MonaVie Scam? |
3,570 Comments |
[MonaVie has issued a cease and desist order in an attempt to prevent you from this article below. I'd pay special attention to the comments as there is a lot of great information about MonaVie there.]
Is MonaVie a Scam?
Is MonaVie a Scam?
Was my wife targeted to buy snake-oil? Hundreds of people weigh in.
My wife is an active member in a nation-wide, young adults group. I am a member as well, but I'm not nearly as active (lack of time, plus my Laziness kicks in). The groups' goals are very noble. They aim to help members with public speaking and event planning skills while raising money for charity through local businesses. Recently my wife went to a meeting and was gone longer than usual. I got a little concerned, so I called her to find out how the meeting was going. It turned out that it wasn't a typical meeting any more - one of the members had invited some business acquaintances of his. When she got back, she told me about the meeting. It turned into a presentation of an energy/antioxidant juice called MonaVie.
About MonaVie
This juice is a blend of 19 juices with the most referenced being the açaí (a-sigh-eee) berry. The açaí berry supposedly has many, many antioxidant properties. I like to be as healthy as I possible, so why wouldn't I incorporate MonaVie into my diet?
The Price of MonaVie
The business behind the juice detracts from it's value. The juice itself is not cheap. It's $40 a bottle with a bottle lasting only around one week. That means you can expect to pay around $175 a month for this juice. For many people, that's a significant car payment. For this kind of money, one would expect some sort of guarantee, perhaps a popular, publicly-traded, pharmaceutical company standing behind it. The company also doesn't publish how much of the acai berry is each bottle.
MonaVie and Multi-Level Marketing (MLM)
Beyond MonaVie juice being expensive, it is sold by distributors who are compensated in based on a multi-level marketing structure. Some of you familiar with Amway or Quixtar might understand how this works. For those who are new to multi-level marketing, the goal of the organization is to recruit more sellers and "incentivize" them for recruiting them. I'm not a big fan of such systems, it seems like the founders of the company always make a fair amount, and the people that join later end up with few sales and no one else to recruit.
The people the other night were trying to coerce my wife to buy two bottles, at nearly $100, and potentially become a distributor. My wife balked at such a thing, largely because she knew that I would want to do some research before spending that kind of money. They ended up giving her two bottles of juice to try for free. I fear that my wife may notice a placebo effect and grow a taste for the expensive juice.
MonaVie: Perhaps not a Scam?
Is it possible that it could work? Well Wikipedia references that Red Sox players Jonathan Papelbon and J.D. Drew as fans. As Red Sox fans ourselves this is high praise. I read an article from Fortune magazine that had high praise of MonaVie coming from Sumner Redstone. That's a very influential person and a very influential magazine. I did find one scientific piece of research, a PDF by AIBMR Life Sciences (update: it seems to have been removed from the site). The clinical research shows that it does indeed deliver more antioxidants than a placebo (update: in the comments it has come out that the researcher of the study was supplying MonaVie with it's acai - sounds very biased to me). However, it doesn't compare to less costly solutions, like a multivitamin, V8 Fusion Acai Berry
Update: There have been thousands of comments here... I urge people interested in making a decision about whether to buy or sell MonaVie to read them.
Further Reading from MonaVie Scam:
- MonaVie Lies about the ORAC score of MonaVie?
- Oprah Sues MonaVie
- Men’s Journal Proves MonaVie Lacks Nutrition
- MonaVie vs. an Apple (Hint: the apple wins easily)
acai, acai scam, mona vie, mona vie scam, MonaVie, monavie scam
... and focuses on:Dumb Purchases
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It seems that with over 3000 comments people are finding this page slow to load and difficult to leave additional comments on. You can find a nearly complete archive of comments here. and can click the "Older Comments" link above for the most recent ones. I highly recommend reading them before posting. There's a high chance your topic has been addressed already.
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Joe said:
Yes we do know, you lying snake. It was cut and dried – Hislop said specifically that his wife is pulling in maybe $200-$300 a month. He said the following:
He had been making over $200K annually from Monavie and this had fallen from about “$4K per week to $1K per week” according to Hislop’s account. He made it clear that his wife pursued the other MLM because their Monavie revenue had dropped so drastically. They clearly did not abandon their lucrative Monavie business to develop another MLM that ears them only 1/20th as much.
I am going to be s happy to see the rug get pulled out from under the feet of dishonest creeps like Joe when Monavie tanks. Karma…
Joe said:
That’s my point. MonaVie is all about the business model not the product. If make a product and have it distributed to Wal-Mart, does Target say that I can’t sell it there?
I see nothing wrong with this. You build your business selling ABC Software on your own sweat. It’s your business, ABC Software would have no sales if not for you.
To make it a real world example, I can earn a commission if someone signs up for Zecco.com from my referal. I also earn a commission if someone signs up for TradeKing.com. Both companies are brokerages and compete with each other. Neither tells that I can’t pitch the other despite the fact that they compete directly! No I also can make a commission if I refer someone to Amazon to buy an iRobot (which I love because I’m Lazy). Neither Amazon nor iRobot gets upset if I pitch Zecco in the same article.
Why don’t they get upset? My guess is that these companies (A) realize that it would be anticompetitive and possibly illegal and (B) realize that their best effort is making a quality product that stands on it’s own.
Getting back to ABC…
If I owned ABC Software, I don’t own the commissioned sales people… they are not “my commissioned sales people” (as you put it). We would have an agreement that I pay them for the business they bring in. If the commissioned sales people stop bringing in business to ABC Software because they are focusing on selling some new hardware venture… guess what? Their sales are going to down and I won’t pay them as much. It would be up to me to make it worth the people’s while to stay with me. If there is a better opportunity elsewhere I need to adjust my business – perhaps raise my commissions, or make my product cheaper so it sells easier.
It sounds like what you call “pillaging someone else’s downline”, is what I’d call “networking.” Are you telling me that these people never met at any MonaVie events? That they might not have become friends outside of the business downline?
I simply have no respect for the MonaVie “sales force” when they can’t and won’t answer basic questions about the juice as we’ve seen here. A “sales force” that can’t explain why anyone should buy the product isn’t a “sales force.” So I don’t see what people are “pillaging.”
This blows my mind. I don’t know this product, but let’s say it is “innovative” and “exciting” (two adjectives you used). If that’s the case why wouldn’t you want to “Share the opporutinty?” Isn’t that MonaVie encourages, “sharing the juice, and sharing the MonaVie opportunity”? It seems simply wrong to censor people from sharing an “innovative” and “exciting” opporunity.
Now let’s take the opposite argument, that this product is not “innovative” nor “exciting.” Why is MonaVie worried people would switch from their “innovative” and “exciting” product to one that is neither. There’s obviously no opportunity there, so no one would abandon ship. Of course this holds true only if MonaVie’s product is “innovative” and “exciting”… if it’s not (which is the point of many here), perhaps MonaVie is justifiably scared that people will move from one product that lacks innovation and excitement for another that’s the same.
It seems perfectly reasonable to me that Larry Hislop would pitch the other MLM to MonaVie distributors. I’m not going to pitch how to makes Zecco sales commissions to the people in my Red Sox fan club. I’m going to tell other personal finance bloggers that Zecco pays better than TradeKing (or vice versa). Go with what you know works, right?
Your online SEO utilities are very wrong. I’ve ranked in the top 5 for “MonaVie” and #1 for “MonaVie Scam”… I got more traffic from “MonaVie Scam.” It doesn’t make sense that there are 20 other keywords related to MonaVie that are higher than being in the top 5 for MonaVie itself. Maybe ranking high for “acai” or “acai juice”, but we have to remember that MonaVie isn’t acai and acai isn’t MonaVie.
Joe Happy…you just described so many of the upper MonaVie pins. Explain that for us, would you? Why is it ok when the big pins are leaving another MLM and bringing their existing LOS to MonaVie, but not so ok when the big pins are proselytizing their MonaVie LOS? Think about it.
Whether you leave another company or you leave MV they can’t stop you from pitching MV distributors in other downlines, but you get terminated, well that’s not totally true, all the other companies will come after you with a gaggle of lawyers for breaking their non-competes, which is not something that MV has or believes in. So if you leave MV you can go right to another MLM, or if you are still in MV you can join another MLM, just don’t raid and pitch my team about your new deal if you didn’t sponsor them personally, that’s pretty simple and easy to comprehend.
If you leave the place where you currently work and then pitch everyone of your co-workers and talk them into leaving and coming to your new company, I doubt that you’ll get a gold watch or a bonus that year. And you will most likely end up in court for the next few months.
Mr. Hislop chose to cross sponsor and pitch MV Distributors he did not personally bring into the MV business, that was his choice and his alone, and he paid the price when he made that choice.
It seems perfectly reasonable to me that Larry Hislop would pitch the other MLM to MonaVie distributors. I’m not going to pitch how to makes Zecco sales commissions to the people in my Red Sox fan club. I’m going to tell other personal finance bloggers that Zecco pays better than TradeKing (or vice versa). Go with what you know works, right?
Correct but not right. It’s not the same model first of all, the only reason people would click through is because it’s just there and in many cases misleading, they don’t even know what the heck the product really is, and it’s not because of any ongoing effort by you to promote your advertisers, unless you consider having them on your page an effort, which I personally don’t. I love you’re ‘Earn $5500 a month’ ad, and you don’t have to even sell anything, how cool is that! Talk about promoting pie in the sky. You and I both know that the chance of Mr Every Day American will never earn anything with that deal, yet you continue to promote it. Can you get us the numbers on how many people are earning $5500 a month or anything in that cool deal?
And it’s really nice you can make a living doing what you do, but I and hundreds of thousands if not millions, choose to do this business. And if someone is doing MV and chooses not to do it anymore, then they can contact everyone they personally brought into their business and pitch them, and still keep their MV business. If they want to pitch everyone that they have met through MV, at meetings or at different events like Ruby Fly-ins, the Emerald Disney Trips, the yearly Hawaii Trips and cruises, then go ahead, but you will be terminated if you did not personally bring those people into the MV opportunity, and you raid other organizations.
Anyway, we will continue to disagree on this point. I wholly support and will continue to support MV on cross sponsorship termination, so I don’t really know that further discussion will get us anywhere, you’ll say black, I’ll say white. But hey, your blog, so you can do whatever you like.
Joe Says:
I don’t make money on accidental clicks to Zecco or TradeKing – they require people sign up. So if they don’t know what the product is… and how it helps them, they don’t buy it. The difference is that I can explain exactly why they should join Zecco (which doesn’t cost anyone anything) and no one can explain what benefit of MonaVie.
