MonaVie Scam? |
4,664 Comments |
[MonaVie has threatened legal action against me twice in an attempt to prevent you from reading this article below. Probably more important, the 3600+ comments which follow this article are jam-packed with research. While the organization of the comments are not ideal, you can find a subset of that information in a more organized form at the MonaVie Scam website.]
Is MonaVie a Scam?
Is MonaVie a Scam?
Was my wife targeted to buy snake-oil? Hundreds of people weigh in.
My wife is an active member in a nation-wide, young adults group. I am a member as well, but I'm not nearly as active (lack of time, plus my Laziness kicks in). The groups' goals are very noble. They aim to help members with public speaking and event planning skills while raising money for charity through local businesses. Recently my wife went to a meeting and was gone longer than usual. I got a little concerned, so I called her to find out how the meeting was going. It turned out that it wasn't a typical meeting any more - one of the members had invited some business acquaintances of his. When she got back, she told me about the meeting. It turned into a presentation of an energy/antioxidant juice called MonaVie.
About MonaVie
This juice is a blend of 19 juices with the most referenced being the açaí (a-sigh-eee) berry. The açaí berry supposedly has many, many antioxidant properties. I like to be as healthy as I possible, so why wouldn't I incorporate MonaVie into my diet?
The Price of MonaVie
The business behind the juice detracts from its value. The juice itself is not cheap. It's $40 a bottle with a bottle lasting only around one week. That means you can expect to pay around $175 a month for this juice. For many people, that's a significant car payment. For this kind of money, one would expect some sort of guarantee, perhaps a popular, publicly-traded, pharmaceutical company standing behind it. The company also doesn't publish how much of the acai berry is each bottle.
MonaVie and Multi-Level Marketing (MLM)
Beyond MonaVie juice being expensive, it is sold by distributors who are compensated in based on a multi-level marketing structure. Some of you familiar with Amway or Quixtar might understand how this works. For those who are new to multi-level marketing, the goal of the organization is to recruit more sellers and "incentivize" them for recruiting them. I'm not a big fan of such systems, it seems like the founders of the company always make a fair amount, and the people who join later end up with few sales and no one else to recruit.
The people the other night were trying to coerce my wife to buy two bottles, at nearly $100, and potentially become a distributor. My wife balked at such a thing, largely because she knew that I would want to do some research before spending that kind of money. They ended up giving her two bottles of juice to try for free. I fear that my wife may notice a placebo effect and grow a taste for the expensive juice.
MonaVie: Perhaps not a Scam?
Is it possible that it could work? Well Wikipedia references that Red Sox players Jonathan Papelbon and J.D. Drew as fans. As Red Sox fans ourselves, this is high praise. I read an article from Fortune magazine that had high praise of MonaVie coming from Sumner Redstone. That's a very influential person and a very influential magazine. I did find one scientific piece of research, a PDF by AIBMR Life Sciences (update: it seems to have been removed from the site). The clinical research shows that it does indeed deliver more antioxidants than a placebo (update: in the comments it has come out that the researcher of the study was supplying MonaVie with its acai - sounds very biased to me). However, it doesn't compare to less costly solutions, like a multivitamin, V8 Fusion Acai Berry
Update: There have been thousands of comments here... I urge people interested in making a decision about whether to buy or sell MonaVie to read them.
Further Reading from MonaVie Scam:
- MonaVie Medical Testimonies are Pointless - A lot of visitors here leave a testimony about how MonaVie may have been responsible for helping them with some medical conditional. These should not impact your decision whether or not to buy MonaVie and it's explained why here.
- MonaVie Lies about the ORAC score of MonaVie?
- Oprah Sues MonaVie
- Men’s Journal Proves MonaVie Lacks Nutrition
- MonaVie vs. an Apple (Hint: the apple wins easily)
mona vie, mona vie scam, MonaVie, monavie scam
... and focuses on:MonaVie
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4,664 Responses to “MonaVie Scam?”
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It seems that with over 3000 comments people are finding this page slow to load and difficult to leave additional comments on. You can find a nearly complete archive of comments here. and can click the "Older Comments" link above for the most recent ones. I highly recommend reading them before posting. There's a high chance your topic has been addressed already.
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Food Tech, they are clamping down and covering their own tracks.
Lazy Man’s cease and desist has proven that they look at this site constantly. The mere fact they cannot object to our arguments with universal,independant, and scientific data but with threats of a lawsuit to silence lazy man speaks volumes.
I think they would do better trying to patent the white grape juice, after all it is the main ingredent in the super drink!!!
1st lawsuit, no positive results.
2nd lawsuit, repeat of the 1st.
Sounds like the tests/studies that have been done on the purple piss!
3 tests
same results, worthless!!!!!
Food Tech,
I found the forum thread. They are disclosing where you live and who you are. First and last name. Really creepy. I don’t know if they are accurate or not, but you definitely should take a look at this…
http://www.monavieforum.net/showthread.php?t=915
They say you work for a rival company and you used to work for Hawaiian punch?
Well, this dates back to when one of them (I now know who) called Chromadex Labs and received personal info from my work order on the tests I paid for on MonaVie. This included personal credit card info. Nothing ever came of it, so I dropped it. The company I work for (Foster Farms)is a poultry processing company. Obviously, we have nothing to do with any type of juices. The person who posts as Pete Moss on the Purple Horror site is the one who believes I work for a competitor of MonaVie. He use to post as HapEinAM. The AM standing for Anaheim, CA, where he resides (according to him). Pete Moss reads this blog, and probably has posted here under a different name.
Look what a pro MVer has to say about there product. This is to a responce about the medical FACTS of the juice.
Poster: Jea 6321 (monavieform.net)
“If you are in monavie to make money, just stay off of the “bad” sites and concentrate on working your business for a set amount of time each day.”
It seems that the acai berry can fix/cure anything!!! here is a list of testimonies I just found on the web.!!!!!! Oh I forgot to add the Swine Flu!!!!!
Acne
Allergies
Arthritis
Asthma
Back
Cholesterol
Depression
Diabetes
Ear
Energy
Eyes
Feet
Fibromyalgia
Fitness
General Health / Wellness
Headaches
Heart
Hormones
Joint Pain
Knee/Leg
Menstrual
Multiple Sclerosis
Muscles
Muscular Dystrophy
Neurological
Pain
Parkinsons
Pneumonia
Shoulder
Sinuses
Skin
Sore Muscles / Cramps
Stress
Swelling
Teeth
Thyroid
Trauma
Weight Loss
It’s incredible J-man. I’m in the process of categorizing all the false claims from distributors from various articles. The numbers are quite shocking already.
So far, my favorite claim is that it helps autism as well as cancer related symptoms.
Food Tech, that’s awful! They are giving out your personal information, where you graduated college, where you work, etc. There’s gotta be something you can do!
yea FT see if the lawyers at MV can type up a letter for you also!!!!!
It shows the class of people we are dealing with. Letting people know the truth really infuriates them.
I thought that the juice would also cure “infuriate”!!!!!
Just an idea pro MVer’s, you guys should run with it!!!!
What I am seeing a lot now, from posts dated mid 2008 to the present, are more “outsider” claims. The reason why I call them “Outsiders” is because they claim they have no relation to the company and are not distributors. This makes it a lot tougher to categorize. They say something along the lines of this…
“I am a registered nurse and I have MS. My son has asthma. I am not a distributor nor do I have any connection to the company, but this product has worked wonders. We both take Mona Vie. My MS is in total remission without any meds. (no more avonex!) And my son’s asthma is now completely under control, without inhalers or steroids. His pulmonologist released him, and told me to keep giving him the Mona Vie. The results speak for themselves. ”
The writer goes to state, almost immediately, that they are not a distributor. This has been happening with more and more frequency as I am working my way to the present on this particular article.
Also, on a ton of these articles, there are many repeated posts from the supporters. In otherwords, they’ll make a post about the effects of drinking the product, and then copy the exact same statement and repost it at a later date. Sometimes, although rare, the screen names are different.
Just some interesting observations so far
money, money, money!!!!
it’a all about the money!
Nathan, the “outsider” claim comes from the top. See this post: http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/monavie-employee-calls-me-an-annoying-douche/
People at the company itself are leaving comments claiming to have never tried the juice (and calling me fat).
damn skeptics, always having negative thoughts. This stuff really works as it is acai and contains other nutrients that CAN really help you effectively including me.
For all you skeptics, go work a J.O.B. with minimum pay/wage/salary and low security and get fired for all I care. Continue being a brown noser for your boss :)
I bet you enjoy living life as a skeptic and it slowly destroys your dignity and pride working places like mcdonalds LOL.
I once took MonaVie and it GAVE me Swine Flu. :-(
We’re rooting for ya!
anon, can you post a comment which proves the juice REALLY works….or is this just your “testimony”????????
