[Note: The VP of Business Development, David Ciemny, has left a comment of which I responded to. On January 17, 2012 he has promised a response, but has not delivered yet. I have reminded him twice via email and he hasn’t responded to those requests either. I wouldn’t recommend aligning yourself with a company with such irresponsible management.]
Today I’d like to tell you about a scam that I find interesting. I find it so interesting because seemingly intelligent people fall for it. It’s not like the Nigerian Prince scam that we can all joke and laugh about, because it is so ridiculous that no one knows anyone who actually falls for it.
This scam about a fruit juice. Here are a few things about it:
There’s a product of blended fruit juices – exotic fruit juices. It comes in a 750ml wine bottle that looks more suited for expensive. That bottle retails for around $50 and the suggested serving size is 2 oz., twice a day. The theory is that it packs a bunch of antioxidants.
The company has a scientific board of doctors to give the product an air of legitimacy. The company also puts a large focus on its charity contributions in an effort to market the company.
The company touts the patents it has. Many of its customers don’t realize that patents are granted for ridiculous things – things that don’t necessary work.
The business model is a multi-level marketing one. It is very complex and includes uses a bunch of confusing terminology. Some of this terminology involves distinguishing amongst sales of Personal and Downline creating a point system of PV (Personal Volume) and GV (Group Volume). There are at least 9 “ways to earn money!” marketing designed to nab the suckers who think that more ways to earn money is better.
If a distributor wishes to participate in most of these ways to make money, they are required to purchase a case of 4 bottles each month at a cost of around $140 to them. In this way, the company ensures that everyone involved in the pyramid has subscribed to paying them $140 a month or $1700 a year with the renewal fee to be a distributor each year.
The compensation plan allows for a luxury car bonus. While that sounds great, if a distributor doesn’t maintain the sames level (replacing people who quit after they realize that they aren’t making money), the distributor is on the hook for the car lease themselves – a financial burden that many find out the hard way.
There is an annual get together for all distributors that they have to pay for out their own pocket (traveling costs and hotel are extra). This is big win for the company because they get more income from its distributors who effectively pay for their own brainwashing.
The compensation plan ensures that around 99% of people will never make money in the business. That’s why the constant motivational meetings are necessary.
Did you Guess who the Company is?
If you are familiar with Lazy Man and Money and you probably think I’m writing another article about MonaVie. After all I’ve written enough about MonaVie over at MonaVie Scam to prove that MonaVie is a grossly overpriced product, with little nutritional value, wrapped in a poor business opportunity that appears to be an illegal pyramid scheme, which is itself wrapped in illegal medical claims, supported by nonsensical “scientific” studies, and tied to a fraudulent charity.[Update: MonaVie appears to have been foreclosed upon according to my reading of the the Salt Lake City Tribune.]
However, this is really an article about Jusuru. Don’t be upset, you didn’t really have a way of knowing which juice scam I was referring to. In fact, I almost didn’t write about Jusuru, but a friend convinced me that it was probably worth it to warn consumers before it got along too far. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, right?
I could have gone into a lot more detail about the individual aspects of Jusuru, but in many cases you may wish to read that MonaVie website and substitute “MonaVie” for “Jusuru” just like you could have with most of this article.
Update: It appears that Vogel was kind enough to find a ton of dirt on Jusuru. Some of the things at that link:
- The President coaching distributors about how to walk the line of making fraudulent medical claims
- The fact that neither of the two people credited with inventing it are scientists
- The previous scammy products they’ve been a part of in the past
- Dr. Brady and Mike Lattuca participating in what sounds to me illegal medical claims about the product.
- … and much much more! See just like MonaVie
Meet the New Juice Scam. Same as the Old Juice Scam. Heed the The Who’s words and you Won’t Get Fooled Again.
Let’s Get into Jusuru for Real
I had presumed that if I showed people how Jusuru is a MonaVie copycat in just about every way, they’d be wise enough to understand that they just said, “Hey look, they are getting people to pay outrageous prices for fruit juice… we can do the same thing.” Clearly there are still a subset of people, likely Jusuru distributors, who aren’t able to make that mental connection.
With that being the case, I thought I’d slowly bring out a few more things about Jusuru:
Resveratrol as a “Star” Ingredient
For one thing, I couldn’t find Jusuru make a clear claim to how much resveratrol is in the product. There do say “one serving size (2 oz) contains the same amount of resveratrol as in four full bottles of red wine” (Source), but not all bottles of red wine contain the same amount of resveratrol, so which four bottles of red wine is Jusuru using? Using this chart below we can see there is a big difference in wines with some having 5 times as much as others:
Four bottles of red wine is 3 liters (a wine bottle is 3/4s of a liter or 750ml), so to have as much resveratrol as 4 bottles of red wine, it could have as little as 3mg per 2 ounces (0.99 * 3 liters) or as much as 15mg per 2 ounces (5.01 * 3 liters) of reseveratrol. I found NutriGold Resveratrol GOLD, 500mg, 120 Capsules on sale for less than $25 (as of this writing: 11/17/2012). A single pill will give you somewhere between 33 and 166 times the amount of resveratrol in a Jusuru serving (depending on their fuzzy claim of the resveratrol in wine and not specifying specific quantities). In any case there are about 12 servings of Jusuru in a bottle, so a single pill is worth anywhere from 3 to nearly 14 bottles of Jusuru. If you want to get your resveratrol, you can either spend $25 for those 120 pills or you can spend $14,400 (3 bottles/per pill * $40/per bottle * 120 pills) to $67,200 (14 bottles/per pill * $40/per bottle * 120 pills) to get it from Jusuru.
However, before you spend the $25, $14,000, or the $67,200 on resveratrol the Mayo Clinic says, “most of the resveratrol in the supplements can’t be absorbed by your body.”
While Jusuru spends a good portion on it’s website marketing resveratrol (Source) as a solution to the French Paradox, more research shows “the authors of a 2003 study concluded that the amount of resveratrol absorbed by drinkers of red wine is small enough that it is unlikely to explain the paradox” and that “some researchers have questioned the validity of this paradox altogether, particularly the connection between natural saturated fat consumption and cardiovascular disease. This view has recently received broad support through the results of the Nurses’ Health Study run by the Women’s Health Initiative. After accumulating approximately 8 years of data on the diet and health of 49,000 post-menopausal American women, the researchers found that the balance of saturated versus unsaturated fats does not affect heart disease risk, while the consumption of trans fat results in significantly increased risk of cardiovascular disease.”
It’s also telling how easy Jusuru Canada replaced resveratrol that is in Jusuru’s USA product. From Jusuru Canada’s FAQ (PDF), “The difference between the two is that the Canadian formulation will contain all ingredients except resveratrol, lycium, jujube, and nopal. We have, however, replaced these ingredients with additional mangosteen, which has proven similar anti-inflammatory benefits as resveratrol. This will not change the efficacy of the product in any way. In fact, Jusuru Life Blend’s power comes from BioCell Collagen and antioxidants that are derived from a blend of superfruits.”
It is of note that Jusuru makes the claim that “it will not change the efficacy of the product in any way.” Since there are no clinical trials, the only way they can be sure is by admitting that Jusuru has zero efficacy and hence the change keeps it’s efficacy at zero. Furthermore, if resveratrol can be replaced without changing the efficacy of the product, it is logically not a critical ingredient.
Lastly, it is particularly telling that Jusuru uses the marketing term Superfruit rather than a more scientific term.
In conclusion, I find the following problems with Jusuru’s marketing of resveratrol:
- Reservatrol is not proven to do anything and it may not do anything.
- Most of the reservatrol in supplements can’t be absorbed by the body
- Jusuru’s marketing of reservatrol in tying it with the French Paradox only tells a portion of the story… a portion that my not be related to the French Paradox at all… even if the French Paradox exist… which it might not.
- The amount of resveratrol in Jusuru is so minimal that getting an equivalent amount elsewhere can literally save you tens of thousands of dollars.
- Jusuru itself dismisses the importance of resveratrol by replacing it in some of its juices.
Non-Profit Consumer Advocate Truth in Advertising (TINA) Warn Jusuru
In a letter with a subject of Deceptive Marketing for Jusuru International Opportunity and Products.
