MonaVie Scam? |
3,589 Comments |
[MonaVie has issued a cease and desist order in an attempt to prevent you from this article below. I'd pay special attention to the comments as there is a lot of great information about MonaVie there.]
Is MonaVie a Scam?
Is MonaVie a Scam?
Was my wife targeted to buy snake-oil? Hundreds of people weigh in.
My wife is an active member in a nation-wide, young adults group. I am a member as well, but I'm not nearly as active (lack of time, plus my Laziness kicks in). The groups' goals are very noble. They aim to help members with public speaking and event planning skills while raising money for charity through local businesses. Recently my wife went to a meeting and was gone longer than usual. I got a little concerned, so I called her to find out how the meeting was going. It turned out that it wasn't a typical meeting any more - one of the members had invited some business acquaintances of his. When she got back, she told me about the meeting. It turned into a presentation of an energy/antioxidant juice called MonaVie.
About MonaVie
This juice is a blend of 19 juices with the most referenced being the açaí (a-sigh-eee) berry. The açaí berry supposedly has many, many antioxidant properties. I like to be as healthy as I possible, so why wouldn't I incorporate MonaVie into my diet?
The Price of MonaVie
The business behind the juice detracts from it's value. The juice itself is not cheap. It's $40 a bottle with a bottle lasting only around one week. That means you can expect to pay around $175 a month for this juice. For many people, that's a significant car payment. For this kind of money, one would expect some sort of guarantee, perhaps a popular, publicly-traded, pharmaceutical company standing behind it. The company also doesn't publish how much of the acai berry is each bottle.
MonaVie and Multi-Level Marketing (MLM)
Beyond MonaVie juice being expensive, it is sold by distributors who are compensated in based on a multi-level marketing structure. Some of you familiar with Amway or Quixtar might understand how this works. For those who are new to multi-level marketing, the goal of the organization is to recruit more sellers and "incentivize" them for recruiting them. I'm not a big fan of such systems, it seems like the founders of the company always make a fair amount, and the people that join later end up with few sales and no one else to recruit.
The people the other night were trying to coerce my wife to buy two bottles, at nearly $100, and potentially become a distributor. My wife balked at such a thing, largely because she knew that I would want to do some research before spending that kind of money. They ended up giving her two bottles of juice to try for free. I fear that my wife may notice a placebo effect and grow a taste for the expensive juice.
MonaVie: Perhaps not a Scam?
Is it possible that it could work? Well Wikipedia references that Red Sox players Jonathan Papelbon and J.D. Drew as fans. As Red Sox fans ourselves this is high praise. I read an article from Fortune magazine that had high praise of MonaVie coming from Sumner Redstone. That's a very influential person and a very influential magazine. I did find one scientific piece of research, a PDF by AIBMR Life Sciences (update: it seems to have been removed from the site). The clinical research shows that it does indeed deliver more antioxidants than a placebo (update: in the comments it has come out that the researcher of the study was supplying MonaVie with it's acai - sounds very biased to me). However, it doesn't compare to less costly solutions, like a multivitamin, V8 Fusion Acai Berry
Update: There have been thousands of comments here... I urge people interested in making a decision about whether to buy or sell MonaVie to read them.
Further Reading from MonaVie Scam:
- MonaVie Lies about the ORAC score of MonaVie?
- Oprah Sues MonaVie
- Men’s Journal Proves MonaVie Lacks Nutrition
- MonaVie vs. an Apple (Hint: the apple wins easily)
acai, acai scam, mona vie, mona vie scam, MonaVie, monavie scam
... and focuses on:Dumb Purchases
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3,589 Responses to “MonaVie Scam?”
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It seems that with over 3000 comments people are finding this page slow to load and difficult to leave additional comments on. You can find a nearly complete archive of comments here. and can click the "Older Comments" link above for the most recent ones. I highly recommend reading them before posting. There's a high chance your topic has been addressed already.
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Has anyone seen the updates to the “MonaVie Ebay Guide”? Won’t be news to the regulars here, but it is interesting to note that now even EBay has a warning in place. The guide was there before, but only with the Jonny Bowden info. The guide appears to have been updated yesterday.
http://reviews.ebay.com/MONAVIE-is-NOT-FDA-Approved-as-a-treatment-cure_W0QQugidZ10000000008588669
Dr. Weil article:
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400351/Thumbs-Down-on-MonaVie.html
And the comments to Dr. Weil’s article in which you will see more misleading info posted by uninformed MonaVie distributors:
http://www.drweil.com/drw/ecs/forums/thread.html?docid=THR46296
And this is another article that is not new, but I can’t recall if it’s been posted here before or not. One interesting thing about this article is that even this author knows that MonaVie does not get it’s acai from Sambazon. Weird how distributors that seem to be very active on the internet with their own methods of “prescribing” MonaVie don’t know where MonaVie gets its Acai from. (NanPurks)
http://blog.gnu-designs.com/uncorking-the-truth-about-mona-vies-active-formula-drink-
and-other-mlm-models
And a fairly new entry on Rip-off Report:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/443/RipOff0443993.htm
And the latest entry on Amthrax’ blog:
http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2009/05/16/monavie-live-webcast-from-dallas-or-how-dallin-is-growing-the-business/
It would appear that I am not the only person wondering what incentives were given to former kingpins in other MLMs to get them to join MonaVie with many, many distributors already in place.
Joe Happy said:
You may as well ask them for the complete formula. That is not something that ANY company will disclose, not just MV. See if Coke or Pepsi will give you the amounts of their ingredients or Famous Amos cookies for their quantities of each ingredient, also not gonna happen.
Thanks for a comment on a question that was not directed towards you. It is so funny that you comment on one thing yet not on others, why not tell us why your juice is 10x or more over priced, or why 3 tests prove it is inferior to V8 Fusion???? Comment on that!
BTW:
Coke is about $1 (per can)
Pepsi is about $1 (per can)
If one of these products were 10x more than the the other do ya think they would be in business.. oh thats right they would hire Mr. Happy Joe to do some advertising….”Going to Mexico, better be safe, Drink your Coke, watch all the other tards get the swine flu while your basking it the sun, and that pretty wine bottle, give it away for a Christmas gift”!!!
Once again HJ try to answer the real questions, thats why this site was started!!!!!!
Thanks Food Tech, for that answer, if the % of each fruit could not be found, how about the % of acai. Would it be possible to isolate just amount of acai in a bottle of juice? I am sure it’s going to be extremely low, but something like this would be great to post, adding to the truth of this crap.
I agree with LM’s and Candace’s latest comments.
I won’t argue with Heijunka’s characterization of Monavie’s distributors as “the horse’s rear” (and presumably the “rear” includes her as well). However, these distributors earn commissions for sales, so if they can’t answer consumer questions properly, what exactly is it that they are doing to earn their commissions? It’s not enough to stand their mute, smiling and blinking in bewilderment, when people raise questions, and it’s not appropriate to deflect every question and refer people to the company for answers.
If the reality is that distributors are incapable of providing reliable information — and that clearly is the case – then we need no further evidence that Monavie’s business model is highly flawed. The company has chosen to have its product distributed by a sales force that is essentially useless for anything more than purchasing the product themselves. We all know that that is the true end game of the Monavie business – to sell product and sales tools to their own distributors. The less educated distributors are about the product, the more likely they are to continue buying it as well as to continue shelling out money for sales tools and company “training” events (which apparently don’t provide any real training at all because distributors [“the horse’s rear”] still can’t properly answer even the most basic questions about the product).
More importantly, we all know that the company doesn’t want our questions to be answered (at least not truthfully) or they would have made those answers available long ago. Their failure to provide answers is why we have been uncovering the answers ourselves – and doing a damn good job at it too, I might add, much to the company’s chagrin
The company in many cases is the source of the misinformation that distributors are spreading to consumers – their deception has been purposeful. Calling the company would be an exercise in futility except perhaps for the entertainment value. Larsen et al. have made a point of deceiving consumers since the day Monavie launched (and well before that if you consider Royal Tongan Limu), and they aren’t about to stop unless they are forced to.
If you want to contact the company and try get the answers that they have so far been extremely unwilling to provide, then go ahead and get back to us when you’ve got them.
I already know as much as I need to know about the Monavie organization. The questions they will be answering next will be coming from the FDA, not me. Their days of shoveling BS at an unsuspecting public are over.
“The company has chosen to have its product distributed by a sales force that is essentially useless for anything more than purchasing the product themselves. We all know that that is the true end game of the Monavie business – to sell product and sales tools to their own distributors.”