There is PROOF that your amazing juice is nothin more than white grape juice (3 test studies) Do you have, oh lets say 1 real study that can disprove these facts?????
You speak of how great this stuff is, so prove it!!!!
John H.
This cant be true, MV juice is suppose to STOP the Swine Flu!!!!!!!! I bet you got the Swine because you “just dont believe”!!!!!!
Right anon.
I’ve been noticing a lot of mv’ers using the phrase “up your dosage” on some of their posts. i googled the phrase out of curiosity. Low and behold i came across what very well could maybe be the two healthiest people alive. Or maybe its just two dudes that blew $90 bucks out their arse.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=19826412
i love how this phrase also reinforces that they are trying to sell this juice as medicine.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/150499/output/comments/page/42
Posted By: powerful_purplex @ 08/06/2008 2:04:28 PM
“Listen people, this is a miracle product. I am a black diamond distributor for this business. However, I have only worked with this miracle company for 6 MONTHS! I am already making 10,000 a week and 500,000 a year. My parents that were going in serious financial debt are now making serious money. Along with my spouse???s mother and father who live in Florida. This juice is a blessing from God! We can finally afford to call up my spouse???s parents and say ???Hey, lets go out to dinner in San Francisco, you free???? I mean it is seriously unbelievable how fast this company grows! I have wanted horses all my life so we moved to a nice ranch in higher-class homes (way higher) And now subside in a 2 acre beautiful home. Now that???s just the business half. I am not kidding you this stuff works. My mother who continuously gets headaches everyday and has severe asthma is feeling great. My father, who has tremendous fatigue and back problems, is cured. My brother who is autistic and who eats absolutely no fruits is drinking this stuff. And I can???t begin to tell you what it has done for me. God has blessed me with this amazing product, I can???t even begin to explain in words how hugely amazing my life has changed. And listen, for some people it affects them within in 30 min-1 hour (Me) but others can take up to 21 days. I know it seems like a long time, but once you get it in your system this Mona-Vie can perform miracles..”
Some of these comments I’ve come across are blatantly against the law. You’re gonna like some of these nuggets I’ve found Lazy.
Nathan, I don’t know if you have ever read a book called THE B.S. FACTOR by Arthur Herzog. If not, you’d probably enjoy it. You can substitute the name MonaVie throughout the book, and it would fit perfectly.
Thanks for the book suggestion FT…looks really interesting. I particularly liked what the Amazon synopsis said:
“Herzog goes on to call for a new breed of ‘radical skeptics’ to clear away the B.S. that is now engulfing our country.”
I’ll definitely check out that book, thanks Food Tech.
One more thing I’ve noticed is absolutely horrendous spelling and grammar problems in these testimonies. I’m not talking about complex or common errors either. I’m talking about words such as “Couch” is spelled “COUTCH”, only one period in a paragraph of words, exclamation points in the middle of a sentence, capitalization of middle letters in a word, etc… I’m talking about sentences like this one on page 43 of the Newsweek Article…
“I USE TO BE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE…BUT WHEN YOU ARE ON THE VIRGUE OF SUICIDE FROM THE FIBROMYALGIA I WAS SUFFERING FROM AND FIND SOMETHING OTHER THAN DRUGS!!! YOU BECOME A BELIEVER. ONE YEAR AGO I HAD GONE TO OVER FIVE DOCTORS. THEY ALL SAID “YOU HAVE FIBROMYALGIA AND YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO LIVE WITH THE PAIN” GEE WHAT A THING TO TELL YOUR PATIENTS…. I WENT ON A SEARCH WITH GODS HELP TO FIND SOMETHING OTHER THAT DRUGS… GOD INTRODUCED SYNERGY INTO MY LIFE. YES I GOT MY LIFE BACK. I AM PAIN FREE. IF YOU KNOW WHAT FIBROMYALGIA IS YOU WILL KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. THESE PRODUCTS HAVE HELPED MANY OTHER PEOLPLE WITH DIFFERENT DISEASES. TAKE YOUR LIFE BACK..GIVE IT A TRY WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOOSE?”
Good grief or should I say “GOODE GREEF”
[Editor's Note: I normally don't let comments like this in, but it's just another example of people who don't get it. I'm really going to have to add this product to JuiceScam.com.]
lol I love this post. It has been around for a while. So has Monavie. I’m glad to see hat they are finally expanding the company a little bit. They are getting on the energy drink band wagon, but unfortunately. The formulators continue to skimp on the the good stuff. It has been well documented that you can find a better version of their juice at Walmart for a lot less and with a much higher orac value.
So, here’s some new info, finally there is a company who got the ingredients right. NuVerus is a brand new company that’s set to offer a whole lot more than juice (210 products). We are in Pre-launch and the network marketing industry has never seen anything like this.
-The Executive team (Billionaire Backing)
-Flagship Product (Euforia- ALL organic and Highest ORAC value ever),also a profitable product strategy in place for the future
- Non-Profit associate program (THIS is so huge even the united way is jumping on board)
-Dual Sponsorship (Unique to the industry – ask, I’ll explain why)
-Future Products-(ALL Backed by scientific data and formulated by Medical Doctors)
-Bonus Structures (Income, Travel and Cars)
-Physicians Wellness Program-(Unique to the industry and extremely lucrative- look it up
http://www.physicianswellnessproducts.net/)
-Movie Trailer and Blockbuster Movie coming soon-(Featuring Nuverus and Euforia!!!!!)
Good point there Nate. In addition to the distributors’ poor grammar, syntax, spelling, and punctuation, they have a tendency to write in ALL-CAPS FOR NO REASON and a penchant for LOLing at their own lame ass comments (not one of which to date has been even remotely amusing).
I was just linked to this presentation of Dr. Schauss – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2mxWPpOMiw. He’s claiming that he’s comparing ORAC scores of freeze-dried acai against freeze-dried cranberries, blueberries, etc. saying that they are moisture-equivalent.
I WENT ON A SEARCH WITH GODS HELP TO FIND SOMETHING OTHER THAT DRUGS… GOD INTRODUCED SYNERGY INTO MY LIFE.
I guess this means God is a “Black Diamond”?
hey anon here,
I got frustrated so I needed to open up here trying to find an opportunity.. I can’t say if this stuff works, I tried it. It kinda made me feel good. Seriously though, grape juice has more of the ingredients and benefits than this stuff :/
monavie which has only one benefit … vitamin k 12% and also discovered that it doesn’t have allot of acai berry in it but only small percentage of it.
Tell me more about NuVerse or synergy, thanks.
[Editor's Note: I don't want to get off of the MonaVie topic as that's what this post is about. Further comments on NuVerse or Synergy may be deleted.]
Re: Schauss Video Claims About ORAC
LM, as you astutely alluded to, Shauss fraudulently claimed in the video that the ORAC comparisons of freeze-dried acai and other frits were based on equivalent dry weights.
The slide at 1:56 is a blatant misrepresentation. It shows a bar graph comparing the ORAC of various fruits versus the ORAC of freeze dried acai; however, it falsely quotes one of Schauss’ studies [J Agric Food Chem. 2006;54(22):8604-10] as the source of this data, when in fact his study did not report the ORAC values of other fruits (just freeze-dried acai). Schauss uses this erroneous slide to support his claim that his study compared the ORAC of freeze-dried acai with “freeze dried samples of other foods the USDA looked at”.
Looking more closely at that original 2006 paper by Schauss, he claims the following:
“From our results the H-ORAC of freeze-dried acai was 996.9 umol TE/g, which is significantly higher than that of most dark colored berry or any fruit or vegetable tested to date when appropriately converting fresh weight to dry weights(14).”
Reference 14 was a study published by Wu et al. [J Agric Food Chem. 2004;52:4026-37]. The study listed the ORAC values for various fruits, but they were not freeze-dried; the values were based on wet weights, or as the authors stated, the data were expressed “on the ‘as is’ weight basis”. So if Schauss did make any comparisons between his results and those of Wu et al., he did so by comparing the freeze-dried weight of acai vs. the non-freeze-dried (wet) weight of the other fruits. Since most fruits have moisture content of about 90%, Schauss’ ORAC comparison of freeze-dried acai vs. other fruits would be exaggerated by a factor of about 10. If we look at the ORAC values for cranberry and blueberry listed in the Wu article, we see H-ORAC values of about 92 per gram, which if multiplied by a factor of 10, would be very similar (about 920 per gram) to the H-ORAC of freeze-dried acai (996 per gram).
These results do not support Schauss’ statement that the H-ORAC value of freeze-dried acai was SIGNIFICANTLY higher than that of other common dark colored berries (note also that in science, statements about “significance” must be supported by statistical analyses; no such statistical analysis was reported by Schauss to back up his statement).