What on going effort do you have to give with MonaVie? Are you telling me that Larry Hislop personally contacted all 10,000 people in downline on a weekly basis? Monthly? Even to talk to them once on a yearly basis, he’d have to call 50 people a day for each of 200 working days (assuming some weekends and vacations). If he talked to them for a small 30 minute conversation, he wouldn’t be able to sleep that year – 100% of his time would be taken.
It is on going effort for me to attract advertising. I have to write new articles all the time or else people will get more recent information from others. I also have limited resources (advertising space).
And it’s a good business… as long as you consider yourself a juice salesman… not an MLM marketer. If you know your product and can give pitches to show why it’s better than other competing products, that’s a perfectly good business. I wish you the best of luck and I’ll be your first customer. However, it doesn’t seem like the product has any value at all – evidenced by the lack of nutrition in it. You’ve done nothing here to convince anyone (not just me or Vogel or Candace, but anyone and everyone else reading along) that the product has value. That’s simply being a poor salesman.
If your business is to pick whatever MLM company is hot, Amway, MonaVie, Hislop’s wife’s business, or whatever company fits your tool sales (see TEAM), well that’s not something that is going to further the argument that anyone should buy MonaVie.
One of the things that stuck with me is that you said if you chase two rabbits you catch none.
My wife has a friend in Pampered Chef. She sells a number of Pampered Chef products. You can buy a pot from her and you can buy some (overpriced in my opinion) salsa. Sure these two products are related to cooking, but you can sell them side by side in the same “party.”
Pots are one rabbit and salsa is another one. Yet it’s possible to catch both and is done every day by however many people are selling Pampered Chef stuff.
It’s not hard to substitute salsa for juice… she could still sell both products if they truly have value. The trying to catch two rabbits metaphor clearly doesn’t apply to the retailing of the product. It’s simple, if you want the juice, you buy the juice. If you want the pot, you buy the pot. If you want both, you buy both.
The metaphor of not being in two MLMs applies only to growing your
pyramiddownline. It’s hard enough to sell one person into one MLM, but I can see why trying to a person to do two MLMs, with two sets of rules and systems is difficult. It would get damn confusing and the person would probably balk at joining either one.It shows that MonaVie is a pyramid scheme that relies more on bringing people into the system, not on retailing the juice.
That sounds like an unfortunate circumstance for MLMs… it’s a fundamentally poor system if it doesn’t work like that… you are always going to be limited to relying on one company until you get Royal Tongan Limu Juice’d out of business… or you talk to some friends to try help your wife’s business out and get cut off that way.
I do want to thank Joe Happy for pointing out that I wasn’t top ten for “MonaVie” any more. I looked at my SEO and one of my Wordpress plugins had become deactivated.
Anyway, it looks like I’m back on the first page.
Maybe someone can help me clarify some questions in the IDS. It states “In
2008, approximately 87% of individuals who executed a MonaVie Distributor Application and Agreement, and made at least
one purchase in the last 12 months, are considered wholesale customers.” Does this mean that 87% of those that applied to be distributors never made the ranking of “distributor” (the lowest ranking on the IDS)? In other words, they never got a penny in commissions?
If that is the case, are the percentages on the IDS based on the remaining 13% who did recieve at least one commision check?
Also, am I to understand that you need to be consuming a certain amount? Quote from the IDS: ““active” is defined in the MonaVie Compensation Plan as having generated 100 PV (Personal Volume) in a four-week period”. What are 100PV and what do they cost at $45 per bottle?
Is the cost of these PV figured into average earnings on the IDS? In other words, if I spent $2,000 in a year on MV and earned the average distributor income of $1,536, would it show on the IDS that I earned $1,536? or would I need to earn $3,536 ($2,000 out of pocket MV cost + $1,536) to have the IDS reflect $1,536 of earnings?
Interested in answers from all. Thanks
I’m a little busy to handle the complex math, but I’m 99% sure that the IDS doesn’t take into account the cost of MonaVie. How would it account for the various prices that people pay at different times.
Doin the math says:
June 14, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Maybe someone can help me clarify some questions in the IDS. It states “In
2008, approximately 87% of individuals who executed a MonaVie Distributor Application and Agreement, and made at least
one purchase in the last 12 months, are considered wholesale customers.” Does this mean that 87% of those that applied to be distributors never made the ranking of “distributor” (the lowest ranking on the IDS)? In other words, they never got a penny in commissions?
Why would you earn any commission just because you purchased one case of MV in a 12 month period. I don’t understand what you’re asking.
The simple fact that Dallin Larsen shares his cell phone with distributors speaks volumes.
I like this comment, it reminds me of that person posting on here a few weeks ago, she said that the results from the juice speak volumes about it.
How funny!
Do you have Larsens cell number Happy Joe, can you call him and have some of the questions answered that we have been asking?
BTW
Which one of you does he like better, Sharon or you?
Joe said:
I don’t understand what you’re asking.
Man, this does not seem to be the only question you dont understand.
j-man says:
June 15, 2009 at 10:17 am
The simple fact that Dallin Larsen shares his cell phone with distributors speaks volumes.
I like this comment, it reminds me of that person posting on here a few weeks ago, she said that the results from the juice speak volumes about it.
How funny!
Do you have Larsens cell number Happy Joe, can you call him and have some of the questions answered that we have been asking?
BTW
Which one of you does he like better, Sharon or you?
Not sure J-man, but when I read your posts I hear banjo music.
The question was… I am to understand that 87% of those who sign into a distributor agreement never make a commision?
There were a few questions there, if anyone can provide some clarification, it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
Doin the math says: Also, am I to understand that you need to be consuming a certain amount? Quote from the IDS: ““active” is defined in the MonaVie Compensation Plan as having generated 100 PV (Personal Volume) in a four-week period”. What are 100PV and what do they cost at $45 per bottle?
100 PV is the personal volume assigned to a wholesale case of MV at $120, or 2 boxes of Gels at wholesale. So if you sell or purchase 4 bottles in a month you are active with 100 PV.
And no, you don’t need to consume any product personally if you choose not to. You can just retail it and you’re active and receive commissions. So sell one case a month and you’re active with commissions and also earn the retail profit, sell two or more cases a month and you are active, receive retail profit, receive commissions plus various additional bonuses. So yes you can generate PV through your personal consumption purchases but it’s not required.
I retail from my home so I do purchase a fair amount of product, and not because I have to purchase it, it’s because I run out. But if someone chooses not to retail product face to face they can simply send people to their MyMonavie website and retail it just online and never take delivery of, or ever touch a case of product. So if you retail online would be active and qualify for commissions as well as the earn retail profit from those online sales, which you earn regardless of your rank or regardless of whether you have or have not sponsored anyone into the business side of MV.
Doin the math says: Is the cost of these PV figured into average earnings on the IDS? In other words, if I spent $2,000 in a year on MV and earned the average distributor income of $1,536, would it show on the IDS that I earned $1,536? or would I need to earn $3,536 ($2,000 out of pocket MV cost + $1,536) to have the IDS reflect $1,536 of earnings?
The IDS only shows the commissions paid out not including bonuses or retail sales. The average amount earned could actually be higher depending on how much you retail, or it could be lower if you consume the product you purchase. And as far as how much people consume personally, well that is a total variable.
Also most everyone that blogs here assumes everyone purchases 2 cases a month, well some purchase just 1 a month, so if they do that and the average income of $1536 then turns into no out of pocket cost for their product. If they are doing 2 cases a month, drinking one and retailing one, then they would be earning the retail profits from that second case each month, plus their personal product would be at no out of pocket cost. And if they spend as you say $2000 a year on product, consume it all and earn then $1536, their product is only costing them $38.66 per month. Not a bad deal.
Everyone does it differently and that’s why MV publishes the commissions paid out and do not include retail profits or even all of the incentive trips, cruises, jet credits, Ruby fly-ins, Emerald Disney trips etc, which are all expenses paid totally by MV, and then if they added the millions in rank advancement bonuses it would make the IDS average even higher, but obviously they don’t do that.
Because of the quantities I purchase personally and the way I do my retail business, I pay about $20 bucks and a bit per bottle. I can retail for whatever I wish and earn whatever profit I decide to earn, whether it be 2 bucks , 5 bucks, 10 bucks or 20 bucks, that’s my choice, so it varies from Distributor to Distributor.
Doin the math says: Interested in answers from all. Thanks
Doin’ the Math asked:
Yes, you interpreted the IDS correctly.
Right again. You have to be on autoship for a minimum amount of product every month in order to earn commissions. I don’t have the PPV chart handy but I’ll see if I can dig it up for you; or just try a Google search for Monavie + PPV.
The IDS only reflects what was paid out in commissions; it does not reflect the expense of the juice to the distributor, so in other words, deduct that from the earnings listed in the IDS.
Doin’ the Math asked:
Ha! What an F-ing joke! If I ever wanted to, I could get it for only $17 a bottle on E-Bay or Craigslist from any one of the many distributors that are bailing out of the business daily and dumping their product below cost…and I wouldn’t need to sign a distributor agreement, give up my SSN to a bunch of thieves, or have to spend my valuable time whoring myself to support an inane juice habit. Great business model you’ve got their Joe.
Correction to Previous Post (it was a reply to Joe, not Doin’ The Math)
Joe Happy said:
Ha! What an F-ing joke! I can get it for $17 a bottle on E-Bay or Craigslist from any one of the many distributors that are bailing out of the business daily and dumping their product below cost…and I wouldn’t need to sign a distributor agreement, give up my SSN to a bunch of thieves, or have to spend my valuable time whoring myself to support an inane juice habit. Great business model eh Joe?
And as you can see below, this is a typical response on this lovely little blog. Unless MV distributors post exactly what these guys want to see they respond with this type of junk. You can see all the posts from day one below, I would suggest you go through them if you can bear to read Vogel’s crap you can see exactly how these Zealots started off this blog. Nice blog rat language there Vogel. Very classy.
Vogel Said : Ha! What an F-ing joke! I can get it for $17 a bottle on E-Bay or Craigslist from any one of the many distributors that are bailing out of the business daily and dumping their product below cost…and I wouldn’t need to sign a distributor agreement, give up my SSN to a bunch of thieves, or have to spend my valuable time whoring myself to support an inane juice habit. Great business model eh Joe?
@doin’ the math,
Aside from the correct info that Vogel just shared with you, you must also consider the additional expenses you will have. You may want business cards. You may need brochures. You might need some gas to get to the meetings and tastings. You may need product to give away at the tastings. You might need a computer and internet connection to log into your virtual office and to attend online “webinars”. You may need airfare, gas, lodging for the major functions. You might need cash to attend the training sessions. You may need cash for the “meeting after the meeting”.