This is one of the best statements posted here.
Very good Vogel, very much the truth.
“If you want to contact the company and try get the answers that they have so far been extremely unwilling to provide, then go ahead and get back to us when you’ve got them.”
Wasn’t DR suppose to contact MV HQ about the test done by FT? I guess he is STILL waiting, or maybe they finally told him the truth! Low end grape juice!
[Editor's Note: I was thinking about not approving this one, but I think it shows another example of a misguided MonaVie distributor.]
you guys are all idiots.
anyone who SALES MONA VIE is dumb and doesnt get how this business works.
REASONS WHY PEOPLE DONT SUCCEED AT MONA VIE!!
1. their PERSONAL SPONSOR doesnt do their job!
and that is it!
if you drink it..feel it…share it..and HELP THE PEOPLE YOU PERSONALLY SPONSOR EVERYONE WILL MAKE MONEY!!
im 27 i love Mona VIE it changed my LIFE!
i helped each of my personal sponsors succeed and now WE ARE ALL HEALTHIER and WEALTHEIR
DONT BLAME MONA VIE FOR YOU NOT MAKING MONEY, BLAME YOUR PERSONAL SPONSOR!!!!!!!!!!
i know it hurts but that is the truth.
how come in a small town in California there are 3 diamonds in less than a year, and so many people are making an extra 2 thousand a month its crazy.
hard workers make mona vie work, not lazy people looking for easy money!!
if your lazy and a complainer stay away from my business THANK YOU!!!!!
Chris my friend is sounds like to me you are promoting the distributor consumption model and don’t promote to build a retail base … yes this correct?
… if so then you need to read you agreement, because you should not be receiving any bonuses if you don’t have end-users/customers.
… if you dont have end-users/customers you are all just making money from a product based pyramid scheme, which is what Monavie really is I believe … from all the research and lack of distributors having retail customers.
Does your wonderful upline teach and train you all to build an honest business by developing a strong retail base of 10 to 15 customers?
… or is it drink it, feel it, share it with only the people you recruit … is recruiting the focus?
I am sure you have your 10 plus retail customers right?
Glen
J-man Said : Thanks for a comment on a question that was not directed towards you. It is so funny that you comment on one thing yet not on others, why not tell us why your juice is 10x or more over priced, or why 3 tests prove it is inferior to V8 Fusion???? Comment on that!
Yes funny that. That’s the great thing about being an independent distributor, a free agent, my own boss. I get to choose the questions I will answer and I get to choose my customers and people I want to do business with.
Besides, you already have the 3 studies and by the way you keep refering to them you now fully understand them, so they have answered your questions and you seem to know it all by your comments. I have nothing to add, you’ve already made up your mind so what other answers do you need?
Candace says:
May 19, 2009 at 7:18 am
Has anyone seen the updates to the “MonaVie Ebay Guide”? Won’t be news to the regulars here, but it is interesting to note that now even EBay has a warning in place. The guide was there before, but only with the Jonny Bowden info. The guide appears to have been updated yesterday.
http://reviews.ebay.com/MONAVIE-is-NOT-FDA-Approved-as-a-treatment-cure_W0QQugidZ10000000008588669
Dr. Weil article:
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/QAA400351/Thumbs-Down-on-MonaVie.html
And the comments to Dr. Weil’s article in which you will see more misleading info posted by uninformed MonaVie distributors:
http://www.drweil.com/drw/ecs/forums/thread.html?docid=THR46296
First of all, this is NOT an eBay warning, it’s just a post like any blog post by someone called j3rs3ygirl. So stop misleading everyone by saying that eBay is now posting warnings. Maybe I’ll post a warning about this blog, would that make it an eBay warning or just another post by a blogger?
And secondly, your Dr. Weil on one hand poo poos MonaVie and then schlocks his crap, it’s $36 bucks for his magical anti aging pills… please.
http://www.weiljuvenon.com/?utm_source=DrWeil&utm_medium=Banner&utm_campaign=Juvenon_160×600
Funny how this is at the bottom of his magic pills page.
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.Testimonial results not typical.
This guy sells dozens of goofy alleged health products. Looks like everyone has an angle, his is putting down MV and trying to sell his stuff, MV is obviouslly cutting into his racket.
J-man Said – Thanks Food Tech, for that answer, if the % of each fruit could not be found, how about the % of acai. Would it be possible to isolate just amount of acai in a bottle of juice? I am sure it’s going to be extremely low, but something like this would be great to post, adding to the truth of this crap.
Just post your best guess instead J-man, you’re already so sure it’s low in your expert opinion.
Joe Happy you really are not doing yourself or Monavie any favors posting here … you came across as a bit of an idiot, sorry to say that but unless you can give us facts and answer questions put to you … it is the impression you give.
e.g. You have never answered me about your ability to build a retail base and develop a number of end-users/customers selling at the retail price – I expect you don’t have many customers.
Yes, we understand the studies well and NO Monavie distributor has been able to disprove them and or prove that the Juice is worth the extra money/better then the other cheaper juice.
… it is hard for some of us here I am sure to understand how you can also make up your mind to stay with Monavie and continue to defend the company/your business and the product … after all the facts/studies presented to you.
I wonder what motivates you?
Glen
J-man,
A profile probably could be developed for acai, that could be used as a standard for a HPLC analysis.
As a pigmented berry, acai has high levels of anthocyanins. Therefore, if high amounts of acai are added to a product, we’d expect to find high levels of anthocyanins in the end product. All three tests of MonaVie Active failed to document this.
This doesn’t mean that acai isn’t in the product, but it doesn’t support the claim that acai is a major contributor of antioxidants in MonaVie.
It’s ridiculous that Monavie contains anything other than acai. Their marketing materials go on ad nauseum about how acai is nature’s “perfect” miraculous superfood, but apparently it’s just not miraculous or super enough because for some reason they have to add 18 other fruit syrups to the mix. Of course this makes no sense; It’s just a cost-saving measure. Perhaps that scant amount of acai in Monavie doesn’t achieve its full disease-curing potential unless its diluted with grape juice syrup and apple juice syrup. :-)
Glen says:
May 19, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Joe Happy you really are not doing yourself or Monavie any favors posting here … you came across as a bit of an idiot, sorry to say that but unless you can give us facts and answer questions put to you … it is the impression you give.
e.g. You have never answered me about your ability to build a retail base and develop a number of end-users/customers selling at the retail price – I expect you don’t have many customers.
Well you expect wrong, I have more than enough retail customers to satisfy my retail requirement, how many I have is simply none of your or anybody elses business. MV knows exactly how many have when I submit my retail invoices when they they do their retail audits. You continue to make blanket assumptions that I or anyone in MV doesn’t understand retail.
I can safely say I have most likely had far more success in retail than you have Glen. MV is not my only business interest, I have several online retail business’s, but MV is the most fun and I don’t have to deal with jerks, I choose my customers.
Yes, we understand the studies well and NO Monavie distributor has been able to disprove them and or prove that the Juice is worth the extra money/better then the other cheaper juice.
So we will go by those studies then, you have now all proven what you set out to prove, thanks for the info, now find something else to after, tried bottled water or Dr Weil’s magic health pills.
… it is hard for some of us here I am sure to understand how you can also make up your mind to stay with Monavie and continue to defend the company/your business and the product … after all the facts/studies presented to you.
I see it’s hard for you to understand, and that’s why you’re not involved. Whether you like it or not, or believe it or not, I get personal benefits from MV that are worth every cent to me, and I have many people including retail customers that also derive great personal benefits from MV, and that’s why they continue to purchase MV every month.
I wonder what motivates you?
What motivates me is the personal benefits I get from MV, what motivates me is all of the people that I have helped to keep their homes and cars from the repo man, what motivates me is the people I have helped to start saving money to send their kids to college or put a down payment on their first home. What motivates me is the MORE project. What motivates me is being able to contribute to multiple charities every month. What motivates me is that I can just take my wife and kids and just hop on a plane to Orlando and go to Disney for 5 days. What motivates me is that I can do all of these things and not have to worry if I can afford to do them. But what motivates me the most is the outstanding people I have met through MV.
Vogel says:
May 19, 2009 at 9:50 pm
It’s ridiculous that Monavie contains anything other than acai. Their marketing materials go on ad nauseum about how acai is nature’s “perfect” miraculous superfood, but apparently it’s just not miraculous or super enough because for some reason they have to add 18 other fruit syrups to the mix. Of course this makes no sense; It’s just a cost-saving measure. Perhaps that scant amount of acai in Monavie doesn’t achieve its full disease-curing potential unless its diluted with grape juice syrup and apple juice syrup.