Note that all of the above bypasses the critical issue that Monavie itself does not have an H-ORAC of 996 per gram nor a total ORAC of 1027 per gram, as was reported for freeze-dried acai; Monavie has an ORAC of only 22.8/mL (approx 22.8 per gram of juice; as demonstrated in Schauss’ 2008 AIBMR study [Agric Food Chem. 2008;56(18):8326-33]), which is quite a bit below that of other common berries and fruits. It also does not address the fact that Schauss’ 2008 study showed that consumption of Monavie did not increase ORAC in the blood (verified by Brunswick Labs).
Interestingly, while reading Schauss’ 2006 paper, discussed above, I stumbled over the following statement:
“Contradictorily and surprisingly, the contents of anthocyanins, proanthocyanadins, and other polyphenol compounds in this freeze-dried product were found to be much lower than those found in blueberry or other berries with elevated H-ORAC values.”
Surprisingly, Schauss’ 2006 study did not report data on these compounds in freeze-dried acai nor did it reference any other source of data to back up his statement. However, his 2008 study reported levels of these compounds in Monavie itself that were lower than those listed in USDA databases for other fruits, and the analysis of Monavie conducted by Chromadex (reported in Men’s Journal) yielded similar conclusions about the low levels of anthocyanins and polyphenols.
“MonaVie Active juice “tested extremely low in anthocyanins and phenolics… even apple juice (which also tested poorly) has more phenolics…MonaVie’s vitamin C level was 5 times lower than that of Welch’s Grape Juice.”
http://www.mensjournal.com/superjuices-on-trial
In summary, it seems quite clear that Monavie is a poor source of ORAC, anthocyanins, proanthocyanadins, and polyphenols – which is exactly what we’ve been saying for many months now.
The last nugget on Schauss’ video got cut off when he was in the midst of saying:
“I remember the telephone conversation I had with Dallin Larsen when Dallin told me that…[recording ends abruptly]”
I wonder what damnable lie got edited out by Monavie’s spin doctors
Here’s the Monavie news nugget of the week – Dallin Larceny’s brother Shawn Larsen announced today that he is abandoning his position as mayor of Rexburg, Idaho to join Dallin in the juice-swindling business.
http://www.rexburgstandardjournal.com/articles/2009/09/17/news/45.txt
Shawn’s term began in 2007 and was due to last until 2012, but rather than continue to serve his constituents who duly elected him to the mayor’s office of this Podunk town, he’s bailing on them early to join the MLM rape juice business. What a self-serving turd! Kind of reminds me of that other former Podunk politician who selfishly bailed, mid-term, on her constituents -– the uber-conservative she-devil incarnate who shall remain nameless.
I love Dynamic Essentia…..uuummmmm…I mean Monavie!
Vogel has done his usual great job on researching the facts. Vogel, you might consider becoming an investigative reporter. I’ll add my two cents here.
The acai seems to be the “magical” ingredient that MonaVie likes to use to herd their sheep. Whether, it’s 1,027 umoles/gm. or 1,000,000 umoles/gm. it doesn’t make a difference. MonaVie consumers are drinking MonaVie, not freeze-dried acai concentrate.
People often ask “how much acai is in MonaVie?” I don’t know. The actual poundage added to a batch is a secret. What we can look at is the effect of the ingredient on the properties we can test for. Everyone knows that the predominant antioxidant in acai is a polyphenol called anthocyanin. Anthocyanins are the biggest contributors to the color (pigment) of the fruit and flowers of the plant.
Using common sense, if there is a large amount of acai added to the product, we can expect a high level of anthocyanins. As Vogel pointed out, this is not the case. THe Men’s Journal analysis of MonaVie found low levels of anthocyanins.
The sample that I paid to have analyzed also had a low level of anthocyanins. They found a level of 0.095 mg/ml. To compare: the acai berry is listed as 3.20 mg/gm. of anthocyanins. Big drop, I’d say.
According to the label on MonaVie, they use a mixture of acai powder and acai puree. Why? If the freeze-dried powder is so potent, why use any puree? The answer is because they need to list the acai as the number one ingredient on the label (selling point). The puree will increase the total number of pounds, but actually, the listed acai is two different ingredients.
We know that the acai is only a minor player in the ORAC of this product. Many of the other fruits added to the product should also be adding anthocyanins to the grand total. Yet, it’s still low!? So, what can this juice be made of that doesn’t contain many anthocyanins? Answer: white grape and nashi pear juices. Both inexpensive. Both can be used as a substitute sweetener for batch brix correction.
Bottom line. I’ve said it before: you can’t throw an orange in your swimming pool and call it orange juice.
A great post I found from an article I thought I’d share. I’m sure you guys have all read a lot of these before, but it’s good to have all the links handy on one post.
“FDA site on Dynamic Essentials a company Dallin Larsen, owner of Monavie, was a V.P. for, before it was shutdown by the FDA for making false claims for treating various diseases like cancer, arthritis and ADD using Royal Tongan Limu Juice. A lot of juice companies go down the same way. You would think Dallin would of cleaned up false claims being made by Monavie Reps.
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00976.html
Audio Links with Dallin Larsen raving about the health benefits of Royal Tongan Limu, before the FDA shut them down for deceptive tactics like these training calls.
http://web.archive.org/web/20020205072337/dynamicessentials.com/msMembersPresent.html
January 28, 2002 distributor training conference call featuring Dallin Larsen follows:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020205212919/63.167.229.232/deistream/conf020128.wma
- he uses a lot of deceptive comments on this call, much like he does with Monavie.
Dr. Alexander G. Schauss who did the 12 person clinical study on MonaVie juice is a fraud according to The National Council Against Health Fraud. Dr. Schauss office was raided by the FDA and seized illegally imported drugs, unapproved medical devices and other items at the clinic. How bogus is the Monavie clinical study now?
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-9205625_ITM
http://www.lysator.liu.se/skeptical/newsletters/Georgia_Skeptic/GS05-05.TXT
FTC on Split Pyramids ( Binary Comp Plans) same comp plan MonaVie uses. Many MLM companies shut down for using the Binary comp plans!!!
http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/businessopprule/522418-12585.pdf .
FDA Warning issued to MonaVie and sales reps for making unethical medical claims. FDA is not done with MonaVie yet, after a cyber warning, they keep MonaVie on the Radar. With all these reps making medical claims and giving their name, phone number and website out, the FDA has a way to hit Monavie hard.
http://www.fda.gov/cder/warn/cyber/2007/UTVokes.pdf
For a privately held company, they sure do have a lot of complaints on the Better Business Bureau website!
http://utah.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=139&bbb=1166&firm=21000953
Lawsuit filed by Quixstar (Amway) against Monavie for making unethical medical claims in order to build their business back in March of 08. Quixstars intent for the suit is to help protect the MLM industry from MonaVies deceptive tactics to build a business. Many examples was provided with Doctors making speeches of falsely claiming MonaVie cures cancer. The docket link does cost 8 cents per page to review the court case.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-utdce/case_no-2:2008cv00209/case_id-65339/
“
HQ Insider Denies That Monavie Contains Opt-Acai
I was reading on Lazyman and Fraud Files about how the IP address (65.44.117.2) of someone who was altering Wikipedia’s article on Monavie was traced to Monavie’s head office in South Jordan, Utah.
I had a look at the edits made by the user at that IP address and found one that was very interesting. On October 10, 2008, the anonymous user at Monavie HQ made an edit and provided the following edit summary:
“MonaVie has no association with K2A or Opti-Acai”
This is quite a profound revelation since Monavie distributors, and the company, have long claimed that their juices contain an exclusive patent-pending formulation of freeze-dried acai that has been the subject of 3 published studies by Schauss et al., whose research, as well as the patent application, identify the ingredient as “Opti-Acai”, and the supplier as a company by the name of K2A, registered to Schauss and Amway rep Kenneth Murdock.
I had commented last week that the Opti-Acai patent was approved on July 21, 2009, and I also mentioned that it was suspicious that Monavie was not listed in the patent and that they did not issue a press release about the patent approval. I found an old Monavie Product Information Page on Black Diamond University, and it specifically claims that the juices contain Opti-Acai (although I haven’t been able to find a more recent document that make this same claim).
“This frozen açai is then processed into our patent pending, freeze-dried formula (OptiACAI), the most effective and nutrient-dense form of acai available.”
“MonaVie’s OptiACAI freeze-dried powder boasts the highest ORAC score (1,027) of any fruit or vegetable tested to date”
So what are we looking at here? Does Monavie not contain Opti-Acai after all?
Ohhhh, that is very interesting, Vogel!
Nice find.
I have also been wondering why there hasn’t been a lot of hooplah and fanfare about the patent being approved. What gives?
Exceptional article LazyMan, comments likewise. I’ve got you linked into strangelyperfect.tv now as my small effort to help you.
The words on the ‘Nutritional Facts’ label picture at the top of your piece reminded me of a (probably apocryphal) story about shampoo…funny nevertheless though.
