Lazy Man and Money

My Kids’ Roth IRAs

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Two years ago, my kids got a Roth IRA to jump-start their retirement savings. It was a little aggressive for a 5 and 6-year old, but I wanted to start them early. By starting now, they’ve got the most valuable thing on their side – time.

It can be difficult to get a kid a Roth IRA. On one hand, you have the IRS with the annoying rule that the kids have to have earned income to put into an IRA. On the other hand, you have pesky labor laws that limit the work a kid can do. It’s a shame that my baby modeling idea never took off. I also don’t see people lining up to purchase their wonderful Pokemon art creations.

Kid Roth IRAs with a Side Hustle

So how do they earn this money to comply with the IRS demands for funding a Roth IRA? I pay them to help with my dog sitting business on Rover.com. In non-COVID years, I can make around $15,000 a year, which is a nice side hustle while I’m freelancing from home and writing this blog.

Kids Roth IRA

I’ve been dog sitting for five and a half years now, so the kids have grown up with a couple of extra dogs around. They’ve become naturally curious about feeding dogs and they love to play fetch with them. We’ve taught them how to pick up the dog droppings, but that’s not something they like. Some of their peers do the chore for allowance. However, for the family dog sitting business, it’s a core aspect of the job.

Feeding dogs, playing with dogs, keeping the water bowl filled, and picking up after the dogs is most of the dog sitting job. These are all things that my kids can do. Occasionally I have to give them medicine, but that’s about the only thing that I need to do 100% myself. The IRS should have no issue with me subcontracting out some of the work to them. In fact, I did some math on what a professional pooper scooper company costs, and it seems like it could be a couple of thousand dollars a year for the number of dogs we have and how often they’d have to come. My kids aren’t professionals, but the service doesn’t fill the water bowls or play with the dogs, so I think it averages out.

[This article has been refreshed for 2021.]

Kid Roth IRAs: Powerful Stuff

Contributing to a Roth IRA at this age is very, very powerful. Money grows quite a bit nearly 60 years of compounding until they reach ages 65 and 66.

Before we get to my kids’ Roth IRA numbers, here’s a helpful CNBC look at kids and Roth IRAs in general. Who wouldn’t want 3.4 million in one of their accounts?



My kids won’t have 3.4 million any time soon. If they were to earn 7% interest over that long period of time, a single dollar would be nearly $58. So $1000 in a Roth IRA would be worth $58,000. Of course, at 3.5% inflation over that time, you’d need $7,878 to have the buying power of $1,000 today.

When you crunch those numbers, it gives them a real post-inflation gain of 7x their money. Theoretically, if they could earn the $6000 Roth IRA limit, they’d set themselves up with $42,000 in retirement. Of course, that would be an extreme amount of dog care and that wouldn’t be reasonable.

In addition to the Roth IRA, we pay them some real spending money. They saved up for a Nintendo Switch before the pandemic. That was really good timing, because they were hard to find last year.

I settled on paying the younger one $400 and the older $600. In the next year, the younger got $600 and the older got $750. Since he’s a year longer, it works out to be fair as he’ll have an extra year at the end. This year, I’ll go to $750 and $1000 for each. The dog sitting business is going well with everyone traveling now that they are vaccinated.

Here’s how my 8-year-old’s Roth IRA grew to $1891.99:

Kid Roth IRA

Here’s how my 7-year-old’s Roth IRA grew to $1368.73:

Kid Roth IRA

The 8-year-old would have an inflation-adjusted amount of $13,443.70 in his nest egg at age 65. My 7-year-old would have to settle for “only” $10,066.02. I haven’t contributed to their accounts yet this year since dog sitting income got started late with COVID. These projections will go up once that happens.

Investing in My Kids’ Roth IRA

I normally believe in investing in only index funds for them. However, they always have some money left over. With VTI trading at $222, I buy a couple of shares with $600 and have over $150 leftover. I can buy some other index funds but sometimes I look for some satellite stocks. The theory is that you have core holdings and then little satellite holdings to explore. That’s why it’s also called “Core” and “Explore.”

Core – I’ve decided that the core of their portfolio should be the Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (symbol VTI). Last year, I bought as much I could and then used the rest of the money (less than $160) to explore. This year I did the same. One child got the high-dividend ETF, symbol HDV, that I’ve been touting lately.