Sounds good. So now you’re a formulator. It looks that you guys are now in speculation mode. J-man is speculating on the amount of acai, you’re speculating on the amount of acai. Speculate on. Actually the reason for the 19 fruits is so it matches the MonaVie Indy car, number 19. Just in case you’re wondering.
Speculating???? Please refer to which post I speculated on????
I have been referring to the 3 tests done, 1 of them by MV I might add. These are not speculations, they are FACTS, none of which you want to or have even tried to disprove. Would you rather tale about Coke and Pepsi some more??? or some different bottled water, how about types of motor oil (anything but the truth)
Do you not read, I was asking if there is a way to show how much acai is in each bottle, this is a QUESTION (you know like the ones we keep asking you) not a speculation. Why cant you just answer the questions, my mind is not closed or made up on anything. Just explain why MV’s test proves that the juice is no better than V8 Fusion yet cost 10x more. Now I know like you said in an earlier post that you get to choose the questions you answer, and of course this one my be a little big for you, so pour yourself 4oz of purple power and get your shit together and answer the question or you could call one of your black diamonds for support!
And thanks for the Indy car clear up, not that anyone cares, once again talking about crap that does not matter. We were so worried about that.
Happy Joe, why not make all of us happy, why cant you answer THE QUESTION, A Super Awesome Life changing drink/food like MV Juice and you cant even answer why it is worth 10x more than V8 Fusion, this is only 1 of the many questions that have been ask. How about this, if the above question is to much for you then tell me and I will give you another! maybe a true or false question, that will give you a 50/50 chance.
Happy Joe, I know money is more important than being truthful with friends and family for you, but when did you disguard all facts ans logic? It is just grape juice(you do kow that dont you), 3 test have proven it, that is not my speculating or anyone on this posts speculating, this is FACTS from YOUR OWN COMPANIES studies and has been backed up by 2 more studies, I know your going to dodge this FACT by telling us all about how the Indy car runs on MV juice or some BS like that,But why not suck it up get you grow some balls and just PROVE US WRONG….. after all you are selling a “Super Drink”.
Please add all the comments you like, but in between could you toss in a few FACTS (if you have any) in relations to the questions we ask?
Joe Happy said,
“What motivates me is the personal benefits I get from MV, what motivates me is all of the people that I have helped to keep their homes and cars from the repo man, what motivates me is the people I have helped to start saving money to send their kids to college or put a down payment on their first home.”
you could keep more people safe from the repo man if you told them not to waste their money on a juice that you cant even prove has any more worth than grape juice.
College is also much easier to pay for if the average pay for your job is over $5 an hour.
(if you dont believe me you can always look at the ids….. http://media.monavie.com/pdf/corporate/income_disclosure_statement.pdf)
people seem to be making less year by year (according to the ids’s). If monavie is rocketing to the top and taking everyone along on this gravy train why the drop in average earning? Hell if its rocketing to the top why do you have to be in the top couple percent to be abe to make enough money to live on monavie alone?
Joe Happy’s claims about buying houses, cars, and educations is ridiculous. Monavies own numbers show that anyone who works at mcdonalds does considerably better than the average mv distributor.
@ Chris:
I doubt you really want the answer to this. However, if you do, please just give us a some more info on these alleged diamonds and the rumored small town in California, (names and town would be a good place to start)and I will be happy to research for you just “why and how” this came to be. If what you say is true, most likely there is a back story that you are unaware of.
Joe said:
Yes, some choice there Joe — limited to anyone who is gullible enough to pay you $45 for a bottle of grape juice. Why the false pretense? You’ll sell to anyone willing to buy your fraud juice right? Or are you trying to tell us that people are begging to buy the juice from you and you’re turning them down because they don’t meet your stringent standards? Let’s get real Joe. When you make a sales pitch to someone and they tell you to F-off, that isn’t YOUR choice, it’s theirs.
I haven’t heard about this before.
Dallin Larsen proposes partnering with Tom’s Shoes to make acai logo shoes with proceeds to benefit the people of Brazil. Did this proposal ever get any legs to it?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1KALRR8Dg&feature=related
Here’s an interesting little blog that apparently gives a positive spin to a certain leader in MonaVie…enough so as to garner a comment from Dallin Larsen himself. Hmmm…looks like MonaVie corporate can read blogs after all. Maybe they don’t become active, comment, or “take action” unless the blog is “postive” about MonaVie, Dallin, or the KingPins. http://www.mlmhelpdesk.com/2008/12/12/troy-dooly-publicaly-appologizes-to-top-mlm-leaders-randy-tara-schroeder-and-their-whole-monavie-team/
Joe said:
Well at least you are finally acknowledging that financial conflicts of interest DO matter. I think Weil’s points were straightforward and quite valid and he didn’t flog his supplements over Monavie; he recommended eating real fruit instead:
However, if we are to discount the opinions of those with any potential financial conflict of interest, let’s make sure that you and the other distributors never again mention people Alexander Schauss, Ralph Carson, Jose Allongo, Andrea Pennington, or any of the other shills that make money from Monavie and “endorse” the product. And by the same token, don’t ever mention Monavie’s sponsorship of race cars, cycling teams, or the Bo Sox, because these sponsorships also represent financial conflicts of interest. You can’t have it both ways Joe.
Vogel is correct in his last post as to conflicts of interest. Joe Happy would do well to read, comprehend, and act on the information Vogel has posted.
@Joe Happy: The link I referenced for Dr. Weil is posted here only because Dr. Weil’s article was referenced by the EBay reviewer who wrote the MonaVie warning guide that is posted on Ebay. It was posted to assist people in finding the exact article easily. He is no more my Dr. Weil than you are my best friend.
Candace said:
Great find Candace. I could be mistaken, but from what I can gather, this video was from the Anaheim regional meeting held in March 2008. Larsen mentions that the shoes would be available in Nordstrom’s and Macy’s in June, which would ostensibly refer to June 2008. I did a Google search and couldn’t find any references to a new “acai version” of Tom’s shoes. However, what I find most disturbing about this video is that these alleged shoes are clearly intended as a promotional initiative for Monavie.
“It was another goose bumps moment for me we said look, let’s invite our distributors to purchase Tom’s shoes with the acai berry on it and the MORE Project…so, so we’ve (sic) designing 2 or different pairs of shoes, we’re going to introduce it at the Orlando regional in June. So starting in June you can purchase a pair of Tom’s shoes with the Monavie – with, with the acai berry on it, it’s a door opener — what’s that – the acai berry, haven’t you heard about it; well understand y’know then, then you can tell them look…”
This kind of BS self-serving “philanthropy” makes me sick. It is advertising first and foremost and yet another way for Larsen to suck his distributors dry for his own personal gain. Larsen is a shady kingpin in the MLM juice business so he should stop trying to portray himself as Mother Theresa. He should leave charitable initiatives to honest people who know what they are doing.
Every dollar taken by one of Monavie’s self-serving “charitable” initiatives is a dollar robbed from a worthwhile charity that could have put it to better use – i.e. towards initiatives that actually help people and don’t involve advertizing a bull$h!t MLM grape juice scam.
Candace said:
Well, first, Larsen apparently will seize ANY opportunity for self aggrandizement, so it comes as no surprise that he would post on the blog of this contrite lickspittle of a distributor.
You also have to figure that someone from the company makes a point of monitoring the things that are being said about Monavie in the press and in highly-trafficked blogs (I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that someone from the company monitors this site specifically because a lot of the bad news about Monavie breaks here first).
I can just imagine the dialog at those company press briefings…something like this perhaps…
Dallin: So what are they saying? Good news or bad this week?
Adviser: Uh, not so good chief. A story went out on the Bloomberg News wire and they quoted your brother Randy admitting that that we have a problem with our distributors promoting Monavie as a miracle drug. We’re also still getting crucified by bloggers and some are claiming to have reported us to the FDA. Oprah’s mad as hell at us and the Rhode Island Attorney General is screaming bloody murder about acai scams.
Dallin: OK, how about if we sponsor an Indy race car and plaster the Monavie logo all over it. That ought to do the trick. Go grab me a million from petty cash and send out a solicitation notice to all our distributors for our new “Reading Glasses for Orphaned Amazonian Jungle Kids” campaign.