It goes that a guy approached a shampoo manufacturer with a promise that he’d double profits if they gave him a share..
They agreed…
He added the words “Rinse and Repeat” to the instructions label…!!
Oh! And to @j-man.
One ‘disease’ that acai dosen’t seem to help is ‘gullibility’. Judging by the 700k+ people who are now earning ~$3 off the stuff, I’d say that’s proof enough.
I don’t know what kind of claims this Monavie is making, but I bet that the Food and Drug Administration you be interested in the health claims they are making, see as they are not a drug approved by the FDA, and that could be a nice warning letter for the company. Maybe someone should ask their representatives in congress how this product manages to make its false and misleading claims. FTC interested in that one as well?
They get away with it, because the company claims not to be making these health claims… they have a compliance team in what I believe is a half-hearted attempt to prevent independent distributors from doing it.
Brig Hart is a Teabagger
More hardcore right wing political fanatacism in the House of Monavie.
http://brighart.com/story.aspx?newsid=51
Monavie Lies About Anthocyanin Content of Juice
The following are some of the claims made by the company and its distributors about Monavie and anthocyanins:
Monavie Corporate: “Açai contains concentrated levels of anthocyanins—a powerful family of antioxidants that assists in neutralizing the harmful effects free radicals can have on your body. Through an exclusive freeze-drying process, MonaVie is able to capture the vital nutrients found in this delicate fruit.”
Monavie Corporate: “Acai berry…contains the leading source of anthocyanins–often reported as 30 times that of the protective potential of red wine. One of the many attributes of anthocyanins is its anti-inflammatory qualities”.
[Note: This official press release from Monavie HQ is titled “The Acai Berry -- No. 1 on Oprah Winfrey Site's Top Ten”]
Brig Hart: “Acai contains concentrated levels of anthocyanins, a powerful family of antioxidants that assist in neutralizing harmful free radicals.”
Black Diamond University: “A nutritional analysis of the freeze-dried açai used in MonaVie products found it to have anthocyanins, proanthocyanidins, and other flavonoids.”
Distributor 1: Research has shown that plant pigments like anthocyanins are potent antioxidants. And it is the antioxidant power of the acai berry that makes the MonaVie juice products such a success… That dark purple skin of the Acai Berry is what contains the anthocyanins. And that is exactly what you’ll find in each of the MonaVie juice products.”
Distributor 2, Distributor 3, Distributor 4: “…20–30 times the anthocyanins found in red wine.”
———————————–
Now here is the reality:
(1) Freeze dried acai powder (allegedly used in Monavie) is a poor source of anthocyanins according to the product’s inventor [J Agric Food Chem. 2006;54:8604-10]::
Alexander Schauss (Monavie Scientific Consultant): “Contradictorily and surprisingly, the contents of anthocyanins, proanthocyanadins, and other polyphenol compounds in this freeze-dried product were found to be much lower than those found in blueberry or other berries with elevated H-ORAC values.”
http://www.slideshare.net/wayneulery/Monaviedrschauss
(2) Monavie tested low in anthocyanins according to Chromadex Laboratories in an analysis sponsored by Men’s Journal magazine.
MonaVie Active juice “tested extremely low in anthocyanins and phenolics… even apple juice (which also tested poorly) has more phenolics…MonaVie’s vitamin C level was 5 times lower than that of Welch’s Grape Juice.”
http://www.mensjournal.com/superjuices-on-trial
(3) Schauss et al. [Agric Food Chem. 2008;56(18):8326-33] reported anthocyanin levels in Monavie of 177.2 ug/mL (=0.1772 mg/mL – the sum of the anthocyanin values listed in Table 1), and the total levels anthocyanin levels detected were roughly 50% lower (0.95 mg/mL) in an independent analysis conducted by Chromadex on behalf of Food Tech.
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/jf8016157?cookieSet=1
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=22947520423&topic=7583
(4) The levels of anthocyanins in Monavie are significantly lower (at least 50% to 75% lower) than the levels in red wine.
Reference values for anthocyanin content in red wine range from 0.240 to 0.699 mg/mL vs. 0.095 to 0.177 for Monavie.
Source 1:
Anthocyanins in Red Wine = 279.6 mg in 400 mL
= 0.699 mg/mL
Source 2:
Anthocyanins in Cabernet = 274 mg/L
= 0.274 mg/mL
Source 3:
Anthocyanins in Red Wine = 24-35 mg/100 g
= approx 0.24 – 0.35 mg/mL
Source 4:.
Anthocyanins in Red Wine = 500 mg/L
=0.5 mg/mL
@Vogel
It’s amazing how short memories are… Aside from the term “liberal abuse” which made me laugh (a bit like ‘military intelligence’, surely), from what I gather from this side of the Atlantic is that people are bothered by the high levels of government spending under the ‘tea-party’ umbrella.
..er, pardon me? Isn’t the bulk of the spending to bail out all the free-marketeering gambling banks which got everyone into this mess? It certainly is in the UK!
..and er, wasn’t it the chest thumping Republicans who were in charge of this situation?
And now, as distraction therapy, Monavie seems to be wrapping itself in the flag of freedom and disguising it’s thieving activities as free-market capitalism.
Amazingly, at the top of your link, it says:
“you will NOT see this on NBC, CBS or ABC! ” etc….
Funnily enough, I’ve just read about it there. See http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tea-party-protesters-march-washington/story?id=8557120
But why spoil a good story with a bit of truth? This Monavie crap is gonna run and run. Well spotted Vogel! And keep up the good work Lazy Man!
Vogel, as usual you are pretty dead on here.
The only thing that I’d say is that most of the claims are about acai itself, which we know is not relevant to discussing the juice. It’s a great example of how MonaVie tries to mislead people though.
They also seem to qualify things like:
“It is estimated that MonaVie products have 20–30 times the anthocyanins found in red wine.”
We know that’s a really poor estimate, but still it’s not a definitive statement. So I don’t want to call it a lie even if it’s off by quite a ways, as someone might have made that estimation while on crystal meth.
<a href="http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/monavie-scam-was-my-wife-recruited-sell-snake-oil/comment-page-34/#comment-148718"@vogel
That’s the trouble when a salesman tries to validate a statement with science. You just need a scientist to check up stuff in the books and bingo – it’s all bunkum.
If, on the other hand, Monavie had just said, like Guinness did,
“Monavie is good for you”, and left it at that, then they could have kept up the con for decades.
Maybe that’s another way to spot a con; they just try TOO hard!
I must say that I am shocked at all the negative comments being posted about MonaVie!
I am a distributor for MonaVie and I was as skeptical as everyone else when I first heard of it. Now, I have been drinking it for over a year and, not only has it changed my life (I had chronic back pain before) but it has changed my family’s life!
It is sad that all of you are so busy trying to label MonaVie as a scam. MonaVie is not only the official juice of the Boston RedSox but it recently ranked in the top 20 of Inc. 500 (Microsoft first ranked at #87).
Pampered Chef, Mary Kay, Avon, Party Lite, Norwex, etc. are the same business model as MonaVie. For those of you that have actually done the research, you will know that a pyramid scheme is highly illegal in most countries and is defined as “the illegal exchange of money without goods or service.” This is not MonaVie!
Just like there are good restaurants and bad restaurants, there are good MonaVie distributors and bad MonaVie distributors. But just as one would not spread the word that all restaurants are bad, it is not fair to do the same with MonaVie distributors.
So please, think before you make negative comments; it doesn’t make MonaVie look bad, it makes you look bad!
Check out the MORE project
http://www.themoreproject.org
… this is the heart of the company!
AlexK,
Please note that you can’t imply that MonaVie had anything to do with “fixing” your chronic back pain. It’s highly illegal and even worse that you are a distributor.
Also note that MonaVie pays for the privilege of being the official juice of the Boston Red Sox. As a lifelong fan of the Boston Red Sox, I would love to give MonaVie credit for this, but it’s just paid advertisement. In fact, it’s funny that you mention that it helped your chronic back pain in the same comment as the Boston Red Sox. MonaVie has done nothing for Red Sox outfielder J.D. Drew’s chronic back pain.
Before you use being ranked in Inc.’s 500 fastest growing companies, note that LHR was in there too. For those not familiar with LHR, it was featured on by Chris Hansen on Dateline. I linked you to the fourth page of the report with the Dateline mention, but seriously read the whole thing. Listen to their employees on hidden camera. I’m not saying that this is going on at MonaVie – well it is with distributors like yourself making illegal medical claims… but that being in the Inc. 500 is not justification for having a reputable business.
Pampered Chef, Mary Kay, and Avon all can quantify the benefits of their products. I don’t know Party Lite or Norwex, so I won’t comment on them. There is no way to quantify the benefits to MonaVie’s product. I could say the chronic back pain is all placebo effect, and you couldn’t intelligently argue otherwise. There’s no evidence that there’s benefit to MonaVie’s product.
