the money you make is based on your sales to the public, it may be a legitimate multilevel marketing plan. If the money you make is based on the number of people you recruit and your sales to them, it’s not. It’s a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money.”
Pyramid schemes rely primarily on endless recruiting. Corporations aren’t pyramid schemes as there is very little recruiting and none of it is endless. The software engineer making 6 figures writing code for Microsoft is not making his money from recruiting others.
Unfortunately, people in MLM are uneducated about the difference between a pyramid scheme (illegal, recruiting) and a heirarchical organization (not illegal, money is generated by recruiting).
It’s very disconcerting that such uneducated people are permitted to recruit others.
You seemed to have missed the point about Success from Home. They don’t highlight all types of home businesses, just MLMs when they are hired by the MLM company. It’s like a magazine calling it America Today and only reporting about a small town in Wisconsin that sponsors it. It’s purposely misleading to use such a broad title and cover such a minor market… and then treat it like an undisclosed advertisement makes it much, much worse.
I’m not sure what the DSN is, but it sounds like the Direct Selling Association (DSA). If so here are some myths from the Direct Selling Association (DSA)… smart people would distance themselves away from it.
Before you suggest that Amway is reputable in any way, they $155 Million dollars to settle pyramid scheme accusations. Companies to typically write checks for $155 Million to make a problem go away unless it is a really big problem.
There’s a difference between being a CEO and a distributor. Why doesn’t that Latin American CEO of quit an become a Nerium distributor if the opportunity is so great. You say that corporations are pyramid schemes, so why is he taking a CEO title role?
It’s funny that Nerium people have to convince people it’s “Real.” There’s no such thing as “real science.” It’s just “science.” It makes you sound like a 2nd grader saying that your Dad is “real strong” and could beat up someone else’s Dad. If the science was legit, they wouldn’t have to brainwash you with the “real” adjective.
It looks like Nerium admits that they hired the third party, which means they were indeed paid. Can you prove otherwise? Do you think the third party companies typically work for free?
Well, let’s see how the Ray Liotta lawsuit goes. If it wasn’t him, then why is he going out of the way to spend money to sue Nerium? It simply doesn’t make any sense.
Why don’t people understand that MLM’s are bad?
It’s bad to have to guilt friends/family into becoming your “partner” in your MLM…
It’s bad to have to guilt your friends/family into buying your “products”…
It’s bad to lie to your friends/family about the background of your “product”…
I know a couple of people who are selling this nerium stuff and it’s awful how they lie to their own grown children and family! Anyone with 1/2 a brain can go to Anderson Cancer Center website and see their Nerium disclaimer – yet these women tell their family and friends the same old tired story about the “awesome” discovery at the Anderson Cancer Center… PLEASE!!!!!!
I attempted to be a brand partner for a year almost..I lost tons of money. Am mending relationships botched by my sharing of this misleading marketing..and my skin, looks the exact same as it did one year ago. I’m a skeptic… But in my mind I found myself thinking, this has to work, BC I want it too…I never overcame my skepticism, thankfully..constantly asking my Nerium ‘family’ why do they keep saying ‘real’?… If its real..you shouldn’t have to drive that point home. I spoke to 100s about joining, and never had one fully positive “thats a great idea”…I developed this anxiety BC I couldn’t morally get on board with sharing so many misleading ideas…I waisted my family’s money (am now rebuilding that..every time I look at my 2 and 5 yr old, I feel guilty)… When I went to my ‘upline’ they always lay blame like if I were following the Nerium system, it would work…my problem is, I can’t debunct all the awful words about Nerium across the internet…and I can’t confirm their claims…its just this blurry cloud of “hopefully people won’t ask much…and then I won’t have to lie much”… The whole “its a clue” is laughable… If this is a legit business, I shouldn’t be on a scavenger hunt for clues. There should be honest facts to base educated decisions on. The “Nerium pays me weekly!… I love my abundant weekly checks claims!”… All I can say is, I never saw one…and in all honesty, I made it sound like I had…to save face. I would like to pose a thought for all the brand partners…have you found yourself in a situation, telling a tall tale about your Nerium ‘business’? I bet you have… And you may not be willing to admit that publicly or to yourself even…but that’s how it goes… I’m glad I’m out…because I can earn back the money I lost…I don’t worry about reaching my quota of recruiting every day…and I’m not lying to myself anymore. I’ll drive a jalopy over a Lexus any day…if it means I earned it honestly. I’m not trying to evoke anger or say nasty things about Nerium…this was my personal experience…but felt passionate about my experience…and felt the need to share…for what I enduree this past year, was nothing Nerium kept promising.
I forgot to mention… I was in the depths of my ‘Nerium experience’ when the ray liotta nerium lawsuit made headlines…its interesting to me now, that I can’t Google any of those keywords now, none of the articles I read are easily available. …THATS a clue… (Someone got paid).
Thanks for the comment “nomore.” I totally missed their catch-phrase, “It’s a clue.” How annoying. People aren’t playing detective, and if they were, they would have found Nerium is a scam as you did.
It’s funny to see people get hyped up about being paid weekly. My paper route in the 3rd grade paid me weekly.
You are dead on about people not being able to admit to telling tall-tales. In psychology this is often called cognitive dissonance. It’s where a snake oil salesman actually believes his products work, because he has to. He can’t handle the inner-turmoil of being a crook/scammer and he has to support his family.
Thanks for sharing.
I like how your blog popped up when I googled “Nerium scam”… I hope its stays up there…more people like myself find it and find themselves compelled to share their experience. You’re well spoken and hahaven’t been sensored yet!
Ugh.. I went to st. Louis for the Nerium “get real” conference…what a waste. A bunch of people “got real” drunk.
Too bad i don’t have ray liotta money…I’d sue them and get my money back.
Thanks, nomore. I appreciate the compliment.
Unfortunately these companies like to sue anyone and everyone who tries to point out the lies and logical fallacies that they use to scam people.
Every now and then I like to check the web to see if the “real” truth about Nerium is surfacing yet. Usually it is buried quite a few many pages down on the search engines.
This blog gained some momentum and landed on my first page, so I would like to say well done. I agree with your blog and appreciate the effort you put into it.
My sister starting selling Nerium just over a year ago. All the hype, all the hey you “have” to try this, yada yada yada. Then the zinger, your my sister, can’t you at least try to support me? So I capitulate. It was not an issue of money, for me it was an absolute disdain for MLM companies. I didn’t like her sales technique and when I googled, her bylines were all over the internet.
After buying her product monthly for 3 months, she dipped into the “but your my sister” tagline again and convinced me that she just needed one more person to sign up for auto ship in order to qualify for a bonus. Again, I capitulated.
Here is what I didn’t tell her. I never used the product. I gave it to my husband who used it without fail for 6 months (absolutely no change on wrinkles).
Here is what she told me after 3 months: “Wow, your skin looks better than ever, can I take a photo to share?” – No, not comfortable with that, plus (it would be a terrible lie). 5 months – we are on a girls get away with a few of her Nerium comrades and fellow friends that I’m sure she is hoping to convince to buy or become distributors because that is all that was discussed entire weekend, “Hey everyone, just look at my sisters skin, isn’t it amazing? All because of Nerium”. No. I say to myself, that actually would be from Algenist (my favorite skin care product at that time).
I left that weekend realizing that I must stop perpetuating this lie, although I never told her anything negative, nor anyone else until this moment. I discontinue the auto ship, never admitting that I did not use the product, just claiming finance. I think I spent around $700 that was enough. No. She sent me a scathing letter saying I hurt her feelings for not supporting her business and decided she can not have me in her life.
Although I realize, I was dishonest (I never did tell her about that – don’t we all keep fibs from our siblings?) about not using the product, the end result was if I didn’t keep buying or become a distributor (so much I did not mention here), I am not good enough to be in her family, because she has her Nerium family now.
The LOL moment though was I was with her on the day she posted a pic of herself. My sister has terrible acne scars on her face and the day I was with her she looked the same as I have always known her without makeup. That day a pic went up where she said look at me 3 weeks in and see the difference? ummm, where were the scars? I was just with her!
I write this as it is my hope more people come to the realization sooner about this product. I am essentially throwing a family member under the bus here with my personal insider investigative research.
That’s an amazing story Lynn.
I often say that there’s a placebo effect with MLM pills and juices. However, you can see that even with skin cream, where there should be an obvious, observable effect, people just see what they want to see.
As for those scars disappearing in the pictures, now I’m wondering if Nerium has a group of Photoshoppers behind the scenes.
I’m sorry that your sister fell in love with woo. There are cult specialists who speak and write about the evils of MLM.
lol I am currently “secretly” arguing with a Nerium “person” who put one of her bait posts on FB. She added me a while back when I was looking to buy a car from her for my son who is in college. She then messaged me about my son, telling me that she had some great information and an opportunity for my college boy that would make him successful – a book that would “change his life” and make him more successful than ever. I told her he was already quite successful, studying medicine at a top school, and has already achieved great things with many more to come…because I’m his mother and am making sure of it. No book needed… That ended that.
She then started in on me – first about the book. I am starting a new business (legit, of course lol), so thought maybe it could help but I was just so busy; however, she was very persistent. When I finally “reluctantly agreed” to meet her, she hands me this bottle of face stuff along with the book…and some other “Nerium Family” members were also there, who tried to lecture me on how to become wealthy (I have no desire to be wealthy, personal choice, I value people, not wealth – that’s just my personal path in life, not judging anyone). So I argued – I argue by nature when I feel strongly about something. Just to not hurt anyone’s feelings, I took the book and face cream. I tried the cream a few times, apparently incorrectly, but didn’t care because I am not one to piss money away…so I finally gave her stuff back and told her I was too busy with the rest of my six children at home to read the book, and that $80 a month for some face cream I knew wasn’t going to work was ludicrous. I figured she knew she was arguing with a stop sign, and she left.
She then posts this below…I have changed her name to Nerium Chick and the others “responder” except for my own…I’m ME ;) Oh, and my second very detailed reply was DELETED mysteriously…hmmm, I played stupid, because again, I don’t like hurting people’s feelings or making them look dumb…or feel bad; but I cannot stand when someone is lying. I do not like dishonesty. Anyway, enjoy…
NERIUM CHICK: So according to Forbes magazine, the average 50 year old has LESS than $50,000 in their bank account. Why do you think this is??
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NERIUM CHICK and 5 others like this. (she likes her own posts…lol)
RESPONDER: Because they listened to people tell them go to school, get a good job and retire well. Well in this generation that retire well part can’t happen unless families look at generating multiple sources of income. Glad at 27 years old someone told me about relationship marketing. Almost 10 years later, I can say retiring in my 50’s is more realistic retiring with $50,000 plus in my account and on a yearly residual basis! Grateful for #nerium
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RESPONDER: So true My daughter. I can attest to that
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RESPONDER: I listened too well
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ME: I have a 30-year-old niece who has well over 50 grand in her savings. She has an ill husband who cannot work, and two beautiful children. She worked her way up at her job and has been there 10 years. She could be making more at her job, but she did not have the required degree; she is now taking online courses to obtain that degree to further increase her income Therefore, IMO, I think the reason is that too many people live outside their means, spend too much for nonessentials, and didn’t obtain their degree earlier on, in addition to making poor choices and weak work ethics. I have never met someone such as my niece who did not have a large savings and on-target plan for retirement.
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NERIUM CHICK: That is awesome! However, the relevance to this topic in Forbes magazine pertains to this exact situation that your niece is experiencing. You stated she has worked her way up at her JOB and her husband is ill and therefore he cannot work. The fact of the matter is that she could be making more, but is not due to lack of education. Now, 10 years into her career in order to make more money she must return to school to obtain a higher degree with no guarantee of better pay or any type of job and financial SECURITY. They have 2 wonderful children, and God forbid she was unable to work for whatever medical reasons. .. the money in the bank is no where near enough to sustain a family of 4 for years to come. As far as people living outside their means. ..All that means is that those are the individuals who limit themselves! They allow someone else to decide their worth. What you consider “non essentials”, another could consider as an “essential”. At the end of the day, life is what you make it. Good things dont come to those who wait! I if you want it, go get it! Education is extremely important, however learning how to become wealthy, leave a legacy for your family, and become financially free is what I call a “necessity”.
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ME: Whaaaat?? My other reply is gone? Oh FB, geez. At any rate, just to highlight…the job is already hers once her degree is obtained (which is the reason she went back to school), she didn’t get where she is today with, again, “well over 50 grand” in the bank and not have a backup plan for unforeseen life issues, and her job is more secure than you could ever imagine because she is truly valued for her hard work and dedication and not easily replaceable.
As I stated in my disappearing post, education, great work ethics, and being financially responsible is how my young niece got to where she is today. Bad choices, living outside your means (in other words, what you can truly afford so that you can save for unexpected things such as my niece has) and being financially irresponsible in general is why so many people have less than 50 grand at age 50. Overpriced fancy homes and cars are not essential to live, as most people only purchase them to look good in front of others…which in turn kind of means they are letting others tell them how to live.
Hard work, honesty, integrity, selflessness, generosity, caring, compassion…those are words that come to my mind when I think of how I want my own legacy to be; not being wealthy…you can leave a great legacy without being wealthy.
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And am I the only one who notices she kept my first response so she could use it to her advantage? Once I clarified in my second response that my niece had “WELL OVER” 50 grand, plus 401k, plus life insurance, medical, dental, etc., and that her job was 100% secure, that post was deleted. Let’s see how long the new shorter version stays…
[Editor’s Note: Please see my next comment to understand the flaws with this articles…]
Here is a response to the Bare Faced website
http://steventothemax.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/response-to-bare-faced-truth-docs-nerium-criticism/
Ray Liotta suing Nerium:
http://steventothemax.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/why-is-ray-liotta-suing-nerium-international/
Steven Keller,
The links you provided to your steventothemax WordPress website are laughable at best.
The first one you claim is a response to the Bare Faced Truth website. Actually you don’t seem to debate any of the information that the website has come across. You instead try to discredit the author which is a classic attempt to suppress the truth with disinformation:
That is followed up with an irresponsible spreading a rumor by Steven Keller: “I was told that it was the result of inappropriate sexual contact with a patient but have’t [sic] verified it.”
Next the article goes into the typical, here’s a testimonial (perhaps Photoshopped) of one person. This is a complete failure in providing any useful valid evidence. Furthermore, it does not respond to the Bare Faced Truth article in any way.
