Prometheus Real Estate Group Sucks! |
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Again, sorry for the "ranty" nature this week. I have a lot of bones to pick this week...
Given the fact that we've had our share of problems being a landlord lately, you'd think we'd have a soft spot for landlords everywhere. Well, it was a bad week for us as tenants well. We got our security deposit back from our previous place. During the walk-through everything looked good and we were expecting no charges. It seemed like we were going to get our $1200 back in total. Alas the check back to us at $57. We were stunned. We had spent three days cleaning the place from top to bottom. We had the walk-through a week early since we were already settling into our new place. There had never been better tenants in the history of the world - you get the idea.
So we took our $57 check to our apartment run by Prometheus Real Estate Group to ask them what the deal is. The very least they could do is provide some kind of breakdown of where our $1200 went. The manager looked surprised to see us. He went to retrieve our record and I found something very odd. They had us in the apartment until June 11th. We were out on May 23rd (though official it was the 28th, since I wanted to make sure mail was being forwarded). Our lease ended May 31st. So somehow they tacked on 11 days worth of rent... plus $20 for it being month-to-month. What is this craziness?!?! We have a signed lease with it clearly ending on the 31st of May.
It appears that California's laws suck. They require you to give 30 days notice in writing if you plan to not renew your lease. We gave it verbally - even Prometheus agrees to that. They sent us some legal paperwork that was ambiguous and though we tried to get clarification to get it back to them, it was difficult with our work schedule and Prometheus' lack of work schedule (they decided not to work weekends this year). So this piece of paper sat. Yada, yada, yada, we didn't meet our obligation to give written notice that we were going let an expiring contract expire. I've check this with a couple of lawyer friends, and they find it to be one of the craziest and stupid laws on any state's books. With this logic, it's easy to understand why California is asking people to fix its budget.
So it's hard to get too mad at Prometheus right? Well, I think they've got a little problem with verbal agreements. For one, they only verbally told us that this document had to be in. Prometheus never mentioned the possibility that it would extend our lease. They did this only in a phone call to my wife's cell phone. I didn't know about this law until this past weekend, two months after we were victims of it. At the time, Prometheus also told my wife that it was not going to be a problem, since they already had a tenant waiting. That fell through sometime and Prometheus never told us that it was going to be problem again. So our verbal agreement to move out doesn't have legal weight and Prometheus can go back on their word - legally I understand it, but it doesn't make it right. At the very least we should have been told and allowed to keep our keys for the days that we paid for instead of having to go to them a month and half after we returned our keys.
The other charge was pretty annoying as well. After those 3 days of cleaning, we still got charged for $85 of a partial clean. The law says it had to be back to condition we received it in. (We're pretty sure it was better, but we should have documented with pictures.) The extra salt to our wounds was when he said a full clean was only $175. So we saved ourselves $90 with three days of work. As my wife put it, "We may have spent that in cleaning supplies alone."
It's good to know that I'm not the only one who thinks that Prometheus Real Estate Group Sucks.
This post deals with:California Landlord/Tenant Laws, Prometheus, Prometheus Real Estate Group
... and focuses on:Real Estate
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Hmm. I think I’ve always given verbal notice.
Geez, what kind of document did they send you? You’d think it would be a 1 page document with about 50 words on it. “You’re moving out of this date. Please sign on the little lines. So long and thanks for all the fish.”
Yeah, you should have asked for the cost of the cleaning beforehand. 3 days is a lot of work, even if you would have saved the whole $175.
I wouldn’t blame the law. The property managers are the ones that took your verbal agreement then charged you extra. Now they’re just hiding behind the technicality of the law. Thats a BS move on the part of the property manager.
California law didn’t cause Prometheous to cheat you out of your money. If they did the right think you’d get your cash back and a simple apology for their mistake. If the law didn’t require written notice, do you think Prometheous would give you a full refund with a smile? I doubt it.