So you (AlexK) would be the bad distributor spreading illegal medical claims. Glad we cleared that up :-). I have never seen a restaurant make medical claims, but hundreds of MonaVie’s do so. Clearly your restaurant analogy is faulty.
Please think twice before you call someone negative. It’s called being a consumer advocate and saving them money. Juice that costs $45 a bottle has to prove it’s value before it can be considered a positive thing. MonaVie hasn’t done that.
See: How the MORE Project is Misusing Funds
More on Shawn Larsen
It’s been an interesting exercise trying to figure out why Rexburg, Idaho mayor Shawn Larsen resigned his position mid-term to join his brother Dallin’s scandalous MLM juice scam in Utah. According to the blogosphere, it might it have something to do with Shawn Larsen (a) being an a self-serving ineffectual jerk or (b) cheating on his wife (and mother of his 7 kids) Jennifer Larsen.
” I don’t know if he was actually committing adultery–yet, but there was an affair from what I heard from the City. They have emails and his own statements. Strange he leaves in the middle of the night to Utah. His secretary is old enough to be his daughter. Shame on you Mr. Mayor!”
[Larsens Limbo; Sep 19, 2009 12:54 PM]
” Seems to me we are missing the REAL reason he left–he was shacking up with his secretary. Bright Shawn, real bright. I hope Jen divorces your butt.”
[Mayors Affair; Sep 19, 2009 12:52 PM]
“To ‘lets be fair here’: I totally agree. He wouldn’t take any professional advice and called himself the expert in all the departments. He had no ability to work well with people and treated people very poorly. I know from first hand experience in his unethical treatment of employees that he needed a social and political overhaul. He is a type of Blake Hall and his fall from grace. His negative impact on the Mayor’s Office will take years to recover from.”
[FOR SURE; Sep 19, 2009 12:29 PM]
“The best news i have heard in a long time. Rexburg may be able to function now….he stopped anything that wasn’t for his benefit.”
[Yipeeeeeeeeeee; Sep 17, 2009 5:06 PM]
I can easily understand why most people would want to leave Rexburg (lilly-white, modestly-educated, economically-underachieving, overwhelmingly Republican/Mormon backwater town) as quickly as humanly possible, since the town’s main claims to fame have been: (a) being dubbed the “reddest place in America” and (b) making worldwide headlines after a busload of Rexburg second- and third-graders were witnessed openly chanting “assassinate Obama”; not to mention (c) having a Republican gubernatorial candidate (Rex Rammell) who openly “joked” to a receptive audience at a Republican barbecue about “issuing $11.50 tags to hunt down the president”; and (d) other assorted local racist wackos, like Ken Germana, who put a billboard with a noose on it, advocating that Obama should be publically hanged.
Not that such notoriety alone wouldn’t be sufficient cause for Larsen to up and leave Rexburg; after he first cut his political teeth (operating a smoothie shop and a Subway sandwich outlet in Rexburg), he served as an aide to legendary segregationist (some would say rabid racist), Strom Thurmond
.
Here are a few other choice quotes about Rexburg:
“Rexburg used to be a prosperous community, but right now we have one of the highest poverty rates in the state,” businessman and growth critic Bob Franz says. “We don’t have the jobs to employ these people.”
[Deseret News]
“Smith met her white husband, Keith Smith, in a Fresno, Calif., ward. It wasn’t until they moved to Rexburg, Idaho, that she confronted serious racism among Mormons. ‘Everything was white there. The snow was white. The culture was white. The food was white’.”
[St. Louis Tribune]
[Scott Larsen]
“[Rexburg] a great place to live and raise a family”
Oops…hey LM…I accidentally referred to Shawn larsen as Scott Larsen in 2 places above. A fix would be much appreciated. Thx
AlexK said: “I must say that I am shocked at all the negative comments being posted about MonaVie!”
You should be shocked; but not by the things you mentioned. What is shocking is that none of the claims made about your product stand up to even minimal scrutiny. It is a nutritionally deficient product for which people are being gouged $45 a bottle, and the so-called business opportunity is almost a guaranteed failure for all except a few of the higher level executives.
Rather than fixing, or even addressing, those fundamental deficiencies, the company buys athlete sponsorships and talking head “experts”, and sets up sketchy “charitable” organizations like the MORE Project to distract people from the real issues. Namely, you are selling piss in a bottle for $45 and telling people that it can replace real fruit and cure their ailments. For that, you all deserve to go straight to hell.
Who are you people?
Vogel,
Seriously, did you jut tell me to go straight to hell?! Can you really not handle someone being positive? All I was doing was voicing my opinion in a pleasant way… you are a terribly jaded person! I am deeply offended that you would say such a rude thing!
Lazy Man,
You are a very rude person to make such comments about me! You don’t know who I am yet you are depicting me as a lying distributor who doesn’t know my own body! How dare you…
I can’t believe people take advice from you! You are not a consumer advocate in the least!
Both of you must be Americans!
Love how those last several comments turned into name calling political statements by Mr. Vogel. Calling average hard working Americans right wing fanatics because they marched on Washington and disagreed with our President. Way to stay on topic… and to Lazyman, way to allow him to spout generalizations about these people in a forum where there is no place for it. At least that’s what you’ve said in the past to people you disagree with… Sounds like Vogel is a little full of himself and thinks he’s better than those lowly Americans who have an opinion… What an a-hole. Just my 2 cents…
I think Vogel made a good case for telling a MonaVie distributor to go to hell. It’s a little over the top, but unless you can logically argue anything his says with something other than “opinion” you lose. He has shown it to be fact in the 3300+ comments here, so you need to logically debate to validate an opinion here. Realize that you just came here and more or less said, “The world is flat” and expect us to accept your opinion when we have numerous scientific evidence that shows it’s round. Sorry we’ll take scientific evidence vs. unsubstantiated, biased opinion. Come back with science and we’ll discuss on the same level.
Sorry, AlexK, but in American you can’t legally claim foods to help you with some medical condition unless it’s been approved by the FDA. I don’t know about Canada, but I would guess that if I tried to sell a specific banana as cure for cancer people wouldn’t take that kindly. And yes, no one knows their body… it’s a simple truth. We don’t know our mind either. That’s why we find psychological tricks work on EVERYONE. One of those psychological tricks is the placebo effect. It’s been scientifically proven time and time again… hundreds of thousand more times than MonaVie has been scientifically proven to do anything for back pain… or have any effect in any one person’s body. So don’t take it personally.
Look, it is never ok to tell someone to go to hell! It doesn’t matter if you agree with their opinion, it is an horrible statement! Not over the top, uncalled for!
Are either of you scientists?
I’ve been reading these comments for the past few days. I am glad and thankful that we have people like Lazy Man, Food Tech and Vogel, willing to state/share a lot of facts about MonaVie. I personally don’t see their comments negatives at all, they simply inform us to make us smarter consumers that solely based on facts rather than testimonies.
My personal experience with MonaVie – I was approached by a distributor few weeks ago, asked me to try MonaVie. I tried a bottle for a week and I didn’t feel anything difference. I wanted to do more research myself and I came across to this site. I found the site very informative. Now I decided not to sign up as a distributor, it is not worth my time and money selling these products.
Thanks guys, keep up the good works!!
If I lived during the era, I would feel justified telling Hitler to go to hell. I think most people would agree with me. So we shouldn’t throw around absolutes like that. If you saw someone selling people a Yugo for $50,000 telling them that it would give eternal health and infinite wealth, most people would accept you telling that person to go to hell. Either prove your product scientifically or buy a $50,000 Yugo from me. That’s what you are asking others to do.
Vogel is a scientist and I’m am one as well.
@LazyMan
I think Monavie are after the wrong person…
All you’ve done is whack their name into a title and the standard SEO tool that everyone uses picked it up. Stuck in a bit of fair comment to boot.
At least you’re not a ‘nutritional food’ business competitor, are you?
This YouTube video has everything that you’ve done PLUS it’s flogging some wonder chews! The ‘Doctor’ linked to it, (a Dr Freidman) looks like a magician, or something – he has a very peculiar smile…I think there’s a surprise up his sleeve.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poSe6kIfdM4
Under the ‘More Info’ link you’ll see Monavie clearly written to be picked up by search engines as well as being in the video title!
The video content has enough science mumbo-jumbo bluster to keep @Vogel amused for hours.
Do you think discoverchews.com etc will be getting a CDO from Moan-a-vee? I think we should be told.
Joe B,
I was skeptical about the allow Vogel to bring politics into the discussion and thought about deleting it as being off topic. Then I looked into it a little more and realized that it was Brig Hart’s MonaVie-tool-selling website that is taking political sides. Vogel is just reporting the news about Brig Hart… I don’t think he MonaVie should be using politics to sell product. And they shouldn’t be using religion either as we see in another Brig Hart post.