Explore – Last year, I explored with Exxon and Ford stocks. I liked that they paid high dividends. I had an idea that I could show how reinvesting the dividends grows. It all sounded good until COVID happened. Ford eliminated its dividend completely. This year, I explored by buying more Exxon (dollar-cost averaging) while it was still paying a big dividend. I also explored by buying all three cruise lines (Carnival, Royal Caribbean, and Norwegian) with at least a share of each. It turns out that those stocks all performed well. Ford’s stock is up nearly 100% as they look to an electric car future. The cruise lines are up 100% as it seems like cruises will be possible soon. Even Exxon has benefitted from rising oil prices.

I don’t have a plan on how to invest their money this year, beyond buying VTI as a core holding. Perhaps we’ll put money into VEU and VWO which focus more on international investing. It might also be time to sell the satellite stocks and put the money into these more traditional indexes.

Because the account is with Fidelity, the no-cost commissions make it easy to diversify by buying a share here and there.

The Future of My Kids’ Roth IRA

In the next few years, I’m hoping they can participate in some of my blogging work. (The older has helped a little bit with my MoneyTime Review. Perhaps later this year or next year, I’ll introduce a bi-weekly kids article. I’ll interview them and get their perspective on what money-related thoughts they have. I’ll then explore how we are parenting their use of money. This is just a seed of an idea. I need to think a little more about how this would work. Of course, I’d pay them for their time and insight, which would be earned income.

After that maybe they can do babysitting or lifeguard work. There will be more opportunities for them to earn money as they get older. While all this is nice, their core “job” now is to get good grades in school.

Give Your Stocks a Shave

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This will be a quick article today. My wife got back on Friday after 35 days of getting shots in people’s arms. Now she’s in the full-spring cleaning mode that she missed and I need to join in rather than typing on a computer. I’m expecting to have April’s monthly review ready tomorrow and then get back to a more normal schedule of posting on M-W, or T-Th.

The markets have been going up, up, up for weeks now. When I did my monthly net worth we hit another record – about the 6th month in a row. They’ve been big numbers too. You’d think I’d be very happy about this, but I’m not. I get nervous when the markets seem to get too high. The Shiller P/E (CAPE) ratio is higher than it has been since the crash of 2000. A historically high number for the Shiller PE is usually 25… it’s almost 38. Here’s a chart from Multpl.com.

As you can see these kinds of peaks haven’t ended well in over the last 150 years or so. Of course, the stock market in 1904 isn’t close to being similar to 2021 – it’s very different. There’s a chance that things are different nowadays. However, even if you look at the last ten years, the market looks very expensive.

I have an internal conflict when this happens. Since I’m only 45, I want to stay invested for the next few (hopefully several?) decades. The other side of me says to sell high and buy low. It’s hard to be fully invested with a long-term outlook and still believe that the sky is going to fall at some point soon.

So what can you do?

Shave Your Stocks

When the market reaching new records, I like to shave off some stocks and put it into bonds, almost like dollar cost averaging. It may be as much a mental thing than a math thing – I feel that I’m better prepared for the next crash. In reality, the move is small, but I can do it a lot and it adds up if the markets keep going up and up.

I don’t shave off too much at any given time. It can be a half or a full percent of my holdings. I also look at stocks (usually ETFs) that are near their highs. For example, VTI (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index), VEU (Vanguard FTSE All World ex US ETF), and HDV (iShares Core High Dividend ETF) are three ETFs that I invest in that are currently bumping up against their all-time highs. They are all candidates for me sell a bit and buy a little BND (Vanguard Total Bond Market Index).

This is basically little more than rebalancing your asset allocation – a common thing that most financial experts would endorse. However, I look at my investments more than most people (probably a couple of times a day), so the psychological effect is helpful for me. Most people shouldn’t be as crazy as I am in checking stocks.

For that awesomely large part of the population, I humbly suggest that this is a good time to check in on your asset allocation if you haven’t in awhile. They may not be where they were a few months ago. They may not be where you want them with the current market valuation.

I Gambled on Bitcoin and Dogecoin

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Note: Today’s article is going to be a quick one. I had hoped to publish earlier this week, but the week hasn’t been going great. I was doing well for the first 24 days of the 35 days of my wife’s deployment. This last third seems to be the toughest.