Finally the article closes out with a strawman fallacy about MLM that isn’t accurate. For example he says, “Most people have one bad experience and make a label: ‘all MLM companies are…'” This is simply not true in life. I know many people who have had a bad experience in restaurant and they don’t label all restaurants that way. I’ve researched at least 20 MLMs in excruciating depth and haven’t found one that was close to deserving of even below average rating.
They were all horrible and they all include people like Steven using disinformation in an attempt to discredit critics.
Even if the President of The United States came out to condemn Nerium, there would be someone from the other political party (in this case Republicans) to say that he’s clearly not reputable.
With that said, it’s time to turn our attention to the second article of Keller’s about Liotta suing Nerium.
That article suggests that Liotta is suing them for publicity, just because he’s a Hollywood celebrity. You can sue anyone for anything. However, you’ll probably lose if you don’t have a solid reason for suing someone. It looks like Liotta has a solid reason. If he was just in it publicity, why not sue a relevant company like McDonalds or Google? Liotta is much more well-known than Nerium, so Nerium would be the one benefiting from the publicity of this, not Liotta. Also, people clearly care much more about Liotta according to Google Trends.
The argument is made that Liotta’s claim doesn’t make sense because there’s a video Sofia Milos pushing the cream. First, the two are unrelated events… which is another example of Keller’s disinformation to suppress the truth. Liotta’s claim has nothing to do with what Milos says about Nerium. Liotta’s claim is either valid or not on the basis of its own merits.
Second, Sofia Milos pushing the cream doesn’t make sense. The video that Keller includes mentions her as “an ageless Sophia Milos.” Well Nerium AD has only been around for a couple of years now… and she was just as ageless at the time. And quite honestly she looks her age at 45.
Third, Keller can’t even spell Sofia’s five-letter first name correctly, which shows you her celebrity power. And yes, Ray Liotta is far more popular than Sofia Liotta is.
Steven Keller than admits that Liotta’s lawsuit has great merit: “But when some silly ‘independent’ distributor adds Ray’s picture to the mix all of a sudden people go ‘holy cow look at Ray Liotta’s results!'”
The most important thing to note that Nerium bears the responsibility for its sales-force’s actions. This is basic RICO 101. That’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act for those not familiar with RICO. Actions of Nerium’s sales-force can’t be dismissed by adding the word “silly” before “independent distributor.”
If Nerium doesn’t want to bear that responsibility, it needs to vet its sales-force and train it better. They need to be on top of their sales-force taking these actions and specifically state on the corporate website that a rogue distributor took this action and the distributorship has been swiftly canceled as a result.
If Nerium did all this, this might cover this behind for this instance. However, I haven’t been able to see that it was done.
Steven Keller than resorts to showing more before and after pictures. Again, this isn’t relevant to his topic of Ray Liotta, but does it anyway. A reader correctly points out that the before and after pictures use cheap lighting tricks.
Steven Keller responds with: “If the ptoduct didn’t work how could we sell $400,000,000 in product in 30 months using a model with people sharing their personal results with friends???”
My response to that would be: “If MonaVie juice was ‘expensive flavored water’ according its own inventor how did they sell 1,000,000,000 in 36 months using the very same model… one that the FTC has linked to illegal pyramid schemes?”
The answer is here: No Your MLM Health Product Doesn’t Work and that article has been republished by reputable scientists and doctors.
Here is another article for you to discredit.
I clearly deal with all the Truth Doc’s objections with links.
http://steventothemax.wordpress.com/2014/03/11/response-to-licensed-esthetician-blasts-nerium-ad-secret-toxic-ingredient/
People can read my posts and your responses and decide for themselves.
Steven Keller,
Yes, they can read your posts and my responses and decide for themselves. I point out the specific logical fallacies. Perhaps some people aren’t educated enough to understand them, but the fact that you don’t debate them and concede the arguments show that your articles aren’t trustworthy.
Instead of attempting to defending your first two failures of articles, you point to another of your articles, based on Rachel A. Sauer’s fair, logical, unbiased criticism of Nerium. In your comment here, you suggest that it deals with the doctor of Bare Faced Truth’s articles, but again it doesn’t mention it in any way.
Let’s cover the 15 points you mention in your article:
1) Ahh, the typical MLM Mind Scam of “just try our product”. As a commenter mentioned above, when she gave the product to her husband to use, the Nerium salesperson couldn’t tell that she wasn’t using the product (and wanted to promote it as working on her) and didn’t notice the husband using it at all.
2) You never want to watch Nerium’s own video on safety… you want third-party results. Also, suggesting that Nerium has a different kind of oleander that is unique to it, is a failure. And yes, there may never have been fatalities, but it may never have been tested in a lab. You certainly don’t want to take Nerium’s word that it is safe.
3) Ahh, it is “PATENTED.” Here are some other ridiculous patents: http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/04/0408_ridiculous_patents/index.htm. The United States Patent Office does not conduct trials to determine is a product is effect. It’s also a process patent, which is effectively useless for a health product. You then spread the unverified rumor that “one Sr VP of a mulit-billion dollar pharmaceutical company [said] that the dermal application alone of NAE-8 is worth more than all of his product pipeline combined.” Again, these are rumors that MLMs spread at the top to make the product seem valuable. Seems like you bought the scam hook, line, and sinker.
4) The YouTube link that you use here doesn’t work, so whatever you are claiming about the two people is unknown. We can’t even figure who those two people are.
5) Let’s see some specific citations about the cream killing cancer cells, but leaving healthy cells intact. This claim makes is extraordinary as it is almost impossible for an agent to determine the difference and attack one. It is essentially claiming that it has cured cancer. In such a scenario, it would be on the front page of Time and every other magazine for next 15 months. It wouldn’t need to buy its way into MLM publications like Success At Home.
6) You say, “Basic biochemistry is not required to be an aesthetician I guess.” Are you saying that basic biochemistry is required to be a Nerium salesman? Being an Licensed Esthetician requires a lot more education than being a Nerium salesman, who will literally take any breathing person. In fact, I’ve seen dogs signed up in MLMs.
7) I’ll assume you know what the US Patent Office does vs. the FDA in determining health products safe and effective. Clearly you don’t see to as you go back to patents.
8) Hmmm, http://www.neriumbiotech.com. Can’t get much more biased than that. What do the unbiased third parties say? Are there any?
9) Just because she says that something doesn’t work on cancer means that she has something that does. I can say that your Delorean doesn’t take you back in time when it reaches 88 mph, without having to furnish proof of another car doing it.
10) Oh, Jeff Olson paid the ST&T research facility to do clinical trials? I think I covered this in the main article. This is not reputable research or science.
11) This person also seems to be financially biased making the experience not worth covering. Again, it is important to disregard the people who are being paid to say that Nerium works. That’s simply a commercial or advertisement.
12) Yes, she would have also found that MLMs are cults hence the “happy loving caring sharing people.”
13) She actually did address this point at the end by calling it “a classic pyramid scheme.” Perhaps you should read what she wrote again.
14) How do you know that celebrities are endorsing it for free? Have you audited her financial accounts to ensure that no payment is being made? Let’s not fall into the “celebrity endorsement” trap. Being an actress does not qualify one as an expert in skin care creams.
15) Probably the same thing as she does of all the scammy doctors that attach themselves to all the MLMs I’ve covered… they are there for appearances to make the products seem credible to distributors. It is very rare than unrelated third party doctor/scientist endorses any MLM product…. probably because these companies never complete the FDA approval process to show that they are effective.
As you say, “etc. etc. etc.”
Found this blog while doing research on Nerium. I’m seeing more and more new “partners” of this latest MLM scam and I see the same old tactics still work. My church seems to have a particular ability to attract these pyramid schemes with no less than a half a dozen invading our membership in the past 10 years. All promising the same dreams and none delivering the goods all the while damaging families and friendships along the way. Wake up people!
Lazy Man, I just found your site by doing a google search for “Nerium scam”. All I want to say is, it’s extremely satisfying to read your responses to these MLM zombies. Their arguments are such garbage, I love seeing them put in their place. :D
Just look up 2 Nerium executives, Ronald Forrester and Leslie Hocker (AKA Leslie Forrester)
Both convicted in Federal Court for lying to the FBI after being accused of scamming nearly $500000 from investors. Ronald Forrester got almost 4 years in Federal prison and Leslie 3 years with no possibility of parole.
Read about the conviction here
Where there’s smoke there’s fire people. This too will come to an end.
Ron Forrester is apparently the marketing director for Nerium.
Good luck with this!
You have an interesting view on the Nerium MLM. Some people think it is a scam while other are actually quite successful being a part of Nerium. To each his own I guess…
Hmmm, interest comment coming from a Nerium distributor, who have a vested interest in recruiting. In every pyramid scheme there are “others who are quite successful.” So I’m not sure what you are suggesting here, but it certainly isn’t helping Nerium’s case.
A hundred bucks for a 5.9 oz tube of body cream?
Are you f-ing kidding me???
Nerium is just like every other MLM — trawling for suckers to join a pyrmaid scheme and commit to buying low grade crap at an insane markup.
I have only my personal experience to relay on this subject. It started when my good pal was all gungho about her new and exciting business that I just have to try! In effort to be supportive I took the bait. She sent me off with these two new bottles of this miracle product that I had to return in a week.
I wasn’t confident that any product, however miraculous, could have appealing results in such a short time frame. I tried the product for that week and noticed that my face was irritated. I have sensitive skin, so a lot of products have this effect, no biggie. On the last night, prior to my having to return it, I started experiencing a tingling at the tip of my tongue. I decided to pass on the product. It was expensive anyhow and I didn’t like that she said that they will auto fill my order monthly.
Prior to returning it I did some research and realized what it contained and I didn’t feel comfortable. So I asked her what the long term effects were of using the product over time, as anything you rub on your epidermis will potentially penetrate into the blood stream. She just kept telling me to look on the site and it explained how safe it was yada yada yada. I didn’t appreciate that she overstepped my concern to start discussing the business plan. I could get a lexus.. etc if I sign up and start signing others up. I told her that I didn’t feel comfortable with the information supplied to me and that I couldn’t peddle a product that I myself wouldn’t use. Period.
After months of continuous posts on social media written to shame us friends for being too ignorant for not jumping into this rapidly growing business, I have distanced myself and hid her feeds. I mean what sales associate tells you to look up the info of the product and uses shaming in their marketing campaign? That’s bizarre on it’s own.
Regardless if it is effective or not, I can’t respect a business that can’t even train their associates to answer important questions regarding one’s health. Instead it seems the focus is on the acquiring of bodies to bully, pressure, pester and annoy other unsuspecting and innocent bodies into peddling a product.
I work in a call center. I was taking a call and the lady on the other end was so happy that I had helped her so quickly and nicely that she asked if I would be interested in making more money. I said “well, who isn’t”? So we exchanged information (against company policy). She sent me a text with the information later that day when I got off of work and I looked into and was totally skeptical of the whole thing. We set up a call with another one of the Brand Partners for the next day. And boy oh boy did they try and sell me hard. Don’t get me wrong, I give everyone the benefit of the doubt and keep a very open mind. So I listened and got intrigued. I came to work the next day and was telling one of my coworkers (who happens to be my best friend) about the product and the offers and he told me not to do it because it sounded like a pyramid scheme. So, I listened in on a conference call that night and gained the information that I needed to convince myself that this was not a good idea. Then last night, while wrapping my gifts, I get a call and it was from the lady and then she tagged the phone call in with this Terry guy about the financial aspect of the whole thing. And he, kinda pissed me off. Because he was clearly trying to sell me off and get me on board. But i’m a calm person and listened to him and then asked him the tough questions as to why there were so many negative comments about the product on so many sites. And the answers he gave just blew my mind. I get it, I’m 24 and you think im naive and you can push me over and sell one over on me because I can’t think for myself yet. But guess what? I CAN!!! 10 years ago, my sister was wanting to sell AVON. So she found a man locally who was a partner with them and spent $300 on the products and was selling them. When it came time for her to restock her inventory, she called the man only to find his number disconnected. She called AVON and gave them her reference number, and they told her that all the product that she had before, was stolen and that they never heard of the man that she had spoke of. So she was out all that money and out more because she could not supply the product for her customers. And to top it off, she had to pay AVON back for all the stolen merchandise. Not fair. So yes, i’m skeptical. Do I want it to be true? Yes. WHy? Because I wanna be successful and my life isn’t rainbows and butterflies. I would like to wake up everyday and not stress. But oh well. Reading all the comments definitely changed my mind on what to join this company. My mind has been made. Maybe one day I will marry rich (im not like that) or will win the lottery. Who knows. I’d love to here more about this company and others and why they are such horrible businesses.
I can honestly say, I became a brand partner a little over a year ago. At first, using the product seemed AMAZING so I said, why not?! Now, first of all if you do get involved it’s like a total cult mentality-no lie. They’re a bit nuts with it and if someone tries to sell you that “I love making my own hours and working when I want to so I can be with my family..” it’s crap! Funny, these people say they have time freedom but want you on calls and events every week on evenings and weekends,…FAMILY TIME! Now to the product. About three months ago it stopped working for me. I mean, dead stop. My crows feet were awful, the frown line and laugh lines deeper, so I asked my friend who signed me up and I got “could have been a bad batch. Open a new bottle.” Still nothing. Went to my medspa and got botox (which actually does work miracles! lol) and the doctor and I discussed it and he told me that in some people it WILL work great for a LIMITED time due to the fact that the oleander tends to cause inflammation. When you’re inflamed and “puffy” it decreases the appearance of wrinkles. Over time, I built up a tolerance (just as you would to a medication you take daily) and the swelling decreased more and more…showing the wrinkles. 100% honesty, I get better results with the Neutrogena Ageless Intensives line. All their products are great and inexpensive. By the way, all the other ingredients in Nerium are laughable and common and found in EVERY OTC moisturizer. I feel like a bad person for calling out a company I’ve been affiliated with but I would say don’t bother and DEF don’t get roped into the “business”. Oh and if you HATE network marketing “catch phrases” like “you’re on FIRE” and “You don’t want to miss this ride!” you will want to beat all of them senseless :)
Before I read this I did see Bare Truth article. First, these people (partners) are so desperate to sell this product there are hundreds of links that are so misleading on Google before you reach true links and facts about the company. Sadly today anyone can create a webpage, video and to professionalism at that, it is hard to investigate this company before you jump in. The best and most logical links I have found are ones like these, unbiased and just state the facts. To be honest most facts are hidden. Created websites claim statements or place lab coated people on the page (or use influenced words like science, lab, breakthrough, was studied for cancer well, if anyone knows research, they study hundreds of things a year and they fail but they leave that out – no proof it was a positive thing for your skin) there are just enough to catch your eye but not back it up with credits. Seems others who have contacted people who’s name they use (Dr. Anderson) you find out they are NOT connected to them what so ever only the fact they were the one who studied it for a cancer research nothing more.