While some of these (cough, voluntary, never required, cough, choke, ahem) things may seem negligible, and some of them you already have, they do add up, and they most definitely are used as tax deductions for most if not all, mlm distributors…meaning most, if not all, mlm distributors use some form of sales aids that cost them money and is often not told to the inquiring distributor-to-be.
~Joe-Happy~ says:
June 15, 2009 at 3:18 pm
And as you can see below, this is a typical response on this lovely little blog. Unless MV distributors post exactly what these guys want to see they respond with this type of junk. You can see all the posts from day one below, I would suggest you go through them…
,b>Yes, please do go through them. There is a wealth of info below. Hundreds of hours of research, not to mention some very informative posts by credible professionals with backgrounds in science.
As well, you will find very derogatory, offensive, hateful, vile conversation from the very person who is posting about how horrid the rest of us are. Tsk, tsk, all is there in black and white for anyone to read.
Joe Happy, your MonaVie isn’t doing your memory any favors.
Please, anyone reading this blog, do read all of the back comments at your leisure. You’ll be amazed at what you learn.
It’s ok Vogel, you probably had a tough day at the office… kissing your boss’s butt all day long.
That would explain the cranky response when I failed to follow your response parameters and answer ‘Doin’ The Math’s’ question to your liking. I’ll do better next time.
Joe Happy said:
Not a bad deal in Bizarro World maybe. The biggest issue here is that you’ve done all this work for no profit – a loss in fact. You’ve just gotten to where you’d be if you bought a nutritionally equivalent juice. Wait, no you are still worse off. Even after all the work, you are buying some 120 oz. juice (4oz a day, 30 days) for $38.66. A bottle of just about nutritionally equivalent cranberry juice is around $4-$5 for 40 ounces (maybe 48 or 64oz). That’s going to be $15 total for the nutritional-equivalent of the $38.66 price that you worked all year to get.
And as Candace mentioned there are numerous other business costs to just get to the $1536 average. Then there’s the pink elephant in the room that no one likes to talk about… the cost of shipping the juice. That’s a significant cost as well.
Joe said:
Joe, your company’s moronic business model is based on a product that is sold to you at a wholesale price significantly higher than I can buy it for on E-Bay or Craigslist. It was obvious why you chose an ad hominem attack rather than addressing that other pink elephant in the room. Your success depends wholly on the hope that people will remain ignorant of the truth. What a sad, sad way to eke out a living.
Joe said:
Thanks for the help everyone. Joe, what are the rank advancement bonus’, and can you link me to a document that explains it?
Monavie Compensation Plan (Feb. 28/2008)
Look closely at that document. It’s another hilarious joke! The big bonuses the company brags about and uses to lure new distributors are given out only to those at the rank of Royal Black Diamond or higher. Guess how many people that applies to…SEVEN!!! Guess how many distributors advanced to that rank in 2008…NONE!!! The same 7 bastards have been stealing all the money since day 1, and here they are rubbing the peons’ noses in it in a glossy brochure complete with a picture of a Mercedes that they’ll never get to drive and talk of the corporate jet, on which they’ll never fly. Unbelievable!
The Weekly Farm Report
ORAC SCORE:
MonaVie: 22.81 umoles/ml
Almonds: 44.54 umoles/gm
TOTAL PHENOLICS (Combined plant-based antioxidants)
MonaVie: 1.48 mg/ml
Almonds: 4.18 mg/gm
MonaVie data from AIBMR Study (funded by MonaVie). Almond data from USDA ORAC Table of Selected Foods (2007)
Not sure J-man, but when I read your posts I hear banjo music.
Happy Joe, Sharron is playing the banjo….which like all your posts, speak volumes.
Almonds have twice the ORAC score of the Super Juice, maybe the almonds tested were SUPER ALMONDS!!!!
Why is this Joe/Sharron, why are such common fruits and nuts (lets not forget the peanut butter) higher in ORAC and PHENOLICS score than a SUPER $48 drink? What makes your porduct worth the cost……. You seem to “not” have a problem answering Doin Math’s questions. Can you answer this one, or will you just get mad and post as someone else?
Hey Doin Math,, notice that Happy Joe/Retarded Sharron took along time explaining the Business side of MV juice, but did he even add anything about the product, Nope. Why is this?
Joe why wont you go ahead and explain what a fine product you are selling. Why not go ahead and tell Doin Math that 3 tests have been done on the MV juice and ALL 3 TESTS PROVE THAT THE $40+ DRINK IS NOTHING MORE THAN V8 Fusion(at best)
Please JOE, now that you have explained what an awesome company MV is to work for, go ahead and tell Doin Math why he should sell MV Juice, give him some facts as to the amazing quality of your product, a few testimonies would be good, as you know it speaks volumes about the drink….
J-man said : Please JOE, now that you have explained what an awesome company MV is to work for, go ahead and tell Doin Math why he should sell MV Juice, give him some facts as to the amazing quality of your product, a few testimonies would be good, as you know it speaks volumes about the drink….
[Editor: Since I had to manually approve this comment because Joe fails to use a trustworthy IP, I have removed the insulting language. Joe, you can avoid this by not using a IP proxy.]
So does that mean you’re NOT excited about the MV opportunity?
I’ll just let Doin’ the Math do his or her due diligence here on this blog and [other MonaVie related sites] and if he or she is interested then I’ll put him or her in touch with someone in his or her area.
Doin’ the Math can decide whether punching a clock with the likes of you guys is more fun than being part of an opportunity where you wake up every morning, not because you have to, but because you’re finished.
[Editor's note: I choose to punch a clock. I didn't for 18 months and got bored. Though it's good to know that I can walk out of my clock punching job at any point. I also think that Candace doesn't punch a clock either.]
J-man, you guys seem to have all the answers, between the 100s of hours (hahaha) of research as Candace put it, and the AIBMR studies, Chromadex tests. Almost forgot Food Tech’s cool Farm Reports comparing MV to apples and raisins and peanut butter and almonds and who knows what’s next, maybe the front fender of a 57 Chevy. [Editor's note: I fail to see any potential nutrition in the front fender of a '57 Chevy. The fact that you do, explains why you sell MonaVie... you care nothing about the value of the product you sell, just that you can con people into buying it and reselling it in your pyramid.]
This is your preverbal, One-Stop-Information-Shop! So now you and everyone else reading the 100s of hours of research here can make an informed decision to whether they want to, or don’t want to:
1. Purchase retail MV product.
2. Engage the Business Opportunity.
What more could we want or need?? I’m tellin’ ya!
And as far as giving Doin’ the Math information, I will gladly do that. But I don’t do my business on blogs and if Doin’ the Math is interested I’ll gladly post an email where I can be contacted and I will make sure someone on my team closest to Doin’ the Math gets in touch.
[Editor's note: I will likely delete this e-mail address as I don't want to enable people to "Engage the Business Opportunity", when they justify the cost/nutritional value of the product.]
Here is a preliminary cost comparison of Monavie’s new energy drink, eMV, versus 3 other top-selling retail energy drinks, Red Bull, Monster, and Rock Star. The prices quoted for Red Bull, Monster, and Rockstar were obtained from Nextag.com (supermarket sale prices may be lower).
eMV
Can size = 8.5 ounces
Wholesale price of 24-can case = $68 (shipping not included)
Wholesale price per ounce = $0.33
Red Bull
Can size = 12 ounces
Retail price of 24-can case = $46
Retail price per ounce = $0.16
Monster
Can size = 12 ounces
Retail price of 24-can case = $30
Retail price per ounce = $0.10
Rock Star
Can size = 16 ounces
Retail price of 24-can case = $41
Retail price per ounce = $0.11
eMV at wholesale rice sells for twice as much per ounce as Red Bull and at least 3 times as much as Monster and Rockstar. In order for the distributors to make any profit at all, they will have to jack the price up considerably beyond the wholesale price quoted above. If the markup on eMV is comparable to that of Monavie’s other products, the retail price would be somewhere around $4 per 8.5 ounce can ($96 per 24-can case), or roughly 50 cents per ounce (5 times more than the least expensive competitor).
Once again, Monavie manages to invent an inferior mousetrap.
The Monavie business “opportunity” is akin to providing distributors with products at the same price they retail for in stores and then telling them that they can keep any profits if they manage sell it at a 40% to 50% markup. No one in their right mind is going to buy into that model unless they are a distributor chasing a rank advancement of a complete and utter moron. It’s like selling distributors $10 bills for $20 each and telling them to try to profit from selling those $10 bills for $30 each.
All of the FACTS (apples/almonds raisins/plums and peanut butter) Food Tech has posted came for MV”S study!!! YOUR COMPANY!!!
Can you explain why your super drink is so poor in so many areas???? This is from YOUR STUDY!
DO you see what Happy Joe Done why I ask him to explain why the juice is 10x overpriced….. NOTHING, just commented about other than the FACTS… This is what you will have to do Doin Math (if you sell this crap) when someone want the TRUTH, you will have to lie, and direct there attention to some amazing testimony! (which will speak volumes about the purple piss)
Happy Joe, why cant you explain the Low ORAC and PHENOLICS values of your product. The test was done by your company. can you expain why anyone should spend $45 on a botttle of white grape juice when they can eat 3 or 4 fuji apple a week and get better results??????
You seem to be able to explain everything thats not related to FACTS!!
Ask him DOIN MATH, ask him to explain why the “super drink” has been proven to have SUPER low ORAC and PHENOLICS scores. He will lead you in all sorts of directions, but the answers, there will be NONE.
[Editor: Since I had to manually approve this comment because Joe fails to use a trustworthy IP, I have removed the insulting language. Joe, you can avoid this by not using a IP proxy.]
All my IPs are trustworthy and they are real, they just don’t happen to pinpoint my home location, which frankly is none of your business. I choose to protect my home location and my identity for the same reason that you do Lazy Man. I’m not purchasing anything here with a credit card, and I’m not selling anything here, so why is it even any of your or anybodys business to know exactly where I’m located.
I don’t have a clue who you are Lazy Man , what his background is, so I can’t trust that you will not disclose this information, especially to the other anti-MV bloggers. So I will continue to login and post through several servers I own or lease in various locations around the country or out of the country. Anyone I deal with in business knows exactly who I am and where I am. So If the IP thing is an issue for you Lazy Man, then by all means, edit or block away, I really couldn’t care less.
It’s ok Joe/Sharron, you probably had a tough day at the office… kissing your boss’s butt all day long.
Now, would you like to answer some questions? Or do you still not care that what you are selling is 10x overpriced?
[ I have removed the insulting language. Joe, you can avoid this by not using a IP proxy.]
Getting mad, this is what happens when all of the MV guys CAN NOT provide FACTS!!!!!!
j-man says:
June 17, 2009 at 4:44 am
All of the FACTS (apples/almonds raisins/plums and peanut butter) Food Tech has posted came for MV”S study!!! YOUR COMPANY!!!