Getting back to the topic…

Yes, I finally took the plunge. I own Bitcoin and Dogecoin. I know, I should have probably bought Ethereum before Dogecoin. I’m new at this, so I’m going to make mistakes.

One of my biggest regrets in life was not buying Bitcoin in 2011 when I wrote about it. Or maybe I should have bought them in 2013 when I wrote that they weren’t going away. Or maybe I should have bought some in 2015 when I wrote about it then.

I haven’t written about Bitcoin much since then, because it hurts to have missed the train. Well now that I’m on the train, expect it to come to a complete stop. In fact, that’s almost what immediately when I bought it. It dropped 10% right away. Same with Dogecoin. This kind of stuff happens with crypto-currency.

The toughest thing about Bitcoin is getting started. I didn’t know where to buy it. My Robinhood account is the kids’ money, so I couldn’t do it there. I kept looking into Paypal, but their fee structure incentivizes you buy over $1000 at one time. I just wanted to dabble with some small amounts and dollar cost average if it drops.

Enter Coinbase.

With Coinbase going public recently, it got my attention. I decided to sign up and see how it worked. Big tip: Coinbase Pro has much lower fees and I found it very easy to use. I guess if you are a beginner, regular Coinbase is the way to go. I suspect most of the readers here though can figure out Coinbase Pro and save on some fees.

Here’s a video about how it works:


And you can sign up by clicking here:

That’s my affiliate link, which means that I get a little money if you sign up. I was shocked at how quick and easy it was to sign. They connected to my bank account to verify it with Plaid right away. I was buying Bitcoin in about 5 minutes.

The fees for Coinbase Pro are a flat 0.5%. That’s actually pretty good with Bitcoin it seems. I’ve bought in 4 times at $50 each. As I said, it’s not a lot of money, but maybe it adds up over years. Or if drops in half (as it has been known to do sometimes), I can deploy a few hundred dollars to buy it much lower.

So far, I’ve bought at $61K, $55K, $52.5K, and $49.8K. So my average is around $53.2K. As I write this, I’ve made about $4. I won’t be buying a summer retirement house with that kind of money.

Remember that Robinhood account? The kids had around $22 in dividends that paid out last quarter. Coinbase Pro doesn’t support dogecoin, but Robinhood does. My kids have 64 dogecoins. I bought pretty close to the high at 35 cents a coin. I think I’ve lost about $3 or $4 dollars. I hope they’ll forgive me when they are older – I have made them a few thousand dollars by investing.

That’s all I have for today. Do you have Bitcoin? Are you buying any?

SMBX: Crowdfunding Small Businesses

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A friend reached out to me the other day. We’ve traveled around in blogging circles since I started around 2006. Back then I was obsessed with peer-to-peer lending (P2P lending). I had convinced myself that I could lend money to people at 20%+ or more and make 15% on average after defaults. With the trusty exponent button on my calculator, compound interest of 15% quickly turned into enormous wealth. Unfortunately, many more people defaulted and most people were lucky to even break even.

It’s too bad because it seemed like a great idea to take the middleman (banks) out of the lending and borrowing process to make it a more efficient marketplace.

This friend wanted to tell me about a new idea. He admitted that it is a little like P2P lending, but more like crowdfunding for small business bonds.

So it works like this:

A small company decides that they need funding to grow their business. They explain how the business currently works and how this new money is going to increase profits. In some ways, you get to play Mark Cuban on Shark Tank. The difference is that you don’t buy ownership in the company and you can’t negotiate the terms. However, let’s face it, neither you nor I happen to be Mark Cuban* so we don’t have the money and influence to start trying to dictate terms. Instead, you get to be the bank, earning around 8% interest on your investment. This, like with all P2P lending, assumes that you are willing to take on the risk that the company will pay back its debt.

You might be asking yourself, “Should I be taking on this risk to earn 8%?” I don’t know of any risk-free ways to earn 8%. It can be challenging to earn 2% risk-free nowadays. With the stock market booming for the umpteenth year, many experts are suggesting that it won’t be able to grow much over the next several years – and it might crash. I humbly suggest that this investment may deserve a seat at the table with some of your other investments. After that consideration, you may decide that the following risks are too great:

1. The company you fund can go under.
2. The SMBX platform could go away.
3. The Feds could change the rules that allow this kind of investing.