I have to say I was approached by a brand partner and if you have only an hour to think it does sound grand, sad thing it is coming from a trusted friend or family member which makes choices even harder (or confusing). My first tip off, thank God, was later in the conversation they stated you get more of the product for free if you sell one… WHAT! now wait… I sell a product, I should get cash commission for my work. A bottle of lotion does not pay the rent. But you are told, well then just sell the free one you get then you make the cash.. are you kidding me? So, I sell what you wanted me to, but as my reward you give me more of the crap to sell before I can be paid. It is almost 100.00, times are bad and most people I know can not afford to pay that much money a month for something like this,so I knew it was way too hard or impossible unless I lie or create a miracle CRAZY.
Why does this continue and even the ones that figure out it is a scam continue? This is my take on it, being the average person on the street. Yes, times are bad, they are taking advantage of the time frame of our economy to cash in on desperate people who need to make money so they rave about their riches (which is only a selected few at the top, but even though odds are a bit better than the lottery but not by much people still buy lottery tickets in hope).
Second, people are investing 500.00 for a starter kit that is not worth more than 50.00. They could not afford this in the first place and banked on the American dream. So they continue just in hopes they can earn back what they invested or took from their kids piggy bank. I would say the percent is 70% or higher never recoup their loss. Sad. The brain washing and showering fancy parties makes people feel important and successful (they are good with psychology remember they are masters of this). Then another human trait,to admit you were wrong or you done others wrong. There is so much pushing and lying or taught to twist things, it is shameful for those to admit they were scammed or took advantage of others money (ones who really did not have it to spare) and I feel sorry for them, they go through much regret and sadness once they noticed what they have done. Anyone can get caught up in this so they should not be shameful, it is a talent and all apart of it. All I can say is if you lost family and friends due to this, just put on a party with no strings and call it “I am so sorry I took advantage of you” maybe it can be repaired.
I would like to say this about AmWay, never bought from them but yes they were not a ethical company BUT at least there were many affordable good products that were useful that they did sell. Their only fault was illegally making money by the way they ran the company. Things like Tupperware, etc. it is all different, you sell, you earn a commission like any other sales person. The products are fabulous and your stater kit is at cost. Very inexpensive and you keep these great items. One party or good sale of a good product paid for your investment right away. They spend more time teaching you about the product and how to use to rather than selling.
Nerium is harmful to people who have certain heart conditions. In WebMD. Are they teaching this to their sellers? Is there a warning label? none! that is the last thing on their minds it is all about recruiting and you are a star!
I would like to add, today is a different world it is not only dollar signs. Does this company offer health insurance, paid days off, 401K, profit sharing or any other benefit that in a moments notice can wipe out everything you earned? Basically NO SECURITY.
P.S. that car you can earn- most do not know this,you have to reach a certain sale quote. Once you do certain amount of sales per month, you get the car. What they do not tell you is the car is leased (you do not own it). The payment for the lease comes out of your sales, so if you do not make the same monthly sales the car goes back or you have to start paying for the lease out of your pocket. Hmmm so in reality you are paying for the car, there is no earning.. so what if I say I do not want the car, I would not buy such a car in the first place and want the cash?
Thank you for writing this article and to the people that shared their own personal testimonials. My wife was wanting to start selling this sh!t and I was against it from the moment she mentioned it to me. Her (our) friend sells it and her FB posts are non-stop about Nerium. I’ve been sceptical from the first time I started reading in to it and this article just solidifies my distaste in “pyramid” schemes, or whatever you want to call it. Again, thank you all and especially to the author for taking the time to inform us. Don’t be a sheep people!
Hey!! I posted a while back and keep meaning to check back in!! I shared my personal experience with Nerium above… I’m still struggling to get over that awful decision. The author of this blog continues to debate this topic with grace and dignity and I certainly appreciate it! Keep coming, and sharing your own experience here!! I lived my life with this company… The pro-nerium people are saying everything they told me to say… And the skeptics…well, let’s just say, keep trusting your gut. Its cult like. You make more money recruiting people than selling product. #1 red flag… I was skepticle all the months I endured Nerium…and I ran out of money. I feel like I robbed my own family. Not a single Nerium person talks to me anymore… Except two…who are desperately trying to bring me back. Ugh. I’m just glad I’m not in their shoes anymore. … My skins doing great with a moisturizer from the store… No harassment…no recurring bills… Who would think I’d get sucked in to this!? I just wanted to do something for my family… And all of their misleading promises NEVER. panned out.
^^^ don’t do what I did! ^^^ ;-) you are worth far more.
I had never heard of Nerium until this morning, when someone I know tried to convince me to become a partner or whatever it’s flipping called. I’m naturally pretty skeptical about things like this, but I decided to hear him out. The first thing that stood out to me as weird was that he kept trying to sell me on all the extra money and free bonus items that I would recieve for “doing nothing” in just 60 days. He never even mentioned that it was some sort of “miracle” skin cream that I would be required to sell. I feel like the focus is definitley more on the money aspect than what the actual cream is, etc. I asked him what the catch was. He said “nothing.” I call BS to that. He had me call into Nerium and listen to this whole recording about how this woman quit her job and now makes twice as much money with Nerium. It all felt very canned and scripted, and just kind of weird. When I got off the phone, it got even more creepy-cult-like. I said “So, it’s like an Avon type of thing, you buy in and then sell stuff.” He said “you’re not selling anything, you’re sharing information.” He repeated that and other canned lines that I heard in the recording. First off, I’m not even interested in doing anything like this because I don’t have the time or desire to be a salesperson. “Oh….but it’s not sales, you’re just sharing this great product with your friends and they’ll love it.” BS. I don’t know anyone that would even be interested in buying some random cream. And second, I could never be a part of a company that just seems so creepy and cult-like. It’s just not my jam, man.
People that believe in Nerium probably also believe that vaccines cause autism. Freaking idiots.
I think Nerium is a pyramid scheme! A few friends do it and tried to get my wife to do it. I tried it and at first I had the “Mask” feeling the sales people say you will feel making you think it is this miraculous product. However, in the back of my mind, I was thinking, this tightening feeling of the skin really feels like when I use Aloe on my sunburn, etc. Come to find out, Aloe is the main ingredient of the first ingredient, and the sole second ingredient of the cream. It is a $100 bottle of aloe! Aloe does have many benefits for skin, especially for burns, etc. I bet if you did before and after pictures of just aloe, you would see results equal to if not better than Nerium. All of the taglines make me want to smack someone… life changing, Nerium Family, share this incredible ride, etc. Come on, man! Quit drinking the Kool Aid! They cannot actually believe this stuff. To get your $1000 back you would have to have 10 people under you who buy in for $1000. If they buy in for $500, then it would take 20 people. That is not accounting for the monthly auto pay. As for the Lexus, they are making monthly payments of $500 for you, so should your sales or sales of people below you go down, you are stuck paying for a car you cannot afford. If you say I don’t want a car, I will take the cash… Oh nay nay! They don’t give you cash but 7 bottles of product. So more crappy product you can’t sell to begin with. The websites are very vague with the research behind the product. I would definitely say stay away, but that is just me.
Invited & Went to a Nerium “party” last year, the food was nice but>> the sales pitch was lousy, video demo was lousy, pathetic attempt at convincing others that the product works, said you can earn a bonus of a Mercedes Car (after just earning an ipad bonus- how is that even possible??) , two women showed up absolutely hammered drunk, some 60+ year old woman showed up and claimed it cured her facial cancerous marks (it was painfully obvious she was lying), the other up/down stream team-members there touted how they TOO will be earning a bonus for a new Mercedes shortly(or lexus?) and how another one of their “sales team” just got her car bonus, last…the head of the Nerium gathering broke out a huge bag of weed after they wrapped up the party. Afterwards, I thought, what a comical experience I just had…was this for real? …some Bizarro moments!
These MLM companies are so flippin’ annoying and a total joke. I just don’t know how people buy into this garbage. Unfortunately, now one of my family members is into the other MLM Evil: Advocare.
Barbarino, I wasn’t going to comment until I read your post. Your experience sounds exactly like mine. It was hilarious! My friend hosted a party and only 2 of us showed up besides the 3 Nerium people (2 talked about how they were about to get the Lexus). I only went to be supportive and had to bring my 2 children. The other non Nerium girl got so wasted and was so loud we could barely get through the video. I bought a bottle to be nice and the Nerium rep filled out a sales form for the wasted woman. As I was leaving with my kids the wastoid was outside smoking a cigarette and my kids asked me what was wrong with her and why was she yelling? What a comical disaster!! I laughed so hard when I got home and told my husband. I didn’t realize it was such a scam until I experience another recruiting attempt by a Rodan & Fields rep. She was trying to get me to pay $900 to be a business partner without even trying the product or giving me a sample. It led me to this blog and it’s so interesting to read about Nerium too. Now I am clued in and aware of these weird business cults. I just love this author! Great job Lazy Man.
Ugh. I have this old coworker who is constantly posting this Nerium crap on Facebook. She has her other Nerium friends respond with things that are obviously scripted. The whole things wreaks of desperation and has scam written all over it. If this was a legitimate company they would be able to stand being their product as opposed to having their uneducated cult members respond with “Nerium is REAL!” What the hell does that even mean? Thank you for your article and exposing Nerium for what it is. I just wish your article was the first thing that popped up in Google search and there were more people willing to take on these scam artists.
I have a good friend who is selling it now as well, and all she uses her FB account before is to post about this amazing opportunity. It’s so annoying, and I feel like she’s been brainwashed. The only people who respond or comment also sell it. The worst part is that she totally photoshopped her profile picture and then had a member of her Nerium family comment that the Nerium was working wonders. I know she doesn’t know photoshop, so it makes me wonder if they do have a team or someone who does that for them. Unless you look close, you can’t tell where the skin smoothing ends at her hairline, but because I’m familiar with it, I can totally tell. I tried the product, wasn’t impressed. The before after pics she showed me were unrealistic as well. It also should be pointed out that they don’t give you a Lexus. They give you a $500/month car bonus to put towards a Lexus. So what happens if you buy a Lexus, and then stop selling Nerium or stop receiving the bonus? You’re stuck with a car payment. $500 a month definitely is a nice bonus, but you’re not getting a Lexus free and clear. Can’t wait to see how this whole adventure for my friend ends. I hope not badly.
Sadly, the only way it ever ends well is if your friend spreads the MLM virus to dozens or hundreds of people. Then those people get into a situation where it doesn’t end well. It’s a classic pyramid scheme.
MLMs do brainwash people. It’s the only way they can keep them in while they are losing money. There are some articles on how to help these brainwashed people. I suggest this one: Emergency Handbook: What to Do When a Friend Loves Woo.
That “car bonus” is a particularly evil trick that I think they learned in the subprime crash… get people hooked on payments they can’t afford and see how it motivates them as the pyramid starts to collapse. I first wrote about the same thing with ViSalus’s BMW during its height a few years ago. They lost 75-80% of their distributors and many of the people got hooked for the BMW payments.
Of course with lower income from the scheme and the big car payments, it puts people in a very, very, bad situation.
I’d appreciate it if you spread articles and warnings like this one on Facebook to balance out their marketing of the scam.
Love, love, love your blog! THANK YOU, for coming right back at these. Nerium, MLM cultists! My good friend got so sucked into the mantra the pounded into her head, she fell into the whole schpiel about the “science” from well respected MD Anderson, the loads of money she could make! blah blah blah! and we had a rift in our friendship because I was not supporting this crap. She refused to delve deeper into the background of the guru who formed this MLM, who came from another scam MLM, Prepaid Legal, and she was already struggling, having lost her job, so this is as pretty much grabbing at anything to believe she could become rich and have a fancy car. She ended up sinking more of her money into this cult and came out with nothing. She works her butt off, has the utmost integrity, but bought into all the fancy, well packaged hype. She was a marketer’s dream victim. Now she regrets every bit of it and is stuck with products that have done SQUAT to change her skin and make her look years younger. This MLM has made very sure to suppress information that might harm its scam and I have yet to see TRUE medical peer reviews, ones that have NO benefit of being paid by Nerium ( like the Success From home magazine) claim this is a product that WORKS and backs up its claims of true efficacy. Keep on your mission! Te truth, the TRUTH, needs to come out. MLM’s will do anything to silence those who speak out against their propoganda. MD Anderson has been very clear about not promoting Neirum means not having ANYTHING to do with it and does not want to be associated with it. To insert the name of a fine medical institution to promote a cult MLM is reprehensible at best.
I’ll start off by saying that I am a Brand Partner. Nerium has worked very well for me. I get compliments on my skin all the time. Never any inflammation and it has not reversed in any way after 2 1/2 years. Nerium did not say that pic was Ray Liotta. That came from a couple of people because this person looked like him. We have a compliance dept that does monitor pics that are posted. People were contacted long before Liotta filed a lawsuit but unfortunately the pics were out there. I am sure I will get bashed for my post. That is what The Bare Naked Truth people do and are quite ruthless in doing so. They also have a skin care line they market. All I can say is for me personally I have tried countless products and spent much more money than what Nerium costs. Nothing else worked except one time using Retin A. I had to look like I had a bad sunburn and peel for two weeks first though. Then it lasts about 4-6 months and you have to do that all over again. The money earned in Nerium is based on product sold. If product is not moving through your group you don’t make any money. Most people don’t make much money in any MLM. But it’s because they don’t do the work. The difference is in a corporation there can be only one CEO with practically no chance of ever moving up to that position. So go ahead lazy man and take your best shot. I can do my own research and make my own decisions. Have you ever read the book Outwitting The Devil by Napoleon Hill? Drifters as he calls them love people like you.
Every MLM salesperson says the product works for them, even if it is a crazy, unreasonable claim such as curing cancer or baldness. I’ve seen MLMers claim that their juice cures autism.
So please spare me “the product works” line. If the product did work, they wouldn’t have to resort to a sales system that is indistinguishable from a pyramid scheme for consumers according to the FTC. They also wouldn’t have been caught in the MD Anderson Cancer Center lie… and the center wouldn’t have to take the drastic step of specifically stating that they do NOT endorse Nerium.
One of the many problems with MLM is the policing of the sales-force. The Ray Liotta incident is a great example of it. It is like Napster profiting of people illegal sharing music over a decade ago… the parent company is responsible for the actions of its users. In this case it is even more egrigious since Nerium is paying them to sell their product.