Re: Monavie and Tom’s Shoes
I did a bit more digging and confirmed that the shoe promotion was announced by Larsen at the Anaheim regional meeting on March 8, 2008 – it was due to launch in June 2008. This is an excerpt from an archived copy from Monavie on the Move (ironically, it appears just after Larsen’s article on integrity):
Apparently this project never got off the ground because there was no mention of it again ever by anyone; neither by Larsen, Monavie, Tom’s Shoes, nor the MORE Project. I guess Tom did a bit of research on Monavie and came to his senses in the nick of time or maybe Larsen just made the whole story up. One thing is obvious is that the drones in the Monavie organization will believe ANYTHING that Larsen says, so I’m sure he generated a lot of enthusiasm and got a lot of donations that day from people who believed that his charitable initiative was legit. What an a-hole!
I always like to google other products as well as my own to see the Positive and Negative Feedback. After reading most of these posts I think that the main concern comes down to the PRODUCT, not the sales person or the company, that is the issue. Does the product hold true to it’s claim to fame? Is it healthy and is it worth the price you have to pay? There have now been many tests (actual professional LAB tests done) and when making my decision on what product for my family to take I steered away from Monavie. Check it out for yourself at Mens Journal Magazine, December Issue page 100. Lab tests were done on many superjuices and Monavie was rated “Not So Super” it rated lower than Welchs Grape Juice in Vitamin C and Apple Juice in Nutrition. So what you should be concerned with instead of defending your business is are you USING and SHARING a product with hundreds of families that they could get elsewhere cheaper? Money is important of course…but if your own family is consuming this product it would make sense that you get all the facts!
Goodluck and Enjoy!
Interesting how the volume of postings by Monavie distributors seems to have fallen off in the last couple of days. Maybe they are all holding their breath hoping that Tomas Scheckter’s Monavie-sponsored race car will win the Indy 500 on Sunday and save Monavie’s sinking ship. They should be careful what they wish for.
The company’s sponsorship was an act of desperation and it could easily backfire on them. If Scheckter loses, then they come out looking like losers and the payoff on the sponsorship will be partially negated. If Scheckter wins, then the publicity will bring with it greater scrutiny of Monavie by a much wider audience than ever before, and as we all know, this product can’t hold up under scrutiny – and an Indy win certainly won’t keep the FDA at bay.
And why is the company pinning all of their hopes on this crappy new energy drink, which is diametrically opposed to their previous message about the juice blends promoting better health? Are they going to stop selling the juice altogether? Are they trying to distance themselves from the illegal claims that were widely used to promote Monavie juice? We should find out soon enough, assuming that the FDA, FTC, or IRS doesn’t shut them down first.
Vogel speculated: Apparently this project never got off the ground because there was no mention of it again ever by anyone; neither by Larsen, Monavie, Tom’s Shoes, nor the MORE Project. I guess Tom did a bit of research on Monavie and came to his senses in the nick of time or maybe Larsen just made the whole story up.>/i>
I guess you didn’t get the memo Mr. Speculation.
The TOM’s shoes deal is going strong, I actually purchased 40 pair of TOM Shoes in Dallas and TOM’s matched my purchase and I sent my 40 pair plus another 40 pair to Brazil. The kids love the shoes.
So what did you do this week to help anyone Vogel, mayhbe volunteered at your local soup kitchen, or maybe volunteered for Habitat for Humanity and did some painting or maybe poured a footing or two?
The volume died down because it’s a conspiracy. We all got together, every single frikkin’ distributor, and had a meeting to plan our next secret strategy. This week was ‘don’t bother posting on Lazy Man so Vogel can speculate week’. I guess it worked.
Candace says:
May 20, 2009 at 9:09 am
Vogel is correct in his last post as to conflicts of interest. Joe Happy would do well to read, comprehend, and act on the information Vogel has posted.
@Joe Happy: The link I referenced for Dr. Weil is posted here only because Dr. Weil’s article was referenced by the EBay reviewer who wrote the MonaVie warning guide that is posted on Ebay. It was posted to assist people in finding the exact article easily. He is no more my Dr. Weil than you are my best friend.
So you’re saying you referenced him because you don’t think his opinion is valid then, so which is it, do you agree with his expert opinion or don’t you. Why did you even bother to reference his opinion, just because he has MD after his name?
Also, the TOM shoes thing. You are also a major speculator just like Vogel in my opinion. You simply have no clue, and just because MV doesn’t wave the flag about TOM shoes and you don’t know what’s going on, which you don’t, it does not mean it isn’t so. Why don’t you just contact TOM shoes and ask instead of spreading your crap.
This is exactly the same thing you guys did when you claimed Monavie was not an official juice of the Boston Red Sox, which they were then and are again this year. Just because you did a poor job of researching it or contacting the Red Sox office directly you simply said it was a lie. Again, very typical here. Just as typical as your TOM shoes junk. Very irresponsible actions.
Joe said:
No, I didn’t get memo…and I looked for it all over Google…and like I said, after Larsen announced this phantom project in 2008, it was never mentioned again in any official company materials, or on the MORE Project website, or on the Tom’s Shoes website. I would hardly call it “going strong” when the only activity we know of is your alleged purchase of 40 pairs of shoes. The company finds the energy to spend a boatload of cash sponsoring a race car and yet we are to believe that they can’t invest the energy to advertise their alleged charitable initiative, or at least offer some evidence that it exists at all. I think it’s safe to say that, at the very least, the company plays very fast and loose with so called “charitable” efforts.
The company should have given the money they spent on that race car sponsorship to the kids in Brazil instead, but of course they only do that sort of thing when the distributors are footing the bill; they aren’t about spend their own money.
Candace says:
May 20, 2009 at 9:09 am
Vogel is correct in his last post as to conflicts of interest. Joe Happy would do well to read, comprehend, and act on the information Vogel has posted.
@Joe Happy: The link I referenced for Dr. Weil is posted here only because Dr. Weil’s article was referenced by the EBay reviewer who wrote the MonaVie warning guide that is posted on Ebay. It was posted to assist people in finding the exact article easily. He is no more my Dr. Weil than you are my best friend.
Well at least you now admit that it was an eBay poster and not a warning from eBay as you previously posted, or what you would or Vogel would say if it was me that posted it, LIED about it.
The company should have given the money they spent on that race car sponsorship to the kids in Brazil instead, but of course they only do that sort of thing when the distributors are footing the bill; they aren’t about spend their own money.
Again, you are as clueless as ever, you don’t have a clue how much corporate gives to Brazil, or how much all the executives give personally to the MORE project, not to mention that MV corporate pays ALL the expenses and administration costs for the MORE project 100% of the money collected goes to the field for all of the projects.
It bothered me originally when you and your group of thugs attacked the MORE project, but frankly I don’t give a crap anymore because it comes from you and your little group. The more you post your speculations, especially about the MORE project, the more fanatical and hateful you look.
Maybe someone can post some audit of how much corporate is giving to Brazil. That would certainly be a good start…
… Or perhaps you (Joe Happy) can give us information on the TOM’s shoe project that you claim is going strong, since we can’t find it? Or perhaps you can give us a source for Foster Farms upcoming juice product that you claim? Perhaps you can give us the source of Chromadex supplying other juices?
You realize these are all speculations on your part Joe? They aren’t even speculations as you posted them as fact without proof. That’s a million times worse than making an educated speculation. It’s flat-out lying. Anyone applying any logic to their thought process will see that as looking much more “fanatical and hateful.”
There’s little need for speculation on the MORE Project. We can already see that the MORE Project is clearly misusing funds.
Today’s Farm Report:
ORAC Score: MonaVie: 22.81 umoles
Peanut Butter: 34.32 umoles
Total Phenolics (plant-based antioxidants):
MonaVie: 1.48 mg/ml
Peanut Butter: 5.36 mg/gm
MonaVie data from AIBMR Study (Dr. Schauss)
Peanut Butter data from USDA ORAC Table of Selected Foods (2007)
Happy Joe, can you explain why Peanut Butter has a higher ORAC and Phenolics score than your $40 a bottle of super juice?
Maybe the company forgot to add the following.
” After you enjoy a serving of Peanut Butter, take 2~4oz of MV juice to wash it down”
Maybe the super juice was invented to ONLY wash down a product that actually has some value to it…..
Please correct my speculation Joe, you can do that by listing some FACTS. What do you think, are you ready to correct all of us, are you ready to be a hero!!!!!
joe happy
please clear up some points so we wont have any more speculation.
Joe Happy
what in monavie warrants its exuberant price?