As previously mentioned there’s nothing about religion or politics that creates nutritional from this juice scientifically showing to be a poor nutritional value. Neither add value to one looking to join a business that is shown not to be a good business opportunity again and again. Lastly, when the company’s employees (thinking they are anonymous) call critics “fat”, having “no lover”, and “annoying douches” (http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/monavie-employee-calls-me-an-annoying-douche/) it’s clear that they are the “a-hole”s.
Joe B said: “Love how those last several comments turned into name calling political statements by Mr. Vogel. Calling average hard working Americans right wing fanatics because they marched on Washington and disagreed with our President. Way to stay on topic…”
That’s a straw man argument Joe, which comes as no surprise because self-serving Monavie advocates (like you) seem to be incapable of having a discussion without resorting to such logical fallacy. I didn’t mention a single word about “hard working Americans”, but I do find it ironic that you would use that particular phrase, considering that many Monavie distributors who have posted here have ridiculed ordinary “hard-working Americans” as visionless 9-to-5 wage-slaves.
All I said was “more hardcore right wing political fanaticism in the House of Monavie”, and my statement was based on the photographs and captions that Brig Hart posted on his Monavie sales tools website. This was not simply a case of people who “disagreed with our President”, as you misleadingly claimed. The photographs on Brig Hart’s website highlighted placards with the following captions:
“Impeach Comrade Obama”
“Communist”
“Worlds #1 Crypto-Marxist”
“Endorsed by Fidel Castro”
‘The Only Thing We Have to Fear is Obama Himself”
That’s not a disagreement; that’s just rabid idiocy. Monavie should be non-exclusionary and not connected with extreme partisan politics, but the leaders of the organization (e.g., Henry Marsh and Brig Hart) have chosen to openly provide support for contentious right-wing morality crusades (like Prop 8 in California) and Republican political candidates, and to glorify people who call the President a Marxist and a communist. Some of the dip$hit Monavie distributors might think that it’s wonderful that their company is tied to right-wing extremism; many other distributors and non-distributors would be mortified by it. Either way, people should know the truth. That’s why it’s relevant and on-topic, so quit your whining.
Joe B said: “Sounds like Vogel is a little full of himself and thinks he’s better than those lowly Americans who have an opinion… What an a-hole. Just my 2 cents…”
Please don’t pretend that you give a crap about “lowly Americans” when all you want to do is exploit them to buy your fool’s juice.
Do you consider yourself to be “better” than a thief or a rapist? Perhaps you shouldn’t. Do I consider myself to be “better” than some scammer who tries to make a living pushing $45 grape juice to Granny as a cure for cancer (on behalf of a handful of greedy dishonest Utah Mormon ultra-conservative slave masters)? Yes, unequivocally, but that’s neither here nor there. I make an effort to live an honest life and my respect for equality, justice, truth is far more important than money. I have yet to see anyone in the Monavie organization that can legitimately make the same claim.
Lazyman, I almost missed the detail about Brig Hart’s R3Global/Monavie baptisms in the hotel pool! WTF???!!!
http://www.brighart.com/story.aspx?newsid=50
I am proof that Monavie really works … Been drinking it for 3 months now … I’m a soccer player who grew up overseas , when i moved to the US for soccer they had me playing on turf fields which damaged my ankles … i had surgery on them and still didnt recover fully !! i started drinking monavie Active because its high in glucosamine and i feel a lot better. So i believe monavie really works … if anyone wants to see pictures of my scars i will gladly send them.. so please reply !!!
Yeah, I thought the baptisms were really out there. It has nothing to do with the nutrition of the juice. It has nothing to do with selling a good product. It is propaganda not based on any logic.
You are not proof that MonaVie “works”, as you are not a scientific study. Any evidence you might have can be explained by the placebo effect.
Are you saying that glucosamine heals not only ankles, but scars? Because if you are saying that glucosamine has something to do with healing scars, you are committing a highly illegal act.
And if you are saying that MonaVie’s glucosamine helped your ankles… you can get glucosamine for much, much cheaper… There’s no reason to pay $45 a bottle for Monavie when glucosamine can be bought at a lot less…
Lazy, I don’t know what I can add to the discussion that you folks haven’t already covered. So rather than try, I’d just like to register my support for what you folks are doing and extend an invitation to join me for beers (or whatever alternative you’d like if you’re not drinkers) if you ever find yourselves in my neck of the woods. You folks seem like the sort of people that I could get along with.
Keep up the good fight folks.
wow !! you’re highly active on this blog and still dont have understanding !!! i said i’ll send you pictures of my scars to show you that i had surgery on my ankles … I tried it and i love it so cost doesnt matter. like everything else , if you have mercedes money, you buy a mercedes. If you have Hyundai money , you buy a hyundai !!! It’s not only for the glucosamine because thats only a part of what the product offers !! it indeed makes you feel great. I had a condition, I’ve been drinking it and i’ve been feeling great !!! And dont try to Scare me with “(you are committing a highly illegal act)”. No matter what you say Monavie will prevail !!
@Gini
I understand quite clearly, thank you. The Moaner-vee gaffa folded some years ago – he’ll do it again.
Moaner-vee will prevail…what does that mean, exactly? Surely, the law of the land and/or business economics will prevail?
Gini smart, Gini real smart!!!!!
The problem is, Gini, putting a Mercedes hood ornament on a Hyundai doesn’t make it a Mercedes. That is what MonaVie is doing. It has the antioxidant profile of store-shelf cranberry juice. Thank you for another unverifiable anecdote from a MonaVie distributor. With all of these amazing stories about MonaVie, you’d think that they would initiate at least one clinical study showing the health benefits. Nothing. Nada.
Listen Gini, I can buy a 110 day supply of glucosamine for $20. Due to what’s been said on the subject before, I can’t believe that a single serving of Monavie could come close to containing the recommended daily dosage of glucosamine. Not with everything else that’s in the bottle. I would most likely have to drink at least 1 bottle of Monavie a day to get somewhere near the recommended daily dosage of glucosamine, which would mean that I’d be paying at least $4950 to maybe get what I could get for $20. Seems like too much of a hassle to me, besides being financially irresponsible.
Now Gini, if Monavie qualified as a luxury item, as your analogy seems to suggest that you believe it ought to, then you wouldn’t have to concoct blatant fabrications in order to convince people that they need it. People would buy it on its own merits, wouldn’t they? However the “testimonials” you folks post, wherein you routinely make illegal claims about Monavie’s alleged status as a magical cure-all, illustrate a lack of faith on your part in the product to sell itself as a luxury item at $45 a bottle. You know as well as I do that it’s not something that anyone would want. Why would they, when there are analogs on the market that sell for substantially less? So you try instead to make it out to be something that people need, and a need is not a luxury, Gini. It never has been.
Now Gini, what you need to understand is that nobody is threatening you here, nor are they trying to scare you. They are simply warning you that in posting these “testimonials”, you are engaging in illegal sales tactics, and that it may come back to haunt you if you’re not careful. It’s up to you to do what you will with that information, but you absolutely need to be aware of the fact that you are breaking the law here. We wouldn’t be socially responsible if we didn’t make you aware of that fact, and we wouldn’t have to reiterate it so often if you folks were capable of understanding the gravity of what you’re doing the first time we told you.
As an aside, I have to say that I’m very troubled by these “testimonials”. Setting aside the matter of the lies found therein, you’re preying on people who are sick and/or hurt in order to sell your overpriced fruit-juice. Do you know how damaging that could be, besides being morally bankrupt? Sure drinking Monavie instead of taking medication for your creaky joints isn’t going to kill you, but what about the folks who claim that Monavie has put their cancer into remission? Don’t you think it’s hugely irresponsible to suggest that a cancer patient drink Monavie instead of seeking treatment from a doctor? I cringe at the very idea that you folks might end up killing someone in your wholly self-serving quest for the almighty dollar. The idea disgusts me.
Luckily for you I never intended to buy the stuff in the first place, so your apparent lack of a soul isn’t going to lose you a sale that you never had to begin with. However I will do my damndest to inform everyone I know about the Monavie lie, and how selling it apparently sucks the compassion out of you until you’re left seeing sick people as nothing more than dollar signs. For me this isn’t just a matter of how overpriced Monavie is. No, I want to counter the damage you folks are doing by making irresponsible claims regarding Monavie’s mythical health benefits. That’s my goal. if I help take down Monavie in the process, then it’s all the better.
Well said, @Cyberxion. Very well said.
Cyberxion — Damn dude! Where did you come from? Very well put. Amen and welome!
Exactly, Cyberxion, this is what several of us here have been saying ad nauseam for almost a year and a half now.
Thank you for putting it in new words, succinctly, accurately, and from your own viewpoint.
And don’t forget all the evidence that has been documented here showing the science behind MonaVie simply does not add up.