Can you explain why your super drink is so poor in so many areas???? This is from YOUR STUDY!
Nope, can’t explain it, but I can explain how to retail MV or work the MV business. I don’t fully understand the studies, just like you don’t understand them.
When someone has questions about the studies which I can’t personally explain then I just get them to email the question or chat with a product specialist.
So before answering J-man’s post I decided to run down to Wal-Mart and try a little experiment. I went into the pharmacy area, picked up a pack of Equate ibuprofen and a name brand of the same size. I then asked a sales clerk in the area what the difference was between the two products and why the price difference, and she said, “I dunno”. Then I asked her about some of the ingredients on the label and why some were different between the Equate and brand name product, and could she explain to me what they were, and she said, ” I dunno”. I then asked her if there were any studies done between the two products, did one work better than the other and visa versa, is one better quality than the other and is that why the price difference, and she said, ‘I dunno.’
But she then told me the pharmacist could probably give me all the information I was looking for, but I said, no thanks, I would rather just ask another sales clerk in the pharmacy area instead, and asked if there was there another one I could speak with that knows more about the products. She said she doubted that any of the sales clerks know anything about the products in this department, and they just make suggestions based on what the pharmacist tells them to suggest, but they really didn’t know why.
And that’s exactly what goes on here on this blog. So if you want scientific and product questions answered, don’t ask the sales people, we know what the literature tells us. Go talk to the frikkin’ pharmacist, and in this case a MV product specialist, and stop badgering MV distributors for scientific information and product comparisons.
So J-man, if you would like the direct line to a MV product specialist that can answer all of your burning product and science questions, I can hook you up. Otherwise, no, I can’t answer the questions other than what I read in the literature and on the corporate website.
Joe, that’s another foolish argument. Pharmacies have to keep track of thousands of products. You have to keep track of ONE and yet you are incapable of dispensing reliable information about it. It’s also idiotic to equate asking a pharmacist for product information with phoning Monavie product support. Pharmacists have advanced university degrees in their field of endeavor. If I were to call Monavie product support I’d get to talk to some unqualified dolt like Chantal, and I’ve seen the type of idiotic dishonest answers she provides to consumer questions. Every pharmacy is required to have a pharmacist on hand to answer questions; they don’t shove you off with some peon’s 1-800 number.
BTW Joe, if you can’t answer these questions yourself, and instead are reliant on Monavie product support to handle them for you, than you can’t really call yourself an independent business owner, anymore than a newspaper delivery boy can. You are a no-nothing minion who does nothing more than pass an overpriced bottle of piss from A to B. You seem be, at best, a middleman who brings no value to the transaction. Quite the contrary; people can buy the juice from E-Bay or Craigslist for less than the company sells it to you wholesale.
To anyone reading this blog and contemplating becoming a MonaVie distributor:
Be aware that every simple question you ask is going to be unanswered or redirected in exactly the same manner that Joe Happy is modeling on this blog.
Think about how frustrating just that one aspect of trying to run a business might be. And then think about all of the other facts that raise red flags, such as how MonaVie is lower in antioxidants than many common grocery items that cost literally pennies per serving, and why the exorbitant cost of the juice, and why only about 13% of MonaVie distributors ever even get one commission check, and most MonaVie distributors lose money, making less than minimum wage peddling a faux super juice product with less nutritional/antioxidant value than simple concord grape juice.
Keep posting, Joe. You make a mockery of the sham “business” you represent. But you are a compelling argument for avoiding MonaVie like the plague.
Joe,
I would be happy (no pun intended) to talk to a “product specialist” from MonaVie.
Please be aware. Product specialists, for most operations, are usually people with a couple of training seminars under their belts.
If you can get me a phone number to an actual scientist that works for MonaVie, that would be better.
Since, I am quite certain that MonaVie doesn’t have its own bottling operation, the people with actual knowledge probably work for their distributor.
Please post the number(s) here.
So I just want to make sure I have the math correct here. Am I to understand that 87% of the people that sign a distributor contract lose 100% of the money paid to MV? Assuming juice costs of $2,000 per year, of the remaining 13% who ever make a commision 45% of them will lose approximately $500 per year ($2,000 less $1,536 from the IDS)? Another 37% of that 13% receiving commision will basically break even and be no better off financially? In other words, of the 13% who do recieve a commision, 82% of them still earn nothing or lose some portion of their funds? So approximately 3% (18% x 13% who get a commision)ever are cash flow positive?
Does my math work out the following as well:
I get 1000 friends and family to join MV and pay in $2,000 for the year for total cash of $2,000,000.
870 lose $2,000
130 will receive some commision or:
58 lose $500 (45% of 130)
48 break even (37% of 130)
13 make roughly $2,000 (10% of 130)total income of $26,000
5 make roughly $7,000 (4% of 130) total income of $35,000
3 make roughly $17,000 each (2% of 130) total income of $51,000
1 will make roughly $27,000 (1% of 130) total income $27,000
and 1 will make what is left from the original $2,000,000 or roughly $1,800,000?
I rounded to the nearest full number (with such a small sample) so I assume this example is off slighly, but do I basically have this right?
Also, I did try to understand the commision brouchure Vogel linked with the additional bonus’ that Joe stated were not included in this calculation, but it was extremely difficult to fully understand and I’m not 100% familiar with all the terms. But I believe it basically said those that are in the top 1% get significant bonuses on top of the figures above with very little bonuses for those in the bottom 99%.
I want to fully understand this. If anyone can please provide further clarification or point out where my math is wrong, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again.
Happy Joe,
Regarding IP Addresses… it’s obviously not trustworthy according to Akismet. You should contact them about why they treat your servers as untrustworthy if you want to avoid be blocked or edited. You are creating your own problems.
Regarding the salesman issue… if you want me to buy the product you should know it. Obviously representatives from Advil weren’t selling you any pills. If they were, you’d have a good argument if they don’t tell you the difference between their product and a generic.
If MonaVie puts itself on the store shelf at Target, I wouldn’t expect anyone there to be able to answer questions about it either. They aren’t actively engaging with me trying to make a sale. They aren’t commissioned salesmen (or saleswomen). They just put the products on the shelf and say “buy if you want to.”
As a commissioned salesman, who is making a sale, it’s expected that you know your product. Otherwise you provide no value for your service.
It’s increasingly obvious why so many MonaVie distributors have gone towards making illegal medical claims…
… They realize that they are asking people to pay a crazy, irrational amount of money ($40 for 25oz bottle)… for a product proven to have little nutritional value (from the 3 studies we have)… and since they aren’t trained to know the product (as Joe Happy now says)…
… what are they left to do? Make up some justification of the price… best plan for that is to give the illusion it has some medical properties since we know people are willing to pay to cure their medical issues.
Vogel Said : You are a no-nothing minion who does nothing more than pass an overpriced bottle of piss from A to B.
It’s actually a KNOW-nothing minion. Minions and peons and bears oh my.
Vogel also said : If I were to call Monavie product support I’d get to talk to some unqualified dolt like Chantal, and I’ve seen the type of idiotic dishonest answers she provides to consumer questions. Every pharmacy is required to have a pharmacist on hand to answer questions; they don’t shove you off with some peon’s 1-800 number.
Realllly, so when I go over to Wal-Mart at 11 or 12 pm tonight there will be a Pharmacist there to answer my every question about Equate ibuprofen, cooool.
So folks, Vogel knows everything there is to know about MV, and remember, according to Vogel everyone is a dolt at MV so anyone needing information about MV corporate or the product or the comp plan and commissions etc, etc, just ask Vogel, there is no point in contacting anyone at MV corporate, according to Vogel you’ll just get a dolt or a peon, or quite possibly a minion. So just ask Vogel, he sees all and knows all.
Vogel also fancies himself quite an expert when it comes to starting your own successful home based business, so pay close attention when he tells you all about it. Unfortunately he can only tell you all about it before he leaves for his job in the morning or after he punches out from his job and heads home after 5pm.
Vogel said : BTW Joe, if you can’t answer these questions yourself, and instead are reliant on Monavie product support to handle them for you, than you can’t really call yourself an independent business owner, anymore than a newspaper delivery boy can.
Yes Vogel, that’s why there are 800 information numbers and information websites on most products, that’s why there is even a Butter Ball Turkey hot line haha, that’s funny in itself. So as everyone can see when you get too close to Vogel’s goal posts, he simply moves them farther back, also making up rules as he goes along to back his convoluted logic.
I guess my car salesperson should know if I used Dexron or Dexron II or IIE or IIE(H) ATF, or is it Type F or CJ, or H in my transmission, or would it be ok to ask a service consultant. So according to what Vogel says everyone that sells anything should know absolutely everything about their product, unless of course they have too many products, then the rules change. Heaven forbid we use our product and business support consultants at MV corporate, which are put in place for all Distributors to use, just another great service provided by MV corporate, what a great company, they save us a fortune on not having to hire our own support staff.
Joe Happy said:
How is that a relevant question? You are unable to answer questions about Monavie 24-7, or am I wrong — can yo only asnwe Monavie questions during a specific time window???
You sure are willing to blather ad nauseum about anything that doesn’t involve Monavie (your product).
Joe Happy said:
I said nothing of the kind. You sell one stupid product…fruit juice. You can’t answer basic questions about it and you have no defense for the fact that your company’s own studies have shown it to be, essentially, nutritionally valueless. You make a business out of extracting commissions for middle-manning fraudulent fruit juice. You should at least have the decency to call a spade a spade and either admit that you don’t care enough to know the truth or that you purposely avoid talking about it because it hinders your ability to bilk money from people. Either way, that’s a horrible way to try to make a living. I’d have more respect for you if you were panhandling openly, instead of doing so using a Monavie bottle as camouflage – at least panhandling is victimless; not so with Monavie.
Joe Happy said:
I don’t know if it is heaven forbidding you or your own obstinacy and dishonesty, but in either case, you could have gotten off your ass long ago and put these “consultants” to the test, and you could have posted their answers on this forum (since you are actively participating and yet openly professing your ignorance about the products characteristics). We all know that Monavie’s “consultants” don’t have answers for the big issues because the big issues aren’t questions – they are FACTS.
Regarding the question “why does the data show that Monavie is a nutritionally inferior product”, the correct answer is “because Monavie is a nutritionally inferior product”. Why would we expect Monavie’s minimum wage phone clerks to provide a more insightful or honest answer than that?
We had the same offer from a distributor long ago. They asked us to give them a list of questions and that they would go to Monavie and get the answers. We gave them the questions; the distributor never returned (or at least not under their original identity…Joe!!!!).