TINA continues to state: “Specifically, Jusuru distributors are making a multitude of unsubstantiated disease – treatment claims about Jusuru products, such as being able to treat, cure, or alleviate the symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, neuropathy, cancer, psoriasis, diabetes, fibromyalgia, and sciatica.”
TINA also found deceptive income claims and wrote that they’d be warning the FTC unless the issues were corrected to their satisfaction.
You are free to make up your own mind of whether Jusuru is a scam. I let you guess my opinion.
I called it! I knew that he’d be back! The dude is just too far up his own arse to stay away.
Hey Jay, you accuse Lazy of doing the same thing that he’s accusing Jusuru of doing, but for that to actually be true you’d have to ignore the article at the top of the page.
Simply put, Lazy’s suspicions aren’t apropos of nothing. All the context that you need is in the article, and if your brain does more than just take up space in your head, or if you’re not just a Jusuru shill pretending to be a neutral party, then it should have the skeptic in you cocking an eyebrow.
Jusuru’s claims, however, most certainly are apropos of nothing. They fly in the face of conventional science and common-sense, and so the most logical conclusion that a consumer can make when considering the absence of even a tiny shred of subsantial proof in support of them is that those claims are most probably bunk.
It would not be not safe for consumers to trust their health to an unproven product, nor would it be financially responsible of them to assume that it’s worth the asking-price due solely to the claims that the product’s manufacturer and its sales-force make about it. And so contrary to your idiotic assertion, the burden is on neither us or the consumer to prove that the product and the claims surrounding it are bunk, it’s on the company that’s currently trying to sell its product to us using nothing more substantial than those completely unverified and wildly outlandish claims to prove to us that they are not.
So here’s how it’s going to go down from here on, Jay. If you continue to fallaciously insist that the burden of proof is on Lazy after having this all explained to you in terms that even a mentally-challenged monkey would understand, you’ll only succeed in confirming beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are in fact a Jusuru shill. There is simply no reason why a person of even moderate intellect would dismiss what I’ve said here besides that it doesn’t serve his agenda to acknoweldge it.
So Jay, what’ll it be? Do you admit that you’re arguing a fallacy and agree to either get back on topic or leave, or do you continue to keep the focus on Lazy, thus confirming that you are the lying piece of human gutter-trash that I pegged you as being from the start? The ball is in your court, dude.
Oh, and just to let you know, you have no choice but to respond to this if you should chose to post here again. You don’t get to ignore this one, and you don’t get to self-servingly dismiss it as being baseless without quantifying why you feel that way. No, there’s no way for you to wriggle out of this one, Jay. I’m going to give you fair warning that it is in your best interest to chose your next move wisely.
My best interest?? I have no interest at all in talking to you.
I am wrapping my presence here. Intellectually you guys are not in par with me.
Lazy, I believe your intentions are honest and good, but execution is far from anything someone with inquisitive mind would call convincing, not to mention academically accepted.
It is not enough just to say it doesn’t work, because it is not scientifically possible. At the beginning of XIX century the idea of horseless carriage was scientifically implausible too. The example with the doctor and British Medical Society confirms that.
You don’t know enough. I don’t know enough, that’s why, unlike you, I restrain myself from taking finite position. For every link you attached I can find two with different conclusions.
Your reading skills are amazingly poor, and understanding analogies even poorer. You have exhibited this not only by not understanding (critical analysis) your links but also what I was trying to convey. (English is not the reason.) Vide, the “reading with ass”. First, the “not” was missing, “should read “not with” and second it was addressed to Cybermoron. (Another examples: “faith” and “cancer”, and more, analogies.)
Nowhere in my posts I tried to convince you that Jusuru works. I was pointing at your faulty explanations for your position. Initially I thought this was intentional on your part, but now I know it is just the way your brain works in addition to the lack of skills for meaningful conversation. You can not talk about everything at once. If we had successfully finished talking about placebo effect, I would ask you to show me the illegal claims, according to the definition of illegality. Thus, your use of word “illegal claims” would rendered illegal itself. But I guess it would be to much for you.
Anyway, have a nice day, nice life and happy blogging.
Lazy Man says
You have failed in trying to get me to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt Jusuru doesn’t work. You seem to be living in a world where everything is black and white, either something is scientifically proven or it is not. If it is anywhere in between, you can’t grasp the concept. In your world, almost every account of rape would have the accuser go free because the victim would lack video and eye witness evidence to prove to you that it wasn’t consensual.
Let’s get this straight. The only way to prove whether Jusuru works or not is through the clinical trials. Everyone agrees with that, right?
When I say that Jusuru doesn’t work, I say it as a juror does who has taken all the evidence into account. I’ve been quite up front from the beginning that I haven’t done the clinical trials. It’s the same thing Dr. Bowden is saying about a dozen other MLM fruit juices claiming that they work for a dozen or more medical conditions. Are you going to attack Dr. Bowden for not doing the clinical trials on all the juices for all the medical conditions? Here he is making a claim that MonaVie doesn’t cure cancer, and he offers no clinical trials.
How dare Dr. Bowden take a finite position and try to help consumers from getting scammed out of their money through these illegal claims?!?!
Any honest person not on the payroll of the juice company would shake Dr. Bowden’s hand and thank him for his work.
Jay, I’ve showed the ability to understand literally 24,000 other comments here and no one has complained. Given that you started off with a disclaimer explaining your communication problems (that English is your 3rd language), I think you should rethink your position on where the understanding gap is here.
Jay said, “Nowhere in my posts I tried to convince you that Jusuru works. I was pointing at your faulty explanations for your position.” If you had come here and made the point, “Lazy Man, have you done the clinical trials to prove with 100% certainty that Jusuru doesn’t work better than the placebo?” you would have accomplished your goal. You did not. You wrote “essays” (your word not mine). In the beginning you pointed to testimonials to show that Jusuru does indeed work. You went on to make claims about resveratrol (including one that you were wrong about) and HA.
Since the burden of proof is on you or Jusuru to show that it works, my position is irrelevant. It doesn’t come into play. You can only question my lack of evidence after you have satisfied the preceding contingent burden.
I realize that this may be beyond the understanding of someone who thinks that I have a talking unicorn in my garage. It is quite sad that you would rather choose to believe unconditionally my story of owning a talking unicorn than try to help consumers from getting defrauded out of their money. Let’s be thankful that there are people with more courage and goodwill to teach people that there’s no evidence that unicorns exist.it would be quite unusual for anything equestrian to have the proper vocal cords for speech, and to not pay someone money on their word of it without proof. My biggest failing here (besides continuing to let you “contribute”) is presuming that you, Jay, would want to be a good person and help people.
You did ask me to show you the illegal claims, and I pointed out an example of it. I’m not going to dig it up again. However, if you do a search for Jusuru and arthritis, you’ll see numerous Jusuru distributors making claims about Jusuru helping with the disease. The FDA mentions specifically, “A statement is a disease claim if it mentions a specific disease or class of diseases. For example, a claim that a product is ‘protective against the development of cancer’ or ‘reduces the pain and stiffness associated with arthritis’ would be a disease claim.”
The quote goes on further to say that implied disease claims such as “improves joint mobility and reduces inflammation” also wouldn’t be allowed of a dietary supplement. For a manufacturer to market a product that way is illegal. This includes a company’s financially compensated sales force. Any Jusuru distributor mentioning arthritis or implying it with quotes like above are breaking the FDA law. Furthermore, the FTC has guidelines that such endorsements must have substantial scientific evidence behind them (read: clinical trials).
I’m not going to get caught up into explaining the laws in detail, because that’s fairly complex and will take several pages. Surely Jay will demand this level of unnecessary meticulous work for “proof.” Like his Jusuru claim, he won’t present any evidence that it is legal to market Jusuru as an arthritis aid, he’ll just claim that I haven’t proved my point. I’m not going to get caught up wasting my time like that. I’ll just say that if you are a MLM distributor and you push your product for helping a disease you may get a letter like this one from the FDA (PDF), stating that you can’t legally market it like that in the United States.
Unfortunately the FDA has so many things to do, it can’t monitor the thousands of claims for the thousands of products.