It doesn’t matter if the Bare Naked Truth people have a skin care product or not… what they’ve written appears to be perfectly accurate. It’s not like they made up the MD Anderson thing.
Southernhrt said, “The money earned in Nerium is based on product sold. If product is not moving through your group you don’t make any money.”
Yes, this is how all MLMs work. It is well-known that products can be used to hide the pyramid scheme. I suggest you read the FTC’s guidelines. A legitimate company sells product directly to people OUTSIDE of the sales-force. If “product is moving through your group”, it is very likely a pyramid scheme.
It isn’t that most don’t make much money in MLM… it’s that over 99% lose money in MLM. As a smart person has pointed out, it isn’t a matter of effort, failure in MLM is a mathematical certainty. It’s baked-in to the compensation plan.
Also, don’t confuse hierarchical organizations like corporations that don’t depend on recruiting for money with pyramid schemes that do depend on recruiting…
I’m very sure that Napoleon Hill didn’t endorse pyramid schemes. He died in 1970 around the time that MLM was getting going. I highly doubt he endorsed them in any of his writing.
Holy crap! Southernhrt’s comment sounded like it came from an MLM soundbite generating machine. Completely oblivious.
Nerium, like almost every other MLM company,is a financial cult. People are sold the “opportunity” to make money. But, the hard facts are that only 3 %to 5% of any person involved in a MLM are even breaking even. This is not because people are lazy, but because any MLM business model is inherently flawed. Nerium is a con. Forget the claims of the product, look at the business end and you’ll see the problem.
I love this article. a friend of mine is trying to push this. He’s the kids of guy who is always looking for the easy buck. His fb is all about the different businesses he is doing. I also remember another pyramid opportunity he showed me ” which isn’t around anymore” but I didn’t take the bait. It’s sad how bad people want to get rich quick that they’ll believe anything.
Now I’ve been in sales for years and love to hear others try to sell me. If I’m not busy I’ll listen just to hear them sink.
About a year ago I spoke with someone at herbalife and it’s the same thing. They bring you in and provided me a free drink which was good “had nothing to do with their products” a meal plan/ guide lines and a bmi test for free. I went for the free bmi “with two friends” cause I was lifting and didn’t want to pay for it. Now speaking with the rep she told me about the opportunity to own my own biz and bla Bla Bla. Knowing that I was the only one working out and using supplements she wanted to sign me up under her then told me i could sign my friends up under my biz. I looked at their product which hasn’t changed for years and knew the price was to high plus my current products were much better. So I gave her the let me look into and I’ll get back to you excuse and I’ll call her. After a week I get a text from her “note in all conversations she was nice and I knew she couldn’t be mean if she tried” asking if i want to meet her sponsor so he can show me all about how he makes 100k bonus checks a month on top of his regular huge checks. I reply back nicely that I’m ok I’m going to stick with what I’m currently using. I get back a sweet message of positive things I could be able to do if I get in with herbalife. I reply again I appreciate all she did for me like the bmi test and the meal chart ect and that is still a no for me. After that I get an awesome text back telling me how I’m losing out on being rich and calling me a loser without saying the words ” which I knew wasnt her and was most likely her sponsor guy she wanted me to meet”. Again I reply with well thank you for looking out for my future but I’m ok. After that I get my favorite text ever. It says well since you don’t seem like a smart person and you’ll never go anywhere bla Bla Bla I need you to return your bmi paperwork as well as the meal chart we made for you ” I laughed through the whole text which again wasnt her writing it”. I reply back “cause I had to hear the next response” with another message saying no I liked the meal chart I’m going to keep that and thank you for doing the bmi for me and that I wanted to keep those but I just didn’t want to use or sell their products. The next text was the same as well as my response.
What I think helped me “cause both of my friends were sold after the first 15 minutes on making money even though the reason we went was to get the healthier not make money” was I did sales in person over the phone ect for many years. You learn to see sales bs a mile away. Just know when something sounds to good to be true it probably is. Don’t just take someone’s word either do your research.
Notice with all these comments everyone learned about this through a friend or family member who you think you can trust and these companies know that. If I tried selling this to anyone in my family “all in sales” they would laugh and then tell me i need to get out before I lose more money.
Thanks for all the posts and the article. Another MLM one liner is “facts tell and stories sell.” Well in this case, the facts tell quite a lot. Here is what I don’t get. Many a MLM companies have been investigated and closed due to their distributors making ‘income claims.’ I see a bunch of posts from people on Facebook showing ridiculous bonus checks. One today for $750K. Others over a million. It’s all there to entice of course. Just wondering how they get away with this?
They get away with it because the agency that has the power to prosecute them is the FTC. Unfortunately the FTC doesn’t have the budget to do much. There’s a great article in The Slate about how they can’t fight FreeCreditReport.com (the company with those fancy commercial jingles):
The FTC has to fight a lot of fights… from privacy on the web to these FreeCreditReport.com campaigns. Herbalife is one pyramid company being investigated by the FTC, but Herbalife has had years where they made more than a billion dollars. The FTC has to take a company to court, which can be a long legal battle quickly draining their funding.
It might cost the FTC’s entire annual budget to shut down a single company, when they are that big.
It’s also worth noting that pyramid companies often contribute to political campaigns.
I’m fortunate enough to have connected with a few people who care and are willing to fight the good fight. It’s very helpful to have people comment about what they are seeing with different companies. I’m not very active on Facebook and I don’t see the ridiculous checks and things of that nature.
I bought some from a friend that wouldn’t leave me alone about this. I believe it is “setting records” for sales because of THEY HAVE YOUR CREDIT CARD and will be sending it monthly. I cancelled. Also, I have a weird syndrome that makes it so I have many cancers, one of which is of the sebaceous gland. (already have had one. Of course, friend is no doctor but keeps giving me the “How do you know this doesn’t work?” thing. After reading many posts from folks that have had problems with this, I don’t think I will use it. My skin has enough troubles. Wish I had just given my friend $120 outright, and said “Here is a gift for you.”
Great review. My friend gave me a sample bottle to try as well…and I ended up taking it as she was offering it for free and I had trouble with my skin for 10+ years now. Probably the worst product I have ever tried. :( I ended up finishing the entire bottle thinking it may be effective after a few uses….never buying in-to products without FULL research again.
Have you ever heard of advocare? Just got a friend pitching that to my girlfriend.
I tried looking it up online to find reviews and did find one which I though was your blog called Lazy MLM. But on that it is an advocare rep.
Now I’ve been lifting for years and I’m used to seeing new products every year come out that out performers the year before. But with these MLM companies like I don’t think they ever really change. Just basically the same product year after year.
Now my question is have you heard anything good or bad about advocare?
I have heard about Avocare. I hope to get the time to write them soon. In the meantime, I hope people read my many articles about pyramid schemes and apply it here.
Wow! Some investigative journalist you are. NOT! You neglected to mention in this piece that all of the articles you site regarding Nerium’s shortcomings are hatchet pieces published solely on bare naked truth “run by two doctors” as you say. Yeah, two doctors who have their own skin care line. Who obviously feel Nerium is cutting into their business. That is not character assassination that is a well known concept called conflict of interest.
Btw, I declined to push the product although a friend has literally made millions and others nothing, but I do USE the cream and for me, it works REALLY WELL. As in constant comments from good friends and family to strangers about my amazing skin. I am 61 and taken to be in my forties (on a good day). My before and after pics are surreal.
I extensively fact-checked what the Bare Naked Truth doctors wrote and it all checked out. As best I can tell, they have been 100% accurate in their articles. I don’t care if they have another skin care line, they’ve exposed the Nerium scam accurately.
It doesn’t matter that Bare Naked Truth has their own skin care line, because the truth is the truth. Sounds like they are just cleaning up the industry, which is a very good thing. If Nerium has a problem with it, they can avoid scamming people so they don’t get called out by their peers.
No, the MLM health product doesn’t work. As many other people have mentioned here, there’s extensive Photoshopping of before and after pictures with Nerium.
Please Please do a ‘scathing’ review on Advocare MLM! I personally don’t believe in them. My brother however, is entrenched in Advocare for over two years and it just makes me sick to see him get suckered. I think he is brainwashed and disillusioned by the whole MLM promises. Advocare is really big on the east coast, as HerbalLife is on West Coast. They all tout themselves as “Health Coaches” which annoys the heck out of me … I am a Naturalist when it comes to wellness and all these Health MLM Co. ‘gets my goat’!
Advocare is on my list to cover in the next few weeks. Keep a look out on the home page or subscribe to email alerts.
Linda I love how you defend nerium “My friend made millions and others nothing”. Most ofthem make nothing.
My buddy a rep or brand partner pushes this like Crack on his friends. On Facebook it is almost all he talks about. Now if you happen to have a negative comment or a great question about the product or how they operate it gets deleted without a response “what are they hiding”.
One other question, does every nerium rep say something about not hanging with negative people in their life? I just took it as if you dont believe the crap I’m shoving down people throats then we can’t be friends. Has anyone else heard that from someone selling this crap?
Bare faced truth has removed every word about nerium from their web site. Or maybe they were made to remove it.? They were so passionate about it, that I can’t believe they just let it go.
Wow, ouch. At least I was able to grab most of the content and archive it. I recommend others do the same.
Typically there’s either a lawsuit (threat of defamation) or a cash settlement tied to the deletion of the content.
Recently, I received an email-blast from someone who tried to pitch Nerium in the past. [paraphasing]
They always mention that this MLM method is revolutionary, the company and opportunity is like no other, this type of business structure is “the way of the future”, they will be quitting their current job in a year and do Nerium full time, and then state that they are going to be making a pretty significant purchase: like a house from their Nerium venture.
Also, I’ve seen some pretty dubious Nerium before and after pictures and without-a-doubt they are somehow faked or tweeked. Its so obvious: kinda like watching a Hydrocut commercial. (whether it be lighting, time of day, make-up, or photoshop, etc.)
Hi,
Thank you so much for your post! Reading it, and all the comments only confirmed my suspicions. About a month ago I was approached on facebook by a friend of a friend about selling Nerium. She knows that I am a stay at home mom of a toddler and 9 month old. At first I was intrigued because I had heard about Nerium here and there but didn’t know much about it. I love researching skincare and anti-aging products and read New Beauty to be up to date on all of them. Nerium has never been mentioned ( to my knowledge ) at all. Anyway, as soon as I said I was interested two other brand partners friended me on Facebook. They sent me a five night sample and I didn’t really notice a difference but the smell was awful. That part didn’t bother me that much because I know different creams work differently for everyone. I really started to consider paying the $500 for the start-up kit. Things are a little tight for us right now, my husband is a restaurant manager and we have a new family. So it was a “double edged sword” I’d really be setting us back at the moment but the potential for $, car, iPad was definitely appealing. I was also feeling the pressure from these girls saying to “take a leap of faith”, “this will be life changing”, etc. I just couldn’t escape the bad feeling I had. I started seeing the before and after pictures and some of them are absolutely ridiculous. ALL of them were in different lighting, different backgrounds, one even had a before picture of the left side of her face but the after picture was of the right side of her face!! Then last week they told me if I buy the $500 package before March 31st, I would be getting a lot of extra bottles. Also told me that on April 9th they would be announcing a new product backed by an Ivey league school that is going to blow everyone’s mind, on the same scale as Google. I have to say I started thinking of how I could scrimp to get the $. That’s when I decided to really look hard into this company and found your post and others. It woke me up. I would have been putting my family at risk all for this stupid scam. Sorry for the long story, I think I just wanted to vent a little ;) I just don’t quite understand how seemingly intelligent people can fall for this, let alone convince friends and family to do it. Risking my family’s $ would have been bad enough but risking other people’s would have been shameful. Glad I woke up before it was too late. Thanks again!
I have been using the product for quite some time and Love the product. I have used MANY over priced products and this one is like magic.
I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose by posting this. All I know is that I have an area of discoloration on my face that is not as prevalent. The crease in my forehead is smaller in length. The puffiness under my eyes is much less.
Yes, follow your gut, I agree! But don’t rule out a product because some person with a blog rants. I could care less if you use it or not but don’t avoid it because Lazy Man says so.
That’s one of the problems with MLM… we can’t be sure you have nothing to gain. If it really worked, they wouldn’t need to resort to pyramid selling.
They have a new product. Some kind of brain supplement. “Eye roll”
Ok so they are using pyramid selling . . . Guthey Renker draws you in with Meaningful beauty and it is next to impossible to cancel that . . . I didnt have my own website to cancel. Whomever says its hard to cancel must not pay attention because you can log right in to your own account and STOP. So very convenient.
Also, you cut out the middle man so to speak with this format, I am not paying for that part of the distribution channel. No retail fee’s no additional mark up . . . it goes straight to the person I signed up with and she gets free product. I have been getting my product for FREE for several months. So yes, I paid $120 for THREE months, that is all it took for me to be able to earn the product. Now I pay a WHOPPING $9.95 (S&H) . . . less than any crap product with gluten and parabin that you can get at a department store or CVS.
Thank you for you one sided research and obvious opinion on MLM but its not all that bad. I have a dear friend who is a single mom and is putting her daughter through college on this little “pyramid scam” you bash.
Nothing personal but I am curious what direct marketing company you work for that this has your boxers in a twist.
You don’t cut out the middle man with MLM, you add a whole lot more and the price increases because of it.
The company doesn’t pay the bills giving away free product. That only happens by recruiting others to overpay for the product. It’s not the kind of thing I’d want to be involved in.
You might want to read my website. I’ve written extensively why MLM is a scam. (And it isn’t called direct marketing.)
i have never seen such mass brainwashing of nice people. They will believe ANYTHING Jeff Olson says. I have friends involved in this. Great people. They eat sleep and breath nerium and think I am stupid and feel sorry for me because I refuse to buy into this $hit. Just because you are making money from it doesn’t mean it’s not a scam. It only convinces me that it is.
This is such crap…they are now boasting to have a patent to a miracle supplement. I lost a friend to this scheme…all they post is endless Nerium vomit. So very sad….and the scariest part is I don’t think they’ll stop until hitting financial ruin!
I cannot access the articles in the links given. It just goes to the barefacedtruth website homepage. I’d really like to read them. Any help??
Natasha, it seems like the articles were deleted. I’ve gone back and linked to archived copies, so you can get all the information. Enjoy!