@ Vogel and Candace
I followed a link here from The Consumerist a couple of weeks back when Monavie threatened LM, and I’ve been reading up on the thousands of comments since. You two along with Food Tech have particularly impressed me.
Having read more than a few blogs filled with the inane “testimonials” of depraved Monavie shills since then, I’ve come to realize that more than just being an issue of personal financial responsibility, these folks are putting sick people in real danger with their lies. It just makes me sick.
Now I don’t know what I can do to help, aside from going from blog to blog and shedding light on the lies. Dunno if that’s really gonna be all that worthwhile, as anyone impressionable enough to fall for Monavie in the first place probably doesn’t want to be told that he or she has been taken for a fool. Then again, I suppose it’s worth it to try. You can’t win if you don’t play, right?
Cyberxion,
I personally going to try hit them where it hurts – in the search engines. For instance, in their last cease and desist request, they clearly referenced the fact that this article was on the first page of Google for MonaVie. And the title is “MonaVie Scam?” I think that’s got to scare off a good amount of people.
While that’s fairly good, I feel that a lot of the comments here are hidden and not properly organized. I never expected for the topic to get 100 comments, much less 3300+. So I’m taking some of the comments, rewriting them in my own words and putting them on the juicescam.com domain. That’s the further reading that you see at the end of the article.
It’s a little slow-going for me to do it with all the other things I have to get done, but I’m starting to get some outside help and it’s starting to come along nicely. I hope that in time, I can address every aspect of MonaVie and when people do an Internet search for anything related, this information bubbles to the top. Then maybe if USA Today does an article, they’ll use that research and really get it out there.
As an aside, I was reading some of the posts over at Purple Horror, and I wanted to say something for the benefit of the Monavie distributors who want to attack Food Tech’s credibility.
You distributors like to use the matter of Food Tech’s employment to discredit him, but you fail to consider that even if he worked for, let’s say Welch’s for example, it wouldn’t devalue the points that he’s making.
Why is that? Because simply put, Welch’s isn’t your competitor. Yours is a niche product at best. Now you can cite the billions in sales to-date to try and make the case that Monavie is gaining traction in the fruit juice market, but due to the nature of MLMs, it’s painfully obvious to the rest of us that a great deal of those sales are made to distributors. Monavie doesn’t appear to differentiate the profits that it makes from the sell-through of the product from the sales it makes to distributors as far as I can tell, so citing their profits doesn’t speak to the product’s market saturation. It’s a meaningless number, and cannot be used to make the argument that Monavie is in competition with anyone at all, besides maybe whatever MLM is also hawking fruit juice as a magical panacea at the moment.
Given that you wouldn’t even be on these folk’s radar until you start selling your product in stores, and only then if you directly marketed it as an alternative to their products and undercut their sales by a substantial enough amount, there would be no reason why any of your imagined competitors would spend the time and resources to employ someone to discredit the Monavie brand. And hell, at $45 a bottle, there’s even less of a reason. You’re not even in the same league as the folks that you imagine you’re competing with. They don’t even know you exist, and laugh at you if they do. You’re small potatoes.
So please people, before you attack Food Tech’s credibility, use your God-given brains for a moment. I know that it’s tough. When you’re shilling something, turning your brain on and considering what you’re selling can be downright damaging. And when confronted with something that threatens your ability to sell whatever overpriced crap you’re hawking, your inclination is to attack and discredit it. However we’re none of us as stupid as you think we are. Well I might be, but that goes to show you that if someone like myself of unremarkable intelligence can piece this stuff together, then you’re really up crap creek without a paddle. Besides, it all makes you look like a bunch of insane conspiracy theorist, and that’s not exactly helping your case, folks.
LazyMan,
Thanks for all the effort you have put into this, and thanks to all the regular contributors/debunkers for persisting against the purple tide.
I have been following this site for several months now, but only recently ventured over to the juicescam.com site to look around. To me, one post from a Monavie supporter there really defines why you are such a thorn to Monavie.
In this post (http://www.juicescam.com/monavie-vs-aspirin-tylenol/), a commenter named PurpleJuiceGuy makes the following comment:
“…Your insistance on proof only exposes your inability to understand the truth.”
Only someone defending the indefensible would attempt to argue that “truth” and “insistence on proof” were not synonymous. It seems that PurpleJuiceGuy has unknowingly confessed to what all of you have been arguing for years…that facts are a growing obstacle to Monavie sales.
Cyberxion, welcome aboard and thanks for the support!
@ cyberxion …. First of all, i never said i was a selling the product, rather i buy it every month because it’s something i really like and rather than just liking it’s more of a lifestyle! My wife and i drink it daily and the energy drink is awesome .. you should try it , so that maybe you stay off the cocaine that you’re getting from redbull ! Thanks to you guys putting so much energy into this worthless blog i might even just go into the business of monavie since everyone i know in it is making more than i am even though i have my own Business. Were you guys even drinking it long enough to know that it does make you feel great ? Or did just stop because your business did’nt take off ?
Gini, did you really just say that Redbull contains cocaine? I’m just making sure you are still propagating lies.
Drinking 4oz. of juice is not a lifestyle – it’s drinking 4oz a juice. Do you want to buy my $100 toothpaste? It’s more of a lifestyle!
Did you read the article on website? What makes you think people here are unethical enough to sell $45 juice or ignorant enough to buy $45 juice?
Gini said: “First of all, i never said i was a selling the product…”
You also don’t seem to be denying that you sell it; just that you never specifically said that you do.
Gini said: “I buy it every month…my wife and I drink it daily”
So would you have us believe that you aren’t selling it and that you buy Monavie Active at the full retail price of $45 a bottle for two people consuming the recommended 4 ounces per day each? You mentioned that you have been drinking it for 3 months; so assuming that your wife has been drinking it for the same amount of time, you have now spent a total of about $1,300 (29 bottles) – that will be more than $5,000 before the year’s over – on JUICE!!!. As I understand it, if you buy the juice from the company at a discounted price, then you are required to sign a distributor agreement, and that agreement binds the signee to the company’s Policies and Procedures. The P&Ps would require you to post your ID# and name and to refrain from making any product promotional claims that are not expressly approved by the company. This would preclude you from making any further implications that Monavie helped heal your ankles or relieve your pain.
I believe Gini meant caffeine (I hope). Gini, MonaVie EMV has caffeine in it, as well. It doesn’t come from the coffee berry, it comes from guarana, yerba mate (a suspected carcinogen) and green tea. It also has 22 grams of sugars (mostly from fruits) which may be problematic to a diabetic. It’s in the same category as Red Bull: unnecessary.
@Gini,
This is a copy and paste of my own comment that I made on another blog where another MonaVie distributor made the same inane comment about Red Bull.
And if you’d bother yourself with reading the comments here, you would know that some of us have indeed tried the juice and saw no miracles, just empty pocketbooks.
You would also know that the only distributors who post here are those that are giving out illegal health claims and medical testimonials. We most certainly do not have anyone commenting here who tried selling this faux super juice and “failed”. All of those people (monavie distributors) usually just run away once they realize that they can’t denounce facts, can’t argue with science, and can’t logically explain why they would be involved with a company such as MonaVie.
This Blog is not the place to comment if you can’t be bothered to read what’s been said here and bring some facts to the table.
Just Sayin’…
No, i meant Cocaine! Google it or watch the news sometime !! Get off the computer and live maybe the world won’t pass you by . Do you guys drink anything besides water ? Wow!! go have a beer somewhere and lighten up. People will do what they want . I’m NOT a distributor ! I am and will be a faithful customer for as long as the product is available !! Like i said before , i dont care about the price, i’ll spend a million on it if i have to ! Emv is better than any other energy drink out there ! The bottles and energy drink cost me 200.00 a month and im loving it !! 1 case of Juice is 130$ and energy drink is 68$. If you guys want some just provide your mailing address and i’ll order it for you !!
Sure Gini, that’s why you have such a vested interest in making sure the truth about Monavie stays obscured, right?
Of course you won’t say you’re a distributor. You folks have finally realized that that what you’re doing is illegal, and you’ve found a loophole that allows you to continue to make unsubstantiated claims with few legal ramifications.
Unfortunately for you folks, we don’t need you to admit that you’re a distributor for the truth to be effective, so it doesn’t really matter whether or not you own up to being one.
Now Gini, I find your supposition regarding what I drink to be amusing. You see, I happen to have an intolerance to caffeine. It sends my heart-rate racing out of control, and elevates my blood pressure to dangerous levels. I can’t drink the stuff and haven’t for years, so I wouldn’t touch Red Bull if you paid me to. Funny that, no?
At any rate, I want to wish you luck selling Monavie, Gigi. You must really be hurting financially if your friends are making more money selling it than you are as a business owner, what with a large percentage of Monavie’s sales force making under minimum-wage and all. If you can’t pull down that sort of cash as the owner of your own business, then you probably need all the help that you can get.