I was able to reach out to the company and they told me that 60% of SMBX bonds have collateral behind them. That’s a lot better than the old P2P lending days when anyone could just walk away with a ding to their (likely already bad) credit score.

All that said I wouldn’t put too much of my money on this platform. However, after writing about bitcoin in 2011, I’ve promised myself that I would be open to putting down a small amount, such as $50 or $100 to see if it works out. Back then a $50 investment would have us living mortgage today. With SMBX, the upside is considerably less.

Nonetheless, I will own $50 of bonds on this Wing Food Truck.

Sometimes It Isn’t About the Money

When you buy a diversified mutual fund or ETF, you are investing in so many diversified companies. You have to take the good with the bad. Every company isn’t going to have the same values I have.

The greatest strength of that diversification is that I can invest in almost everything. I can even invest almost everywhere, even frontier ETFs.

SMBX allows me to invest in a completely different way. If I want to invest in minority-owned companies, I can do that directly. If I want to invest in women-owned companies, that’s easy too. If I want to invest in eco-friendly companies for Earth Day, that’s also an option. If I want to invest in businesses that are Mohawk-owned, I can do that.

You can invest in specific communities where financing may be tougher. You can literally make an impact on a small Mom and Pop business. I consider this to be the backbone of American business… and they need it now more than any other year in my lifetime.

Getting Started with SMBX

I was surprised how easy it was to get started with SMBX. The sign-up process was just a few pieces of information. I had expected it to take days to verify my bank and transfer funds. I was very surprised to find myself ready to loan in just a few minutes.

SMBX uses Plaid as its payment processor. Plaid almost merged with Visa in a deal that would be have been worth more than 5 billion dollars. That deal didn’t happen because of regulatory issues. I think the government thought that Visa would become too strong. In any event, Plaid is highly respected and considered as safe as any banking platform in existence. In other words, if it’s good enough for Visa, it’s good enough for me. Side note: A few days after signing up with SMBX, I created a Coinbase account and they used Plaid as well. So it’s good enough for $100 billion dollar companies like Coinbase.

You can get started with as little as $10. I like low minimums, but that might be too low. I guess if you are spreading $10 to a bunch of companies it can add up, but I think most everyone will invest more. Maybe it would be useful for my kids somewhere down the line. Right now there aren’t many companies that they would be interested in on the platform. In fact, there aren’t many companies overall on the platform. SMBX is relatively new and it needs time to grow to fulfill the promise of being able to offer very specific investing choices to potential investors.

So, what do you think, would you invest with SMBX?

* If you are Mark Cuban. Hi there, big fan!

What’s in My Lazy Portfolio?

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Usually a “lazy portfolio” refers to investing in two or three well-diversified index funds. You can be very diversified if you invested in VTI (Vanguard Total Market), VEU (Vanguard Ex-US), and BND (Vanguard Total Bond Market). You could divide it up 30-30-40 and never touch it again (though you should continue to try to add new money to the investment). Historically, that’s been a very safe and profitable strategy.

However, since I’m Lazy Man, my “Lazy Portfolio” is a little different. It’s actually not so lazy at all. I enjoying picking satellite stocks. So while I may recommend people go with the traditional lazy portfolio because it’s easy, I don’t take my own advice.

I think it’s always interesting when a personal finance writer says one thing, and then does something different. In my case, I do something different for three reasons:

1. I’m doing well with my satellite stocks. Here’s what my actively managed portfolio performance looks like:

Personal Capital - Portfolio Performance

2. I don’t have many hobbies, but one of them is following the markets and seeing if I can make a percentage extra or two.

3. I have significant protection with my core holdings. I’m only managing retirement money, so I don’t have to worry about tax consequences. My wife has more retirement money in her government TSP which has a lazy portfolio allocation. She has a government pension providing long-term income security. We have investment properties that can provide us with income in the future. The satellite stocks in general make up a small amount of our overall portfolio.

Today, I thought I’d pull back the curtain and explain what my investments are and how they got that way. I think you’ll find that it is far from a perfect portfolio.

What’s in My Lazy Portfolio?

lazy portfolio

This mess of stocks and ETF doesn’t make much sense at the first glance. I have a lot of explaining to do. So here goes:

Vanguard Emerging Markets ETF (VWO)

The only reason why I have more in emerging markets than VEU (see below) is that it has performed worse and I feel there’s more opportunity for growth in those markets in the long-term. This is a long-term position, so I’m not too worried about COVID hitting those countries hard, right now.