I have a friend who has been sucked in because they saw a woman in desperate financial needs. She let her bills go and sunk an entire paycheck in this. I politely keep declining and she tells me how great she is doing well 2 nights ago I get the OMG you won’t believe this, they have decreased the buy in to $250 and we are going international and now we have supplements that help with brain something or other (I stopped reading at this point). I could NEVER do this because I am a terrible liar. So glad I found this and I am not the only one thinking it is an insane endeavor. When I said this is a classic pyramid scheme she said to me, isn’t everything… Um NOOO
What about their new studies with signum coming out of Princeton labs?
The first thing that comes to mind is the press release that says, “discovered after 20 years of research in Princeton University Labs by Dr. Jeffry B. Stock.” We’ve seen the 20 years of research before with LifeVantage Protandim. In that scenario they were using the entire researcher’s career of which barely any was actually on Protandim (it was developed by someone else).
We’ve seen the false use of a reputable organization with Nerium before. I’m not saying that it is false this time, but I don’t see Princeton putting out a press release celebrating the product.
I’ve also seen that it was mentioned that the product was “patented”, but you (typically) can’t patent a “discovery” as it is billed here. Someone couldn’t patent electricity or fire, for example. So it is very fishy that the two terms are being used together.
Furthermore, the EHT product is mentioned as if it is exclusive to Nerium. It seems to be available from Signum Science’s ME Sports (run by Maxwell Stock, Jeffrey’s son?). That page has a lot of claims, but with the usual disclaimer that none of them have been validated by the FDA.
It seems that ME Sports simply sold the rights to it to Nerium. So it was a product that already existed that wasn’t lighting up news headlines.
Nerium pays some money for the license to slap their name on another product that wasn’t heralded as interesting by the news or scientific community. My reaction is that this is pretty bland, but we know what when you put something like this in the hands of distributors, they’ll start saying that they became rocket scientists because of the stuff.
I think if you check Princeton’s twitter you will see they are indicating this is not the case.
Princeton University [email protected] Apr 11
@TrishKrachun There is no Nerium partnership with this university.
I noticed throughout your blog that you use “I noticed”, “I think”, “Best I could tell”, “I don’t see how”, “It seems”, “I guess”, “It looks like to me” and “I’ll assume”.
Notice a lot of “I”s in there? And you know what assuming means, right? If you are going to write derogatory statements about anything, you should get the REAL facts and use them. Please don’t assume anymore.
Nope, it means that these companies have a history of bringing frivolous people giving legitimate criticism… including me. This is my way of stressing to the reader that this is my constitutionally protected opinion and not defamation.
As you’ll notice, real facts are used in the article. You might want to focus on them.
I wonder if any of these MLMers ever took out a piece of paper and simply drew a pyramid shape before they started their “business venture”… Then ask themselves, “where am I in comparison to the President/CEO & the top 1-5% earners on this pyramid”? …Most likely they’d put a dot (graciously) somewhere in the middle.
What they don’t realize is they will always be closer to the middle than anywhere else on that pyramid, cause’ the pyramid grows with each new MLM recruit, from the middle-downwards; exponentially.
Just imaging the bottom triangle getting way bigger while the top portion remains relatively the same. The top is the 1-5% earners which they will NEVER get even close to those types of numbers. Maybe I am wrong…just my perspective. It would motivate me to save money, raise the capital and invest in owning my OWN business.
Nerium has all but severed my relationship with my sister. I tried to warn her before she got into it. She flooded me with sales pitches and pitches from other Nerium reps. Next thing ya know, we are all but not speaking. I have heard similar stories many times over. I HATE Nerium and all that it stands for!
Lazy Man I really wonder who writes YOUR checks. You need to read up on the meaning of conflict of interest. It does not bother you if your boys at barenakedtruth have a big one but you and your buddies here love to label anything said good about Nerium as being biased bs from brand partners, so a conflict of interest and dismissed.
And this quote of yours : “No, the MLM health product doesn’t work. As many other people have mentioned here, there’s extensive Photoshopping of before and after pictures with Nerium.” As many people mentioned? Or accused? There is not proof anything is photoshopped. Are you calling me a liar too? Because my before and after photos show clearly positive results. Not photoshopped. Maybe Vogel thinks a hundred bucks is outrageous but women know many women pay more than that for creams (or filler, or botox). All these people accusing Nerium of photoshopping only shows how good this product is and why some of the sales people are over the top because the stuff works. Or at least it did on me. Looks like I had an eyelift. No ordinary skin cream here. As I said, I am not a bp I am a satisfied customer.
I’m not paid by any health or skin cream company… no conflict of interest here. You may see some ads that make it appear as if I’m endorsing a competing company, but they are run by Google AdSense and other 3rd party advertisers that choose ads without my knowledge or approval.
If anything, I have the opposite of a conflict of interest. I’m warning people not to get taken by the scam. If I’m successful in my message, it will mean fewer people to spread the message to. That’s fine by me, because I’d rather not write about MLM at all. I’d rather focus on personal finance topics that help move people forward rather than dealing with the negative scum that holds them back.
I don’t have any boys at barenakedtruth, never had any contact with them. I just saw their articles and realized they covered Nerium in extensive depth, so I didn’t need to re-invent the wheel.
And yes, for the most part the only time anyone says anything good about MLM is from a member of that cult. And yes, I’m comfortable calling it a cult… as we’ve seen with Kim’s comment and many before that they separate friends and family.
You should follow up the comments before you comment on the Photoshopping of pictures. The person’s own sister noticed it. I don’t think she’d “accuse” her sister. I think that is as close to “considerable proof” as you can get… especially when combined with the Ray Liotta issue.
No the people accusing Nerium of photoshopping does not in any indicate that the product works. Again, go back and read the link around “No, the MLM health product doesn’t work.” (Hint: http://www.aitse.org/no-your-mlm-doesnt-work/) A group of scientists and doctors asked if they could publish my research on dozens of MLMs on their website. There are at least a dozen psychological reasons why MLM distributors claim that products “work” when they don’t… and when you combine them, you get people claiming flavored water cured their kid’s autism. (Yes it really has happened.)
Also as the reputable doctor interviewed by CBS News reported there’s nothing that will simulate an eyelift besides Botox or an actual browlift… creams don’t cut it. That’s just the words of an unbiased expert. I’m surely going to take his words over yours, especially when you start off with an attacking opening paragraph where you get just about every possible piece of information you speculate on completely wrong.
Funny Stuff wrote “Linda I love how you defend nerium “My friend made millions and others nothing”. Most ofthem make nothing.”
So you love it why? I was merely telling the truth. Complete hustlers.sales types can clean up, but those kids of people are rare and can usually sell anything. My point was the stuff works. If you have not used it you can make all the snide comments you want but you cannot judge the product itself.
“My buddy a rep or brand partner pushes this like Crack on his friends. On Facebook it is almost all he talks about. Now if you happen to have a negative comment or a great question about the product or how they operate it gets deleted without a response “what are they hiding”.” Well let’s see how long trashing any product stays on a corporate website. these people are trying to make a living. Are some of them over the top? Yes, I would agree. But they are just people without real sales training so it is not surprising.
“One other question, does every nerium rep say something about not hanging with negative people in their life? I just took it as if you dont believe the crap I’m shoving down people throats then we can’t be friends. Has anyone else heard that from someone selling this crap?” No but reading your post I imagine you are negative about a lot of stuff besides Nerium. That goes for most of the people here bashing the company, the product and the people (their friends) who are trying to make a living. Wonder why Lazy Man doesn’t go after corporate america and its slave wages. Just saying.
Hmmm, crazy idea… why doesn’t the company provide real sales training and require that they complete a test before becoming a “brand partner”? I know if I was going to let someone push my business, and pay them for it, I’d want to make sure they are pushing a positive message and not constantly spamming their Facebook friends to make they annoyed at me. That’s not even Business 101, it’s basic common sense.
The only one Nerium has to blame for a poor salesforce is their own system that accepts everyone and expects those people to be great at training others. It has never worked and will never work. Also, the system mathematically is set up so that 99% of people will fail.
How would you like me to “go after corporate America and its slave wages.” The wages are much better in corporate America than many, many other countries. I find the term “slave wages” pretty offensive considering out country’s history. It’s not accurate to begin with (as mentioned above), but at least there are established minimum wage laws. I’ve reviewed many MLMs independent income disclosure statements and on average people make far less than half of minimum wage with no benefits such as health insurance or paid vacation.
So why not start with illegal pyramid schemes (using the FTC guidelines), that pay people less than half of minimum wage, and have never had a product proven to work in a clinical trial of any scientifically significant size (to my knowledge after researching dozens and dozens of them). Oh and there’s the whole untrained salesforce annoying people, thing to throw in there too. What’s there to defend here?
Linda, are you just a defender of any MLM like you attempted to do with the Yevo Scam before you called out for being completely wrong maybe a dozen times?
Lazyman- you rock!
It is so hard to find real information about Nerium. You can’t even find a Wikipedia page for them. What company isn’t on Wikipedia?
Can you remove a Wikipedia page by paying Wikipedia? I find it strange. I have friends on Facebook that annoy the hell out of me with their posts.
What true friend would knowing mislead friends for personal gain? Asshole friends I guess…
What’s more frustrating is how they flaunt the benefits, cars and paychecks.
Yeah I work a job and get a paycheck and company car too. Does Nerium think they are the first company to ever pay their employees (I mean distributors)?
I have never, ever posted my paycheck or bonus information anywhere. So tasteless
Alex, they are usually brainwashed… typical cult behavior. There are some articles on how to deprogram brainwashed MLM distributors/victims.
Linda Reynolds said: “Maybe Vogel thinks a hundred bucks is outrageous but women know many women pay more than that for creams (or filler, or botox).”
Fillers and Botox have reams of scientific data (multiple large-scale controlled clinical trials) demonstrating overwhelmingly that the products are highly effective and reasonably safe. The price of the product reflects those R&D costs. Your BS pyramid scheme products have no such evidence of efficacy or safety, and they are expensive merely because they support a pyramid scheme.
Linda Reynolds said: “Are you calling me a liar too? Because my before and after photos show clearly positive results. Not photoshopped.”
And where exactly are these B&A photos? Were they taken under the same controlled conditions (lighting distance, angle, time of day, other mitigating factors ruled out, etc.) by a trained unbiased clinician? Are the results (if any) typical of those who use the product or are they an outlier?
My guess is that you don’t have any B&A photos, and if I were in Vegas, I’d be quite comfortable placing a bet that you are in fact a liar. You’re a Nerium shill, so that’s a pretty good indication.
Princeton University has denied being partnered with Nerium International several times on their twitter feed. Yet just this morning, there are still many, many posts on Nerium’s Facebook page from brand partners raving about this wonderful “partnership”! It’s the MD Anderson Cancer Center partnership fabrication all over again. Outright misconception!!
I’ve found time and again that MLMs purposely create this misconception to drive their distributors to make these claims.
For example, MonaVie said drinking 2 ounces of its juice was similar to eating 13 fruits. They used a measure called ORAC. Companies made such crazy claims the USDA had to take down the database, because it was used for crazy marketing scams.
More directly: LifeVantage Lies to SEC, Investors, Consumers about “Harvard” Study.
It’s reason #728 why MLMs are evil.
Linda might find Nerium’s to be helpful and that fine and great. What sticks in my craw with Nerium is its MLM business plan that leaves anywhere from 95 to 97% of anyone who becomes a partner in it actually loosing money. I’m dying to go to a Nerium rah-rah recruitment meeting and bring this awkward little point up. If you have a business plan that only makes a profit for 5 to 3% of those who invest in it, you’ve got a scam going on.
Thanks Peter. The people at the rah-rah meetings are typically brainwashed that those 99% (it’s even over that in most MLMs) of people aren’t interested in being in the business, just signing up for the discount.
Here’s something, a bit too legalese for me but you might be interested:
http://www.law360.com/articles/638587/personal-jurisdiction-and-defamation-in-the-internet-age
Thank you Jay. That article focuses mostly on which courts should be used in a lawsuit across the internet (seems like a tough question to me), but the underlying harassment and defamation from Nerium sales-force against its critics is notable. I need to look into this further.
Thank you for writing this. I’ve been looking for sites to send to my friends to show them that it’s a scam. Now some of them have hopped over to Wealthy Affiliate Community. I didn’t find an article about them on your site. Would you consider writing one?
My criticism of Nerium is not about the product itself (however the terrible reviews everywhere speak for themselves-rashes, inflammation, etc).
My comment is about the alarming MLM/Network Markeging “cult mentality” of the brand partners (reps). I have lost 2 friends to the Nerium Cult. They are walking talking Nerium zombies. They are taught and brainwashed to:
– Stay away from “negative” people (regular people that don’t want to be in Nerium). They call them “losers” “dream stealers” “idiots that want to stay in their jobs”….
– Associate with their “Nerium Family” (yes, they actually use that wording to make it appear that it is a loving bond, however, when you decide to leave the cult, they are no longer your “family” and will shun and ignore you as the “loser” that “couldn’t make it in Nerium”) This has happened to 2 other friends of mine.
– Speak the same language/phrases over and over (this is typical cult behavior) such as “let’s get real!” “some will, some won’t..so what!” There are so many phrases that I see used over and over and over and over by the reps it is very scary.
– Spend every waking moment recruiting to have people sell underneath them. NO more regular outings to the supermarket, bank, etc. You must approach every stranger, friend, family member and “share the opportunity”…I was in Amway 20 years ago and it is the same thing. Their minds are on a constant loop to do this every day, as much as they can. No more visiting with friends for a regular dinner, bbq, etc. You MUST be recruiting at all times.
I listened to a brand partner giving “tips” on one of the most used tricks to recruit people over the phone. The trick is when leaving a message, say “HI! I HAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY AND WANTED TO”… (then hang up as if the call was disconnected). This way the person will call you back to see what you wanted to tell them.
Again, I lost 2 friends to this cult because I did not want to be involved (PLEASE GOOGLE MLM AND CULTS).
The angry, defensive posts here in response to this blog entry are all you need to know. It shows perfectly what I am talking about.
The Burdick v. Superior Court is actually the scientist (presumably from BareNakedTruth) suing Nerium for defamation, not the other way around. Basically, Burdick, who’s a consultant to Nerium wrote posts on his personal, but public FB page calling the scientists who gave Nerium a scathing review a bunch of unpleasant names and stating that they lost their medical license. The suit was dismissed in CA for a lack of jurisdiction because there is a lack of personal nexus (basically, a FB post written by a guy living in IL directly at someone living in CA is not enough for CA courts to make a ruling on the merits of the case).
