<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Money Magazine and Rental Properties</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/</link>
	<description>Saving, Earning, and Investing Money</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:22:17 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Lazy Man</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/comment-page-1/#comment-616</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazy Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 05:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/#comment-616</guid>
		<description>Aaron, I purposely didn&#039;t calculate the individual payments - so yes, things like interest and taxes aren&#039;t put in.  I was just explaining the idea of leverage and how it wasn&#039;t taken into account.

There are number of articles that go further into the math, but for the sake of this I was making the assumption that the rent cover the mortgage (typically including interest and taxes).  That may be optimistic.  If the rent is $200 less than the mortgage, there&#039;s still a $6K gain or more.  And remember, I&#039;m using 3% housing appreciation and not the 5-6% that&#039;s more typical over the long term.  If I had used those numbers, it could be closer to a 20K difference.  The fact that it&#039;s even close with the conservative numbers tells the story that I wanted to tell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaron, I purposely didn&#8217;t calculate the individual payments &#8211; so yes, things like interest and taxes aren&#8217;t put in.  I was just explaining the idea of leverage and how it wasn&#8217;t taken into account.</p>
<p>There are number of articles that go further into the math, but for the sake of this I was making the assumption that the rent cover the mortgage (typically including interest and taxes).  That may be optimistic.  If the rent is $200 less than the mortgage, there&#8217;s still a $6K gain or more.  And remember, I&#8217;m using 3% housing appreciation and not the 5-6% that&#8217;s more typical over the long term.  If I had used those numbers, it could be closer to a 20K difference.  The fact that it&#8217;s even close with the conservative numbers tells the story that I wanted to tell</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lazy Man and Money</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/comment-page-1/#comment-605</link>
		<dc:creator>Lazy Man and Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 23:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/#comment-605</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a very good point.  

I&#039;m sure the properties won&#039;t be a positive now, but I&#039;m betting that with some income from them the bleeding would be cut to the point where it&#039;s not a problem (if you are bringing in 150,000 a year).  I have a property that I&#039;m losing money on each month (probably about $200), but it&#039;s better than selling in this market where I&#039;d have to realize a $25,000 loss.  Over time, I will be able to raise rates (with inflation) and turn it to a positive while my mortgage stays the same.

I should have added in negative carrying costs, but I wouldn&#039;t expect those to be more than a couple of thousand a year.  If your carrying cost losses are more than that, you seriously overpaid for the property.  At that point you are probably going to have a tremendous loss in selling or choose the bleeding. 

I personally prefer the bleeding because there seems to be likelihood that things will turn around if you can hold out long enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a very good point.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the properties won&#8217;t be a positive now, but I&#8217;m betting that with some income from them the bleeding would be cut to the point where it&#8217;s not a problem (if you are bringing in 150,000 a year).  I have a property that I&#8217;m losing money on each month (probably about $200), but it&#8217;s better than selling in this market where I&#8217;d have to realize a $25,000 loss.  Over time, I will be able to raise rates (with inflation) and turn it to a positive while my mortgage stays the same.</p>
<p>I should have added in negative carrying costs, but I wouldn&#8217;t expect those to be more than a couple of thousand a year.  If your carrying cost losses are more than that, you seriously overpaid for the property.  At that point you are probably going to have a tremendous loss in selling or choose the bleeding. </p>
<p>I personally prefer the bleeding because there seems to be likelihood that things will turn around if you can hold out long enough.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Foobarista</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/comment-page-1/#comment-601</link>
		<dc:creator>Foobarista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/#comment-601</guid>
		<description>I glanced at the article, and it sounds like they&#039;re having a hard time finding tenants for their properties, so they&#039;re in a world of hurt on them.  Not every property is a good rental, and many first-time real-estate investors are awful at finding good rental properties, since they typically do their search as if _they_ will live in them.

Sure, the article is making a rather silly point about 3% housing appreciation being equal to a 3% T-bill (as if any real-estate investor on the planet pays cash for investment property!), but properties that are likely costing a couple grand per month aren&#039;t doing their net worth any favors.

Leverage only works if your asset - or at least your asset portfolio - can service the carrying costs.  If it can&#039;t, the negative carrying costs have to be figured into the overall return on the investment.  And the &quot;cost of money&quot; is a problem: carrying costs are in current dollars, while profits are in deflated dollars that aren&#039;t realized until you sell the property.

In your example, the $15K/year appreciation versus $1K/month loss likely translates into a fairly substantial actual loss if there&#039;s much inflation at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I glanced at the article, and it sounds like they&#8217;re having a hard time finding tenants for their properties, so they&#8217;re in a world of hurt on them.  Not every property is a good rental, and many first-time real-estate investors are awful at finding good rental properties, since they typically do their search as if _they_ will live in them.</p>
<p>Sure, the article is making a rather silly point about 3% housing appreciation being equal to a 3% T-bill (as if any real-estate investor on the planet pays cash for investment property!), but properties that are likely costing a couple grand per month aren&#8217;t doing their net worth any favors.</p>
<p>Leverage only works if your asset &#8211; or at least your asset portfolio &#8211; can service the carrying costs.  If it can&#8217;t, the negative carrying costs have to be figured into the overall return on the investment.  And the &#8220;cost of money&#8221; is a problem: carrying costs are in current dollars, while profits are in deflated dollars that aren&#8217;t realized until you sell the property.</p>
<p>In your example, the $15K/year appreciation versus $1K/month loss likely translates into a fairly substantial actual loss if there&#8217;s much inflation at all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/comment-page-1/#comment-598</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/money-magazine-and-rental-properties/#comment-598</guid>
		<description>You left out interest payed on the loan that gave you all that leverage, so your math is way off too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You left out interest payed on the loan that gave you all that leverage, so your math is way off too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
