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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Middle Class</title>
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	<description>Saving, Earning, and Investing Money</description>
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		<title>By: Foobarista</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-82375</link>
		<dc:creator>Foobarista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 02:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-82375</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re going to have a career in software, you have to find a niche where you _don&#039;t_ have to do the &quot;latest tools &amp; technologies&quot; treadmill.

They do exist - I&#039;m in one - but they are hard to find, especially for younger developers.  I do &quot;keep up&quot;, but in my field, it&#039;s new algorithms, not the hot scripting language du jour and yet another round of toolchain trivia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re going to have a career in software, you have to find a niche where you _don&#8217;t_ have to do the &#8220;latest tools &amp; technologies&#8221; treadmill.</p>
<p>They do exist &#8211; I&#8217;m in one &#8211; but they are hard to find, especially for younger developers.  I do &#8220;keep up&#8221;, but in my field, it&#8217;s new algorithms, not the hot scripting language du jour and yet another round of toolchain trivia.</p>
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		<title>By: Lazy Man</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81596</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazy Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81596</guid>
		<description>In my time as a software engineer, I didn&#039;t get nearly the same perks you did.

Yes I got a flexible schedule, but work from home was very limited and looked down upon.  Also, working when you want, when you have to work 60 hours a week and another 20 studying to keep up, doesn&#039;t work for me.

Five weeks of vacation?  I think this is the benefit of working at a company for 20 years, not so much being a software engineer.  ESPP, unlimited sick days, and 401Ks are related to many other jobs as well.

I don&#039;t have hard ranges on the classes, so it&#039;s hard to determine where upper middle becomes upper.  I&#039;m sure everyone has their own criteria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my time as a software engineer, I didn&#8217;t get nearly the same perks you did.</p>
<p>Yes I got a flexible schedule, but work from home was very limited and looked down upon.  Also, working when you want, when you have to work 60 hours a week and another 20 studying to keep up, doesn&#8217;t work for me.</p>
<p>Five weeks of vacation?  I think this is the benefit of working at a company for 20 years, not so much being a software engineer.  ESPP, unlimited sick days, and 401Ks are related to many other jobs as well.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have hard ranges on the classes, so it&#8217;s hard to determine where upper middle becomes upper.  I&#8217;m sure everyone has their own criteria.</p>
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		<title>By: kitty</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81595</link>
		<dc:creator>kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81595</guid>
		<description>I am also a software engineer, and I pretty much plan to do it until I decide to retire. I&#039;ve worked all my life for the same Fortune 500 company; more than half of it in a research center. During internet boom I resisted switching jobs and getting more money because I felt the job wouldn&#039;t be as interesting as working in research with all the top scientists; also most other jobs would&#039;ve longer commutes. I don&#039;t regret it: I might&#039;ve earned a bit less money, but I got to keep my job.   

There is a bright side to software engineering work if you are good, like what you do and find the right place to work. 
1. Flexible schedules. Nobody cares when you come and go, you can work from home, work more hours when you are busy, less when you are not. In my company you can also take time off for &quot;personal business&quot;, no question asked, always could even 20 years ago. The emphasis is on job done and not on hours spent doing it. This isn&#039;t the case in every company&#039;s division, but it is true in most. This type of arrangement is more likely with software engineering than many other profession. If you have your own business, it depends on a business, sometimes you just have to be there.

2. Vacation. I have 5 weeks paid vacation + 3 personal choice holidays. Yes, I know it is a bit unusual; my company changed the policy of giving 5 weeks at 20s anniversary a few years ago, new people get 3 weeks right away (we got 2), 4 weeks at 10th anniversary and that&#039;s it. But even 4 weeks is more than many people have. If you have your own business, you often need to be there to manage it.

3. Unlimited number of sick days. I know this is a bit unusual even in software engineering, but some companies have it.

4. Ability to get a little extra money by patenting. I have a friend who gets additional 20K just in patent awards. I am not nearly that good, but I usually do manage a few thousand.

5. Little fringe benefits like company match for 401K, ESPP (not as good now as it used to be, so I stopped participating). Little things like free entrance to most NYC museums for myself and a bunch of guests because my company donates to arts. 

Most of the time I like being a software engineer. These days I spend less than 50% of my time coding. I miss it - it is so much simpler than what I do.