Please explain how monavie is heping people with these large purchases that you mentioned. Monavie’s own income disclosure sheet shows that the average monavie distributor makes less than…well anyone making min. wage, way less than people making min. wage.
You like to argue about anything but the product you sell. thats very telling
Peanut Butter??!!
Amazing. Before long, with Food Tech’s and Vogel’s knowledge of foods and science, we’ll have an entire grocery aisle of food sources that out perform MonaVie in the antioxidant department. Simply remarkable.
@JoeHappy:
You should really try to avoid these kinds of intellectual debates. You only reinforce what I’ve said before about your lack of reading and comprehension skills. Anyone on this planet reading your comment can see exactly what I said. But, I’ll answer your question that you laced with more innuendos and implications. What I was saying is…, wow, huge discovery, what I actually typed. You can always read it again if you didn’t get it the first time.
And by the way, we are still waiting for a few things you said you could prove or that you would get for us….let me refresh your memory:
1. Proof that ChromaDex is marketing products that compete with MonaVie.
2. Proof that ChromaDex falsified the lab results on the two unopened bottles of MonaVie provided to them by a MonaVie distributor.
3. Proof that Foster Farms is coming out with a juice line.
4. Proof that MonaVie’s Policies and Procedures have been changed or updated since February 24, 2009.
5. That contact list of “the right people” at MonaVie to talk to.
I’m sure there are more, but we can start with those.
Someone reputable please correct me if you discover more info that counters the following:
It appears that the Tom’s Shoes movement: “One for One”, is their movement and theirs alone.
The following page is current as of April 2009:
http://www.tomsshoes.com/content.asp?tid=460
More info on the Tom’s Shoe Drop Tour:
http://www.tomsshoes.com/content.asp?tid=274
More on the Tom’s Shoes Movement:
http://www.tomsshoes.com/content.asp?tid=273
Their products supporting their own cause:
http://www.tomsshoes.com/productlistframe.aspx?CategoryID=11
Current Tom’s Shoes endorsements/promotions:
http://www.tomsshoes.com/content.asp?tid=468
Tom’s Shoes’ product line, oddly, I don’t see anything that says “MonaVie” or even “Acai”.
http://www.tomsshoes.com/productlistframe.aspx?CategoryID=8
My impressions: at first glance, this looks like a highly reputable company doing a very good and much needed service around the globe, on their own. Kudos to Tom’s shoes. I don’t see one thing that ties them to MonaVie in any way.
Peanut Butter??!!
Amazing. Before long, with Food Tech’s and Vogel’s knowledge of foods and science, we’ll have an entire grocery aisle of food sources that out perform MonaVie in the antioxidant department. Simply remarkable.
Yea Candace, it wont be long before Hot dogs have a higher ORAC score than the juice!!!!
LOL @j-man! And if we stuff the hot dogs chock full of lattimore’s (name suggestion coming up) “BarryLatt Awesome Pills”, just think!! Maybe pigs CAN fly!! (I like the “BarryLatt” because it gives the pills that faux fruit vitamin and mineral sounding credibility that is so en vogue these days. But maybe Barry should change his name to Berry. It’s better for the marketing materials. Whaddaya think?) 8-)
Joe said:
Total BS Joe. You can’t even tell a good lie. First of all, I scoured Tom’s website, their product lines, and all their press releases and wouldn’t you know it, they never mentioned anything about making “acai” shoes for Monavie. I also looked at the details of their charitable program for supplying shoes to needy kids, and according to their terms, when someone buys a pair of shoes from Tom’s, it is Tom’s that donates the second pair to needy kids – according to your lie, Tom’s sent you the extra shoes and you sent them to Brazil – not believable! Tell you what though Joe, you can send Lazyman a photo of the shoes, or a copy of your purchase receipt, or even the address that these shoes were allegedly sent to in Brazil.
Joe said:
I never said that it wasn’t an official juice – I merely expressed considerable skepticism because no official document from either Monavie or the BoSox ever acknowledged the sponsorship deal. We discussed this on Lazyman extensively in February 2009 and several of us contacted the BoSox requesting information about the alleged sponsorship.
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/monavie-scam-was-my-wife-recruited-sell-snake-oil/comment-page-16/#comment-126471
It was only after we had that discussion when the first official press release announcing the sponsorship deal appeared (from Monavie) on April 23 2009 – 2 months later.
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090423005235&newsLang=en
Looking at the chronology (a) you cannot accuse of us of lying because no official confirmation of the sponsorship deal had been released when we were discussing this topic, and (b) Monavie probably paid the BoSox sponsorship fees AFTER we expressed our doubts. Looks to me like Monavie got called to the mat by the Bo Sox and then finally had to pay (or risk getting sued). Yes, that’s speculation — but it’s also reasonable speculation.
Joe said:
Nope, you’re right…I don’t have a clue…and neither do you. The MORE Project has yet to release the financial details in their IRS990 (assuming they filed one) or on their website. If you want to put some evidence on the table, I’ll be glad to look it over though.
It bothers me even more that you use pictures of doe-eyed kids and talk about saving orphans and rainforests when it’s all just self-serving spin-doctored advertorial BS.
I wonder how the MORE Project would hold up to an IRS audit. Let’s find out. Here’s a link for IRS tax cheat whistblower program.
http://www.irs.gov/compliance/article/0,,id=180171,00.html
Here’s something that I find very interesting. Monavie made a huge fuss about how it was launching a Kosher version of Monavie.
http://monavieonthemove.com/monavie-product-receives-us-kosher-certification/
However, a little digging revealed that Sambazon’s acai juices, which are far better quality that Monavie dog pi$$, have been kosher all along.
http://www.sambazon.com/faq.html
So what did Monavie have to suddenly do to get Kosher approval? Did they finally have to sweep out the rat turds from the bottling plant?
This is one of many examples (e.g. sterols) in which Monavie claims to be doing something unique and innovative, when all they are doing is following in the footsteps of some other company.. There is nothing unique about Monavie other than its idiotic price and the lack of wits among the dullards who sell it.
new article i ran across from the Berkley medical center
http://www.wellnessletter.com/html/wl/wlFeatured.html
Beautiful! We should be reaching critical mass any day now.
Excellent, Lattimore.
Another thought on the name for your Super Awesome Pills. What about BerryMore Super Awesome Pills? Then you have a faux celebrity sounding endorsement as well s a faux fruit claim. :-)
Candace, that’s a genius idea. i’ll run it by barry after he gets out of his hyperbaric chamber. he’s trying to see what 30 atmospheres of awesome does to the body. we tried to make an awesome chamber that worked at 1 atmosphere. we went back to calling it the kitchen though.
peanut butter flavored berrymore Pills??? high in everything except for the stuff it’s low in.
Monavie and Indy
On May 21, I said the following:
On May 22 CNBC reported the following in an article entitled Is MonaVie Endorsement Risky?:
Looks like I called this one right; not that it took the insight of Nostradamus to see it coming. The wheels sure are falling off Monavie’s rickety wagon quickly though aren’t they?
Vogel, that’s quite a gem you found.
Why am I not surprised? 8-)
48. Vogel says:
May 22, 2009 at 12:38 pm
http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/monavie-scam-was-my-wife-recruited-sell-snake-oil/comment-page-28/#comment-137485
It’s a news story, very nice. Oh by the way, did you get written permission to rip it from the CNBC site and post it here on the Lazy Man blog. I see you ommited the copyright line as well. The one that says…
© 2009 CNBC, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Oh wait, actually you didn’t get permission, I checked and they said that no one from Lazy Man blog got permission to copy and post the story here, so Lazy should be getting an email.
Illegal practices here on Lazy Man blog by Vogel, and cheered on by Candace, two peas in a pod, tsk tsk. Can you say copyright infringement? Have a fun weekend ya’ll.
I thought about disallowing it and cutting it up, but the fact of the matter is that it’s not copied in it’s entirety – there are paragraphs omitted. It is quoted and it is properly cited.
If CNBC contacts me, I’ll edit it.
In the meantime, this goes to show that Vogel is ahead of the game… even when he is “speculating.”
Paragraph posted from May 22 CNBC reported the following in an article entitled Is MonaVie Endorsement Risky?:
When you consider that it costs approximately $1,800 to buy the required one case (four bottles) a month to take part in commissions, it’s all a wash.
© 2009 CNBC, Inc. All Rights Reserved
The CNBC reporter must have come to Lazy Man blog to do his research.
He didn’t get that figure here so don’t make snide accusations you can’t back up. Seems like a simple enough correction. Go bother CNBC and I’m sure they’ll amend it for you.