Vanguard FTSE All World ex US ETF (VEU)

This holding makes up another large chunk of my international stock holdings. These first two holdings are 24% of my portfolio. With some of the stocks below, my international holdings are around 30% overall.

Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF (BND)

Whenever market indicators point towards a stock market crash, I increase the amount of money I have in bonds. I usually keep less than 5% of my portfolio in this, because I’ve got time and other safety nets. However, I’ve been selling off the indexes as they reach new highs and adding more bonds.

I did this strategy in early 2020 and when the markets crashed with COVID, I was able to sell bonds (which didn’t drop as much) and buy stocks at nearly half the price they are today. I know that I can’t call the bottom, so every time the stock market dropped about 10%, I would sell another 2% of bonds and buy-in.

Twitter (TWTR)

I invested in Twitter a long time ago, with most of the shares around $15. I sold some at $40, $45, $50, $60, and $75. Even though I keep selling shares, the overall value has grown, so it’s still a large percentage of my portfolio. Perhaps I should have sold off more, but I think it’s still undervalued.

iShares Core High Dividend ETF (HDV)

This forms part of my core United States index holdings. I like high dividend ETFs for three reasons:

1. They produce solid income. HDV has about a 3% yield right now.
2. They are typically more boring companies that earn good cash and profits which I feel protects me in most market crashes.
3. They help me remove tech risk from my portfolio. As you’ll see with this list of stocks, I’ve got a lot of technology and the market indexes have plenty of tech at the top as well.

Invesco Solar ETF (TAN)

I bought this years ago when I got solar panels on my house. The last year has seen solar stocks skyrocket. I could have sold some off and redistributed the money across broader indexes, but I don’t mind holding solar stocks for another 20, 30, or 40 years (if I’m still around that long).

Vanguard Small-Cap Index Fund ETF (VB)

Most of the big indexes (VTI, I’m looking at you) strongly favor big companies. However, over the long haul, smaller companies tend to perform better. This is a way to give me a little more diversity and better performance than if I had just bought VTI alone. My overall US stocks are still mostly large-cap, so an argument could be made that I should increase this allocation.

Alphabet Class C (GOOG) and Alphabet Class A (GOOGL)

I bought Google a long time ago and it split into two voter classes. These never differ by much and it’s about 9.5% of my portfolio which would bump it up the list towards the top.

I decided not to touch it and it has performed well. Investing in Google is almost like investing in the entire internet and smartphone markets. It almost feels like its own index fund.

Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund ETF (VTI)

Finally, the staple of most lazy portfolios shows up. I used to have a lot more in this, but I sold a lot and put in HDV (see above). If you were to combine my VTI, HDV, and VB holdings, that’s 17% of my portfolio in US indexes.

Snap Inc (SNAP)

I bought at lot SNAP at under $10. Much like Twitter, even though sold off more than half, it is still a significant holding. Whenever SNAP and Twitter reach new highs, I sell off about 5% or 10%. At this point, I’m playing with the house’s money.

United States Oil Fund LP (USO)

I had been buying this oil ETF for far too long. I lost a ton of money when COVID hit and the price of oil went negative. However, I continued to dollar cost average into it. About a month ago, I sold off half since it I was finally solidly in the profitable area. I am holding to the rest with the idea that vaccines will spur a lot of pent-up demand for travel.

Over the long-term, I’d rather not invest in the oil industry.

Apple Inc (AAPL)

I bought some of these several years ago and sold off enough to just play with the house’s money. It’s split once or twice as the company became the first in the US to hit 1T and 2T in market cap.

There’s really no need for me to keep this since it’s well represented in the indexes. It feels like a safe holding though.

IBM (IBM)

I bought this because I thought that Watson would revolutionize the world. It didn’t happen, but IBM has paid out 5% dividends (or more) for years that I’ve held it. In theory, if I put my entirely portfolio in this stock, I could live off the dividends as it would be higher than the 4% rule

General Electric (GE)

I bought this years ago because I thought it was cheap after it had followed it a lot. Then it fell more and more. I bought more and more, dollar cost averaging in, and I’m up about 30% at this point. I have sold some since I’m up. I would sell more, but the pandemic hit their businesses harder than many companies. I’m hopeful that when things fully open up, this stock will out-perform.