Talking about upper middle class vs upper class. Where would you draw the line between those?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also a software engineer, and I pretty much plan to do it until I decide to retire. I&#8217;ve worked all my life for the same Fortune 500 company; more than half of it in a research center. During internet boom I resisted switching jobs and getting more money because I felt the job wouldn&#8217;t be as interesting as working in research with all the top scientists; also most other jobs would&#8217;ve longer commutes. I don&#8217;t regret it: I might&#8217;ve earned a bit less money, but I got to keep my job.   </p>
<p>There is a bright side to software engineering work if you are good, like what you do and find the right place to work.<br />
1. Flexible schedules. Nobody cares when you come and go, you can work from home, work more hours when you are busy, less when you are not. In my company you can also take time off for &#8220;personal business&#8221;, no question asked, always could even 20 years ago. The emphasis is on job done and not on hours spent doing it. This isn&#8217;t the case in every company&#8217;s division, but it is true in most. This type of arrangement is more likely with software engineering than many other profession. If you have your own business, it depends on a business, sometimes you just have to be there.</p>
<p>2. Vacation. I have 5 weeks paid vacation + 3 personal choice holidays. Yes, I know it is a bit unusual; my company changed the policy of giving 5 weeks at 20s anniversary a few years ago, new people get 3 weeks right away (we got 2), 4 weeks at 10th anniversary and that&#8217;s it. But even 4 weeks is more than many people have. If you have your own business, you often need to be there to manage it.</p>
<p>3. Unlimited number of sick days. I know this is a bit unusual even in software engineering, but some companies have it.</p>
<p>4. Ability to get a little extra money by patenting. I have a friend who gets additional 20K just in patent awards. I am not nearly that good, but I usually do manage a few thousand.</p>
<p>5. Little fringe benefits like company match for 401K, ESPP (not as good now as it used to be, so I stopped participating). Little things like free entrance to most NYC museums for myself and a bunch of guests because my company donates to arts. </p>
<p>Most of the time I like being a software engineer. These days I spend less than 50% of my time coding. I miss it &#8211; it is so much simpler than what I do.</p>
<p>Talking about upper middle class vs upper class. Where would you draw the line between those?</p>
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		<title>By: Dividend growth investor</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81229</link>
		<dc:creator>Dividend growth investor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81229</guid>
		<description>Money is a tool which we use to achieve certain goals. It shouldn&#039;t be the goal of our lives. I agree that a person rich in experiences is a truly rich person. Material things are not that important ( sounds like a weird post from a person who talks dividends 24/7)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Money is a tool which we use to achieve certain goals. It shouldn&#8217;t be the goal of our lives. I agree that a person rich in experiences is a truly rich person. Material things are not that important ( sounds like a weird post from a person who talks dividends 24/7)</p>
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		<title>By: Lazy Man</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81226</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazy Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81226</guid>
		<description>Thanks Llama... I just replied directly to him.  I should make it habit to reply here as well for completeness.

You forgot to mention that I&#039;m practice Wii Tennis.  There should be a tour or something ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Llama&#8230; I just replied directly to him.  I should make it habit to reply here as well for completeness.</p>
<p>You forgot to mention that I&#8217;m practice Wii Tennis.  There should be a tour or something ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Llama Money</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81222</link>
		<dc:creator>Llama Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81222</guid>
		<description>deepali:  Lazy Man&#039;s no longer writing code all day long.  Instead he&#039;s busy, well, being lazy :)  No, he&#039;s just blogging for now, though I think he recently took a part-time consulting gig as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>deepali:  Lazy Man&#8217;s no longer writing code all day long.  Instead he&#8217;s busy, well, being lazy :)  No, he&#8217;s just blogging for now, though I think he recently took a part-time consulting gig as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Stupid</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81218</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Stupid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81218</guid>
		<description>I dunno, I think Jonathan Clement spelled out 3 pretty good reasons why being middle class isn&#039;t ideal in his 1008th and final column in the WSJ:

1) If you have money, you don&#039;t have to worry about it. 

2) Money can give you the freedom to pursue your passions.

3)  Money can buy you time with friends and family.

His purpose was to drive home the message that you should save now for the rewards that come later, but you could read it as &quot;What are the benefits of being upper class?&quot;

Just my 2 cents.