The problem is not my intelligence but the fact that you made a false accusation, over a simple typo, that this blog was somehow responsible for providing faulty data to CNBC.
CNBC wrote “it costs approximately $1,800 to buy the required one case (four bottles)” when they obviously meant $180.00 (4 x $45). If it bothers you, go bring it to the attention of CNBC, like I said before, and they’ll probably add that missing decimal point.
[I'm cleaning up some of the language and bickering here... doesn't add anything...]
I think people have a reading comprehension problem here. He’s comparing the annualized income of distributors to the annual cost of their juice and says it’s a wash:
Maybe I’m missing the math problem here. He says that 82% of distributors make $2,032. Then he claims that the minimum requirement they have to spend for a year is $1800.
That $1800 works out to 12 months of $150… A case of juice (4 bottles of $37) is actually $159 from this source. So he underestimated a bit…
… but he did forget to mention shipping. The aforementioned site charges $15.90 to ship a case to me. That makes the total cost:
$174.90 a month
or
$2098 a year
or
$2032 – $2098 = -$66
So 82% of distributors are losing $66 each year for their hard work.
I think the CNBC reporter was actually pretty accurate in his statement. Definitely within a very small margin of error.
LazyMan, your take is exactly how I interpreted and understood it as well. If anything, he was on the lower side of the cost issue as he didn’t factor in shipping and more than one family member drinking the juice.
Vogel says:
May 22, 2009 at 4:05 pm
The problem is not my intelligence but the fact that you made a false accusation, over a simple typo, that this blog was somehow responsible for providing faulty data to CNBC.
CNBC wrote “it costs approximately $1,800 to buy the required one case (four bottles)” when they obviously meant $180.00 (4 x $45). If it bothers you, go bring it to the attention of CNBC, like I said before, and they’ll probably add that missing decimal point.
Ya, cool so you can just post any crap as fact and nobody is responsible, even though you have established that you’re some sort of expert.
So decimal point or not, either way he is still wrong at $180 a case, it’s $120 a case, that’s a $60 per case mistake, and he’s a professional reporter and can’t get it right and you then spread it as fact because neither you or this blog is responsible. It just shows us that people reading here should be aware that this happens often and not take anything here at face value.
He Said : When you consider that it costs approximately $1,800 to buy the required one case (four bottles) a month to take part in commissions, it’s all a wash. He is talking about taking part in commissions, so that is $120 a case not $180. Obviouslly people don’t always get their researched infomation correct, not even professionals. But it still goes on record as fact even though it is grossly incorrect.
Good thing he isn’t posting here. You’d be the first to start screaming LIARRRR.
Joe Happy,
Seems to me that your efforts are misdirected. If you have a problem with the CNBC report, than you need to contact them.
By the way, where are the answers to our questions? Always with the posting and railing against all kinds of things, but never with any factual answers to the questions here.
You’re singlehandedly giving “relationship marketing” and MonaVie a bad name. :-)
Actually, if you go back and re-read your own posts, you have just described yourself.
You said ChromaDex falsified lab results.
You said ChromaDex is a competitor to MonaVie.
You said Foster Farms was coming out with a juice line competing with MonaVie.
You said there is a more recent than Feb. 24, 2009 MonaVie Policies and Procedures.
And there are many more things you’ve stated on here as fact with nary a shred of evidence to back them up.
Joe Happy said:
Can you point us to the official source? I couldn’t find it on MonaVie.com. Perhaps not being an unprofessional reporter, but obvious information isn’t made readily available to the general public.
I cited my source that had it at $174.90 per month with shipping, feel free to cite your source. I think that’s pretty close to $180. I’m willing to let a $5 mistake go… perhaps it’s more for shipping where he lives.
Also, as I showed, it’s the price for a year of juice. Even if it’s $120 for a case, it’s still $1440 a year before shipping… $1625 or so after shipping. That’s only $175 a year off of his estimate… it’s not close to being a $60 a month mistake that you made it out to be…
…unless you live in a world with only 10 months and free shipping.
Let’s put the hair splitting to rest. CNBC said the following:
“Its 2008 income disclosure statement reveals that 82 percent of distributors make an average of $2,032 or less. When you consider that it costs approximately $1,800 to buy the required one case (four bottles) a month to take part in commissions, it’s all a wash.”
The wholesale price of Monavie Active is $130 per 4-bottle case.
http://www.bbsradio.com/monavie/Price_List_5-02-08.pdf
That works out to $1,560 annually rather than the approximate figure of $1,800 quoted by CNBC. That’s only off by 15%. This doesn’t affect CNBCs conclusion in the slightest – it still works out to be a wash more or less. At $1,560 a year, the difference works out to a mere $472 pocketed annually by the distributor.
Oops, darn, I forgot shipping and taxes. Guess CNBC was were only off by about %5 or so.
Let’s get back to discussing the REAL liars. Like Monavie Diamond distributors Vincent and Kari St. Louis, who published the following false/misleading/illegal claims in the Team 212 Monavie New Distributor Handbook v2.0 (Jan 01, 2009):
Monavie is NOT equivalent to 13 servings of fruit.
Monavie is not patented, nor does it have 10x as many nutrients as its competitors — Men’s Journal/Chromadex reported that the nutrient levels in Monavie are lower than in apple juice or grape juice)
http://www.mensjournal.com/superjuices-on-trial
According to the FDA, it’s illegal for a distributor to imply that Monavie can prevent, treat, or cure any disease.
http://www.fda.gov/cder/warn/cyber/2007/UTVokes.pdf
Vinny and Kari also recommend that new distributors purchase the following (see page 2 and elsewhere):
– 12 cases of Monavie
– Cooler, ice bags, and cups
– 5 Success Mastery Guides
– Business Cards
– Brochures
– DVDs, etc.
The 12 cases alone sell for about $1,000 not including shipping and taxes. This makes CNBC’s cost estimates seem extremely conservative. There are no doubt many people out there that have lost thousands of dollars by making such ill-advised purchases from Monavie.
I’ve got to split one more hair regarding the CNBC data calculations. Seems they made one other mistake. They referred to the annual revenue of the bottom 82% of the company as $2,032 — it’s actually quite a bit less than that. According to the IDS only the 30,239 distributors at Star level (37%) made $2,032 in 2008.
http://media.monavie.com/pdf/corporate/income_disclosure_statement.pdf
The 36,295 individuals at the Distributor level (45%) averaged only $1,536. The average annual revenue of those 66,534 distributors together (the 82% that CNBC referred to) was only $1,761.43.
The average annual cost of Monavie Active at the wholesale price for 1 case per month is $1,560 not including shipping and taxes (roughly $1,720 with shipping). That means that 82% of active distributors basically made nothing ($1,761 minus at least $1,720). And that’s a conservative estimate. If they invested in any promotional materials, sales training, or meetings, then it would have cost them money for the privilege of making their crooked slave masters rich.
Joe said:
Well, as you can see, I would have no reason to call him a liar because he wasn’t “grossly incorrect” — his conclusion was dead accurate — overly conservative in fact. I would have politely corrected his calculations. YOU, however, I will continue to call a liar.
Joe said:
Oh please stop with this philanthropy BS already Joe. Stick to the scam juice business and leave philanthropy to the honest folks.
We all know where the MORE Project’s money really comes from – the distributors; not the company. They suck it out of them by convincing them to sign up to have their donations to the MORE Project automatically deducted from their commission checks…
http://www.themoreproject.com/iclickforkids/
…and they charge distributors $3,000 for the privilege of visiting and assisting the MORE Project in Brazil.
https://secure.themoreproject.org/us/GIVE/FORMS/expeditiononline.php
What administrative costs does that leave for the company to pay? The MORE Project is a cash cow for the company; a taxpayer subsidized slush fund for Monavie juice advertising; a thin veneer of goodness to cover up a legacy of malfeasance and blatant greed.
J-O-E H-A-P-P-Y said:
Ya, cool so you can just post any crap as fact and nobody is responsible, even though you have established that you’re some sort of expert.
Now that you said this, will you start backing us some of your BS with FACTS?????
Just guessing….
That this MonaVie website belonging to Kenneth Robles is not a MonaVie approved website.
http://www.myspace.com/monavie_09
Doesn’t look like MonaVie’s herding it’s cats very well.
And the very first video on this website can also be seen on YouTube at this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4DOQ6Xhqss
While I agree with some of the info on this video, I am completely opposed to it being used to promote MonaVie. MonaVie has two chemical preservatives in it and is not organic. Something the video strongly opposes.