Joe Happy,
Your sarcasm about Vogel is humorous… he’s shown to know more than any of the dozens of distributors that have come through here. To my knowledge, he’s never been shown to be incorrect in the 3,000 comments here, and has probably about 50 open questions that no MonaVie distributor has been willing to address. So yes, I think it’s safe to say that Vogel knows more than anyone willing to go on record. If MonaVie representatives aren’t willing to answer questions on record, it shows me they have something to hide.
Will they allow me to record a conversation with the 1-800 number and post it publicly?
It turns out that my wife is a pharmacist and while she hasn’t done retail pharmacy in some time her best friend was a Wal-Mart pharmacist for a number of years. The answer to your question is that if the pharmacy is open, a pharmacy must be on duty.
As for your Ibuprofen question, it’s similar to asking if someone is available to ask you about the manufacturing process for a garment. You might want to know if it was made in a sweat shop, but it’s not reasonable to expect a consultant of each clothing to be available to you. As Vogel says, they sell thousands of products and can’t have thousands of people in the store to answer your questions. However, you only sell one product, it’s expected that you know it.
Of course as Vogel puts it, you are unable to answer questions about MonaVie all the time. Pharmacists are available for face-to-face questions. Does MonaVie provide that face-to-face support? Isn’t that your job?
The other answer of course is that you can do a little Internet research. Perhaps you realize that generic drugs are cheaper than brand name ones and you want to save money on your medicine. So you go to Google and type in “save money medicine” (you don’t include the quotes, because you want the information quickly). The first result may surprise you, (Ahem: Save Money on Medicine) but give it a look anyway. You’ll quickly be rewarded with a link to the FDA’s definition of the difference between generic and brand name drugs (see the third bullet point).
My point with the above is that the information is available from the source… and people are willing to link to the source. So if I ask what are the percentages of fruit juices in MonaVie will I find a reference on the web that points me to the definitive answer on MonaVie.com? No, there’s no answer on MonaVie.com. There’s not even a nutritional label that the public can access on MonaVie.com.
One thing that no one has mentioned here is the ethics of selling a juice that is shown to be overpriced and having inferior nutrition to products 1/10th the price. Joe Happy is content to bury his head in the sand and say, “I don’t know, but ask this other biased resource” when it comes to the nutrition of the product. I don’t understand how one could ethically stand face-to-face with someone and sell a product that, by his own admission, he doesn’t understand ["I don't fully understand the studies"]. I think a reasonably ethical person (which is perhaps impossible to define) would have difficulty walking up in the morning making a living like that.
Joe,
The studies (AIBMR or the USDA ORAC Table) are very simple. All you are interested in is the data. How they performed the analysis is not important to anyone, except the analysts.
You don’t have to be a scientist to read the data. If you have basic math skills, calculating the product equivalents is easy.
I believe that it’s probably far easier than trying to figure out MonaVie’s comp plan.
Will you be posting the phone number of someone that can answer the basic questions on phenolics and Orac values?
Doin the Math said:
Interesting analysis. I’m happy to confirm your calculations.
First, yes the IDS says that 87% of the people who sign a distributor agreement are considered “wholesale customers” and never receive a single commission check. The IDS shows data for the remaining 13% of “ACTIVE distributors” (ie, those who signed a distributor agreement and did receive at least one check). Adding up the number of distributors at each rank, we can see that a total of 80,789 distributors qualified as “active”. By extrapolation, 621,454 people executed a distributor agreement; 540,665 of them were “wholesale customers” and 80789 were “active distributors”.
Secondly, as to how much money the wholesale customers feed into the system, the only expenditures that we can assume for sure that they made are (a) the $39 signup fee and (b) at least one case of Monavie at a cost of $130 (as a side note, the attrition rate is probably very high and it would be reasonable to assume that at least half of those wholesale customers cancel after the first case, but that’s not relevant to your calculations).
Third, as to the minimum amount spent per year, distributors have to order at least one case per month on autoship. At $130 per case, their minimum annual expenditure would be $1,560; about $1,800 with 15% added for tax/shipping. Note that if someone were actually consuming it at the “recommended” 4-ounces per day, they would go through 59 bottles (round it up to 60 for spillage) or 15 cases per year – that’s $1950; $2,242 with tax/shipping. So, I would have to say that the estimate of $2,000 for your analysis per year (minimum) is spot on.
Moving on, yes, it appears that you are correct that 45% (36,295 out of 80,789 of distributors will lose approximately $500 per year ($1,536 minus $2,000), and that 37% (30,239) will roughly break even ($2,032 minus $2,000).
Lastly, if we add all these numbers up, we can see that there was no positive cash flow for 607,199 out of the 621,454 people who signed a contract with the company (the 540,665 “wholesale customers” and the 66,534 active distributors at the bottom two levels, who received checks but lost money or just broke even after juice costs). That corresponds to 97.7%.
In other words, 2.3% of those who signed a distributor agreement had positive cash flow. Your estimate of 3% was extremely accurate; perhaps a bit too generous if anything.
I should mention that talking with MonaVie headquarters isn’t unprecedented here. It was done in comment 472 when MonaVie distributor, Ryan/KingTut presented some questions. His upline had told him that drinking MonaVie was equivalent of eating 13 fruits. He tried to show that MonaVie was a cost savings to buying 13 fruits… he came back with his tail between his legs.
The MonaVie expert Sarah Brown (Product Specialist) said:
Lazy Man thoughts: – Vogel showed mathematically that it was around 2,000 using AIMBR’s research… AIMBR’s research is biased to benefit MonaVie. MonaVie offered no source to their statement… Vogel did.
Lazy Man thoughts: – It’s worth noting that they refer to “commonly eaten fruit and vegetables”… For one, MonaVie doesn’t have ANY vegetables that we know of… so why compare to those? For another MonaVie itself says that it does not refer to “specific vitamins, minerals, or other nutrients your body needs.” In other words, it’s empty calories like my photo of the label shows.
This is obviously being misrepresented as Ryan/KingTut was not aware of this information and quite possibly used the same argument with customers that it was an economic savings. MonaVie doesn’t put this information on MonaVie.com. People don’t get this information unless they are suspicious enough to call the 1-800 number.
It’s important to note that MonaVie’s label lists it’s protein as 0 grams (as in no protein at all per serving). The expert showed that a days serving of MonaVie has 1 gram of protein…
… The USDA recommends 75 grams of protein in a 2000 calorie diet (source). So MonaVie accounts for 1/75th of your protein (i.e. not significant), and it’s quality is ranked lower than eggs… which are ranked lower than those from plant sources (i.e. where MonaVie gets it’s protein). In layman’s terms, it’s infitesimile amounts and poor quality. In defense of this person, they are open with it… if you are lucky enought to ask the right question:
What’s my point with all this?
1) MonaVie distributors are profiting from the convenient ignorance of “the system”. In other words, Ryan’s upline didn’t pass the correct knowledge to him (about the 13 fruits) and he passed it on in his sales pitch… obviously misleading people along the way. We don’t know how far up or down in his line it goes… but we’ve seen it from other distributors, so we know it’s an epidemic in multiple lines.
2) MonaVie’s website states, “Delivers the antioxidant capacity of approximately 13 servings of fruits and vegetables in just four ounces.” That is true if you measure antioxidant capacity in ORAC, but that’s not necessary the right measure. We’ve looked at other measures of antioxidants (see Food Tech) and it’s not even close.
3) All the talk about MonaVie and protein is silly, there’s no point in it.
So what did we learn from the MonaVie expert Sarah Brown (Product Specialist)? We learned what we already knew and what we already has said.
We also learned that MonaVie gives information to distributors that it doesn’t make available on it’s website or to the public. A lot of this isn’t available in it’s FAQ. Why doesn’t MonaVie want to tell you about it’s product? Probably because they are legally bound to give good information to distributors, but that they are not legally required to put this information on their website.
See if you can look at this brochure (from R3Global, Brig Hart’s tools company) without vomiting all over the pictures of Steve and Gina Merritt on your monitor.
http://www.stevemerritt.com/pdfs/TreasureChest.pdf
The recruitment pitch for the Monavie business opportunity is being fraudulently misrepresented with pictures of private jets and sports cars and false promises of fast easy money.
Vogels math is correct in regards to the ORAC of MonaVie. It’s closer to 2,000 umoles than 4,000 (MonaVie’s specialist). A single Fuji apple still wins. Average size of one apple: 150 gms. Total ORAC: 3884 umoles.
So what you are saying Happy Joe is that if someone ask you for FACTS reguarding YOUR product, your answer is to compare some asprin? Did you notice if one asprin company was claiming to cure cancer???? Or how about that trans. fluid comment, what will it cure? Did the sales person at Wal Mart tell you that buying this asprin will stop Swine lu in it’s tracks….
See what I was saying Doin Math, when you want FACTS to support the ridiculous price of this white grape juice this salesman (happy joe/sharron) has NOTHING!
Like his drink he too is full of Sh.T!!!!!
LIKE I SAID. FACTS SUCK, WHEN THEY ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE.
Joe cant answer REAL questions so he fills in the blanks with Tranny fluid and asprin BS. Was all that in the MV training manual?
You should be proud of yourself Joe/Sharron, stealing money from your family and friends. Then again, I am sure that is your American Dream…..
It is my personal opinion that Joe Happy just comes here to regurgitate without reading.
Several times Joe Happy has made reference to some of us by name as “punching a clock” or “kissing our boss’ behind”.
Lazy Man pointed out that he chooses to punch a clock right now, as he got bored when he wasn’t, but he can discontinue the clock punching at any time, at his own discretion.
I have also mentioned numerous times that I am self employed.
And then just this past Monday, Vogel replied this to Joe Happy:
Simple clarification here. Nothing to do with MonaVie, but then most of Joe Happy’s comments have nothing to do with MonaVie.
I can only begin to imagine how much Joe’s downline wants to bang their own head (or Joe’s) against the wall.
From what’s been displayed here from MonaVie distributors, it could make one wonder if drinking MonaVie juice impairs comprehension.
Serious gag reflex setting in.
I just adore this comment in the pink box under the heading of “nugget”
Especially when you scroll back up and look where Merritt’s hand is located in the picture in front of the house.
Won’t mean much to most of you…but being as this is what I do for a living…that hand should most definitely be elsewhere. The only reason that a photographer would leave that hand there would be to make the obvious insinuation….success is money is power is sex. Or; success in MonaVie will bring you money which will bring you power which will make you sexy or give you sex.
It is obviously not a snapshot, it was a photo session, as can be plainly seen in the film strip shots further in the “magazine”.