I hope it’s not to late before you rage is released. Let me rephrase the sentence “Intellectually not in par” I meant your way of thinking is not in par with me. Nothing about your intellect
Maybe “mentality” is the better word.
The horseless carriage didn’t work for thousands of years until several people developed it and then proved it worked. A machine for traveling faster than the speed of light doesn’t exist at this moment. If you say you have such a machine, then you need to prove it. Jusuru has no special benefits for the human body. If someone says it does they have to prove it. Case closed. Stop being such an idiot and stop putting on airs because it makes you look like an ass (in addition to being an idiot). Get a basic science education then come back and apologize for wasting everyone’s time.
You are nothing if not predictable, Jay.
I figured that you’d either choose to disappear and never come back, or that your unrestrained pride would foolishly compel you to once again post another lengthy, ill-conceived, and entirely off-topic tirade against your better judgment. I knew that you certainly wouldn’t meet my challenge whatever option you chose, because it doesn’t serve your agenda to acknowledge that the argument that you’ve come to rely on so completely in order to excuse ignoring the larger topic at hand is an extremely fallacious one, and is therefore worthless.
You didn’t disappoint me, Jay. And with that, you’ve made it abundantly clear that you are in fact a Jusuru shill. Though I suppose there’s a chance that you’re just extremely stupid.
You’re right. We’re so far beyond your intellect and your…mentality that you didn’t ever stand a chance. You were so completely out of your depth here from the beginning that at times I almost felt bad for you. While we thoroughly destroyed your every argument so effortlessly, all you could was grasp at straws and dodge our questions altogether when you couldn’t even manage that.
And now you’re predictably jumping ship, which is exactly how every other failed attempt by a shill to turn the tides of discussion in their favor tends to end up. Well, I say good-riddance.
I’m beyond fed up with your ridiculous attempts to pretend to be something that you’re not. I would imagine that any truly inquisitive individual capable of thinking critically would find it very odd indeed that in spite of marketing the product on the back of them, Jusuru offers nothing in the way of scientific evidence in support of the many outlandish and frankly unbelievable claims that both it and its distributors make about its product.
Here’s the thing, Jay. In the many years since someone solicited Lazy’s wife to sell Monavie and consequently turned him on to the scam behind it, many incredibly similar MLM health-supplements have come along. Now the skeptic in you should be questioning how even a single one of these products could possibly help mitigate or cure the wide spectrum of diseases and physical ailments that both the companies behind them and their respective sales-forces claim that they can, but it should strike you as being particularly unlikely that several MLM outfits could have stumbled upon such a miracle, done so all within a very close time of one another, and with each of their products featuring very disparate ingredients from one another. We’re being asked to believe that not just a single MLM company happened upon a scientific miracle, but that said miracle was repeatable several times over by a dozen different MLM companies all using wildly different ingredients. That, my friend, is all so unlikely that extreme skepticism is the only reasonable reaction to it.
Now as if that wasn’t enough, over the past several years we’ve been treated by participants in these various MLM companies to thousands of unbelievable claims about the many miracles that their various health-supplements allegedly perform, but never once have any of them provided even as much as a single shred of proof in support of those claims. That lack of proof is damning enough in and of itself, but that we’ve gone so long without seeing any can only be taken to mean that none exists. If proof does exist, it’s not likely that we’d have gone this long without seeing any, and yet here we are several years out and we haven’t yet. That’s not a good sign, Jay.
So…yeah, there’s plenty of reasons why a true skeptic possessed of functioning critical-thinking skills would think twice about getting involved with Jusuru. As such, it should be clear to anyone that you’re either sporting a severe mental-handicap that has impaired yours, or you’re just pretending to be an impartial party like so many of your fellow Jusuru shills have tried without success to do before you.
Whatever the case may be, you’re clearly not inquisitive, nor are you looking at this subject all that critically. You’re clearly trying, and failing spectacularly, to undermine Lazy’s credibility because its easier to attack the messenger than it is to address the article directly. It’s a tactic we’ve seen used many times now by participants in these various MLM health-supplement schemes that your use of it leaves no doubt in my mind that you are here as nothing more than a shill, bought and paid for by Jusuru.
What the hell? No Jay, what’s scientifically impossible is that one particular fruit-drink could help to mitigate or outright cure the wide spectrum of diseases and ailments that Jusuru and its distributors claim that it can. It wouldn’t be possible even if Jusuru could prove that it’s good for helping mitigate or outright cure even a single one, which they have not done.
So, Jay, given how utterly implausible it is that Jusuru is a magical cure-all, wouldn’t it be more prudent for consumers to assume that it is not until given reason to believe otherwise? If your answer is anything but yes, then I’d like to offer to sell you some of my urine. It can cure anything that ails you and will also prolong your life by about thirty years. You would say that it’s scientifically impossible for my urine to not work or you’d be rendered a hypocrite, so how many bottles can I put you down for? It’s a steal at only $49.99 per 1-liter bottle!
You’re right, we don’t know enough. That’s why we’re asking Jusuru to prove that its highly implausible claims aren’t so much hogwash like they’re legally required to do by the FDA. Until such a time as they should do so, neither we nor your average consumer have any reason to believe otherwise.
As for the contradictory links you claim to have found, you appear to have forgotten to include them in your post. However, given past reliance upon information provided to you by Jusuru or its distributors, I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that they too come from biased sources. Do you care to prove me wrong?
First I just want to point out that if your goal was to insult me, you’ve failed. In fact, all you have accomplished by repeatedly calling me a moron while continuing to dodge my questions is to make it clear that you’re a coward and that I intimidate the living hell out of you. Can’t say that I’m really all that happy with that. I’d rather you stop being a coward and face me head-to-head. However, I’m certainly not insulted.
With that out of the way, Jay, I do recall you asking us in your first post to excuse any confusion that might arise from your poor grasp of the English language. Furthermore, you’ve been repeatedly asked to keep your posts concise and to avoid using analogies because they are clearly above your level of proficiency with the English-language to accurately convey. You insisted on continuing to write lengthy posts filled with failed analogies just the same, so if we’ve ever truly misunderstood you then the blame for it is entirely on you. It’s ridiculous for you to insist otherwise.
As for the links that Lazy has provided to you, it’s difficult for you to make the case that Lazy doesn’t understand them when all one has to do is to read back through his responses to you in order to see that, quite to the contrary, it’s clearly you who didn’t understand them.
Oh, it’s clear that Lazy understood that you were addressing me with the whole reading out of your ass thing, but that he chose to address it himself because it describes perfectly what you’ve been doing here. I mean, I know that you’re largely directing your responses at him because you’re too much of a pathetic coward to take me head-on, but that doesn’t mean that I’m misunderstanding you just because I choose to respond to you. Idiot.
Oh, really? I’d like you to turn your attention to the post you wrote dated November 14, 2012 at 8:12am, wherein you said the following;
“I am, as you, a very skeptic person, and when I first heard about Jusuru I have the same thought: it’s another “snake oil”. However my wife has started to use it and after few month I could see the real effects. It worked.”
I think that speaks for itself, Jay.
No, you employed a ridiculous ad-hominem fallacy in a flimsy attempt to undermine Lazy’s credibility and you failed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Jay, setting aside the fact that you didn’t really even bother to talk about one thing at a time, as well as the matter of how presumptous it is of you to assume that you control the flow of the conversation here, Lazy covered both the placebo-effect and why the health claims made about Jusuru are illegal at length in his many responses to the inane, rambling nonsense that you call posts. That you appear to have missed that tells me that you didn’t bother to actually read the few posts to which you have responded, which in turn makes it all the more clear that you were never here to have a reasonable discussion on the topic. Though really, how increasingly off-point and just-plain terrifyingly insane they became as you went kinda already made that clear. Still though, this is the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.
Now how you came to the conclusion that it could ever possibly be illegal for Lazy to call Jusuru’s claims illegal is beyond me. Maybe the laws are different opon whatever little bass-ackwards slice of the world you were born and raised, but here in America it is not in fact illegal to point out that Jusurus in violation of the law when it makes unproven health claims about its product. And since you didn’t establish how you came to that conclusion, I’ll just chalk it up as yet more hot air from a buffoon.