Vanguard Real Estate Index Fund ETF (VNQ)

I like to diversify with some real estate holdings. This pays a decent dividend of 3.88% as well.

iShares MSCI Frontier and Select EM ETF (FM)

Yes, 1.5% of my money is in frontier markets. These are countries like Kuwait, Vietnam, Morocco, Kenya, Romania, and Nigeria.

It has not performed well. I’m down about 5.71%. This is a very, very long-term growth investment. It also diversifies my holdings so that I’m invested in probably 100 countries.

Alibaba (BABA)

There was one day (around 2015 or so) when the stock market dropped a bunch for just about 10 minutes. I had a little liquid money and saw that Alibaba dropped more than most. I don’t mind having 1% of my money in “the Amazon of China.”

Lyft Inc (LYFT)

When Lyft dropped to being worth about $8 billion dollars I thought that Google (or another company work on self-driving technology) might acquire it. That didn’t happen, but Lyft’s stock has jumped a lot. I’m not sure how ride-sharing will be profitable as it is now, so I’ve been selling off shares to protect myself if it should drop to $0.

Altria Group (MO)

I was in a forum a couple of months ago and nearly everyone said this was the best dividend investment paying around 8.5%. They had some good news in the last earnings and I’m up 25%. It’s better to be lucky than good sometimes I guess.

I’m very morally conflicted about investing in cigarettes and will probably sell this off soon.

Pinterest Inc (PINS)

This was another case of being lucky. I saw it get down to about $18 a share and thought that it was much less than the IPO, so let’s invest a little. It has been up nearly 500%, so I sold off some to play with the house’s money. (If you hadn’t noticed, this is something I do a lot.)

Kraft Heinz Co (KHC)

Warren Buffett gave up on the company, so I jumped in at a share price lower than him. It has a dividend yield of 4% and my cost basis is about $22 a share (it’s trading at $39). I have been happy with the returns for a couple of years.

Ford Motor Company (F)

I bought Ford because it was paying a 12% dividend due to the COVID-19 impact on its stock price. Ford needed to keep the money to run operations and decided to eliminate the dividend. What could have been a disaster has turned into a blessing, the stock is up 80% from where I bought it.

AT&T Inc. (T)

I bought this about a year ago for its 7.5% dividend yield. I felt like people would still need their cell phones and cable service in a pandemic. It also looks like HBO Max is a good streaming service. The stock itself is up 7%, so with the yield, it is looking good.

Under Armour Inc Class C (UA)

I bought a few shares at around $6.50 when it was looking like a disaster. It’s around $19 now. I sold a little to play with the house’s money once again. It used to be a $20 billion-dollar company, so maybe there’s still room for it to grow.

Carnival Corp (CCL), Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd (NCLH), Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd (RCL)

I bought a little of each of the three major cruise lines when they tank due to COVID. At the time it was less than half of a percent of my portfolio. I just wasn’t sure the entire industry would go away forever. Now they are a little over 1% of my portfolio. I’ve been selling some of them off at highs and it’s close to playing with the house’s money.

Boeing Co (BA)

Similar to the cruise lines, I bought in at $109 as it was a bargain from its $300+ highs. I was counting on COVID getting solved at some point and them being able to figure out their plane troubles. I sold some to play with the house’s money or this would be a bigger percentage.

Uber Technologies Inc (UBER)

Uber seems to lose billions of dollars a year. Still, I thought that at a $50 billion market cap, it had significant assets and would be acquired if nothing else. Guess what? Sold some for house’s money sake again.

Cash – Cash – Cash! (Cash)

I don’t like to keep a lot of cash around. I’ve been putting most of it into BND, so I can at least earn some income on the dividends.

Lazy Man’s Portfolio Recap

So that’s the rundown of how I invested my money. As you can tell, things got a little messy in some places and I got lucky in other places. The overall trend right now is to try to sell some of the individual holdings at highs and invest them in index funds.

I would also be willing to invest in new satellite stocks, but I haven’t found anything that’s a good value recently. Most of the companies that seem cheap to me (AT&T for example) aren’t likely to grow much. That’s another reason why I am content to keep the money invested in a place in bonds or dividend stocks while I wait to find a new opportunity.