Somewhat surprised there wasn’t also a Bible sitting on the hood of the car…
Lazyman said:
I was looking through a 2009 article on Monavie from a State island news magazine (SI Live), and found a very interesting quote from Monavie’s PR rep, Julie Jenkins:
This clearly establishes that Monavie should NEVER be considered as a replacement for fruit and vegetables. Therefore, one should not consider that the cost of Monavie offsets the cost of fresh produce; in fact, according to the company’s spokesperson, the cost of Monavie would be additive with one’s produce budget, (inflating it by somewhere around 100%).
Vogel,
Now that was an interesting read, especially the comments under the article. http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/new_staten_island_health_craze.html
Doin’ the math, or anyone checking into the MonaVie compensation plan should read this article you’ve linked to. The Author, Maura Yates states:
Hey Joe/Sharron:
If we could get that #, it will be the 1st (and only) fact you have posted! Well other than the fact that you haven’t posted any facts!!!!
Candace says:
I just adore this comment in the pink box under the heading of “nugget”
“Nugget: “Get excited about
what you have your hands on. Do
the basics and do them often.””
Somewhat surprised there wasn’t also a Bible sitting on the hood of the car…
Under the Nugget, it says:
Why: “To continue helping our friends get financially free and get the Orphan Kids off the streets of Brazil.” Spread the Good News of Jesus Christ to All.
Interesting capitalization and interesting that the last sentence is not included in the quotes.
I am surprised that the Church doesn’t recognize the cult nature of some of these MLM scams and that we don’t hear from the pulpit or Christian leaders speaking out against them. The brainwashing involved in this business would require an intervention to overcome.
Michael, you are correct. There has been much written about people leaving certain MMLs and having to undergo cult therapy by a professional.
I’ll link to several sites. The first is one of my favorites, I have spent many hours going through all of the information here. Also, the videos I will link to (in a separate comment so I don’t get too many links and get stuck in the spam filter)will be rather entertaining, but beyond that they will be informative. You may see some distributors used as examples that are now in MonaVie or other MLMs. It is humorous and concerning for obvious reasons…at least obvious to the majority here.
Steven Hassan’s website (and my favorite resource for this type of info):
http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/a/amway/
http://quixtarisacultintervention.blogspot.com/
http://www.amquix.info/amway_cultism.html
Video links, some humorous, some rather frightening if you comprehend what’s being said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxpQHsoJKCg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W692mWKaxH4&
feature=related
This one drags in places, but if you pay close attention there are many correlations between what the gentlemen are spoofing and what we are seeing and hearing about MonaVie today. Humor, and requested by Amway/Quixtar to be removed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWCx7DB678Q
Another humorous video, but very truthful. And yet another that Amway/Quixtar wants taken down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAwJrP1_ZeE
Dateline’s expose on Amway/Quixtar and the tool scam. I watched this on tv when it first aired several years ago…maybe 5 years or so? Several distributors are interviewed, but ex-diamond Bo Short is featured and is very informative. It is important to note, that even he, with his bad experience in Amway/Quxtar, is off and running another MLM distributorship. It is a 2 part video, about 10 minutes each, but I really recommend watching it, as it correlates to the things we are seeing and hearing about MonaVie today.
Part one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot31XhgE_XE&feature=related
Part two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgnvMfDu47c&feature=related
This page is full of all kinds of interesting, frightening, and factual information about the cult known as Amway/Quixtar.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/
It was updated in April of 2009, and was compiled by Dr. David Touretzky:
http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/touretzky1.html
A very informative read about cults, their methods of indoctrinations and how Amway/Quixtar fits the bill. Many correlations to the MonaVie “business” model.
http://www.cocs.com/jhoagland/amcult.html
His site index:
http://www.cocs.com/jhoagland/index.html
These links and info are important as many of the specific Amway/Quixtar distributors mentioned are now involved with MonaVie, many in a very big way.
Candace said : Especially when you scroll back up and look where Merritt’s hand is located in the picture in front of the house.
Won’t mean much to most of you…but being as this is what I do for a living…that hand should most definitely be elsewhere. The only reason that a photographer would leave that hand there would be to make the obvious insinuation….success is money is power is sex. Or; success in MonaVie will bring you money which will bring you power which will make you sexy or give you sex.
???????? Now THAT’S funny. I gotta send this to Steve and Gina hahaha, they’ll love this insanity. Actually I have to send this to everyone I know, this is too funny to keep to myself!!
So when I first read your post I couldn’t figure out what the heck you were referring to. I kept looking and looking and couldn’t find where this hidden sexual message was in the image. So after I looked reallllly hard and tried to think sexual thoughts, which is what it would take to see your reference, I SAW IT!! hahaha And then proceeded to spit my coffee all over my screen because I was laughing so frikkin’ hard.
I couldn’t believe it but you were talking about Steve’s hand on the small of Gina’s back?? My GOD, they’re having sexy sex right there on the page, in front of the house and everything hahaha. Did you not take health classes in school Candace? I think if you go back through the grade 3 or 4 text books you’ll find that a girl’s BUM is lower than Steve’s hand hahaha. You’re now officially a bigger hoot than Vogel.
Here’s one for you Candace, see what you can read into this…
What does a dog do on 3 legs that a man does on 2 legs?
.
.
.
.
Shakes hands. hahaha,
Ohhh, I know what Candace was thinking!!!!
I have to say that this place is getting crazier and crazier as it plods along, no wonder Lazy is distancing his good, or now semi-good Lazy Man financial blog name away from this circus and he is creating his juice scam site before this blog becomes a full blow Maury or Jerry Show.
If you want to analyze something, then analyze this… Vogel’s narcissistic tendencies. That should keep you busy for a few weeks.
Hey Candace, didn’t you at one time also mention that you worked with some sort of legal firm or something. I remember reading one of your replay posts back a ways, and that’s what you eluded to, something about some sort of invetigation but you couldn’t talk about it because of where you worked. You actually made it sound like it was some sort of government investigation. So now you’re an analyst as well, cool. You really get around.
You guys are defiantly running out of material and steam. When I bopped into the page today I thought I was on a new anti-Amway site for a minute there. Great expose on Amway, I’ll post some more if you like. At least Candace, you’re staying on topic… NOT.
J-man said : See what I was saying Doin Math, when you want FACTS to support the ridiculous price of this white grape juice this salesman (happy joe/sharron) has NOTHING!
Like his drink he too is full of Sh.T!!!!!
LIKE I SAID. FACTS SUCK, WHEN THEY ARE NOT ON YOUR SIDE.
Joe cant answer REAL questions so he fills in the blanks with Tranny fluid and asprin BS. Was all that in the MV training manual?
You should be proud of yourself Joe/Sharron, stealing money from your family and friends. Then again, I am sure that is your American Dream…..
No J-man, my American dream is just like your Amercian dream, I want to sit out front of my double wide strumming a banjo, oh, and bang on de drum all day.
Just link them to this blog, if they aren’t already keeping tabs on it.
It is no fault of mine that you have become so immune to sexual exploitation and innuendo in advertising. It is real, and it is rampant. And this type of image would get me or my colleagues fired from legitimate advertising jobs in which the clients wish to portray a professional message. Perhaps the image wasn’t intended to be professional. ‘Nuff said.
You are incorrect in your assumption, as usual. I’ll let Lazy Man answer this one for himself, if he feels like wasting his time with you.
Nope. Wrong again. You need to take off those purple colored glasses and stop drinking the juice when you read the comments here so you can actually comprehend them.
It is to MonaVie’s eternal detriment that they allowed and encouraged Ex-Amway kingpins to come into MonaVie and bring their Amway/Quixtar lines of sponsorships with them, becoming overnight sensations. MonaVie and Amway will be eternally linked. Bummer for you.
Joe Happy, you couldn’t find the point on a steak knife. It is completely on topic as Orrin Woodward and Brig Hart (and others) are mentioned several times over in many of the links I posted.
I would imagine you’re the only person here who chooses not to see the relevancy.
I’ve been trying to find more info on MonaVie and the FDA, but the only thing I found was a letter from 2007. Also the FDA states that MonaVie’s response to that letter was sufficient. Also, did anybody see the FDA cracking down on General Mills today because of Cheerio’s and their false advertisting(go to Drudge for the article)? I guess they’re the next to go the way of the dinosaur with MV!!!
Hey Jacob, J-man is going to think it’s me posting with your name now :) I’m already Sharon.
But ya, there is only that one little letter from 2007 on the FDA site sent to a Distributor and CC’d to MV.
We’re still all waiting for the last 2 complaints that Vogel filed to surface, but alas, no surfacing of the Vogel FDA complaint. Most likely filed under ‘G’ in that round filing cabinet by the agent’s desk.
Funny how 3000+ posts from a little handful of bloggers about a few items makes it seem like LOTS is happening, when in actual fact, there isn’t.
Hey Jacob, if you get a sec go check out the PDF they are talking about in a previous post. Do you see anything sexual about the first image as Candace implied??? I missed it but I can’t seem to get my mind down into their gutter.
http://www.stevemerritt.com/pdfs/TreasureChest.pdf
Candace said : You are incorrect in your assumption, as usual. I’ll let Lazy Man answer this one for himself, if he feels like wasting his time with you.
It’s the least he can do, after all, I waste my time here with you guys. But at least I don’t have to waste my employers money posting during working hours like most of you guys do.
Hey Happy Joe-Sharron;
Where are those lab results from the testing you were going to have done on your purple faux super juice? You now, the lab tests in India and Canada? Or was that just you posturing again? Oh, posturing: to act in an affected or artificial manner, as to create a certain impression.
And where is the updated MonaVie policies and procedures that you lied to us about? Remember, you said there was a more current one that February 28, 2009. Where is it?
And, oh, hey, I almost forgot, but what about all your self righteous chest beating about Larry Hislop getting terminated for violating his contract with MonaVie? You were pretty adamant about the fact that MonaVie was in the right for upholding the terms of the contract. You know…the same contract that you willingly violate every single time you make a comment here.
The FDA does have an open investigation for MonaVie. At least that’s what they wrote back to me in February, when I filed a complaint.
Whether it’s one person doing the investigating part-time, or several investigating full-time, I couldn’t tell you.
I do know that an FDA investigation could take a long time. That’s from my experience when I worked with another company years ago. The marketing department was in charge of labelling on our product. Naturally, they had issues with the truth (as many marketing people do).
The FDA took about two years to investigate and demand that we destroy our stock of labels. By this time, they had already been used.
With outbreaks of foodborne infections and other serious problems, I doubt if MonaVie is on the front burner.
If you really want some action, then I suggest that someone involve the media.
Joe Happy said:
I think it’s clear on the top post of MonaVie Scam site that I’m not distancing myself. It’s just that there are so many stupid off-topic comments like this one that the noise to signal ratio is higher than it should be. I should just delete comments that are stupid, but I like to let people have free speech.
MonaVie Scam is my solution to that problem.