And that sums you up in a nutshell. You’re just a buffoon blowing hot air, wasting his time and ours with barely-coherent nonsense made even less coherent by your terrible grasp of the English language, as well as by how increasingly more unhinged you became with your each subsequent post. Meh, I suppose we’re all better of seeing the back of you, so I do hope that you can get your pride in check and can resist coming back to put in one last word. Good riddance, Jay!
As an interesting aside, Jay’s approach covers at least half of the 25 rules of disinformation located at the following link, if not more.
I don’t know how to properly format links, so you’ll have to just go ahead and copy-and-paste it into your browser in order to read it. Everyone should read it at least once, because it really does shed a whole new light on posts like Jay’s. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if those 25 rules weren’t covered in Jusuru’s training materials as often as we see these shills use them.
what do you do with the people who have been drinking Jusuru and have seen results? Do you think they are in on the scam? Or do you think that maybe what is in the drink itself is working?
Lazy Man says
Round them up and give them $5 bills? What do you mean “what do you with the people?”
As this article points out there are numerous reasons why they may be mistaken for what they claim to be seeing: placebo effect, observer bias, and conscious deception.
I am very sure that’s what in the drink isn’t working because “the people have seen results” for any number of MLM juices. Dr. Bowden wrote an article about it. Clearly he’s right that all these juices don’t live up to what people are claiming because if they did pretty much every sickness in the world would be cured.
L. E. Ferguson says
OK…let’s cut to the chase and give you a personal challenge to either shut you up while you offer a written apology to Jusuru International…or you are proven to be right.
I am willing to evaluate you with my EAV equipment. We will take a baseline of the readings of each and every organ and system – both on structure and function. Then you will pay out of your own pocket for a 90 day supply of Jusuru Life Blend which you will take diligently as described each day for the full ninety days. At that time we will conduct the EAVE testing again and determine if the product has proven to be beneficial for your health or not. That should suffice for everyone and is worth ten thousand words on the subject.
Do you accept my challenge? I dare you!
Lazy Man says
Hmmm, interesting challenge. I wasn’t familiar with a EAV device so I decided to look it up. There are a lot of thing that EAV can stand for, but eventually, I found an article that explained it:
Here are some choice quotes:
– “EAV devices are marketed by several companies, most of which also sponsor seminars.”
– “The FDA has banned importation of EAV devices into the United States and warned or prosecuted a few marketers.”
– “EAV devices pose several serious risks. The transmittal of false or misleading health information can cause emotional harm, a false sense of security, or a false set of beliefs that can lead to unwise decisions. During the past ten years, more than 200 people have told me about their experiences with EAV practitioners. In most cases, they or someone they knew wasted hundreds (or even thousands) of dollars for the test and recommended treatment. In some cases, the person tested became very frightened and wound up undergoing expensive medical tests that showed that the diagnosed conditions were not present.”
Why don’t you choose a test that is actually scientifically proven to be useful?
Here’s my counter challenge. Do the large scale clinical trials of Jusuru for whatever condition you think it helps and present the data publicly and for the FDA for approval. The big sample size will ensure that there’s no room for error. You get to choose the medical condition. You don’t have to rely on the FDA approval, because if they don’t approve it after you’ve presented the ironclad evidence publicly, they will be proven to be a fraud. Then you can take the same data and get it approved in Europe. I dare you!
I’m still waiting for a written apology from Jusuru’s David Ciemny for not getting back to me like he promised.
Hell, I’ll do it, Limited Edition Fergie! The only change I’d ask you to make to your terms is that YOU pay for a 90 day supply of Jusuru. It’s your challenge after all, so I can’t see why any of us should be on the hook for the product. Besides, if you believe in it then you ought to be willing to put your money where your mouth is, no?
Ah, who am I kidding? EAV equipment is sham tech used by quacks, and contrary to your misguided belief, any readings that you might take from it wouldn’t be worth even a half a squirt of lukewarm piss. The undeserved bravado that wafts from your inane challenge like stink from feces makes you look absolutely ridiculous.
Get lost, clown.
Lazy Man says
Lynn Ferguson hit reply on the subscription email sending an email to me. I think she presumed it would publish the comments here, so I will share them:
Lazy Man says
No, I didn’t make much of an attempt to research EAV. I’ve got enough research with the dirt on nearly dozen MLMs on my plate.
The Quackwatch website has proven to be a trusted source. It isn’t simply “others who disagree”, the articles are based on the existing scientific research. There’s a big difference between that summary of expert analysis and the guy who sells you your morning newspaper. Don’t dismiss it as such. I noticed that you aren’t claiming that they are lying about EAV, which speaks volumes.
I’m happy to accept traditional scientific research and human clinical trials with peer reviews for Jusuru. That’s what I’ve been asking for. What journals have these been published in? I haven’t seen them. I searched PubMed for Jusuru and didn’t come up with anything. I’m not seeing that the FDA has approved Jusuru for anything. Again, I told you I’d accept this traditional measuring stick. So why are you suggesting that I claim to not accept these traditional measures?
If you are convinced that EAV is legit equipment that provides an accurate health evaluations, I’ll ask my doctor about it and see if my insurance covers it. It should if it you are correct.
I am interested in the truth too. Let’s stick with the proven methods and not devices that appear to be illegal and have a history of being used to con people into quack treatments. Sound fair?
You realize that you implying that Dr. Oz endorses Jusuru in this article on your website: Dr. Oz and Bone Health: What’s the Latest and Greatest Breakthrough Product for the Joints and Bones? You should be very careful about that. MonaVie (the MLM juice that Jusuru copied) had been sued by Dr. Oz for implying the endorsement. I will say that your article is ridiculous. Dr. Oz says that diet and exercise is good for bone health and you turn that into a pitch for Jusuru. Really?!?! Maybe you’ve been EAV’d one too many times.
Lynn, it’s because I did in fact do my research on the matter that I know that EAV tech is incapable of properly diagnosing anything, and in fact its results can be rather easily manipulated. As such, I believe that your insistance on using EAV in your challenge is meant to stack the deck in your favor.
Now in spite of how dearly you may wish you were, you are not a doctor. You are nothing more than a layperson who doles out lifestyle advice, which anyone can do. I bet that your “patients”, as you refer to them, come to you with clearly pre-defined medical problems such as diabetes, for example, and that your advice amounts to nothing more than suggesting to them that they get more excersise and that they eat healthier foods. That you use an EAV machine is most likely only meant to give your “patients” the illusion that you have medical authority, as well as to justify prescribing them homeopathic remedies. Which would make you the very sort of person that Quackwatch says to avoid, by the way. I’m sure that you’ll soon begin to use your EAV machine to help peddle Jusuru if you haven’t already done so.
As an aside, I find it interesting that in the five years or so that you’ve been writing posts to your blog, you have attracted very few comments. More interesting still is that it appears that the majority of the relatively tiny handful of responses that have been posted to your blog were written by spam-bots rather than living-breathing human-beings. That’s odd. After all, you claim to have helped hundreds of people, and yet…virtually nobody seems to be aware that you even exist. Funny, that.
Anyway, you’re still a clown, and I’d still like you to get lost.
You DEFINITELY know us says
a)Anyone who cites Quackwatch is either a miscreant or a moron. In 32 years, this “psychiatrist” was forced to testify under oath that he has never once actually seen a patient.
b) He was also forced to relinquish his license
c) We incorporated Jusuru in our extensive practice for nearly two years. Because our boss is world-famous, there is no way we will put his real name on this post, which will, of course, subject us to ad hominem attacks, where the reporter is attacked rather than what is being reported.
Jusuru is profitable, and it is worse than useless. Plus, if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, Jusure is unconditionally guaranteed to make you sicker, accelerate your aging, and kill you before your time. The damage done by insulin resistance is a good deal worse than the public realizes, proven, of course, by the fact that diabetes has TRIPLED just since 1990, and the reality that more than 40% of all humans living in the U.S. are now prediabetic.
The claims of this “Christine” are so beyond the pale of credibility that we can only cry out in anguish at how many people in desperate health conditions fall for her ABSOLUTE prevarications.
c) How is this evil coprophile not in prison? Thank goodness for Newton’s 3rd law of Physics, which teaches us to let go and let God, because there is no way she can avoid an accounting from the laws of life.