Holy crap, that last post of yours was a garbled mess, Gini. Do you care to take a stab at it again without pounding furiously at your keyboard like an uncaged gorilla?
Your desperation is showing, and it’s apparently having an effect on your ability to form complete thoughts and ideas.
I’m not trying to be mean, I just can’t understand whatever it was that you were trying to say there, and I think that we’d all be better off for it if you took a few deep breaths and came back to the topic with a level head.
Trust me i’m fine. You guys are just ignorant and really need a new hobby. i’m not desperate at all ! My friend make more at monavie indeed and im sure they’re doing better than you . The truth about monavie is that its a great product ! If people love it, they love it ! Maybe you should try and make something better and see what the outcome is. There’s not only Acai in the product ! why do you think people in foreign countries live longer than us, McDonalds eating americans ? What Monavie bottled for us those people grow it in they’re back yards !
with monavie you dont have to pay anyone at the end of the month . Thats why they make a lot of money ! your only employee is a case of monavie !
Gigi said: “I’m NOT a distributor! I am and will be a faithful customer for as long as the product is available !! Like i said before , i dont care about the price, i’ll spend a million on it if i have to !… The bottles and energy drink cost me 200.00 a month and im loving it !! 1 case of Juice is 130$ and energy drink is 68$.”
You don’t seem to have a firm enough grasp on arithmetic to pull off that fib. You already said that the version of Monavie you drink has glucosamine in it. Th only version that has glucosamine is Monavie Active, and the wholesale price for 1 case of Active is $37 dollars, not $30. That’s $178 a month for just one person, and unless you are hording all the snakeoil for yourself, you and your wife would be splitting 3.3 ounces per day – that would be about 0.8 ounce each two times a day. That’s doesn’t even meet the manufacturer’s daily recommended serving size of 2 to 4 ounces (per person). Are you somehow able to defy the rubbery laws of pseudochemistry and heal your ankles with only 1.6 ounces a day? That’s amazing even for Monavie!
a case is 130$, go look it up ! As a preferred customer it’s 130$ a month !! i buy one case when it’s done i wait for the other one ! Snake oil is great, i love it .
The preferred customer pricing program gives a 15% discount off retail (not including shipping/handling fees of approx 10% of the purchase price).
But the question remains, are you sharing the Active with your wife or are you keeping all that snakeoil goodness for yourself?
Gini, why would you not just buy it for about $20 a bottle on e-Bay? They are constantly listing fresh bottles of Monavie at bargain basement prices? You’d save about 50% of what you are paying now.
Keep doing what your doing LM. The attention you’re bringing will attract big time bloggers, writers, and eventually get the FDA/FTC. It’s only a matter of time. Until then, we must all continue to spread the word.
I applaud the efforts of Vogel, Food Tech, Candance, Cyber, and the rest of you guys. Keep up the good work everyone. It will pay off soon
Gini, do you feel like a ping-pong ball? You asked “why do you think people in foreign countries live longer than us McDonalds eating americans?
According to the CIA Factbook, as of 2008, americans are ranked 45th in the world for life expectancy. As for the source of MonaVie’s acai (Brazil) they are ranked 112th.
@Gini
Give it up. That hole you keep digging just gets bigger and bigger. It’s funny to watch you dig it though.
On the other hand. Don’t stop. If the lie sounds better than the truth, print the lie!
Just keep chucking unsubstantiated statements at a bunch of folks who are quite capable of checking every ‘fact’… it’s like the Fast Show. Great!
(I’m still pondering on the ‘foreign countries’ bit. What? All 194 or whatever it is at the moment?)
why would someone drink monavie and EMV??? If monavie is providing untolds amount of energy while curing every known ailment, why drink monavie energy drink too?? You might catch fire if you’re not careful.
Gini, U do know that white grape juice is the main ingredient??? not Acai. So why not save your money and buy some white grape juice from your local store?
I just sent in my first report of distributor claims to the FDA. The FTC complaint link was down yesterday and I plan on sending one to them today.
In the newsweek article dated 2008, there were 267 different/non repeating claims at how this juice cured ailments,symptoms, and diseases. Of the 267, 33 were self admitted distributors – including 3 black diamonds. Obviously, quite a bit of the other 234 could be involed in the selling, but are smart enough to not say that directly when making outrageous claims.
On to the next article
Good work Nathan. I’d love to see it if you’d be willing to send me a copy. :)
Amthrax has a good post regarding Orrin Woodward and TEAM.
Basically Orrin explains how being a part of TEAM and selling MonaVie meets all of a person’s needs except the financial need..and how that’s ok.
Enjoy, and thanks Amthrax for the post.
http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2009/09/23/but-i-thought/#comment-2127
Definitely Cyber…
I just have to finish up the organization. I’m currently double checking all my stats and preparing a cover letter and charts. I can send you quotes if you like as well as a tallied up list of every claim. It’s around 44 pages total. How can I get a hold of you?
Wow, just finished reading the 2000+ comments on the archive page…awesome work you guys! I have (had?) a “friend” who just tried to sign me up for this scam about a week ago. He claimed he and his wife “bought” a business and wanted to share the opportunity to work with them with me. When I asked them what the business was, he wouldn’t even say but kept trying to pressure me to set up a time to meet with him to “go over the numbers”. When I finally convinced him that I had no time for anything like that, he tried to sell me the product itself, claiming that it could reduce cholesterol and relieve joint pain, specifically claiming that it reduced both his and his mom’s cholesterol. I thought for sure he was selling supplements or something, then after I went online to look up MonaVie, I see it’s just juice, and from all the research and facts (that haven’t been disputed, I see) it’s not even good juice. I honestly cannot believe my “friend” is involved in this. I can’t see how anyone is. I can’t see how your BS detector doesn’t start screaming within 1 minute of conversation with a distributor. As soon as this guy said “my wife and I recently bought a business”, my BS detector started going off.
I’m “friends” with this guy on a popular networking website and can see in his photo albums that he’s recently attended MV conferences and events. So much for the company properly training and policing their distributor’s false medical claims since this guy made the claims to me last week and his photos show him at these events within the last couple of months. Now that I’ve read the truth and the facts, I actually wish I’d set up the meeting so I could hear more of the nonsense in person and ask the questions that none of the distributors on here can answer just to see what he would have said.
Thanks for digging up the truth and keep up the good work!
Elle,
The problem is that these people are brainwashed into believing it. There are some people who don’t have BS detectors. So when someone comes by and promises them, health and wealth for their friends and their families, it’s too tempting not to try. They try it and quite possibly even see some “results” based on what they were told due to the placebo effect. Tests have shown that if tell college students that they are drinking alcoholic beer they will behave drunk even if served non-alcoholic beer.
Other people may be victims of the “I paid a lot for it, so it must be valuable” syndrome. Stanford did such a test on students showing that they liked wine better when told it was more expensive. I wish I had the formal scientific name for this phenomenon.
Still others may agree that it’s done nothing for them (as we’ve seen in the comments), but heard it did something for others (likely due to the previous reasons), so they join in to try to make a buck.
There are those who are just out-and-out dishonest like you’d find in practically any business. I’d put anyone who makes any kind of medical claim with the juice in this group as they should know that medical claims can not be made about products not approved as a medicine by the FDA. Perhaps they see that $45 for essentially 3 glasses of juices is a loosing proposition, an impossible sale to any sane person, without drawing a comparison to something more expensive, and something that people pay more for, like medicine.
Of course, you ask any of these groups for any objective evidence and they start to back peddle saying that they don’t need to, or attack the person challenging the juice as “being negative.”
Oh I totally agree with you, especially after spending the better part of this past week playing catch up reading the archived comments page.
WRT the BS, my radar was set off before I even knew what the product was. That my “friend” would push and push and push to sign me up said to me that this “business”, whatever it is, is more about signing people up than about selling any product. While he did illegally make health claims about MonaVie on the phone, 90% of the conversation was a relentless attempt to get me in on the business, and not on selling me the product. I wasn’t even aware of the FTC red flags for pyramids at the time, but the first thought in my mind was something along the lines of “cripes, what is this, Amway?”.
I’ve been to MLM events before, (Tastefully Simple, PartyLite, Mary Kay) and the parties or meetings, whatever you want to call them were always heavily focused on selling the actual product itself. Only at the end after the presenter had taken orders, etc., did they mention that if you wanted to sell it yourself, you could, and they gave brief info on how to sign up. No coercing or wild claims about making millions needed. I just don’t see how MonaVie (both the product and the business side) doesn’t come across as a scam from a mile away.
p.s. my 2-year old had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch with some V-8 Fusion (it was the strawberry banana and not the acai version, but oh well). Guess he’s better off health-wise than any Mona Vie drinker. If I give him a dollar to play with he’d probably have a better financial profile than a distributor. He’s not immune to bear attacks though so I should hit up Lattimore for some pills.