In every state I’ve ever lived (Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma) I’ve been required to give written notice at least 30 (sometimes 60) days in advance – BUT I think in every case the management company sent me a letter reminding me of that fact well before my lease expired (usually in the lease extension/renewal option letter).
That really sucks you had to pay extra rent but I definitely have been there and learned my lesson the hard way when I tried to give a 30 day notice to the company that required a 60 day notice. Had to pay another whole month! I’m pretty sure they had somebody in there while I was still paying rent too!!
I’ve never given a written notice either. All the apartments I lived in (in MA) we were offered to re-sign the lease, and we just told them we were leaving instead. Easy peasy.
As for the cleaning, that blows. I’ve been the one who moves into a dirty apartment that was “cleaned” by the previous tenants, and I think that landlords should always have it professionally cleaned. If you did a good job, though, the fee is BS.
JvW, maybe it’s because I’m from MA as well. We just did the same thing – assumed the business arrangement expired and did the courteous thing by telling the landlord, and moved on.
I also played the, “as a landlord, I always absorb the cost of nominal cleaning charges when I get a new tenant” card. They countered with the “California law requires it to be in the exact same condition we left it, so we had to have our professionals come in anyway” card.
Lazy Man, you gotta learn to be an a$$hole, like me. It’s an expensive lesson to learn, but hopefully you’ve learned it well. Document everything! Take pix when you move in, when you move out, every time they miss a commitment. It all “adds up” when you go to small claims court.
Use the threat, too. I realize it’s a little late for this tactic, but next time their maintenance people park in the fire lane, take a photo of it. Compile them and call the PD. Cite them. Be a JERK. I once got out of a lease by being this kind of a-hole. The landlords were being totally unreasonable, so I countered. I had a meeting with them, where I told them I’d be recording the conversation. They stopped being unreasonable and kicked me out. They didn’t dare take anything out of my deposit because they knew I’d call them on it.
As a last resort, learn the ‘blank stare.’ If you need some tutoring, I’ll teach you for a nominal fee. I’m the MASTER. It’s a cross between “I’m going to disembowel you” and “I have no idea what you’re talking about.” Super effective.
Required notice here is 60 days. I don’t believe that the law requires it to be written but I’ve always done so.
The only communication with a landlord/superintendant that I don’t commit to writing is a simple “Hello” in the morning.
Paper trails have saved me money and hassle on many occasions.
Lazy man,
This may be against your mantra (i.e. laziness) but I would absolutely 100% take them to small claims court. What is the worst that happens – You spend $15 for service and they spend hundreds on an attorney? What’s the best scenario – instead of dealing with the pain they give you a couple undred bucks to shut up?
Hi
I would agree with the comment above. The company concerned want to make some easy extra money, and quite often they will fold if they are threatened with court action. It just isn’t worth the effort (they are even lazier than you :) )
It may have been the legal thing to do, but it certainly wasn’t the right thing to do. When I’ve gotten screwed in the past with no recourse, I’ve comforted myself that there is some sort of cosmic justice. Or as they used to say in the old neighborhood, what comes around, goes around. Perhaps the property manager’s day will come. Bad kharma gets everyone eventually.
“as a landlord, I always absorb the cost of nominal cleaning charges when I get a new tenant”
Why would you do that?
If the last tenant left the place unclean then why would you pay out of pocket to clean it?
“Clean” isn’t exactly an either… or. If it’s really bad and it’s going to cost me a lot of cleaning, it will come out of their security deposit. I haven’t run into that situation yet, and simply get a cleaning service to do a once-over for around $50. I’m sure this is similar the “partial clean” that Prometheus charged us for… except that I’d pick up that bill.
During the walkthrough did the property manager present you with a list of proposed charges for repairs/cleaning?
I think they are required to do so under the law.
http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/landlordbook/sec-deposit.shtml
“Based on the inspection, the landlord or agent must prepare an itemized statement of repairs or cleaning that the landlord or agent believes the tenant should perform in order to avoid deductions from the tenant’s security deposit.”