May she live to be 100, and suffer every one of those days. What a filthy money whore. Avoid Jusuru like the plague.
Apologies for typos. Have been up for 2 days, working on exciting project. Please do not allow them to detract from the vigor of discourse in expressing such explicit repudiation of anything coming from the mouths or keyboards of definitively deceptive people, such as those who promote Jusuru. Pure garbage.
Get real, sheeple. 50 dollars for a bottle of soda-ish juice? Yes, it tastes good, but so does root beer soda and other poisonous substances.
Lazy Man says
The research at Quackwatch is quite sound and researched. If you have a problem with any citation of Quackwatch cite the thing that you have a problem with, explain why their research is bad and present your own research. The Wikipedia article on Stephen Barrett shows that he is trusted in medical journals, government agencies, and publications like Forbes.
I’m not sure that Newton’s 3rd law of Physics has anything to do with God, but I could be mistaken there.
I DEFINITED don’t know you unless you tell me who you are.
Dear You DEFINITELY know us,
Do you realize you opened with an ad hominem attack on Quackwatch’s Stephen Barrett, then a paragraph later seemed to imply that people shouldn’t make ad hominem attacks?
And regarding Dr. Barrett, according to Wikipedea’s entry:
[Dr. Barrett] was a practicing physician until retiring from active practice in 1993 [at age 60], with his medical license listed as “Active-Retired” in good standing: “No disciplinary actions were found for this license.”
And one more thing, though diabetes is becoming an epidemic in the US, your statement that “more than 40% of all humans living in the U.S. are now prediabetic” is inaccurate. I believe that number, 40%, is for American “humans” over the age of 65.
I have taken this product for 3 months and all that happened is I spent a lot of money on juice and it tastes horrible. This stuff is garbage. dont be fooled.
Sounds like you don’t have a life.
I wonder if you even tried this product. I’ve been taking this product for almost a year and recommend it to everyone who has joint issues (pain, discomfort). I had lower back pain for years, last few years my hips been hurting, plus other joint pains (shoulder, foot), since taking this product my pains started going away about two months into it. I would not go without this drink and recommend it to everyone. It’s a small price to pay to be pain free and feeling good again. I’m back in the gym exercising after many years.
And having it in liquid form, it only makes it so much more absorbable by the body. Antioxidants/fruits are just an added bonus.
Lazy Man says
And you are leaving a comment, Terri, so what does that say about your life?
As for trying the product, see Health MLM Mind Scam: Just Try Our “Product X”!. Testimonials can’t be trusted. As Dr. Bowden points out people selling these juice scams make all sorts of impossible claims.
Fred Goldberg says
What do you know/think about a recent upstart in the “Diet & Healthcare” field, named Xyngular (www.Xyngular.com)??
Lazy Man says
Probably looking capitalize on the the psychological phenomena explained here: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/no-your-mlm-health-product-does-not-work/
Gwladys Street says
Those posting rebuttals sound very much like the testimonials being used by the distributors. I’m sure that’s a coincidence.
I’m writing from England after listening to two podcasts on talkshoe.com from either Walking with Champions or The Secrets of Champions about Jusuru, published this year – 2013.
Have you still not had a reply from the company? Probably more significantly, have you not been contacted by their legal team bringing an action against you? No? Now THAT speaks volumes.
Lazy Man says
I still haven’t heard from the company. I haven’t been contacted by their legal team.
Other MLMs have contacted me on the articles that I’ve written about them, but when I’ve shown them that I’m well within my legal rights to publicize the truth they back away.
Obviously written by an Obama Democrat……. don’t bother me with the facts; my mind is made up. Why don’t you check out how the company, JUSURU is rated by its peers ? Then, check out GNC health laboratory. Jusuru doesn’t sub conract their product out to some lab; they OWN GNC.
JUSURU management is wise to counsel any and all its distributors to refrain from language that can get it shutdown…..a la MANATECH. Someone is obviously paying you good money to deride the reputation of any company that is not your sponsor; unfortunately, most Americans don’t bother with facts; they reason from their bellies. Good day
Lazy Man says
Thanks for the laugh. Sorry that you aren’t interested in facts. You deserve to get burned.
When you don’t care about facts, I guess you can make false statements that Jusuru owns GNC.
I arrived here looking based on searches on scientific evidence as to whether Jusuru was proven to be effective. My takeaway from the various arguments above is that I’m appalled at the lack of common understanding of good science.
Any claim of any effect, by any company, needs to be proven through Randomized, Double-blind, Placebo-controlled clinical trials at a statistically significant population size, and for the findings to be considered trustworthy at minimum they must have been published in a reputable peer-reviewed journal (JAMA, etc.).
Anything short of this, and the claims are equivalent to those of a used-car salesman: Unproven at best; Outright lies at worst.
Unfortunately, Christine’s and Brenda’s comments in posts 100 and 98 respectively are spot on. While I applaud the overall position that Lazy Man is taking, his significantly biased tone in responses discredits the otherwise valuable expertise that he has developed in the MLM field.
“In the end, what you choose to disregard because of tone is your own loss. From a straight-forward logic standpoint, disregarding important information due to something irrelevant to the topic such as tone is frankly not intelligent.”
Lazy, you may want to re-read that comment in a few months or years with some temporal distance between you and the actual post. Tone and Temperament speak volumes about the perceived intelligence and credibility of the speaker — like it or not.
Additionally, his singular focus on the MLM aspects of this issue detracts from exploring (or logically debunking) the health claims of the other ingredients besides reversatrol.
Further, Cyberxion simply reeks of a troll, and takes what could be a decent forum for learning and respectable debate and debases it into a name-calling playground.
Have fun both of you with your intellectual masturbation, no further need for my attention here.
Lazy Man says
From your email address, I feel comfortable in giving an assessment that you are a Jusuru distributor.
I appreciate that you made logical sense with the claims being equivalent to those as a used-car salesman.
I completely disagree with your point about the comment. It has been a few months (I believe) since I wrote it and I still feel the same way that one shouldn’t disregard someone trying to help with logical, intelligent points because they don’t approve of the tone. If my kid was about to walk in a busy street and my tone was harsh telling him to stop, I’m sure no one would simply suggest that he walk into the street anyway disregarding the danger. That’s equivalent to what people are these complainers of “tone” are doing. They want to use that red herring as an excuse to disregard or discredit the useful information here.
My point here is that while you may believe tone and temperament speak about perceived intelligence and credibility, delivering a logical argument is far more indicative of intelligence. If anyone doubts my intelligence or credibility, they can go through the site archives. There’s more than enough information in there including my Mensa card that give real tangible evidence of it. It’s a lot better than guessing based on tone and temperament… and certainly much, much better way to treat someone donating their time to helping out people.
Christine Sutherland has been shown to be scamming others, so I have a very low opinion on her judging the credibility of others.
There’s a good reason for the focus of this article to be on the MLM… it’s the source of the illegal claims that people are making. If you are focused only on Jusuru, you might not see it. However, if you’ve covered MonaVie, Protandim, Youngevity, and a few other MLMs, it becomes obvious that No, the MLM health products do not work. Dozens of products are sold via MLM and they are the only ones that experience this level of illegal medical claims. When a product is sold in a store, it doesn’t have these claims. It is more important to shine the light on the MLM than it is to look at the ingredients as the ingredients in an MLM health product have proven to be irrelevant to claims.
Cyberxion has commented on many articles and is the furthest thing from a troll. You seem to have arrived at the site without any background. I suggest you read the other MLM articles on this site (and the other MLM articles to realize that I’m not someone who just writes about MLM) to catch up on the conversation you missed. You should start by reading the 6,000+ comments in the MonaVie article that I linked to in this article.
My mom got hooked into Jusuru about a year ago, so I did a ton of research on it (primarily looking into first-party sources) and talked to several medical doctors. She saw my skepticism as crapping in her cornflakes, whereas I saw it as seeking out independent, unbiased information (which I found REALLY difficult… lots of Jusuru distributors with websites out there).