The scientist probably has a good case against Burdick once they figure out which court to sue him in. However, if Nerium were to sue BareNakedTruth in any state, they most likely would lose since truth is an absolute defense to defamation.
Tiffany, this was my understanding of it as well.
What I find interesting is that the scientists have deleted their articles. I haven’t quite found a reason for why that would have occurred. It doesn’t seem like Nerium had any leverage to get the articles deleted and it certainly doesn’t seem like the scientists want to do Nerium any favors by deleting it.
Well, just because a lawsuit has no merit doesn’t stop a person from bringing it, unfortunately, and it is still costly to defend a lawsuit, merit-less or not. Perhaps the scientists just didn’t feel that it was worth their time, energy, and money to argue with the Nerium folks, who seemingly have a lot of time to flood the internet with positive reviews. Besides, for every MLM, or any similar operation that gets been shut down, many more pops up. Also, I don’t know if the scientists made any personal jabs at Nerium or any of the people connected with Nerium. For example, if you were to say, “Nerium is a scam” or “People selling Nerium are con-artists.” These statements can be seen as defamatory, and they can sue, and then it’s up to you to prove the truth of the statement, so it’s a tricky situation.
I know first hand about MLM companies bringing frivolous lawsuits. With the right Anti-SLAPP laws (they differ in every state) it can cost the companies a lot of money to bring about frivolous lawsuits.
It is my understanding that “scam” is word that is generally protected as a person’s opinion. The FTC even tells people to search for MLMs with the word “scam” (https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/multilevel-marketing), so it must be fine to give that opinion. Again, I have first hand experience with this as well.
At the level that the scientists have already argued, they could have just closed comments and moved on leaving the articles published. That would have saved them the time and energy of the debate without the need to take down the information. If they have statements that can be seen as defamatory, well, I think the vast truth of the piles of content they put out negates a cherry-picking of a couple of sentences even if they existed (they might not). The scientists conducted themselves professionally, which would go very far in saving them.
I’m so glad I found your blog. I’d been following the bare naked site and their nerium ad articles for the past year and was surprised to find out that they’re gone. Maybe they decided to (or were told to) remove their comments while their lawsuit is active. Did you know that nerium is now offering their latest miracle formula — nerium eht? A coffee bean extract for brain health. When will this company be put out of business?
I now know what happened with thebarefacedtruth blog
http://www.law360.com/articles/638587/personal-jurisdiction-and-defamation-in-the-internet-age
Thank, I subscribed for a few days just to read it, but my subscription ran out. I would love an interpretation beyond that, because I don’t think it explains it (maybe I missed it?)
The part about this company that really chaps my @ss is that this company provides zero training on the science of the skin. Zero. None. These “brand partners” are selling a product for a part of your body in which they know NOTHING about. I sell medical aesthetic products and have worked in Dermatology for over a decade. I have had and continue to have extensive training so that I can have a conversation about what my products can do for your skin and I can scientifically explain how they do it. And these idiots couldn’t even name the three layers of the skin. It is an insult to my entire industry and everyone in it who works so hard on a daily basis to continue our training and education so that we can provide the very best to our customers. It really p*sses me off!
Their latest product is for brain health/memory improvement and they’re claiming that it’s based on 20 years of research at Princeton. That’s as much BS as the Nerium AD non-connection to MD Anderson. When will this company be sued & shut down?
Find below the link to the first of many peer-reviewed publications on the biological efficacy of the active and proprietary extract in the Nerium skincare products:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26005354/#fft
As you may or may not know, these data can take years to collect and then even more to publish. Especially when patents and IP law is involved. I am a trained scientist and have worked professionally in research (neuroscience) for many years and therefore understand the importance of data to support clinical claims. I have lived with an analytical mind my entire life and can be as skeptical as it gets, but there is a big difference between skepticism and looking to poke holes in something. I feel there is so much of the latter that goes on because the company uses a relationship marketing model. Is there some agenda here? Or have you been burned by the industry? Just curious, because if your intent as the author is to present the facts and then to expand on your opinion of those facts, then I believe there is new information not included or discussed in your original article.
While skeptical, I was optimistic about Nerium, which is why I tried the products. I too thought it could be too good to be true, but was actually quite blown away by my results. And believe me, I was prepared to confirm failure… I was so rigid with my before and after pictures. I didn’t want to be someone who put out bogus or doctored pictures. Thank goodness I was proved wrong. I started evaluating the science behind the products and only after months of research and careful consideration, I chose to become a brand partner with the company. I was never asked to do so. I’ve never done relationship marketing, nor did I think I ever would. But beyond the data, I’ve been nothing but impressed by the quality people involved in the business, the quantity of pleased customers using the products, and the culture and philosophies of the company.
The clinical trials were indeed performed by a third-party contract lab. Like most clinical or contracted studies, they were likely funded by the company requesting the studies. In this case, Nerium. I’m curious, who you would you propose pay for such studies? The Rueters article you reference is interesting, but this is an issue of research ethics that applies to the industry at large rather than a specific question of Nerium’s business and research ethics. Nerium has disclosed in a tool available to the public that the third-party lab “conducted 8 different studies, consisting of 250 subjects of multi-ethnicities and both genders, ages 18-70.” I believe that one of Nerium’s strengths is that there is science and data behind the products, unlike most cosmetic skin care products that aren’t under regulatory rigor. So here we have clinical efficacy and biological efficacy.
For those that will continue to poke holes, there will never be enough, right!? Enough data, enough happy customers, enough philanthropy, enough success stories… But as a writer who puts what appears to be a lot of time and integrity behind their work, you may want to reevaluate some of the information in your article, which is no longer accurate in light of the data released this year.
Anonymous,
If you are going to claim to be a scientist and in neuroscience, why would you post anonymously? I guess your peers would laugh at you for supporting Nerium?
You seem to have quite a few problems in your comment. First you gave a link to “the first of many peer-reviewed publications.” I haven’t seen “many.” Can you please link us to all of them?
It does not take years to collect data like the kind presented in a study. Not even close. Patents and IP law do not lengthen the time it takes to collect and publish scientific data.
It is great that you understand the need to collect and publish scientific data. However as you know it takes many independent studies to show anything useful. Come back to me when they’ve got enough of them to convince the FDA that they can make legitimate claims.
It isn’t about who is supposed to pay for the study, it is that such company-funded studies are known to be biased and not independent.
As a great skin cream article in the Atlantic pointed out, “history tells us that a skeptical position is almost always correct. As with trendy diets, after a bit of time it almost invariably becomes clear that the alleged benefits associated with some new, exciting anti-aging beauty product can’t live up to the hype.”
I highly recommend you read that article to learn more about skin cream and science. You might want to pay special attention to part about the testimonials mentioned.
It seems like you are confused when you use the term “relationship marketing”… it is Multi-Level Marketing. I realize that MLMs have earned such a terrible reputation that they try to hide what they are calling it network marketing, direct selling, or, in your case, relationship marketing.
I have not be burned by the industry, I’m not dumb enough to get involved, especially since 99% of people lose money in MLM.
There was “enough data”, “enough happy customers”, “enough philanthropy”, and “enough success stories” with the “expensive flavored water” of MonaVie. Those were the creators words. History told the truth and the company foreclosed. The failure stories, charity washing, unhappy customers, and lack of reliable data showed that the salesmen and the company were selling a lie.
I’ve looked at dozens of MLMs and MonaVie’s case is the norm. If Nerium was a reputable company they wouldn’t choose a distribution model that appears to be a pyramid scheme (using the FTC guidelines).
I was involved with Nerium for about 6 months but stopped because I had some major moral dilemmas with this “business model.” If you can even call it that. The minute you sign up as a brand partner with Nerium (paid $500, $95 per month for product, $30 a month for a website and hundreds of dollars on sales tools), you’re encouraged to have a “Real Results Party” where you play a DVD which tries to convince your closest friends and family to also “sign up” aka, pay a lot of money to Nerium to join. How does it make any sense for me to sell my friends and family on a business that I’ve never done before, have had no success in and know nothing about?!
Turns out, there is no chance of success or any way to make any real money in Nerium without recruiting a huge downline. In my 6 month involvement with Nerium, I was never taught or trained about the product, nor was I encouraged to sell it. It was recruit, recruit, recruit, live your dreams, get rich, dream big. I felt like I was in a cult. I read Robert Fitzpatrick’s “False Profits:Seeking Financial and Spiritual Deliverance in Multi-level Marketing and Pyramid Schemes.” It blew me away, because the book described exactly what it’s like to be brainwashed into an MLM like Nerium. According to his book, what Nerium is doing is technically illegal. http://www.amazon.com/False-Profits-Financial-Deliverance-Multi-Level-ebook/dp/B0078W0U2G/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1433383874&sr=1-3&keywords=robert+fitzpatrick
Man on Top is a film exposing the MLM industry that I funded on Kickstarter http://www.manontopfilm.com/
and they describe exactly what seems to have happened to the scientists from Barefaced Truth. If you publicly question or criticize these companies, they just shut you down because they have so much money and power.
What’s really creepy is that Jeff Olson has decided that Nerium is a “happiness movement.” He says “Nerium occupies the biggest space of happiness.” He founded “Live Happy” magazine to go along with the Nerium culture and brainwashing. So if you’re involved with Nerium, you’re a happy person who fits in with all of the happy people but if you question us or don’t join, you’re “negative” or “unhappy.” I got so sick of being told I was “negative” for asking questions about the way this company was conducting itself. I’m not negative, I have morals and a brain that I use for my own thinking. I don’t conform to a cult easily. Whether or not the product works is irrelevant because being involved with this company has nothing to do with selling a product, you sell a “dream” or a “lifestyle” that for most will never come true then they are left to feel that it’s because they weren’t willing to do what it took to be successful and made to feel like a failure. I could have done very well with Nerium, I’m attractive, friendly and a hard worker but I could never ignore my own morals and business ethics for money. Once I heard on a Nerium training call, “Nerium is not a product sales business, it’s a people building business.” That was the nail in the coffin for me ending my Nerium involvement. Jeff Olson will be the next Nu Skin like he has set forth to be and Nerium will end up like Nu Skin, with law suits all over the world. Nerium is a product-based pyramid scheme. It was the creepiest, most bizarre experience of my life thus far.
Teresa, you are one of the few people connected with Nerium who has given an honest evaluation of how they operate. Nerium is making a ton of money off of the souls of the people they are manipulating into selling their useless product and dragging more people into the scam. By the way, Jeff Olson, MLM guru, was the person behind Prepaid Legal Services. As that scam was falling apart he latched onto Nerium. I’m sure it won’t be long before one of their minions attempts to rebut what you’ve said, but anyone with a brain knows exactly what they’re up to.
Teresa, thank you for your honest review. I really appreciate it.
Everyone else… I put a lot of work into reorganizing and rewriting a lot of this article. It attempts to cover some of the newer things that weren’t around when I wrote the article last year. That includes the clinical trial published last month and the Nerium EHT.
Hopefully you’ll find this an improved version of the previous review. That’s my goal.
Excellent Nerium overview. Their practices are so deceptive and Jeff Olson is one of the smarmiest people I’ve ever seen. Who in their right mind goes on TV and says their scientific expert said a “1 years-old (SIC)” can consume 400 bottles of Nerium and not be harmed? I think that as more questions are being raised about Nerium, Olson will take off and become a part of another MLM since it appears that being a snake oil salesman is about all he can do.
Lazy Man, you’re welcome. Thank you for writing and trying to educate the public about MLM’s like Nerium. I see them as a social cancer. I’m watching my child’s school parking lot become a network marketing recruiting session for Nerium, Advocare, etc. These businesses blur the lines between people’s business & personal lives and I think it’s unhealthy for friendships, families and communities.
Terri, I can’t agree that Nerium’s products are useless. For me, the night cream over many months, clogged my pores and caused me to break out terribly so I no longer use it. My mother in law, on the other hand, looks like she’s had a neck and face lift after 9 months of using Nerium. Their products do produce results for some people. Now is the product safe for long term use? I have no clue. As far as EHT goes, selling mind enhancement pills to people that cost $210 seems absolutely ridiculous to me. It’s a molecule from coffee and coffee has been studied in improving neurological functions and preventing neurological diseases like Alzheimers. A much cheaper option, just drink a cup of coffee everyday! My major issue with Nerium is the unethical business model and the cult like brainwashing they use to keep people “believing” and participating in the scheme. I’d rather purchase skin care from a business who is operating in a more ethical and legal manner. There are hundreds of great skin care products on the market that work. And you know what, we all age, we all get lines and wrinkles and sagging skin but I hope by the time I’m in my 50’s or 60’s, the things I’m doing with my life to better the world (not participating in a soul sucking MLM), my family, my life will be more important than my aging skin and I won’t care. Our society is too obsessed with looking young. We all age and it’s ok.
Hi there,
This was amazing! Thank you for saving me hundreds of dollars!!!!! I recently ended up leaving a position that I was pretty great at, but the structure itself was flawed, so I decided it was time to remove myself from such negativity. That said, I was unemployed. Mother of twins and no jobs. (Since, I’ve seen me leaving is the healthiest thing ever) but I digress.
I knew someone who was affiliated with Nerium, and was trying to get me to sign on, after I had sought her out though. I have a horrible problem, I love to work! :-) Weird right?? So I wanted to do something to add income and Nerium seemed like a good way for a stay at home mom to make money. Here’s the kicker. I have been working in skincare and cosmetic related fields for the last 13 years, so I ain’t no dummy. Pictures or no pictures, I know photoshop regardless of their claims and I know, truly know, top of the line skincare products that do change the aesthetic of the face with proper long term usage. There is no overnight magic, especially not from toxic garbage.
However, I decided to go to some of the meetings and group events just to really invest some time and thought behind what I was or possibly could be getting myself into. That’s where I started noticing little things. The major money making brand marketers were bad mouthing those who had questions or weren’t sure or on the fence about becoming part of the team. One image specifically stood out in my mind, still does, of a woman wearing a necklace and Nerium claiming to have changed her entire neck structure, also to the point of the size of the trap muscles on her shoulders and the inch width of her neck. (I also am a body building enthusiast) So I reached out to the source. After asking my direct “brand marketers” for detailed information, and got NOTHING of validity, I went to Nerium. Seriously, after NUMEROUS emails questioning their breakdown of income, their business plan, blah blah blah….. Not once did I get a response. Pretty great company! From the brand marketers you know what I heard, well it’s based on volume….. No dummy, even in volume you have a set idea of what you invest versus what you will profit. DUH!