More misleading advertising not to mention violations to MonaVie’s Policies and Procedures.
From Orrin Woodward’s Tools Website:
http://www.the-team.biz/shophome/product/tabid/94/p-652-mvp-1-monavie-extraordinary-process-brochure-pack.aspx
We all know it’s not patented. Even the grand pooh-bah triple dipper grand dragon mega diamond with a cherry on top can’t get it right. No wonder the average distributor repeats inaccurate or misleading info, they get it from the people who should know better.
And if you’re serious about your business, you can order this bad boy to carry in your trunk, it’ll only set you back a grand, but of course that’s tax deductible as a business expense. Oh and there’s free shipping right now for purchases over $500.00:
http://www.the-team.biz/shophome/product/tabid/94/p-966-tl-146-media-1000-tool-trunk.aspx
Or you can step up and get the big boy’s papa for only 2K:
http://www.the-team.biz/shophome/product/tabid/94/p-967-tl-147-media-warrior-2000-tool-trunk.aspx
Shakes her head and goes about her day
Team.Biz quote:
We have learned that by leveraging information we can awaken people to their dreams and build their beliefs. This trunk helps leaders inspire, inform, and educate others on the principles and specifics of building a successful MonaVie/Team community.
Oh shit, they have found the ARK!!!!!
I wonder if it has a bottle of Peanut Butter…
Candace, you missed one of the better advertising tricks with those items….
The items are listed as:
Media 1000 Tool Trunk and Media Warrior 2000 Tool Trunk
but when you look at the bottom, it says, “* trunk not included”
It’s almost like the Steven Wright joke where he bought some batteries, but they weren’t included so he had to buy them again.
D’OH!! I did see that, but I guess I was so unsurprised by it I failed to mention it in my post. So…if they found the Ark, they are only willing to let one purchase it’s contents. Like the story LazyMan described, or buying a cup of tea, but the price doesn’t include the container. :-)
Hey…would we get a pro-rated price on MonaVie juice if we purchased it sans bottle?
I am sure it has all we need LM to “hook all the suckers with our down line BS”
How stupid do we get over this crap, it’s nothing more than a a trunk of toilet paper,teaching people to sell purple piss!!!
Candace – wonderful find! I did a quick analysis of what you get in the Media 2000 and Media 1000 trunks and found you actually pay more than if you purchased these items individually!
http://tinyurl.com/oddgzg
What do you expect? Orrin honed his tool scamming skills when he was with Amway, check out the facts here: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/9-steps-of-truth.html
Candace and all, IF we do NOT have tools, then tell me, HOW do you build a community of like-minded individuals who UNDERSTAND the benefits of commerce through community?
Do NOT go off-topic – just tell me HOW a leader can form a community of a million people without the tools of the system?
Best Regards,
Rykel
Hmmmm, how would it be possible to build a community? That’s pretty difficult, Rykel. I can’t imagine how I might do it, unless, wait, I built a website. Maybe not just any website, but I’ll use some catchy technology like a blog.
Hundreds of thousands of people will visit it from over 250 countries in search of one thing, a better way to manage money. I’ll create the community by earning their trust – proving at every step of the way that there is value for them. If I fail to present that value, they’ll go elsewhere with their valuable time and my community will crumble.
One of the ways I’ll earn that trust is by answering those who question me with logical answers. If my logic fails, others will point it out and the community will fall. One thing I will never intentionally do is ignore difficult questions. That will be viewed by the community as admitting that I don’t have a good reason for believe what I believe in. I won’t try to hide behind a veil of exclusivity and suggest that some community members are not worthy or suggest that the benefit of starting this community is that I get to pick who is in it.
I will be open to everyone that plays by the same rules – stays on the topic and backs up their assertion with logic and citations.
I will call the community Lazy Man and Money.
Brilliant post LM!
And speaking of tools (and by “tools” I am referring to “sales tools”, not the “tools” who sell Monavie)…
I just found out that the latest entrant into the Monavie tools business –- Genesis Worldwide Tools — appears to be run by the same company that runs Direct Selling News and Success From Home magazine (the advertorial publication that distributes that godawful Monavie promo issue). They have the same address as Genesis (200 Swisher Rd in Lake Dallas, TX).
http://www.genwwvideo.com/genwwtools/index.php?main_page=contact_us&zenid=hrole7cgd3m94kbm220dn0cna2
http://www.directsellingnews.com/index.php/contact
http://www.successfromhome.com/contact.php
Here’s a question for the Monavie distributors –- one which, of course, they will never answer — how much of the company’s alleged revenue is derived from the sale of sales tools? I’m guessing that it’s a significant percentage. Maybe they should change the sales pitch to something like this:
“How would you like to join a company that made a billion dollars (allegedly) by selling juice and sales tools to its own distributors? You can help it become a $2 billion dollar company by signing up as a distributor and recruiting even more people to buy our sales tools (except you’ll never see a red cent of that revenue because it all goes straight to Dallin and a handful of his Black Diamond Slave-master pals that joined the company on Day 1). Once you have purchased our sales tools, you will be fully prepared to help sell our sales tools to other suckers. And now for a limited time only, we are offering $1,800 worth of sales tools for the low, low price of only $2,000!”
Vogel said : Here’s a question for the Monavie distributors –- one which, of course, they will never answer — how much of the company’s alleged revenue is derived from the sale of sales tools? I’m guessing that it’s a significant percentage. Maybe they should change the sales pitch to something like this:
What tools are you referring to, hats and shirts?
Don’t play possum with us son. You know perfectly well what “sales tools” refers to. If you have any reliable earnings data on tools sales or branded merchandise, then put it on the table.
I just found out that the driver Monavie sponsored at today’s Indy, Tomas Scheckter, made big news a while back after he got arrested for whore chasing – he lost his sponsorship with Jaguar as a result.
http://atlasf1.autosport.com/news/2001/may/report.php/id/4302/.html
Isn’t it ironic that of all the drivers Monavie could have sponsored, they picked one who, like them, tries to screw people for money!
Scheckter’s link to Monavie is through his girlfriend, who is a distributor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YkNIbEDUyI
Monavie couldn’t come up with enough money to sponsor a driver capable of finishing in the top 10…now that’s pathetic. Most of your organization makes below poverty level wages; meanwhile the CEO blows money on misguided promotional initiatives – again, that’s pathetic. Don’t feel sorry for me son. I sleep well at night knowing that I’m not earning my bread by ripping off little old ladies and cancer patients.
Here’s a prediction for you all. I’ll bet that the company’s next move will be to start selling scads of overpriced Monavie-branded Indy 500 merchandise to their own distributors. It’s not even a question of if, but when. Racing jerseys, t-shirts, die-cast cars…endless possibilities for pillage and plunder.
Joe it is your posts that are pathetic, at least Vogel gives us links and info to back up what he says and answers questions with valuable facts. We can then research the information for ourselves.
Monavie would have been better off backing my countries Indy racer, Scott Dixson who won the Indy last year, 6th today leading for 73 laps … but I doubt he would need to steep so low to be sponsored by a Juice Scam.
… funny Herbalife did better off today at the Indy.
http://www.indy500.com/stats/view/results/year/2009
Glen
Hah! Bested by a rival MLM…the ultimate humiliation.
Rykel,
You need to separate the concepts of “tools” and “tool scam.” Here’s a clue: The difference is the price. Understand?
Joe, you may want to reconsider your “happy” identity. Looks to me like Orrin’s tool scam is falling apart. From http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2009/05/23/team-media-tool-trunk-waste-of-money/#comments there is a comment that states:
mike, believe it. Team customers get zero breaks when they buy materials in bulk. They actually pay more for bundles for the privilege of having the tools bundled. So you’re right, it is insanity and it’s why everyone (Randy Haugen) is storming the gates to get away from Team.
For the tool scam facts, go here: http://texsquixtarblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/9-steps-of-truth.html
Joe,
Your comment about website traffic was again off-topic, and I had taken it out. However, just to show you that your measuring stick logic is flawed… here’s a link to LazyManAndMoney.com vs. MonaVie.com’s growth over the last year using Compete.
http://siteanalytics.compete.com/monavie.com+lazymanandmoney.com/?metric=uv&months=12
Note that MonaVie traffic is down 31.61% over the last year and down more than 21% in the last month. Lazy Man and Money’s traffic is up 44.89% for the year and and up 9.16% over the last month.
You pulled a nice trick. You came pretty close to smacking me down. What more do you want?