My bottom-line impression is that Jusuru does contain ingredients that probably help alleviate joint pain (my mom SWEARS it has changed her life in this regard), BUT you can get those same or similar ingredients in other, less expensive forms that appear to be equally effective (such as pill supplements). When I pointed this out to my mom, she said that because Jusuru is in liquid form, it is better absorbed into your body. However, I have not found any scientific research indicating that this makes these particular ingredients more effective, and the docs I spoke with were very skeptical about such claims.
At the end of the day, if my mom thinks Jusuru works and is happy to spend her money buying it for pesonal consumption, then good for her. However, Jusuru ultimately works like any other MLM scheme, which means that the vast majority of people will never, ever receive a financial return on any investment into it.
TSinPV, you folks don’t drop by because you’re sincerely interested in learning the truth about Jusuru, and while you’ll certainly argue your company furnished talking-points with gusto, you’re not actually interested in having a genuine debate about the product either. No, you Jusuru distributors only ever show up here because the article stands as a threat to your business.
So hey, even were I in the habit of calling you people names rather than simply referring to you as the scammers that you are, I’m not keeping anyone from learning anything if they’re truly interested in doing so, nor am I keeping folks from debating the facts if they want to. I’ll just be damned if I’m gonna stand by and let amoral scum like you lie to and take advantage of people is all. Interestingly enough, nobody seems to have a problem with that besides you Jusuru distributors. Nice try though!
You obviously don’t know much about the ingredients. There is something special in this drink named Life Blend,besides the juices, and you have not mentioned it. This drink is having amazing healing results for many people, and has been approved and recommended by Health Canada (the body approving supplements for sale, after they test them, etc.). Their recommendations are that some healing information be placed on a label to be affixed to the bottle. I suspect you have no serious ailments and, therefore, have not used this amazing product. You are printing false information. Someone recommended this site to me after he almost accused me of trying to scam him. Use it an heal your physical and mental problems.
Lazy Man says
Can you tell me what’s in “Life Blend”, because I couldn’t find details on it? It seems to be more a generic term for the juice itself.
Which healing information does Canada allow to be put on the bottle. It doesn’t have it in the United States and that’s where the company is based.
I am not printing false information. If you see any false information, let me know and I’ll change it.
Looks like that person made the smart move, because it seems you were trying to scam him.
There are 7 grams of sugar in 2 ounces of Jusuru. That’s more sugar per ounce than Coca Cola!
It contains SOY! That’s enough for me to NEVER have any…..
Lazy Man says
It hasn’t received marketing to this point, but there is a great petition out there to end pyramid schemes. I encourage everyone following this to sign it.
Hi, just curious, I have someone trying to interest me in this product, and I was happy to read this material.. though personally, I don’t think quack watch is reputable,(I can send you some info on him if you like) your arguments are sound regardless. One of their claims, that I assume is as false as dentures, is that Coca Cola offered them 1 billion dollars for their company because it was “so awesome” I asked for proof, as that would be credibility and assume they will come up with nothing. Have you heard anything about this or have anything to share?
Lazy Man says
Thanks, I’m familiar with the guy who runs Quackwatch and he is very reputable.
I haven’t heard anything Coca Cola buying out any MLM company. There are so many things that don’t make sense from a business point of view that it isn’t worth addressing.
How about this… buy the product when Coca Cola sends out a press release endorsing it.
Ashley Palowski says
The only scam is people not bring educated on how to successfully run their business and then complain that it’s a scam because they are too lazy to help change somebody’s life. That’s what MLM is all about, helping the everyday struggling who is actually willing to put effort into helping somebody else make money and change their life and they will do the same for themselves. People who cannot do that are the real scam. It’s sad that people call everything’s scam but they are the real scam.
Lazy Man says
Nope, it’s been mathematically proven that 99% of people in MLM have to fail. It doesn’t matter how good they are.
I agree with lazy on this. Some direct sales might be different, but MLM’s requires you to find the right people and who knows who they are? It does not matter how good you are, it matters how good the people you find are. Pain in the butt, I tried MLMs.. and its like peddling a bicycle uphill in the snow.
I think this site has in fact changed many lives – in a positive way.
The information presented here will allow those open-minded to accept and evaluate the research all to determine what is a scam and what is not. In fact, you probably come on here thinking everyone is close-minded when you should be taking a long look in the mirror. I would argue that your immediate negative reaction to the information and research done here has only led others to conclude that you are gullible and not open-minded. We are more than open to hear anything you have to say. However, just because we demand proof doesn’t make us “the real scam”, if simply means we’re not gullible.
You should spend a little time reading what is presented and if you feel anything is incorrect, outline what that is. I’m sure it will be corrected. People in most MLM’s are generally very nice, caring people, much like what you see in a cult. However, you should also understand they are also victims of of a get-rich business scam (opportunity).
While this was written about Monavie, it applies to any MLM, including Jusuru. I suggest that you read it, Ashley.
This guy is a moron of epic proportions. I have yet to see any negative feedback from those that actually use the product. Any negative comments come from idiots such as this that are oblivious to the healing properties of this miraculous product. if you are suffering from joint discomfort, do yourself a favor and give it a try, you will be amazed at the results just as I I was.
Lazy Man says
Are you familiar with what negative comments are? Let me point you in the right direction. It’s calling a person a “moron of epic proportions” and or people “idiots.”
As a group of scientists, researchers, and doctors (i.e. not morons or idiots) agree with: No Your MLM Health Product Doesn’t ‘Work’.
I attended a few meetings realized I was dealing with sheep herders in high heels and 3 piece suits, silently giggled to myself at all of the people flocking as they were being brainwashed, witnessing the true greed (Mercedes dangling out there as the hook) and ignorance in our society.
I went to the meetings to find out about the health benefits of the product and the connection with the income. Leaving the last and final meeting feeling thankful for my 35 years of holistic living, I have under my belt and ton’s of knowledge on supplements, herbs, juicing etc.
Bolthouse Farms makes an excellent product Acai + 10 at Publix for less then $7.00 for a 1 Qt. bottle. Bio-Cell collagen is on the shelf at the Vitamin Shoppe. Reservage Organics is a great brand. I will not ingest Bio Cell Collagen unless it is organic. I feel no need to discuss the other acclaimed ingredients (resveratrol and hyaluronic acid), as our bodies do not assimilate them when ingested.
Black Cherry juice from RW Knudson and Black Cherry supplements on the shelf at the good health food stores, work wonders on inflammation. BioSil Silicon is a collagen booster, also found in health food stores.
Enough said. I personally do not want to drive a Mercedes and with my supplement knowledge, had no need to be a part of the brainwashing.
Live and let live, and if that is what makes them happy so be it. I am too busy to be a part of a pyramid or flock at this time.
Best of luck to all of the folks trying to get that bonus car and remember not to get rid of your personal car, the bonus car is on loan :)
THANK YOU so much for posting this. I have (I’m told) a nice way with people and was standing in line at post office this week when I was recruited by a woman who wanted to hire an “outgoing salesperson like yourself”. She handed me a 3×5 card advertising “Sport Health, Liquid BioCell Collagen and HA. Restores bone, joint and cartilage health, NSF Certified for All Athletes”. Curious if nothing else, I went to her website and noticed that it was powered by Jusuru, which through the power of google led me here. Not sure if I dodged a bullet because really, I’m not likely to fall for any MLM “program” but this company seems scary. Harmless, if over priced product meets predatory marketing practices. Thanks again for the post!
You Sir, Have No Idea Of What You Speak!
The amazing body transformations that are taking place after only a few months on Jusuru are life changing!
Nothing you say here is true. The true benefits are not just the phenominal fruits that make it taste better so the main ingredients can be consumed and assimiliated
into the body.
Your article will hurt those people who read anything negative and never give it the chance to change their lives. How dare you do that
to humanity. The product is simply amazing!
Lazy Man says
Val, next time go easy on the caps lock. I fixed it this time, but next time I’m just going to not publish your comment.
Jusuru has the opportunity to prove the product works in large scale clinical trials. Like every other company with a MLM health product they refuse to.
Here are some health claims by MLM distributors. Jusuru doesn’t seem to be any different.