So after major ranting on my part, I apologize, this article and the CBS report, and everything, truly, thank you for saving me money. :-) You’re better than GEICO!
Wow! I see a lot of people have obviously been introduced to a different Nerium that I have. My first experience with Nerium was attending a party and someone shared the product and the business. My husband and I both researched this company and I decided to join. I feel really bad for those of you that had no support whatsoever after joining, because that is not the NERIUM I joined. My team has experienced nothing BUT awesome support. If we have a question, it is answered immediately. We have training monthly/weekly which includes training on sampling the product down to what is in the product. Yes, the Nerium Oleander plant is in the product, but guess what???? There are several nerium plants and we DO NOT put poison in our product. And as far as pictures of results, photoshop? Really? My team uses our real results pictures from our own clients and ourselves. Do you know how many customers that are actually smiling and have confidence based on their Nerium results??? I do. If you would like to talk to them, contact me! My son who has eczema on his cheeks and arms has completely smooth skin now after only a few applications. He also has ADHD and takes a small dose of meds but with the EHT, he is more focused and on track now. We don’t promote for either, but as his mother, I tried it and it worked, he is much happier and so am I. This company has many doctors and estheticians as Brand Partners and many people who have been in skin care for several years as well.
Also, I find it funny when it says that you have to build a team to make money in this business….. well, Duh???? You recruit people who believe in this product and want to share it with others and the proof that it works is in the results that we see on our customer’s faces.
Also, what is wrong with LIVING HAPPY???? You’re downing a guy that is promoting happiness? A guy that agrees that this company makes people happy and it makes us BRAND PARTNERS happy to see people get their confidence back.
Teresa – the EHT will sell for $49 for a 30 month supply once it is released to the public. Thank you for sharing the results of your mother in law. I’m sorry you see the company as unethical. I share what I believe and the results I have seen and people purchase it with a 30 day $ back guarantee. They also offer a program to get your product for FREE, not too bad if you ask me. People are skeptical though and that is in any business. There is 100% training on these products and if you have met people that don’t go to training, then I am sorry.
I was in San Jose California in April 2015 when EHT was introduced BY scientists/professors from Princeton University. That is real. Are we partnering with Princeton? No. Do we have the patton on the research they developed into this EHT? YES!!!
Maybe these articles were shut down because they are comments from those that were not successful with this company or people that are not trying to Live Happy.
Everyone has their opinions, but why would you try to hurt people when you are NOT interested in the company???? I am happy and making some money for my family and getting great results from this product! I hope this helps with some that want REAL RESULTS from a REAL pattoned product. You cannot get a patton on an ingredient unless it does what it says it does. Keep looking on the internet and you will see and find all of the TRUE FACTS about this amazing product and company!!! Boom!
Lisa, you know that “building a team” is the same as “building an illegal pyramid scheme”, right? The words are different, but it is the same act. You can learn more on the FTC’s website. I also recommend you watch this video on pyramid schemes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVUUbEw_Pm8
There’s are also a few more good articles on Seeking Alpha. See this one and that one.
I have been writing about how to help people Live Happy for much longer than Nerium has been in business. Unfortunately, pyramid schemes cause pain, financial distress, and Living Sad. I want to help people avoid these things so that they can pursue legitimate opportunities and work towards financial freedom.
You need to learn a lot about patents before you call them “patton” and think that the US Patent Office actually ensures a product does what it says it does. You can get patents for ridiculous things.
HiddenFacts –
your facts are wrong. I earned the Lexus and yes you have to get a certain volume to qualify. You can lease or BUY the car, up to you. And it does NOT come out of your sales.
That is total bull!!!! Once you earn that volume, you easily keep it, and the car.
You don’t easily keep the volume. I’ve covered MLMs for years and every one I can think of had nearly everyone lose volume as the scheme imploded. Go look up MonaVie, ViSalus, LifeVantage, the list goes on and on.
When the people at the bottom don’t make money in MLM they quit (hence the documented 60-90% churn rate) and with that goes the volume.
Lisa, I don’t like how you assume that anyone who dislikes Nerium or this business is someone who is not trying to “live happy.” It proves the cult like mentality there, Nerium people are happy, anyone who speaks out against it is “tearing down your dreams” or “unhappy.” It’s simply not true. I’m very happy, thank you. Nerium ruined my skin after 5 months of use. I am now in the process of fixing it with a $20 organic serum that is amazing. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NY5NGPE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00
Retin A is the best thing you can put on your skin and it’s much cheaper than Nerium.
Please don’t make people who don’t agree with this business feel like they’re not happy enough or something. Participating in Nerium actually made me very unhappy. It took time away from my family, made me feel like a con artist in public trying to lure people in, and made me insecure about my skin after Nerium clogged my pores so badly. I saw the most materialistic & deceitful Facebook posts by people claiming to make more money than they really do to get FB friends to join their business. Good for you that you’re enjoying it but there is another side to what goes on. Every human on this Earth is trying to find happiness and for me, it will never be found in an MLM.
This L.Jenkins is such a character. Many of the words & phrases she uses, sound very close to the MLM cult-like character and mentality. I would love if someone could direct me to an online psychological study/book relating to the type of people who get recruited, recruit others and follow the MLM type-scheme religiously. Would be interesting, because my brother is completely suckered into AdvocareMLM and he sounds like one of those typical Robotic-like Pyramid salesperson…it totally scares me.
This is a “must read” for anyone seriously considering the Nerium “study” that recently came out:
http://io9.com/i-fooled-millions-into-thinking-chocolate-helps-weight-1707251800
[Editor’s Note: I was away on vacation when this comment came in. All comments are moderated so they went to the holding queue until I could get back. Now I see so much to respond to, I will do it in-line…]
Wow, how and why does this discussion on Nerium turn all direct sales companies into “illegal pyramids” without proper information.
[Editor’s Response: I don’t turn all direct sales companies into “illegal pyramids.” Don’t confuse MLM with Direct Sales. People can sell magazines direct door-to-door and I certainly wouldn’t call it an illegal pyramid scheme. It is selling directly with zero recruitment, just like people do on Ebay and yard sales. Clearly they aren’t “pyramids” or pyramid schemes. Also please don’t confuse pyramids with pyramid schemes. Pyramids are structures in Egypt or a geometrical shape. Pyramid schemes are an illegal business built on recruiting.]
The same thing you are accusing of MLM’s. Then you attack spelling when you’ve misspelled, btw everyone does in posts at some point.
[Editor’s Response: I only attack spelling when someone attacks my spelling and uses bad spelling to do it. Well sometimes I do it, if they have 5 or more spelling errors in a single comment along with grammar errors and illogical thinking. If the person leaving the comment gives me some reason to believe they are reputable (being cited in popular media as I have) or some kind of competence I give them the benefit of the doubt.]
I accidently created a successful direct selling business beginning in 1985, with constant sales and sponsoring growth through 2008-09 with the economic disaster. The direct selling business is like any other opportunity. You can make bad judgements and make mistakes, I did. But I understood that in any business, with or without a store front that it takes 3 to 5 years to be profitable. That was before the internet, things have changed.
[Editor’s Response: Err, it is “accidentally” (sorry couldn’t resist after the last point.) No one accidentally creates a successful MLM business. The failure rate is over 99% and this includes people who are trying hard. In 1985 people didn’t have access to the Internet to do the research and realize that MLM was a scam. Yes things have changed.]
Since 2009, I have worked for 3 small companies, leaving each due to moving. These companies are all considered successful. They paid me little, even though I had skills and gave a quality of work that deserved more. The owners were awful, treated employees with disrespect, which causes a trickle down effect on the employees that causes back biting and just an in general messy place to work. My point? There are pitfalls in everything.
[Editor’s Response: I’ve been involved with companies that would be considered similar in every way you describe. I didn’t run out to support pyramid schemes. I went out to create a business that spread information that helps people. Yes, there are pitfalls with that as well. However, in the end, I’m not running an illegal pyramid scheme. One doesn’t attempt to justify a Ponzi scheme or pickpocketing people by saying, “There are pitfalls in everything.” I reject your point.]
However, you do have to choose what works for you. It is true there are legitimate direct selling companies that you can work smart at that will make you rich. But, it doesn’t happen overnight.
[Editor’s Response: It is most definitely not true. First, I haven’t been able to find a legitimate MLM company. Yes yard sales, ebay and other direct sales can make money if you are smart, but that’s a different discussion not related to MLM. In any case, “working smart” in MLM often means spreading disinformation such as the study that Nerium has presented its salesforce, but a previous commenter has pointed out fails any significant scientific analysis.]
I took 10 years to become very successful, but I worked 24/7 and my husband and sons helped too. True there are not hours set, but there are hours. The company that I was successful in for 25 yrs and I still represent is Longaberger Baskets. I have friends selling Nerium, but declined their offers for one reason. I’m not a sales person, I am a person that can share an honest product and give stellar customer service and I also spent endless hours training and supporting my successline… funny no one gives much of a hoot for either of those anymore. Maybe the unrealistic desires of people are the real issue.
[Editor’s Response: I have not heard of Longaberger Baskets before. Selling baskets to people is very different than the lotion and potion MLM such as Nerium that I typically cover. There’s objective quality of the feeling the baskets and know you are getting some kind of quality. Lotions and potion MLMs put a focus on testimonies that may be placebo effect, pay for terribly designed “scientific” studies as part of a confidence trick, and lead distributors to make illegal medical claims.
I think you hit on some of the differences. It doesn’t make sense to join an MLM company and spend 10 years with your family working 24/7 to “make it.” I have to wonder how many people lost money in the effort.]
I have to admit I found both the article and the comments very interesting on this subject.
There are a ton of opportunities out there, Nerium being just one of them.
I happen to believe that while most of the companies do have a cult like mentality and a lot of people flat out fail with them, that’s not necessarily a knock on those companies.
First of all the Army brain washed the hell out of me, and damn near everyone else who goes through it, Why? Because in order to be successful in doing whats asked of you, you HAVE to buy in.
Your job, will brainwash you to come in and get that check in exchange for working in their pyramid (which you are most undoubtedly not the apex)
This is a sales job, and as such it’s commission based, so is selling cars or insurance, the difference being you’re customers are selling too. Some companies allow you to write your own orders some don’t, what I purchase contributes towards my monthly volume, and the salesperson who brought me in gets a small commission. Pretty straight forward and so far sounds like any other sales job.
There are products, that for some people work really well, and for others either don’t or have adverse effects. That’s true of most products, “These annuities will take great care of you long term, as long as you make the payments and continue to grow that base amount.” Now were talking leverage.
I want to be able to recruit and have as many people sell for me as I can, why, leverage obviously. Basic business. No one makes the climb to the top alone.
The more people selling for me the more I can reach and make.
Why do people fail then? Training and attitude usually. Just like any job you will have, the person or group you are under matters, If you’re under someone who drank that kool aid until there was nothing left to drink, but doesn’t know how to generate leads or close sales, well what are you’re results gonna be? Kinda obvious.
However, you get into a group with an upline who is all about teaching you how to run your business, how to generate leads, how to close said leads, and everything that happens before, after, and in between, whats your success gonna be?
Who knows because at the end of the day it’s still all on you. This is why you drink the kool aid. This is why most of these companies have the get your friends and family involved structure, hell my insurance training had the same mindset.
Thats another point, a big part of MLM structures is personal development. Most of these people aren’t business owners or entrepreneurs, they’re Joe and Sally Q who havent a clue how the game plays. They need to believe that not only is there a way out from the monotony of their day to day life, but also that they can learn and do whats necessary to become successful. Personally, I came from a poor family and my thinking always has been “I’m gonna struggle financially.” I may or may not come up with a revolutionary idea that changes the world and makes me a lot of money. Luckily, there are others who have created products, businesses, etc, that I can sell and change my status in life.
I don’t want to sell cars, I want something family friendly I can do from home. MLM hits that perfectly.
So you wanna trash MLM that’s on you my friend, you don’t think it can work, you’ve done all this research into why they don’t work, that’s cool. There are a lot of skeptical people out there, my wife is a huge skeptic, and to a degree skepticism is healthy. I respect your right to complain, but keep in mind, someone may come on here with a brilliant career ahead of them in sales. One of these MLM’s could completely change their lives, yet they got dissuaded from your negativity. I am choosing to use that word, because as you yourself stated, you’ve chosen not to get involved with any MLM companies.
Research is great, real world experience is much better.
To anyone who may be dissuaded from a career in MLM or sales, after reading this blog just keep in mind Lazyman admitted to not joining any MLM’s and never would, obviously his experience is nothing to base your decision off of. Your success depends on your ability to develop Sales Skills, then you join whatever company you want, some are shady some aren’t. Develop your sales skills though, you won’t have any of these issues in your career.
Jay, you seem to be making a lot of bad comparisons rather than actually talking about the topic.
There’s a huge difference between MLM brainwashing and standard corporate morale meetings. First everyone in the company makes money, at least minimum wage. (If you take a commission job where you aren’t making minimum wage, just quit, very simple). The brainwashing is documented as recently as in this magazine article just a few days ago. They have annual gatherings with themes like “Believe.” There is even an MLM movie by the name “Believe.”
Wouldn’t have Bernie Madoff wanted you to “believe” he wasn’t running a pyramid scheme? Didn’t Enron want people to “believe” their company was legitimate?
There’s a huge difference between MLM and selling insurance. The difference isn’t that the customers are selling too. It’s that people get credit for sales to people who actually work at the company. There can be ZERO sales to customers, simply all recruiting others into the brainwashing that they too can recruit enough people. We’ve seen it with many other companies. And if you look at the top earners, they don’t seem to be selling anything at all, just collecting money from recruited people. That’s the FTC’s guideline for an illegal pyramid scheme, so maybe you want to understand that in greater detail.
You also confuse a hierarchical organization, which doesn’t have a significant recruiting component to make money, with a pyramid scheme, by calling them both “pyramids.” This is how MLM has brainwashed you. Maybe you should understand that Corporate America is Not a Pyramid Scheme
Don’t compare an unproven supplement/skin cream to a mathematical/financial product like annuities. We don’t know if Nerium supplements/creams have ever worked for a single person. It could be placebo effect. The expert on CBS said that there was no science in the cream. You are essentially trying to say that because horses exist unicorns do too. It is a senseless and logically irresponsible.
Jay said,
You didn’t describe leverage, you described a pyramid scheme. If nothing else, you should see that this business doesn’t work because there are already tens of thousands competitors out there selling product. The system is designed to create competitors to you very, very easily. People can’t sell for you, because all the demand is met by all those competitors. The only real demand is for the business idea of building a pyramid scheme.