Thats the whole point of the walkthrough really.
“I’m sure this is similar the “partial clean” that Prometheus charged us for… except that I’d pick up that bill.”
But why would you pay that as the landlord? If its not clean “enough” then it doesn’t meet your requirements as clean. You should at that point tell the renter that it needs more cleaning or you’ll have to charge them to do it.
Jim, that’s a good point, we did not receive a list of proposed charges for repairs/cleaning.
I think there’s a fundamental divide between what most people consider “clean enough” and what I want the place to be when the tenant walks in – if for no other reason than to get off on the right foot.
Lazy, yeah I think its very difficult for any 2 random people to agree on what “clean” really means. My wife is much more picky than me on that. My dad has had tenants that thought wiping around the dirt with a wet rag and leaving food in the cupboards constituted cleaning.
I remember at one point, there was discussion here in California of changing the name of ’security deposit’ to ‘move-in fee’ or something like that. The reasoning was that since you almost never get the money back, there’s no reason to call it a deposit – that just implies that you’ll get it back. A few lawmakers were trying to call a spade a spade and just tell people outright that they were never going to see that money again.
Outside of California, I haven’t had many problems getting all or most of a security deposit back. In California, I’m lucky to see half of it, no matter how clean and perfect the apartment is.
Most managers are kind & willing to work with residents. Prometheus Real Estate Group is a large company solely in the business of making money, no matter what “branding efforts” they invent. Stay away.
It was my understanding that the law in California has a specified term in the leasing contract. If the lease end-date states, e.g., May 31, 2009, then that is the contractual end-date, and no other agreement had been made beyond that. Therefore, it is my understanding that you have through that date to reside there, and then move on that date without prior notice. Now, somewhere in the contract it probably states that you must give a 30-day advance written notice of your decision to vacate. This is where Prometheus Real Estate Group probably gets a lot of vacating residents, however, the term is clearly specified. Probably needs challenging in a court of law. I have noticed that the law usually seems to be on the side of the resident.
Yes, it is my understanding that they are to give you documentation after you initial inspection, and final inspection. Also, you are suppose to sign it, I believe.
I would be a little hestitant to reside at a property wherein the name itself means “The God of Fire.” I certainly would not ever want to get burned. I am sorry for your experience with them!
oh and also, if the maintenance men make a mess while doing the “turnover”, the cleaners come in at the end and clean everything after their foot prints, caulking of tub, etc..
Prometheus was/is doing a lot of renovations, and last year I heard that someone lost their job and needed to move out early and agreed to move so they could show his unit in hopes that they would rent it immediately, relieving him of any further financial responsibility the day the new resident moves in. Well, Prometheus did not show his unit and instead they renovated it taking about 3 weeks to do the full kitchen renovation with new washer/dryer hook-ups, granite counter-tops, new cabinets, etc.. all the while making him pay for each of those days that they were renovating.
How about that? Making financially injured individuals pay for the company’s gain. Now, they have a “quick release” clause so if you lose your job and can prove it, you can be released from your contract (with a 30 day advance written notice). But it seems so unethical to me to collect daily rent from a resident that moved out early, while the company is renovating it and clearly no one can move it. I think the company took possession of the unit when they started demolitioning it.
I have worked for Prometheus as a maintenance supervisor in the past and this is very common. No matter what you clean, they will have it cleaned again behind the maintenance and other vendors who come in after you leave. They are going to find a way to pass that cost onto the previous tenent. It’s very unethical but it’s about profit. Carpets are the biggest scam. The carpets are the cheapest grade they can get, which usually last for 1 year if that. They then turn around and charge you for any little discoloration or perceived pet damage, stating that the life expectancy of the carpet is 5 years. Very, very common. Prometheus is in the business of hyping themselves up but delivering a substandard product. Prometheus is a legend in their own minds. Please tell all that you can, to stay away. Renters please beware.