Vald said: “The amazing body transformations that are taking place after only a few months on Jusuru are life changing!”
Nope. No transformation. Not amazing. Nothing life changing. Just a company that sits idly by while idiots like you peddle BS like that. Congrats on reaching the bottom rung!
I just want to say something before you said something about a product please do some research.
just for make an example here
Sherry said and i quote “Bio-Cell collagen is on the shelf at the Vitamin Shoppe. Reservage Organics is a great brand. I will not ingest Bio Cell Collagen unless it is organic.”
Now Sherry did you know that the product you just mention is elaborated under the formula and patent of Bio-cell collagen created and patented more than 15 years ago for the same company that make jusuru.
there are more than 30 products in the market at company’s like Vitamin Shoppers, GNC, etc. That uses the patented processing method from the jusuru’s manufacturer company
Lazy Man says
Cesar, I think Sherry’s point is that she might as well get an all organic version of Bio Cell Collagen instead of the non-organic Jusuru version. Also it seems like she prefers the Reservage Organics brand. In addition, it’s wise to avoid getting involved in any potential pyramid schemes and buy off the vitamin shoppe.
You shouldn’t suggest that someone didn’t do research unless you have something that contradicts what they say.
Final thought, for a product that was created and patented more than 15 years ago, you’d think Bio Cell would be popular if it did anything. The company wouldn’t have to resort to copying MonaVie and other juice scams (Xango, Zrii, Xowii, etc.) in almost every way.
Alex T says
I found I can get resveretrol much cheaper just from GNC, and as for this company, it’s just another of many juice companies out there. If you like network marketing, find something unique.
Let’s be specific — it’s a lot like many other MLM juice companies, but totally unlike any non-MLM juice company. The latter manage to put reasonably priced, good quality products on store shelves for general consumption. MLMs can’t seem to market a juice that sells for under $50 a bottle, because they have to support a ridiculous pyramidal commission scheme for a bunch of dimwitted desperado distributors, nor does it seem they can sell their products without resorting to downright idiotic miracle cure claims that clearly violate Federal law.
I’m using the product from almost three months and it works wonders on my skin and also in my digestive system. I’m really happy to finally find a natural product that gives me such benefits. I don’t know about the business scheme of the company (and I don’t care), I’m only a consumer and a very happy one!
The funny thing to me, besides the fact that it’s not typical consumer behavior to go looking for negative opinions about products that you claim to be satisfied with, is that the MLM business-model all but ensures that there’s really no market for the product outside of its distributorship.
You can’t buy the product in the stores. It would have had to have been pitched to you, and would have been pitched to you in order to sell you on the business model. So you would have us believe that you just decided to pay the product’s astronomical price based on nothing more than what some glorified door-to-door salesman had to say about it, and that you have nothing to do with the company besides that?
So if you’re just a customer, and one that was sold a product by a shady salesman after he failed to recruit you, then why are you so casually dismissive of the facts collected here?
al spicer says
Good juice but no results in my knee joint even after 6 months of daily religious use.
In fact the knee pain is worse.
Not to mention the wallet pain.
Not surprising. There’s no reason to expect therapeutic effects from hopped up MLM scam juice.
David Salih says
Very interesting, well done article! I’m glad I found this after looking at all the Jusuru promotional materials my friend sent me. I wanted to hear something besides the hype.
Thank you for pointing out the removal of resveratrol in the Canadian product. This is very telling, as was your explanation on the varying degrees of resveratrol that is found in different wines. At that point I was hoping you would focus more on the Bio Cell Collagen, which seems to be more of the core of the product. It seems to me the results people report from drinking Jusuru could mostly be linked to this ingredient, though organic Bio Cell Collagen supplements would be a cheaper and a better option.
Many people who are not eating optimally may be getting benefit from the juices as well. I eat plenty of raw fruits and vegetables everyday, so drinking a little juice isn’t going to make a big difference for me, as far as I can see, ‘exotic’ as they may be. Juicing removes a lot of the best parts anyways, and fresh smoothies are a much healthier way to go. However, for people who mostly eat fast food, juice would do them good and even help reduce inflammation that is exacerbated by bad diets. Still, organic juices are a cheaper and healthier way to go than Jusuru, from what I can tell.
After reading your article, I’m relieved that I don’t need to invest my time in this MLM.
Although I find your views are at times biased way too far in favor of western medicine for my taste, in this case, you were just what the doctor ordered ;)
Lazy Man says
The deep coverage of the resveratrol came about in the deep discussion of the product with a Jusuru distributor that you can read in the comments.
BioCell II Collagen was covered in more detail in the information that Vogel presented: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/jusuru-scam/comment-page-1/#comment-607938.
As far juice goes, it’s worth noting that it isn’t health either. The fix for a bad diet is not juice, it’s simply a better diet.
“Western Medicine” is a red flag of quackery. There’s is simply medicine, which is what has been proven to work, not eastern or western medicine. Medicine cares not about hemispheres :-). Nonetheless, thanks for the compliment.
David Salih says
Thanks for the link to your BioCell II Collagen information.
I think what you wrote in your article was more than sufficient, without even needing to look into the notes. You made your point well.
I completely agree with your note about juice. As I said, I generally prefer smoothies, as juicing squeezes out so much of the important fiber and phyto-nutrients.
Interesting proposal that there is no such thing as western or eastern medicine.
I understand why you might feel ”Western medicine’ is a red flag of quackery’, but I assure you western medicine offers plenty of legitimate, effective treatments the world has benefited from also ;)
Lazy Man says
The place of origin of where proven medicine comes from is irrelevant. The medicine doesn’t care. The key is that it is proven. It makes as much sense to categorize it as northern and southern medicine ;-).
David Salih says
..Except that people actually know what is meant when they hear ‘western medicine’ or ‘eastern medicine’. ;)
Lazy Man says
That’s the problem… they don’t think of medicine as an encompassing term for meaning “proven to work.” Lots of things get the medicine label without that proof, hence quackery.
It is wiser to talk it in terms of evidence-based medicine and other non-geographical terms.
It’s like people actually thinking they know what a “superfood” is. Hint: It is a marketing term.
David Salih says
I understand and appreciate your commitment to people receiving effective and beneficial treatment. However, medicine does not mean ‘proven to work’. By changing the definition of terms as you would like them to be may easily cause confusion and distract from your main intention.
Also, remember there are many people who have been effectively treated by so-called ‘alternative’ medicines/therapies that have not *yet* been scientifically proven by western methods. Question the credibility of anyone who would casually dismiss thousands of years of empirical evidence in Chinese acupuncture and herbal treatments (as an example) simply because western scientific tests have not yet demonstrated their effectiveness. Medicine is more complex than ‘western’ and ‘eastern’, more complex than ‘proven’ or ‘not proven’… not to be confused with ‘effective’ or ‘not effective’.
To disregard these differentiations would undermine your own intentions to inform people about bonafide charlatans. I suggest you not equate the terms ‘eastern’ or ‘alternative medicine’ with ‘quackery’, which it sounds like you may be doing.
Lazy Man says
I highly suggest you watch the video by Tim Minchin, called Storm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U&feature=player_embedded.
My favorite line is, “By definition”, I begin “Alternative Medicine”, I continue “Has either not been proved to work, Or been proved not to work. Do you know what they call “alternative medicine” That’s been proved to work? Medicine.”
If you look at the well-cited Wikipedia definition of Alternative medicine (“Alternative medicine is any practice that is put forward as having the healing effects of medicine but is not based on evidence gathered using the scientific method.”), you’ll notice that any quackery would be included in the alternative medicine umbrella. That’s puts the burden of proof on any particular area of alternative medicine, such as herbal treatments, to prove that it isn’t quackery. The thing is that once you prove herbs to work, you can start get them on a list of things that are proven to work and they cease to become alternative medicine, and just medicine.
You said, “remember there are many people who have been effectively treated by so-called ‘alternative’ medicines/therapies that have not *yet* been scientifically proven by western methods.” I don’t remember any such thing, since there’s no evidence of any such thing having happened. There are no western methods of scientifically proving things, just scientific methods of proving things.