You can’t say that Compete is off because it’s the same measuring stick for both right?
@ Rykel,
Rykel, I know you haven’t posted here before, but FYI, the people who go off topic on this site are usually the MonaVie distributors. No need to implore the rest of us.
I know you have a frequent online presence, I’ve read many of your comments on several different sites over the past year or so.
I can’t recall if you were a part of TEAM before Orrin the Pied Piper led them all to MonaVie. But if you spend more than a few minutes searching you’ll see the irony in Orrin’s current tool scam versus what he railed so strongly against while he was a part of Scam…Amway/Quixtar. He “fought” for transparency, he railed against the higher pins making so much money off the tools, he screamed for Amway to show some integrity…and edifies himself as someone with high morals, ethics, and integrity…and then turns around and cleans his distributor’s pockets…you know…the distributors who praised him month after month after month on his online self worship…oops…business communication blog.
I believe you know this already.
Woodward preached against the company and the pins that were doing just what he is doing now.
What is the saying…”Methinks he doth protest too much”.
Rykel, you know all of this already. And Lazy Man gave you the very best answer anyone could have given.
Here’s another suggestion: He could upload the “tools” on his website, and included with your yearly membership fee is the right to download any media, print off any brochure, listen to any podcast, all without any additional charge. But that is something one would make available only if one really wanted one’s team players to be fully educated and informed and if the product side of the business were the part one were interested in building….it is something one would NOT do if one wanted to make a boatload of money off the masses.
For me, I find certain aspects of this to be pretty humorous. Like the fact that already the MonaVie upper pins are scamming one another and trying to distance themselves from each other…so they can each keep a bigger part of the tool pie. It took many years for them to reach that point in Amway/Quixtar.
Implosion is likely imminent.
Vipers biting vipers…what a surprise.
Gee…I wonder why MonaVie distributors keep thinking and telling people that MonaVie juice is equal to or can replace all their RDA of fruits?
Courtesy of Woodward/Brady:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qd20HKSGSY&feature=related
Candace,
I agree with most of your posts above, but can you give a single example of Orrin doing this?
“…he railed against the higher pins making so much money off the tools….”
Joe you are best to go away and scrape the bottom of the barrel of Monavie you might find a few anti-oxidants at the bottom.
You offer no links, answer no direct questions and have little researched facts to offer this blog.
If you can not stand up to the questions and be the advocate for Monavie we are expecting to allow effective and valuable debate then just don’t post … and find another Monavie who can at least stay on topic, debate, offer researched facts and back it all up.
Glen
Hey, Tex, Thanks for the good question. I am well aware that you are a strong Amway supporter and a just as strong LCK (Lying Cowardly Kingpins) opponent. What an interesting position to find yourself in.
I had read many blog posts and comments back from when there was a TOD (Team of Destiny) website. I had also read comments on Orrin’s personal blog. I have also had conversation with downline in the TOD organization. You know, perhaps better than most, how these comments disappear and how websites get scrubbed. I recall posts about Randy & Val joining up with TOD’s way of teaching and comments about Orrin’s thoughts on unethical tool income…when it was out of proportion with the product income. There is some reference to that here (which you are already aware of): http://amthrax.wordpress.com/category/system/team-system/page/2/
For others reading this comment, this post written by Amthrax is intended as humor and is well written. However; Orrin’s true words can be found in the black boxes. You can see where he falls on what is an acceptable (to him) profit margin to have with sales tools.
Then there is this post (which I linked to quite some time ago here on Lazy Man’s blog) in which under the comments you can see the profits he was making on sales tools in Amway/Quixtar: http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/orrin-woodward-climbing-to-the-top/
And if you go back to God only knows when on this blog, you’ll see my link to Orrin’s actual blog where he typed that comment himself.
But this is all old territory for you, Tex.
Can I show you a place where he decried the other diamonds and their practices of collecting what he thought was too much tool money? Not anymore. Perhaps I could if I spent days researching it, but I don’t have the time for that at this point in my life.
I am surprised, though, with the vast amount of info you have on your blog, that you don’t have any reference of this. I know you’ve been following this type of activity for quite some time.
That said, I’ll be happy to amend my previous comments which include this sentence “he railed against the higher pins making so much money off the tools”
to now state this: He states “If the profits from the training become higher than the profits from the business, then you are probably entering the danger zone. A good rule of thumb would be that profits from training ought to be around half of what you make from the network marketing company.” However, while building his Amway/Quixtar business he concedes in his own words that “(he) made 4-5 times more income from the tools business than from Amway bonuses.”
Since the comments on Amthrax’ post were your own, Tex, I know this isn’t new info for you. Maybe it will help some other readers here.
Than you for catching that, as you know things can get pretty confusing with all the LCKs to keep track of.
Candace,
Just to be clear, I am an Amway supporter when it comes to the business that is offered to prospects, but NOT the way Amway has allowed the LCKs to operate. I have had many “run ins” with Amway over this issue, so don’t come to the conclusion I’m in bed with them in any way. If you want to understand who I am FOR, it is the typical IBO, to have an honest, ethical, and moral business, not the LCKs or Amway. In fact, my “interesting position” has been validated in the UK the past couple of years, if you’re familiar with what that chapter in the tool scam story.
As far as Orrin is concerned, he stated on his own blog his Emeralds and above made 4-5 times more from tools than Amway, and it is an unverified rumore that MV limits tool profit to 50% of their MV profit. There is no evidence this is true, nor is there any evidence that even if true, it was Orrin’s choice to limit the tool scam profit to 50% of MV profit.
TODAY’S FARM REPORT
ORAC: Monavie: 22.81 umoles
Plums: 62.59 umoles
TOTAL PHENOLICS (all plant-based antioxidants)
Monavie: 1.48 mg/ml
Plums: 3.67 mg/gm
Monavie data from AIBMR Study (sponsored by Monavie) Data on plums from USDA ORAC Table of Selected Foods (2007)
Keep ‘em coming FT.
What doesn’t have less antioxidants than Monavie? Onion skins? Sawdust? Tap water?
Does anyone have any idea about the identity of the Monavie distributor(s) who runs the website
http://www.Realhealthanswers.com ?
It is a Monavie misinformation/sales tools site teeming with disease treatment claims, and the site’s operator is spamming YouTube with Monavie propaganda videos.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RealHealthAnswersCom
I sure would like to know who’s behind it. I wonder if it’s a member of Orrin Woodward’s TEAM? Joe, perhaps you can answer that for us.
Hey Lazy Man et al cronies,
You claim to have all the answers on community building. What community have you built besides this one? Or do you all just sit at your laptops day after day and complain?
I highly doubt anyone would follow you into business based on the intelligence I’m reading on this page, which is probably why none of you have significant followings anywhere. I’m sure, though, you all feel better getting together like this. Let me know when you actually help somebody. I won’t hold my breath.
Caleb,
I don’t claim to have all the answers on community building. I was asked how it was possible and gave one example. Building valuable communities takes time and effort and I don’t know anyone who runs multiple really successful communities at one time. Even Gawker Media has an editor and writer for each of it’s communities.
Keep in mind that this conversation isn’t about building communities. The fact that you are bringing it to there simply shows me that focus of MonaVie isn’t on the product itself. It’s the MLM network.
If the juice itself was a good value to consumers, there wouldn’t be discussion of building multiple communities. The discussion would be the advantages and value of the juice.
Caleb said:
I’m sure, though, you all feel better getting together like this. Let me know when you actually help somebody. I won’t hold my breath.
Well, we cant cure Swine flu or cancer, or ADD, like so many of you guys have done by drinking the “juice”
So I guess we will have to stick to Peanut butter and Plums, after all they have a higher ORAC score than the juice. can you explain this?
Would you “oh so smart one of the community” like to explain why your super juice is nothing more than grape juice?
The reason we complain is because no one can be honest and JUST ANSWER THE F_ING QUESTIONS, why dont you have any answers that have been ask?????? Are you going to do like all of the pro MVer’s on this site, talk about and comment on everything but the FACTS????? Can you or anyone in your community explain why the purple power is 10x more than V8 Fusion yet is NO BETTER? There is 3 tests to prove this, do you have one to disprove it?
Are you like the rest of Pro MVer’s….F the facts, I am only worried about MONEY!!!
Why are you worried about a community, do you not care that you are selling grape juice to your friends and family for outrageous prices, should you not be focused on finding out the TRUTH behind your juice…..or do you really not care?
No one gives a crap about a community, we want facts to answer the questions, NOW, DO YOU HAVE ANY??????