Also, since Joe Happy is quick to say that I’m not good at SEO, he’ll be happy to know that someone looking for information about Orrin’s MonaVie tools on Google find my post.
Food Tech, you are only speculating to what the FDA is doing with your complaint from last February, and most likely doing the same with Vogel’s complaint. Just as you speculate there is an unfinished and ongoing investigation with regards to your complaint, I will hazard to speculate that they are most likely finished with your complaint and Vogel’s, and they are both neatly filed away in exactly the same place, under frivolous never to be seen again.
They are not going to call you and tell you they have tossed them out, they simply do their investigation, make a decision, contact the company in question if required, otherwise, into the archives they go and on to the next task.
Or they may simply leave them open for the next 5 years if they feel it’s of no importance, so when you contact them they can tell you, the file is still open and it’s still ongoing. When the FDA had an issue in 2007 with Kevin Vokes site they acted swiftly, it didn’t take years or even months.
As far as suggesting taking your stories to the media, well there is tons of it out there, and 99% of it positive, and I mean REAL media, not blogs rehashing the same crap over and over, so have a fun time with that one.
For every negative story you dredge up I’ll link you to 20 or 30 positive stories, tons of TV news stories from around the country and around the world. US, Puerto Rico, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Brazil, and the list goes on. And also a ton of great articles in magazines and newspapers about MV from the US and around the world. And these are actual credible sources where the reporters and authors have real identities and real names, and not a bunch of nameless hide in the shadows and toss rocks bloggers. So let’s take a look. We have one negative story in Newsweek from August 11, 2008 and one negative story from the Men’s Journal from December 4, 2008 that you guys keep referring to. It’s now June 19th, 2009, 10 months after Newsweek and 6 months after the Men’s Journal. So that’s 2 whole stories over a 10 month time span that Vogel and the Vogelites continue to reference. Will the media onslaught never stop.
As far as I can see with the sold out regional events that have been happening around the country and the world over the past several months, people are not taking this blog seriously if they are reading it at all. You’re still a bunch of paper tigers.
Also, since Joe Happy is quick to say that I’m not good at SEO, he’ll be happy to know that someone looking for information about Orrin’s MonaVie tools on Google find my post.
Since you decided to bring up SEO again…
If I search for Orrin W. you don’t come up anywhere, just Orrin’s stuff, if I search Orrin W. and MV, you don’t come up either. Tried Orrin W. MV Tools, nothing, not on the first 3 pages.
Blogs are spider friendly, so by their very nature they do their own SEO 90% of the time. If you mention the word MV 3000 times, well of course Lazy Man comes up when you search MV.
And using ‘All In One SEO Pack’ for WordPress is just basic SEO anyone can do that has a blog, it really does it all on it’s own, just fill in the tags and away it goes. So you may in fact be good at SEO but the reason you’re where you are on Google is because of MV being repeated thousands of times.
When you hit the top 10 with anything relating to financial advice or investing, well then give me a call, I may have some SEO projects for you. Otherwise, you’re still just riding on the coat tails of MV.
Well we have our winner for Jacka$$ Monavie Distributor of the Year! It wasn’t even close.
My complaint with the FDA is still active and I am still in contact with the person first assigned to the case. He apologized profusely for the complaint dragging this long, but that’s the world of the FDA — understaffed and under-budgeted to deal with all the jerks out there trying to rip people off with bogus snakeoil remedies. I’ve dealt with the FDA enough in the past to have known that action wouldn’t come swiftly, but experience has taught me that the FDA will eventually act on a complaint as substantial and as well articulated as the one I filed.
As to your lofty claims about our information being substandard, that is clearly not the case and you are a fool for even making the suggestion, since you haven’t posted a single verifiable piece of notable information in any of your comments to date (including your previous incarnations under other user names). Here is just is sampling of the articles that have been published against your company, not to mention the thousands of posts on blogs condemning your BS scam. The only people singing Monavie’s praises are the pimps and whores that sell it. You all disgust me. You are the very reason why so many people despise MLM zombies.
http://www.mensjournal.com/superjuices-on-trial
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Drugs/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/EnforcementActivitiesbyFDA/CyberLetters/ucm056937.pdf http://www.newsweek.com/id/150499/page/1
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/health/content/accent/epaper/2008/07/16/a3d_susman_0716.html
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0811/050.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jonny-bowden/new-rules-no-more-claimin_b_106562.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/30887734
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=ai8WCgSJrhmY&refer=latin_america
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400351/Thumbs-Down-on-MonaVie.html
http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/new_staten_island_health_craze.html
You’ve also got a lousy C rating with the BBB (up from an F earlier this year; Kevin Vokes, who is still an active MV distributor, actually has his own F rating) and are still in the midst of a BBB review to determine “if the company’s advertising claims have been substantiated”.
Aside from that there are the inarguable facts that Monavie retails for $45 a bottle; has lower antioxidant activity than grape juice and apple juice, negligible vitamin and mineral content; contains sodium benzoate; and is being widely promoted — illegally — to cure, treat, and prevent diseases. To top it off, anyone who is foolish enough to want to buy it anyway can do so from E-Bay and Craigslist for less than you can get it wholesale, thereby rendering your business model null and void.
You’re a disgrace Joe — ethically, intellectually, and spirtitually. The sooner you slither away, the better off everyone will be. You should peddle your crap juice and pyramid scheme pseudo-religious BS to a more receptive audience, like a roomful of your fellow brainwashed juice-hustling lemmings
Joe challenged:
OK, I’ll take you up on that challenge Joe. I just posted 11 “negative stories” – all from reputable, identifiable sources, not blogs. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and take the average of the 20-30 to 1 ratio in your challenge and call it 25: 1. You are now on the hook for producing 275 positive stories from around the world (including at least a couple each from Puerto Rico, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil). They all have to be from credible sources such as TV, magazines, and newspapers, and they must not be in any way financially connected with Monavie. The clock is ticking, now get off your ass, act like man, and back up your challenge. I’ll even make it easier for you – give me just 100 for starters.
Candace said : And, oh, hey, I almost forgot, but what about all your self righteous chest beating about Larry Hislop getting terminated for violating his contract with MonaVie? You were pretty adamant about the fact that MonaVie was in the right for upholding the terms of the contract. You know…the same contract that you willingly violate every single time you make a comment here.
For all you know I’m just a ghost writer for a Distributor.
And as far as cross sponsoring or posting on the blog, those two are miles apart. It’s like comparing assualt to spitting. The majority of the people he contacted did not know him, me included.
Here’s an idea, go stand inside your local department or grocery store and pitch people on a non competing product as they walk in to the store. Maybe try it at Wal-mart, they would probably welcome you with open arms.
No, actually that would go over like a lead balloon, yet there is NO competion. What’s with that, sheesh. How can that hurt their business if someone interecepts their customers and pitches a non competing product, I mean really, what could it hurt.
So on to the bloggin issue, well don’t ever ask another question of a Distributor, or attack a Distributor and then the few that post here will just stop posting. After all, from what J-man says, it seems there is only one distributor posting here anyway. Acording to him I’m probably all of the distributors that post here, both male and female. Hey Joint-Man you must be smoking some pretty potent stuff. Now I hear sitar music.
You guys continue to bait and go fishing for distributors to come on this blog and respond. So stop asking Distributors questions, just state your 4 or 5 facts and you can high five each other all day long after that. And then you can just discuss your 4 or 5, or even 6 things over and over and over, how very interesting.
Joe Happy said,
If MonaVie was an ethical company they’d consider that the same situation. In your scenario you hired a ghost writer with the explicit purpose of violating MonaVie’s terms of service. That would prove that Joe Happy is as dishonest as they come. Joe, that argument, is an “epic fail”.
Voilating the terms of service is voilating the terms of service. It’s clear that Larry Hislop didn’t try to hurt MonaVie in any way. He was only looking to help augment the income he lost due to MonaVie’s slumping sales. It was no threat to MonaVie’s product sales in anyway.
Here’s an idea, show me where the MonaVie store is and I’ll sell the a competing V8-Fusion product to eveyone who walks in the door.
Also Wal-mart sells lots of competing products. I can buy Coke, Pepsi, and their own Sam’s Choice Brand. Are you saying that MonaVie distributors also sell cranberry juice, blueberry juice, and V8 Fusion? Just making sure you are comparing apples to apples.
Another, very valid point here is that MonaVie doesn’t own the real estate of all MonaVie distributors.
Umm, we have dozens of distributors in the archives.
We aren’t asking distributors questions until they’ve engaged in conversation with us. We are asking open questions that any logical person should think about before making a MonaVie purchase. If MonaVie distributors do respond, they should at least discuss those open questions. They aren’t random questions – they are supported by legit sources. Again the science is currently not disputed. If you want to dispute the science then continue (or get your ghost writer to do it). If you do not want to dispute the science, then I would suggest marketing to those people who don’t believe in science.
No one searches for Orrin W. It’s like a Red Sox fan searching for Jonathan P… everyone him as Papelbon – his most unique name. Woodward isn’t overly unique, but Orrin is. I rank #1 for Orrin MonaVie Tools and #5 for Woodward MonaVie Tools. I’m third for Orrin Woodward MonaVie Tools… In short, I’ve got significant things that someone may search for… if they care about Orrin Woodward’s MonaVie Tools.
You can’t just throw a bunch content up there with MonaVie mentioned 3000 times. If that were the case, I’d put up a ton of content with “google” mentioned 3000 times. I’d also do that for Brad Pitt and Scarlett-Johansson. If it were that easy to game search engines, they would be fundamentally broken.
This might be a good time to mention that Joe Happy never writes MonaVie, but goes with MV…. I’ll be sure to do a search and replace of MV for MonaVie before I do the next archives.
Why would you care if I rank for financial advice or investing? I’m basically a rank amatuer with no idea how MLM works in your eyes… yet I’ve disrupted your business. If I wrote a post that disrupted McDonalds’ business would they write me and say, “Let me know when you rank for financial advice or investing…” or would they say, “Wow, that’s really amazing work since we have tons of big media organizations writing about us. Let’s talk how we can work together…”
A smart company would go for the later…
Joe,
I think you’re speculating that I’m speculating about the FDA.
Being in the food industry for 30 years has given me opportunities to befriend some FDA and USDA inspectors. I believe I know a bit more about how the system works than a Kool-aid salesman.
As Vogel mentioned, the FDA moves slowly on low-priority complaints. MonaVie may mean the world to you, but it really is just an irritant to the rest of us.
The most embarrassing media report to MonaVie, actually came from their very own press release. If you recall, they were the ones that released the AIBMR study. I’m sure they’re kicking themselves now. The big words probably impressed them, and anyways, the low-IQ distributors weren’t about to figure out what the study said.