Empirical evidence would lead one to believe that a known ineffective placebo worked. For this reason alone, it should be disregard for what can be proven to work time and again. Let’s not forget the very proven way of determining what works from the National Institute of Health.
I’m not sure that someone whose website offers “soul guidance” should talking about my arguments being undermined when informing people about bonafide charlatans.
David Salih says
Rather than considering my points, you prefer to mince words, apparently. Fine, have it your way.
‘Medicine’ as you define it is not without charlatanry either. Thousands of lawsuits against pharmaceutical companies over the last decade have uncovered all kinds of unscrupulous acts, including skewed scientific studies.
You may have noticed I am a licensed massage therapist. Although many scientific studies have been done about massage (for some of them, see The Touch Research Institute with the University of Miami), I assure you my clients have little interest them. What they care about, ultimately, is what all people ultimately care about when they are seeking health care: whether it is effective and safe. Scientific studies are a great way to determine this, but are not the end-all be-all, and must also be looked at with a healthy skepticism, just as any alternative medicine should be looked at with a healthy skepticism.
I find attacking my character for no reason inappropriate, and easy to do given that I do not hide who I am. Very clever to suggest I’m a charlatan because I offer ‘soul guidance.’ I do not pretend to be anything I am not, nor to deliver anything I do not.
Since you like wikipedia links, familiarize yourself with this one :
An ad hominem (Latin for “to the man” or “to the person”), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument. Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy, more precisely an irrelevance.
Lazy Man says
Your points were about mincing words, the definition of medicine and it being “proven to work.” I certainly considered your points. Maybe you should re-read it again.
I never said that medicine is without charlatanry either. This strawman logical fallacy doesn’t serve you well. There is charlatanry and lawsuits all over Wall St, including the subprime crisis and bailouts from a few years ago and people getting wrongful access to stock IPOs at preferred prices. However, as a whole investing and the financial industry is a great way to build wealth. When you make an argument like you have it comes across as someone saying, “Wall Street is full of criminals, you should instead go buy a bunch of new cars from me. Then you’ll have an asset that’s actually worth something.” It’s terrible advice.
If you aren’t going to use scientific studies to determine what’s effective and safe, what are you going to use? If it’s not the end-all-be-all, what are you going to supplement it with. It surely isn’t going to be unscientific studies, because that opens the door for quackery. I could give you an unscientific on how my rabbits foot wards off cancer. No one who has every touched it has ever got cancer.
Sure, it’s worth looking at scientific studies with skepticism. That’s why systematic reviews are part of the process. The great thing is that when you use the whole process it works. You get results like viagra helping more than 95% of the 2600+ people who tried it in a study.
David, I’ve been linking people to the ad hominem Wikipedia page for over 5 years on my MonaVie article. Trust me, I get that a lot based on the name of my site. In fact people will discount articles of mine where I point out clear and obvious fraud saying, “Why would I listen to ‘Lazy Man’?”
I didn’t attack your character for no reason. You brought up the point about me informing others of bonafide charlatans. In my opinion, the selling of “soul guidance” is the equivalent of hanging a sign on your door that says, “I sell snake oil.” I called it as I see it. Oh, that rabbit’s foot that I mentioned it above? It does “soul guidance” too. It’s been very unscientifically proven.
Lazy Man says
I forgot to put in the final point. Any further discussion that isn’t related to Jusuru will be deleted. This tangent has gone too far as it is. Time to rope it back into the topic of the article.
John Hirsekorn says
I am a professional dog walker in Palm Beach. (I know, tough job…someone has to do it!) My first walk every morning at 7 is 2 big dogs for one hour on the beach. Normally, there is no other humans or dogs on the beach that early. One morning, I noticed a very attractive blonde woman and her dog jogging on the beach toward me. Of course, the dogs stopped to sniff, and she and I exchanged pleasantries. After several weeks of conversation, she finally dropped the Jusuru bomb. “This stuff is amazing, be sure to take pictures of yourself so you can see the transition” “This stuff is so amazing, it fixes parts of your body that are, like, inflamed” “It’s so cool and I’m like, gonna get a Mercedes from this stuff” are only a few of the beachside pitches. I am not naive to MLM, as a matter of fact, I have my wet shoes from 3 separate occasions being dumb enough to think I could make MLM work.
So thank you for your blog. You not only saved me from an annual expense and a guarantee of a 4th MLM mistake, and eliminating an adult crush at the same time.
I’m not a fan of the MLM plan, but I’ve used the product and have had definite results with it. If there is a less expensive way to get the product, and not in a network marketing plan, I’d be happy to hear about it. The capsules on the market do not have the same bioavailability as the juice does in my experience (tried the caps, no effect, tried the juice and obtained effect).
Seems like a harsh slam of the company. The product does work, which is why I buy and use it. I’d just like to find a less expensive version of it and outside of an MLM platform.
A good product that works, I wish it was not in an MLM platform and am open to hearing about another source of the biocell collagen that is not in capsule form and has as high bioavailability.
I use the product simply because it works. I don’t care about the MLM part or making money, and I do wish it was less expensive.
Lazy Man says
I’m publishing both your comments because I you made a slightly different point the second time.
I want to start off with your assessment that the product works. I’d like to counter that with an article that a pile of doctors, scientists, and researchers asked me to publish on their site, No, Your MLM Product Doesn’t Work. There’s a lot of information there and you should read it. However, here’s part of it in a bite-size format. There are dozens of similar products that thousands of people claim work… the only thing they have in common is that they are sold via MLM. Go search YouTube for testimonials of MonaVie (which the inventor says is “expensive flavored water”), Protandim, Zrii, Xowii, Xango, Vemma, and any similar MLM juice.
Go read the article and learn that perception is not necessarily reality. Or go see a magic show and learn the same thing.
Tony P says
Just so you know, there are people who if they could find you would kill you for your lies.
Lazy Man says
There are no lies here. I always say that if you have any corrections leave a comment or contact me and I’m happy to correct the article. They just have be verifiable corrections, not some kind of logical fallacy or misleading information.
It’s a shame that some people would even think about killing a investigative reporter and a father of a one-year old for warning consumers about fraud. It tells you want a ridiculous industry it really is.
If anything in this article is a lie, Tony, surely Jusuru would have sued Lazy in court for libel by now, and the article would have been taken down long ago. That it’s still up should tell you that it’s the truth and that Jusuru knows it is.
It’s called logic, Tony. I know that your MLM overlords have mentally conditioned you into being all but immune to it, but if they’ve left you any grey-matter floating around in-between your ears to use for yourself then it’s gonna have to occur to you sooner or later. Why not now?
I’m just saying, maybe instead of trying to intimidate a good man into taking down an article that only exists in order to help people avoid being screwed over -or to keep them from continuing to be screwed as the case may be with people such as yourself- you ought to take a moment to consider the circumstances. I think that if you do, you may just come to the conclusion that the person least likely to lie to you is the one who has no monetary motivation to do so. That’s Lazy.
Seriously folks, it’s not rocket surgery. If nothing else is, it at least ought to be plain to you that if anyone has a reason to lie to you it’s Jusuru, and more specifically whomever duped you into joining. So maybe instead of being dicks to Lazy and attacking him in a pathetic bid to undermine the article, you should instead consider that you’d never have to do that in the first place if Jusuru was on the level.
If you can do that, then you’re one step closer to being capable of reading the article and taking it seriously. I hope you do so as soon as possible, because it’s only going to end badly for you if you continue down this path. That’s not a threat, it’s just the way these scams go. Failure is a mathematical certainty. Help us help you before it’s too late.
Lazy Man says
I had two more thoughts.
1) Tony, if you know that someone is a high-enough risk to kill another person, you should be bringing it up to the police. Have you done so?
2) Jusuru knows about this posts. Their marketing department commented here before they ran away with their tail between their legs when I pointed out their lies. They aren’t willing to stand behind their product and even have a discussion about it here.
just because something is on the net and has not been sued does not mean its a lie. It takes money and lawyers and usually there is no recovery so it has to be big enough for them to bother. Just a point. Also, just because there is no double blind studies does not make something untrue either. FDA approved trials are INCREDIBLY expensive and another point is, if that was true, then new tests would never prove anything. These are general points as I tend to agree with Lazy on Jusuru.