Mr. Stupid</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, I think Jonathan Clement spelled out 3 pretty good reasons why being middle class isn&#8217;t ideal in his 1008th and final column in the WSJ:</p>
<p>1) If you have money, you don&#8217;t have to worry about it. </p>
<p>2) Money can give you the freedom to pursue your passions.</p>
<p>3)  Money can buy you time with friends and family.</p>
<p>His purpose was to drive home the message that you should save now for the rewards that come later, but you could read it as &#8220;What are the benefits of being upper class?&#8221;</p>
<p>Just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>Mr. Stupid</p>
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		<title>By: deepali</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81209</link>
		<dc:creator>deepali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81209</guid>
		<description>Sometimes, when I feel overwhelmed by something, I remind myself that there&#039;s a greater reason for this.  And if I&#039;m still not convinced, I just stop doing it and go watch TV. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes, when I feel overwhelmed by something, I remind myself that there&#8217;s a greater reason for this.  And if I&#8217;m still not convinced, I just stop doing it and go watch TV. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Cos</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81143</link>
		<dc:creator>Cos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81143</guid>
		<description>LM, not still a software engineer?  I must have missed something, I thought that&#039;s what you did in Silicon Valley altho this post speaks to it in past tense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LM, not still a software engineer?  I must have missed something, I thought that&#8217;s what you did in Silicon Valley altho this post speaks to it in past tense.</p>
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		<title>By: Online Education</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81137</link>
		<dc:creator>Online Education</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:15:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81137</guid>
		<description>It is really a grind ... creating and checking codes daily, you wonder, is this what&#039;s life all about?

I am really gonna save up and set up my won consulting firm maybe in 5 years. Gotta hand it to you guys for findings ways to be working and finding lots of ways to be happy with your love ones! Thanks.

www.articlearchive.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is really a grind &#8230; creating and checking codes daily, you wonder, is this what&#8217;s life all about?</p>
<p>I am really gonna save up and set up my won consulting firm maybe in 5 years. Gotta hand it to you guys for findings ways to be working and finding lots of ways to be happy with your love ones! Thanks.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.articlearchive.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.articlearchive.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Frugal Dad</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81116</link>
		<dc:creator>Frugal Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 23:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81116</guid>
		<description>&quot;there’s more to life than coding a computer...&quot;  Man, can I relate to that!  To steal a line from your already-referenced classic, &quot;Human beings were not put here to sit in an office all day...&quot;  One day I hope to break free from the rat race, too!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;there’s more to life than coding a computer&#8230;&#8221;  Man, can I relate to that!  To steal a line from your already-referenced classic, &#8220;Human beings were not put here to sit in an office all day&#8230;&#8221;  One day I hope to break free from the rat race, too!</p>
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		<title>By: That One Caveman</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81107</link>
		<dc:creator>That One Caveman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81107</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a software engineer, too, and I decided my life was better spent living.  I&#039;m currently the sole income for our household with my wife taking well to her stay-at-home mom role, but eventually my business (and hopefully my writing) will take off and start to give us both some more freedom while doing what we love.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a software engineer, too, and I decided my life was better spent living.  I&#8217;m currently the sole income for our household with my wife taking well to her stay-at-home mom role, but eventually my business (and hopefully my writing) will take off and start to give us both some more freedom while doing what we love.</p>
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		<title>By: Writer's Coin</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81104</link>
		<dc:creator>Writer's Coin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81104</guid>
		<description>The similarities continue LM . . . I had the PMP300 too! I actually gave a speech about MP3s and no one knew what I was talking about. They did ask me the same question over and over: &quot;Why would I want to only have 6-7 songs on it?&quot;

How times have changed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The similarities continue LM . . . I had the PMP300 too! I actually gave a speech about MP3s and no one knew what I was talking about. They did ask me the same question over and over: &#8220;Why would I want to only have 6-7 songs on it?&#8221;</p>
<p>How times have changed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81102</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81102</guid>
		<description>Wow I had a Rio from back in the day... 7-8 songs, about the length of a short CD. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow I had a Rio from back in the day&#8230; 7-8 songs, about the length of a short CD. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs. Micah</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/comment-page-1/#comment-81098</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. Micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/thoughts-on-middle-class/#comment-81098</guid>
		<description>If passion is what&#039;s helping people succeed in business, that&#039;s great. Me, I enjoy libraries and blogging and quilting and maybe someday writing. None of those is necessarily a million dollar occupation, though I plan to pursue them all with zest and passion.

I hear you on the tech work. My dad often relaxes in the evening with books or magazines on the latest tools and technologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If passion is what&#8217;s helping people succeed in business, that&#8217;s great. Me, I enjoy libraries and blogging and quilting and maybe someday writing. None of those is necessarily a million dollar occupation, though I plan to pursue them all with zest and passion.</p>
<p>I hear you on the tech work. My dad often relaxes in the evening with books or magazines on the latest tools and technologies.</p>
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