Jay said,
No, it is neither training or attitude. Failure is Mathematical Certainty. If you want to blame training then the MLM system is broken, because it puts people into training who have no experience training where a company could hire experienced people to train salespeople. You don’t create an experienced firefighter force by telling firefighters to just recruit others and do their best to tell them how to fight fires. You don’t leave it up to chance that someone is going to fail and die in a fire because they might not have been trained properly.
However, this all goes back to the obvious that failure is mathematically guaranteed. As said here, “All one need to do is imagine an island economy with 500 people and play out what happens to the economy for shake mix if all of the people on the island try to play the game. Distributor #1 makes most of the money. Those who find out about the game too late can’t fill out their downlines and so they fail in their pursuit of the ‘business opportunity’.”
Jay said,
It isn’t “all on you” any more than hitting 10 straight holes-in-one in golf is “all on you.” Circumstances dictate that well over 99% of people will fail. This is true even if you are the best to ever play the game of golf. So don’t drink the kool aid that it is about you.
Jay said,
Well they then should be directed to my website, because I give that information. It’s time-tested and I don’t charge them a dime. I’m not going to put them on a hamster wheel going nowhere paying $100-200 a month at something that is designed to cause failure. I’ll give them belief in a system that is mathematically guaranteed to work. (It’s called saving and investing money.)
It’s not that I don’t “think” MLM CAN work. I know it that it mathematically CAN’T work for the system of salepeople as a whole. It’s not negative to be against fraud and pyramid schemes… that’s very positive.
Sorry, but External Perspective can be better than Real Life Experience. Keep in mind that people with the real life experience are financially biased by being paid to support their position. If a drug dealer has experience with cocaine, are you going to take his word for it? Of course he wants to sell you on it. Are you going to say, “Wait, this person makes a lot of sense, but because he’s not a cocaine-addict, I’m going to ignore the advice.”
Well, I wrote a long reply to this but, why?
Armchair qb’s don’t win the game.
Excellent response to Jay.
Jay, MLM companies don’t win this game either.
I covered MonaVie in 2008 when it was big, but it looks to be foreclosed upon. I covered LifeVantage in 2010 or 2011 and the company went from being worth $300 or $350 million to ~$50 million today. Go check out iJango and Zeekler to see how they’ve done.
Looks like Nerium is already on the way down. The company will make money on the backs of failed distributors. MLM distributors make less than minimum wage on average and end up having to put more than what they do make back into buying product to continue to “believe.”
I have been in the pharma/biotech industry for over a decade and I read studies all day every day. I can tear them apart within minutes. I read this “study”. It only took seconds. This will NEVER be published by a respectable journal it is so flawed. No P-value is listed. They don’t say what kind of blinded study it is and the bias is so obnoxious it is embarassing. No self respecting company with “real science” would ever put this out. Show me a triple blinded study with over 1,000 subjects in a multiple center design, with a P-value under .05%. Have the results measured with a cutometer or a corneometer. Then have it published in the JDD, the JAAD or any other reputable Dermatology Journal. Until then don’t believe any “study” they put out.
Lazy,
Jay is the type of rube that these parasites prey on. He truly “believes” that if people buck up and work hard, then success becomes merely a matter of perseverance. What he fails to understand is the illogical business that is the essence of recruitment driven mlm. He is incapable of understanding the basic math and the fallacies of the “opportunity” pitch.
I can’t prove it, but I think that the lifecycle of these MLM schemes is growing shorter and shorter with each new ugly beast. Why? INFORMATION. Information and insight is like sunlight to a vampire. Information like what Lazy Man offers cannot be snuffed out. Once these and other honest and informative sites gain traction the Nerium zombies will gradually lose the power to infect others.
Here is how we’ll begin to see the beginning of the end: when the number of new brand partners being recruited is equal to the number of people quitting the business. Churn is a hungry dragon that will devour this business and send the upline rats scurrying to the next chance to take advantage of the poor, ignorant, and naive masses.
Brad,
I agree that Jay is the rube, but I think it worth putting the magnifying glass on showing why he’s wrong about MLM. His response of (paraphrased), “Why bother to respond?” speaks volumes. He bothered to spend a ton of time to write his original rebuttal, but when it is shown to be complete wrong in every way, he takes his ball and goes home. I’ve seen it a hundred times in MLM conversations.
I’m with you that the lifecycle of MLMs is getting shorter. They are getting more and more desperate. It’s why you see them starting to target the college market with energy drinks. It is a market of people who can’t afford to pay the outrageous premiums of the products, but they go there because the recruiting is easy.
It seems like MLM companies are turning to frivolous lawsuits to silence people spreading the information. I’ve seen it happen again and again. It’s happened to me as well.
http://www.businessforhome.org/2015/06/nerium-suspends-top-earners/
I’ve been wondering why the BareFaced Truth articles had disappeared and then today I came across this piece on Law360. Not sure how it will all end up but it is almost certainly why the articles are down, for now anyway.
http://www.law360.com/articles/638587/personal-jurisdiction-and-defamation-in-the-internet-age
I thought the same thing Petey, but the BareFacedTruth people seem to be suing the Nerium people (distributors included), so it isn’t quite clear to me why they’d take down their articles.
This whole thing is hilarious. I lived in San Diego in 2008 and our neighbor tried to get us to sign for Nikken – same kind of crap basically. I am not one of those people who buy into pyramid schemes though so she was quite upset that we weren’t gonna participate. People in those types of companies have no soul in my opinion and are only interested in leaching off of their friends and family. No exceptions.
Srebrina, I was one f the unfortunate ones who got conned into he Nikken scheme. It was my introduction into MLMs. Are they even around anymore?
Hey Lazy Man, thanks for the article. I was conned into going to the Nerium Canadian launch with the promise of free drinks and food. Didn’t get either- just a sales pitch for more “financial freedom”.
Unfortunately, several of my friends DID sign up for Nerium after seeing that presentation so I’ve been seeing nonstop Nerium facebook posts for the past year.
I have something to add to the Princeton and Nerium affiliation. I followed the San Jose conference closely and saw some videos up on YouTube (most have been taken down since then), and it seems that this Princeton connection was one if the main attractions of the conference. Honestly, it’s hilarious how they tried using Princeton to add to their already non-existent list of credentials. Here’s a video of Jeff Olson teasing the audience at the San Jose conference: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PoDgsyT95oE. Yes, he does mention the Signum Biosciences partnership, but you can get the vibe that he’s trying to twist it as a Princeton partnership. There was another video of him telling the audience how Princeton students receive free alcohol if they show the bartender their Princeton student card. If Jeff Olson ever went to university, he’d know about pre-paid student cards, but then again, I tried researching where he went for university and came up with nothing. It’s not even written on the back of his brain washing book, The Slight Edge.
Thanks Catherine, that video shows why all the distributors were Tweeting at Princeton about the partnership. I’ve added that to the article.
It is very clear to me that they are trying to mislead people with Princeton’s credentials and I’ve seen this in numerous MLMs.
Sad…
I truly feel saddened by the life that Lazy Man must live. To try and find negatives where there aren’t any.
Did you attempt to be a partner with Nerium and fail? That is the only reason I could see why and where all your negativity stems.
Maybe, just maybe, if you had your facts straight about Nerium you might actually sound intelligent. However, that is not the case.
Nerium is NOT affiliated with Princeton and has never claimed to be affiliated with Princeton. What it does claim, there was research performed in Princeton labs by Dr Jeffrey Stock and Maxwell Stock, co-founders of Signum BioScience.
Nerium did not create or discover EHT, Nerium is marketing EHT for Signum BioScience.
Sad…
To compare NAE8 to Monavie, well, that is sad too.
Maybe in truth, this is possibly more funny than sad.
It is sad how Nerium distributors need to attack others to make themselves feel good.
I don’t try to find negatives, everyone in the world knows about the negatives of MLM. Pretty much every legitimate publication has covered it. Specifically the negatives with Nerium are pretty clear and I think very well covered in this article.
You might as well call someone negative for pointing out the negatives of pickpockets. There’s no negativity in calling out fraud, it’s positive to help consumers.
Nerium has most definitely heavily implied and lead distributors believe they are affiliated with Princeton. Otherwise Nerium would take the high road and simply not mention Princeton at all. It’s not like they mention Stanford which they also have no affiliation with. Is Nerium going to highlight all the universities they have NO affiliation with like Princeton, because we’ll be here all day going through them.
I think I covered that Nerium didn’t create EHT (it wasn’t something to “discover” like fire) in the article. If it wasn’t clear, let me know and I’ll see if I can make that section a little stronger.
Nerium is now backing off of the Princeton claims much the same way they had to back away from the MD Anderson claims. Once the fraud is discovered they try to make you think they never said it. I suppose it must be nice to live in the delusional world of Nerium but for me, I’d rather know the truth and live in my happy reality where I’m not defrauding other people.
Terri,
Many of the Brand Partners still haven’t gotten the memo that Nerium has started to “clarify” its initial EHT launch PR suggesting a Princeton Partnership. I still see Facebook posts as recent as 10 days ago where Brand Partners play the Princeton card to try to gain credibility.
Honestly, I wish I had a more meaningful way to educate my sister who has been swallowed up by Nerium. She earned her Lexus “bonus” yet doesn’t know how to even read a profit and loss statement. This is going to end very badly for lots and lots of people. When it all comes crashing down there is a little part of me that will take delight in those in the upper levels of this Pyramid scheme who knowingly are taking advantage of the ill-informed desperate masses.
Brad,
I have a friend (and her husband) who are equally caught up in it. I know Nerium uses deceptive practices, I’ve seen it for myself, but the Brand Partners are so blinded by what they’re being told that they won’t accept the truth. I hope your sister doesn’t get too destroyed by it.
No one from Nerium can explain how it works because they get no training on products, ingredients, or even skin anatomy. They’re just told how to take deceptive photos to sell their crap. It’s an insult to have people selling a skincare product who couldnt tell you one thing about the skin. I guarantee there isnt one nerium robot who could even tell you the layers of the skin without looking it up. I would LOVE to see any of them answer Brad’s questions. But they never will. Because they can’t.
These have all been excellent responses to the anonymous mlm employee.
Lazy Man, I have a question. Earlier in this thread you pointed out that a person claiming to be a scientist was lying because he posted anonymously, yet you seem to have gone out of your way to be anonymous on this website as well.
Your name is never used, there’s no information about who you personally are in your about section, and you’ve even gone so far as to purchase this domain using Domain Privacy from GoDaddy under the moniker DomainsbyProxy in order to hide your identity. Are you worried that your peers would laugh at your bad writing and one-sided narratives?
You probably should go back to read the posts in the thread again. I don’t think I said that the scientist was lying.
I was simply saying that if you are going to hold yourself as an expert scientist, you should prove that you are indeed an expert scientist for us to take you seriously. The commenter was asking us to take his word as gospel with no 3rd party supporting evidence. A 3rd grader could have written the same comment.
On the other hand, I’m not holding myself as an expert scientist. I point to reputable 3rd party information that you can review such as CBS News’ coverage. I point to two reputable scientists (who run BareFaced Truth) who have given their name and credentials as experts. I have pointed towards the FTC guidelines on pyramid schemes. I have pointed to an excellent video on pyramid schemes by Pershing Square. I have pointed to Nerium’s problems with Ray Liotta and Princeton.
In short, I’ve aggregated information from a variety of reputable sources. It doesn’t matter if I’m a space octopus from the planet Kalmar… it doesn’t change CBS News’ coverage or the FTC’s guidelines one bit.
The scientist was relying solely on credentials that he chose not to provide. I rely no credentials, just my own interpretation of information I’ve been able to find on Nerium.
My name is indeed used on this website. If you can’t find it, you only your own laziness to blame.
As for why I purchased this domain with a privacy, it is simply the way personal finance authors work and have worked since 2006 when I bought the domain. You can go back and read this article about personal finance bloggers such as “Nickel”, “Flexo”, “FMF”, “Mighty Bargain Hunter”, etc. The idea was that people could be free to talk about their income, their net worth, even problems that they have with their boss because they are anonymous. I thought it was a great idea and went with it.
In fact, there are more than 150 bloggers here who have published their net worth using the same pseudonym approach.
Maybe next time, you should use some common sense to understand when credentials are important. While you are at do a little research to understand the industry before you make false suppositions.
[This comment by Peter came as a reply through my email to Anonymous MLM Employee…]
“I can’t let this one pass! One-sided narratives? Criticism by its nature is one-sided. When an organization such as Nerium is criticized, the appropriate response from the organization and it’s representatives is to educate and correct the misunderstanding of its critics. But notice how Nerium and it’s shills, such as this poster, can only engage in ad hominem attacks because there is no correction to make. There is no further understanding needed. Nerium like all MLM companies promote “financial freedom” and in theory it seems like it can come about. That’s the buzz that hooks people in. But all you have to do is look at the financial disclosure statement of any MLM company and you will see that around 98 % of the “brand partners” make no money. So, Mr ‘One-sided Narrative’ please address this rather difficult fact that Jeff Olsen cannot explain away. In Nerium 5 people make over $800,000 per year off the backs of the brand partners. I wonder who these people are? Financial freedom, absolutely, but only for the financial hucksters like Mr. Olsen and his cronies that exploit the goodwill and innocence of good people.”
– Peter
Anonymous MLM employee,
Instead of criticizing LazyMan for his writing, why don’t you impress us with your writing skills and inform us as to why Nerium is not a scam? I’ll even give you some prompts to get started.
How does Nerium work? What is the science behind how it smooths wrinkles?
How does the Canada formulation work since it does not contain Olenader?
How much of Nerium sales is truly retail to people who are not distributors vs distributors?
What percentage of the money you’ve made — income and bonuses less your expenses — came from recruiting other distributors and selling them inventory or other items to get started?
Describe why Nerium is not a Pyramid Scam based on the FTC definitions of a pyramid?
Why does Nerium give a Lexus Bonus rather than a cash bonus? If I already own a Lexus why do I need another?
Not gonna hold my breath, but I would LOVE to see just ONE of these squirmy Nerium distributors try to answering Brads questions with an educated, honest facts. (these questions we thoughtfully crafted and worded perfectly). However, I suspect more attacks. I sense we are really on to something here on this forum….Next Advocare!
I’m really impressed by the response here. I almost didn’t publish Anonymous MLM Employee’s comment since he used an obviously fake email.
I’ve already covered Advocare. See it here.
Lisa Jenkins, Patented is spelled like this. You should really know how to spell key words that are involved with a product that you’re selling.