To remind you, the study found that MonaVie contained only 1.48 mg/ml of total phenolics and an ORAC of 22.81 umoles/ml.
Show me anything in the media that indicates those numbers are impressive.
Also, don’t forget that phone number to your “product specialist.” I’m looking forward to talking to him/her.
So, let’s re-cap. Currently, due to his own comments, Joe Yappy owes us:
275 pro-MonaVie articles in reputable newspapers, magazines, or interviews from around the world.
The name and contact number of a certified product specialist at MonaVie LLC whom we can speak with regarding the product.
The lab results from his two independent lab tests that he was boastfully promising to have done in India and Canada several months ago.
The new and revised MonaVie policies and procedures dated more recent than February 28, 2009. He alleges that the new P&P allows distributors to post to blogs, but hasn’t shown us that non-existent version.
Here’s something else for you, Joe.
MonaVie Scam
mona vie scam
Acai berry scam
mlm scam
mlm scheme
Monarch health sciences
Dallin Larsen scam
Amway
Quixtar
Orrin Woodward scam
Brig Hart scam
tool scam
product based pyramid
fda warning
illegal medical claims
MonaVie
Mona Vie
MonaVie LLC
Just to help the search engines along.
Vogel, thanks for your imput on the math. Joe, I would welcome your take on the business opportunity with MV. Do you agree that only 2-3% of those that signed a distributor agreement were ever cash flow positive?
Does my example of me and 1,000 friends and family and the income distribution jive with the IDS figures?
Is the business opportunity really that heavily top loaded? In other words, such a high percentage of $ flowing to the top 1/10 of 1%?
Is there anyway to tell how many new distributors reached the rank of diamond or above in 2008? If any did, can we determine if they came from a previous mlm?
Again, I want to fully understand this. Any help is appreciated. Not much talk about the opportunity aspect here.
Thanks again
Doin the Math asked:
This should help…
2007 IDS
Diamond = 23
Blue Diamond = 65
*Hawaiian Blue Diamond = N/A
Black Diamond = 12
Royal Black Diamond = 3
Presidential Black Diamond = 2
Imperial Black Diamond = l
*Crown Black Diamond = N/A
2008 (Mid-Year) IDS
Diamond = 32
Blue Diamond = 84
*Hawaiian Blue Diamond = 25
Black Diamond =19
Royal Black Diamond = 4
Presidential Black Diamond = 1
Imperial Black Diamond = 1
Crown Black Diamond = 1
2008 (Full-Year) IDS
Diamond = 36
Blue Diamond = 84
Hawaiian Blue Diamond = 26
Black Diamond = 27
**Royal Black Diamond or higher = 7
Notes:
* = Hawaiian Blue Diamond and Crown Black Diamond ranks were apparently first introduced in 2008.
** = Final year 2008 IDS lumps all rank above Royal Black Diamond into one reporting category.
Sources:
2007 IDS
http://media.monavie.com/pdf/corporate/income_disclosure_statement_old.pdf
Mid-Year 2008 IDS
http://www.paulgiddings.com/media/income_disclosure_statement.pdf
Full-Year 2008 IDS
http://media.monavie.com/pdf/corporate/income_disclosure_statement.pdf
Commentary:
I haven’t run a full comparison of the 2007 IDS versus the final 2008 IDS. However I did analyze the mid-year 2008 versus full-year 2008 IDS and came up with the following:
– Only a scant few are made it through to the higher ranks. Of 20,599 new distributors enrolled, a total of 13 rose to a rank of Diamond or above (roughly 6 out of 10,000 new distributors). Since mid-year 2008, there were:
4 new Diamonds
0 new Blue Diamonds
1 new Hawaiian Blue Diamond
8 new Black Diamonds
0 new Royal, Presidential, Imperial, or Crown BD
Notice that there was no growth in the latter half of 2008 at the top 4 levels of the pyramid and at the Blue Diamond level, and almost no growth at the Hawaiian Blue Diamond level.
At the lowest 5 levels (where 98% of distributors dwell), annual wages went down and weekly hours worked went up. The average hourly wage at the Distributor and Star levels declined to $3.69 (a 19% decrease) and $3.91 (a 14% decrease), respectively.
I would imagine that because of the US economic downturn, as well as a deluge of negative media attention, the earnings picture for Monavie distributors has become quite a bit worse than is indicated in the 2008 IDS.
Vogel and all:
During the Salt Lake City Regional webcast today, Dallin, spoke about making it easier to reach the high rank levels. Each level would entail getting one additional, qualified leg, over the previous level. My thinking is that this will create the illusion of continued growth in the business.
One also has to consider that new Black Diamonds (Schroder and Dean come to mind) that came from other MLMs. So, while MV advocates might point out that there are more Black Diamonds than ever before, remember that these people didn’t start from zero.
I wonder how many MonaVie distributors that truly started at zero have reached even the diamond level.
What is the current drop-out rate?
Fascinating that the income is going down for average MonaVie distributors, while at the same time MonaVie is offering “free enrollment”.
Couple that with Amthrax’ comment about MonaVie making it easier to reach high ranking levels, and it makes one wonder what the attrition rate really is.
And this with a new product launch? Should be even easier now to reach those high levels, there’s one more product to market, why the need to change the pay structure?
As they say, all that glitters is not gold.
I noticed this article MonaVie bringing 3,600 to SLC, launching new energy drink.
“The privately held company, which claims sales approached $1 billion in 2008″
Note that it’s just company’s claim. There’s no support for this statement.
“The company touts those products as supplements to a person’s regular diet in which one serving delivers the nutritional value of 11 to 13 fruits and vegetables.”
Hmmm, you wonder why people are confused on this point? Even journalists doing the research fall for the misinformation.
“The company started in 2003 promoting weight-loss products, which wasn’t terribly successful, said Larsen.”
I think Vogel mentioned this in the past, but I’m not sure. It is amazing that one company can cure all the diseases people have listed, after failing on it’s first attempt. This would be like spending all your time trying to become the next Michael Jordan, failing, and then lucking into becoming the President of the United States.
“No J-man, my American dream is just like your Amercian dream, I want to sit out front of my double wide strumming a banjo, oh, and bang on de drum all day.”
Is this what you say about people who are not interested in your drink?
Can you present anything, (facts that is) to prove that your drink is worth 45 bucks a bottle? ANYTHING AT ALL JOE/SHARRON/DR
Where is that # you said that you would post?
You have said on this site that the personal effects that you receive from the juice speak volumes. I have asked you 2 different times to post about your benefits from the purple piss, and again you HAVE NOT.
At the end of the day I would rather play the banjo. You on the other hand would rather spend your day stealing from your family and friends.
Once again, somewhere in your comment can you type some sort of information as to why anyone should buy MV juice, when it has been proven that the same can be obtained from V8 Fusion for 10x less???
Surely your are smarter than a trailer trash banjo feller like me?
All you have to do is PROVE it, with some FACTS…
Joe/Sharron
Why cant you or anyone explain why I, or anyone else should by your MV juice? Why cant you explain this? Why are you selling a “super juice/food” but having such a hard time explaining why it is any better than V8 Fusion? Prove to us what a fine distributor you are and SELL US!!!!!!!
Just a few facts Joe, not a lot of them, just a few. Can you even provide that???
Joe below are some small facts about the banjo.(I can see that you are hung up on it) If you like I can get you some more facts, it’s really not that hard (well, unless you dont have any).
Now how about some FACTS to the questions we KEEP asking about your amazing, awsome life changing, and dont forget volume speaking drink…..
The banjo is a stringed instrument developed by enslaved Africans in the United States, adapted from several African instruments.[1] The name banjo is commonly thought to be derived from the Kimbundu term mbanza. Some etymologists derive it from a dialectal pronunciation of “bandore”, though recent research suggests that it may come from a Senegambian term for a bamboo stick formerly used for the instrument’s neck.
WEEKLY ANTIOXIDANT FARM REPORT
ORAC SCORE: MonaVie: 22.81 umoles
Boiled Artichokes: 94.16 umoles
TOTAL PHENOLICS (AKA polyphenols. All plant-based antioxidants combined)
MonaVie: 1.48 mg/ml
Boiled Artichokes: 7.03 mg/gm
MonaVie Data from AIBMR study (sponsored by MonaVie. Directed by Dr. Schauss)
Artichoke Data from USDA ORAC Table of Selected Foods – 2007
Happy Joe, ask Sharron to boil some of the juice.
Maybe this will bring the ORAC and PHENOLICS score upwards enough to compare to the raisins or peanut butter!!!!
Hey Food Tech, is there ANYTHING that MV juice scored higher than? (beside water)
I posted some brief pricing analysis of MonaVie Emv vis-a-vis XS Gold, a similar energy drink product sold by Amway distributors:
http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/monavie-emv/
MonaVie Emv’s price per can = $2.80/$3.71*
MonaVie Emv’s price per 24 cans = $68/$89
XS Gold price per can = $2.30/$2.99
XS Gold price per 24 cans = $55/$72**
* First price is distributor cost, second is suggested retail
** XS Gold normally comes in cases of 12, not 24 like Emv.
I didn’t think I’d find something more expensive than XS Gold, but I shouldn’t have been surprised that Emv is!
Where did you come up with the suggested retail for the Emv?
Amthrax, Dont forget that your paying for a Super juice/food that is AWESOME is so so many other amazing ways (not that Joe/Sharron or DR can explain). Never mind that it has a lower ORAC and PHENOLICS score than peanut butter, apples(fuji that is) raisins and lets not forget those boiled Artichokes, and the list goes on and on…. This of course just speaks volumes about the drink!
Here’s one place where I found talk about the retail price of MonaVie Emv:
http://www.monavieforum.net/showthread.php?t=803
I cant wait to read some of the testimonies that will arise from the EMV. I am sure they will be even more BS amazing than the MV juice.
Some humor for everyone on this fine Monday morning: The next product from MonaVie… MonaVie Air.
http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/humor-monavie-air/
With antioxidants?
MonaVie Air: Smell It, Breathe It, Share It.
now thats funny!!!!
The Acai berries leave the essence of its antioxidant rich nutrients directly into the carbon-dioxide captured in each bag of MV Air. When you eat regular fruits and vegetables, you get none of this. Only MonaVie can provide this benefit for your active lifestyle.
The Acai berries leave the essence of its antioxidant rich nutrients directly into the carbon-dioxide captured in each bag of MV Air. When you eat regular fruits and vegetables, you get none of this. Only MonaVie can provide this benefit for your active lifestyle.
You know whats crazy (and sad)is that some of those Black Diamonds could sell this line at one of those tent scams and those people would buy it!!!
Crazy, Sad, or just plain stupid….you pick!